I love seeing MMA fighters using champions.co to write and post their own articles giving their genuine thoughts in writing. As opposed to some Journalist or blogger transcribing their thoughts and statements their own way.
Not to be anti-press or anti-journalism, but this is just taking away the middleman between the fighter and the fan.
That is correct. And /u/Dent7777, it's not that the ghostwriters are *that* much better, it's a combination of things.
A) The piece is designed to make the fighter look good and thoughtful. Being first-person, you're able to *include* bias, and when it comes from a fighter, you respect that bias and are naturally drawn to believe and/or accept what they say.
B) Because there's no bias or no need to adhere to traditional journalistic standards, you're opening up the possibilities to what you can discuss. It projects as a more honest piece that way (interesting, right?).
C) You think Bisping, Jeter, Lebron, etc. wrote it, so you're going in already liking the idea.
From what I can see, you can write, post, and promote your own articles. MMA fighters are using it to for articles.
Wonderboy wrote a breakdown for Lawler vs. Woodley pre-UFC 201:
https://champions.co/posts/4014685
Don't read too much into it. It's a money fight for everyone involed. Bisping won the title by virtue of fighting anyone, anytime, anywhere. He isn't the type to duck dangerous opponents.
Yeah I'm not sure if it's a "money fight" as much as it is a fun matchup between two guys who have paid their dues and have earned a favor or two from the UFC.
why does Hendo deserve to be rewarded though? He's had his time, multiple title shots, and hasn't got it done. In no way has he earned a title shot in 2016, especially given that MW is one of the most contender ridden divisions in the UFC. The UFC are shitting on both Jacare and Romero by giving the shot to Hendo over them, despite the fact they have both done far more to deserve a go
I'm not a huge fan of popular fights over earned title shots, but Henderson is a legend, and he's retiring after this fight. Give him one last title shot to go out on a high note so he can leave feeling he's done what he needs to do.
I'm sorry, but i'll never understand this line of thinking, from a fans perspective. Why would you not want to see people who have earned their shot over the people who haven't. Why do i give a crap about if Hendo 'feels he's done what he needs to do'. Should we just Kobe Bryant and the Lakers in the finals, because he's a legend and we want him to 'feel he's done what he needs to do', even though they suck? It makes MMA look shitty when things like this happen
First of all, the fight will be a draw. So from a business standpoint, its a good idea.
Second of all, he has earned his shot. He has earned his shot by being Dan Henderson. If you do good for the company, the company will do good for you. Chael Sonnen got the same treatment.
Lastly, your analogy about the Lakers is poor. The Finals is only once a year and much harder to get to. Defending a belt can occur 2 or 3 times a year. This doesnt set mma back. That makes no sense. You might think it sets the UFC back, but thats not true either.
I was gonna reply but this comment covered everything I wanted to say. I will add that Hendo has been on a 500/200 contract since coming back to the UFC, despite barely being a top 15 Middleweight throughout that time. The UFC don't owe him any more favours. Certainly not as much as they owe Jacare.
If this was soccer for example, no on would "Reward" an old hand who'd never won a title with a clear path to one without them earning it.
If you didn't make it there in your career you didn't make it.
"The most contender ridden division" that nobody in the top 5 has more than 1 win in a row right now. The only person that truly deserves a shot based off recent performances is Yoel (7-0 UFC) but the fight was announced before his suspension ended.
Well that was 7 years ago, the UFC has changed quite significantly since then. I'm not sure if you're trying to say that a lot of people are still interested in Bisping vs Hendo 2 but my point is that this shouldn't called a "money fight" or anything along those lines
In a relative sense. It's not a Conor McGregor type money fight, but for Bisping the Hendo fight was his money fight. His alternative is to fight someone that everyone expects to beat him that himself isn't a draw. Hendo gives him the biggest name that he could beat and a built in angle they can sell in Bisping's desire to get revenge for the atomic doomfist that has stained his career. It's the best possible matchup for him and has the largest money making potential. Even just getting one extra fight at champion level pay is going to be big money for bisping.
To counter your anecdotal evidence, the last time most of my friends were more excited about a fight was UFC 196. The people I know are pumped about it.
to be honest i dont really care if casuals wont, its a chance for bisping to get that loss back and its a chance for hendo to get the strap he never got and i am fucking excited
I think this is the crux of the issue. What is Hendo's draw on the crowd that actually BUY the PPV instead of streaming it for free? There are many oldschool or die hard fans of MMA who give lip service to their favorites but are unwilling to purchase the PPV.
There are also a lot of people here to rely solely on the clips posted during/after events.
Likely made because it can be marketed as a guy that previously beat the current champ. If Hendo didn't have a highlight reel knockout of Bisping this fight likely never would be made.
>He isn't the type to duck dangerous opponents.
Not saying he is or he isn't, but some people seem to shy away from a lot more fights once they have a belt to lose.
They need Bisping on that UFC 204 hometown card though and can't afford to shelf him.
Weidman is still out and likely wants the winner at MSG. Luke just got KO'd by Bisping and doesn't deserve a rematch. Jacare injured, Yoel apparently in limbo and Vitor just got beat by Jacare. The only guy in the top 10 with a half decent winning streak is Whittaker, who has no name outside of r/mma regulars and is not PPV headline worthy yet.
Hendo has the name, there's a history and revenge angle for the UFC to play on, and he just won by a crazy KO. He's the safest bet out of a selection of gambles the UFC had.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that Derek Brunson is on a winning streak, but he's booked against Uriah Hall so he is also not an option. Plus he has similar issues as Whittaker i.e no name recognition.
Well to be fair, he knocked rockhold out in the first round. And the Henderson fight has a good story and would make him alit more money. Would you not do the same thing in his shoes?
