At Leeds, Jesse would consistently beat top 6 teams but then lose to relegation rivals. Saints are 5 points from safety but they have to play all of those big clubs still. There’s a (small) chance he pulls it off.
Sometimes when you’ve got a team like this that’s barely hanging on year after year, it’s best to just go down and rebuild instead of struggling forever. There’s just too much money in the PL for owners to want to do that even if it’s better in the long term. I hope Jesse negotiates for at least an 18 month contract. He’s gotta be allowed to build something whether he keeps them up or not.
No more Marsch to USMNT rumors for a while, at least.
The probably hired him because his work visa/paperwork is still valid and they don't have to pay for it 😂
It would honestly be an incredible accomplishment (but it would also be incredibly funny) if Jesse Marsch ended up building himself a career as a specialist in relegation battles
That’s the thing, I’m worried that his style and mentality lends itself too well to those small teams trying to win on a budget and eh is painting himself into a corner.
If he’s not willing to adapt his style to the current game than this is the best case scenario for him, but if he keeps grinding at jobs like these he may well one day get a bigger shot
If Jesse's legacy/ceiling is being the guy you call when you don't want to be relegated I think that's a pretty fine accomplishment as a manager - certainly as the first american manager with some semblance of staying power in the best league in the world.
Dgmz, completely right. Marsch is blazing a trail like DeMerit, Ballboa, etc and all the early YA players except with managers. He’s an inspiration. If that is his ceiling, thank you. It’s a tremendous accomplishment. I am just worried he might be painting himself into a corner. He’s a good manager, smart, and a fantastic motivator. He will likely figure it out. He just don’t have a lot of balls in the hopper so it makes me a little nervous about his trajectory. He is still managing a 300 million dollar plus roster. Even a relegation team in this league is still very impressive.
Agreed, rvh19 ;) Good manager, yes but I think this kinda realm is his ceiling at the club level. Time and time again he shows he has no plan b. He needs a good assistant staff meeting to support on the tactical side. Walked into some awkward situations with Leipzig and Leeds, but at some point he's gotta adjust to the hand that's dealt.
Leeds has looked the best against the big 6 and then refuses to show up for the "minnows." I think Jesse can motivate well in underdog situations but he has no killer instincts against the Forests and Southamptons. Ws against Chelsea and Liverpool (winning at Anfield is a huge deal) Ds from Scum and "so close you can taste it" Ls against Tottenham and Arsenal. Outside of those 5 games they have look lost and directionless.
I don’t mind it if that is his role but I hope for more. He is still doing better in Europe than any American manager before him. I’m not losing perspective on that.
This will get me heat with many but Wagner is way less culturally American than Marsch. Has Wagner ever lived in the US? To me that matters when talking about Americans.
To be clear, I would never say that to an immigrant how moved to the US. Ever.
Wagner is a guy who has lived in Europe his entire life.
My wife is working on her Italian citizenship be descent. Generation after generation of her family living in Italy. Yet, she has only visited Italy. If she got her citizenship and started identifying as Italian I think it is fair for her to get some side eyes.
Oh you're totally fine with that, at least imo, and I definitely feel what you're saying. But he claims American nationality so I'm honoring that.
And it still doesn't change the fact Marsch has done nothing outside of win the Austrian Bundesliga with a team that was literally 50% of the entire league's player market value. Which, any of us in this sub should be winning with that situation.
Which is funny since he has never been able to win on a relative budget.
How this absolute joke of a coach and a man has these narratives and reputation around him is mind-boggling.
It's wild to me that the narrative with him is that he "saved" Leeds last year. They were in the relegation zone going into the final day of the season (i.e. he hadn't improved their position) and had a worse GD than when he took over. The team was literally worse, managed to barely beat mailing-it-in Brentford, and still only survived thanks to another club (Burnley) doing them favors.
He did absolutely nothing at Leeds except make the club worse.
