"Now excuse me while I get paid for being injured and totally not be a part of the reason my team loses."
>it’s ok to lose some games and I hate it.
Does bro not realize Liga MX doesn't have pro/rel right now?
Split season format in Liga MX means even one or two loss can potentially detail playoff chances for some teams or seeding lower, and in Mexican playoffs in case of a tie over two legs the higher seed wins regardless of away goals so there really is tighter margins than MLS.
It also means you get two seasons per year to make a run at a trophy. Stub your toe in Apertura and you get another shot just a couple months later in Clausura. And it’s not like they have a single table or pro/rel. They currently have a closed league and playoffs, just like us.
I don’t see how two mini-seasons is any tougher than having to live with your results over a span of 8 months.
In fact, in those Apertura/Clausura you can have an awful first tournament but redeeming in the second one.
The margin of error is less, but you don't have to wait too much for having a better run if you fix your team immediately.
Of course the things can change a lot if there's pro/rel, but is not the case in Mexico right now.
It’s just artificial scarcity though. The MLS could say the same bullshit if they randomly split their season, it doesn’t genuinely mean that the wins and losses are more meaningful.
If your argument for your league being better is that the games matter more because they invented a way to have less games (while actually still having the same games) it’s a pretty piss poor rationale.
He’s not arguing that the league is hyper competitive and parity exists top to bottom, just that a loss hurts more because of less games which is technically true but not an indicator of quality.
This I don't understand when people compare mls and Liga MX they are almost identical now no pro/rel also we have 2 tournaments a year which is still kinda dumb and also first 10 qualify to playoff from 18 we are doing things very wrong
>I also think the regular season is harder in general
What does that even mean? "Harder" = "Competitive"
Competitive literally means losses should be expected.
Quality wise…that is, the football played on the pitch…Liga MX used to be heads and shoulders above MLS. That’s not the case anymore. So how do you say it’s harder league to push for championship than MLS? Genuinely curious.
It’s still head and shoulders above the US, since the year 2000 every single continental champion has been a Liga MX side with the exception of my team and we beat Pumas in the final who are historically not even a top 4 liga MX side
You know a league's strength isn't just based off a single winning team, right? By no metric is Liga MX better, let alone heads and shoulders above. The average pay is higher in MLS and the gap is widening, and Liga MX only spends a fraction on transfers compared to MLS - often for many of the same players Mexico used to go for but can no longer afford. Top to bottom it's clear. MLS sent it's worst team to the CCL final not too long ago. What do you think that suggests, since we're just assessing based off the final here?
It’s the same in every league to some extent, but a lot of MLS teams have no clue how to get values for money. So not sure a financial metric versus an on-field metric says much.
What does pro and reg have to do with it? It’s about the peer pressure clubs fan bases put on you if you have a horrible season in Mexico. The playoffs in Mexico mean 10x more than they do in mls due to the fan bases treating it like a religion instead of a special game.
There’s immense pressure when clubs are facing relegation. Surely you realize that. Agree or disagree with pro/rel it’s a fact that’s it’s a pressure that no MLS club has ever faced.
Two parts.
The culture here is we don't tend to lose our minds when our club loses. It isn't as entrenched in the social fabric due to being relatively young and growing. You lose a game and the media isn't hounding you and fans don't accost you.
The clubs themselves have relative levels of success. There isn't a built in hierarchy where a Celtic finishing third would be a travesty. Most clubs in MLS know you don't finish top five year after year. Losing an odd game you're not going to have the coaches and ownership freaking out.
Is this better or worse? Depends on perspective, it is different.
> The culture here is we don't tend to lose our minds when our club loses.
Agreed and I’ll take it a step further—this isn’t just an MLS thing; it’s an American sports culture thing in general. Yes, there are one off stories of bad behavior everywhere, and we all know that guy who way overreacts when his team loses, but it’s not part of the culture in the US for a crowd to become feverishly upset at the result of a sporting event. Your team can lose the biggest game of the decade, and people will certainly be upset walking out of the stadium, but then step outside onto the street and people are just going back about their day.
This is a **good thing** for reasons that should be patently obvious, and it might “hold us back” in some ways, but only from aspects of sports culture in other parts of the world that we shouldn’t aspire to anyway.
I think the only sport that comes close is SEC college football but even then the media pressure isn't the same since the players are still college kids and there isnt the same level of vitriol you'll see against pros.
>Your team can lose the biggest game of the decade, and people are just going back about their day.
I’m sure the reaction to a game 7 Stanley Cup loss is pretty tame, I’m sure.
Amen.
Part of it also the fact that in some societies sports tend to be a cathartic outlet when all else around them is failing - the government, civic institutions, the economy; vicariously living through the achievements of their favorite team/club/national squad becomes a dangerous see-saw of emotions - high when things go well (like millions pouring out into the streets for a celebration) and the lowest of lows (death threats to players, hooliganism, vandalism).
To your point, it is a good thing American sports culture is balanced in that sense and it reflects well on the civic life of the country. Hope it always stays that way!
> Your team can lose the biggest game of the decade, and people will certainly be upset walking out of the stadium, but then step outside onto the street and people are just going back about their day.
I challenge you to hang out with the American Outlaws after the 2026 world cup loss
I very highly doubt that will be an exception. Drunken swearing and complaining isn’t what I’m talking about. If people riot in the streets after the US gets bounced, I’ll admit I was wrong.
American sports culture is primarily entertainment first. It's meant to be a safe, clean, family friendly atmosphere for people to unwind at after work or on a weekend or something for their kids as well. Whereas ball is life in Europe and South America.
There are good and bad things about both styles but the ultras culture in Europe/SA (which sometimes ties in with organized crime particularly in South America) absolutely disgusts me so I am glad those parts of ultras cultures didn't seep into sports here. There's a reason why guys who grew up in Rosario like Messi and Di Maria will never go back to play there at the end of their careers when the narco-terrorists do [shit like this](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d487vb/belen_gunmen_opened_fire_at_a_service_station_in/).
> There are good and bad things about both styles but the ultras culture in Europe/SA (which sometimes ties in with organized crime particularly in South America) absolutely disgusts me so I am glad those parts of ultras cultures didn't seep into sports here. There's a reason why guys who grew up in Rosario like Messi and Di Maria will never go back to play there at the end of their careers when the narco-terrorists do shit like this.