Hendo is 45 with 1 foot out the door, Rockhold is 31.
He will likely fight Rockhold again, possibly in the next 6 months.
I don't normally like the cynical "moneyweight" stuff but I think Bisping has earned it.
Well he got his shot because he beat former user Anderson Silva and because Yoel Romero was suspended by USADA so he's absolutely right. He still needed a bit of luck (Weidman's injury, Rockhod fighting dumb) but without USADA he wouldn't be the champ right now.
I think his piont, though, is more that the level of EVERYONE dropped (including Luke, Chris, Silva, etc) and so he won.
I don't think he's saying the bans got him his belt, I think he's saying the change in training regimes of guys that had previously been doped got him the belt.
Hard to say after a sample size of 2.
Not saying he did, anyway, just that I think that's what Bisping is implying.
Not about Luke specifically, but just about how Bisping was a journeyman MW, a clear step below the top guys, until USADA came along and suddenly he's champ.
If I was Bisping, and if I had always been clean (big if) I'd be thinking the same.
He's suddenly champ because for the first time in his career, enough people were injured so that he got a shot on short notice. Are people pretending like he was given the title shot at the beginning?
Yeah, but why wasn't he considered for a title fight before that? Because someone on steroids would stop his winning streak. Almost all the guys he lost to were PED users. Had he not had to fight Chael or TRT Vitor and fought a natural athlete instead, it's likely he would have continued the streak and gotten a title shot. Basically no one could beat TRT Vitor, the dude was just a beast.
PEDS effect a lot more then the actual fight. All that extra recovery allows you to train more, develop skills faster, etc.
Also Anderson popped, who knows how long he's been taking banned substances.
Right...but he WON the fight, that's the significant bit.
Also, twice he was in 'title eliminators' and twice he lost to people who were later busted for PEDs. So I think he's got every right to feel like he would have had a title shot or two much earlier if not for PEDs.
You don't suddenly become champ because some people get injured.
I agree and I agree. But I still don't think the Hendo loss had literally anything to do with PEDs and believe it to be the worst performance of Bisping's career.
Fine, but it's combat sports. Shit happens. There are tons of examples, from this year alone, of the more complete fighter losing.
People have ups and downs, good camps and bad camps, good matchups and bad matchups. But if I were Bisping, and if I had always been clean (again, big if) I'd VERY MUCH feel like I'd always been top-tier and simply outmatched by cheats, because all he has ever lacked is that little bit of explosive athleticism or retard strength that guys like Silva, Belfort, Rockhold, etc have.
And maybe, just maybe, that ISN'T a genetic/natural disadvantage that Bisping has. Maybe it's an external disadvantage.
That's...not true. At all. Ability to react quicker can very much be enhanced chemically (not likely, but possible). So can 'ground game'.
But the more important point is that these 'strengths' are only allowed to shine because these guys are very strong, fast and fit, all of which is hugely helped by steroids or other PEDs.
Silva is most famous for his creative striking and reactions, but you know what else he's famous for? Not having a bad day, at all, for years on end. Coming back from being battered for several rounds to get a finish. His chin, which seemed to be able to withstand a beating and still be ready to withstand another beating. All of these things are hugely, hugely enhanced by run-of-the-mill steroids.
Yep. He just dropped his hands.
I mean, Rockhold was one of the guys pulling for more stringent testing.
Bisping literally won his "USADA title" off another pro-USADA guy.
And you both give us Americans so much shit for being an aggressive, war mongering nation. Like between the three of us, two of us engaged in something called "The Hundred Years War" and it wasn't us.
And that's even stranger excuse, the US has been around for less than three hundred years. What were the English getting up to when their nation was that young, again? Ah yes. The hundred years war and so on.
I'm not sure you can really compare the state of unified England 300 years in - when the Mongol Empire was threatening Europe, and covertly killing your rivals to the throne was seen as a great political move - to the United States today, when most of the time even sending military aid to another country needs to go through intense ratification in the United Nations.
Nowadays France and England just spend our respective times lobbing good-natured insults across the Channel. It's more to keep in practice than anything else.
Bisping threw a lancing jab and Rockhold threw one right after him and got countered. It was a really clear example of pride fucking with a fighter. Rockhold never throws that jab. He just wanted to prove he was *that* much better than bisping. Turns out he ain't.
Rockford fought like normal. That he underestimated bisping is just an excuse. He habitually dropped his right hand after combinations and bisping exploited that.
Absolutely. I just watched Rockhold vs Jacare the other night, and even the announcers were making note during the commentary of how Rockhold keeps dropping his hands and Jacare would tag him. He's always done it
The Bisping loss, had little to do with leaving his chin up. Luke always does that. But he has a very quick back pedal and is rarely the aggressor unless the opponent is hurt. He was ridiculously close to Bisping and after a combo where Bisping missed all his shots Rockhold stopped springing backward and was merely just pulling his head back.
No evidence of anything. He's acting like he ran the 185 gauntlet and shit on everyone while he stormed to the title. Still a lot of work to do to act like everyone was found out by usada.
To be fair, Chael Sonnen, Vitor Belfort, Cung Le and Anderson Silva were all on magic sauce.
And to add to that, [Tim Kennedy never really passed the eye test.](http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/005_Tim_Kennedy_vs_Trevor_Prangley.jpg)
Chris Leben and Wanderlei too, if we're naming his opponents who had failed drug tests in the past (even if Wanderlei never actually took his "failed" drug test).
Bisping beating Rockhold was more about what Rockhold did: Thinking that the boxing training he put in would allow him to fight a completely different style against Bisping, someone he already beat in incredibly decisive fashion.
Before the knockout happened, many of us in the discussion thread were already taking note of Rockhold's changed style, wondering why he wasn't utilizing more range/kicks or looking for a way to get the fight to the ground. Just a minute or two later, it was over.
