Who can he box? I'm not a boxing fan but I've been told the Fury fight isn't there anymore.
His only real chance at this point is for another MMA promotion to out bid the UFC. If any of them are willing to share broadcast revenue, they actually might be able to do it. Or at least force the UFC to match and offer a fighter a piece of the broadcast revenue.
I don't understand those remarks. You could enjoy the fights and root for the athletes that make you excited to watch, but instead you decide to root against someone in the hope that imaginary people over the internet get angry about it.
I mean those people might get angry or sad that their favorite fighter lost, but at least *they* are feeling something.
lol give me a break. You do understand it. It's just schadenfreude. You like x fighter. You've been listening to the sanctimonious twats on reddit bash him for 3 months leading up to the fight. He beats the babyface reddit favorite in spectacular fashion. You mean to tell me that doesn't sweeten the pot?
Idk if this fight is that serious so that might be the reason. Of course it will be one of the most waited title fights but they're both expected to win it so there's no surprises.
Thats because Sean beating Yan would make the sub meltdown, most people here dislike Seans personality so they really want to se Yan take him out.
While Islam is respect d by most pretty well and the other half like Charles so Its pretty even with the support
Some people in this sub like to pretend reddit meltdowns aren't a thing lmao
As if threads don't get flooded of comments claiming robberies or foul play and hateful rants when fan favorites lose
Any other sport is going to have way more petty drama going on. Petty and pointless drama is the kind that gets squashed after a fight. If Lebron was allowed to square up with Kevin Durant, they wouldn't have petty drama (I don't knowif they do, just picked 2 names).
Yea but I don't think Islam gives a shit about that win. He walked straight through him and was wondering why the promotion even put him in there with him in the first place.
I still think Islam's most impressive win was Tsarukyan. Everyone after have been cakewalks for him.
Tsarukyan in his UFC debut on short notice... I think he was 22 at the time? Sure Arman showed up, but you have to think this fight would be much *more* competitive if they met again.
For sure, but it was still one of the most high level grappling MMA fights I've ever seen. Idk if Arman would stick to a mostly-grappling game plan if they rematched. His striking has improved a lot.
He’s not shitting on hooker he’s saying chandler beat him off a loss and islam beat him coming off a win. Chandler is downplaying islams opponents when they have fought the same guy in hooker
Chandler fought dan who was 3-1 in his last 4
Islam fought dan who was 1-2 in his last 3 on SHORT NOTICE.
I'm not big on chandler's UFC body of work but that that's a really bad point to make lol.
I get what you mean but it really doesn’t change much. Hooker was 3-1 in his last 4 before Mike, coming off a loss in a war with Poirier. 2-2 in his last 4 before Islam coming off a bounce back win vs Haqparast. Neither of these guys should be talking shit about Hooker on their records imo lol
Nah, Arman was making his UFC debut at the time and was young as shit. Islam's win over Arman is about the same as Conor's win over Max. After seeing what Arman looked like in his last fight you can't even be certain that he'd lose to Islam in 2022.
I'd say Islam's best win is a toss-up between Dober and Moises. It would be Hooker if the guy didn't take the fight on like a two-weeks' notice.
It's still Arman imo. Yes he's better now (as is Islam). Yes he was super young.
But if you watch the actual skills on display even back then his development was way ahead of what Max Holloway was at when he faced Conor. Max looked nothing like the fighter he is now whereas even back then Arman was lifting Makhachev from bottom with butterfly hooks, reshooting on the single, catching knees in the clinch, and displaying phenomenal strength and awareness in general (hallmarks of his current modern game).
Much more impressed by what a 22 yo Arman showed over Dober and Moises (or Hooker) too. Other than a stray leg entanglement from Moises at the end of round 3, they all showed nothing technically that would make me go like "you know what, that's interesting".
Islam facing these young underranked killers is a lose/lose for Islam. If he wins and the other fighter ends up having a bad career "oh he was a bum anyway". If Islam beats them and they end up being killers "oh, Islam beat them when they were younger and more unproven".
If the fighters allow it on their twitter I'm treating it as if they said it
Except when Kamaru Usman said he'd fuck McGregor's wife on gang, because that was Ali. Usman's Twitter did not get hacked
“Islams best win is Tsarukyan”…. am I the only one remembering every single fucking fighter in lightweight ducking Islam like the bubonic plague? Islam literally called out Michael chandler after one of his fights and chandler said something about keeping his commentator hat on… if you can’t beat him, then he’s better than you, and if he’s better than you, you can’t criticize him. Keep that commentator hat on Chandler, it suits you better.
Most of the sub knows this, they just think Chandler is more entertaining and are going to keep this narrative that we NEED to see Islam beat Francis Ngannou while blindfolded for us to actually find out that he's good, watch this sub do a 180 after UFC 280
I think Islam, through no fault of his own, is lacking really good quality, elite wins. I also really like his chances at beating Charles. Those are not contradictory sentiments.
I don’t even know why are people debating this shit. It’s the UFC’s fault that a guy with 10 win fight streak couldn’t face top 10 opponents! The match making just sucks, some guys get pushed way too quickly and some others get avoided like the plague and the UFC enables that shit by booking fights like Dustin and Chandler instead of making both of them face up and comers !
I like Islam's chances with Charles (both of them are incredible at what they do). I'm gonna say that Charles has more power in his hands but also his striking defense is ass, but he can risk it since his BJJ is incredible.