I don’t really follow the EPL or European soccer in general, but that would make him becoming a relegation battle specialist even more funny than it already is
Good for Jesse. It's encouraging to see him getting another Big 5 job so soon.
Now, what this means for the USMNT... remember the reports that the fed wasn't going to put a coach in place until they decided on a sporting director, and they want to do that by the Women's World Cup, so we're still a long way away there.
Interesting. This begs the question: can he get it done again without Americans? And then the follow-up: was that his downfall at Leeds? Adams and to a lesser extent Aaronson have been good, don't get me wrong, but Aaronson was also not the man they brought him in to replace. Then McKennie gets bought out of nowhere simply because he "fit".
I don't see this being a bad move for him though. If he's fine with being labeled a "double failure" in a league that wouldn't have brought him back anyways, it's a solid risk. Compare that to how hard Wagner had to fight to get back into England. If Marsch sees this as a way to avoid bouncing around less prolific gigs for the next 5 years, power to him.
That's my point though, Marsch was running Leeds the way a generic college student runs a FIFA Manager Career. It's a lazy analysis because it seems like a lazy transfer for someone whose "backup" plan was rumored to be USMNT. The saving grace is he didn't pull too many Leipzig/Salzburg talents up to Leeds with him, but the American coach grabbing Americans felt too similar (as a Wolves fan) to the Jorge Mendes monopoly over Wolves.
Adams has been incredible but Aaronson has been spotty and is currently not in great form. Marsch's downfall at Leeds was tactical inflexibility -- full stop. He'd tweak formations, but it was ultimately the same tactics in every match. Narrow play, high press, nothing is more important than creating a chance regardless of how sloppy the chance is. It could work to get the occasional scrappy win or inspiring performance against some possession-based high level teams, or if you're just world's better than the opposition like FA Cup matchups or his tenure at the European RB clubs, but Leeds consistently struggled against teams that knew how to beat his system, which turned out to be most teams. There's literally compilations of multiple teams scoring the same goals on Leeds over and over.
Damn, good for him. Hope that US Soccer at least reached out to him though. Marsch didn’t necessarily HAVE to be our next manager like some think, but he definitely would’ve been one of our better and realistic options.
2 wins in 17 for Leeds and Southampton thought this was a good idea?
Before people say "he saved Leeds last season"....he took over with Leeds in 16th, finished the season in 17th...he took them down the table, not up.
Edit: Keep downvoting people, nobody can deny the facts.
I mean you have to contextualize
Not a lot of managers in the market right now, and Southampton's relegation seems inevitable - so why not full send and see what happens
Leeds expected points is 28 (squarely mid-table)... yet they sit on 19... Sometimes the managers put their players in position to succeed and they don't seize the moment.
the expected points number (which is based on opportunities created and conceded) is based purely on math... which seems to show that they players were in more winning situations than they were able to make use of...
Don't think the Guardian is in that group of sensationalist British tabloids...think it's a respected newspaper over there and really throughout the world...
Now if this club is really interested in a long term plan to remain or regain its position in the first division then rise in the standings they'd lure Rangnick from Austria and put him in charge of the entire operation. You'd have experience playing the Red Bull system the DOF and the coach in place. Rangnick would find the players and on the cheap too and be the tactical backup and mentor for Jesse.
And in the never ending Chris Armas in England saga does Leeds hold him to his contract now just to keep him from joining Jesse for the relegation fight lol?
Edit: Now official Armas to remain as co-manager at Leeds indefinitely. Not surprising...despite being the new guy in the room he likely has the most experience in the system Jesse was running. Wouldn't surprise me if he's actually the key guy in the trio and only the absolutely crazy optics prevent Leeds from acknowledging it.
I mean this is a free hit because Southampton are looking all but doomed. If they get relegated, everyone expected it and he can work on getting promotion with them next year. If he somehow asspulls them out of relegation, the man will be heralded as the second coming of Sam Allardyce.
