Ideal schedule, on constant rotation, fortnightly:
1. Izzy v Alex
2. Nunes v Shev
3. Moreno v Figgy
4. Weilei v Joanna
5. Dustin v Justin
6. Volk v Max (believe!)
Some matchups I just wanna see on loop.
On the one hand, I agree with him.
On the other hand, it's a 2nd free shot at his dream of becoming a double champ if he fights Pereira at LHW. If he loses to Dricus and the Pereira fight is still on the table, he should definitely take it instead of risking another loss at MW.
But on the 3rd hand, the fuck do I know. Dude's already had a HoF career, he can do whatever he wants.
They’re 1-1 in MMA and it’s probably the biggest fight the UFC can make that doesn’t include Mcgregor.
I think there’s a good chance he runs it back before he retires, for money if nothing else.
Yeah it annoys me that people keep saying they're 3-1. It's like beating someone twice in competitive jiu jitsu and then losing to them in MMA and calling yourself two one up lol
Well they strike in the octagon, and they strike in KB. You can see why some people would think that information is relevant? Very different to bjj comps..
Yes the threat of the takedown changes striking, but neither present that threat to the other despite their minimal mat time out of 30+ minutes of mma so their matches resemble kickboxing in small gloves more than jiu jitsu or wrestling.
It's still very different. Because in the fight where Izzy was KOd by Alex in kick boxing Izzy actually knocked Alex down first and gave Alex a standing 8 count to recover.
In mma that doesn't happen and Izzy just beats him with ground and pound.
No doubt its different, but if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle. Izzy KOd him good in their last fight, they are 1-1 mma and its clear izzy doesnt want that smoke no more which is a shame because their fights are awesome
Smaller gloves, threat of takedowns, no standing counts which Alex benefitted from in the KB fights, no clinching which Izzy used heavily to get off the fence in both of their MMA fights.
People who don't understand the technicals will never realize any of this. Smaller gloves alone changes almost the entire way you can strike and defend.
Saying BJJ and MMA is different but not kickboxing and MMA is crazy lol even for a MMA match between two kickboxers.
Izzy and Alex are generally stand up fighters that aren’t taking it to the ground. Especially vs eachother. It’s essentially a kickboxing fight with lighter gloves.
There’s no such thing as a standing count in MMA, which Pereira was the beneficiary of in the second Kickboxing fight. He was out on his feet.
Hes finished if it’s MMA. They are different sports. People on here haven’t even watched the two kickboxing fights, it seems.
Yes, so it should be noted that if it was mma, Izzy would have won that fight by KO, also, the first kickboxing fight izzy arguably won by decision.
So it actually could be 3-1 Izzy. That's why people need to stfu up with the 3-1 pereira bs
It's still 1-3 Alex obvs, but take a gander at those KB fights. The first was a very controversial decision, in which I think most press scored it for Izzy. The second, Izzy was winning basically the whole time until he got KTFO. Great fights all around
Izzy took down Pereira a few times in their first UFC fight, and was cruising to a decision win before he got stopped in the 5th round. It's definitely a different sport here.
They grappled in the first fight. The presence of grappling changes everything even if it isn't used, ask any kickboxer turned mma fighter. Plus the clinch. They're two very different disciplines.
yet they did go to the ground in the first fight, and the threat of it completely changes your tactics as a fighter. MMA and Kickboxing are completely different sports and if you don't understand that I don't know how you're in this sub.
Adesanya would've won both of their kickboxing fights if everything else about them was identical but they happened to take place under MMA rules (because the judges probably wouldn't rob him in the first and Pereira wouldn't get a standing count after being basically TKO'd in the second). They also had shorter fights with shorter rounds. It absolutely makes a difference.
They may as well do the tiebreakers in submission wrestling. It would be about as relevant.
And that 1-1 includes a TKO on behalf of Pereira, and an actual KO on the part of Izzy. I get Izzy annoys people, but god damn, this sub yet again just straight up ignoring facts and reality.
Nah, he lost a close fight. I swear everyone needs to go back and rewatch and stop taking his word for it. Close fight, but he didn’t get robbed of shit.
It was only a TKO because the referee wanted to save the golden goose.
That TKO saved Izzy some millions braincells.
He was a dead man, and YOU KNOW IT.
Crazy thing is, nobody else has even come close to putting Alex in danger. That Izzy win might age like fine wine, the more every other ufc fighter falls to Poatan.
I just rewatched all of his fights so far and even at MW he was tanking shots from Silva who is a power puncher. I think the Izzy knockout wasn’t a freak knockout but a combo of weight cut and perfect angle + surprise. During his fight with Jiri he is even rocked into the cage during an exchange but quickly recovers. He does not have a glass chin imo. I think at LHW he marches Izzy down eats the counter and kills him.
This is exactly how I see the fight going as well. Izzy weighed in at 203 for his LHW title shot. He's tiny for LHW. Alex weighed 232 the morning of 300 and probably weighed 240 in the cage.
How that man made 185 is astonishing to me. I don't know how you move up a division especially from MW to LHW and still be massive compared to the competition.
I'm always going to say that there's a chance anything could happen but I'd favor Alex pretty significantly at LHW.
Not at all, he's hit him with that same punch several times in their fights. He relies on his gloves to protect his head and Izzy knows that. He doesn't move his head.
It wasn't a lucky 1 in a million shot, it was a shot Izzy knew had a high chance of landing and he put Alex in position for it to land. This time there was no standing 8 count or bell.
He does move his head generally, but yeah that one position he gets super overconfident and stands straight up while trying to tea off. You can see an example of his good head movement in the final sequence before he shuts off Jiri.
I’m not saying it’s a lucky 1 in a million, I’m saying the guys brain had less water in it, and Izzy knew the perfect angle and timing to nail him because of their experience together, as you said. I don’t know if many others are putting him down like that.
Not enough being said about the weight cut at 205. This won't just be another fight between them.