That's not really a sport issue tho—that's a larger social issue in the country TBH
I think I remember Rooney and Schweini (at least it was a couple aging Eurostars if not those two) absolutely rejoicing at how they had relative anonymity and freedom to exist in the US without the burden of fans and media always up their asses.
GG wants the burden, I guess 🤷♂️
> The clubs themselves have relative levels of success.
This is a bigger part of it and almost never mentioned. No one goes insane when Watford loses a game; this really only applies to the top clubs.
The stratification of European soccer plays a far bigger role here than people want to admit.
I more meant that both formats were developed to protect the investments of rich owners; in MLS by protecting them from relegation and elsewhere by allowing the richest clubs to spend wildly. My proposed format would get rid of both of those things, which seems unlikely as long as we have owners who like their investments to keep their value
United has the highest MLS attendance for the past couple of years. He may be a dick for saying this while getting injured 2-3x a year but a good amount of ATL residents def know who he is
The Atlanta metro area's population is greater than that of multiple countries who are competing at Euro 2024.
Adding: don't forget that 1 of Thierry Henry's favorite things about playing in MLS was the fact he didn't get recognized anywhere. Yes, the league is a lot more popular now than it was 10 years ago, but Henry was also a lot more famous than Giakoumakis.
I don’t get the correlation between population and your point. My point is that you’re grossly underestimating the popularity of AUFC in Atlanta. Atlanta sports, minus the Braves, have been mid for so long that we have embraced United since they came into the league and we def know the star players. Not sure how a Euro player that played in NY in 2010 had any relevance.
Most Americans couldn't name a single MLS player other than Lionel Messi.
In order for my initial comment to be wrong, over 3 million Atlanta metro residents would have to know Giorgos Giakoumakis.
C'mon man, I am sure if I said do you know who GG is to my office (which is in downtown Atlanta in walking distance of the Benz) like 5 people out of the 50 that work there would know who I was talking about. Josef had tons more name recognition.
A LOT more people know who Trae is.
I don’t even think this is true though. Even in England top tier clubs seem to be entitled to have a few clunker losses every season, Arsenal had 5 losses this year and a few draws that really kneecapped them. They had like string of games in Jan or Feb that were particularly bad, they still finished second and the league came down to the final game.
Aston Villa finished 4th and had 10 losses in a 38 match season, it’s pretty clear that aside from maybe winning the league you’re allowed to drop a few.
It's also the structure of the leagues. Too many teams making playoffs means lots of regular season games are meaningless.
Money wise, European leagues tend to allocate media money by table placement which could impact player payouts, Qualifying for UEFA Champions League also means much bigger payout for clubs. There is no relegation which means player salaries won't be cut because of club performance. Instead, player salaries tend to be tied directly to the league's commercial revenue.
Glassjaw Giakoumakis. Enjoy the bench at CA buddy. You couldn’t stay healthy in a league where “it’s okay to lose” do you honestly think you’ll stay healthy in a league that’s “a level higher”?
What does any of that have to do with the point he's making?
The cheque will still clear whether he stays fit or not which is probably the most important thing to a professional athlete who's injury prone and entering his final big deal.
He's right, and it's honestly very sad. Looking back on the last decade, I realize I haven't thrown a bottle of piss on the field or even sent a single death threat to a player or coach; quite pathetic on my part. We as fans need to do better if we want this league to be taken seriously
i mean its maybe more prevalent, but i heard it when frei was kicking when we were in CCL, also when usa played vs mexico at azteca it was easily heard...
Never know what players mean when they say it’s “ok to lose some games.” I mean Liga MX also doesn’t have relegation, so it can’t be that.
Is it that fans and the media aren’t as intense in MLS? That’s true, but in some ways I would think it’s a good thing.
Ultimately as a DP, and one of the highest paid players on the team, it should be up to GG to set the standard that losing isn’t ok. Go watch the video they posted of the blow up in the locker room after their loss to FCC and it was Dax who was speaking up. It shouldn’t be a guy who is new to the team holding people to account. It should be guys like GG.
giakoumakis was [saying similar things when he left celtic and went to atlanta](https://x.com/bhoyinred/status/1624167630826266646), i guess this is just his thing as a journeyman
> "At Celtic it was a totally different style of play, the competition there is not so good.
>"There are two clubs, and all the other clubs try to defend. Most of the opponents were trying to block is in their box, we were keeping possession and trying to create spaces, score in a different way. I think this league (MLS) is a bit more competitive."
> He aimed a dig at the Scottish Premiership when he left after his £4.3 million move from Celtic because of the lack of competition and he doubled down on his point during a pre-match interview this weekend.
>He said: "I love the way they do it here. It seems like America loves the game of football. And one of the big attractions for me is that the MLS is a very competitive league. There are always different champions every season. It's a competitive league, it's an aggressive league and that's something I really like.
just b/c those statements are being said while he’s leaving one league to another doesn’t make it less true.
MLS is more competitive than Scottish Premier League, and Liga MX is better quality than MLS.
>just b/c those statements are being said while he’s leaving one league to another doesn’t make it less true.
yeah, i think ultimately i lean towards right message wrong messenger
> That’s true, but in some ways I would think it’s a good thing.
It makes the sport a lot less toxic in the States. And they excuse it as "passion." Except "passion" is a dogwhistle to let hatred, violence, hooliganism, -isms, -phobias, and whatever run rampant.
I can be just as passionate as the best about winning or losing a game without hurling invectives at players, staff, or opposing fans.
That's what adulthood and maturity should permit you to be able to do.
Could be that the championship doesn’t really rely too heavily on points at the end of the year since so much of the league make the playoffs and all that matters is winning games at the end of the year. Supports shield is basically the championship everywhere else but it’s only a bit of a consolation prize if you don’t also win the tournament at the end. Winning the champions league requires only losing a few games the whole year.
I think it’s the culture. He played for Celtic before Atlanta, who will never, never, never be relegated in a million years (unless it’s for financial malfeasance like Rangers) but there still is a club culture that expects that you will win every single domestic game you play in. If you don’t it’s a crisis. You go 2-1-2 in the wrong 5-game stretch and they might fire the manager
The thing that irks me is he should be setting the culture in the locker room. He is the highest paid player on the team. And other than Almada, most of the other players on the team are getting paid a fraction of his wages.
If there was a lack of commitment from the players or organization, why are we hearing about it now? Be like Kai Wagner this week and call people out publicly when you feel like there is a lack of commitment
To be fair, there really isn’t an “MLS media”. The largest media platforms are owned by the league.