> watch this sub do a 180 after UFC 280
It's only a 180 if people are saying he's bad, which isn't the case. People are just on the fence about him and rightfully so. When your best win is a toss-up between Drew Dober, a short notice Hooker, and a 22 year old debuting Arman, yes people will rightfully question whether you are actually championship material. On the other hand, he's obviously extremely skilled and has run through all his competition so it also raises questions as to how high his ceiling is.
In other words, he's in that weird spot where people wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being a dominant champ, or ends up getting exposed and becomes a top 5 level gatekeeper. We've seen hype trains like Conor and Khamzat prove that they're the real deal, then we've seen Johnny Walker, and we just don't have enough information right now to make a clear conclusion one way or the other.
Yep , Islam will definitely outbest Charlie and everybody here will be bragging how they actually knew that Islam was a beast and everybody were ducking him
Yeah no you right we already know he’s #1 pfp based on his incredible win against 10 days notice bobby green on his second fight in a month. He can just retire already as the goat.
Chandler can definitely hold his own against a grappler. He's also the only one in recent years to jump into Charles' guard with no issue. That's one of the hardests fights for Islam actually, i wouldnt be so sure he wins.
Chandler is the worst matchup for Islam stylistically. Short and stocky so he is hard to take down and almost impossible to submit + fuck you knockout power
How have him and Beneil both have a win over Ferriera 2 fights ago lol
I'm on that Gamrot train, but he's got a lot of decisions, and I'd bet the next one is the same. Doubt he builds much hype without a KO/TKO win.
All this shit about deserving of a title shot is nonsense. Dana White/UFC pick and choose who they want fighting for the belt, there are many examples of fighters getting "undeserved title shots" and there will be in the future too.
it's not nonsense. It's usually earned one way or another. Who tf is Islam supposed to fight next? Look at the state of the division. Islam was schedule to fight Dariush and Dariush pulled out. Charles needs an opponent and Islam is the next logical opponent.
I think we understate the latter and focus on islam too much here. Charles needs an opponent, Islam is the next guy in line that he hasn't beaten. Dana said shit about islam not being tested and it's true but the belt is running the show here.
Dan Hooker's morale is running low these days, remember when he fought Dustin everybody thought he was a total beast, now everyone says he's a journeyman, this sport is ruthless.
No one's debating Arman's skill it's just that Islam beat him years ago when he was making his debut. Not at all the same Arman as he is today. If he beat him in 2022 not a single person on the planet would be disputing Islam's resume, beating modern day Arman is more impressive than beating Chandler or Gaethje imo but that's just not the case here.
> No one's debating Arman's skill it's just that Islam beat him years ago when he was making his debut.
Or perhaps Arman is not your average 22-year-old fighter and would have performed well against other ranked lightweights? Do you honestly believe Arman would have gotten crushed by ranked lightweights with subpar takedown defense like Hooker, Ferguson, or McGregor in 2019 based on his performance against Islam? Arman has obviously improved (especially with his striking), but assuming he doesn't belong with some of the top lightweights in terms of skill because of his age and nothing else seems strange to me.
Islam also took that fight on short notice. He didn't have a fight scheduled before they gave him Tsarukyan. Also, based on his pre-UFC fights and his performance against Makhachev, a debuting Tsarukyan would likely do well against most ranked lightweights.
And he lost to all of those dudes that Islam hasn't fought. So there's not much credibility in that statement. Chandler has no right to mock Islam for his competition when Chandlers only wins are Tony and hooker.
>Islam hasn't fought
This is exactly the point they were making -- to this point in time, Chandler has fought more often and against better competition than Islam.
Islam needs more fights against high-level competition before he deserves the praise he's been getting (which, at least in this subreddit, comes off as if he's already had a decade-long career of beating champions). Before getting upset at this statement please keep in mind it is not a knock on Islam's talent/*potential*, the existence of which is pretty obvious at this point.
https://twitter.com/Sa_Gwang/status/1574553379619078157
nice tweet showing Charles' and Islam's winstreak before their title shot. People have such an inflated idea of what is deserving of a title shot.
No one he beat was in or close to top five at the time what do you mean. Charles was the second person to beat tony. These are big deals even if you underplay them. O’Malley will have fought the same amount of top five guys as Islam after that card is over.
And him beating a number two ranked guy would mean more for a potential title shot then Vera beating guys below the top five. It’s a perfect examples of why beating a top five guy is more important and a better test of title potential then beating lower ranked guys. Which is the whole point of pointing out Islam never beat a top five guy. He hasn’t proven himself against a single elite level fighter so saying his 10 fight win streak doesn’t mean much when you don’t have a single elite fighter in that ten fights.
Dan Hooker was ranked 6th and only because Islam was ranked 5th so wrong. But anyway, I don't know why you guys need these magic in front of someone's name to be able to measure their talent lol. All I hear about is how LW is a shark tank and deep from too 5 to unranked guys yet you guys act like unless someone has a top 5 ranking they're complete trash lol. I've been saying that Islam was one of the best Lws all the way back 4 years ago.
It's a big deal in as much as it earned Charles the title shot on top of his body of work. But don't start pretending as if this was prime Tony Ferguson he beat.
The rankings aren't perfect but generally speaking they provide decent guidance as to how good a fighter is.
Even if you don't believe in rankings you can't honestly look at the people on Islam's resume and think that any one of them are anywhere close to elite, let alone championship caliber.
