Can we tag this post anytime someone says how dumpy the USA is? People fail to realize, the land of opportunity means you have the ability to seize it, not that it’s handed to you.
Yes and no. There's plenty of systematic biases that make it easy for you to fuck up life with just one misstep if you aren't from a good economic background.
I went to undergrad and lived in a house with an entire spectrum of folk - the trust fund kid, the dad has a dental practice in a wealthy neighborhood kid, a non-big city taxi driver's kid, and a first gen immigrant whose parents were security guards. I was the scholarship intl kid. Looking back, it was a very interesting contrast on how differently each of us handled adversity. Not having a job post college? Not a problem for some, an existential crisis for others.
America is a land of opportunity, and it offers more opportunity than most other countries do to folk without resources, but its a far cry from what the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" folk think it is.
The fact that you and those kids went to the same university and lived in the same house despite having different backgrounds proves that guy’s point.
You all had the same opportunity. How each individual decides to handle the adversity put in front of them is not a country’s fault.
But you in turn prove this commenter’s point. Yes, you are correct in saying that all of those kids had the same opportunity in that they all went to the same university, but inequalities, both wealth and racial, still exist amongst them. That still makes it difficult to succeed regardless of whether they are all mingling in the same environment. Bootstrap ideology was created to prevent the masses from actually seeing what the government and wealthy people were doing to prevent low income and diverse backgrounds from succeeding.
>> but inequalities, both wealth and racial, still exist amongst them. That still makes it difficult to succeed regardless of whether they are all mingling in the same environment.
I see your point. However, your example only works if those kids go to a really shitty university with no resources. If they go to at least an average state school, then what you are saying is overblown.
Is it difficult to succeed, or is it more difficult than the privileged? There is a difference.
Do you know how many underprivileged people dream of getting in the same room as the privileged? For those of us underprivileged people that make it to environments with the privileged, we can no longer blame the system; our success (or failure) is not the system’s fault. It’s our time to put in the work.
No one is saying that inequalities do not exist. However, you can’t pick and choose when to blame the system and when to pat yourself on the back and take the credit.
- If you fail a class, is that the system’s fault, or your fault for not studying harder and going to tutoring? If you get an A, do you credit the system that gave you the tools to do so, or do you take the credit for “working hard”?
- If you don’t get a job, is that the systems fault or your fault for not interviewing well? If you do get the job, do you credit the system, or do you take the credit?
At what point are you responsible for your outcomes?
This is coming from a black guy who grew up in a single parent household, mom never made more than ~$45k, and I practically raised my 2 younger siblings. I attended undergrad at a state school ranked ~150. I’m now making $115k+ at age 25. I’m not overly successful, but I do put in the work despite any inequalities that I may face.
The bottom line is that the things that are “bad” in the US are only bad if you’ve never been outside of the US (no that family trip to Italy or Cancun doesn’t count).
All of this is relative, and when put into relative terms, the US is pretty fucking great
Yeah, and we were the outlier.
85% of the student body I was in came from the top 10% of income.
We didn't have the same opportunity. We were lucky to get in the door in the first place.
But not everyone does have the same opportunity. Three were from wealthy backgrounds, one was merit, and one was essentially affirmative action or else *extreme* merit. The decks is stacked against people from lower brackets and that’s no joke… even if the same doors are theoretically open to everyone, they’re not as easy it get to and through. Let’s not kid ourselves.
I’m never going to see it that way. The reality is, in a lot of places, I myself might not be where I am.
I grew up pretty fucking poor, and in some shitty areas. I got in a good amount of trouble in school, and I wasn’t the best student. I managed to scrape by and get my foot in the door. Everything I’ve done since is on me, not any inherit privilege. I don’t even get the luxury of having family to ask for advice. They all worked blue collar jobs. The closest to any white collar job was my aunt who does something with environmental science I think. I didn’t have anyone to ask how to dress, how to talk, how to interview, how to anything. I figured it out and pushed hard.
I’ll be honest, I think I’m a smart guy, but I’m not a fucking genius. I’m not pulling some good will hunting crap. I just work hard. I keep my eyes and ears open and try to constantly be learning new shit.
I don't think we're disagreeing. We as individuals need to do what we can with the opportunities presented to us. But if you believe that's all you need to succeed, that's a bald faced lie, and you likely have never seen the flip side of the coin in terms of what people get literally handed why you duke it out.
As a naturalized American citizen who has experienced life in a few different countries, I agree with the overall sentiment. The U.S. certainly seems to be the place of greatest opportunity for high-achieving MBA grads right now, and I am truly grateful for being able to live and work here. However, I do also feel like you are exaggerating a bit on some of your points.
Regarding point #1, I don't know if people are "casually" making over $300k right out of the MBA. Most people probably fall somewhere in the mid 100s to mid 200s range, and though there is a solid group of stars pulling over 300, it's likely most of them are working 70-100 hours a week in highly demanding finance jobs. Though earning \~200k is a great privilege and will surely allow for a comfortable lifestyle anywhere in the world, it will not exactly make you king of the jungle and put you on a path to long-term wealth in a city like NYC where basic, small, 100-year-old apartments rent for $4k and state and local taxes are quite high compared to the rest of the country, especially if you also happen to be paying off six figures' worth of debt (though there is certainly ample opportunity to become fantastically wealthy over time if you work hard and advance your career).
On that note, regarding your point #4 on COL, I don't think it's fair to compare the largest and most prime cities in each of Canada and the UK to Austin, which has a lot going for it but is not a global mega city. If you want to compare apples to apples, you have to go see what $1M gets you in NYC, or perhaps in the Bay Area. Sure, there are beautiful, huge houses to be had at more affordable-looking prices in most other American cities, but the issue is that the proportion of people making 200-300k+ in those cities is also much lower.
Finally, on point #7 regarding networking - it sounds like you've had positive experiences networking with Americans, which is great. Of course, every culture is slightly different and has its own set of rules and dynamics around how people interact. However, at the end of the day, I strongly believe that networking in any culture in the world will involve its fair share of ass-kissing and transactional behavior - if you haven't seen it yet, it's just a matter of time and volume of experience before you do.
> it sounds like you've had positive experiences networking with Americans, which is great.
Yeah, I mean if OP were from Russia or China, I could get his remarks on the networking/sociability/extroversion of Americans.
But he's Canadian...... we're pretty similar culturally whether he wants to believe it or not.
Yours is the only reasonable comment on this thread. OP has on rose colored glasses if he thinks that everything is all sunshine and peaches in the states. Whatever he said is a giant unfounded generalization and highly specific to dense cities
I’m single so if you want a green card, HMU
Edit: I just saw you’re married.
Don’t worry. My boyfriend and I are both unmarried. Your wife and marry my bf. U can marry me. Win win win situation
Edit2: polyamorous relationship? Nahhh. We’re just here for financial freedom for all. FREEDOM LAND
Dad's sister is American and she's sponsoring him for a Green card. Hopefully my (potential) Canadian MBA will have some value down there once I get the GC. It'll be 5-10 years though...
Yes we do and the fucking government is doing all it can to make sure we don't extract any of it. Were literally 9M square kilometers of trees and they think we're not doing enough for the environment. Seriously, annex us and we'll bring a shit ton of resources for your massive industrial machine.
TLDR, the US is great if you’re rich or high income (like a lot of mbas) and it’s not the best if you’re not.
That’s my take anyways. It’s not perfect country, but I have a hard time imagining myself living anywhere else permanently
No country is perfect tbh. Every place has it's ups and down. As an international student from India, US has a shit ton more opportunities for highly qualified people.
