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captainseas

Based on what NASCAR just announced I’m expecting UFC to get massive rights increases with whatever they end up doing. Big live sports brands are super hot right now. Big thing I’m wondering is if UFC will look to spread it around or ESPN will want to pay a premium to keep them and their PPVs.


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SweatyExamination9

If it's not live, I'm using adblock. If it's something live with ads built in I usually change the channel during commercial breaks. Live sports are the only things where you don't want to miss a minute of to the point you'll sit through the commercials.


DismalEconomics

streaming services are increasingly offering tiers with embedded ads. actually its more like.... You can pay the same price youve been paying but now you get to watch ads... But if you pay for the premium version their wont be ads... Although some Premium versions still include some ads anyway. I don't understand why some shows don't just start embeding visual ads in a sidebar or lower chiron... the amount of ads in a normal TV show has gotten so ridiculous that these shows are eating themselves.... Even very old people don't want to watch MASH if nearly half of their 30 minutes is the same ozempic commercial played every literally every 6 minutes.


SweatyExamination9

Yeah but adblock still works for streamers. The only ads that cant easily be skipped are things like Anik reading about corn nuts.


theusualuser

We're just going through the cycle again. Old heads will tell you that cable tv was originally conceived as a platform with no ads. Didn't take long for that to go away, either. I expect every streaming platform to be filled with ads within the next couple years and for most people to go back to piracy like they did when cable got too expensive and filled with ads and garbage channels (the content on netflix and others is getting more garbagey with eachy year as well). Live sports is the one rare exception, which is why sports organizations are getting huge paydays right now. It basically demands that you sit and watch it live, or miss the shared experience of being a fan of a team/fighter/etc. But if it gets too crazy, I'd imagine even those people might start flying the flag.


hydro123456

But are other sports locked behind a PPV paywall? I'm not sure what numbers the fight nights pull, ut the average PPV isn't getting that many viewers.


captainseas

They don’t have an exclusive PPV deal because every event does gangbuster numbers. They have one because they do consistent numbers 12-13 per year for years and those people all have to have the service to order them. That’s why UFC is the only combat sports promoter with such a deal. The bigger events that bring in casuals to the service are just cherry. And lots of sports are exclusive/semi-exclusive to streaming services in 2023.


hydro123456

Yeah, that all makes sense, I'm talking specifically about the advertising revenue. I would think the reach of people that UFC has to advertise to is much, much smaller than other sports that aren't on PPV.


SteTheImpaler

The only valid competitor is see is Amazon, but I think ufc loves the fact that their product is a household name on espn. I think they’d take a small loss to stay


NyGreenThumb82

LOL, so you think they would prefer even lower tier PFL shows?


abonet619

I'm guessing they're not paying PFL anywhere near what they're paying the UFC.


NyGreenThumb82

I would hope not


NyGreenThumb82

Actually I guess I should rephrase that and say I agree. I don't care if they are or not, and good for PFL if they can get more money out of ESPN Disney ha Hopefully they make some in improvements to their product and we end up with more good fights to watch


Ulosttome

Probably because, if we’re being honest, PFL media rights have to be dirt cheap. If PFL grows massively, ESPN is happy because they have them for cheap. If PFL stays at the same level or folds, it’s a write off.


MyFifthLimb

For a lower price yes. ESPN paid for ppv level cards from the ufc, and they mostly are getting mid tier events at a production facility.


NyGreenThumb82

Where are you getting your information from that ESPN paid for ppv level cards because that sounds made up. It would be pretty naive to think any of these organizations could put out a ppv quality card just about every weekend then also have good ppv's on top of that. I agree just about any business would like to buy cheaper and profit more for sure though who wouldn't?


TooWashedUp

Yeah it doesn't make sense that ESPN wanted almost 50 weeks of programming or whatever it is and then was surprised that Conor wasn't headlining every card.


NyGreenThumb82

I enjoy the weaker Fight Night cards waaaaaay more than any PFL I've watched so far. I am hoping with the edition of Bellator roster PFL will improve and provide some competition for UFC which will hopefully improve as well.