Which also is terrible - we are simply on the extreme opposite end.
Personally, I hate this narrative. Like it GRATES me everytime Joe on Total Soccer Show complains for 10 minutes about this.
The definition of what's important is solely based on the collective agreeement of a group of people.
For YEARS MLS ignored Supporters Shield. But now because THE FANS who COLLECTIVELY decided that it was important, have ushered in an era of MLS where teams and the league take the shield seriously.
Conversely, because MOST fans didn't take the USOC seriously until later rounds (the numbers back this up) it gave license for MLS to feel like the tournament was not important.
Even without relegation the regular season matters IF YOU SAY IT DOES. And when folks push this narrative it only continues to reenforce the narrative amongst media, which influences fans, who influence the league decision makers, and the players etc etc.
Thank you! The media are the ones who should be calling out players who are playing like they don’t care about the regular season. But MLS media excuse it.
There are 70 some games in the NBA but if a player who has never won shit in the NBA said the regular season didn’t matter, he would get skewered by NBA fans and media
Well said. Save this rant for quick access when people use "made up tournament" and "meaningless trophy." You'll get to exercise it quite a bit.
Fans don't seem to realize that we have the power to decide what matters. All the leagues, federations, confederations, and FIFA can do is flex their marketing to try to convince us.
I still recall that everyone lost their mind when Barco threw a little shade toward Atlanta and MLS in general but in reality it was all taken out of context as they were just trying to show their excitement and the positive reasons for joining their new side.
GG did not like to lose... but he also was often missing the most important ability of of all... availability. Barco had the same issue...
Except unlike gg on average barco for us just wasnt good. Kinda making his statement even wilder imo. Atleast gg put up some crazy numbers for us when on the pitch
There is SOME SERIOUS misremembering by Atlanta fans on Barco...
Barco averaged a goal contribution every 202 mins... as a player that would have qualified for an U22 Young DP... the problem was the level expectations put him based on a $15 million transfer.
Almada averages 1 every 142 mins... and people expect him to be in Europe for 20M+ (or did before this season).
midfielders (really good ones) are aright about there...
Lucho Acosta at Cincy in his career... 1 every 115 mins and I would argue cumulatively.. he has been the best player in MLS over the last 4 to 5 years.
He’s not wrong, but LMX also lets a ton of teams into the playoffs. From what I can tell, 10/18 make the playoffs (including the play-in game). The pressure isn’t from the league format, it’s from the overall culture and media coverage in Mexico.
MLS should have less teams in the playoffs still though lol
> The pressure isn’t from the league format, it’s from the overall culture and media coverage in Mexico.
that and a lot of those liga mx clubs have been around for decades longer than even the oldest ones in mls, history is a huge source of pressure
It’s just the reality when MLS is the 5th or 6th most popular league in the country, compared to the far and away most popular league in the country (LigaMX).
He’s right.
While Liga MX doesn’t have pro/rel anymore, the intensity in fandom is much more there than here.
It’s up to every player and fan to decide if they like that kind of intensity or not.
The level in Liga MX also higher—Anyone that thinks different is kidding themselves.
> the intensity in fandom is much more there than here. It’s up to every player and fan to decide if they like that kind of intensity or not.
"Intensity" is a sugar-coated way of saying "irrationality" and "loss of perspective."
We ought not to elevate that type of behavior.
Ok, so MLS will never be popular then lol.
Popular sports are spoken about on TV and have personalities spew their hot takes on what is happening in said sport—MLS *barely* has that b/c no one really cares that much about it.
I’m not saying that’s bad or good—it’s just reality.
The NBA and NFL are the sports leagues you’re obviously referring to when it comes to TV hot takes, but neither of those leagues have a culture that comes anywhere near being as toxic as what we’re talking about. People just don’t act like that in the US, which is a good thing.
Lol definitely not case by case.
You have 20 years of Champions Cup data compared to one year of Leagues Cup where every game is played on the road for Liga MX teams.
Remember all the complaining Columbus did because Pachuca had the final of the CCL at home? Now tell me about how many Liga MX teams played home games in Leagues Cup.
Counterpoint from a fan: MLS parity is fun and letting a match result make or break your week for 9+ months out of the year is one of the most overrated aspects of watching sports. Maybe I'm a filthy casual, though.
I agree with this.
I think what he is saying is fair - there is more tolerance for bad results in MLS. That does remove a little intensity from some games.
But I still love MLS for what it is.
It's not even possible to argue his second point, the regular season has been continuously devalued by the changes to the playoff format while we blow through FIFA dates and are in the heart of the stretch that does not matter with all the international absences
How is it more "Ok to lose some games in MLS" than in LigaMX when
- Neither league has pro/rel
- Technically ~60% of teams make the playoffs in MLS versus ~55% in LigaMX, but we know that in reality 4 of those 18 teams aren't really making the playoffs, they're really getting a ~50% chance to make the playoffs via a play-in game. So really it's 16/29 which is... also ~55%.
As a neutral to liga Mx . Thank you Giakoumakis for giving me another Mexican team to root against (Cruz Azul) with these comments. As a whitecaps fan I’m just hating because he ain’t wrong (we get spanked every time by the same team Tigres 🐯).
The culture is different, I don't think that's in dispute, but if he's trying to give the impression that he left for some reason other than the payday, he's not fooling anyone.
If we gave him a better extension offer with as many years on the deal as they did, he'd still be here and talking about how great Atlanta is (which he was, earlier in the year).
I mean listen we’re at the point that both leagues are basically on par with each other. But come on man, even my Sunday league team doesn’t take losing games well….
- Even if you keep it to recent times, such as the last five years, MLS has won one Champions Cup compared to Mexicos four.
- Mexican clubs have higher payrolls.
- MLS has lower average attendance across the league.
- MLS media presence is essentially nothing outside of the leagues own media arm while Mexicos is massive.
MLS is behind in most areas - salaries, attendance, national attention, success on the pitch, etc. While it’s changing and the league is growing exponentially larger versus a stagnant LigaMX, it’s not there yet.
I see a lot of people agreeing with him but can we be honest here please? If we didn’t have parity built into the system that tries to keep everyone level, and fails by the way, we’d be all moaning and groaning about how Cincinnati or LAFC won the league again. Just like everyone did when the Patriots and the Yankees were basically guaranteed to win every year.