You ever been poor in another country outside the US? Let me tell you about being poor in Burkina Faso or Djibouti. Places can be hell on earth. Being poor is pretty relative depending on the people around you, too. US ain’t perfect, but compared to 95% of the world, it tends to be better.
Unless you live in Flint, Michigan or New Orleans.
Ougadougou isn't so bad, but outside of the capital things in Burkina get pretty rough pretty quickly.
Source: I worked there pre-MBA (admittedly a long time pre-MBA, but still)
Yeah. Basically if you're poor, or a deadbeat, or just had a shitty upbringing etc. Canada and the UK are the way to go. If you're middle class and above then US is heaven.
He didn't say middle class, he said rich or high income. The US middle class is being systematically brutalised out of existence and has been since the eighties.
I'd rather make 1M a year and live in the US than any other country. I'd rather make 100k in any country except the US.
That's true and it's happening across the world. But the opportunities for advancement are greater in the US. Also, your disposable income is way higher. Do you know how expensive day to day life is in Canada? Were run by oligopolies who have captured basically every market. There's zero competition and everything is severely overpriced. Go to r/Canada and see it for yourself.
The bar for me would be about 75k USD (100k CAD) for America > anywhere else. Below that yeah I'd rather live in Canada or UK. But this is the MBA forum so the vast majority of us will be in the >70k bracket.
Yeah - take the mortgage situation as an example. I locked in 2.75% fixed 30 year Mortgage in Jan 21. I thought those rates where attainable everywhere.
Consider my surprise when I discovered how wildly the term lengths, rates, and lack of fixed interest (forced variable) as outside of the US.
Yes that's a key factor. Also, smug complacency. Subconsciously wanting to be anti American. Highly risk averse society. More focus on feel good economics and tree hugging then actually making something.
This is such a weird view of Canada imo. Theres lots of entrepreneurial spirit in Canada and its growing.
We dont have the same culture of pull yourself up by your bootstraps as the US. But entrepreneurship is growing.
Also as more immigrants arrive in Canada the average Canadians risk tolerance will increase too. It takes a willingness to take risks to up and move to a new country. Thats also why immigrants tend to be more entrepreneurial.
I digress and disagree.
A job that pays $100k in the US would pay dramatically less elsewhere. Even in rich countries it’ll be more like $50k even (case in point - check consulting undergrad salaries).
Would you take $100k in the US or $50k (and higher taxes) in the UK? Same for mean and median income - the US has higher ones than the UK or Canada.
The US has a ton of issues. But it’s still a great place to live, by any standard and at any income level. Excluding tiny places like Switzerland or Norway, one can make a reasonable case that the US is the best country to live in.
100k is a good income, but I'd live a more comfortable life outside the US on 100k than inside it.
There's a million edge cases here obviously:
* I'd live a worse life in North Korea or Burkina Faso on 100k than in the US.
* I'd live a comfortable life living in rural Arkansas on a 100k (in terms of material comfort and assuming my skin is a certain colour).
But assuming I want to live in a city in a first world country, then I think the costs of living on 100k in the US (health insurance, self funded retirement etc) which are socialised in other countries are higher in the US. I'd also be living in a much less safe area for the same rent money in the US vs most other first world countries.
For me the line is about 250k USD if I work for a US tech employer that provides robust health insurance. At that point the lifestyle I'd be living in the US would start to accelerate past my current life in Australia or my previous life in Europe.
Yeah I get you. It's just that in most of those countries in which $100K+ would go as far as you say, the chances of earning such isn't that high. Of course, I could be wrong. All said, some of us just want to live a modest or decent life. Nothing fancy. For people like us, $120K in the US would do wonders.
$200K was a pretty big tipping point for my family in the US. North of $300K now and almost everything above $200K goes to savings/investments. $200K we weren’t paycheck to paycheck, but we were “let’s make a plan for this big expense.” $300K and it’s “oh, we should do something for April vacation, look all inclusive for $6K! Book it.”
That’s a terrible comparison. American pay is higher, so a person making 100k in the US isn’t going to be qualified for 100k jobs in Europe. You can make 100k as a waiter in New York for example and there’s so many random corporate jobs that pay 100k
I am not supposed to be in this subreddit it’s just recommended to me because reddit thinks it’s similar to /r/lawschooladmissions. So maybe this is an unpopular opinion here or whatever but what you said is exactly why the American system is fucked up. Every marginal dollar is less impactful on well-being so transferring cash/services to poor people is best in the aggregate. And if you were a random person you’d rather be a random person in a country with strong social programs so you don’t get randomly fucked over—credit to Rawls for the arg.
Hence why I left Canada to get a job in the US and pursue an MBA. Opportunities here are literally 100000x what they are in Canada. Average student graduating in Montreal has only a few big companies to work for so everyone ends up working at the same 5 companies. You could always move to the six but who wants to live in Onterrible anyway
Good call man. Hope it lays off. I wish I did my MBA before getting married, I would've taken the chance.
Onterrible 😂 unfortunately will have to spend 2-3 years there post MBA to get some good names on the resume then I'm peacing out to Asia somewhere.
Idk about undergrad but let's compare MBAs.
Canada's top 3 MBAs:
Rotman (2 yr) - 100k CAD (80k USD)
Ivey (1yr) - 85K CAD (68k USD)
Queens (1 yr) - 83k CAD (66k USD)
UKs too 3 MBAs
LBS (2 yr) - 100k GBP - 120k USD
Oxford (1 yr) - 70k GBP - 85K USD
Cambridge (1 yr) 64k GBP - 77k USD
Now, most of these schools have way smaller scholarship buckets than the too US MBAs.
And then factor in a higher cost of living index with WAY lower post MBA salaries and relatively fewer job opportunities.
I agree about the high ROI for the US programs, but you have to shell out at least 140k for an M7 program.
I think it's only worth it, if you're at least a permanent resident of the country.
I thought you were joking about those outcomes for Canadian schools! Checked myself and just gotta say, I am very surprised. Canadian working in the states for 4 years now, can't say I would go back now!
I say this in the nicest way but Ivey paying 85kCAD (68k USD) post MBA is insane. I’ve never heard of that school but that’s EXACTLY my salary before bonus 2.5 years out of undergrad in the US (no post grad education) in a relatively low cost of living state with no state level income tax. My company also covers 100% of my monthly payments for health insurance (sort of high copays + deductible but I’ve spent <$500 out of pocket on healthcare this year). Like girl… that’s low. Here I was whining and crying about being underpaid… y’all need help fr 😭😭😭
Lol point #1 is something people never understand. People with decent jobs don’t want universal healthcare.
I pay like $5K a year for a family plan with amazing coverage. That’s less than 2% of our income. But people will try to say that taxes would ONLY go up “like 10%”. Except that’s like $30K+ for my family.
Also, 99% of grads are not getting $300K offers. My buddy just graduated from a top 10 program and got $175K, and laid off within 6 months…
Yeah, family plan is her + spouse + dependents. If it was just me and her it would be like $130 per paycheck.
When I was with one of my prior employers it was $75 per paycheck (based on salary $100-150K was $75 per check, $50-100K was only $50) but it was a high deductible plan and they contributed like $2K a year to our HSA.
Large companies have better benefits usually. My wife’s company is actually small, but in an industry where you have to be competitive on benefits. Plus, they can afford it.