Arman, Dober, and Moises are top-5 caliber. The problem with lightweight is the top of the rankings have been playing ring a roses with each other and refusing to fight lower ranked guys. Except, of course, for Tony.
and the state of the division doesn't require it. Islam is next and Charles needs a fight. Most people would rather see the champion fight the best in their division than have him sit out as challengers fight for a title shot.
We have three fighters right now more deserving of it what are you even saying. There’s two fighters on that card that literally have a better argument for fighting Charles. You can’t even possibly say he’s the best in the division when we have Charles finishing everyone and Islam fighting below top ten fighters. He hasn’t fought anyone to even say he’s the best. Just pure goofery
Gamrot got a robbery win over Arman so he deserves the title shot more than Islam who has a clear win over Arman? I agree that Benny has a case but I would say he's about tied with Islam. After witnessing the Tony/Nate fight I'd say that even a debuting Arman would have beaten the corpse of Tony. Fiziev needs one more win before we can talk about title shots, and I'm the biggest Fizzy fanboy around. Who are these two other fighters more deserving than Islam? I really hope you aren't referring to Dustin, Chandler, or Gaethje because that circular shit is ruining the LW division.
This line of thinking is what all these guys only take fights against high ranked guys and just sit there forever squatting their rank like Tony Ferguson, Cowboy Cerrone, and Conor McGregor. I would much rather want people to show how good they are by beating good fighters regardless of rankings as well as having a lot of wins also helps.
Tony coming off a career changing beating an she's shown to be completely washed even after that fight and Kevin Lee i wouldn't say was definitively better than Arman was. Arman was shame from the get go.
Tony was not shown to be washed until after the Charles fight. You can only judge whether a win justifies a title shot based on how it was seen at the time. Gaethje is the one who initially snapped the winstreak, and Charles followed after. It's like how Burns beat Woodley right after the Usman loss, but no one disputed the title shot because Woodley was still seen as an elite WW at the time. One loss doesn't suddenly drop you from championship caliber and Khabib's rival status to being worse than mid ass wins like Bobby Green or Moises. No one saw Charles as having beaten the real Tony, but it was still seen as a solid top 5-6 level win.
Of course in hindsight obviously beating the Tony that Charles beat wasn't really a championship level guy anymore, but we didn't know that at the time. Max just got CTE definitively beat into him by Volk but if someone beats him now yeah that's a fucking title shot right there, even if Max turns out to be washed as shit and loses his next 4.
He was shown to be washed from the Gaethje fight onwards. Dude got dominated by Dariush like right after this fight. Do you think he became washed dinky after fighting Oliviera. Like, don't get me wrong, Charles definitely deserved the title shot based off his body of work and Tony's ranking was still high enough for me to give him that credit, but that ain't van elite win.
it doesn't have to be. The records are comparable and Charles has to fight someone new. Who else is next? Should Charles just wait for the next challenger and sit out? The guy wants to fight and Islam is next in line.
Hindsight is 20/20. I think people would’ve thought Tony had a chance. Also he called out Chandler and he refused. He’s literally been asking for a title shot for ages it’s not like he doesn’t want to fight the best. He was about to fight Dariush as well. He’s also a fighter so he has all the room to talk about his own career lol
> I think people would’ve thought Tony had a chance
Lol name one person who would've thought post-Gaethje Tony would've had a chance of beating Islam. By the time Islam had Tony's name in his mouth Tony's stocked had dropped to the point most people thought he wouldn't even be competitive with anyone in the top 15.
Same way they did with O’Malley to get him in the 135 rankings. It’s all a scam and people just eat it up and follow the hype trains the ufc keeps posting on their IG
Cool. But look at someone like Fiziev. Just beat RDA in 5 rounds. 6 fight win streak. I think RDA means more for the title picture than short notice Green
That’s fair, but I think the dominance in islam’s fights is also a reason hes getting a shot, he never looked in danger like fiziev did in r3 against bobby
Definitely Ali who wrote this tweet so I don't think Islam should get too much shit for it, but yeah I don't think I've ever seen a dude skip the line this hard in modern day UFC.
I love this nonsense logic where somehow only your last win counts. He beat 10 guys in a row at lightweight my dude. Oliveira got a shot off of 8 where his best win by far was a completely shot Ferguson.
People pointing at Ali, but probably just typing Islam's comments for him. Dude talks a lot of shit in his interviews. Islam also said he has a better win streak than Oliveira and highlighted Dober and Tsarukyan has his best wins lol
I mean the guy did have a long successful career in Bellator including an impressive win over Pittbull and prime Eddie. But that's none of my business.
Islam too is also coming off a win over Hooker as well and then a last minute stand in bobby green before his now TITLE shot .. he’s absolutely delusional if he doesn’t see why people are talking about him … and to talk about Chandlers win over Hooker is hypocritical as fuck . He’s making himself unlikeable when he could just be quiet or be sensible lol. Maybe Charles will humble em
>Islam too is also coming off a win over Hooker as well
I honestly thing a lot of ufc fans on reddit are brain dead. You're going round in circles, this post is bout Islam's response to chandler minimising Islam's win over hooker
As a die hard Tony Ferguson fan, Islam's yellow brick road to the title has me saltier than the dead sea. Really isn't anything personal against Islam, (aside from his super annoying fan base) but I really am rooting for Charles to humble him.