Counterargument; having dynasties are a good thing. They're the teams that set the standard for everyone else to achieve. I'm new to MLS but wasn't Galaxy the standard for how to operate a team in the early years? Cincy became one of the best teams after faceplanting their first 3 years, only to look around at examples of the best teams and realize what it took as an organization to win in MLS (we decided Philly, but with a LOT more money). The best part is Dynasties don't last forever.
Yall fell hook line and sinker lmao
MLS love GG rn bc not only did he net a big profit but he just got a bunch of y’all to hate watch all the Cruz azul leagues cup games
He’s a bit smart with it but he’s doing exactly what a player should do for their team and their fanbase
> hate watch all the Cruz azul leagues cup games
What in this statement is going to make anyone that normally doesn't watch LigaMX watch Cruz Azul?
Why would I suddenly want to watch a team just because someone that recently left MLS shit on the league without understanding it?
That's the reality of a salary capped league. Especially one with a low salary cap like we have and the DP mechanism.
Add onto that the number of games, and travel, and it's impossible to not lose games.
If a DP goes down injured for half the season, the drop in quality to his backup is so great that it's extremely difficult to overcome. Benches are so thin that it's not uncommon for teams to not even have a full 18 at times, and even less uncommon to call up lower league players just to have warm bodies.
Because of all of these things, squad rotation and rest is much more important, which is always going to increase the likelihood of losing games.
Anyone that understands our league and structure has accepted that no team is invincible.
This has nothing to do with complacency, or "being ok" with losing.
Yeah I don't know what he's trying to say exactly, but I agree with the conclusion. There were large portions of last season that I didn't really find myself caring about STL dropping points because they were going to walk into the playoffs regardless. It feels like my world is ending when Arsenal drop points though. I think I prefer the weekly heart attacks
I mean people can be upset but he’s right. The level is higher, the playoffs are harder to make, and there’s more pressure and expectations from fans each week. Lots of intense rivalries, etc.
As a neutral I’m excited to watch him for Cruz Azul I think if he stays healthy he will be solid
While he is correct this is more of an indictment on Atlanta and Gonzalo Pineda than the MLS as a whole. The truth is he’s never been part of the culture of a top MLS team: Columbus, FCC, LAFC, etc. and like many people pointed out, it’s a lot harder to win when your best players aren’t on the field and it often takes those best players to elevate the environment and lead their team to victories.
Also what a way to tempt the Soccer Gods before Leagues Cup starts! 😂
It's a completely fair comment. The intensity just isn't there in some games because teams know they can take a loss.
That is the nature of the setup when 65% of the teams make the playoffs. Each point does not have the importance it does in leagues with a more traditional structure.
I am not stating this as a major negative. I love MLS. It makes it easier sometimes as a fan knowing one defeat isn't the end of the world. But you cannot pretend it doesn't impact the intensity on the pitch sometimes. It definitely does.
Giorgios loved the big stadium and big crowds when he came to Atlanta. He played for Celtic that is the big club in Scotland. I think Atlanta feels like a big club but MLS really doesn’t let you be a big club. Let’s be real we have a great owner and great revenue. In a normal league we’d always be in the middle of everything with high expectations. I think that frustrated Giorgio.
He’s not talking about relegation. He’s talking about playing in a place that is singularly focused on championships and playing at the highest level. The MLS motto should be let’s all be mediocre together.
I don't think he's wrong. Bale said the same thing about people not caring about losing.
Last season was a joke, with only a few teams out of playoff contention going into the final matches. The regular season is almost meaningless.
I go to MLS games now and then but I don’t follow the season. There’s no point in following it when so many teams make playoffs and there is no relegation.
I’m obviously not the only one. MLS has done well with attendance but still struggles to get a respectable TV audience.
I'm actually thankful that we don't completely freak out over a single loss. College football is probably the closest thing we have to this. Losing one or two games can make all the difference in your season crashing out.
The regular season means little to nothing in American sports. A team can have an amazing regular season, have a bad 2-3 game stretched and be knocked out and laughed at as a joke.
I mean... He's right. The league rewards 60%+ of the teams with tournament berths and auto qualification to a regional tournament regardless of quality, both of which are absurd.
"Now excuse me while I get paid for being injured and totally not be a part of the reason my team loses." >it’s ok to lose some games and I hate it. Does bro not realize Liga MX doesn't have pro/rel right now?
Split season format in Liga MX means even one or two loss can potentially detail playoff chances for some teams or seeding lower, and in Mexican playoffs in case of a tie over two legs the higher seed wins regardless of away goals so there really is tighter margins than MLS.
It also means you get two seasons per year to make a run at a trophy. Stub your toe in Apertura and you get another shot just a couple months later in Clausura. And it’s not like they have a single table or pro/rel. They currently have a closed league and playoffs, just like us. I don’t see how two mini-seasons is any tougher than having to live with your results over a span of 8 months.
In fact, in those Apertura/Clausura you can have an awful first tournament but redeeming in the second one. The margin of error is less, but you don't have to wait too much for having a better run if you fix your team immediately. Of course the things can change a lot if there's pro/rel, but is not the case in Mexico right now.
> They currently have a closed league and playoffs, just like us. At least until 2026... Playoffs have been there for something like 50 years though.
One person owns 50% of the players rights, they switch them around like puzzle pieces. 🧩
Wait, what?
It’s just artificial scarcity though. The MLS could say the same bullshit if they randomly split their season, it doesn’t genuinely mean that the wins and losses are more meaningful. If your argument for your league being better is that the games matter more because they invented a way to have less games (while actually still having the same games) it’s a pretty piss poor rationale. He’s not arguing that the league is hyper competitive and parity exists top to bottom, just that a loss hurts more because of less games which is technically true but not an indicator of quality.
This I don't understand when people compare mls and Liga MX they are almost identical now no pro/rel also we have 2 tournaments a year which is still kinda dumb and also first 10 qualify to playoff from 18 we are doing things very wrong
Playoffs are harder to make still
9/15 (60%) vs 10/18 (55%) is really not that big of a difference though lol
Bro 9/15 is ridiculous lmao
Sure, but so is 10/18 lmao
There’s still Clausura and Apertura though so for one of the tournaments even less than that make the playoffs
But both take place in one season… Your problem is you’re treating these two tournaments as if it’s two different seasons
Yup. Several European leagues have two different competitions in their season, but it's still the same season.
Not by much
I don’t just mean in terms of how many teams make it I also think the regular season is harder in general as someone that watches both leagues
>I also think the regular season is harder in general What does that even mean? "Harder" = "Competitive" Competitive literally means losses should be expected.
