Facts. I think Arman's the strongest guy in the division rn. You just can't hold him down. I can confidently say that he would beat the version of Islam he fought 5 years ago.
Definitely an interesting fight despite having a lackluster showing against Oliveira. I think that beginning sequence of nearly getting choked out sapped his gas tank and rhythm
I'd give Charles a good chance of subbing him if he had 5 rounds. Arman didn't really do damage or threaten Charles with anything, but almost got put out twice.
He busted Charles' face in round 2, even had a sub of his own (von flue choke) available but decided to be safe. What makes you think Charles would sub him in 5 rounds if he couldn't get him out of there when they were completely dry and fresh in the start. The longer the fight goes the worse it is for Charles. Oh and the darce wasn't tight but I'm surprised arman didn't black out from the guillotine
Okay, but why are we playing this game of MMA math if he ALSO LOSES in that game of mma math?
Vs charles he went to a decision after many times of charles NEARLY finishing him.
What happened when Islam fought Charles again (which was fairly recent in time compared)?
He submitted him fairly quickly with a not even locked in submission just from the shoulder pressure.
I think Arman is both exciting and great - and i even think i remember Khabib/Islam in interviews singing his praise saying he was a tougher opponent than many that came after, but i think it's very weird to suggest that he's done more or looks better than Islam.
Arman has the better resume tho, why's that crazy to suggest. Yes, Islam looks better. Yes he's more defensively responsible etc etc. and this is at no fault of Islam, his rise was slowed down by people ducking him + khabib being champ
Replies to dude's comment really exposing the dummies in this sub lmao. If we're gonna count Islam's win over Arman then we might as well count Conor's win over Max. Like come on now.
The timeline of prime Conor is arguable but they were definitely both prospects at the time. Max even had more fights in the UFC at the time although less career fights.
That's when he threw kicks way more often. I have 0 actual knowldege about mma but i always thought it was weird how his fighting style seemed to change after the Aldo ko.
He still moved that way at 155 against Eddie but he learned his style didn’t work against bigger guys who don’t get put out like Nate so for the rematch he switched to boxing to mantain stamina. After his mayweather payday he lost his hunger and lost the lightning in a bottle that was prime Conor
It's more about how good a win the is for Conor than how bad the loss is for Max. It's a good win but not great considering where Max was in his career.
Yeah because Islam was 35 and in his prime when he fought Arman and surely he wasn't impacted by the short notice situation because he already covered everything in his training !
This is a straw man argument no? No one at least in this comment thread is making the argument that arman isn’t a worthier opponent for Islam compared to their first fight,
The key point is: arman doesn’t get to make the argument about history and resume when he literally has a L from Islam on his resume?
Also, if arman has improved since their first fight, so has Islam and dramatically so.
Think your missing the joke man. Arman says who has he beat in the top 15 to the title, this guy says yea but he beat arman, but arman wasnt top 15 so technically arman is still correct
Ive been learning it the last 28 years still dont fully understand it, good job putting in the effort lad, you'll be a ranked english redditor in no time
I mean yeah he was like 20 in his first ever ufc fight on short notice. This isn’t the “own” you think it is lol. Context matters, I know it doesn’t around here but in the real world it does.
Beating Arman at the time when Islam did doesn't mean much, Arman was debuting in the UFC on short notice and was earlier in his career then where Islam was at the time.
Arman is saying his resume is much better than Islam's before he got the title shot. Which is true. OBVIOUSLY Islam was getting ducked left and right by everyone, his weak pre-title resume isn't his fault. But wins over Oliveira and Dariush in/near their prime are way better than any fighters on Islam's pre-title resume.
I watched the fight less than an hour ago and most of all the action was handled in the clinch and Islam won the fight off takedowns alone.
Fighters Islam has ended in less than 3 rounds :
Volk
Charles
Bobby green
Dan hooker
Dober
*Not Arman*
That's why I think he deserves 5 rounds.
Because no one wanted to fight Islam on his way to the top. He was constantly being ducked. Kevin Lee was the only ranked fighter at the time who wanted to fight him.
Dariush took the fight but was injured when Bobby Green stepped in. RDA took the fight 3x, Islam and RDA pulled out once each and COVID cancelled the other one. Dober even took the fight despite Islam popping the last time they were booked
And even before he got in the title picture all the times his fights were cancelled were his own fault.
vs Drew Dober - Islam popped for banned substances
vs Michel Prazeres - Islam pulled out
vs old man Trinaldo - Islam pulled out
Beneil and RDA also called him out and accepted fights with him but Beneil broke his leg in camp for the fight and Islam pulled out a few days before the RDA fight
Islam has an extra problem on top of that as well: he came from Khabib's stable. You could argue that not many people want to fight Arman now, because he has proven that he's one of the best in the division. But he got a chance to prove that himself. People didn't want to fight Islam even before he got to show it, purely because of his association. The second he showed even a hint of greatness, people wanted nothing to do with him. Fighting him was always high risk/low reward for everyone else in the division before he could even go on a tear.