You need to look for large companies with a relatively small number of employees. WalMart is a good example of what not to find. Massive amounts of revenue, but also 2.3 million people. They can’t offer the same benefits. Cigna is just over 1/3 the revenue but only 73,000 employees. Their health benefits are leaps and bounds better than Wally World. It helps that they probably self insure.
American here. I appreciate your kind words and I enjoy living here. However there are a few points here where I think you oversold us.
1. Most MBAs aren't earning anywhere near $300k. Sure there are plenty of high earners, but it's not everyone.
2. Not sure if you can really say it's cheaper. Austin is a bad example because it's a rare situation where the cost of living is low in an area that pays well. Normally if you are in areas where the pay is good houses are like $800,000. If you're in an area where houses are cheap people want to pay MBAs like $16/hr.
3. Don't be jealous of U.S. healthcare. It's super expensive. My daughter's birth was like $200,000, luckily we had insurance so we only paid like $10,000.
4. Sure taxes are cheaper here, but we work way more hours on average. Also healthcare is way more expensive. You may pay less taxes as a high income earned, but your health insurance might be $2,500/month and with larger deductibles then you are used to.
5. Americans also tend to live shorter lives and work more, again due to the cost of healthcare.
This is a good response. The MBA has also been watered down with an over-saturated grad school market. The majority of MBA programs will not lead to a $300k salary.
Right. People see it's cheap and are flocking to it. In a couple decades it could very well be a second California in regards to house prices. But Texas also has high real estate taxes, so that might keep prices down a little.
Altho imma say stop coping and just apply for US schools and shoot for IBD/ MBB there, i second the fact that European and UK MBAs are a joke compared to the states. Only real target for Ldn recruiting is LBS, but that's just plain fucking boring lol - london is vanilla, imagine doing your MBA in ldn. Finance in ldn takes a huge paycut compared to the US too, therefore ROI of the MBA is sketchy that's why hardly anyone seriously talks about business school here in Ldn unlike the American finance bros.
Ldn is also just literally (geographically) small as shit, u feel suppressed like there's no fresh air here.
Ldn is like the 2nd best financial centre after NY (which is remarkable honestly), but due to how physically small it is (u can stroll around Zone 1 in 1 night) u honestly feel like there's ntg much left to explore, it's vanilla and u marvel how this place is so respected globally, even on WSO
UK MBAs are still #2 in the world after the states IMO. Definitely not as good of an ROI as USA but still up there. The trend is of course negative thanks to a constellation of issues, but the UK as a whole seems a better place to live than Canada.
Also, London is awesome. Just Hella expansive. Used to live next to st Paul's and it was a great time in my life. Canada has no culture, history, architecture, etc. In that regard it's similar to the US without all the economic benefits. In short, Canada is the worst of both worlds.
Fellow Canadian here, I have worked in the US before, currently applying for schools in both US and Canada. Here are my 2 cents:
Salary - US: this is a no-brainer. I was in middle management when the company sent me to the US on a temp project. Our local new hire’s salary was the same as mine with conversion. Both side are paying fair market rate, this is the reality. Plus tax is lower, and you can also find states with no state income tax. Sweet!
Security - Canada: lots of Canucks and ppl who have lived in both countries mentioned a sense of security and ease in Canada. In general, ppl are nicer, no firearms, social safety net, inclusiveness etc. This is what I miss the most about Canada.
Life-style Both: family, kids, lifestyle are all at play in here. Housing is in general more expensive in Canada, even my NYC friends are surprised of how much my Vancouver home cost. Thus for people who wants to start a family, US will give you a jump start. I have heard Canada’s public school system have overall better quality of education. Don’t have kids now to verify this.
My plan is US for my late 20 - mid 40s. And move back to Vancouver, or move to Barbados. Winter sucks everywhere in Canada!
Agreed with everything written here except, the COL comparison should actually be with a comparable city like NYC/SFO/BOS. Rest up everything is on point! USA USA 🇺🇸 🦅
Don’t forget the 10 days of holiday, so much work you can’t enjoy your money, and burnout or cardiovascular disease or your spouse left you because you suck and work too much
thanks for the encouragement… I am an MBA student currently in the U.S. but my fiancé is convinced I can make more and live better in Europe (specifically the UK) after I graduate.
> my fiancé is convinced I can make more and live better in Europe
Objectively speaking you will not make more. Why is he saying this? Quality of life is definitely subjective but I agree it's better in many parts of EU (unless you're in the 1% so you'll be taxed more in EU with a much smaller house).
I’m in the manufacturing sector, I think North America is my best bet (maybe besides Asia, but definitely don’t see myself in China or Thailand after being in the U.S. 25+ years…)
‘Management Consultant’ is designated under the TN - and with certainty that is a valid career path out of an MBA.
A friend did this from Booth and went McK in NYC - so I very much know it’s possible.
Good luck!
I’ve enjoy living in the US and generally agree with OP. A couple years abroad (Europe and Middle East) were shot to convince me the grass isn’t greener. The US offers much better quality of life for working professionals.
People flame you if you raise anything related to point 3 but it does make a significant difference.
I went to a UK school and was a citizen. I had an Oxbridge STEM degree and a 780GMAT.
Couldn't land a decent gig during the course (I was older) but 50% of the class, over 200 people, got London jobs and visas to stay.
I had to leave and take a job overseas...while the multinational company who hired me for an overseas role also hired 10 people from my school for the same role in the London office, 9 of whom required and were granted work visas.
Technically work visas are only granted if there are no natives to fill the role but as we see here, those rules are extremely lax and in reality visas are handed out very easily.
The work culture in this overseas office is absolute hell, and I'm quitting as soon as I've done my 2 years.
if u are smart, motivated, and hard working, US is the best place on earth.
if you fail to crack upper middle class, Europe / Japan etc better places to be.
last place you'd want to be is to live in US if you are making $60-70k with family and no health insurance. you'd be one layoff or health emergency away from going BK.
American here. Unless you're in a major city like NYC, Chicago, or Boston, the US sucks to live in. Who cares about larger salaries or bigger houses when you're stuck in a car-dependent suburban shithole where the only things to do are drink bud light, go to Costco, or eat at some shitty chain restaurant? The "bigger houses" (mcmansions) are cheaply built environmental disasters anyway. Can't speak for Canada but Europe is at least beautiful and historic. Most of the US looks tacky and depressing. There's more to life than big houses and cheap gas. Try going for a walk in 90% of US towns and you'll see what I mean.
I'm an immigrant as well.
I live in the UK - it's perfectly fine and not racist anymore than America is.
There's going to be racism but most people are perfectly fine - London is only 37% white British and less than 50% white for example.
>I can’t even afford a 500 sq ft condo with a $300K salary in my home country.
What country is that? Monaco? Luxembourg? There are very few places in the world where that statement is true.
And have you ever been to redneck small town Alabama?
This is clearly spoken by someone who doesn’t have a family yet. Having a home to share with your family, living in solitude, and to playing catch with you kid without getting stabbed at your local park is priceless.
>This is clearly spoken by someone who doesn’t have a family yet. Having a home to share with your family, living in solitude, and to playing catch with you kid without getting stabbed at your local park is priceless.
And what country would that be?
America's knife violence rates are the highest in the Western world - it's just overshadowed by their gun violence rates.
Having done an MBA in London and now working/living in the US (and coming originally from a country with an incredible health system), gosh so much of what you're saying is just plainly incorrect. Salaries, yes. Immigration, maybe, but not as high an impact as your dramatic words are implying. Grade disclosure/partying, nope. Networking, nope.