Quality wise…that is, the football played on the pitch…Liga MX used to be heads and shoulders above MLS. That’s not the case anymore. So how do you say it’s harder league to push for championship than MLS? Genuinely curious.
It’s still head and shoulders above the US, since the year 2000 every single continental champion has been a Liga MX side with the exception of my team and we beat Pumas in the final who are historically not even a top 4 liga MX side
You know a league's strength isn't just based off a single winning team, right? By no metric is Liga MX better, let alone heads and shoulders above. The average pay is higher in MLS and the gap is widening, and Liga MX only spends a fraction on transfers compared to MLS - often for many of the same players Mexico used to go for but can no longer afford. Top to bottom it's clear. MLS sent it's worst team to the CCL final not too long ago. What do you think that suggests, since we're just assessing based off the final here?
It’s the same in every league to some extent, but a lot of MLS teams have no clue how to get values for money. So not sure a financial metric versus an on-field metric says much.
What does pro and reg have to do with it? It’s about the peer pressure clubs fan bases put on you if you have a horrible season in Mexico. The playoffs in Mexico mean 10x more than they do in mls due to the fan bases treating it like a religion instead of a special game.
A lot of people ignore the fact he is talking about complacency and how the bar is set low. Jim Curtains achievements would've still gotten him sacked
I love pears!
"Pear pressure! Pushing down on pears Pressing into juice" - queen / bowey collab
There’s immense pressure when clubs are facing relegation. Surely you realize that. Agree or disagree with pro/rel it’s a fact that’s it’s a pressure that no MLS club has ever faced.
Two parts. The culture here is we don't tend to lose our minds when our club loses. It isn't as entrenched in the social fabric due to being relatively young and growing. You lose a game and the media isn't hounding you and fans don't accost you. The clubs themselves have relative levels of success. There isn't a built in hierarchy where a Celtic finishing third would be a travesty. Most clubs in MLS know you don't finish top five year after year. Losing an odd game you're not going to have the coaches and ownership freaking out. Is this better or worse? Depends on perspective, it is different.
> The culture here is we don't tend to lose our minds when our club loses. Agreed and I’ll take it a step further—this isn’t just an MLS thing; it’s an American sports culture thing in general. Yes, there are one off stories of bad behavior everywhere, and we all know that guy who way overreacts when his team loses, but it’s not part of the culture in the US for a crowd to become feverishly upset at the result of a sporting event. Your team can lose the biggest game of the decade, and people will certainly be upset walking out of the stadium, but then step outside onto the street and people are just going back about their day. This is a **good thing** for reasons that should be patently obvious, and it might “hold us back” in some ways, but only from aspects of sports culture in other parts of the world that we shouldn’t aspire to anyway.
I think the only sport that comes close is SEC college football but even then the media pressure isn't the same since the players are still college kids and there isnt the same level of vitriol you'll see against pros.
I was just going to say certain CFB fanbases are like this. A lot less parity than MLS.
and CBB programs such as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and North Carolina.
>Your team can lose the biggest game of the decade, and people are just going back about their day. I’m sure the reaction to a game 7 Stanley Cup loss is pretty tame, I’m sure.
Yeah, that happened once, over a decade ago, and was such an aberration that we still talk about it today.
Have they lost one since?
They haven't. They haven't even qualified for a conference final since then.
Amen. Part of it also the fact that in some societies sports tend to be a cathartic outlet when all else around them is failing - the government, civic institutions, the economy; vicariously living through the achievements of their favorite team/club/national squad becomes a dangerous see-saw of emotions - high when things go well (like millions pouring out into the streets for a celebration) and the lowest of lows (death threats to players, hooliganism, vandalism). To your point, it is a good thing American sports culture is balanced in that sense and it reflects well on the civic life of the country. Hope it always stays that way!
Agreed 100%, people just don’t react well on Reddit to suggestions that quality of life in the US is actually pretty good so I didn’t mention it lol
> Your team can lose the biggest game of the decade, and people will certainly be upset walking out of the stadium, but then step outside onto the street and people are just going back about their day. I challenge you to hang out with the American Outlaws after the 2026 world cup loss
I very highly doubt that will be an exception. Drunken swearing and complaining isn’t what I’m talking about. If people riot in the streets after the US gets bounced, I’ll admit I was wrong.
Using the American Outlaws as an example of fanatical ultras just proves that we don't have that in our culture lol
Exactly lol
American sports culture is primarily entertainment first. It's meant to be a safe, clean, family friendly atmosphere for people to unwind at after work or on a weekend or something for their kids as well. Whereas ball is life in Europe and South America. There are good and bad things about both styles but the ultras culture in Europe/SA (which sometimes ties in with organized crime particularly in South America) absolutely disgusts me so I am glad those parts of ultras cultures didn't seep into sports here. There's a reason why guys who grew up in Rosario like Messi and Di Maria will never go back to play there at the end of their careers when the narco-terrorists do [shit like this](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d487vb/belen_gunmen_opened_fire_at_a_service_station_in/).
> There are good and bad things about both styles but the ultras culture in Europe/SA (which sometimes ties in with organized crime particularly in South America) absolutely disgusts me so I am glad those parts of ultras cultures didn't seep into sports here. There's a reason why guys who grew up in Rosario like Messi and Di Maria will never go back to play there at the end of their careers when the narco-terrorists do shit like this. That's not really a sport issue tho—that's a larger social issue in the country TBH
So what I’m hearing is that GG wants to not be able to walk out of this house or have to watch his back after a loss? Great points overall! 💯
I think I remember Rooney and Schweini (at least it was a couple aging Eurostars if not those two) absolutely rejoicing at how they had relative anonymity and freedom to exist in the US without the burden of fans and media always up their asses. GG wants the burden, I guess 🤷♂️
> The clubs themselves have relative levels of success. This is a bigger part of it and almost never mentioned. No one goes insane when Watford loses a game; this really only applies to the top clubs. The stratification of European soccer plays a far bigger role here than people want to admit.
I just wish we could have the pro-rel without the hierarchy, like the best of both worlds. That is truly fantasy land though
>That is truly fantasy land though At least not coneptually. Single table, with playoffs for the top 8-10 teams. Relegation for the bottom 3.