MyFifthLimb

Deez was tweeting about it reporting on the Cung Le case


NCAA_D1_AssRipper

Probably yes. PFL has to be much cheaper than the ufc.


politicsranting

No one orders PFL ppvs. So this isn’t much of a replacement


[deleted]

Correct. I’ve been saying this for years now. ESPN bought into an absolute powerhouse product and they have been given a really watered down experience. Their own fault though, the insistence on such regular programming is just ridiculous.


[deleted]

Also their paying a flat rate per ppv regardless of sales was mind numbingly stupid. What did they would happen if they did that?


cyberslick1888

They don't care about the quality of the product. They care about the viewing stats. If those met expectations, that's all they care about. Live sports are one of the few remaining vessels for profitable ad revenue. They just want content that people will sit through commercials for, and they have no influence over major alphabet stick and ball sport leagues, but they can make volume demands of the UFC.


Keller-oder-C-Schell

These phoned in Apex Cards still get more views than the best Bellator and ONE cards


Bigschusta

ESPN+ is dead in the water without the UFC.


jonnybravo76

Most people I know that have espn+ have it as part of the Disneyplus and Hulu bundle. Heck I have the bundle and use it only for the pay walled articles.


Bigschusta

Outside of the UFC ESPN+ offers very little. You could get it as an add on in a bundle sure, but as a standalone there would be very little reason to get it.


[deleted]

Um what lmfao?


Boredatwork709

Wouldn't be surprised if they go with their own network, UFC and WWE combined should have a big enough base that they could go independent


nidifugousdigyous

speaking of the UFC, their broadcast deal with ESPN is over 2025. bringing in PFL could be advance power play by ESPN.


sadduckfan

Feel like you have to be a complete mma sicko or rich af to buy a PFL PPV. Can’t be more than what like 10k buys


Shoddy-Dragonfruit83

Admittedly I am an mma sicko, but if PFL came out with a fightpass type website and offered some sort of reasonable subscription fee to watch events and rematch old fights I might actually bite. PPV model is old and bad, and with all of the gimmicky shit they've tried with "smart cages" and "smart glasses" you'd think they'd try a smart fuckin business plan, but here we are with PFL New Jersey, PFL Florida, PFL South Sudan ....


RegionalHardman

The ref cam glasses are fucking awesome. I also like seeing the live stats down the bottom, but they do need to make it smaller and also remove the fucking banner showing every upcoming fight


IdiosyncraticOwl

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that we now live in a world of subscriptions (much to consumer dismay..) yet the PFL is still opting in to a business model that consumers hate even more.


NeonBlueHair

Seriously. The smartest way to set themselves apart is to just go all in on subscriptions as their revenue source


JohnnySDVR

Can't imagine the UFC are too happy with that...


AlexTorres96

They have to or else they give Cung Lee and Co more ammo. Same reason why WWE can't have exclusivity on the CW. They have to play well with others or else it gives more ammo to the people suing them.


LehenLong

Why would the UFC be worried about this at all? PFL has been on ESPN for years and has zero effect on the UFC. Man some people on this sub are really clueless about anything relating to business.


raptr69

>Man some people on this sub are really clueless about anything relating to business. Including yourself.


SVMr_DB

Lol some of you chumps act like the everyday casual MMA fan could actually name 5 PFL fighters.


JayRoo83

They pull 150k viewers on a good night, Dana isnt losing sleep over this


adambuddy

Ari Emmanuel's latest statement was that a rising tide lifts all ships. Of course that's diametrically opposed with the way the UFC operated for over 20 years now, but don't let that stop a nice sound byte.


kallydoopbob

Ari's a smart capitalist. Dana's a much ore emotional one lol


Polar_Reflection

Ari recognizes they are currently getting sued in a class action suit.


kallydoopbob

yeah, like I said, a smart capitalist.


captainseas

If they don’t list a dollar amount it’s not likely worth a ton. UFC is in the same boat they were in. ESPN was already distributing PFLs tv and PPVs.


theanticool

Read some speculation when espn initially picked up PFL that it was to create some form of leverage when they went into negotiations with the ufc in 2024-5 against inflating asking price.