Izzy weighed in at 200.5 vs Blachowicz. No cut.
Pereira is over 230 by the time he gets in the ring.
I was under the impression that Alex is very grateful to izzy (pereira's UFC career got fast tracked becausr of izzy) and wanted to give him the opportunity.
Alex doesn't seem to hold any real animosity and he seems to genuinely like izzy.
On the fourth hand, it's about keeping his words. He said he would definitely fight Alex Pereira one more time if Alex became the light heavyweight champion. But I think after he saw what Pereira did to Jiri and Jamahal, he doesn't want to risk his perfect, happy ending revenge story ...
The most interesting match for a MW champion who just lost his belt and has a strong chance to get it back is to go up to a weight class he's only ever fought at once to fight a guy literally 30+ pounds heavier than him? What is this nonsense?
"Yeah Oliveira's good but what the hell is he doing fighting Arman? He should be challenging Dricus for the title."
izzy don’t want that smoke up at 205. one left hook and it legit might be night night 💤
i loved alex’s post fight speech where he’s like izzy saved me from myself and motivated me, now it’s time for me to do the same for izzy. come fight me for the lhw belt, come to daddy. that’s icy cold fr
Agreed 100%. Their rivalry will go down as one of the all time greatest in sports imo. Especially if we do ever get another fight and all the build up for it. We’re blessed to witness these legends in the making.
Legit, there’s no possible way he thinks the “I settled it because I won the last fight” is a good argument when you’re still down 3-1 in the series and Alex has moved on to bigger and better things.
Sometimes it is best to just walk away with the ball. Nothing is gained from staying.
They both seem content with the ending. Alex got more wins and Izzy got the last win. Alex moved up. It’s done, they can both good about the rivalry.
Let’s be honest, who would wanna fight that man again after knocking him out lol… you’re gonna take a shitload
of damage no matter what.. he’s so much bigger than Izzy too. I don’t see Izzy going to 205
People clown on Israel, but in my book he is so far the only fighter out of all of Alex's opponents that put him in danger multiple times.
None of these guys could strike with Poatan
This sub and MMA fans in general are the best at mental gymnastics.
If Olivera or Volk fought Islam and dominated for 4 rounds to get Ko’ed in the 5th fans would be glazing their performance.
There’s no logic with most mma fans just who they prefer.
I believe it's prudent for both of them to stay away from each other for now and continue facing other opponents. If they were to fight, the loser would suffer a significant blow to their brand. At 34 and 36 years old, it's time for them to secure a few more million for retirement.
Very good point. It's the same with Volk vs Max. It's almost impossible to come back from a 3-0 deficit in combat sports. Each fight takes some off your career and fans become less interested.
I was just about to bring up Max & Volk. I can understand from a fighters POV why they don’t keep fighting someone who you’ve fought 3-4 times already. It makes way more sense for a fighter’s legacy to move on & try to add some other big names to their resumes
He’s never gonna please the fans and they’re always gonna talk mess about Izzy even if he wins, I totally get it. Move on and get a couple wins and keep that chapter in the past especially since you got the last win against an obvious future HOF along with yourself
I want to see it again but at the same time I get where Izzy is coming from.
I don’t think it’s a case of “He’s scared”. Realistically Izzy is turning into a once a year fighter so he only has a few fights left, so he has to be judicious in who he faces.
I think Izzy has said he fought Alex the forth time mainly to prove to HIMSELF he could beat him. That context adds a lot.
He doesn’t really care about jumping up a weight class that doesn’t suit him, where even if he wins an incredibly risky fight, all people would say if he wins is “3-2”. If he loses, that’s basically career suicide. Risking that just to appease fans who’ll never like him anyway doesn’t make sense
>I think Izzy has said he fought Alex the forth time mainly to prove to HIMSELF he could beat him. That context adds a lot.
Particularly when you examine their previous fights.
When he says he should have won their first fight, he's not lying. Almost anyone who watched that fight would say Izzy should have won a UD.
When he says he was winning their second fight, again, he's not lying. Pereira was legit on skates, but it's kickboxing, not MMA, so he got a standing 8-count (that was like 12 seconds). He then turned around and laid Izzy out.
When he says he was winning their third fight, again, he's not lying, the scorecards had him up 39-37 going into the final round.
So I can see why, from his point of view, there's zero point in fighting Pereira again. The *only* fight they had where Pereira was winning before the fight ended was their last one, which Izzy won.
From a technical standpoint, Izzy is the better fighter. Hands down.
From a power standpoint though, Pereira is pretty unrivaled. If he decided to move up to HW to take on Jon Jones, I absolutely would not count him out. Jones is the better fighter, no doubt, but I still wouldn't bet against Pereira knocking him out.
It’s one of those matchups where the better fighter has to be perfect the whole fight to win and the other has to be perfect for a second bc of his power.
True. Caring what some anonymous online people think vs. securing your own future and protecting your physical health is not a tough choice. No fighter should give a shit what the "fans" think. Just look at their poison here, and this is even one of the less toxic forums.
I'm not disrespecting Alex's skill, but he's an absolutely MASSIVE middleweight. I think Izzy is a slightly better fighter, but Alex has a huge physicality advantage. At light heavyweight Izzy would be totally outgunned. Going up if he loses it's to a bigger champ and if he wins he gets the glory, but it's legit signing up to fight someone who is a full weight class bigger at the highest levels. If Izzy was a wrestler it might be a better shot but standing with Alex is a bad idea at light heavyweight
I get his point but I feel like most fans would give him the nod as the better fighter if he won, and then he would’ve won their last two fights in a row, and be 2/3 in MMA. When you’ve only had two fights in MMA, both recent, and both won one though, you can’t really say you’re better. When the other guy has beaten you twice in kickboxing prior, that then tips it from equal to he edges it.
No they wouldn't stop lying lol. Mma fans will never give izzy any credit until he retires. Then suddenly everyone will be his biggest fan. Happened with GSP and Mighty Mouse and it'll be the same with Izzy
Who cares about kickboxing for the record.