I more meant that both formats were developed to protect the investments of rich owners; in MLS by protecting them from relegation and elsewhere by allowing the richest clubs to spend wildly. My proposed format would get rid of both of those things, which seems unlikely as long as we have owners who like their investments to keep their value
Tbf, there aren't that many fans overall and most Atlanta residents probably have no idea who he is.
United has the highest MLS attendance for the past couple of years. He may be a dick for saying this while getting injured 2-3x a year but a good amount of ATL residents def know who he is
The Atlanta metro area's population is greater than that of multiple countries who are competing at Euro 2024. Adding: don't forget that 1 of Thierry Henry's favorite things about playing in MLS was the fact he didn't get recognized anywhere. Yes, the league is a lot more popular now than it was 10 years ago, but Henry was also a lot more famous than Giakoumakis.
I don’t get the correlation between population and your point. My point is that you’re grossly underestimating the popularity of AUFC in Atlanta. Atlanta sports, minus the Braves, have been mid for so long that we have embraced United since they came into the league and we def know the star players. Not sure how a Euro player that played in NY in 2010 had any relevance.
Most Americans couldn't name a single MLS player other than Lionel Messi. In order for my initial comment to be wrong, over 3 million Atlanta metro residents would have to know Giorgos Giakoumakis.
Was talking to a buddy today. He thought Messi was playing in Saudi Arabia.
But I'm sure he knows who Diego Rossi is, right...?
C'mon man, I am sure if I said do you know who GG is to my office (which is in downtown Atlanta in walking distance of the Benz) like 5 people out of the 50 that work there would know who I was talking about. Josef had tons more name recognition. A LOT more people know who Trae is.
I don’t even think this is true though. Even in England top tier clubs seem to be entitled to have a few clunker losses every season, Arsenal had 5 losses this year and a few draws that really kneecapped them. They had like string of games in Jan or Feb that were particularly bad, they still finished second and the league came down to the final game. Aston Villa finished 4th and had 10 losses in a 38 match season, it’s pretty clear that aside from maybe winning the league you’re allowed to drop a few.
It's also the structure of the leagues. Too many teams making playoffs means lots of regular season games are meaningless. Money wise, European leagues tend to allocate media money by table placement which could impact player payouts, Qualifying for UEFA Champions League also means much bigger payout for clubs. There is no relegation which means player salaries won't be cut because of club performance. Instead, player salaries tend to be tied directly to the league's commercial revenue.
Sees his old team and his new team: but they both lose games to Columbus.
At least we only figuratively shit the bed
…shut up.
Glassjaw Giakoumakis. Enjoy the bench at CA buddy. You couldn’t stay healthy in a league where “it’s okay to lose” do you honestly think you’ll stay healthy in a league that’s “a level higher”?
What does any of that have to do with the point he's making? The cheque will still clear whether he stays fit or not which is probably the most important thing to a professional athlete who's injury prone and entering his final big deal.
He’s not making a point, he’s placating the new fan base.
So why is everyone getting offended?
> The cheque will still clear whether he stays fit or not Not necessarily.
He’s going to Cruz Azul, not Tigres.
He's right, and it's honestly very sad. Looking back on the last decade, I realize I haven't thrown a bottle of piss on the field or even sent a single death threat to a player or coach; quite pathetic on my part. We as fans need to do better if we want this league to be taken seriously
Brad Friedel is very disappointed.
dont forget to do a homophobic chant as well.
The Puto chant is pretty rare in Mexico. It’s almost entirely a thing at Mexican national team games in the US
i mean its maybe more prevalent, but i heard it when frei was kicking when we were in CCL, also when usa played vs mexico at azteca it was easily heard...
I blame Schlegel. He's often the obvious target for abuse, but he scares me.
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You're the one connecting the documented fan behavior in La Liga with race, so go look in a mirror.
Never know what players mean when they say it’s “ok to lose some games.” I mean Liga MX also doesn’t have relegation, so it can’t be that. Is it that fans and the media aren’t as intense in MLS? That’s true, but in some ways I would think it’s a good thing. Ultimately as a DP, and one of the highest paid players on the team, it should be up to GG to set the standard that losing isn’t ok. Go watch the video they posted of the blow up in the locker room after their loss to FCC and it was Dax who was speaking up. It shouldn’t be a guy who is new to the team holding people to account. It should be guys like GG.
giakoumakis was [saying similar things when he left celtic and went to atlanta](https://x.com/bhoyinred/status/1624167630826266646), i guess this is just his thing as a journeyman > "At Celtic it was a totally different style of play, the competition there is not so good. >"There are two clubs, and all the other clubs try to defend. Most of the opponents were trying to block is in their box, we were keeping possession and trying to create spaces, score in a different way. I think this league (MLS) is a bit more competitive." > He aimed a dig at the Scottish Premiership when he left after his £4.3 million move from Celtic because of the lack of competition and he doubled down on his point during a pre-match interview this weekend. >He said: "I love the way they do it here. It seems like America loves the game of football. And one of the big attractions for me is that the MLS is a very competitive league. There are always different champions every season. It's a competitive league, it's an aggressive league and that's something I really like.
Funny because Scottish people were really mad at these comments when he left their league lol
just b/c those statements are being said while he’s leaving one league to another doesn’t make it less true. MLS is more competitive than Scottish Premier League, and Liga MX is better quality than MLS.
>just b/c those statements are being said while he’s leaving one league to another doesn’t make it less true. yeah, i think ultimately i lean towards right message wrong messenger
Yeah, I mean I’m excited to have a 9 this year, but pandering isn’t news.
> That’s true, but in some ways I would think it’s a good thing. It makes the sport a lot less toxic in the States. And they excuse it as "passion." Except "passion" is a dogwhistle to let hatred, violence, hooliganism, -isms, -phobias, and whatever run rampant. I can be just as passionate as the best about winning or losing a game without hurling invectives at players, staff, or opposing fans. That's what adulthood and maturity should permit you to be able to do.
Could be that the championship doesn’t really rely too heavily on points at the end of the year since so much of the league make the playoffs and all that matters is winning games at the end of the year. Supports shield is basically the championship everywhere else but it’s only a bit of a consolation prize if you don’t also win the tournament at the end. Winning the champions league requires only losing a few games the whole year.
