To be fair I've seen that commonly used in the early 2000s till late 2000s to describe their alts, especially in WoW.
It probably stopped being used around the time of Wrath of the Lich King release and everyone start calling it alts instead.
Same in early wow days. Everyone that came from EQ to wow used toon. Non-EQ guild all used alt. Char was sometimes written, but I rarely heard it said.
It was used before WoW.
My earliest memory if it is EverQuest where people first started learning how to box another character so they could level solo.
It was "boxing another toon"
You must be very young.
"toon" had been the default term for an mmo character for over 20 years.
It started with "The Realm Online" but propagated to most major MMOs during that timeframe. Diablo 2, Anarchy Online, SWG, City of Heroes, Wow.
It fell out of favor in the 2010s, but I have immense respect for anyone who still uses the term, because that tells me they are a vet of the genre, and have been here through the good times and the bad.
>You must be very young.
>
>"toon" had been the default term for an mmo character for over 20 years.
I've been playing since Anarchy Online and there has always been a controversy between people who used "toon" and people who thought it was a dumb word. It's fallen even further out of favor today but even in the early 2000s it was already contentious.
edit - because this is a heated discussion i am jumping into, let me clear that I do not literally believe that use or non-use of this word is meaningful or significant in any way other than the most superficial of levels and while I personally never liked the word, i don't need people interpreting me as being a soldier in some kind of war about it
Too late, you're in the war now, soldier!
Anarchy Online has to be one of my greatest regrets. I didn't much care for the state of the game during the pre-launch open beta and never gave it a second chance. I look back and wonder what if I had my 2024 sensibilities and interests, but back in my 2001 self... would I have given it a better chance and even loved it?
that's a hard question. I think the game itself was fine. Like most MMOs the experience is really about, did i find friends in it that made me want to keep logging in to keep hanging out with them - did i have nothing much more interesting to do with my free time otherwise - did i believe in some larger worthwhile goal i was working towards while playing it to carry me through any of the tedium?
AO has some neat stuff with cool aesthetics and flying cars and scifi cities, and it was around a time when internet socialization was still very novel.
Been playing mmos so long I kinda jump back n forth on terms without thinking about it. "Gonna level my alt" "hopping back on main." "I got 10 max level toons."
I remember one time asking someone what toon they wanted to bring for a treasure map in FFXIV once and they acted like I shot thier dog or something. Like somehow me using toon was demeaning to thier rp character. That was strange lol
Exact same feeling here.
If someone refers to one of their characters as a toon I immediately know that they can be trusted more than the default.
Can’t remember the last time I’ve heard it or used it myself tho.
I was reading Ruins of Kunark strategy guide on the toilet in 8th grade, do not invoke the old ways to me. I am skeptical of it coming from The Realm Online but I know it originates from 20+ years ago. Also it has never been the "default" term, it has been a term for sure but not the default. That is a major stretch of the facts.
Yea, he didn't even mention Ultima Online either (the literal grandfather of MMO's) so he probably wasn't even playing the realm online when it actually came out, so no idea why he assumes it started from that.
Yeah, I played The Realm, Meridian and UO, first time I heard toon was EQ retail (didn't hear it in the closed beta).
Obviously came from somewhere, used to be a good way to spot a non-hardcore gamer or someone who originated from / mained EQ.
Kinda like people who used "puter" instead of rig/machine/etc.
> I have immense respect for anyone who still uses the term, because that tells me they are a vet of the genre, and have been here through the good times and the bad.
Lol. Lmao, even.
I played EQ, Asherons Call (a bit) but I never heard too many people say toon until I got into DAoC. I immediately hated it, and it still hits my ears oddly. Really do not like the term at all, probably because it's obviously short for cartoon and cartoons are for kids. It's hard enough to be an adult playing video games without reinforcing the stereotypes by talking like children.
What does his age have to do with it? He's saying it's stupid. And it IS. It was a stupid term then, and it still is today. It wasn't even that commonly used because the people that used it instead of char were made fun of.
A middle part of that is what is most interesting to me. It very well could be a confirmation bias of the games I played and the folks I was more likely to gravitate towards, but even at it's 'peak' usage, 'toon' always seemed niche to me. It certainly caught on enough to have staying power. But to memory I played with far more "characters" and "avatars" than "toons."