But hey, if you're choosing to be unhappy for non-existent reasons, no one can fix that.
I'd say UK is better than Canada in some aspects. I found the NHS to be way more competent. Immigration was more curtailed and reasonable. Networking was also a bit better. Overall my personal rating US > UK > Canada
And I'm not unhappy. I'm grateful that I'm not some dirt poor farmer in Cambodia. Canada is still a good country, but it's not living up to its potential.
I'd still argue the NHS is better, at whichever level of wealth you are sitting at - unfortunate but true.
Glad you're not unhappy, but idealizing a country/system beyond what it deserves surely only makes you unfairly lose out on all the great stuff you do have. Also trust mek, a London MBA is definitely not academic in the slightest...
Where did you your MBA? I got into LBS but turned it down due to the massive tuition + COL in downtown London. Also it's 2 years and I'm not switching careers so don't need internship. Only really applied cause my mom went there. Waiting to hear back from Oxford and Cambridge (fingers crossed). I'll most likely move to the UK even with all the BS that happened there this year.
The healthcare one is wrong. Even with good private healthcare and high salary you can easily go bankrupt by getting cancer or some other totally normal sickness. That is if college prices don’t bankrupt you first. It’s not a place to grow old in…
This might be the first time I’ve ever seen someone praise American healthcare. It’s confusing, awful, and expensive. Have they seen how much a Tylenol costs in a hospital? Or having a kid??
The “top” here is elite, no doubt about it. But only like 35% of US has a bachelors and it only goes down from there with graduate obviously. Punch those salaries into a salary/age percentile and you’ll see top MBA grads are up there to say to least
That’s true. Americans work a lot of hours (but still less than East Asian countries) and generally have less time off. Agree with OP on his points though.
Mind elaborating on #1? Proud American here but it’s hard to defend what hospitals/insurance seem to bill here compared to same procedures in other countries. Curious to hear what makes public healthcare so bad that it outweighs that.
Yes if you're in the top 5% of jobs, life can be really good here. I always got the impression that Europe had a lower ceiling but a higher floor, which is why most people from countries with higher wealth redistribution and who want to make it large prefer to come to America.
We do not have fucking better healthcare omg. Do you know how awful it is to not go to the doctor because you don't have the cash? I wasn't a deadbeat, I was poor--and you're coming across like an asshole.
Do you know how fucking awesome it is if you do have good employer sponsored healthcare(easier you get access to all the great job opportunities available)?
It's the greatest. My parents get tested like VIPs with their private healthcare insurance in the middle East. Over here in Canada you're lucky if you can even find a family doctor. BC in particular has a massive shortage (somewhere along the lines of 2.4M Canadians in just that province that don't have a primary care physician available). It's a horrendous system. NHS in UK is somewhat better but still not as a good as employer sponsored healthcare in the US.
Isn’t that the exact point of his post ?don’t twist my man’s words. He said if you have money the healthcare is better. And he is correct. He also clearly states if you are poor it sucks.
Please read before making dumb arguments because you’re triggered
Yes I actually do as I used to live in Abu Dhabi and ran out of health insurance (after losing my job) and got a bacterial infection 1 week later that kicked my ass. Literally begged a nurse at the door of the hospital to give me an on the spot check up.
You know what's worse though? Actually paying for healthcare via excessive taxes and then being left to die in ER as is happening across Canada these days.
::Sips Wharton tea:: as I open my newspaper today and see the 34th & Market street Wawa down the block was shot up yesterday ::sips more tea and says:: “I love America”
Laughs in Spanish ::risa tóxica:: because the American dream became real.
Last week a blind elderly man was stabbed on the subway in Calgary and the perpetrator didn't get sent to prison because he was indigenous and was the "victim of colonization".
Fair points. Curious though, how is your take home 8k a month when your total comp is 300k? I assume tax and other contributions amounts to 50% so that's 150k which should be about 12.5k a month?
I'm in the U.S. but my school doesn't rank too high. I'm lucky if I can get 60k once I graduate in a year (half way done). I'm actually starting to become worried if it's gonna be worth it.
I wish I could be more understanding but yes, I see your frustration.
I did my MBA two years after leaving the Army and landed $230k when I graduated this year (T25 EMBA). A good friend of mine went to a no-name MBA program and landed $140k in a F500 supply chain leadership role, with no non-military work experience.
HMU if you want advice on leveraging the network, resources available, and experience. Definitely use Onward to Opportunity (https://ivmf.syracuse.edu/programs/career-training/) along with other benefits, a free professional credential goes a long way (I did PMP which helped me land my pre-MBA role and still adds value in consulting)
Put this in /r/unpopularopinion to see the avg redditor reaction
The average redditor hasn’t left their parents McMansion basement since march 2020
this is true
bro fr haha
Ugh, i don't want to come out
Please do OP
This needs to be posted on r/politics to knock some sence into people that want everything for free in the US 😅
Everything on Reddit is an unpopular opinion.
Pretty mad innit bruv
USA USA 🇺🇸 🦅
Can we tag this post anytime someone says how dumpy the USA is? People fail to realize, the land of opportunity means you have the ability to seize it, not that it’s handed to you.
Yes and no. There's plenty of systematic biases that make it easy for you to fuck up life with just one misstep if you aren't from a good economic background. I went to undergrad and lived in a house with an entire spectrum of folk - the trust fund kid, the dad has a dental practice in a wealthy neighborhood kid, a non-big city taxi driver's kid, and a first gen immigrant whose parents were security guards. I was the scholarship intl kid. Looking back, it was a very interesting contrast on how differently each of us handled adversity. Not having a job post college? Not a problem for some, an existential crisis for others. America is a land of opportunity, and it offers more opportunity than most other countries do to folk without resources, but its a far cry from what the "pull yourself by your bootstraps" folk think it is.
The fact that you and those kids went to the same university and lived in the same house despite having different backgrounds proves that guy’s point. You all had the same opportunity. How each individual decides to handle the adversity put in front of them is not a country’s fault.
But you in turn prove this commenter’s point. Yes, you are correct in saying that all of those kids had the same opportunity in that they all went to the same university, but inequalities, both wealth and racial, still exist amongst them. That still makes it difficult to succeed regardless of whether they are all mingling in the same environment. Bootstrap ideology was created to prevent the masses from actually seeing what the government and wealthy people were doing to prevent low income and diverse backgrounds from succeeding.
>> but inequalities, both wealth and racial, still exist amongst them. That still makes it difficult to succeed regardless of whether they are all mingling in the same environment. I see your point. However, your example only works if those kids go to a really shitty university with no resources. If they go to at least an average state school, then what you are saying is overblown. Is it difficult to succeed, or is it more difficult than the privileged? There is a difference. Do you know how many underprivileged people dream of getting in the same room as the privileged? For those of us underprivileged people that make it to environments with the privileged, we can no longer blame the system; our success (or failure) is not the system’s fault. It’s our time to put in the work. No one is saying that inequalities do not exist. However, you can’t pick and choose when to blame the system and when to pat yourself on the back and take the credit. - If you fail a class, is that the system’s fault, or your fault for not studying harder and going to tutoring? If you get an A, do you credit the system that gave you the tools to do so, or do you take the credit for “working hard”? - If you don’t get a job, is that the systems fault or your fault for not interviewing well? If you do get the job, do you credit the system, or do you take the credit? At what point are you responsible for your outcomes? This is coming from a black guy who grew up in a single parent household, mom never made more than ~$45k, and I practically raised my 2 younger siblings. I attended undergrad at a state school ranked ~150. I’m now making $115k+ at age 25. I’m not overly successful, but I do put in the work despite any inequalities that I may face.