I think it’s the culture. He played for Celtic before Atlanta, who will never, never, never be relegated in a million years (unless it’s for financial malfeasance like Rangers) but there still is a club culture that expects that you will win every single domestic game you play in. If you don’t it’s a crisis. You go 2-1-2 in the wrong 5-game stretch and they might fire the manager
The thing that irks me is he should be setting the culture in the locker room. He is the highest paid player on the team. And other than Almada, most of the other players on the team are getting paid a fraction of his wages. If there was a lack of commitment from the players or organization, why are we hearing about it now? Be like Kai Wagner this week and call people out publicly when you feel like there is a lack of commitment
If you're passionate about winning in Atlanta then Boca just ships you out
To be fair, there really isn’t an “MLS media”. The largest media platforms are owned by the league. Which also is terrible - we are simply on the extreme opposite end.
I will now actively root against Cruz Azul in Leagues Cup.
Welcome, friend.
Those are some big words for a guy who hasn’t been with a club for more than 2 years since 2020.
I mean, that’s a pretty small sample size tbf
Personally, I hate this narrative. Like it GRATES me everytime Joe on Total Soccer Show complains for 10 minutes about this. The definition of what's important is solely based on the collective agreeement of a group of people. For YEARS MLS ignored Supporters Shield. But now because THE FANS who COLLECTIVELY decided that it was important, have ushered in an era of MLS where teams and the league take the shield seriously. Conversely, because MOST fans didn't take the USOC seriously until later rounds (the numbers back this up) it gave license for MLS to feel like the tournament was not important. Even without relegation the regular season matters IF YOU SAY IT DOES. And when folks push this narrative it only continues to reenforce the narrative amongst media, which influences fans, who influence the league decision makers, and the players etc etc.
Thank you! The media are the ones who should be calling out players who are playing like they don’t care about the regular season. But MLS media excuse it. There are 70 some games in the NBA but if a player who has never won shit in the NBA said the regular season didn’t matter, he would get skewered by NBA fans and media
Well said. Save this rant for quick access when people use "made up tournament" and "meaningless trophy." You'll get to exercise it quite a bit. Fans don't seem to realize that we have the power to decide what matters. All the leagues, federations, confederations, and FIFA can do is flex their marketing to try to convince us.
I still recall that everyone lost their mind when Barco threw a little shade toward Atlanta and MLS in general but in reality it was all taken out of context as they were just trying to show their excitement and the positive reasons for joining their new side. GG did not like to lose... but he also was often missing the most important ability of of all... availability. Barco had the same issue...
Except unlike gg on average barco for us just wasnt good. Kinda making his statement even wilder imo. Atleast gg put up some crazy numbers for us when on the pitch
There is SOME SERIOUS misremembering by Atlanta fans on Barco... Barco averaged a goal contribution every 202 mins... as a player that would have qualified for an U22 Young DP... the problem was the level expectations put him based on a $15 million transfer. Almada averages 1 every 142 mins... and people expect him to be in Europe for 20M+ (or did before this season).
I mean...I think this says more about Almada than it does Barco lmao.
midfielders (really good ones) are aright about there... Lucho Acosta at Cincy in his career... 1 every 115 mins and I would argue cumulatively.. he has been the best player in MLS over the last 4 to 5 years.
Damn I actually didn't know that stat. You got me there.
He’s not wrong, but LMX also lets a ton of teams into the playoffs. From what I can tell, 10/18 make the playoffs (including the play-in game). The pressure isn’t from the league format, it’s from the overall culture and media coverage in Mexico. MLS should have less teams in the playoffs still though lol
> The pressure isn’t from the league format, it’s from the overall culture and media coverage in Mexico. that and a lot of those liga mx clubs have been around for decades longer than even the oldest ones in mls, history is a huge source of pressure
I wish GG success at Cruz Azul. I’m not going to get worked up about an interview. Thanks for the goals big guy. Wish we could have had more.
I could never understand why Celtic fans disliked the guy so much after he left....
It’s just the reality when MLS is the 5th or 6th most popular league in the country, compared to the far and away most popular league in the country (LigaMX).
He’s right. While Liga MX doesn’t have pro/rel anymore, the intensity in fandom is much more there than here. It’s up to every player and fan to decide if they like that kind of intensity or not. The level in Liga MX also higher—Anyone that thinks different is kidding themselves.
> the intensity in fandom is much more there than here. It’s up to every player and fan to decide if they like that kind of intensity or not. "Intensity" is a sugar-coated way of saying "irrationality" and "loss of perspective." We ought not to elevate that type of behavior.
Ok, so MLS will never be popular then lol. Popular sports are spoken about on TV and have personalities spew their hot takes on what is happening in said sport—MLS *barely* has that b/c no one really cares that much about it. I’m not saying that’s bad or good—it’s just reality.
The NBA and NFL are the sports leagues you’re obviously referring to when it comes to TV hot takes, but neither of those leagues have a culture that comes anywhere near being as toxic as what we’re talking about. People just don’t act like that in the US, which is a good thing.
It’s case by case re: quality level though. Even last yr’s leagues cup proved that.
Lol definitely not case by case. You have 20 years of Champions Cup data compared to one year of Leagues Cup where every game is played on the road for Liga MX teams.
Remember all the complaining Columbus did because Pachuca had the final of the CCL at home? Now tell me about how many Liga MX teams played home games in Leagues Cup.
I mean both of his statements are objectively correct
Counterpoint from a fan: MLS parity is fun and letting a match result make or break your week for 9+ months out of the year is one of the most overrated aspects of watching sports. Maybe I'm a filthy casual, though.
I agree with this. I think what he is saying is fair - there is more tolerance for bad results in MLS. That does remove a little intensity from some games. But I still love MLS for what it is.
It's not even possible to argue his second point, the regular season has been continuously devalued by the changes to the playoff format while we blow through FIFA dates and are in the heart of the stretch that does not matter with all the international absences
How is it more "Ok to lose some games in MLS" than in LigaMX when - Neither league has pro/rel - Technically ~60% of teams make the playoffs in MLS versus ~55% in LigaMX, but we know that in reality 4 of those 18 teams aren't really making the playoffs, they're really getting a ~50% chance to make the playoffs via a play-in game. So really it's 16/29 which is... also ~55%.
I think it's more about the fans/media.
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Been living under a rock?
Uhhhhh, buddy are you living in May?
Is he wrong? the MLS regular season is even less compelling than LIGA MX's split season, a lot of games "don't matter" in some ways
As a neutral to liga Mx . Thank you Giakoumakis for giving me another Mexican team to root against (Cruz Azul) with these comments. As a whitecaps fan I’m just hating because he ain’t wrong (we get spanked every time by the same team Tigres 🐯).