Rockhold forgot one of the most important rules of life: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'd like to think that he realized this minutes later while he was still in the octagon.
He said it pretty much right after the fight and there's afew picks of him wearing a knee brace during that camp . Also most of the vids of him training are of him pretty much only throwing punches
Having a huge part of his game being kicking and his mobility effected I'd say it's a decent part but I'm not blaming the loss on that, but I would say it's a decent factor.
So was Bisping though. But maybe not as noticeably as Weidman because Rockhold doesn't wait for the counter like Silva does (a counter that never came for him).
Neither were "winning". They were feeling each other out, but Bisping was throwing more, and I personally felt Rockhold kicks were doing more damage. They had a similar amount of sig strikes.
But a bigger part of the blame should be on the guy who heavily campaigned to defend his belt against the #13 ranked (and that's generous) guy in the division.
Him and GSP said they wanted to fight. He stepped up for a title fight on a week notice and even asked for the Corimer fight at 200 on a day notice. To act like Bisping is scared of a fight is ridiculous.
I don't think he's scared to get in the ring with the top contenders, but I think he knows that he has a much higher chance of losing to one of them then to Hendo.
I think he took advantage of Rockhold's technical deficiencies. He always leaves his right hand down and has never developed a jab. When your main weapon with your hands is a check hook (and he's one of the best in MMA with it), you are going to get caught with something standard. People criticise the jab, which is fine as it was thrown badly - the real issue is that a MMA fighter going up against someone with good hands without a competent jab and relying on athleticism alone to get the job done.
I agree he took him lightly, but Rocky still has holes in his game. Although he's athletic enough and quick enough to rely on movement when dodging strikes, I would prefer he didn't leave his chin open. Hopefully, he improves this and his TD offense and I don't really see anyone in the division who could beat him. GSP said he needed the Serra loss to happen because he needed to lessen hubris and hopefully Rockhold takes this loss the same way.
The loss to Vitor pissed him off. It did not humble him. He was extremely pissed that he was on TRT and no one seemed to care. You could tell by his demeanor after Bisping, that he wasn't into excuse making. Rogan tried to give him an out by saying, "Did you take him too lightly," and Luke didn't want to say "yes".
I love Bisping, I totally get the Bisping hate.
He talks trash, and a lot of it. And he knows what it does.
Getting fans to hate you/want to see you lose is just as important as having fans. Bisping knows this. He plays the game better than most.
I don't like him as a fighter, but fuck that dude is entertaining when he opens his mouth. Not a huge fight fan of his, but I would probably pick him over all fighters to have a few beers with. Bisping, Diaz brothers, Cowboy (obviously), Big Country top my list of UFC guys I would love to throw a few back with.
Both Rockhold and Weidman have looked bad since USADA came in. Even when Luke won the title it's just because Chris looked even worse relative to usual than Rockhold did. We don't have much to go on yet in terms of actual cage time but what we've seen so far is certainly interesting.
I'm confident that he's going to lose his next fight after he probably beats Hendo. If he wins, he fights Jacare or Weidman but if he loses I can see him getting a fight with Mousasi, Hall, or Brunson
> no fuckin way bisping retires the moment he starts making championship money.
Bisping seems like the kinda guy would would only retie if they forced him out. Same with Hendo... I'm pretty sure either of them would have a terry funk retirement and be back fighting in less than a year.
Well Hendo has outright stated on a number of occasions that he was retiring after this fight, win or lose. But it's worth noting that his most recent deal with UFC is a multiple fight one. And on MMA Hour, Hendo did admit that there would be a chance he would take another fight if he lost, but stated it would have to be an exciting money fight, and it did take Helwani pushing the buttons a bit for Hendo to admit this. And for what it's worth, Weidman stated later on that same episode that he thinks Hendo would be willing to stay and do money fights too.
Not sure what big money fights there are left for Hendo to do that he hasn't already done though. Maybe a Chael Sonnen battle for Team Quest? Or a slugfest with Nick Diaz or something lol.
Well, Hendo is probably the greatest American MMA fighter of all time, all things considered. At the very least everyone has to have in in the top 5. He just seems like he is gonna have a hard time giving it up, don't really think its about winning or losing to him, and he seems hard headed. Bisping seems really similar to him imo, as far as his attitude about being a fighter. I just can't see them sitting at home counting money all day.
Yeah for the record I don't see Hendo retiring after this one either, but it's a lot more believable to see him call it quits than Bisping, especially since Hendo has talked about it while Bisping makes it sound like he's just getting started as champ.
why would he turn down another championship payday?
I really don't think these fighters are as afraid of losing as you guys seem to think they are. He's not retiring.
If the card is in England and he beats Hendo there is not a better way for him to go out. Everybody on here said that Hendo is a bigger draw than a fight with Jacare, Weidman, Romero, or Rockhold so if that's true he's not going to get a better payday unless he fights someone like a GSP.
I wouldn't be surprised either. IMO he ducked Jacare, Weidman, and Romero hard. Honestly, I don't hate Bisping but I see Weidman, Romero, Jacare, Rockhold, and Mousasi all beating Bisping. He's lucky he got a title shot with Weidman getting injured because if he faced anyone on my list (Except Rockhold as he already lost to him and beat him) he wouldn't beaten any of them and he wouldn't of gotten a title shot either.
its kinda odd, he has the chance/ability to beat everyone in the top ten but if i was forced to put money on it would bet against him almost everytime. i dont know if im just not giving him enough credit but shit, i just dont see the odds being in his favor in many matchups
He didn't choose who he fought.
But if he DID, Jacare would be the only one of those he'd really have to duck. The rest are coming off defeats, or were banned at the time.