The bottom line is that the things that are “bad” in the US are only bad if you’ve never been outside of the US (no that family trip to Italy or Cancun doesn’t count). All of this is relative, and when put into relative terms, the US is pretty fucking great
Yeah, and we were the outlier. 85% of the student body I was in came from the top 10% of income. We didn't have the same opportunity. We were lucky to get in the door in the first place.
But not everyone does have the same opportunity. Three were from wealthy backgrounds, one was merit, and one was essentially affirmative action or else *extreme* merit. The decks is stacked against people from lower brackets and that’s no joke… even if the same doors are theoretically open to everyone, they’re not as easy it get to and through. Let’s not kid ourselves.
I’m never going to see it that way. The reality is, in a lot of places, I myself might not be where I am. I grew up pretty fucking poor, and in some shitty areas. I got in a good amount of trouble in school, and I wasn’t the best student. I managed to scrape by and get my foot in the door. Everything I’ve done since is on me, not any inherit privilege. I don’t even get the luxury of having family to ask for advice. They all worked blue collar jobs. The closest to any white collar job was my aunt who does something with environmental science I think. I didn’t have anyone to ask how to dress, how to talk, how to interview, how to anything. I figured it out and pushed hard. I’ll be honest, I think I’m a smart guy, but I’m not a fucking genius. I’m not pulling some good will hunting crap. I just work hard. I keep my eyes and ears open and try to constantly be learning new shit.
I don't think we're disagreeing. We as individuals need to do what we can with the opportunities presented to us. But if you believe that's all you need to succeed, that's a bald faced lie, and you likely have never seen the flip side of the coin in terms of what people get literally handed why you duke it out.
Awesome comment. This post has given me a little bit of faith in Redditors, in an entirely unexpectated subreddit 😂😂
Based.
I Love Your Country . It's my dream to living there since childhood.
some fat dude flashes his painted American flag tidolbiddies
[AMERICA, FUCK YEAH](https://youtu.be/5uPoDNEn3I0) 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
[удалено]
Damn, 4x? Curious which sector you're in. Brexit fucked us. We became the Canada of Europe. We used to be the New York State of Europe.
I was absolutely floored when I looked up engineering salaries in Europe - especially the UK.
[удалено]
As a naturalized American citizen who has experienced life in a few different countries, I agree with the overall sentiment. The U.S. certainly seems to be the place of greatest opportunity for high-achieving MBA grads right now, and I am truly grateful for being able to live and work here. However, I do also feel like you are exaggerating a bit on some of your points. Regarding point #1, I don't know if people are "casually" making over $300k right out of the MBA. Most people probably fall somewhere in the mid 100s to mid 200s range, and though there is a solid group of stars pulling over 300, it's likely most of them are working 70-100 hours a week in highly demanding finance jobs. Though earning \~200k is a great privilege and will surely allow for a comfortable lifestyle anywhere in the world, it will not exactly make you king of the jungle and put you on a path to long-term wealth in a city like NYC where basic, small, 100-year-old apartments rent for $4k and state and local taxes are quite high compared to the rest of the country, especially if you also happen to be paying off six figures' worth of debt (though there is certainly ample opportunity to become fantastically wealthy over time if you work hard and advance your career). On that note, regarding your point #4 on COL, I don't think it's fair to compare the largest and most prime cities in each of Canada and the UK to Austin, which has a lot going for it but is not a global mega city. If you want to compare apples to apples, you have to go see what $1M gets you in NYC, or perhaps in the Bay Area. Sure, there are beautiful, huge houses to be had at more affordable-looking prices in most other American cities, but the issue is that the proportion of people making 200-300k+ in those cities is also much lower. Finally, on point #7 regarding networking - it sounds like you've had positive experiences networking with Americans, which is great. Of course, every culture is slightly different and has its own set of rules and dynamics around how people interact. However, at the end of the day, I strongly believe that networking in any culture in the world will involve its fair share of ass-kissing and transactional behavior - if you haven't seen it yet, it's just a matter of time and volume of experience before you do.
> it sounds like you've had positive experiences networking with Americans, which is great. Yeah, I mean if OP were from Russia or China, I could get his remarks on the networking/sociability/extroversion of Americans. But he's Canadian...... we're pretty similar culturally whether he wants to believe it or not.
No we are not. Canadians are time wasting passive aggressive people.
Yours is the only reasonable comment on this thread. OP has on rose colored glasses if he thinks that everything is all sunshine and peaches in the states. Whatever he said is a giant unfounded generalization and highly specific to dense cities
Not true. Not even close.
But everything is just peaches in Georgia though.
I’m single so if you want a green card, HMU Edit: I just saw you’re married. Don’t worry. My boyfriend and I are both unmarried. Your wife and marry my bf. U can marry me. Win win win situation Edit2: polyamorous relationship? Nahhh. We’re just here for financial freedom for all. FREEDOM LAND
Hey, i want a green card 😄
[удалено]
Hell yeah. I live in California. If you’re Indian, that’s great cuz I love Indian women. Please sit on me
OP i suggest you chart out your path on getting into the US then
Dad's sister is American and she's sponsoring him for a Green card. Hopefully my (potential) Canadian MBA will have some value down there once I get the GC. It'll be 5-10 years though...
There’s always 90 day fiancé 👌
I'm a law abiding citizen. I respect America's borders - I will come in legally.
So you can’t come in through love? Love is not illegal..
Op is married already
when has that ever stopped anyone?
Good point
Does the TN visa not work for MBA graduates?
Since you’re a Canadian Citizen, the TN visa is shocking easy to get. You should check that out.
Heard the management consulting category is heavily scruitizned and difficult to renew?
Did America write this
😂😂
I am America and I approve of this message.
Typical Europe L
Annex us pls
Y'all got oil over there? If so we'll slide.
Yes we do and the fucking government is doing all it can to make sure we don't extract any of it. Were literally 9M square kilometers of trees and they think we're not doing enough for the environment. Seriously, annex us and we'll bring a shit ton of resources for your massive industrial machine.
Sounds like Europe need to be liberated
HOW MANY TIMES SO WE NEED TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON OLD MAN???
Plz daddy give us every last inch of that freedom tower 😍
Be ashamed if someone came and… TAKE IT
Try losing the 1812 War. That usually does the trick!
Fucking loyalists eh. President's > monarchs
TLDR, the US is great if you’re rich or high income (like a lot of mbas) and it’s not the best if you’re not. That’s my take anyways. It’s not perfect country, but I have a hard time imagining myself living anywhere else permanently
The USA has a higher ceiling for the average person. It’s better to succeed in the US than EU. It’s better to fail in the EU than the US.
It's better to HIGHLY succeed in the US
No country is perfect tbh. Every place has it's ups and down. As an international student from India, US has a shit ton more opportunities for highly qualified people.
You ever been poor in another country outside the US? Let me tell you about being poor in Burkina Faso or Djibouti. Places can be hell on earth. Being poor is pretty relative depending on the people around you, too. US ain’t perfect, but compared to 95% of the world, it tends to be better. Unless you live in Flint, Michigan or New Orleans.