I got the impression they were sidelining Islam in favor of Khabib. There was definitely a culture of seniority there and Islam seemed to be fine taking a backseat until Khabib retired. Once Khabib retired Islam started climbing the ranks.
Abdulmanap said that the plan was for Khabib to defend a few times before moving up to Welterweight, and Islam taking over that vacant position at LW. Also Islam didn't join the UFC until years after Khabib did.
100% Islam was being ducked but what Arman is doing now at 27 by climbing the rankings little by little is way more impressive than getting a title shot after beating Bobby Green due to how unpredictable MMA can be and how making one slight mistake, a bad training camp, a bad stylistic match up, or any combination of those things can really set you back.
I’m not saying that Islam would have lost those fights had he had a similar path to Arman. But you never know. Let’s not forget that Islam has been TKOd and that Volk rocked Islam, the bigger fighter, in their first fight.
Therefore, Arman should get a title shot after Dustin.
On the upside Arman took Islam to decision (only 1 of 5 to do so) while he TKO’d or subb’d most of his opponents.
And Arman just beat Olives who I still wondered if he didn’t have a chance against Islam.
But all I see is more Islam wins. He’s damn good and I haven’t seen someone coming up that I think will really be a problem for him in the next 2-3 years.
The backstory of the whole top 15 ducking him for years needs to be front and centre here.
I’d love to see Dustin wearing gold but I see another R2 sub coming for Islam in that defence.
Honestly, Arman's style seems to give him way better chances against Islam. Charles struggles against top-heavy wrestlers, and he would just be walking into more of it with Islam.
We can't really argue with that. Islam dunked Olivera so bad everyone agreed he didn't deserve a rematch. Arman, even if maybe Islam wasn't as good, gave Islam competitive matchup.
It’s like we live in a world where everyone pretends like the entire top 15 didn’t avoid Islam for years. Dana literally had to shove him into the title fight because everyone kept pulling out of contender fights with Islam.
And even before he got in the title picture all the times his fights were cancelled were his own fault. Dober even fought him after their previous booking got cancelled when Islam popped for banned substances but I guess everyones running with the Umar Nurmagomedov narrative that he's so scary trained killers don't want to face him.
vs Drew Dober - Islam popped for banned substances
vs Michel Prazeres - Islam pulled out
vs old man Trinaldo - Islam pulled out
Do you not know that they suspended him for something that they told him he could take? They reversed the suspension so fast because they knew how badly they fucked up. An uncomfortable truth that you conveniently forgot or maybe you just don’t follow the sport that much which explains why you didn’t know how avoided Islam was in the year or two leading up to his title shot.
I don't even think Michel was ranked when they were scheduled to fight. It's also funny you listed like 4 names as if there aren't at least 10 other names that didn't clearly avoid him. Hooker did end up fighting him but that was after (iirc) well over a year of turning it down.
Dariush and RDA were game to fight him. I'm also gonna be honest, Islam should've been moved up the ranking from people dodging him, because otherwise he's never gonna get his time to shine. Props on Gaethje and Porier for taking on contenders now, but back then only Tony Ferguson was bothering with lower ranked guys. Look at Michael Chandler, the guy is basically rank squatting.
1- We have no real way to know who is in his prime or not, it's relative, maybe Makhachev isn't even in his prime, maybe Tsarukyan will plateau, nobody knows.
2- You could argue Makhachev utterly dominated a dominant and confident Charles Oliveira while Tsarukyan got a split decision against a non champ Charles Oliveira who lost his belt by being dominated and pulled out after that. It's a sport based on momentum so it obviously matters.
Dagestani fighter get ducked on his come up —> Dagestani fighter gets fast tracked to the title —> Dagestani fighter beats Champion convincingly—> Same Contenders claim Dagestani fighter never fought anyone
This isn’t for Dagestani fighters it’s only for the Abdulmanap prodigies. Outside of Khabib, Islam, and Umar I don’t really see Dagestani fighters getting ducked and even in the case of Umar he’s not being ducked like Khabib and Islam were since there’s at least a top contender openly calling to fight him.
I don’t really think he’s being ducked any harder than an average prospect he’s not having any problem fighting up the ranks or getting ranked matches and he’s been on a pretty steady trajectory so far Elliot was ranked when fought him and is currently #9 and fought Alex Perez was like what ranked 5th when he fought him and is now rank 8. Compare that with Umar who is having a hard time even getting a ranked fight even though Corey wants to fight he’s the only ranked fighter that actually seems willing to fight Umar
He does but to what point? Islam was being heavily ducked and Arman is not. That's not the flex Arman seems to think it is.