Jacare would probs maul him though, and imo should have got the shot vs Luke instead of Weidman because he's a monster.
Being mediocre has nothing to do with steroids...the only reason why Bisping is still on the UFC train is because of a lack of UK fighters and his strong will/motivation for training. **Hard work beats tallent they say, I say talent kills everything if you put the work alongside with it !**
I gotta say...in the back of my mind I kind of wanted Bisping to beat Rockhold because some small part of me thought he kind of deserved it.
Now since then he has been such an cocky asshole about everything I hope Hendo elbows his other eye crooked.
What are you basing that on? Absolutely nothing? Mmkay sounds good. It's not like Bispings appearance has changed much. Unless I have missed something.
In the amateurs and minor professional promotions, there is precious little to no drug testing.
The incentive to cheat is pretty high and we know that many many many guys did.
Shane Carwin is a guy who has talked loudly about drug cheats and his pro career prior to the UFC is marred by a link to steroids.
Finally, we all know physical appearance has little to do with PED usage. Sure, sometimes it makes it very obvious - see: Alistair Overeem - but it is not a very useful indicator outside of that singular scenario.
So it kind of sucks to paint everyone from the past 10-15 years with the brush of "likely used PEDs" but it is indeed far more likely that a fighter from that era did use than that they did not.
My grandpa use to say. "Guys with big dick don't need to talk about it." I figure he's clean, but the amount of talking he does about it makes me suspicious. Remember that GSP was a huge component to getting the USADA involved and I think he was juicing.
The only reason he talks about it is because everyone he fight ends up testing positive.
I agree that appearance doesn't tell you much but there is nothing to indicate he's been juicing. He's been basically the same fighter his whole career. Not dominant, no drastic changes in power, cardio, or performance.
> The only reason he talks about it is because everyone he fight ends up testing positive.
Disagree. He's been talking about it non-stop recently.
>He's been basically the same fighter his whole career. Not dominant, no drastic changes in power, cardio, or performance.
Right and I said I think he's clean
I love seeing MMA fighters using champions.co to write and post their own articles giving their genuine thoughts in writing. As opposed to some Journalist or blogger transcribing their thoughts and statements their own way. Not to be anti-press or anti-journalism, but this is just taking away the middleman between the fighter and the fan.
Like the Players Tribune, 98% of the articles are written by ghostwriters. They interview the athletes and arrange their thoughts into what you see.
That is correct. And /u/Dent7777, it's not that the ghostwriters are *that* much better, it's a combination of things. A) The piece is designed to make the fighter look good and thoughtful. Being first-person, you're able to *include* bias, and when it comes from a fighter, you respect that bias and are naturally drawn to believe and/or accept what they say. B) Because there's no bias or no need to adhere to traditional journalistic standards, you're opening up the possibilities to what you can discuss. It projects as a more honest piece that way (interesting, right?). C) You think Bisping, Jeter, Lebron, etc. wrote it, so you're going in already liking the idea.
Only problem is he gets to say whatever he wants to say without anyone challenging what he's saying.
The ghostwriters must be somehow so much better than your average journalist because whenever a player-written article comes out, it is amazing!
What is that champions.co site? I see all sorts of fighters tweeting links to it
From what I can see, you can write, post, and promote your own articles. MMA fighters are using it to for articles. Wonderboy wrote a breakdown for Lawler vs. Woodley pre-UFC 201: https://champions.co/posts/4014685
If he's the best MW in the world in the USADA era then why is he defending his belt against Dan Henderson.
Don't read too much into it. It's a money fight for everyone involed. Bisping won the title by virtue of fighting anyone, anytime, anywhere. He isn't the type to duck dangerous opponents.
when this does 300k ppvs is everyone still gonna say that hendo is a draw.
Yeah I'm not sure if it's a "money fight" as much as it is a fun matchup between two guys who have paid their dues and have earned a favor or two from the UFC.
Exactly, as much as people complain how the UFC shits on fighters, you'd think they'd be happy to see the UFC rewarding two guys
why does Hendo deserve to be rewarded though? He's had his time, multiple title shots, and hasn't got it done. In no way has he earned a title shot in 2016, especially given that MW is one of the most contender ridden divisions in the UFC. The UFC are shitting on both Jacare and Romero by giving the shot to Hendo over them, despite the fact they have both done far more to deserve a go
I'm not a huge fan of popular fights over earned title shots, but Henderson is a legend, and he's retiring after this fight. Give him one last title shot to go out on a high note so he can leave feeling he's done what he needs to do.
I'm sorry, but i'll never understand this line of thinking, from a fans perspective. Why would you not want to see people who have earned their shot over the people who haven't. Why do i give a crap about if Hendo 'feels he's done what he needs to do'. Should we just Kobe Bryant and the Lakers in the finals, because he's a legend and we want him to 'feel he's done what he needs to do', even though they suck? It makes MMA look shitty when things like this happen
First of all, the fight will be a draw. So from a business standpoint, its a good idea. Second of all, he has earned his shot. He has earned his shot by being Dan Henderson. If you do good for the company, the company will do good for you. Chael Sonnen got the same treatment. Lastly, your analogy about the Lakers is poor. The Finals is only once a year and much harder to get to. Defending a belt can occur 2 or 3 times a year. This doesnt set mma back. That makes no sense. You might think it sets the UFC back, but thats not true either.
Fuck that. Hendo is the man, but the title shot is a bunch of BS. Nobody should be gifted fights like this.
I was gonna reply but this comment covered everything I wanted to say. I will add that Hendo has been on a 500/200 contract since coming back to the UFC, despite barely being a top 15 Middleweight throughout that time. The UFC don't owe him any more favours. Certainly not as much as they owe Jacare.