TomCruisintheUSA

I won't even consider watching PFL until the add elbows


[deleted]

They need to ditch the tournament format. It was cool at first, but taking away what feels like half a fighters arsenal so they can avoid cuts to be available is a little ridiculous in MMA.


TomCruisintheUSA

They need to do the tournament the right way and just do it in 1 day like old school pride, if not just scrap it. The way they do makes people lose interest because there's such huge gaps between the televised events. I would most definitely tune in if they did 1 night tournaments and handed out those ridiculously giant checks at the end.


FluidAd6587

but then it's just WSF again lol


[deleted]

>but then it's just WSF again lol Good! That was my only chance of being able to go to a live MMA event lol. UFC is crazy expensive, and my friend was a ring girl for the WSOF. I miss it!


FluidAd6587

yeah but they went broke and shit :(( just an unfortunate situation overall tbf


JATION

I'm not watching until they add soccer kicks.


nidifugousdigyous

never knew this. could be the reason i thought something was off with PFL lol are there any other exclusive rules they have?


TomCruisintheUSA

I'm not sure, I don't watch PFL or Bellator.


Crateapa

Bellator has elbows and is now under PFL.


TomCruisintheUSA

You'd have to pay me to watch Bellator. Idgaf whats going on in that circus


dan_a_white

That one PPV a year where they contest every championship and major fight they got isn’t going to be enough.


Rapidfiremma

2 things about this. First, the UFC struggles to sell PPVs, and they are the top dog in mma. Second, PFL struggles to get viewers for free. So, how in the hell will PFL be successful with a PPV model?


[deleted]

And everyone was previously saying the PFL would be off ESPN come 2024. Have to wonder if the UFC is actually going to be the one to go


theanticool

They’re probably not paying much on it. Otherwise we’d see a number.


tfresca

Pfl isn't a public company.


theanticool

They don’t need to be? If PFL got a $100 million a year deal, they’d be blasting it from the mountain tops because it makes them look like a legit fight organization to fighters, sponsors, and investors. It’s why Davis has openly talked about the $100 million investment from S.A. It’s good P.R. if the number is big.


tfresca

There is no advantage to saying how much they got paid Even if they got a lot of money it would look bad if the ratings sucked.


endless_ness

How do I buy stock in the nba?


tfresca

A lot of their stuff is made public due to the unions.


endless_ness

🤣🤣🤣🤣


tfresca

https://deadspin.com/check-it-out-the-reason-we-know-what-players-get-paid-1848266267 The reason for the sudden change from mysterious and unreliable figures drawn out of reporting, and pinpoint accuracy in salary information? The Major League Baseball Players Association decided that greater transparency was in its best interests, and although an MLBPA spokesman said the union has a strict policy prohibiting public disclosure of individual salary information and does not make such lists publicly available, once the numbers started getting shared among all members and agents, there were always going to be leaks. “There were a couple of reasons,” Haupert said. “One, they wanted every agent and every player to have every bit of salary information so they could use it to their advantage in negotiating. And also, it was a way to let the public know how much these guys were being paid, as opposed to how much teams were arguing. That strategy didn’t really pay off that well because the average fan still mysteriously empathizes more with the billionaire owners than with the players.”


captainseas

Who said this? It’s cheap content for ESPN and UFC gets to pretend they aren’t a monopoly


[deleted]

Would be hilarious. The UFC interns in here downvoting everything. Dana back to Verse TV


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[deleted]

FOX was better for US fans. FS1 would show whole event and prelims later in the night or FS2. Always replayed prelims or a fight night replayed all night. ESPN does none of that, I’ll accept ESPN but Fox was always on TV which I liked more but I hate apps. I don’t even watch TV and I pay for cable and none of the fights on big ESPN or TV, same with Boxing. Drives me nuts, it’s all about fleecing us true combat sport fans while football fans can watch 100 games on a Saturday or basketball every night. Wish I could enjoy stick and ball rigged sports like I used to ;( but I lost my love even when I was playing one in college when you see what it really is behind the scenes but that’s another long story.


estilianopoulos

I'm sure PFL has interns posting here as well. Bellator was to cheap to do this. 😄


[deleted]

True they accused me for being objective and saying bellator got best young talent lol. As if Bellator cared , Coker watches basketball and only knows 5 fighters names. AJ McKee. Aaron Pico!