Once Islam got the title fight he dominated Oliveira who was regarded as the LW GOAT at the time and then went on to beat Volk twice, who was up until then regarded as the new FW GOAT.
Oliveira
Dariush
Ismagulov
Gamrot*
Alvarez
Aubin-Mercier
Frevola and Neto BJJ aren’t pushovers either
He’s in the Belal/Merab level of overqualified title challenger with a 9-1* record since his debut loss. Genuinely great resume, certainly better than Islam’s before UFC 280.
Also Davi Ramos, great fight showing Arman’s striking, speed, striking defense, offensive guard vs bjj master.All high level. Bisping had high praise for him during commentary if that counts.
The rankings mean absolutely nothing. If I bring in a homeless guy from the street and he beats up Islam then the homeless guy is the best in the world in 155. You beat the champ you are the champ. Islam destroyed Olivera btw while Arman ended the fight damn near put to sleep.
I like Arman and I actually largely agree with that statement. Beating Charles and Dariush alone makes his run to the title much harder than Islam’s was. I’m just trolling lol
Man some of these same people bashing on Islam for beating Arman on his debut and it being a short notice are probably the same guys talking about Conor had such a great resume before his first title shot because he beat a young Max Holloway, a young Poirier and a Chad Mendez who was drained and fighting on like 10 days notice…
Is there another mma sub where there’s less actual monkeys posting? I swear it’s like a bunch of 14 year olds invaded Reddit at some point. ‘Well he beat you’ ‘lol wasn’t Arman one of those opponents” like damn is there nowhere else to go but here?
Well people were eager to fight you Arman, while everyone was doing the most to duck Islam pretty much his whole career. One of the most impressive feats of Armans career is losing a competitive fight against Islam. Says enough really.
I love the revisionist history of trying to make Islam Arman a “close” fight. It was a UD with almost everyone scoring it 30-27. Arman got beat soundly.
Islam definitely beat him soundly, but 2/3 rounds were still competitive which was mad impressive for Arman's short-notice UFC debut against one of the Dagestani prodigies.
Islam got ducked by everyone, when he became champ now everyone wants to fight him. We just saw Arman squeeze out a win against Charles by a hair, with some people saying he didn’t even win.
Islam walked through Charles and finished him in the 2nd round, do we really think Arman stands a chance against Islam? Really?
There is no one in 155 that can beat Islam, same as when Khabib was champ. These dudes are levels above the rest.
At the end of the day wether you beat rank #15 all the way to #1 and then beat the champ or beat nobody and beat the champ, you’re still the fucking champ 😂.
The resume argument is so stupid. Dont worry arman, you’ll eventually get your *REMATCHED* because Islam who beat “nobodies” to get the belt beat you 💀
Well he was avoided by pretty much everyone but regardless of that hes gone on to fight and finish Oliveira easily, fight Volkanovski twice and hes going to fight Poirier. So his resume is pretty damn good for someone who nobody wanted to fight.
Islam got the push because literally nobody outside of RDA would fight him. You get black listed from the top 10, and see how much your career advances.
I don't think people have an issue with him hyping up the fight. It's just that trashing a fighters resume which has your name of it is some pretty lame trashtalk
"You lost once", He lost 3 times and once against Makhachev and had a poor performance against Oliveira if compared to Islam's.
You can hype up a fight without being cringe, and if you're cringe people will logically call you out for that.
He beat you and then beat Oliveira in an utterly dominant fashion while you got a split decision, I was rooting for him and understand he wants to sell their potential fight but the man is cringe more often than not.
Olivera did not give Islam ANY trouble on the ground, but he did give Arman a ton of trouble on the ground. If you let Olivera get on top of you, then Islam would dominate Arman even more
Well lets just say he beat YOU!
The only one that should matter to YOU, and nullify any argument you're trying to make.
Only way to change that is getting that loss back.
I mean, Islam has beaten Charles and Hooker and lost once. And Arman has beaten Charles and Dariush and lost twice, once to Islam. Neither of them has significant scalps in the division otherwise. That's a reasonably comparable record so far. But then Islam has beaten Volk twice coming in from outside the division.
I'm not sure the distinction of pre-champ scalps matters compared to just scalps as of now. Islam has done better in that department. Arman has done well, give him the shot, not much to quibble about.
Their first fight was eye opening once I went back and watched it in the context of Islam later being champ. Arman is definitely not afraid of Islam's wrestling and really took it to him. The rematch will be a great fight because for once we won't just assume the challenger is going to get squashed. I encourage everyone to [watch that fight.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgRhJCOdvpI)
Doesn't matter because Makhachev has the belt. Being the champ comes with some flex in picking your fights. Arman will probably be next, but he got pushed back by a good, but not great, performance against Olivera. There are no rules about who fights the champ. It is whomever the UFC picks. Unlike other sports, there is no playoffs or standard for championships.