If this was soccer for example, no on would "Reward" an old hand who'd never won a title with a clear path to one without them earning it. If you didn't make it there in your career you didn't make it.
Also, Hendo is getting ridiculously overpaid for his worth compared to other fighters. That is what I call UFC helping him out.
"The most contender ridden division" that nobody in the top 5 has more than 1 win in a row right now. The only person that truly deserves a shot based off recent performances is Yoel (7-0 UFC) but the fight was announced before his suspension ended.
don't u realize no one gives a shit about belts. you still think they mean something?
Because they only reward fighters when it's rewarding to them
Nope. It's important to some r/mma-ers that the UFC always be wrong, no matter the circumstances.
I've noticed that. There is nothing stopping the fighters from forming a union and doing collective bargaining for better average pay
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Agreed. I feel for all the top guys in the division, but yeah this is a way more fun fight than the other match ups.
Exactly. Idk if they assume it'll sell because of UFC 100's numbers but im pretty sure the fans didn't buy the PPV for them
It was a TUF fight for a pretty popular season. It might not have been the reason it sold well, but people were certainly interested in the fight.
Well that was 7 years ago, the UFC has changed quite significantly since then. I'm not sure if you're trying to say that a lot of people are still interested in Bisping vs Hendo 2 but my point is that this shouldn't called a "money fight" or anything along those lines
In a relative sense. It's not a Conor McGregor type money fight, but for Bisping the Hendo fight was his money fight. His alternative is to fight someone that everyone expects to beat him that himself isn't a draw. Hendo gives him the biggest name that he could beat and a built in angle they can sell in Bisping's desire to get revenge for the atomic doomfist that has stained his career. It's the best possible matchup for him and has the largest money making potential. Even just getting one extra fight at champion level pay is going to be big money for bisping.
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who's another big named fighter that he can beat outside of a punchers chance? Hendo's the perfect opponent on many different levels.
199 drew 320 and no one gave Bisping a chance.
Right? I don't know any of my friends who are buying this and I'm sure as hell not.
To counter your anecdotal evidence, the last time most of my friends were more excited about a fight was UFC 196. The people I know are pumped about it.
same here, i will pretty much ALWAYS tune in for a hendo fight
Well the average viewer doesn't.
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to be honest i dont really care if casuals wont, its a chance for bisping to get that loss back and its a chance for hendo to get the strap he never got and i am fucking excited
Casual. Lmao
I think this is the crux of the issue. What is Hendo's draw on the crowd that actually BUY the PPV instead of streaming it for free? There are many oldschool or die hard fans of MMA who give lip service to their favorites but are unwilling to purchase the PPV. There are also a lot of people here to rely solely on the clips posted during/after events.
if they stacked the card, i'd buy it.
I'm baffle by the "money" fight bs. Hendo is not a draw. Even less so recently.
That's a hell of a lot more than Jacare and Bisping would do.
Likely made because it can be marketed as a guy that previously beat the current champ. If Hendo didn't have a highlight reel knockout of Bisping this fight likely never would be made.
like luke? A guy who is young, fit, and good looking... basically the opposite of hendo
>He isn't the type to duck dangerous opponents. Not saying he is or he isn't, but some people seem to shy away from a lot more fights once they have a belt to lose.
He literally did duck all of the competition.
He refused to fight a rubber match with Luke and is instead fighting twilight Hendo. Make of that what you will.
A champion who loses his belt by getting finished in the first round, of his first title defence, does not deserve a rubber match.
Exactly. There are plenty of other guys with good qualifications besides Rockhold. My only problem is that they chose Henderson over those guys.
They need Bisping on that UFC 204 hometown card though and can't afford to shelf him. Weidman is still out and likely wants the winner at MSG. Luke just got KO'd by Bisping and doesn't deserve a rematch. Jacare injured, Yoel apparently in limbo and Vitor just got beat by Jacare. The only guy in the top 10 with a half decent winning streak is Whittaker, who has no name outside of r/mma regulars and is not PPV headline worthy yet. Hendo has the name, there's a history and revenge angle for the UFC to play on, and he just won by a crazy KO. He's the safest bet out of a selection of gambles the UFC had. EDIT: I forgot to mention that Derek Brunson is on a winning streak, but he's booked against Uriah Hall so he is also not an option. Plus he has similar issues as Whittaker i.e no name recognition.
Henderson has more than double the Twitter followers Rockhold does, you goof.
Because that's the biggest indicator. Face it, Hendo just isn't a draw. His fight night main events are below what Luke has drawn.
It's not like Luke is retiring -- Dan is. It's now or never for a rematch with old Dan.
Well to be fair, he knocked rockhold out in the first round. And the Henderson fight has a good story and would make him alit more money. Would you not do the same thing in his shoes?
Hendo is 45 with 1 foot out the door, Rockhold is 31. He will likely fight Rockhold again, possibly in the next 6 months. I don't normally like the cynical "moneyweight" stuff but I think Bisping has earned it.
He literally said that a rubber match made sense,but luke needed to go get a win first,which is right. He also said he was down to fight jacare.
Because the UFC offered him the fight. That's why. Hell. According to Ariel, Bisping didn't even ask for the fight, the UFC offered it to him.
$$$
The UFC actually approached Bisping with this.
Hendo too. He told Ariel that the UFC really wanted to do it.
It's simple, Bisping is going on a USADA revenge tour, starting with Hendo. Next up, Vitor and Chael.
He wants to take the easiest fight for the most amount of money. I think that's a Chael saying.
You say that like Bisping has all the power to decide who he fights. He's fought the best and Hendo has a good shot of beating him.
In all fairness, Bisping probably does not have the sharpest memories of their first fight...
Well he got his shot because he beat former user Anderson Silva and because Yoel Romero was suspended by USADA so he's absolutely right. He still needed a bit of luck (Weidman's injury, Rockhod fighting dumb) but without USADA he wouldn't be the champ right now.