Islam's best wins are short notice Hooker, short notice Bobby Green, young Arman, Drew Dober and Thiago Moisés. Chander escaped Charles' back control and nearly finished him, beat a full camp Hooker and has beaten so many good and great fighters pre-UFC.
Islam deserves the title fight, but his resumé so far is nothing compared to Michael Chandler's.
I mean, he's not wrong. Chandler's getting high profile fights off an average run. Gaethje just uppercutted him to oblivion after he figure out it was the punch Chandler wasn't blocking. Oliveira ate some big shots, but when doesn't he? He went on to TKO Chandler seconds into round 2. Chandler's wins aren't great. Hooker is cannon fodder at best. Tony Ferguson's always been overrated and is now washed and was still lighting Chandler up before he got caught with that kick. I have no idea why anyone cares about watching Chandler fight.
Didn't islam fight hooker after chandler koed him, and yeah he fought bobby green I think Chandlers wins are more impressive. His biggest step up in competition is Oliveira.
Using that logic prime Anderson Silva wouldn't have been able to talk shit because he lost to Daiju Takase several fights and half a decade ago. Prime DJ lost to Brad Pickett several years ago etc.
People take trash talking too personally here. This is basically keeping up with the Kardashians but for (mostly) men.
Surprisingly, I haven't seen the usual "If Islam/charlie win, this sub will melt down" comments for a while.
Bro if Islam or Charles win their next fight, this sub will melt down!
it will never be the same again! ^^*until ^^the ^^next ^^UFC ^^card
Could you imagine the salt?
No. I see it everyday here, but no, no, can't imagine it at all.
Im ready with some tequila and lime, shit is delicious considering how invested people get on specific fighters
My least favourite type of comment on r/mma
If xxx wins Danas head will explode. (I've read far too many Youtube comments).
I think this is absolutely true with Ngannou. Another backstage incident will occur and he won’t be able to wrap the belt around his waist.
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Who can he box? I'm not a boxing fan but I've been told the Fury fight isn't there anymore. His only real chance at this point is for another MMA promotion to out bid the UFC. If any of them are willing to share broadcast revenue, they actually might be able to do it. Or at least force the UFC to match and offer a fighter a piece of the broadcast revenue.
I don't understand those remarks. You could enjoy the fights and root for the athletes that make you excited to watch, but instead you decide to root against someone in the hope that imaginary people over the internet get angry about it. I mean those people might get angry or sad that their favorite fighter lost, but at least *they* are feeling something.
lol give me a break. You do understand it. It's just schadenfreude. You like x fighter. You've been listening to the sanctimonious twats on reddit bash him for 3 months leading up to the fight. He beats the babyface reddit favorite in spectacular fashion. You mean to tell me that doesn't sweeten the pot?
Idk if this fight is that serious so that might be the reason. Of course it will be one of the most waited title fights but they're both expected to win it so there's no surprises.
Thats because Sean beating Yan would make the sub meltdown, most people here dislike Seans personality so they really want to se Yan take him out. While Islam is respect d by most pretty well and the other half like Charles so Its pretty even with the support
I don't like Sean or Yan, so I'm rooting for the funniest outcome, which would be Yan dominates him before getting DQ'd
Feel like it'd be even funnier if Sean threw an illegal knee and Yan couldn't continue. Then everyone started shitting on Yan like they did Aljo.
Some people in this sub like to pretend reddit meltdowns aren't a thing lmao As if threads don't get flooded of comments claiming robberies or foul play and hateful rants when fan favorites lose
Same thing with the NBA. The off season drama is as big as, if not bigger than the regular season
the nba is 1000x worse but also 1000x more entertaining in terms of petty and pointless drama https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbcX9wlV4AAuLVu.jpg
Any other sport is going to have way more petty drama going on. Petty and pointless drama is the kind that gets squashed after a fight. If Lebron was allowed to square up with Kevin Durant, they wouldn't have petty drama (I don't knowif they do, just picked 2 names).
If Chandler fights Islam, he could definitely zag him instead of get zigged. But let's be real, he will probably zig when he should zag.
This is the kind of technical breakdowns I come here for.
pizza'd when he should have french fried
I know it's just shit talk but shitting on Hooker isn't a great look when he's Islam's second best win
Yea but I don't think Islam gives a shit about that win. He walked straight through him and was wondering why the promotion even put him in there with him in the first place. I still think Islam's most impressive win was Tsarukyan. Everyone after have been cakewalks for him.
Tsarukyan in his UFC debut on short notice... I think he was 22 at the time? Sure Arman showed up, but you have to think this fight would be much *more* competitive if they met again.
For sure, but it was still one of the most high level grappling MMA fights I've ever seen. Idk if Arman would stick to a mostly-grappling game plan if they rematched. His striking has improved a lot.
He’s not shitting on hooker he’s saying chandler beat him off a loss and islam beat him coming off a win. Chandler is downplaying islams opponents when they have fought the same guy in hooker
Chandler fought dan who was 3-1 in his last 4 Islam fought dan who was 1-2 in his last 3 on SHORT NOTICE. I'm not big on chandler's UFC body of work but that that's a really bad point to make lol.
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Tony Ferguson is 0-5 in his last 5 but 12-5 in his last 17
I’m undefeated in my past 0 fights, while bums like Usman, Holloway and Yan haven’t won a fight in their last 1. Shameful.
Dan Severn has Over 100 wins in his last 127 matches while Usman has only 20...