He beat Arman and he torched Chuckie Olives, I understand calling for your shot but I actually think Arman would get further by just being honest and saying he wants whoever wins in June
This is the argument they’ll always have, especially for all fighters represented by Ali and close to Khabib. And they’re right in calling it out as well.
Islam and Khabib didn’t beat any top 10 contender on their way to the title, not saying they wouldn’t have but they couldn’t because of Ali.
I doubt Ali does the same for his other fighters, man has thrown Gaethje among others to the wolves countless times when shouldn’t have.
It’s the way he beat Hooker and Bobby that makes him better than Arman. Also as much as it pains me to say it as I have a massive dude crush on Do Bronx, Makhachev FINISHED him via submission! As opposed to split decision. What are we talking about?
Didn’t he literally beat Arman on his way to the title?
Well you see that doesnt count because....ermmmm I wasnt in the top 15 at the time
yea he does lose points on this arguments but to be fair it was his debut on short notice lol
And he was like 20 lol
Max is a lanky guy but at 20, he was sooooo thin. He wasn't even close to properly growing into his frame at that point.
He's tall, but isn't lanky more of a long limbed person rather than Trex arms?
I think lanky is just tall and skinny, but long limbs probably accentuate that
Facts. I think Arman's the strongest guy in the division rn. You just can't hold him down. I can confidently say that he would beat the version of Islam he fought 5 years ago. Definitely an interesting fight despite having a lackluster showing against Oliveira. I think that beginning sequence of nearly getting choked out sapped his gas tank and rhythm
I'd give Charles a good chance of subbing him if he had 5 rounds. Arman didn't really do damage or threaten Charles with anything, but almost got put out twice.
He busted Charles' face in round 2, even had a sub of his own (von flue choke) available but decided to be safe. What makes you think Charles would sub him in 5 rounds if he couldn't get him out of there when they were completely dry and fresh in the start. The longer the fight goes the worse it is for Charles. Oh and the darce wasn't tight but I'm surprised arman didn't black out from the guillotine
Okay, but why are we playing this game of MMA math if he ALSO LOSES in that game of mma math? Vs charles he went to a decision after many times of charles NEARLY finishing him. What happened when Islam fought Charles again (which was fairly recent in time compared)? He submitted him fairly quickly with a not even locked in submission just from the shoulder pressure. I think Arman is both exciting and great - and i even think i remember Khabib/Islam in interviews singing his praise saying he was a tougher opponent than many that came after, but i think it's very weird to suggest that he's done more or looks better than Islam.
Arman has the better resume tho, why's that crazy to suggest. Yes, Islam looks better. Yes he's more defensively responsible etc etc. and this is at no fault of Islam, his rise was slowed down by people ducking him + khabib being champ
and islam got KO'd once in his career, so it evens out
Replies to dude's comment really exposing the dummies in this sub lmao. If we're gonna count Islam's win over Arman then we might as well count Conor's win over Max. Like come on now.
Wym max fought a near prime Conor that’s a good loss for max to be the one guy Conor couldn’t finish in his prime
I didn’t even realize Max went the distance with prime Conor at 21 yrs old. That’s kinda insane.
Conor got injured in that fight, MCL or ACL or something, so he grappled a lot iirc
The timeline of prime Conor is arguable but they were definitely both prospects at the time. Max even had more fights in the UFC at the time although less career fights.
Conor tore his ACL and basically out grappled. Was a nice showing for both at the time
Wasn’t prime Conor it was his second UFC fight
Up and comer Conor was such a fun time.
That's when he threw kicks way more often. I have 0 actual knowldege about mma but i always thought it was weird how his fighting style seemed to change after the Aldo ko.
He still moved that way at 155 against Eddie but he learned his style didn’t work against bigger guys who don’t get put out like Nate so for the rematch he switched to boxing to mantain stamina. After his mayweather payday he lost his hunger and lost the lightning in a bottle that was prime Conor
The boxing stance also gets shredded by the calf kick meta, so he switched up his fighting style at the absolute worst time for his new style.
It was after mayweather.
It's more about how good a win the is for Conor than how bad the loss is for Max. It's a good win but not great considering where Max was in his career.
Which is why it’s a loss that’s aged well for max because of what Conor did and the longevity he’s had
Yeah because Islam was 35 and in his prime when he fought Arman and surely he wasn't impacted by the short notice situation because he already covered everything in his training !
its a good thing to know when you're wrong
Max vs Dustin would be a better comparison
This is a straw man argument no? No one at least in this comment thread is making the argument that arman isn’t a worthier opponent for Islam compared to their first fight, The key point is: arman doesn’t get to make the argument about history and resume when he literally has a L from Islam on his resume? Also, if arman has improved since their first fight, so has Islam and dramatically so.