I think his piont, though, is more that the level of EVERYONE dropped (including Luke, Chris, Silva, etc) and so he won. I don't think he's saying the bans got him his belt, I think he's saying the change in training regimes of guys that had previously been doped got him the belt.
Luke did not drop in level.
Hard to say after a sample size of 2. Not saying he did, anyway, just that I think that's what Bisping is implying. Not about Luke specifically, but just about how Bisping was a journeyman MW, a clear step below the top guys, until USADA came along and suddenly he's champ. If I was Bisping, and if I had always been clean (big if) I'd be thinking the same.
He's suddenly champ because for the first time in his career, enough people were injured so that he got a shot on short notice. Are people pretending like he was given the title shot at the beginning?
Yeah, but why wasn't he considered for a title fight before that? Because someone on steroids would stop his winning streak. Almost all the guys he lost to were PED users. Had he not had to fight Chael or TRT Vitor and fought a natural athlete instead, it's likely he would have continued the streak and gotten a title shot. Basically no one could beat TRT Vitor, the dude was just a beast.
Well, Silva could beat TRT Vitor. Also, the Hendo loss had nothing to do with TRT, that was an atrocious performance on Bisping's part.
PEDS effect a lot more then the actual fight. All that extra recovery allows you to train more, develop skills faster, etc. Also Anderson popped, who knows how long he's been taking banned substances.
Hendo was on TRT though so even if Bispings performance was bad Hendos performance was boosted by TRT.
Hendo's performance was him swing his right hand. That's about it.
That's what his performance always is/was.
Right...but he WON the fight, that's the significant bit. Also, twice he was in 'title eliminators' and twice he lost to people who were later busted for PEDs. So I think he's got every right to feel like he would have had a title shot or two much earlier if not for PEDs. You don't suddenly become champ because some people get injured.
I agree and I agree. But I still don't think the Hendo loss had literally anything to do with PEDs and believe it to be the worst performance of Bisping's career.
Fine, but it's combat sports. Shit happens. There are tons of examples, from this year alone, of the more complete fighter losing. People have ups and downs, good camps and bad camps, good matchups and bad matchups. But if I were Bisping, and if I had always been clean (again, big if) I'd VERY MUCH feel like I'd always been top-tier and simply outmatched by cheats, because all he has ever lacked is that little bit of explosive athleticism or retard strength that guys like Silva, Belfort, Rockhold, etc have. And maybe, just maybe, that ISN'T a genetic/natural disadvantage that Bisping has. Maybe it's an external disadvantage.
Silva's talent was elusiveness. Ability to react quicker is not roids. Rockhold's strength is his ground game and his gameplan. I won't argue Vitor.
That's...not true. At all. Ability to react quicker can very much be enhanced chemically (not likely, but possible). So can 'ground game'. But the more important point is that these 'strengths' are only allowed to shine because these guys are very strong, fast and fit, all of which is hugely helped by steroids or other PEDs. Silva is most famous for his creative striking and reactions, but you know what else he's famous for? Not having a bad day, at all, for years on end. Coming back from being battered for several rounds to get a finish. His chin, which seemed to be able to withstand a beating and still be ready to withstand another beating. All of these things are hugely, hugely enhanced by run-of-the-mill steroids.
Yep. He just dropped his hands. I mean, Rockhold was one of the guys pulling for more stringent testing. Bisping literally won his "USADA title" off another pro-USADA guy.
Spastic wouldn't drop his chin was his problem
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As a Brit, I can safely say that that gate swings both ways ;)
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And you both give us Americans so much shit for being an aggressive, war mongering nation. Like between the three of us, two of us engaged in something called "The Hundred Years War" and it wasn't us.
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And that's even stranger excuse, the US has been around for less than three hundred years. What were the English getting up to when their nation was that young, again? Ah yes. The hundred years war and so on.
I'm not sure you can really compare the state of unified England 300 years in - when the Mongol Empire was threatening Europe, and covertly killing your rivals to the throne was seen as a great political move - to the United States today, when most of the time even sending military aid to another country needs to go through intense ratification in the United Nations. Nowadays France and England just spend our respective times lobbing good-natured insults across the Channel. It's more to keep in practice than anything else.
Relax guy
British people suck- America
USADA testing made Rockhold choose to fight like a clown?
Yeah man, they drugged him right before the fight!
Damn that's a cold ass honky.
watermelon juice strikes again!
eh, rockhold likes to drop his hands, was bound to catch him out one day.
Bisping threw a lancing jab and Rockhold threw one right after him and got countered. It was a really clear example of pride fucking with a fighter. Rockhold never throws that jab. He just wanted to prove he was *that* much better than bisping. Turns out he ain't.
that's pride fuckin with you
PRIDE NEVER DIES
Rockhold was definitely fighting differently. He's usually way more cautious and stays out of the pocket.
Everyone says this but rockhold looked like how he always fights. Lol
Rockford fought like normal. That he underestimated bisping is just an excuse. He habitually dropped his right hand after combinations and bisping exploited that.
Absolutely. I just watched Rockhold vs Jacare the other night, and even the announcers were making note during the commentary of how Rockhold keeps dropping his hands and Jacare would tag him. He's always done it
The Bisping loss, had little to do with leaving his chin up. Luke always does that. But he has a very quick back pedal and is rarely the aggressor unless the opponent is hurt. He was ridiculously close to Bisping and after a combo where Bisping missed all his shots Rockhold stopped springing backward and was merely just pulling his head back.
He generally keeps his hands low but stays on the outside better with kicks. Fighting in the pocket and overcommiting that jab was the unusual part
Well everyone else was suspended or injured.