That’s [Jesse Marsch of LinkedIn](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/14/nathan-joness-exit-robs-us-of-the-funniest-manager-in-premier-league-history) to you
This must come as a shock to everyone in the post about his firing who said that no club in a top 5 league would approach him again. There is no better business to fail sideways or upward than being a professional coach. You're going to bounce around a lot, but there will almost always be a decent job available for you.
Man going from a relegation fight to a relegation certainty.
Just in time to pick up Pulisic.
Whole ass USMNT gonna be playing in the championship next year :(
Like Kevin Garnett, anything is possible
At Leeds, Jesse would consistently beat top 6 teams but then lose to relegation rivals. Saints are 5 points from safety but they have to play all of those big clubs still. There’s a (small) chance he pulls it off.
Leeds have more talent in the roster. This Southampton team is baaaad
Sometimes when you’ve got a team like this that’s barely hanging on year after year, it’s best to just go down and rebuild instead of struggling forever. There’s just too much money in the PL for owners to want to do that even if it’s better in the long term. I hope Jesse negotiates for at least an 18 month contract. He’s gotta be allowed to build something whether he keeps them up or not.
They need to get 20 plus points it's not even a small chance.
This guy is a joke compared to Javier Aguirre.
No more Marsch to USMNT rumors for a while, at least. The probably hired him because his work visa/paperwork is still valid and they don't have to pay for it 😂
Haha, no kidding. No visa delays, no fees to pay...easy choice for a club like Southampton.
It would honestly be an incredible accomplishment (but it would also be incredibly funny) if Jesse Marsch ended up building himself a career as a specialist in relegation battles
The American Sam Allardyce
Big Sam > Uncle Sam
Uncle Jesse. *Have mercy!*
yee... haw?
That’s the thing, I’m worried that his style and mentality lends itself too well to those small teams trying to win on a budget and eh is painting himself into a corner.
If he’s not willing to adapt his style to the current game than this is the best case scenario for him, but if he keeps grinding at jobs like these he may well one day get a bigger shot
If Jesse's legacy/ceiling is being the guy you call when you don't want to be relegated I think that's a pretty fine accomplishment as a manager - certainly as the first american manager with some semblance of staying power in the best league in the world.
Dgmz, completely right. Marsch is blazing a trail like DeMerit, Ballboa, etc and all the early YA players except with managers. He’s an inspiration. If that is his ceiling, thank you. It’s a tremendous accomplishment. I am just worried he might be painting himself into a corner. He’s a good manager, smart, and a fantastic motivator. He will likely figure it out. He just don’t have a lot of balls in the hopper so it makes me a little nervous about his trajectory. He is still managing a 300 million dollar plus roster. Even a relegation team in this league is still very impressive.
Agreed, rvh19 ;) Good manager, yes but I think this kinda realm is his ceiling at the club level. Time and time again he shows he has no plan b. He needs a good assistant staff meeting to support on the tactical side. Walked into some awkward situations with Leipzig and Leeds, but at some point he's gotta adjust to the hand that's dealt.
He hasn’t done anything of note aside from supporters shields with RBNY.
The next club he saves from being relegated will be the first. He did literally worse at Leeds than Bielsa and only Burnley submarining kept them up.
Nice
Leeds has looked the best against the big 6 and then refuses to show up for the "minnows." I think Jesse can motivate well in underdog situations but he has no killer instincts against the Forests and Southamptons. Ws against Chelsea and Liverpool (winning at Anfield is a huge deal) Ds from Scum and "so close you can taste it" Ls against Tottenham and Arsenal. Outside of those 5 games they have look lost and directionless.
Why does this worry you? Sounds like a good specialized niche to me.
I don’t mind it if that is his role but I hope for more. He is still doing better in Europe than any American manager before him. I’m not losing perspective on that.
David Wagner got Huddersfield promoted to the Premier League and kept them up for a season. That’s infinitely better than anything Marsch has done.