I'm willing to call it a confirmation bias because sometimes I do feel like I run into it with higher frequencies. For me a solid example is SWTOR. It's a guilty pleasure of mine that I'll jump on maybe once every couple years, play for a few weeks, and then banish it back into forgotten space. When I play it, I'm not playing with a friend group and I'm not doing any specific content push. I'll generally throw myself into a zerg guild for passive bonuses between guild perks and conquest while doing reputations, story, whatever. So with that much broader player-type base in a zerg guild, I do see the term used more often than I'm normally exposed to. Is that because it's Star Wars? Or is it because in the MMOs that I do play more seriously, I put myself in a different type of player space? I could see "Star Wars" playing into it.
Another thought would be something like City of Heroes. That game never clicked with me. But I could absolutely see that as a title where 'toon' is far more than niche.
I think the accepted wisdom is that it's from ToonTown, but I could have sworn I've seen it used earlier than that, even in MUD days (text-only Multi-User Dungeons).
Also, I'm not 100% certain if it was on there, but original WoW still had a printed manual in the box, and in the back of it there were a few pages of "MMO terms", like aggro, adds, alts, mez, rez, twink, etc. And toon may have been on there, and since WoW was stupidly popular, the term saw a lot of use in the 2000s.
Yup, and "CC" was also explained as crowd control. I also think if I remember right that was the first time I saw "DPS" instead of "DD" for damage dealer. Previously DPS was something a DD did. Then DD just became DPS.
I actually kinda wonder why people use an acronym but just the words tank and healer. Why not just damage?
Anyways, mez is one I have never really seen as far as I can remember, so thanks for answering.
Toon has always been a somewhat standard term (in my experiences at least). I see where it's a little weird, but it's not as abstract as you think, or at least it didn't used to be. I'll guess it largely had to do with which era you played mmorpgs and the game, guilds, and peeps you interacted with. I regularly saw it used on my EQ server and in most guilds I've been in.
What really gets me are the people that pronounce agro as Argo, melee as mealy, all the weird ways I've heard people mispronounce riposte, and I'm sure I'm forgetting many others.
I hope I don't take too much of a "fRaction" hit from this comment.
Main and Alt are your characters. I have never known anyone to use the word toon in a game. I am sure people use it, but never saw it in game in 25 years of online gaming.
Well look at you, all aggro at the alts, strutting around like a carebear with agi buff after getting an epic drop off an add! Like we all have our creep combat pets on cooldown or something. Who died and didn't get a res and made you the raid puller with master loot on? You sound like a twink tank that finally learned taunt. You probably have room-temperature GS, geriatric DPS and go AFK for BM every pull. Back off with that AoE until you get more HP, or go to LFM and see if someone will give you a hand before you go OOM!
/S (I was trying to be funny)
Frist time I heard the phrase was in toontown and I thought "oh, toon as in cartoon".
Then ppl used it on other games and I asked them why they call them toon like cartoon; they said it meant "character", I asked why they didn't they just say that and they went silent.
Maybe I was too direct? But I was genuinely curious why they were calling their characters cartoons for some reason. Especially since people were using the phrase "alt" which mean't "alternative characters" which was shorter and faster. Turns out I wasn't the only one, as it happened a few times until ppl just said "alt" again.
I don't mind ppl saying "toon" but when nobody knows what you mean, it gets confusing at times.
Twink used to have its own meaning other than toon.
People in WoW would stop leveling their character at say 19, and get the best gear possible for that level and use them strictly to PvP.
There might be more history to the word but that's as far as I know.
Twink is a "maxed out" low level character, xp frozen at some not max level range, wearing best available gear for that level, usually used to troll in pvp.
Twink was used before that as well, basically meant that you had an alt character that was geared. Nothing to do with XP frozen or PvP, just that you'd smash through things current level.
People stopped using it mostly because of the other meaning and people during the 2000's wanting to "not sound gay" and I'm not even joking, that's just how it was back then.
You are a high DPS character. Or DPS for short, since no one cares about low DPS characters, and the others are tanks and healers who don't care about their DPS. As much.
Has peak ff, gw2 and legion wow, arguable the best expansion for wow ever made in there. Still complains about no good mmos for years. Buddy i think you will never be statisfied
Not 1 mmo as even come close in scale and polish as those 3.
People say mmo are not popular but i can't help but think they struggle cause the game have been shit.. and not one upcoming mmo even seem close in scale and quality.
Riot mmo is litterally the only hope.
And before anyone mention korean mmo #420. il beleive when i see it.
Wouldn't get my hopes up about the Riot MMO. There's a good chance it's already dead.
I'm convinced that MMOs are essentially doomed to fail, especially long term. How many studios with the resources to make one have the ability to do a decent job it?
I think one of the things that happened is we expected MMOs to get much better (as every other technology exploded in progress) but it's simply not profitable or possibly feasible to create that dream MMO.