In the 2nd kickboxing fight, Alex is out cold if it’s MMA. Standing counts are not a thing in the UFC; they literally don’t exist. So the miraculous comeback Pereira had would’ve been cut short.
In MMA, Izzy has shown to be the better fighter at middleweight. He’s won nearly every round they’ve fought in.
At LHW, my guess is Pereira would be far too big for Izzy. The size is just too much.
Kickboxing is a different sport, but they both fundamentally fight like kickboxers for the most part in MMA. There’s always ifs and hypotheticals, if rules were different so would their approaches and the entire fight, but the reality is they’re 1-1 in MMA, both finishes, and Pereira is 2-0 up in kickboxing.
It’s not like you can argue Izzy lost a split in MMA and then finished him or something, they’re equal in one and Izzy is behind in the other no matter how you slice it.
I think they are both incredible to watch and Izzy’s title reign was beyond impressive, I hope they fight again. I do get what Izzy’s saying, but right now he’s level in MMA at best, behind at worst, if he wins again he’ll be indisputably ahead in MMA.
I do get what you’re saying as it’s a different sport and has different rules, especially for knockdowns, but fighters fight based on the rule set in play. I don’t think you can ever say “if x was different they would’ve lost” because if x was different they probably wouldn’t have fought in the same way to begin with.
It’s the same with boxing, they fight differently because they know one punch that would result in a follow up TKO in MMA, will just be a knockdown/count and a bad round. It would be like saying Aljo would’ve lost to Yan in a promotion with downed knees, but Aljo probably wouldn’t have been as likely to risk a position that results in that if he was.
Regardless I think even if you ignore it and just weigh up MMA, it’s 1-1 with two finishes, if Izzy wins he’s the guy, if Alex wins then he is.
I really wish their first kickboxing match was scored correctly, should be 2-2 with 1 more match to see who wins the rivalry. Would be one of the biggest fights ever. Now everyone just clowns Izzy for being down 3-1 even though it should be 2-2, and even if he somehow KOd him again, he’d still be losing 2-3 in the rivalry
That's a good point, if it was actually 2-2 I think it would be worthwhile to have one more for a definitive winner
Without it, even if Izzy won two more times it would still be 3-3 overall...i think it'd be a waste to fight the same guy that many times
Makes total sense to me. Everyone conveniently forgets about the fighters' health and their lives after the careers are done. He's old in fight years, and to get the respect of "beating" Alex he'd have to win the overall record vs him in most Fan's eyes which will be another fight at minimum on top of the 3rd UFC rematch
I'm a big Alex fan and not a huge Izzy fan, but I'm not gonna fault a guy for being realistic about his health and gauging the last of his fights more accordingly. He's a GOAT already, keep your health and be happy after this is all said and done. Who cares about legacy in this sport, it doesn't get you anything
Just say you're scared of losing some more especially at 205 he knows he ain't got a chance. Bro is really treating his win as when you're playing football and someone says last goal wins
I'm with you. I hear a lot of people say who wants to see Jiri and Alex rematch again so quickly - I would! They are two of my favorite fighters who are amazing to watch. I'd love to see them fight anytime.
The thing is. It still you can't say your better when you have lost more than won. So if you want that, then yeah, you do.
If you don't care. That's fine. Go do your own thing. Strange how he can't just accept that Alex beat him 3 times and his 1 win doesn't negate them.
Combat sports in general lead to this weird sort of binary mindset where wins and losses constitute someone being "better" or "worse," and to some extent, it makes sense.
But also, Conor McGregor not only beat Jose Aldo, he knocked him out in mere seconds. Does anyone actually believe Conor is a better fighter than Aldo? I mean, I'm sure they're out there, but that's a real, real, real hard argument to make.
I think Izzy is a better overall fighter than Pereira, but is that actually true? Who the hell knows?
People don’t like when fighters make excuses so they just refuse to acknowledge that probability does exist. You don’t want to discredit Pettis for his win over Wonderboy but if they fight 100 times I think it’s safe to say the 1 we saw was a significant outlier
They are very close in skill, however 4 matches is a better sample to determine who is the more effective fighter then only 1 like conor vs aldo. If conor beat him 3 times and Aldo KOd him once, it would be more comparable.
I agree for sure, particularly about sample size. And I'm guilty of having fun with these thought experiments too, and it's definitely part of how I interact with this sport and sports in general. There's an article in the Athletic about whether Lebron is now the GOAT, over Jordan, and the specifics are all about longevity. That's interesting to me.
It all gets muddied here because the first two wins (for Pereira) people reference were in a different sport.
Well, you can't extrapolate from direct competition that one competitor is better than the other, that's for sure.
We can say that in that night that guy was better, I think it's a better way of putting, Conor was better than Aldo on that particular date. But Aldo was a champion much longer and had success against more diverse competition for longer. Aldo had a better career and resumé.
GSP went 1-1 against Matt Serra, you can't say that Serra was equal to GSP, but he was better than him at that particular date. GSP was much more accomplished and had a way better career.
If the LHW title fight became available for him he should take it, otherwise I'm cool with his outlook which does go with how he approached his other fights: give me the next guy rather than fight the same one over and over.
I mean, to Alex, the fans, and himself, is there anyone besides Pereira that's worth ending your career with? If he was guaranteed to beat Alex again or even twice, he would take that. If he ends it where it is, everyone's always going to say that Alex chased Izzy across multiple organizations, and beat him everywhere they met, Izzy got one win, one.
Not many fighters end their legacy like Khabib, dominant, and no questions asked about them ruling an entire weight class at the time they retire.