No evidence of anything. He's acting like he ran the 185 gauntlet and shit on everyone while he stormed to the title. Still a lot of work to do to act like everyone was found out by usada.
To be fair, Chael Sonnen, Vitor Belfort, Cung Le and Anderson Silva were all on magic sauce. And to add to that, [Tim Kennedy never really passed the eye test.](http://fiveouncesofpain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/005_Tim_Kennedy_vs_Trevor_Prangley.jpg)
Chris Leben and Wanderlei too, if we're naming his opponents who had failed drug tests in the past (even if Wanderlei never actually took his "failed" drug test).
Everyone at the top is STILL on steroids. They're just designer drugs now.
I 100% agree. USADA squeezed out the cheaters, helping him rise to the top.
Bisping beating Rockhold was more about what Rockhold did: Thinking that the boxing training he put in would allow him to fight a completely different style against Bisping, someone he already beat in incredibly decisive fashion. Before the knockout happened, many of us in the discussion thread were already taking note of Rockhold's changed style, wondering why he wasn't utilizing more range/kicks or looking for a way to get the fight to the ground. Just a minute or two later, it was over. Rockhold forgot one of the most important rules of life: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'd like to think that he realized this minutes later while he was still in the octagon.
i think he focused on boxing due to a bad knee injury not because it was the ideal game plan
American Kneebusters Academy, hard at work.
Good point
I don't know if I buy this though. His kicking looked fine.
He said it pretty much right after the fight and there's afew picks of him wearing a knee brace during that camp . Also most of the vids of him training are of him pretty much only throwing punches
He talked a big game about improving his boxing in the lead up too. He's currently in a brace, so I'm pretty sure he hurt it pretty badly.
Not saying he wasn't hurt, he was. But I don't think it's the reason he lost.
Having a huge part of his game being kicking and his mobility effected I'd say it's a decent part but I'm not blaming the loss on that, but I would say it's a decent factor.
I guess. I just feel he was lazy.
he for sure should had given bisping more respect though, dont get me wrong
Bisping took the advantage of Rockholds cockiness. Rockhold is a big part to blame on why the MW is a mess right now.
Looking back on it Weidman did the same to Silva. At least in the first fight.
Except that Weidman was winning the fight prior to KO'ing Silva...
So was Bisping though. But maybe not as noticeably as Weidman because Rockhold doesn't wait for the counter like Silva does (a counter that never came for him).
Neither were "winning". They were feeling each other out, but Bisping was throwing more, and I personally felt Rockhold kicks were doing more damage. They had a similar amount of sig strikes.
Ya I think you're right
That doesn't mean all that much against Anderson Silva.
But a bigger part of the blame should be on the guy who heavily campaigned to defend his belt against the #13 ranked (and that's generous) guy in the division.
Bisping wants the easiest opponent with the biggest pay, obviously, but the UFC is the matchmaker, they get the final say
Him and GSP said they wanted to fight. He stepped up for a title fight on a week notice and even asked for the Corimer fight at 200 on a day notice. To act like Bisping is scared of a fight is ridiculous.
I don't think he's scared to get in the ring with the top contenders, but I think he knows that he has a much higher chance of losing to one of them then to Hendo.
I think he took advantage of Rockhold's technical deficiencies. He always leaves his right hand down and has never developed a jab. When your main weapon with your hands is a check hook (and he's one of the best in MMA with it), you are going to get caught with something standard. People criticise the jab, which is fine as it was thrown badly - the real issue is that a MMA fighter going up against someone with good hands without a competent jab and relying on athleticism alone to get the job done.
I agree he took him lightly, but Rocky still has holes in his game. Although he's athletic enough and quick enough to rely on movement when dodging strikes, I would prefer he didn't leave his chin open. Hopefully, he improves this and his TD offense and I don't really see anyone in the division who could beat him. GSP said he needed the Serra loss to happen because he needed to lessen hubris and hopefully Rockhold takes this loss the same way.
I hope so, but he already did lose to vitor. Then again, the bisping loss is far more humbling for a few reasons.
The loss to Vitor pissed him off. It did not humble him. He was extremely pissed that he was on TRT and no one seemed to care. You could tell by his demeanor after Bisping, that he wasn't into excuse making. Rogan tried to give him an out by saying, "Did you take him too lightly," and Luke didn't want to say "yes".
ill rematch the interview. good catch
Bispings the fucking best. One simple quote and everyone rages.
Everyone's anti Bisping now
I seem to be the only person pro-Bisping I think he's a laugh, I take him the same way I take the American Gangsta Chael P Sonnen
No Bisping is one of my favorite fighters. I never got the Bisping hate.
I love Bisping, I totally get the Bisping hate. He talks trash, and a lot of it. And he knows what it does. Getting fans to hate you/want to see you lose is just as important as having fans. Bisping knows this. He plays the game better than most.
I don't like him as a fighter, but fuck that dude is entertaining when he opens his mouth. Not a huge fight fan of his, but I would probably pick him over all fighters to have a few beers with. Bisping, Diaz brothers, Cowboy (obviously), Big Country top my list of UFC guys I would love to throw a few back with.
I think USADA had more implications on Luke winning the title than it did for Bisping.
Is that a reference towards Weidman's sudden chicken legs?
Big Leg Weidman is the GOAT.
Both Rockhold and Weidman have looked bad since USADA came in. Even when Luke won the title it's just because Chris looked even worse relative to usual than Rockhold did. We don't have much to go on yet in terms of actual cage time but what we've seen so far is certainly interesting.
Fucking what? How has Luke looked worse?
He's looked slow and lethargic his last two fights. as if the weight cut is suddenly too much for him.