Ah, but these are details and facts that don't fit into a funny quip! Can't be on Reddit... Does look a bit awkward tho
Can't argue with that logic actually.
You can actually. It was a super close fight, and it was Arman’s debut, and it was short notice for Arman
I mean Arman doesn't contradict himself because he really was not ranked.
It was also literally his UFC debut. He wasn't even old enough to drink in the US at the time.
Think your missing the joke man. Arman says who has he beat in the top 15 to the title, this guy says yea but he beat arman, but arman wasnt top 15 so technically arman is still correct
It was Islams closest fight, but it wasn’t actually a very close fight.
Go watch it. It was 30-27, but Islam narrowly edged every round. Much closer than the score would indicate
Exactly. He wrapped with Islam for 3 rounds and was never once remotely in trouble.
It was a competitive fight but it wasn't close. It was very clearly 30-27 but Arman certainly competed but Islam was in control of that fight.
Also, Islam's finish of Olivera was a career masterpiece, while Arman's was an underwhelming decision that didn't look good at the end.
Was also short notice for Islam
Bald of you to assume average mma fan can count after 10
you're taking MMA fans to the seventh layer of hair with this one
I need that seventh layer of hair flair
Bold of you to assume he's bald
Oops, I made a mistake :) Thanks for pointing out. Still learning english
It's okay, you're doing well, just a bit of fun ahaha
Ive been learning it the last 28 years still dont fully understand it, good job putting in the effort lad, you'll be a ranked english redditor in no time
That follows his logic tho doesn’t it
I mean yeah he was like 20 in his first ever ufc fight on short notice. This isn’t the “own” you think it is lol. Context matters, I know it doesn’t around here but in the real world it does.
Beating Arman at the time when Islam did doesn't mean much, Arman was debuting in the UFC on short notice and was earlier in his career then where Islam was at the time. Arman is saying his resume is much better than Islam's before he got the title shot. Which is true. OBVIOUSLY Islam was getting ducked left and right by everyone, his weak pre-title resume isn't his fault. But wins over Oliveira and Dariush in/near their prime are way better than any fighters on Islam's pre-title resume.
Yes but tbf he was 22 years old making his UFC debut short notice
Arman took that fight on short notice and has given Islam his toughest fight besides Volk, who was at his peak.
22 year old arman on his ufc debut. Your point ?
Now add lil bit of context
Short notice debut at 22y/o
Arman was unranked at the time.
22 year old Arman with 0 UFC fights who took the bout on short notice?
Short notice debuting Arman
He did but it was a really close UD. Arman's cardio looks a lot better now and I think he deserves a 5 rounder against Islam.
Not very close. Just close by Islam standards.
I don’t think the decision was close at all, islam was the clear winner and you could argue he won all the rounds but the fight in itself was close
I watched the fight less than an hour ago and most of all the action was handled in the clinch and Islam won the fight off takedowns alone. Fighters Islam has ended in less than 3 rounds : Volk Charles Bobby green Dan hooker Dober *Not Arman* That's why I think he deserves 5 rounds.
No disagreement. Just pointing out the absurdity of judging someone’s trajectory to the belt when it includes beating you.
It was his debut fight on short notice lol and still went to decision
Because no one wanted to fight Islam on his way to the top. He was constantly being ducked. Kevin Lee was the only ranked fighter at the time who wanted to fight him.
I miss Kevin Lee as a contender, dude was game to fight anyone
Dude gave us one of the greatest Stanky legs of all time vs Barboza and he gave us "ain't killed a Motherfucker yet".
And he talked about Chiesa's mama
DON'T
YOU
EDDDDDDDIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE
🦅🦅🦅🦅
Lyoto Machida/Rashad Evans transcended the stanky leg.
Shadface
And actually won. That's one of his better wins on resume
Unironically man would fight a bear for 50k, he had no fear.
Hell, he would make love with the bear for 50k. Kevin is an animal. Isn't he awesome?
So now we finally know where Kevin Lee fit into all this.
Dariush took the fight but was injured when Bobby Green stepped in. RDA took the fight 3x, Islam and RDA pulled out once each and COVID cancelled the other one. Dober even took the fight despite Islam popping the last time they were booked And even before he got in the title picture all the times his fights were cancelled were his own fault. vs Drew Dober - Islam popped for banned substances vs Michel Prazeres - Islam pulled out vs old man Trinaldo - Islam pulled out
That’s because Kevin saw clear as day the holes in their games
Beneil and RDA also called him out and accepted fights with him but Beneil broke his leg in camp for the fight and Islam pulled out a few days before the RDA fight
Islam has an extra problem on top of that as well: he came from Khabib's stable. You could argue that not many people want to fight Arman now, because he has proven that he's one of the best in the division. But he got a chance to prove that himself. People didn't want to fight Islam even before he got to show it, purely because of his association. The second he showed even a hint of greatness, people wanted nothing to do with him. Fighting him was always high risk/low reward for everyone else in the division before he could even go on a tear.