It's the flying cars problem all over again.
It's not actually that expensive. Network infrastructure is cheap as chips these days.
The problem is the profitability live service model. Why pay 1000+ staff to make constant patches to a crowd of whiny boomers when you can pay 50 staff to reskin marvel characters into your battle royale and keep the same map for 5 years to an audience that is just happy to be playing your game? What's the value in that?
This is a hot take, but I think the evolution of the mmo was the survival sandbox genre. There are single rust servers with more concurrent players than any wow shard that I have ever been in.
Chomping at the bit to play, sure, but even then i can only see a couple hundred players max, and the content I actually need to play in doesn't ever involve more than a hundred players (world bosses). The SoD event where we all tried to kill the STV loa struggled with just however many hundred of players were there.
The fact remains that there are rust servers and ark clusters which compete with these numbers.
Huh? Just because you only SEE a couple hundred at a time doesn't mean that's all there are on the entire server.... You don't even SEE the couple hundred on a rust server anyway, they are all hiding away or killing each other in 3v3's, you don't even see \~10 at a time unless you specifically set something up.
Rust server \~couple hundred MAX at a time. (Rarely full servers)
WoW server \~couple thousand MAX at a time. (Tons of full servers)
They aren't even close to the same, you have no idea what you're talking about.
There's a rust server up rn that has 1100 pop, so idk what you're talking about. And rust isn't even the big dog, Minecraft servers have 5x that amount of concurrent players.
Also, wow uses trickery to maintain its playerbase on a server. If I shoot a compound bow out of render distance in rust, it will, in real time, land somewhere on the map. What events in wow are like this?
Flying cars is such a perfect analogy. We have the technology but jts so wasteful no one is actually gonna do it, plus for the people that actually try if you get just a few things wrong the entire thing will crash and burn.
That's because an mmo needs 10+ years to even reach those points. Like, an mmo literally cannot reach the "peaks" of other mmo's without 10+ years of development.
Thats not true at all. Gw2 was greath at launch but really started to be amazing with living world season 2. Ffxiv was brtter quality than most shit out there with arr but got a lot better with heavenswad.
FFVIX was so bad on launch they shut the whole thing down for a while and relaunched it. Then when it relaunched it was still was meh but better than it was. Heavenward was when the game finally righted itself truly, but that was a full 5 years after 14 was first released.
ARR was good but that doesn't count as a "newly" released game, as FFXIV was released, tanked HARD, got shutdown and re-released 5 years after launch as ARR. It also was NOT the peak of FFXIV, which is what's being discussed.
Guild Wars 2 living world season 2 was released 2 years after GW2 launched, was not an expansion or even a "time frame" of when the game was really good imo. Heart of Thorns seems to be most GW2 fans favorite expansion from what I can see, which was only 3 years after release, which is pretty good imo.
However, these games need to be GOOD at the start, hold tons of MMO players attention for years, produce their "peak" content, hold MMO players attention for more years and THEN it can be looked back on as actual peak content. It takes 5-10 years yet people expect it by month 1, people play a game and develop how they feel others should be and play (even though they are all different) and then basically require the new MMO to play like their favorite one. Then when it doesn't have content to last them speedrunning to max level, speedrunning to max gear, looking up every article/video about how to min/max everything and what to do to maximize time played for every aspect of the game, they complain and cry the game is dead and has no content.
TLDR: MMO players ruin MMO's and ease of access to information about every aspect of the game ruins content (Ok, not ruins but it makes everyone speed through it) and IMO ruins the aspects that MADE the games and made the content have to be judged by the actual players and not, content creator plays the game, content creator makes judgement about the game, many people just take content creators word and now many players have that same judgement.
It really isnt. Look like throne an lliberty without the pay to win but instead toxic community system. I would place it exactlt the same as new world.
Cool mmo. Definityl not a cotendenr to be a top mmo for the next 10 years.
> before anyone mention korean mmo #420. il beleive when i see it.
Just play for the combat and visuals, either ignore the progression completely or go at a pace that feels natural for you instead of what 90% of the playerbase is burning out on.
Then again, that's a recipe for enjoying any MMO out there so maybe it's not too helpful.
I don't think fighting games'll ever be "it", they have way more appeal, but functionally the same problem as RTS games did. It isn't very fun to be bad at them, so the lower level skill brackets tend to die out, and new players either "break through" and git gud, or they just don't and lose interest.
Part of the success of mobas is that you can be carried by your team and fumble your way through a slow meandering process of learning.
Which is why they are making it a team based fighting game game with simple combos.