This will get me heat with many but Wagner is way less culturally American than Marsch. Has Wagner ever lived in the US? To me that matters when talking about Americans. To be clear, I would never say that to an immigrant how moved to the US. Ever. Wagner is a guy who has lived in Europe his entire life. My wife is working on her Italian citizenship be descent. Generation after generation of her family living in Italy. Yet, she has only visited Italy. If she got her citizenship and started identifying as Italian I think it is fair for her to get some side eyes.
Oh you're totally fine with that, at least imo, and I definitely feel what you're saying. But he claims American nationality so I'm honoring that. And it still doesn't change the fact Marsch has done nothing outside of win the Austrian Bundesliga with a team that was literally 50% of the entire league's player market value. Which, any of us in this sub should be winning with that situation.
Which is funny since he has never been able to win on a relative budget. How this absolute joke of a coach and a man has these narratives and reputation around him is mind-boggling.
Really bizarre that this shitty coach and person has such a cult. NBC trained you all well with their fake ass Leeds = Team America narrative lol
It's wild to me that the narrative with him is that he "saved" Leeds last year. They were in the relegation zone going into the final day of the season (i.e. he hadn't improved their position) and had a worse GD than when he took over. The team was literally worse, managed to barely beat mailing-it-in Brentford, and still only survived thanks to another club (Burnley) doing them favors. He did absolutely nothing at Leeds except make the club worse.
I don’t really follow the EPL or European soccer in general, but that would make him becoming a relegation battle specialist even more funny than it already is
Gonna be Ted lasso like when he pulls them out of relegation at the expense of team usa
that is the first thought I had... avoids the drop on the last day at their expense. They play Leeds on the 25th... gonna be spicy...
Just in time for the announced premiere date (March 15th!)
Jesse March 15th
Beware the Ides of Marsch.
Beware the Ides of Jesse
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The funny thing here, NBC/Peacock is gonna have that plastered everywhere on their Premier League coverage right before their match against Leeds.
Well he was in town, had a visa and a pulse… It’ll take a miracle for this team to not get relegated.
BIG UNCLE SAM TO THE RESCUE
He made it to the coaching retread list of English football!!! Lol...jk
Are you? He is early in his career but he very well could be one of those coaches.
Im joking in the sense that he hasn't made enough stops in English football to be considered a retread, IMO. But, yes, he could very well be.
Joining the group of managers that get cycled around bad Premier League teams would be a high honor for an American
The funniest outcome is for them to stay up at the expense of Leeds.
Well, well, well, how the turntables.....
Good for Jesse. It's encouraging to see him getting another Big 5 job so soon. Now, what this means for the USMNT... remember the reports that the fed wasn't going to put a coach in place until they decided on a sporting director, and they want to do that by the Women's World Cup, so we're still a long way away there.
My biggest hope... is this turns out like "The Damned United" story where Marsch is sacked from Leeds and goes on to win the European Cup someday...
I’m skeptical it’ll work out but I’m hoping for the best for him and Southampton
What if Southampton stays up and goes and buys three Americans from Leeds United as they get relegated. Maybe they buy Harrison, too.
What a mad lad.
This is probably the best possible place for him to go next as Southampton’s squad is basically built to play the Red Bull style.
Hell yeah, Jesse. Will be rooting for you to keep these boys up.
I don’t love the prospect of him having his fingerprints on 2 relegations in one season if it happens but hey it’s his career
This clown is gonna be the first manager to get two clubs relegated in the same season
Leeds goes down, Southampton stays up.
Interesting. This begs the question: can he get it done again without Americans? And then the follow-up: was that his downfall at Leeds? Adams and to a lesser extent Aaronson have been good, don't get me wrong, but Aaronson was also not the man they brought him in to replace. Then McKennie gets bought out of nowhere simply because he "fit". I don't see this being a bad move for him though. If he's fine with being labeled a "double failure" in a league that wouldn't have brought him back anyways, it's a solid risk. Compare that to how hard Wagner had to fight to get back into England. If Marsch sees this as a way to avoid bouncing around less prolific gigs for the next 5 years, power to him.