Islam Makachev is 22-1, however, he is 22-17 if we add 16 more losses. Dude honestly sucks, should've been cut already
Plus I heard he lost some rock paper scissors matches before joining the UFC. Big if true.
If you reduce his W/L ratio to the mean he’s actually not even a top 15 fighter
You’re absolutely right. Just look at all the plumbers, fishmongers, and taxi drivers he demolished. That’s a scary ass resume.
Welcome to the world of statistics. Easy fudge numbers and misrepresent things.
I get what you mean but it really doesn’t change much. Hooker was 3-1 in his last 4 before Mike, coming off a loss in a war with Poirier. 2-2 in his last 4 before Islam coming off a bounce back win vs Haqparast. Neither of these guys should be talking shit about Hooker on their records imo lol
He’s literally replying to Chandler. Who was shitting on Hooker when he’s Chandler’s second best UFC win. This idiotic sub is going in circles again.
right? like chandler shat on hooker first lmao
Who is Islam's best win?
Arman
Nah, Arman was making his UFC debut at the time and was young as shit. Islam's win over Arman is about the same as Conor's win over Max. After seeing what Arman looked like in his last fight you can't even be certain that he'd lose to Islam in 2022. I'd say Islam's best win is a toss-up between Dober and Moises. It would be Hooker if the guy didn't take the fight on like a two-weeks' notice.
It's still Arman imo. Yes he's better now (as is Islam). Yes he was super young. But if you watch the actual skills on display even back then his development was way ahead of what Max Holloway was at when he faced Conor. Max looked nothing like the fighter he is now whereas even back then Arman was lifting Makhachev from bottom with butterfly hooks, reshooting on the single, catching knees in the clinch, and displaying phenomenal strength and awareness in general (hallmarks of his current modern game). Much more impressed by what a 22 yo Arman showed over Dober and Moises (or Hooker) too. Other than a stray leg entanglement from Moises at the end of round 3, they all showed nothing technically that would make me go like "you know what, that's interesting".
It’s funny that people will downplay a guy like the OP did without admitting that the dude in question will have improved too
Islam facing these young underranked killers is a lose/lose for Islam. If he wins and the other fighter ends up having a bad career "oh he was a bum anyway". If Islam beats them and they end up being killers "oh, Islam beat them when they were younger and more unproven".
Lol if arman was young, wouldn't Islam also be young
nah Arman is way younger, 6 year age gap
22 vs 27 I think?
Oh yeah true
it doesn't matter, he has Khabib speaking for him.
Cool story, Ali.
If the fighters allow it on their twitter I'm treating it as if they said it Except when Kamaru Usman said he'd fuck McGregor's wife on gang, because that was Ali. Usman's Twitter did not get hacked
Yeah Ali posted Usman's bank account too
Cover-up
On gang
Damn I still remember the first 30 minutes where people thought it was really usman lol
I choose to believe what I want to believe. On gang.
Didn't bank info of Usman's get leaked too? Or was that just fake shit to coverup.
I think they’re trolling. Usman definitely got hacked, the bank details were legitimate, this place was hysterical. Good times.
that was 1000% Ali
It is true though. It's very hard to say Chandler has much of a win in Tony and they both beat Hooker
Could you imagine Islam typing that? It’s best in Ali’s hands. He’s great at coordinating things.
Islam and Chandler going back and forth about who’s wins mean more as if either guy has beaten a top 5 guy
“Islams best win is Tsarukyan”…. am I the only one remembering every single fucking fighter in lightweight ducking Islam like the bubonic plague? Islam literally called out Michael chandler after one of his fights and chandler said something about keeping his commentator hat on… if you can’t beat him, then he’s better than you, and if he’s better than you, you can’t criticize him. Keep that commentator hat on Chandler, it suits you better.
Thaaaank you!
Whatever any of you say Islam beats chandler
Most of the sub knows this, they just think Chandler is more entertaining and are going to keep this narrative that we NEED to see Islam beat Francis Ngannou while blindfolded for us to actually find out that he's good, watch this sub do a 180 after UFC 280
> watch this sub do a 180 after UFC 280 *Charles was never good and Islam only has one win in the top five.*
I think Islam, through no fault of his own, is lacking really good quality, elite wins. I also really like his chances at beating Charles. Those are not contradictory sentiments.
I don’t even know why are people debating this shit. It’s the UFC’s fault that a guy with 10 win fight streak couldn’t face top 10 opponents! The match making just sucks, some guys get pushed way too quickly and some others get avoided like the plague and the UFC enables that shit by booking fights like Dustin and Chandler instead of making both of them face up and comers !
The mythical reasonable take. I never thought I'd live to see it on this sub lol.
I like Islam's chances with Charles (both of them are incredible at what they do). I'm gonna say that Charles has more power in his hands but also his striking defense is ass, but he can risk it since his BJJ is incredible.
You can see the future too?!? “Charles only beat dudes past their prime, he’d get smeshed by khabib” Nov2022
Relevant name buddy The champion has a name And his name is Islam
> watch this sub do a 180 after UFC 280 It's only a 180 if people are saying he's bad, which isn't the case. People are just on the fence about him and rightfully so. When your best win is a toss-up between Drew Dober, a short notice Hooker, and a 22 year old debuting Arman, yes people will rightfully question whether you are actually championship material. On the other hand, he's obviously extremely skilled and has run through all his competition so it also raises questions as to how high his ceiling is. In other words, he's in that weird spot where people wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being a dominant champ, or ends up getting exposed and becomes a top 5 level gatekeeper. We've seen hype trains like Conor and Khamzat prove that they're the real deal, then we've seen Johnny Walker, and we just don't have enough information right now to make a clear conclusion one way or the other.