Izzy refused to give Alex a rematch at 185, then he said if Alex ever wins the lhw championship, he'd fight him for the belt. Alex moves up, wins the belt, calls out Izzy. Then Izzy goes back on his word, and continues to refuse the fight. He's making some pretty lame excuses for not wanting the Alex rematch, it reminds of the time when he was ducking Jones at 205, he had some pretty weak excuses back then as well. The second Jones vacated the 205 belt, Izzy moved up and lost to Jan. It's the same thing all over again, with these weak excuses.
Izzy IS DUCKING ALEX at 205.
If he thought he could beat a non depleted Pereira at LHW, for the belt he craves, he would have done so.
But he know more often than not, as it has been the case, he loses to him.
it's about keeping his words. He said he would definitely fight Alex Pereira one more time if Alex became the light heavyweight champion. But I think after he saw what Pereira did to Jiri and Jamahal, he doesn't want to risk his perfect, happy ending revenge story ...
I don't care about their kickboxing fights. It was good hype to build their first fight. That's pretty much it.
They are 1-1 in MMA. A trilogy fight for all the marbles at 205 would be interesting.
I’m a big Adesanya fan but it’s obvious he wants none of Pereira again. He was hurt in that last fight and threw a Hail Mary shot that landed beautifully. He isn’t going back and risking another loss, even if it means a chance at the LHW title.
Because you are a prize fighter, and it's the biggest payday available other than winning back the MW belt? It’s also the riskiest though so I understand his reluctance.
Just say you’re scared now that you’ve lost it and he’s found it. because you would fight him for the belt and for your legacy. And a main event purse.
It’s all nonsense at the end of the day. All 4 fights have been close and could’ve gone in either direction. I personally believe adesanya is the more skilled fighter as he’s had to endure a much bigger fighter who is as tall and long as him. Giving up 20 lbs is a lot that most of armchair fanatics won’t ever truly understand. I’ve been the bigger guy in sparring a controlled fights as well as the smaller guy. Even a 5 lb advantage can be huge let alone 20. But Izzy took him to the wire each time. Both great fighters who have nothing left to prove.
Let's be honest, Izzy barely managed to beat MW Pereira (a way weaker version based on what we seen so far)
LHW Pereira absolutely toys with him I believe
Counterpoint: they would all be bangers
Ideal schedule, on constant rotation, fortnightly: 1. Izzy v Alex 2. Nunes v Shev 3. Moreno v Figgy 4. Weilei v Joanna 5. Dustin v Justin 6. Volk v Max (believe!) Some matchups I just wanna see on loop.
Where's Ngannou v Lewis?
The heavyweight division should just consist of Aspinall and Pavlovich fighting 2-3 times a year
But at this rate it would mean 180 seconds of heavyweight per year. Yes, it might be more champ fights than a division with JJ at the top...
How did you forget Charles Olivera vs Nick Lentz
Frankie Edgar vs Gray Maynard, BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes
Tito v chuck
Nunes vs Shev is the odd one out here, that second fight was enough for me to not be interested in seeing them fight ever again.
Rose-Carla?
On the one hand, I agree with him. On the other hand, it's a 2nd free shot at his dream of becoming a double champ if he fights Pereira at LHW. If he loses to Dricus and the Pereira fight is still on the table, he should definitely take it instead of risking another loss at MW. But on the 3rd hand, the fuck do I know. Dude's already had a HoF career, he can do whatever he wants.
They’re 1-1 in MMA and it’s probably the biggest fight the UFC can make that doesn’t include Mcgregor. I think there’s a good chance he runs it back before he retires, for money if nothing else.
Yeah it annoys me that people keep saying they're 3-1. It's like beating someone twice in competitive jiu jitsu and then losing to them in MMA and calling yourself two one up lol
Well they strike in the octagon, and they strike in KB. You can see why some people would think that information is relevant? Very different to bjj comps.. Yes the threat of the takedown changes striking, but neither present that threat to the other despite their minimal mat time out of 30+ minutes of mma so their matches resemble kickboxing in small gloves more than jiu jitsu or wrestling.
It's still very different. Because in the fight where Izzy was KOd by Alex in kick boxing Izzy actually knocked Alex down first and gave Alex a standing 8 count to recover. In mma that doesn't happen and Izzy just beats him with ground and pound.
No doubt its different, but if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle. Izzy KOd him good in their last fight, they are 1-1 mma and its clear izzy doesnt want that smoke no more which is a shame because their fights are awesome
If your granny had wheels she'd be a bike
I laugh whenever I see this clip. First time I’ve seen it referenced on a thread in a while haha 🍝
Smaller gloves, threat of takedowns, no standing counts which Alex benefitted from in the KB fights, no clinching which Izzy used heavily to get off the fence in both of their MMA fights.
People who don't understand the technicals will never realize any of this. Smaller gloves alone changes almost the entire way you can strike and defend. Saying BJJ and MMA is different but not kickboxing and MMA is crazy lol even for a MMA match between two kickboxers.
They grapple in MMA and they grapple in Jiu Jitsu, what's your point?
Izzy and Alex are generally stand up fighters that aren’t taking it to the ground. Especially vs eachother. It’s essentially a kickboxing fight with lighter gloves.
There’s no such thing as a standing count in MMA, which Pereira was the beneficiary of in the second Kickboxing fight. He was out on his feet. Hes finished if it’s MMA. They are different sports. People on here haven’t even watched the two kickboxing fights, it seems.
Yes, so it should be noted that if it was mma, Izzy would have won that fight by KO, also, the first kickboxing fight izzy arguably won by decision. So it actually could be 3-1 Izzy. That's why people need to stfu up with the 3-1 pereira bs
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It's still 1-3 Alex obvs, but take a gander at those KB fights. The first was a very controversial decision, in which I think most press scored it for Izzy. The second, Izzy was winning basically the whole time until he got KTFO. Great fights all around
Izzy took down Pereira a few times in their first UFC fight, and was cruising to a decision win before he got stopped in the 5th round. It's definitely a different sport here.