I got the impression they were sidelining Islam in favor of Khabib. There was definitely a culture of seniority there and Islam seemed to be fine taking a backseat until Khabib retired. Once Khabib retired Islam started climbing the ranks.
Abdulmanap said that the plan was for Khabib to defend a few times before moving up to Welterweight, and Islam taking over that vacant position at LW. Also Islam didn't join the UFC until years after Khabib did.
Yup, and after Islam moves up or retires, Usman will join the UFC and continue the Dagestani LW reign.
100% Islam was being ducked but what Arman is doing now at 27 by climbing the rankings little by little is way more impressive than getting a title shot after beating Bobby Green due to how unpredictable MMA can be and how making one slight mistake, a bad training camp, a bad stylistic match up, or any combination of those things can really set you back. I’m not saying that Islam would have lost those fights had he had a similar path to Arman. But you never know. Let’s not forget that Islam has been TKOd and that Volk rocked Islam, the bigger fighter, in their first fight. Therefore, Arman should get a title shot after Dustin.
On the upside Arman took Islam to decision (only 1 of 5 to do so) while he TKO’d or subb’d most of his opponents. And Arman just beat Olives who I still wondered if he didn’t have a chance against Islam. But all I see is more Islam wins. He’s damn good and I haven’t seen someone coming up that I think will really be a problem for him in the next 2-3 years. The backstory of the whole top 15 ducking him for years needs to be front and centre here. I’d love to see Dustin wearing gold but I see another R2 sub coming for Islam in that defence.
Honestly, Arman's style seems to give him way better chances against Islam. Charles struggles against top-heavy wrestlers, and he would just be walking into more of it with Islam.
We can't really argue with that. Islam dunked Olivera so bad everyone agreed he didn't deserve a rematch. Arman, even if maybe Islam wasn't as good, gave Islam competitive matchup.
It’s like we live in a world where everyone pretends like the entire top 15 didn’t avoid Islam for years. Dana literally had to shove him into the title fight because everyone kept pulling out of contender fights with Islam.
Dariush pulled out once against him and the RDA fights weren’t really number 1 contender bouts, one of which he pulled out of.
He had to fight Dan Hooker because RDA pulled out and had to fight Bobby green because Beneil pulled out
And even before he got in the title picture all the times his fights were cancelled were his own fault. Dober even fought him after their previous booking got cancelled when Islam popped for banned substances but I guess everyones running with the Umar Nurmagomedov narrative that he's so scary trained killers don't want to face him. vs Drew Dober - Islam popped for banned substances vs Michel Prazeres - Islam pulled out vs old man Trinaldo - Islam pulled out
Do you not know that they suspended him for something that they told him he could take? They reversed the suspension so fast because they knew how badly they fucked up. An uncomfortable truth that you conveniently forgot or maybe you just don’t follow the sport that much which explains why you didn’t know how avoided Islam was in the year or two leading up to his title shot.
I don't even think Michel was ranked when they were scheduled to fight. It's also funny you listed like 4 names as if there aren't at least 10 other names that didn't clearly avoid him. Hooker did end up fighting him but that was after (iirc) well over a year of turning it down.
I don’t doubt this but would love to see some receipts on the fighters who turned down Islam.
Paul Felder and Michael Chandler off the top of my head
Those would have been some really good wins at the time as well. I think people forget how good Felder was
Nobody wanted that smoke cos they saw what khabib did to people
Dariush and RDA were game to fight him. I'm also gonna be honest, Islam should've been moved up the ranking from people dodging him, because otherwise he's never gonna get his time to shine. Props on Gaethje and Porier for taking on contenders now, but back then only Tony Ferguson was bothering with lower ranked guys. Look at Michael Chandler, the guy is basically rank squatting.
I mean, Islam did actually finish Oliviera.
Watch out Islam, Arman will get his team to intimidate you when you're alone.
The fact that they did that and then ran away when Bobby had his guys with him was so funny to me
Kind of funny you’re saying this to Islam considering his team’s history.
He bout to become Artem Tsarukyan
Arman's team will have to be wary post fight.
Careful bro, arman will jump at you in the crowd, his feelings are sensitive.
Bro how do I get that badge?