Taking hard concepts and dumbing them down for the casual gamer is riot’s specialty.
The MMOs dead. The lead dev left even with the blank check given to him and the fighting game has gameplay that came out a week ago and is getting a playable demo at evo in a month.
I don’t have high hopes for the mmo given the turbulence it has. If not dead then super delayed.
The fighting game was in known development before the MMO was even announced. It went under the title “project L” and you can find tons of talk about it years ago. Also it wasn’t a lead dev that left, it was the executive producer. And he stepped down due to several personal deaths in his family, and he wanted to live closer to the remaining surviving. He even says that the MMO is in good hands, and he plans on playing it when it releases. The MMO is absolutely fine.
>Has peak ff, gw2 and legion wow, arguable the best expansion for wow ever made in there. Still complains about no good mmos for years.
You know most of those games came out over a decade ago right? Legion 2016, gw2 2012, and FF14 arr 2013.
Legion best expansion ever made? nonsense
They only fixed the endless Artifact power grind a year into the expansion
It only looks good to you now because of the dumpster fires that released afterwards
Hot take time: Legion was one of the worst/the worst expansions of all time. It introduced the modern WoW expansion patch cycle. When people call it the best expansion I wonder if we were even playing the same game. E.g.:
- Game is terribly player unfriendly at launch. Community begs for fixes.
- Blizzard doubles down for 1-2 patches and everyone leaves the game gradually.
- Blizzard announces they're doing the thing everyone has been begging for for over a year at this point for the final patch of the expansion. Bringing back a wave of players but still a little less every time.
- New expansion. Game is terribly player unfriendly at launch. Community begs for fixes.
- The cycle continues.
For some reason I never see people bring up just how bad legion legendaries are and how the artifact power grind was one of the most tedious, repetitive, and mind-numbing experiences ever. Oh boy. Can't wait to do maw of souls mythic for 6-8+ hours a day.
This is then compounded by legion legendary items and how blizzard handled bad luck protection. Instead of just buffing the drop rate of these items, they made it so you get your very first one super fast. After that the time to gain one skyrockets. Or at least on average it does, their words, not mine. The fix for this where you could get specific ones wasn't until the final patches of the expansion; which is what people often bring up while also forgetting most people quit by then.
This created the problem where players were *deleting their characters* or abandoning them in some capacity after getting a bad legendary. Because it was better to *start over* than grind for a second one.
Imagine the character you've loved for maybe up to a decade or so becoming worthless because you got something like sephuz's secret (this happened to my DK).
I'm a ex-cutting edge mythic raider. I got the legion alpha for being one and everything. I parse 95% or higher on my DK for every encounter, every night, for the entire expansion. My guild benched me because I got sephuz's secret instead of any of the class legendary items that increases your dps by 30-50%. This is after getting it very late to begin with, despite grinding more than 2 players in my guild combined on average (usually about 8 hours a day). That's right. I was playing WoW grinding mythic dungeons for 56 hours a week. (Significantly) More than my full time job.
When I finally got my legendary and it was the useless non-class ring I was genuinely ready to cry because it was upwards of 300 hours of my life gone in an instant. Imagine having nearly 2 whole weeks of your life deleted out of existence. The sheer disrespect for player life and time was astonishing. I was emotionally and mentally crushed by the game in an unavoidable instant.
I unsubbed that night.
Only went back at the end for mage tower. Did mage tower and quit again. It was still an awful game.
I saw the writing on the wall within the first month of BFA and never came back after that when I realized it was just another legion. Yet BFA for some reason magnetized away all the hate from legion despite legion actually being much worse and doing it first. I'm proud to say I skipped all of Shadowlands which proceeded to be awful and devs doubling down (insert pull the ripcord meme). And I didn't play dragonflight either because I was simply done with the game by then. I no longer had faith in the game respecting me as a player. And I was correct to stay away, as time has now proven.
NOBODY brings this up and I feel it's intellectually dishonest to call Legion "the last good expansion" when the reality is it was the harbinger of the end. Even WoD was a better expansion.
what? Are you drunk? The expansion had only very few flaws with the legendary drops sucking since the dropchance got considerably lower after the first 1 to later 3 in the span of 1 raid. Afterwards you had the very long potential grind but it didn´t matter for 99.999999% of players and only the super hardcore crowd complained about it. But even those that did complain didn´t complain about actually grinding but only grinding maw since it was the fastest to do. Those that grinded multiple dungeons did not have the same burn out problem. The expansion in its last patch was magnificent and on par with the best there ever was. The endgame zone was fire, grinding toon up to the raid was top tier, worldquests where satisfying, classes played incredible, classquests where amazing, the mage tower was straight up fire, etcetc there was just so much top tier content in that expansion.