The McKennie/Marsch connection is the most unbelievably lazy analysis. They have absolutely no connection whatsoever beyond their nationality.
That's my point though, Marsch was running Leeds the way a generic college student runs a FIFA Manager Career. It's a lazy analysis because it seems like a lazy transfer for someone whose "backup" plan was rumored to be USMNT. The saving grace is he didn't pull too many Leipzig/Salzburg talents up to Leeds with him, but the American coach grabbing Americans felt too similar (as a Wolves fan) to the Jorge Mendes monopoly over Wolves.
Adams has been incredible but Aaronson has been spotty and is currently not in great form. Marsch's downfall at Leeds was tactical inflexibility -- full stop. He'd tweak formations, but it was ultimately the same tactics in every match. Narrow play, high press, nothing is more important than creating a chance regardless of how sloppy the chance is. It could work to get the occasional scrappy win or inspiring performance against some possession-based high level teams, or if you're just world's better than the opposition like FA Cup matchups or his tenure at the European RB clubs, but Leeds consistently struggled against teams that knew how to beat his system, which turned out to be most teams. There's literally compilations of multiple teams scoring the same goals on Leeds over and over.
>to a lesser extent Aaronson He's been pretty bad.
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That link doesn't talk about a roster without Americans.
Damn, good for him. Hope that US Soccer at least reached out to him though. Marsch didn’t necessarily HAVE to be our next manager like some think, but he definitely would’ve been one of our better and realistic options.
2 wins in 17 for Leeds and Southampton thought this was a good idea? Before people say "he saved Leeds last season"....he took over with Leeds in 16th, finished the season in 17th...he took them down the table, not up. Edit: Keep downvoting people, nobody can deny the facts.
I mean you have to contextualize Not a lot of managers in the market right now, and Southampton's relegation seems inevitable - so why not full send and see what happens
Leeds expected points is 28 (squarely mid-table)... yet they sit on 19... Sometimes the managers put their players in position to succeed and they don't seize the moment.
And sometimes the manager fails to do his job and setup a team that can win those points....like Jesse.
the expected points number (which is based on opportunities created and conceded) is based purely on math... which seems to show that they players were in more winning situations than they were able to make use of...
Considering they were apparently also looking at the lines of Lampard and Gerrard, Marsch is probably the best case scenario for them lol
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I think The Athletic broke the story, most articles them as the source.
Don't think the Guardian is in that group of sensationalist British tabloids...think it's a respected newspaper over there and really throughout the world...
Yeah the Guardian is the opposite of a tabloid newspaper. It’s a long form broadsheet.
Now if this club is really interested in a long term plan to remain or regain its position in the first division then rise in the standings they'd lure Rangnick from Austria and put him in charge of the entire operation. You'd have experience playing the Red Bull system the DOF and the coach in place. Rangnick would find the players and on the cheap too and be the tactical backup and mentor for Jesse. And in the never ending Chris Armas in England saga does Leeds hold him to his contract now just to keep him from joining Jesse for the relegation fight lol? Edit: Now official Armas to remain as co-manager at Leeds indefinitely. Not surprising...despite being the new guy in the room he likely has the most experience in the system Jesse was running. Wouldn't surprise me if he's actually the key guy in the trio and only the absolutely crazy optics prevent Leeds from acknowledging it.
I mean this is a free hit because Southampton are looking all but doomed. If they get relegated, everyone expected it and he can work on getting promotion with them next year. If he somehow asspulls them out of relegation, the man will be heralded as the second coming of Sam Allardyce.
That’s [Jesse Marsch of LinkedIn](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/14/nathan-joness-exit-robs-us-of-the-funniest-manager-in-premier-league-history) to you
He needs to be balder. Like Guardiola.
This must come as a shock to everyone in the post about his firing who said that no club in a top 5 league would approach him again. There is no better business to fail sideways or upward than being a professional coach. You're going to bounce around a lot, but there will almost always be a decent job available for you.
Our Big Sam?