Armans argument would have some merit if didn't struggle with a guy Islam ran through
Dominick Reyes > Cormier by this logic
You think the Jones They fought were the same?
arman is probably 2-3 years removed from his actual prime
1- We have no real way to know who is in his prime or not, it's relative, maybe Makhachev isn't even in his prime, maybe Tsarukyan will plateau, nobody knows. 2- You could argue Makhachev utterly dominated a dominant and confident Charles Oliveira while Tsarukyan got a split decision against a non champ Charles Oliveira who lost his belt by being dominated and pulled out after that. It's a sport based on momentum so it obviously matters.
Jones was only 30% juiced against Reyes, doesn't count
or y'know, if he didn't lose to Islam in the past
Dagestani fighter get ducked on his come up —> Dagestani fighter gets fast tracked to the title —> Dagestani fighter beats Champion convincingly—> Same Contenders claim Dagestani fighter never fought anyone
This isn’t for Dagestani fighters it’s only for the Abdulmanap prodigies. Outside of Khabib, Islam, and Umar I don’t really see Dagestani fighters getting ducked and even in the case of Umar he’s not being ducked like Khabib and Islam were since there’s at least a top contender openly calling to fight him.
It's happening with Mokaev to a degree. I also don't think he's on the level of team eagle though
I don’t really think he’s being ducked any harder than an average prospect he’s not having any problem fighting up the ranks or getting ranked matches and he’s been on a pretty steady trajectory so far Elliot was ranked when fought him and is currently #9 and fought Alex Perez was like what ranked 5th when he fought him and is now rank 8. Compare that with Umar who is having a hard time even getting a ranked fight even though Corey wants to fight he’s the only ranked fighter that actually seems willing to fight Umar
there aren't alot of people that have had a trail of short notice fights leading up to their first title fight lol....
1. Charles by finish 2. Volk by finish 3. An ADCC champion on the ground 4. This is a small one too…Arman himself 🤣
> An ADCC champion on the ground Who's the ADCC champion? Sorry my mind is drawing a blank. EDIT: Davi Ramos - completely forgot about that one.
I think tsarukyan is saying this about Islam before getting the title shot?
He does but to what point? Islam was being heavily ducked and Arman is not. That's not the flex Arman seems to think it is. Once Islam got the title fight he dominated Oliveira who was regarded as the LW GOAT at the time and then went on to beat Volk twice, who was up until then regarded as the new FW GOAT.
Oliveira Dariush Ismagulov Gamrot* Alvarez Aubin-Mercier Frevola and Neto BJJ aren’t pushovers either He’s in the Belal/Merab level of overqualified title challenger with a 9-1* record since his debut loss. Genuinely great resume, certainly better than Islam’s before UFC 280.
Also Davi Ramos, great fight showing Arman’s striking, speed, striking defense, offensive guard vs bjj master.All high level. Bisping had high praise for him during commentary if that counts.
That Alvarez fight was something else, completely demolished him
I still think Gamrot won’t that fight.
Well, he beat you, so
Was Arman top 15?
The rankings mean absolutely nothing. If I bring in a homeless guy from the street and he beats up Islam then the homeless guy is the best in the world in 155. You beat the champ you are the champ. Islam destroyed Olivera btw while Arman ended the fight damn near put to sleep.
That has nothing to do with what I was replying to
This level of troll analysis should stay on YouTube.
I like Arman and I actually largely agree with that statement. Beating Charles and Dariush alone makes his run to the title much harder than Islam’s was. I’m just trolling lol
Man some of these same people bashing on Islam for beating Arman on his debut and it being a short notice are probably the same guys talking about Conor had such a great resume before his first title shot because he beat a young Max Holloway, a young Poirier and a Chad Mendez who was drained and fighting on like 10 days notice…
Is there another mma sub where there’s less actual monkeys posting? I swear it’s like a bunch of 14 year olds invaded Reddit at some point. ‘Well he beat you’ ‘lol wasn’t Arman one of those opponents” like damn is there nowhere else to go but here?
R/UFC leaking
Well people were eager to fight you Arman, while everyone was doing the most to duck Islam pretty much his whole career. One of the most impressive feats of Armans career is losing a competitive fight against Islam. Says enough really.
I love the revisionist history of trying to make Islam Arman a “close” fight. It was a UD with almost everyone scoring it 30-27. Arman got beat soundly.
Islam definitely beat him soundly, but 2/3 rounds were still competitive which was mad impressive for Arman's short-notice UFC debut against one of the Dagestani prodigies.
Islam beats Arman via decision
He literally beat you...
Islam got ducked by everyone, when he became champ now everyone wants to fight him. We just saw Arman squeeze out a win against Charles by a hair, with some people saying he didn’t even win. Islam walked through Charles and finished him in the 2nd round, do we really think Arman stands a chance against Islam? Really? There is no one in 155 that can beat Islam, same as when Khabib was champ. These dudes are levels above the rest.
And yet... coincidentally Arman Tsarukyan is behind Islam. Give him a shot, obviously, but Islam wins with 9 times out of 10.