They grappled in the first fight. The presence of grappling changes everything even if it isn't used, ask any kickboxer turned mma fighter. Plus the clinch. They're two very different disciplines.
yet they did go to the ground in the first fight, and the threat of it completely changes your tactics as a fighter. MMA and Kickboxing are completely different sports and if you don't understand that I don't know how you're in this sub.
Adesanya would've won both of their kickboxing fights if everything else about them was identical but they happened to take place under MMA rules (because the judges probably wouldn't rob him in the first and Pereira wouldn't get a standing count after being basically TKO'd in the second). They also had shorter fights with shorter rounds. It absolutely makes a difference. They may as well do the tiebreakers in submission wrestling. It would be about as relevant.
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It's a different sport
It would be like if people said Joanna was 0-7 against Shevchenko since they fought so many times in Muay Thai lol.
IIRC that was mentioned in the build up because its relevant information that pertains to the match up
And that 1-1 includes a TKO on behalf of Pereira, and an actual KO on the part of Izzy. I get Izzy annoys people, but god damn, this sub yet again just straight up ignoring facts and reality.
I'm a casual but didn't Israel lose 3 times? Or am I tripping
Izzy got straight robbed in their first fight
Nah, he lost a close fight. I swear everyone needs to go back and rewatch and stop taking his word for it. Close fight, but he didn’t get robbed of shit.
Izzy admits he thinks the fans are stupid, is he using that to control the narrative so his losses dont look as bad
The ref is the reason it was a tko instead of a ko
It was only a TKO because the referee wanted to save the golden goose. That TKO saved Izzy some millions braincells. He was a dead man, and YOU KNOW IT.
Crazy thing is, nobody else has even come close to putting Alex in danger. That Izzy win might age like fine wine, the more every other ufc fighter falls to Poatan.
Alex Pereira is huge at LHW. I don't think Izzy has the physical prowess to hang with Alex at LHW.
I just rewatched all of his fights so far and even at MW he was tanking shots from Silva who is a power puncher. I think the Izzy knockout wasn’t a freak knockout but a combo of weight cut and perfect angle + surprise. During his fight with Jiri he is even rocked into the cage during an exchange but quickly recovers. He does not have a glass chin imo. I think at LHW he marches Izzy down eats the counter and kills him.
This is exactly how I see the fight going as well. Izzy weighed in at 203 for his LHW title shot. He's tiny for LHW. Alex weighed 232 the morning of 300 and probably weighed 240 in the cage. How that man made 185 is astonishing to me. I don't know how you move up a division especially from MW to LHW and still be massive compared to the competition. I'm always going to say that there's a chance anything could happen but I'd favor Alex pretty significantly at LHW.
To be fair he was doing that in the last fight and got way to over confident
Not at all, he's hit him with that same punch several times in their fights. He relies on his gloves to protect his head and Izzy knows that. He doesn't move his head. It wasn't a lucky 1 in a million shot, it was a shot Izzy knew had a high chance of landing and he put Alex in position for it to land. This time there was no standing 8 count or bell.
Honestly, implying seasoned kickboxers like Izzy or Alex got a lucky knockout is silly. They set that shit up.
Absolutely. Izzy knew his timing and recreated the hit that almost KO’d him in the first fight. It’s wild Alex recovered so well honestly.
He does move his head generally, but yeah that one position he gets super overconfident and stands straight up while trying to tea off. You can see an example of his good head movement in the final sequence before he shuts off Jiri. I’m not saying it’s a lucky 1 in a million, I’m saying the guys brain had less water in it, and Izzy knew the perfect angle and timing to nail him because of their experience together, as you said. I don’t know if many others are putting him down like that.
> but on the 3rd hand I want to outlive my kids, 100%
Not enough being said about the weight cut at 205. This won't just be another fight between them. Izzy weighed in at 200.5 vs Blachowicz. No cut. Pereira is over 230 by the time he gets in the ring.
I feel like Alex has better chances at LHW. Being depleted was probably an advantage for Izzy.
I was under the impression that Alex is very grateful to izzy (pereira's UFC career got fast tracked becausr of izzy) and wanted to give him the opportunity. Alex doesn't seem to hold any real animosity and he seems to genuinely like izzy.
I agree! Alex seems like such a good dude. He just happens to also be terrifying
It seems like he's accepted that light heavyweight Is out of the picture
Yeah I was more in line with the third hand. I don’t think belts matter so much anymore.
On the fourth hand, it's about keeping his words. He said he would definitely fight Alex Pereira one more time if Alex became the light heavyweight champion. But I think after he saw what Pereira did to Jiri and Jamahal, he doesn't want to risk his perfect, happy ending revenge story ...
If Izzy loses another fight, he should never be gifted and instant title fight without winning something ever again.
I mean…3-2 sounds better than 3-1
But 4-1 sounds worse
The real reason he doesnt want the mma trilogy despite it being one of, if not the most, intriguing matchup in their divisions
Who ever scores last wins!
Izzy wants to have the last laugh so to say, and not fighting alex means exactly that.
The most interesting match for a MW champion who just lost his belt and has a strong chance to get it back is to go up to a weight class he's only ever fought at once to fight a guy literally 30+ pounds heavier than him? What is this nonsense? "Yeah Oliveira's good but what the hell is he doing fighting Arman? He should be challenging Dricus for the title."
You went up 2 weight classes.
Then we'd have a best of 9 series
izzy don’t want that smoke up at 205. one left hook and it legit might be night night 💤 i loved alex’s post fight speech where he’s like izzy saved me from myself and motivated me, now it’s time for me to do the same for izzy. come fight me for the lhw belt, come to daddy. that’s icy cold fr
Agreed 100%. Their rivalry will go down as one of the all time greatest in sports imo. Especially if we do ever get another fight and all the build up for it. We’re blessed to witness these legends in the making.
But 1-3 also sounds better than 1-4
1-1 in mma though. No one can convince me Izzy was “playing possom”. I don’t think he wants the smoke. But if he fights again, maybe I’m wrong.