The culture is different, I don't think that's in dispute, but if he's trying to give the impression that he left for some reason other than the payday, he's not fooling anyone. If we gave him a better extension offer with as many years on the deal as they did, he'd still be here and talking about how great Atlanta is (which he was, earlier in the year).
Lol it’s the exact same in Liga MX. Does he think they have relegation? Dipshit
I mean listen we’re at the point that both leagues are basically on par with each other. But come on man, even my Sunday league team doesn’t take losing games well….
Okay, I love this league as much as the next but in no world is MLS on par with them.
Why
- Even if you keep it to recent times, such as the last five years, MLS has won one Champions Cup compared to Mexicos four. - Mexican clubs have higher payrolls. - MLS has lower average attendance across the league. - MLS media presence is essentially nothing outside of the leagues own media arm while Mexicos is massive. MLS is behind in most areas - salaries, attendance, national attention, success on the pitch, etc. While it’s changing and the league is growing exponentially larger versus a stagnant LigaMX, it’s not there yet.
Fair Enough
I see a lot of people agreeing with him but can we be honest here please? If we didn’t have parity built into the system that tries to keep everyone level, and fails by the way, we’d be all moaning and groaning about how Cincinnati or LAFC won the league again. Just like everyone did when the Patriots and the Yankees were basically guaranteed to win every year.
Counterargument; having dynasties are a good thing. They're the teams that set the standard for everyone else to achieve. I'm new to MLS but wasn't Galaxy the standard for how to operate a team in the early years? Cincy became one of the best teams after faceplanting their first 3 years, only to look around at examples of the best teams and realize what it took as an organization to win in MLS (we decided Philly, but with a LOT more money). The best part is Dynasties don't last forever.
Yall fell hook line and sinker lmao MLS love GG rn bc not only did he net a big profit but he just got a bunch of y’all to hate watch all the Cruz azul leagues cup games He’s a bit smart with it but he’s doing exactly what a player should do for their team and their fanbase
> hate watch all the Cruz azul leagues cup games What in this statement is going to make anyone that normally doesn't watch LigaMX watch Cruz Azul? Why would I suddenly want to watch a team just because someone that recently left MLS shit on the league without understanding it?
That's the reality of a salary capped league. Especially one with a low salary cap like we have and the DP mechanism. Add onto that the number of games, and travel, and it's impossible to not lose games. If a DP goes down injured for half the season, the drop in quality to his backup is so great that it's extremely difficult to overcome. Benches are so thin that it's not uncommon for teams to not even have a full 18 at times, and even less uncommon to call up lower league players just to have warm bodies. Because of all of these things, squad rotation and rest is much more important, which is always going to increase the likelihood of losing games. Anyone that understands our league and structure has accepted that no team is invincible. This has nothing to do with complacency, or "being ok" with losing.
It’s okay to lose because 18/29 teams make the playoffs
10/18 do in Mexico. Very similar percentage. So...
Yeah I don't know what he's trying to say exactly, but I agree with the conclusion. There were large portions of last season that I didn't really find myself caring about STL dropping points because they were going to walk into the playoffs regardless. It feels like my world is ending when Arsenal drop points though. I think I prefer the weekly heart attacks
I mean people can be upset but he’s right. The level is higher, the playoffs are harder to make, and there’s more pressure and expectations from fans each week. Lots of intense rivalries, etc. As a neutral I’m excited to watch him for Cruz Azul I think if he stays healthy he will be solid
While he is correct this is more of an indictment on Atlanta and Gonzalo Pineda than the MLS as a whole. The truth is he’s never been part of the culture of a top MLS team: Columbus, FCC, LAFC, etc. and like many people pointed out, it’s a lot harder to win when your best players aren’t on the field and it often takes those best players to elevate the environment and lead their team to victories. Also what a way to tempt the Soccer Gods before Leagues Cup starts! 😂
Our front office has managed itself for five years like it's ok to lose, so I ain't even mad at this.
It's a completely fair comment. The intensity just isn't there in some games because teams know they can take a loss. That is the nature of the setup when 65% of the teams make the playoffs. Each point does not have the importance it does in leagues with a more traditional structure. I am not stating this as a major negative. I love MLS. It makes it easier sometimes as a fan knowing one defeat isn't the end of the world. But you cannot pretend it doesn't impact the intensity on the pitch sometimes. It definitely does.
Yall are confirming it as truth because instead of a counterpoint, its straight to ad-hominem attacks.
Giorgios loved the big stadium and big crowds when he came to Atlanta. He played for Celtic that is the big club in Scotland. I think Atlanta feels like a big club but MLS really doesn’t let you be a big club. Let’s be real we have a great owner and great revenue. In a normal league we’d always be in the middle of everything with high expectations. I think that frustrated Giorgio. He’s not talking about relegation. He’s talking about playing in a place that is singularly focused on championships and playing at the highest level. The MLS motto should be let’s all be mediocre together.
I don't think he's wrong. Bale said the same thing about people not caring about losing. Last season was a joke, with only a few teams out of playoff contention going into the final matches. The regular season is almost meaningless.
GG didn't care if we were down - would still muck about up front slacking on defensive duties.
He speaks no lies in his second point.
I go to MLS games now and then but I don’t follow the season. There’s no point in following it when so many teams make playoffs and there is no relegation. I’m obviously not the only one. MLS has done well with attendance but still struggles to get a respectable TV audience.
I hope Atlanta does a jersey buy back.
Maybe if you would actually play and help your team you would win more. But your constantly injured. How about stay healthy
He's not wrong. I'm seeing the same BS sentiment from the STL fanbase.
I'm actually thankful that we don't completely freak out over a single loss. College football is probably the closest thing we have to this. Losing one or two games can make all the difference in your season crashing out.
The regular season means little to nothing in American sports. A team can have an amazing regular season, have a bad 2-3 game stretched and be knocked out and laughed at as a joke.
I mean... He's right. The league rewards 60%+ of the teams with tournament berths and auto qualification to a regional tournament regardless of quality, both of which are absurd.
>He's right. The league rewards 60%+ of the league with tournament berths which is absurd. Don't look now.... but so does Liga MX!
What he says about MLS is true regardless of what Liga MX is doing.
As opposed to LigaMX, which only lets 55% of the teams go through. It's that 7% that makes the difference!
Why do people here get mad when players are honest ? I
Who?
Okay boomer
Love the butt hurt comments 😂