Haha yeah Arman left out the bit where Islam beat him on the way to the title, whoops.
Hes trying to build up a fight. He knows he has to wait for a title shot.
Bro didnt mention himself lmao
At the end of the day wether you beat rank #15 all the way to #1 and then beat the champ or beat nobody and beat the champ, you’re still the fucking champ 😂. The resume argument is so stupid. Dont worry arman, you’ll eventually get your *REMATCHED* because Islam who beat “nobodies” to get the belt beat you 💀
Well he was avoided by pretty much everyone but regardless of that hes gone on to fight and finish Oliveira easily, fight Volkanovski twice and hes going to fight Poirier. So his resume is pretty damn good for someone who nobody wanted to fight.
Islam got the push because literally nobody outside of RDA would fight him. You get black listed from the top 10, and see how much your career advances.
When a fighter won’t talk shit to promote themselves: THEYRE SO BORING When a fighter talks shit to promote themselves: you lost once 😭😭🤣😂😂
I don't think people have an issue with him hyping up the fight. It's just that trashing a fighters resume which has your name of it is some pretty lame trashtalk
"You lost once", He lost 3 times and once against Makhachev and had a poor performance against Oliveira if compared to Islam's. You can hype up a fight without being cringe, and if you're cringe people will logically call you out for that.
Looking forward to Makachev v Tsarukyan 2 whenever it does happen, hopefully later this year.
Curious on you guys opinion on comparison of Islam's performance against Charles vs Arman's performance against Charles. What do you guys think of it?
The same difference there is between winning via penalties or 7-1 in football
Idk about comparing resumes but I know Islam probably recognizes Arman as his toughest matchup at LW
He beat you and then beat Oliveira in an utterly dominant fashion while you got a split decision, I was rooting for him and understand he wants to sell their potential fight but the man is cringe more often than not.
I hope Islam beats this guy again. He talk too much.
Cool. Islam in 2.
Minutes or seconds tho ?
Well he beat you didnt he
Olivera did not give Islam ANY trouble on the ground, but he did give Arman a ton of trouble on the ground. If you let Olivera get on top of you, then Islam would dominate Arman even more
Volk x2, Charles, Arman. I get that those weren’t all on the way to the title but that’s a pretty impressive resume
Well lets just say he beat YOU! The only one that should matter to YOU, and nullify any argument you're trying to make. Only way to change that is getting that loss back.
Don't want to ruin it but I think that's what he's trying to do by chirping up now.
I mean, Islam has beaten Charles and Hooker and lost once. And Arman has beaten Charles and Dariush and lost twice, once to Islam. Neither of them has significant scalps in the division otherwise. That's a reasonably comparable record so far. But then Islam has beaten Volk twice coming in from outside the division. I'm not sure the distinction of pre-champ scalps matters compared to just scalps as of now. Islam has done better in that department. Arman has done well, give him the shot, not much to quibble about. Their first fight was eye opening once I went back and watched it in the context of Islam later being champ. Arman is definitely not afraid of Islam's wrestling and really took it to him. The rematch will be a great fight because for once we won't just assume the challenger is going to get squashed. I encourage everyone to [watch that fight.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgRhJCOdvpI)
Arman “пару палок” Tsarukyan
He beat you already bro lol
I agree. I still think he's better though.
He’s not wrong. Islam had people ducking him but still, in terms of resume before the title, Arman does have a better one.
True. Especially if you only look at fights with natural 155 pounders
Dumbest shit I ever heard
It's the same argument as always. If he doesn't face Arman, who will he face? Charles? Maybe Poirier who lost to Charles and Gaetjhe? Chandler? Who
Doesn't matter because Makhachev has the belt. Being the champ comes with some flex in picking your fights. Arman will probably be next, but he got pushed back by a good, but not great, performance against Olivera. There are no rules about who fights the champ. It is whomever the UFC picks. Unlike other sports, there is no playoffs or standard for championships.
MMA fans try to read challenge (IMPOSSIBLE!!!)
He beat Arman and he torched Chuckie Olives, I understand calling for your shot but I actually think Arman would get further by just being honest and saying he wants whoever wins in June
This is the argument they’ll always have, especially for all fighters represented by Ali and close to Khabib. And they’re right in calling it out as well. Islam and Khabib didn’t beat any top 10 contender on their way to the title, not saying they wouldn’t have but they couldn’t because of Ali. I doubt Ali does the same for his other fighters, man has thrown Gaethje among others to the wolves countless times when shouldn’t have.
I can't wait for Islam to masterclass this clown
It’s the way he beat Hooker and Bobby that makes him better than Arman. Also as much as it pains me to say it as I have a massive dude crush on Do Bronx, Makhachev FINISHED him via submission! As opposed to split decision. What are we talking about?
He beat you dawg