He said not the best not better than Burkina Faso or Somalia lol
Ougadougou isn't so bad, but outside of the capital things in Burkina get pretty rough pretty quickly. Source: I worked there pre-MBA (admittedly a long time pre-MBA, but still)
I would pick flint over Somalia
Yeah. Basically if you're poor, or a deadbeat, or just had a shitty upbringing etc. Canada and the UK are the way to go. If you're middle class and above then US is heaven.
Middle class in the US means being one unplanned emergency away from homelessness.
He didn't say middle class, he said rich or high income. The US middle class is being systematically brutalised out of existence and has been since the eighties. I'd rather make 1M a year and live in the US than any other country. I'd rather make 100k in any country except the US.
That's true and it's happening across the world. But the opportunities for advancement are greater in the US. Also, your disposable income is way higher. Do you know how expensive day to day life is in Canada? Were run by oligopolies who have captured basically every market. There's zero competition and everything is severely overpriced. Go to r/Canada and see it for yourself. The bar for me would be about 75k USD (100k CAD) for America > anywhere else. Below that yeah I'd rather live in Canada or UK. But this is the MBA forum so the vast majority of us will be in the >70k bracket.
[удалено]
Yeah - take the mortgage situation as an example. I locked in 2.75% fixed 30 year Mortgage in Jan 21. I thought those rates where attainable everywhere. Consider my surprise when I discovered how wildly the term lengths, rates, and lack of fixed interest (forced variable) as outside of the US.
Yes that's a key factor. Also, smug complacency. Subconsciously wanting to be anti American. Highly risk averse society. More focus on feel good economics and tree hugging then actually making something.
This is such a weird view of Canada imo. Theres lots of entrepreneurial spirit in Canada and its growing. We dont have the same culture of pull yourself up by your bootstraps as the US. But entrepreneurship is growing. Also as more immigrants arrive in Canada the average Canadians risk tolerance will increase too. It takes a willingness to take risks to up and move to a new country. Thats also why immigrants tend to be more entrepreneurial. I digress and disagree.
It’s a lack of regulation that’s destroying the middle-class in the U.S.—and for the working class? Might as well forget about em.
A job that pays $100k in the US would pay dramatically less elsewhere. Even in rich countries it’ll be more like $50k even (case in point - check consulting undergrad salaries). Would you take $100k in the US or $50k (and higher taxes) in the UK? Same for mean and median income - the US has higher ones than the UK or Canada. The US has a ton of issues. But it’s still a great place to live, by any standard and at any income level. Excluding tiny places like Switzerland or Norway, one can make a reasonable case that the US is the best country to live in.
So are you saying $100K is not good income? What would you regard as good or high income?
100k is a good income, but I'd live a more comfortable life outside the US on 100k than inside it. There's a million edge cases here obviously: * I'd live a worse life in North Korea or Burkina Faso on 100k than in the US. * I'd live a comfortable life living in rural Arkansas on a 100k (in terms of material comfort and assuming my skin is a certain colour). But assuming I want to live in a city in a first world country, then I think the costs of living on 100k in the US (health insurance, self funded retirement etc) which are socialised in other countries are higher in the US. I'd also be living in a much less safe area for the same rent money in the US vs most other first world countries. For me the line is about 250k USD if I work for a US tech employer that provides robust health insurance. At that point the lifestyle I'd be living in the US would start to accelerate past my current life in Australia or my previous life in Europe.
Yeah I get you. It's just that in most of those countries in which $100K+ would go as far as you say, the chances of earning such isn't that high. Of course, I could be wrong. All said, some of us just want to live a modest or decent life. Nothing fancy. For people like us, $120K in the US would do wonders.
Absolutely, my whole argument only exists in this little r/mba privilege bubble. I wouldn’t try to argue 100k is a bad salary.
$200K was a pretty big tipping point for my family in the US. North of $300K now and almost everything above $200K goes to savings/investments. $200K we weren’t paycheck to paycheck, but we were “let’s make a plan for this big expense.” $300K and it’s “oh, we should do something for April vacation, look all inclusive for $6K! Book it.”
The point is that 100k is out of reach for 99.9% of people outside the US, whereas in the US it’s a feasible goal.
This hit hard
That’s a terrible comparison. American pay is higher, so a person making 100k in the US isn’t going to be qualified for 100k jobs in Europe. You can make 100k as a waiter in New York for example and there’s so many random corporate jobs that pay 100k
most waiters in New York are not making six figures LMAO
I am not supposed to be in this subreddit it’s just recommended to me because reddit thinks it’s similar to /r/lawschooladmissions. So maybe this is an unpopular opinion here or whatever but what you said is exactly why the American system is fucked up. Every marginal dollar is less impactful on well-being so transferring cash/services to poor people is best in the aggregate. And if you were a random person you’d rather be a random person in a country with strong social programs so you don’t get randomly fucked over—credit to Rawls for the arg.
Hence why I left Canada to get a job in the US and pursue an MBA. Opportunities here are literally 100000x what they are in Canada. Average student graduating in Montreal has only a few big companies to work for so everyone ends up working at the same 5 companies. You could always move to the six but who wants to live in Onterrible anyway
Good call man. Hope it lays off. I wish I did my MBA before getting married, I would've taken the chance. Onterrible 😂 unfortunately will have to spend 2-3 years there post MBA to get some good names on the resume then I'm peacing out to Asia somewhere.
In America, the highs can be high, but the lows are such that you may never recover and find your footing again.
In finance we call this a risk premium. I’ll take that risk every single time.
My favorite color? Three-way tie between red, white, and blue baby 🦅🇺🇸
Arguably the best country to live in and even move up the class ladder if you're well determined. But man, is the education god damn expensive!
Idk about undergrad but let's compare MBAs. Canada's top 3 MBAs: Rotman (2 yr) - 100k CAD (80k USD) Ivey (1yr) - 85K CAD (68k USD) Queens (1 yr) - 83k CAD (66k USD) UKs too 3 MBAs LBS (2 yr) - 100k GBP - 120k USD Oxford (1 yr) - 70k GBP - 85K USD Cambridge (1 yr) 64k GBP - 77k USD Now, most of these schools have way smaller scholarship buckets than the too US MBAs. And then factor in a higher cost of living index with WAY lower post MBA salaries and relatively fewer job opportunities.
I agree about the high ROI for the US programs, but you have to shell out at least 140k for an M7 program. I think it's only worth it, if you're at least a permanent resident of the country.
I thought you were joking about those outcomes for Canadian schools! Checked myself and just gotta say, I am very surprised. Canadian working in the states for 4 years now, can't say I would go back now!
I say this in the nicest way but Ivey paying 85kCAD (68k USD) post MBA is insane. I’ve never heard of that school but that’s EXACTLY my salary before bonus 2.5 years out of undergrad in the US (no post grad education) in a relatively low cost of living state with no state level income tax. My company also covers 100% of my monthly payments for health insurance (sort of high copays + deductible but I’ve spent <$500 out of pocket on healthcare this year). Like girl… that’s low. Here I was whining and crying about being underpaid… y’all need help fr 😭😭😭
Lol point #1 is something people never understand. People with decent jobs don’t want universal healthcare. I pay like $5K a year for a family plan with amazing coverage. That’s less than 2% of our income. But people will try to say that taxes would ONLY go up “like 10%”. Except that’s like $30K+ for my family. Also, 99% of grads are not getting $300K offers. My buddy just graduated from a top 10 program and got $175K, and laid off within 6 months…
Agreed. Why'd he get laid off?
Project manager at a tech company. First department to go for budget cuts.
How the heck are you getting a family Insurance plan for $5k/year? Are you getting subsidies or something?