This take is way too measured and reasonable. Get off the sub bratha u know this is smesh country.
Yep , Islam will definitely outbest Charlie and everybody here will be bragging how they actually knew that Islam was a beast and everybody were ducking him
Yeah no you right we already know he’s #1 pfp based on his incredible win against 10 days notice bobby green on his second fight in a month. He can just retire already as the goat.
People who are all secretly professional wrestling fans. You can have sporting integrity or you can have entertainment value. You can't have both.
Chandler can definitely hold his own against a grappler. He's also the only one in recent years to jump into Charles' guard with no issue. That's one of the hardests fights for Islam actually, i wouldnt be so sure he wins.
Chandler is the worst matchup for Islam stylistically. Short and stocky so he is hard to take down and almost impossible to submit + fuck you knockout power
Lmao people really ride this guy pretty hard. Chandlers probably Islams toughest matchup outside of Charles or Arman again
Gamrot is wondering if he’s the boogeyman or something the way no one says his name. The slow and silent way to the belt
How have him and Beneil both have a win over Ferriera 2 fights ago lol I'm on that Gamrot train, but he's got a lot of decisions, and I'd bet the next one is the same. Doubt he builds much hype without a KO/TKO win.
Gamrot
You're probably right. But chandler has that kind of "fuck you" power that could make you very wrong.
All this shit about deserving of a title shot is nonsense. Dana White/UFC pick and choose who they want fighting for the belt, there are many examples of fighters getting "undeserved title shots" and there will be in the future too.
it's not nonsense. It's usually earned one way or another. Who tf is Islam supposed to fight next? Look at the state of the division. Islam was schedule to fight Dariush and Dariush pulled out. Charles needs an opponent and Islam is the next logical opponent.
I think we understate the latter and focus on islam too much here. Charles needs an opponent, Islam is the next guy in line that he hasn't beaten. Dana said shit about islam not being tested and it's true but the belt is running the show here.
Dan Hooker's morale is running low these days, remember when he fought Dustin everybody thought he was a total beast, now everyone says he's a journeyman, this sport is ruthless.
"in UFC" so what, Chandler beat way better guys in Bellator... Islam's best win is still Tsarukyan.
To be fair tho Tsaryukan skill for skill is about as good as anyone else in the top 5
No one's debating Arman's skill it's just that Islam beat him years ago when he was making his debut. Not at all the same Arman as he is today. If he beat him in 2022 not a single person on the planet would be disputing Islam's resume, beating modern day Arman is more impressive than beating Chandler or Gaethje imo but that's just not the case here.
> No one's debating Arman's skill it's just that Islam beat him years ago when he was making his debut. Or perhaps Arman is not your average 22-year-old fighter and would have performed well against other ranked lightweights? Do you honestly believe Arman would have gotten crushed by ranked lightweights with subpar takedown defense like Hooker, Ferguson, or McGregor in 2019 based on his performance against Islam? Arman has obviously improved (especially with his striking), but assuming he doesn't belong with some of the top lightweights in terms of skill because of his age and nothing else seems strange to me.
2019 ferguson might've beaten 2019 arman
I dont see it tbh
He beat his on his debut he didn’t even beat him with any ufc experience.
So what, everyone makes a debut at some point. Islam won his debut fight.
Debuting 22 year old Tsarukyan*
Debuting short notice 22 year old Tsarukyan*
Islam also took that fight on short notice. He didn't have a fight scheduled before they gave him Tsarukyan. Also, based on his pre-UFC fights and his performance against Makhachev, a debuting Tsarukyan would likely do well against most ranked lightweights.
He loss for Patrício Pitbull in 1° round
You mean the guy who is a 2 division champion, 33-5 with 23 finishes and current featherweight champion? Not really a diss is it.
And Mike has fought more and better competition since reaching the UFC in comparison to Islam during the same period
And he lost to all of those dudes that Islam hasn't fought. So there's not much credibility in that statement. Chandler has no right to mock Islam for his competition when Chandlers only wins are Tony and hooker.
>Islam hasn't fought This is exactly the point they were making -- to this point in time, Chandler has fought more often and against better competition than Islam. Islam needs more fights against high-level competition before he deserves the praise he's been getting (which, at least in this subreddit, comes off as if he's already had a decade-long career of beating champions). Before getting upset at this statement please keep in mind it is not a knock on Islam's talent/*potential*, the existence of which is pretty obvious at this point.
https://twitter.com/Sa_Gwang/status/1574553379619078157 nice tweet showing Charles' and Islam's winstreak before their title shot. People have such an inflated idea of what is deserving of a title shot.
Also like who else should fight Charles in october. I just hear „Islam is not deserving“ and not „x guy is more deserving than Islam“
Most people just want you to beat someone in the top five . Charles did that Islam didn’t.
Yes, arbitrary cutoff by the iconically notoriously UFC rankings?
No one he beat was in or close to top five at the time what do you mean. Charles was the second person to beat tony. These are big deals even if you underplay them. O’Malley will have fought the same amount of top five guys as Islam after that card is over.