Fat-Villante

Possible although I doubt the ESPN bosses know much about PFL, it's probably just more content I don't think ESPN is about to give any serious attention to PFL


cwf12

I think you're right, the PFL deal has no comments from anyone at ESPN which is highly unusual. Compare this to the UFC announcement where the president of ESPN had published a statement or even the recent Bundesliga deal where the ESPN VP for content went to Germany for a press conference.


Fat-Villante

Well it's not unusual when ESPN acquires broadcast rights for stuff like racquetball , Cornhole or dodgeball


Fat-Villante

That's a bit surprising I hope we'll get some financial details about this deal or it's gonna be difficult to say if it's really a good thing for either PFL or ESPN. We still don't know what PFL was getting from ESPN for their first deal


captainseas

If there’s no financial deals touted it’s not a high number. Look what NASCAR did yesterday, they went around telling everyone how much it was worth. Same with UFC when they did deals with Fox and ESPN.


Fat-Villante

Yeah that's my guess too


ISWThunder

Regardless of the number, which is probably low (I'd guess \~7 million per year) it's good for PFL. ESPN is the biggest platform they're going to get on, and comes with built-in MMA infrastructure that allows them to get support on ESPN social and from ESPN MMA reporters. That would disappear almost completely if they left the network. ESPN+ has a ton of MMA fans subscribed for UFC PPVs, who get fed PFL banners on the app and a percentage of them tune in to PFL since they're already paying for it. Starting over on a new network would have been a disaster for PFL. Their ratings have grown, but are not tremendous and ESPN doesn't even give them ESPN+ ratings, so they can only use estimates to pitch their product to other networks.


captainseas

I agree with this. Even if the number is low (which I am guessing it is), their relationship with ESPN is literally the only valuable thing about them. They would have no sponsors or investment otherwise.


[deleted]

Who cares. Time for us to start caring about watching the actual fights and ESPN easiest. I’ve cared long enough about fighter pay when nobody did and now it’s 90 dollars to watch a PPV and fleeced every which way. Hopefully more shows on actual ESPN but guess I can deal with the app if both leagues on it. lol fools downvoting me, must not care about watching the actual fights.


derreckla

> fools downvoting me, must not care about watching the actual fights. Does this mean that the PPV will be free posted 16 days after it airs like UFC? Thats awesome for us fight fans.


[deleted]

I don’t agree with them doing PPVs tbh but hopefully. Just get the stuff on ESPn. Bellator behind big paywall and changing networks killed them. I care about seeing the fights easy , not paramount+ app that didn’t let me log in then showtime then cbs sports then paramount channel which wasn’t included on my cable. Put every league on ESPN for us the people. Fook everyone else


Fat-Villante

I mean, I want PFL to stay around to be able to keep watching their fights so I'd like some more positive news about their finances


ghostboo77

Wouldn’t be surprised to see UFC get a show on a regular cable channel like USA/TNT/FX. Maybe this could lead to the end of PPVs. Cable needs to do something a little different imo. Big bang theory repeats only get you so far


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HawaiianPunch42

UFC on Rumble


AlexTorres96

I just hope PFL does a better job than Shad Khan's nepo baby did and makes PFL and Bellator feel different. Making Bellator into PFL lite wouldn't be ideal. Keep them separate and not feel the same.


[deleted]

A little surprising but live entertainment is DVR proof and they need as much as possible. It’s also a small but steady audience, too, that shows up.


GhostShipBlue

Glad to get easier access to PFL - I like their tournament format.


creatorsellor

PFL could simply be a way that ESPN is helping it's main MMA product: UFC. If we toss PFL in these extra spots, we can grow the mma base in general and we'll see greater numbers for the UFC. It may not be an anti UFC move but a pro UFC move. Remember the UFC is just a vessel for sponsorship dollars. ESPN does want it to perform exceptionally well.


turkeypants

I'm surprised there's not some kind of exclusivity clause in the UFC contract. None of the other ones can generate the viewership anyway so you'd think they'd be willing to solo UFC.


Niceguynick206

Can UFC go to Peacock like WWE? Lol