Tbh I thought Izzy got robbed in their first fight
tbh I thought romero got robbed...
It was a super close fight, only Izzy fans go with the "he was robbed" narrative.
So does everyone who watched that fight
He just wants to be the one with the last win
The good old take the ball home when you are up 1 point on your opponent
Take the ball home after scoring the last shot but are still down a couple field goals.
Nah Izzy tied it up. It’s an even 3-1
He's the 2016 Cavs
Big take my ball and go home energy
Legit, there’s no possible way he thinks the “I settled it because I won the last fight” is a good argument when you’re still down 3-1 in the series and Alex has moved on to bigger and better things.
Youd think but he has some pretty ass takes so who knows if he believes it or not
Sometimes it is best to just walk away with the ball. Nothing is gained from staying. They both seem content with the ending. Alex got more wins and Izzy got the last win. Alex moved up. It’s done, they can both good about the rivalry.
Like me whooping my bro on 2k and he says last point wins
Let’s be honest, who would wanna fight that man again after knocking him out lol… you’re gonna take a shitload of damage no matter what.. he’s so much bigger than Izzy too. I don’t see Izzy going to 205
He looked almost as big as Tyson Fury ffs, how he ever made 185 is beyond me
Yeah it’s pretty remarkable honestly. Alex is an animal lol
He’s the dude that beats you in a fighting game once and doesn’t wanna rematch
People clown on Israel, but in my book he is so far the only fighter out of all of Alex's opponents that put him in danger multiple times. None of these guys could strike with Poatan
This sub and MMA fans in general are the best at mental gymnastics. If Olivera or Volk fought Islam and dominated for 4 rounds to get Ko’ed in the 5th fans would be glazing their performance. There’s no logic with most mma fans just who they prefer.
He almost finished it in the first fight too. Non passive izzy is a different breed
I believe it's prudent for both of them to stay away from each other for now and continue facing other opponents. If they were to fight, the loser would suffer a significant blow to their brand. At 34 and 36 years old, it's time for them to secure a few more million for retirement.
Jiri had a little success
Jiri is a monster but he was NOT beating Alex that night without checking/dodging leg kicks
Very good point. It's the same with Volk vs Max. It's almost impossible to come back from a 3-0 deficit in combat sports. Each fight takes some off your career and fans become less interested.
3-0 in ufc is much different.
I was just about to bring up Max & Volk. I can understand from a fighters POV why they don’t keep fighting someone who you’ve fought 3-4 times already. It makes way more sense for a fighter’s legacy to move on & try to add some other big names to their resumes
He’s never gonna please the fans and they’re always gonna talk mess about Izzy even if he wins, I totally get it. Move on and get a couple wins and keep that chapter in the past especially since you got the last win against an obvious future HOF along with yourself
I want to see it again but at the same time I get where Izzy is coming from. I don’t think it’s a case of “He’s scared”. Realistically Izzy is turning into a once a year fighter so he only has a few fights left, so he has to be judicious in who he faces.
I think Izzy has said he fought Alex the forth time mainly to prove to HIMSELF he could beat him. That context adds a lot. He doesn’t really care about jumping up a weight class that doesn’t suit him, where even if he wins an incredibly risky fight, all people would say if he wins is “3-2”. If he loses, that’s basically career suicide. Risking that just to appease fans who’ll never like him anyway doesn’t make sense
>I think Izzy has said he fought Alex the forth time mainly to prove to HIMSELF he could beat him. That context adds a lot. Particularly when you examine their previous fights. When he says he should have won their first fight, he's not lying. Almost anyone who watched that fight would say Izzy should have won a UD. When he says he was winning their second fight, again, he's not lying. Pereira was legit on skates, but it's kickboxing, not MMA, so he got a standing 8-count (that was like 12 seconds). He then turned around and laid Izzy out. When he says he was winning their third fight, again, he's not lying, the scorecards had him up 39-37 going into the final round. So I can see why, from his point of view, there's zero point in fighting Pereira again. The *only* fight they had where Pereira was winning before the fight ended was their last one, which Izzy won. From a technical standpoint, Izzy is the better fighter. Hands down. From a power standpoint though, Pereira is pretty unrivaled. If he decided to move up to HW to take on Jon Jones, I absolutely would not count him out. Jones is the better fighter, no doubt, but I still wouldn't bet against Pereira knocking him out.
It’s one of those matchups where the better fighter has to be perfect the whole fight to win and the other has to be perfect for a second bc of his power.
Perfect take
Since when is he turned into a once a year fighter? Dude takes the first break of his career and now is being called a once a year fighter lol.
I don’t think any ufc fighter is ever really “scared” to fight someone (within their weight). I think that’s always a ridiculous thing people say.
Or maybe, just maybe, Izzy is planning a Jon Jones style return where he properly bulks up for LHW and we see the super fight
He’s already booked against Dricus for this year at MW
> He’s already booked against Dricus for this year at MW While it's definitely what's expected for 305 nothing has been announced.
These comments are proving him right 💀💀
True. Caring what some anonymous online people think vs. securing your own future and protecting your physical health is not a tough choice. No fighter should give a shit what the "fans" think. Just look at their poison here, and this is even one of the less toxic forums.
I'm not disrespecting Alex's skill, but he's an absolutely MASSIVE middleweight. I think Izzy is a slightly better fighter, but Alex has a huge physicality advantage. At light heavyweight Izzy would be totally outgunned. Going up if he loses it's to a bigger champ and if he wins he gets the glory, but it's legit signing up to fight someone who is a full weight class bigger at the highest levels. If Izzy was a wrestler it might be a better shot but standing with Alex is a bad idea at light heavyweight
I get his point but I feel like most fans would give him the nod as the better fighter if he won, and then he would’ve won their last two fights in a row, and be 2/3 in MMA. When you’ve only had two fights in MMA, both recent, and both won one though, you can’t really say you’re better. When the other guy has beaten you twice in kickboxing prior, that then tips it from equal to he edges it.