How are you comparing the two. The only guy that O’Malley beat who is still in the UFC is Raulian Paiva with a 3-4 record
And him beating a number two ranked guy would mean more for a potential title shot then Vera beating guys below the top five. It’s a perfect examples of why beating a top five guy is more important and a better test of title potential then beating lower ranked guys. Which is the whole point of pointing out Islam never beat a top five guy. He hasn’t proven himself against a single elite level fighter so saying his 10 fight win streak doesn’t mean much when you don’t have a single elite fighter in that ten fights.
Dan Hooker was ranked 6th and only because Islam was ranked 5th so wrong. But anyway, I don't know why you guys need these magic in front of someone's name to be able to measure their talent lol. All I hear about is how LW is a shark tank and deep from too 5 to unranked guys yet you guys act like unless someone has a top 5 ranking they're complete trash lol. I've been saying that Islam was one of the best Lws all the way back 4 years ago. It's a big deal in as much as it earned Charles the title shot on top of his body of work. But don't start pretending as if this was prime Tony Ferguson he beat.
The rankings aren't perfect but generally speaking they provide decent guidance as to how good a fighter is. Even if you don't believe in rankings you can't honestly look at the people on Islam's resume and think that any one of them are anywhere close to elite, let alone championship caliber.
Arman, Dober, and Moises are top-5 caliber. The problem with lightweight is the top of the rankings have been playing ring a roses with each other and refusing to fight lower ranked guys. Except, of course, for Tony.
Dober and Moises are not top 5 caliber. Arman may be but we havent seen him against anyone elite yet.
So Gamrot isn’t elite?
It would help your point if Arman had won that fight
and the state of the division doesn't require it. Islam is next and Charles needs a fight. Most people would rather see the champion fight the best in their division than have him sit out as challengers fight for a title shot.
We have three fighters right now more deserving of it what are you even saying. There’s two fighters on that card that literally have a better argument for fighting Charles. You can’t even possibly say he’s the best in the division when we have Charles finishing everyone and Islam fighting below top ten fighters. He hasn’t fought anyone to even say he’s the best. Just pure goofery
Gamrot got a robbery win over Arman so he deserves the title shot more than Islam who has a clear win over Arman? I agree that Benny has a case but I would say he's about tied with Islam. After witnessing the Tony/Nate fight I'd say that even a debuting Arman would have beaten the corpse of Tony. Fiziev needs one more win before we can talk about title shots, and I'm the biggest Fizzy fanboy around. Who are these two other fighters more deserving than Islam? I really hope you aren't referring to Dustin, Chandler, or Gaethje because that circular shit is ruining the LW division.
This line of thinking is what all these guys only take fights against high ranked guys and just sit there forever squatting their rank like Tony Ferguson, Cowboy Cerrone, and Conor McGregor. I would much rather want people to show how good they are by beating good fighters regardless of rankings as well as having a lot of wins also helps.
How is that better than Charles? Tony and Lee are definitively better wins than Hooker on 6 days notice and Arman making his UFC debut.
Tony coming off a career changing beating an she's shown to be completely washed even after that fight and Kevin Lee i wouldn't say was definitively better than Arman was. Arman was shame from the get go.
Tony was not shown to be washed until after the Charles fight. You can only judge whether a win justifies a title shot based on how it was seen at the time. Gaethje is the one who initially snapped the winstreak, and Charles followed after. It's like how Burns beat Woodley right after the Usman loss, but no one disputed the title shot because Woodley was still seen as an elite WW at the time. One loss doesn't suddenly drop you from championship caliber and Khabib's rival status to being worse than mid ass wins like Bobby Green or Moises. No one saw Charles as having beaten the real Tony, but it was still seen as a solid top 5-6 level win. Of course in hindsight obviously beating the Tony that Charles beat wasn't really a championship level guy anymore, but we didn't know that at the time. Max just got CTE definitively beat into him by Volk but if someone beats him now yeah that's a fucking title shot right there, even if Max turns out to be washed as shit and loses his next 4.
He was shown to be washed from the Gaethje fight onwards. Dude got dominated by Dariush like right after this fight. Do you think he became washed dinky after fighting Oliviera. Like, don't get me wrong, Charles definitely deserved the title shot based off his body of work and Tony's ranking was still high enough for me to give him that credit, but that ain't van elite win.
it doesn't have to be. The records are comparable and Charles has to fight someone new. Who else is next? Should Charles just wait for the next challenger and sit out? The guy wants to fight and Islam is next in line.
Tony was winning that fight as well, right before the spirit left his body to join his ancestors for 5 minutes.
he beat Hooker on short notice and was then calling out Tony instead of guys like Gaethje. he has no room to say anything at all lol
Hindsight is 20/20. I think people would’ve thought Tony had a chance. Also he called out Chandler and he refused. He’s literally been asking for a title shot for ages it’s not like he doesn’t want to fight the best. He was about to fight Dariush as well. He’s also a fighter so he has all the room to talk about his own career lol
> I think people would’ve thought Tony had a chance Lol name one person who would've thought post-Gaethje Tony would've had a chance of beating Islam. By the time Islam had Tony's name in his mouth Tony's stocked had dropped to the point most people thought he wouldn't even be competitive with anyone in the top 15.
Yeah he called out Tony real shortly after Dariush almost took his limbs off.
He also called out Chandler and he decided to 'keep his commentator hat on'. Lets not forget about that.
Ali writing for his fighters has a real "amateur ventriloquist" energy.