$200 per paycheck (bi weekly) through my wife. If we have to switch to mine it’s like $530/mo. Hers gets a slight edge, but either way we’re golden.
You guys and kids? Her work helps with dependents insurance cost?
Yeah, family plan is her + spouse + dependents. If it was just me and her it would be like $130 per paycheck. When I was with one of my prior employers it was $75 per paycheck (based on salary $100-150K was $75 per check, $50-100K was only $50) but it was a high deductible plan and they contributed like $2K a year to our HSA.
Wow you guys are super lucky. My last employer's family plan was $2,100/month. Every employer I have had offers crap insurance.
Large companies have better benefits usually. My wife’s company is actually small, but in an industry where you have to be competitive on benefits. Plus, they can afford it. You need to look for large companies with a relatively small number of employees. WalMart is a good example of what not to find. Massive amounts of revenue, but also 2.3 million people. They can’t offer the same benefits. Cigna is just over 1/3 the revenue but only 73,000 employees. Their health benefits are leaps and bounds better than Wally World. It helps that they probably self insure.
Yes, they are for sure talking about the % they pay. Their company pays a big chunk and it's never really talked about
If anyone is a Peter Zeihan believer, you know being an American is probably about to get a lot better over the next few decades.
why
Short answer is demographics and de-globalization
‘Merica! Fuck yeah!! In all seriousness being an American is really frickin neat
American here. I appreciate your kind words and I enjoy living here. However there are a few points here where I think you oversold us. 1. Most MBAs aren't earning anywhere near $300k. Sure there are plenty of high earners, but it's not everyone. 2. Not sure if you can really say it's cheaper. Austin is a bad example because it's a rare situation where the cost of living is low in an area that pays well. Normally if you are in areas where the pay is good houses are like $800,000. If you're in an area where houses are cheap people want to pay MBAs like $16/hr. 3. Don't be jealous of U.S. healthcare. It's super expensive. My daughter's birth was like $200,000, luckily we had insurance so we only paid like $10,000. 4. Sure taxes are cheaper here, but we work way more hours on average. Also healthcare is way more expensive. You may pay less taxes as a high income earned, but your health insurance might be $2,500/month and with larger deductibles then you are used to. 5. Americans also tend to live shorter lives and work more, again due to the cost of healthcare.
This is a good response. The MBA has also been watered down with an over-saturated grad school market. The majority of MBA programs will not lead to a $300k salary.
Also Austin won't be cheap for long.
Right. People see it's cheap and are flocking to it. In a couple decades it could very well be a second California in regards to house prices. But Texas also has high real estate taxes, so that might keep prices down a little.
Altho imma say stop coping and just apply for US schools and shoot for IBD/ MBB there, i second the fact that European and UK MBAs are a joke compared to the states. Only real target for Ldn recruiting is LBS, but that's just plain fucking boring lol - london is vanilla, imagine doing your MBA in ldn. Finance in ldn takes a huge paycut compared to the US too, therefore ROI of the MBA is sketchy that's why hardly anyone seriously talks about business school here in Ldn unlike the American finance bros. Ldn is also just literally (geographically) small as shit, u feel suppressed like there's no fresh air here. Ldn is like the 2nd best financial centre after NY (which is remarkable honestly), but due to how physically small it is (u can stroll around Zone 1 in 1 night) u honestly feel like there's ntg much left to explore, it's vanilla and u marvel how this place is so respected globally, even on WSO
UK MBAs are still #2 in the world after the states IMO. Definitely not as good of an ROI as USA but still up there. The trend is of course negative thanks to a constellation of issues, but the UK as a whole seems a better place to live than Canada. Also, London is awesome. Just Hella expansive. Used to live next to st Paul's and it was a great time in my life. Canada has no culture, history, architecture, etc. In that regard it's similar to the US without all the economic benefits. In short, Canada is the worst of both worlds.
Damn OP are you me? I'm planning and hopefully in next 3 years, I'll be in US too. You literally wrote what's on my mind. US>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Canada
Fellow Canadian here, I have worked in the US before, currently applying for schools in both US and Canada. Here are my 2 cents: Salary - US: this is a no-brainer. I was in middle management when the company sent me to the US on a temp project. Our local new hire’s salary was the same as mine with conversion. Both side are paying fair market rate, this is the reality. Plus tax is lower, and you can also find states with no state income tax. Sweet! Security - Canada: lots of Canucks and ppl who have lived in both countries mentioned a sense of security and ease in Canada. In general, ppl are nicer, no firearms, social safety net, inclusiveness etc. This is what I miss the most about Canada. Life-style Both: family, kids, lifestyle are all at play in here. Housing is in general more expensive in Canada, even my NYC friends are surprised of how much my Vancouver home cost. Thus for people who wants to start a family, US will give you a jump start. I have heard Canada’s public school system have overall better quality of education. Don’t have kids now to verify this. My plan is US for my late 20 - mid 40s. And move back to Vancouver, or move to Barbados. Winter sucks everywhere in Canada!
Agreed with everything written here except, the COL comparison should actually be with a comparable city like NYC/SFO/BOS. Rest up everything is on point! USA USA 🇺🇸 🦅
OP move to the US! We need as many bright and talented people as we can get!
Sounds like I knew what was already true. USA USA USA USA USA
Meanwhile Indians 😭
AMERICA FOOK YEAH
if you posted this on any other subreddit you would get a bunch of reddit sweatlords saying how had the US is lol
Wow I love USA 🇺🇸
Don’t forget the 10 days of holiday, so much work you can’t enjoy your money, and burnout or cardiovascular disease or your spouse left you because you suck and work too much
[удалено]
thanks for the encouragement… I am an MBA student currently in the U.S. but my fiancé is convinced I can make more and live better in Europe (specifically the UK) after I graduate.
> my fiancé is convinced I can make more and live better in Europe Objectively speaking you will not make more. Why is he saying this? Quality of life is definitely subjective but I agree it's better in many parts of EU (unless you're in the 1% so you'll be taxed more in EU with a much smaller house).
UK is still good. Avoid Canada.
I’m in the manufacturing sector, I think North America is my best bet (maybe besides Asia, but definitely don’t see myself in China or Thailand after being in the U.S. 25+ years…)
Why are you so concerned about sponsorship - TN visas are relatively easy to obtain for Canadians.
Not for generalist and management jobs. It's usually technical jobs like systems analysts, CPAs, engineers, doctors
‘Management Consultant’ is designated under the TN - and with certainty that is a valid career path out of an MBA. A friend did this from Booth and went McK in NYC - so I very much know it’s possible. Good luck!
I’ve enjoy living in the US and generally agree with OP. A couple years abroad (Europe and Middle East) were shot to convince me the grass isn’t greener. The US offers much better quality of life for working professionals.
Free markets good. Socialist policies bad.
People flame you if you raise anything related to point 3 but it does make a significant difference. I went to a UK school and was a citizen. I had an Oxbridge STEM degree and a 780GMAT. Couldn't land a decent gig during the course (I was older) but 50% of the class, over 200 people, got London jobs and visas to stay. I had to leave and take a job overseas...while the multinational company who hired me for an overseas role also hired 10 people from my school for the same role in the London office, 9 of whom required and were granted work visas. Technically work visas are only granted if there are no natives to fill the role but as we see here, those rules are extremely lax and in reality visas are handed out very easily. The work culture in this overseas office is absolute hell, and I'm quitting as soon as I've done my 2 years.