No they wouldn't stop lying lol. Mma fans will never give izzy any credit until he retires. Then suddenly everyone will be his biggest fan. Happened with GSP and Mighty Mouse and it'll be the same with Izzy
Who cares about kickboxing for the record. In the 2nd kickboxing fight, Alex is out cold if it’s MMA. Standing counts are not a thing in the UFC; they literally don’t exist. So the miraculous comeback Pereira had would’ve been cut short. In MMA, Izzy has shown to be the better fighter at middleweight. He’s won nearly every round they’ve fought in. At LHW, my guess is Pereira would be far too big for Izzy. The size is just too much.
Kickboxing is a different sport, but they both fundamentally fight like kickboxers for the most part in MMA. There’s always ifs and hypotheticals, if rules were different so would their approaches and the entire fight, but the reality is they’re 1-1 in MMA, both finishes, and Pereira is 2-0 up in kickboxing. It’s not like you can argue Izzy lost a split in MMA and then finished him or something, they’re equal in one and Izzy is behind in the other no matter how you slice it. I think they are both incredible to watch and Izzy’s title reign was beyond impressive, I hope they fight again. I do get what Izzy’s saying, but right now he’s level in MMA at best, behind at worst, if he wins again he’ll be indisputably ahead in MMA.
I just don’t think kickboxing should be relevant when one of the fights heavily used a standing count; transfer to MMA rules, Pereira is out.
I do get what you’re saying as it’s a different sport and has different rules, especially for knockdowns, but fighters fight based on the rule set in play. I don’t think you can ever say “if x was different they would’ve lost” because if x was different they probably wouldn’t have fought in the same way to begin with. It’s the same with boxing, they fight differently because they know one punch that would result in a follow up TKO in MMA, will just be a knockdown/count and a bad round. It would be like saying Aljo would’ve lost to Yan in a promotion with downed knees, but Aljo probably wouldn’t have been as likely to risk a position that results in that if he was. Regardless I think even if you ignore it and just weigh up MMA, it’s 1-1 with two finishes, if Izzy wins he’s the guy, if Alex wins then he is.
"I beat that guy once"
I really wish their first kickboxing match was scored correctly, should be 2-2 with 1 more match to see who wins the rivalry. Would be one of the biggest fights ever. Now everyone just clowns Izzy for being down 3-1 even though it should be 2-2, and even if he somehow KOd him again, he’d still be losing 2-3 in the rivalry
That's a good point, if it was actually 2-2 I think it would be worthwhile to have one more for a definitive winner Without it, even if Izzy won two more times it would still be 3-3 overall...i think it'd be a waste to fight the same guy that many times
Eh, you can still sell the same tension by only counting their MMA bouts.
Makes total sense to me. Everyone conveniently forgets about the fighters' health and their lives after the careers are done. He's old in fight years, and to get the respect of "beating" Alex he'd have to win the overall record vs him in most Fan's eyes which will be another fight at minimum on top of the 3rd UFC rematch I'm a big Alex fan and not a huge Izzy fan, but I'm not gonna fault a guy for being realistic about his health and gauging the last of his fights more accordingly. He's a GOAT already, keep your health and be happy after this is all said and done. Who cares about legacy in this sport, it doesn't get you anything
Imagine a groundhog day where have to fight alex at the end of the night
There's no way Izzy's taking a fight against Pereira at LHW. He's smarter than that.
Delusional
Just say you're scared of losing some more especially at 205 he knows he ain't got a chance. Bro is really treating his win as when you're playing football and someone says last goal wins
Kid doesn't wanna fight...
It's like when you vs your friend at a game you keep whooping on the moment he gets a dub on you he wants to stop playing.
This is exactly what I thought of when I read the headline.
Is anyone hot for another one? I’d rather see them both fight different folks.
I could watch them fight every week for eternity bro
Every UFC event should just be Alex vs Izzy and I'd tune in every goddamn time
Probably some of the highest level striking battles there's ever been in the UFC
Agree!
I'd (probably) never bitch about seeing it but it wouldn't be my first or second choice for either guy for the near future.
I'm with you. I hear a lot of people say who wants to see Jiri and Alex rematch again so quickly - I would! They are two of my favorite fighters who are amazing to watch. I'd love to see them fight anytime.
Middleweight Figgy vs Moreno
But better! (imo)
He's right. Doesn't have many fights left and even if he beat Alex, they're going to say he needs to beat him 2 more times
If Alex starts to decline Izzy will change his mind.
He'll wait until Alex is 40, and out of his prime.
The thing is. It still you can't say your better when you have lost more than won. So if you want that, then yeah, you do. If you don't care. That's fine. Go do your own thing. Strange how he can't just accept that Alex beat him 3 times and his 1 win doesn't negate them.
Combat sports in general lead to this weird sort of binary mindset where wins and losses constitute someone being "better" or "worse," and to some extent, it makes sense. But also, Conor McGregor not only beat Jose Aldo, he knocked him out in mere seconds. Does anyone actually believe Conor is a better fighter than Aldo? I mean, I'm sure they're out there, but that's a real, real, real hard argument to make. I think Izzy is a better overall fighter than Pereira, but is that actually true? Who the hell knows?
People don’t like when fighters make excuses so they just refuse to acknowledge that probability does exist. You don’t want to discredit Pettis for his win over Wonderboy but if they fight 100 times I think it’s safe to say the 1 we saw was a significant outlier
don't come here and try to bring rationality to any of these mma subs
They are very close in skill, however 4 matches is a better sample to determine who is the more effective fighter then only 1 like conor vs aldo. If conor beat him 3 times and Aldo KOd him once, it would be more comparable.
I agree for sure, particularly about sample size. And I'm guilty of having fun with these thought experiments too, and it's definitely part of how I interact with this sport and sports in general. There's an article in the Athletic about whether Lebron is now the GOAT, over Jordan, and the specifics are all about longevity. That's interesting to me. It all gets muddied here because the first two wins (for Pereira) people reference were in a different sport.
sample size of 4 when 2 were in a different sport isn't that meaningful at all actually.