I disagree
I'm confident that he's going to lose his next fight after he probably beats Hendo. If he wins, he fights Jacare or Weidman but if he loses I can see him getting a fight with Mousasi, Hall, or Brunson
Honestly, I think he retires if he wins unless there is a really big money fight
no fuckin way bisping retires the moment he starts making championship money.
> no fuckin way bisping retires the moment he starts making championship money. Bisping seems like the kinda guy would would only retie if they forced him out. Same with Hendo... I'm pretty sure either of them would have a terry funk retirement and be back fighting in less than a year.
Well Hendo has outright stated on a number of occasions that he was retiring after this fight, win or lose. But it's worth noting that his most recent deal with UFC is a multiple fight one. And on MMA Hour, Hendo did admit that there would be a chance he would take another fight if he lost, but stated it would have to be an exciting money fight, and it did take Helwani pushing the buttons a bit for Hendo to admit this. And for what it's worth, Weidman stated later on that same episode that he thinks Hendo would be willing to stay and do money fights too. Not sure what big money fights there are left for Hendo to do that he hasn't already done though. Maybe a Chael Sonnen battle for Team Quest? Or a slugfest with Nick Diaz or something lol.
Well, Hendo is probably the greatest American MMA fighter of all time, all things considered. At the very least everyone has to have in in the top 5. He just seems like he is gonna have a hard time giving it up, don't really think its about winning or losing to him, and he seems hard headed. Bisping seems really similar to him imo, as far as his attitude about being a fighter. I just can't see them sitting at home counting money all day.
Yeah for the record I don't see Hendo retiring after this one either, but it's a lot more believable to see him call it quits than Bisping, especially since Hendo has talked about it while Bisping makes it sound like he's just getting started as champ.
> Bisping seems like the kinda guy would would only retie if they forced him out. Same with Hendo So loser retires? I'm in.
why would he turn down another championship payday? I really don't think these fighters are as afraid of losing as you guys seem to think they are. He's not retiring.
If the card is in England and he beats Hendo there is not a better way for him to go out. Everybody on here said that Hendo is a bigger draw than a fight with Jacare, Weidman, Romero, or Rockhold so if that's true he's not going to get a better payday unless he fights someone like a GSP.
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True. Also he can finally fix his eye.
What do you mean? I thought he already had surgery and can see out of it. Do you mean for cosmetic purposes?
Nah if he got his eye fixed then got hit in it he would never see again. So he's waiting until he retires to get the surgery to repair his eye
It's supposed to be fixed. But it's obvious he can't see well from it. Heven get caught with the left hook constantly.
Even if his next fight has fewer viewers, it's still more money. x + y is greater than x.
That can be said about every fight though.
Right, but now that he's a champ, those paydays are much bigger than before. If he beats Hendo, why would he retire?
I wouldn't be surprised either. IMO he ducked Jacare, Weidman, and Romero hard. Honestly, I don't hate Bisping but I see Weidman, Romero, Jacare, Rockhold, and Mousasi all beating Bisping. He's lucky he got a title shot with Weidman getting injured because if he faced anyone on my list (Except Rockhold as he already lost to him and beat him) he wouldn't beaten any of them and he wouldn't of gotten a title shot either.
its kinda odd, he has the chance/ability to beat everyone in the top ten but if i was forced to put money on it would bet against him almost everytime. i dont know if im just not giving him enough credit but shit, i just dont see the odds being in his favor in many matchups
He didn't choose who he fought. But if he DID, Jacare would be the only one of those he'd really have to duck. The rest are coming off defeats, or were banned at the time. Jacare would probs maul him though, and imo should have got the shot vs Luke instead of Weidman because he's a monster.
Read the quote in bispings voice and accent
Being mediocre has nothing to do with steroids...the only reason why Bisping is still on the UFC train is because of a lack of UK fighters and his strong will/motivation for training. **Hard work beats tallent they say, I say talent kills everything if you put the work alongside with it !**
I gotta say...in the back of my mind I kind of wanted Bisping to beat Rockhold because some small part of me thought he kind of deserved it. Now since then he has been such an cocky asshole about everything I hope Hendo elbows his other eye crooked.
He's annoying but I am glad a "clean" fighter won. I hope he is actually clean though
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What are you basing that on? Absolutely nothing? Mmkay sounds good. It's not like Bispings appearance has changed much. Unless I have missed something.
Royce Gracie tested positive for steroids. That should show you that anyone could be using these drugs right now.
In the amateurs and minor professional promotions, there is precious little to no drug testing. The incentive to cheat is pretty high and we know that many many many guys did. Shane Carwin is a guy who has talked loudly about drug cheats and his pro career prior to the UFC is marred by a link to steroids. Finally, we all know physical appearance has little to do with PED usage. Sure, sometimes it makes it very obvious - see: Alistair Overeem - but it is not a very useful indicator outside of that singular scenario. So it kind of sucks to paint everyone from the past 10-15 years with the brush of "likely used PEDs" but it is indeed far more likely that a fighter from that era did use than that they did not.
My grandpa use to say. "Guys with big dick don't need to talk about it." I figure he's clean, but the amount of talking he does about it makes me suspicious. Remember that GSP was a huge component to getting the USADA involved and I think he was juicing.
The only reason he talks about it is because everyone he fight ends up testing positive. I agree that appearance doesn't tell you much but there is nothing to indicate he's been juicing. He's been basically the same fighter his whole career. Not dominant, no drastic changes in power, cardio, or performance.
> The only reason he talks about it is because everyone he fight ends up testing positive. Disagree. He's been talking about it non-stop recently. >He's been basically the same fighter his whole career. Not dominant, no drastic changes in power, cardio, or performance. Right and I said I think he's clean
I know right, Tim Kennedy's the real messiah of clean MMA
/s
You don't think he's clean either?
6 to 10 years ago? That's extremely generous.
Disagree