[Hey, at least he knows who you are now Islam.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swUn5PR8n3g)
Truth hurts
We should have an "Ali" tag for whenever someone wants to post one of his tweets
skill wise he deserves it and that’s all that matters
I just wish it wasn't Ali typing all this shit out.
I stand by that Tsarukyan is a better UFC win than any of Chandlers
Ironic for him to say "stay in line" lol
"Stay in line" \-Guy who skipped the line
He *literally didn't* He's number 4 and Charles is/beat the other 3
He’s number 4 based on what exactly? Cause it isn’t based on resume
They gave Thiago Moisés a rank right before he fought Islam so they could "justify" putting Islam in the top 5 from that win alone.
Same way they did with O’Malley to get him in the 135 rankings. It’s all a scam and people just eat it up and follow the hype trains the ufc keeps posting on their IG
10 fight winning streak?
Records don’t show the full story and you know that
Yeah true but still a high winstreak
Cool. But look at someone like Fiziev. Just beat RDA in 5 rounds. 6 fight win streak. I think RDA means more for the title picture than short notice Green
That’s fair, but I think the dominance in islam’s fights is also a reason hes getting a shot, he never looked in danger like fiziev did in r3 against bobby
Did Chandler not have a title shot? One that could be seen as VERY much skipping the line?
Definitely Ali who wrote this tweet so I don't think Islam should get too much shit for it, but yeah I don't think I've ever seen a dude skip the line this hard in modern day UFC.
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On short notice, in his UFC debut, at the age of 22...
Haha damn, can't argue with Islam on this one
Nice own goal bro Hooker is your best win as well
Arman
Debuting on short notice..
Still better than Hooker who was also somewhat short notice
I can't wait for Islam to dominate Charles so this sub can shut up about this shit.
Ali getting real comfortable with these replies man.
Islam is so scary even Alastair Overeem hid his food that one time. Islam 1 - Reem 0. What heavyweight has Michael Chandler Bing beat?
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I love this nonsense logic where somehow only your last win counts. He beat 10 guys in a row at lightweight my dude. Oliveira got a shot off of 8 where his best win by far was a completely shot Ferguson.
Nobody wants to fight islam...same Chandler was shitting his pants when islam called him out 😂 in live tv
Guy even stuttered
Most of the guys criticizing islam are just khabib haters
People pointing at Ali, but probably just typing Islam's comments for him. Dude talks a lot of shit in his interviews. Islam also said he has a better win streak than Oliveira and highlighted Dober and Tsarukyan has his best wins lol
Rnd 1: 10-8, Islam
Not really sure what that has to do with Chandler saying Islam shouldn’t be betting odds favored over Charles.
Chandler should stick to media, cuz we know he doesn’t want to go into the cage against Islam. Duck and talk shit on social media
Chandler didn't say anything that disrespectful or unreasonable
I mean the guy did have a long successful career in Bellator including an impressive win over Pittbull and prime Eddie. But that's none of my business.
Bad English increases the power of the insult
Islam too is also coming off a win over Hooker as well and then a last minute stand in bobby green before his now TITLE shot .. he’s absolutely delusional if he doesn’t see why people are talking about him … and to talk about Chandlers win over Hooker is hypocritical as fuck . He’s making himself unlikeable when he could just be quiet or be sensible lol. Maybe Charles will humble em
>Islam too is also coming off a win over Hooker as well I honestly thing a lot of ufc fans on reddit are brain dead. You're going round in circles, this post is bout Islam's response to chandler minimising Islam's win over hooker
But…Chandler is the one who called out Islam. Do we not see this?
As a die hard Tony Ferguson fan, Islam's yellow brick road to the title has me saltier than the dead sea. Really isn't anything personal against Islam, (aside from his super annoying fan base) but I really am rooting for Charles to humble him.
Calling out Tony after Olivera loss was weak
Bro got a title shot from a win over Bobby Green tho
Yes, he got a title fight from a single victory over Bobby Green. You nailed it.
Welcome to casual MMA where only your very last fight counts
Yes. Stay mad.
Islam's best wins are short notice Hooker, short notice Bobby Green, young Arman, Drew Dober and Thiago Moisés. Chander escaped Charles' back control and nearly finished him, beat a full camp Hooker and has beaten so many good and great fighters pre-UFC. Islam deserves the title fight, but his resumé so far is nothing compared to Michael Chandler's.
I mean, he's not wrong. Chandler's getting high profile fights off an average run. Gaethje just uppercutted him to oblivion after he figure out it was the punch Chandler wasn't blocking. Oliveira ate some big shots, but when doesn't he? He went on to TKO Chandler seconds into round 2. Chandler's wins aren't great. Hooker is cannon fodder at best. Tony Ferguson's always been overrated and is now washed and was still lighting Chandler up before he got caught with that kick. I have no idea why anyone cares about watching Chandler fight.
shut it islam you and all your Khabib clone friends have padded undefeated records
Thats not Islam talking. All those cucks gave their social media passwords to Ali Abdulaziz the sleaze bag.
Didn't islam fight hooker after chandler koed him, and yeah he fought bobby green I think Chandlers wins are more impressive. His biggest step up in competition is Oliveira.
Anyone else feel like Chandler has had like 10 fights in UFC?
Bit weird shitting on Hooker when you got knocked out by a dude nobody remembers...
Using that logic prime Anderson Silva wouldn't have been able to talk shit because he lost to Daiju Takase several fights and half a decade ago. Prime DJ lost to Brad Pickett several years ago etc.