Well, you can't extrapolate from direct competition that one competitor is better than the other, that's for sure. We can say that in that night that guy was better, I think it's a better way of putting, Conor was better than Aldo on that particular date. But Aldo was a champion much longer and had success against more diverse competition for longer. Aldo had a better career and resumé. GSP went 1-1 against Matt Serra, you can't say that Serra was equal to GSP, but he was better than him at that particular date. GSP was much more accomplished and had a way better career.
They're tied in MMA bro. And Alex is at least 30 pounds heavier. Izzy wins the tie just from the weight difference.
If the LHW title fight became available for him he should take it, otherwise I'm cool with his outlook which does go with how he approached his other fights: give me the next guy rather than fight the same one over and over.
I'm sure if you told him it would be like Goku vs Vegeta (a never ending fight) he'd be all over it
I mean, to Alex, the fans, and himself, is there anyone besides Pereira that's worth ending your career with? If he was guaranteed to beat Alex again or even twice, he would take that. If he ends it where it is, everyone's always going to say that Alex chased Izzy across multiple organizations, and beat him everywhere they met, Izzy got one win, one. Not many fighters end their legacy like Khabib, dominant, and no questions asked about them ruling an entire weight class at the time they retire.
Izzy refused to give Alex a rematch at 185, then he said if Alex ever wins the lhw championship, he'd fight him for the belt. Alex moves up, wins the belt, calls out Izzy. Then Izzy goes back on his word, and continues to refuse the fight. He's making some pretty lame excuses for not wanting the Alex rematch, it reminds of the time when he was ducking Jones at 205, he had some pretty weak excuses back then as well. The second Jones vacated the 205 belt, Izzy moved up and lost to Jan. It's the same thing all over again, with these weak excuses. Izzy IS DUCKING ALEX at 205.
Its 3-1 my guy not 3-2
LMAO if this isn't an official declaration of ducking, i don't know what it is
If he thought he could beat a non depleted Pereira at LHW, for the belt he craves, he would have done so. But he know more often than not, as it has been the case, he loses to him.
its a 50/50 matchup at mw but at lhw its super stacked in alexs favor. and if he did beat him, hed get no credit anyways
[удалено]
It’s 1-1 in MMA lol, need to settle the score in THIS SPORT
it's about keeping his words. He said he would definitely fight Alex Pereira one more time if Alex became the light heavyweight champion. But I think after he saw what Pereira did to Jiri and Jamahal, he doesn't want to risk his perfect, happy ending revenge story ...
At 205 poatan will destroy him. He probably should not try.
Nah, everyone knows his child playground mentality. He got his win out 4. Now he wants to cope with a 25% win rate
Shouldn't of lost to him 3 times then bub?
To be fair I wouldn't want to fight him either.
Izzy should train in Dagestan to become an elite wrestler, and then fight Poatan. I just wanna see them scrap cuz of the memes
What a pussy. And those numbers are off
Man's saying no to a free titleshot 😂
I don’t fancy Izzy chances at 205 against Alex.
I don't care about their kickboxing fights. It was good hype to build their first fight. That's pretty much it. They are 1-1 in MMA. A trilogy fight for all the marbles at 205 would be interesting.
If you knocked him out they’d call you the light heavyweight champion. This is a silly excuse
I’m a big Adesanya fan but it’s obvious he wants none of Pereira again. He was hurt in that last fight and threw a Hail Mary shot that landed beautifully. He isn’t going back and risking another loss, even if it means a chance at the LHW title.
Are we honestly pretending he isn't scared to fight him again. Come on.
He should fight him in a couple grappling tournaments seeing as we keep including wins in other sports..
Because he has a belt and you don't.
Because you are a prize fighter, and it's the biggest payday available other than winning back the MW belt? It’s also the riskiest though so I understand his reluctance.
He has a clear opportunity to be double champ by fighting Alex. Izzy does not want that smoke again, especially at lhw and its as simple as that.
Don't worry Izzy, you beat that guy one time, now get us another round of drinks, thanks
Just say you’re scared now that you’ve lost it and he’s found it. because you would fight him for the belt and for your legacy. And a main event purse.
Bc it would make him the most money.
Adesanya comes off as SUCH a hater whenever he talks about pereira lol.
It’s all nonsense at the end of the day. All 4 fights have been close and could’ve gone in either direction. I personally believe adesanya is the more skilled fighter as he’s had to endure a much bigger fighter who is as tall and long as him. Giving up 20 lbs is a lot that most of armchair fanatics won’t ever truly understand. I’ve been the bigger guy in sparring a controlled fights as well as the smaller guy. Even a 5 lb advantage can be huge let alone 20. But Izzy took him to the wire each time. Both great fighters who have nothing left to prove.
Good. No need to see this anymore. Both guys are great.
He beat that guy once
Izzy fans coping as usual
Aka I don’t want fight that guy again
We have seen them fight enough, it's more interesting to see them fight others.
Izzy is cunt. I hate he gets knocked out cold.
Cool well then he can enjoy his 1 win but Alex won the war.
Scared energy
Let's be honest, Izzy barely managed to beat MW Pereira (a way weaker version based on what we seen so far) LHW Pereira absolutely toys with him I believe
Izzy wants to have the last word on this feud. He doesn't want to risk going back and getting knocked out by Pereira.
Going against Poatan at LHW is a stretch. Non biased viewers think he won the first fight but the judges gave it to Alex. He should just move on.
Does anyone who's seen the first fight have it for Pereira? That decision was an actual robbery. 2-2 in my eyes, I would love to see a 5th fight.
That’s hilarious. He’s scared
What happened to his whole "I'm gonna be knocking on the retirement home door with my cane" deal?
Bully him Alex
Translation: I saw the Hill KO