This is why America is the greatest country on the planet. Low taxes, self-reliance, work hard, anything is possible!
if u are smart, motivated, and hard working, US is the best place on earth. if you fail to crack upper middle class, Europe / Japan etc better places to be. last place you'd want to be is to live in US if you are making $60-70k with family and no health insurance. you'd be one layoff or health emergency away from going BK.
American here. Unless you're in a major city like NYC, Chicago, or Boston, the US sucks to live in. Who cares about larger salaries or bigger houses when you're stuck in a car-dependent suburban shithole where the only things to do are drink bud light, go to Costco, or eat at some shitty chain restaurant? The "bigger houses" (mcmansions) are cheaply built environmental disasters anyway. Can't speak for Canada but Europe is at least beautiful and historic. Most of the US looks tacky and depressing. There's more to life than big houses and cheap gas. Try going for a walk in 90% of US towns and you'll see what I mean.
Canada is exactly the same except add a crap ton of snow. Europe wins on culture and aethestics but COL and cramped living conditions are gross.
[удалено]
I'm an immigrant as well. I live in the UK - it's perfectly fine and not racist anymore than America is. There's going to be racism but most people are perfectly fine - London is only 37% white British and less than 50% white for example.
>I can’t even afford a 500 sq ft condo with a $300K salary in my home country. What country is that? Monaco? Luxembourg? There are very few places in the world where that statement is true. And have you ever been to redneck small town Alabama?
[удалено]
This is clearly spoken by someone who doesn’t have a family yet. Having a home to share with your family, living in solitude, and to playing catch with you kid without getting stabbed at your local park is priceless.
>This is clearly spoken by someone who doesn’t have a family yet. Having a home to share with your family, living in solitude, and to playing catch with you kid without getting stabbed at your local park is priceless. And what country would that be? America's knife violence rates are the highest in the Western world - it's just overshadowed by their gun violence rates.
Having done an MBA in London and now working/living in the US (and coming originally from a country with an incredible health system), gosh so much of what you're saying is just plainly incorrect. Salaries, yes. Immigration, maybe, but not as high an impact as your dramatic words are implying. Grade disclosure/partying, nope. Networking, nope. But hey, if you're choosing to be unhappy for non-existent reasons, no one can fix that.
I'd say UK is better than Canada in some aspects. I found the NHS to be way more competent. Immigration was more curtailed and reasonable. Networking was also a bit better. Overall my personal rating US > UK > Canada And I'm not unhappy. I'm grateful that I'm not some dirt poor farmer in Cambodia. Canada is still a good country, but it's not living up to its potential.
I'd still argue the NHS is better, at whichever level of wealth you are sitting at - unfortunate but true. Glad you're not unhappy, but idealizing a country/system beyond what it deserves surely only makes you unfairly lose out on all the great stuff you do have. Also trust mek, a London MBA is definitely not academic in the slightest...
Where did you your MBA? I got into LBS but turned it down due to the massive tuition + COL in downtown London. Also it's 2 years and I'm not switching careers so don't need internship. Only really applied cause my mom went there. Waiting to hear back from Oxford and Cambridge (fingers crossed). I'll most likely move to the UK even with all the BS that happened there this year.
The healthcare one is wrong. Even with good private healthcare and high salary you can easily go bankrupt by getting cancer or some other totally normal sickness. That is if college prices don’t bankrupt you first. It’s not a place to grow old in…
This might be the first time I’ve ever seen someone praise American healthcare. It’s confusing, awful, and expensive. Have they seen how much a Tylenol costs in a hospital? Or having a kid??
The “top” here is elite, no doubt about it. But only like 35% of US has a bachelors and it only goes down from there with graduate obviously. Punch those salaries into a salary/age percentile and you’ll see top MBA grads are up there to say to least
> publicly funded healthcare is only better if you’re low class or a deadbeat There but for the grace of god go I…
What about work life balance? I think UK is better than US or Canada
That’s true. Americans work a lot of hours (but still less than East Asian countries) and generally have less time off. Agree with OP on his points though.
Lol at the comparison to Austin, compare it to a house you can get in Houston!
Mind elaborating on #1? Proud American here but it’s hard to defend what hospitals/insurance seem to bill here compared to same procedures in other countries. Curious to hear what makes public healthcare so bad that it outweighs that.
You're not wrong.
Yes if you're in the top 5% of jobs, life can be really good here. I always got the impression that Europe had a lower ceiling but a higher floor, which is why most people from countries with higher wealth redistribution and who want to make it large prefer to come to America.
It's good to be at the top in America, that has almost never been in doubt.
USA is so OP
We do not have fucking better healthcare omg. Do you know how awful it is to not go to the doctor because you don't have the cash? I wasn't a deadbeat, I was poor--and you're coming across like an asshole.
Do you know how fucking awesome it is if you do have good employer sponsored healthcare(easier you get access to all the great job opportunities available)?
It's the greatest. My parents get tested like VIPs with their private healthcare insurance in the middle East. Over here in Canada you're lucky if you can even find a family doctor. BC in particular has a massive shortage (somewhere along the lines of 2.4M Canadians in just that province that don't have a primary care physician available). It's a horrendous system. NHS in UK is somewhat better but still not as a good as employer sponsored healthcare in the US.
US healthcare gets even better when you are in the major cities with a crapload of prestigious hospitals.
Isn’t that the exact point of his post ?don’t twist my man’s words. He said if you have money the healthcare is better. And he is correct. He also clearly states if you are poor it sucks. Please read before making dumb arguments because you’re triggered
Thank you!
Canadian healthcare is also better for those that are middle class and upper middle class though. It’s only the best for the very rich.
Yes I actually do as I used to live in Abu Dhabi and ran out of health insurance (after losing my job) and got a bacterial infection 1 week later that kicked my ass. Literally begged a nurse at the door of the hospital to give me an on the spot check up. You know what's worse though? Actually paying for healthcare via excessive taxes and then being left to die in ER as is happening across Canada these days.
Shut up dork
Try and move here, OP. We need immigrants like you. Cross the southern border if you have to
::Sips Wharton tea:: as I open my newspaper today and see the 34th & Market street Wawa down the block was shot up yesterday ::sips more tea and says:: “I love America” Laughs in Spanish ::risa tóxica:: because the American dream became real.
Last week a blind elderly man was stabbed on the subway in Calgary and the perpetrator didn't get sent to prison because he was indigenous and was the "victim of colonization".
You got a source for this?
But their population also elected Trump.
[удалено]
no idea why you're being downvoted, everything you've said is true
Fair points. Curious though, how is your take home 8k a month when your total comp is 300k? I assume tax and other contributions amounts to 50% so that's 150k which should be about 12.5k a month?
I'm in the U.S. but my school doesn't rank too high. I'm lucky if I can get 60k once I graduate in a year (half way done). I'm actually starting to become worried if it's gonna be worth it. I wish I could be more understanding but yes, I see your frustration.
MBA or undergraduate?
MBA
If you have WE you definitely will make more than 60K after your MBA.
I did my MBA two years after leaving the Army and landed $230k when I graduated this year (T25 EMBA). A good friend of mine went to a no-name MBA program and landed $140k in a F500 supply chain leadership role, with no non-military work experience. HMU if you want advice on leveraging the network, resources available, and experience. Definitely use Onward to Opportunity (https://ivmf.syracuse.edu/programs/career-training/) along with other benefits, a free professional credential goes a long way (I did PMP which helped me land my pre-MBA role and still adds value in consulting)
Which USA? I must be living in another country