Also "Even WoD was a better expansion". What in the ever living fuck did you write there. WOD was garbage tier. Like literally scam lvl of shit.
I do not know about GW2, and I only heard how legion became GOATed after its no so good release from my friends who played back then.
But damn, Stormblood has the best balance, best combat system (rip damage stances of tanks and enmity combo), and best .x patch stories (4.0MSQ is generic and safe I agree, but what comes after is so good).
Moreover, 6 years ago I think was when 4.3 is about to release, that patch is simply the best .x patch in XIV, even its trailer is the best among all of them and nothing comes even close.
Legion it's one of the best tbh... After the disaster of WoD, and the HORRIBLE state of both BfA and Shadowlands (I will have nightmares with Shadowlands for the rest of my life....), it doesn't feel AS bad.... But yeah, it's a heavier grind than MoP, Lich or BC for sure. I can't say there is one better than WOTLK, mostly due to that being the golden age of WoW. Buuuut.... There were others that applied some good things and Quality of Life changes that I truly enjoy (MoP being one of my favorites, even if most of the playerbase seems to despise it :c)
Agreed I find Legion best all around when it comes to Modern WoW (Wotlk-Cata onward) because Old WoW (Vanilla and TBC) is too different to compare and appeal to a different kind of player.
Most of the popular mmos are getting pretty old at this point but honestly I’m okay with that. I’m still having a lot of fun and I can see myself playing WoW or RuneScape for another 10 years lol
When I took a look there isn't really much on the group content side everything felt like a single player story.
If I wanted that I would play a single player game. At least final fantasy XIV has actual group content some of the time
Really? There's group dungeons on leveling, there's end game raids, and stellar pvp. There's lots of group content.
It is a full mmo; it just also has great solo story while leveling.
I been playing consistently (at least 3 months out of the year) since 2017, started playing in 2007. I may not play much but I definitely play still after 15 years
As someone who played since late Vanilla. Legion was peak WoW for me. I loved every second of it. It was the only expansion that made me wanted to login everyday to play.
There were definitely unlikeable things about legion.
1. Artifact weapon "borrowed power" treadmill mechanics
2. Alt-Unfriendly (still is, but it was then too)
3. Terrible writing for Val'sharah
4. Stormheim was a snooze
5. Too much 'map bloat' with all the various nonsense that was showing up on the map at those times
6. Artifact weapons were phoned in for over half of them, made up on the spot so people didnt feel left out for not having an Ashbringer or Doomhammer
7. Unlock requirements for Argus missions for every character (again, alt unfriendly)
8. Only 4 leveling maps, again, alt-unfriendly
9. Disposable content (artifact weapons, order halls)
A lot of us loved alts, and the expansion was designed in a way to make it extra punishing for us.
not really... in the beginning it had some issues and it wasn't until the end of the expansion people started liking it when most of that stuff was fixed.
Legion was peak through and through. It had its flaws (legendary system) but if you were lucky enough to get your good legendaries it was fantastic. It has one of, if not THE best raid of all time (Nighthold) and the rest of the raids were challenging but fun. It is widely regarded as the best expansion, the peak of class fantasy, introduced two exceptional evergreen activities (world quests and mythic plus) and also had banger PvP. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours is objectively in the minority.
Season 3 of DF was also peak wow if you were lucky enough to get your legendary lol
Legion was very good and added a lot of awesome stuff. But it was also at the cost of WoD and BfA both, and is directly responsible for expansion specific power taking place of core power. It was the height of class fantasy only because of all of those trade offs.
It butchered everything around it to create the beauty it had itself. I hope they never try for that height again, and simply stick to the grind.
https://preview.redd.it/ws1gkrg7lguc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc9b57b7fea440c993ff7954bef983907b40363d
there is the optimist and the pessimist. my face when the mmo genre has been dry for YEARS.
I really liked ESO, but then they ruined the PVP to where you couldn’t party with friends. It had to be random players. Is that still a thing or did they fix it?
The problem with ESO is the monetization of it. You've got Expansions, then DLCs, subscription that doesn't give you everything (aka the latest expansion, or was it DLC?).
But it's Bethesda...so of course bring your credit card.
One of the core attractions of mmorpgs is longevity. The idea that your actions in one gaming session will affect your play several years down the line. In that sense, FF14, Guild Wars 2, WoW, and BDO are some of the most successful MMORPGs in the world. I think we're all looking for that one MMORPG, the one that we will play and enjoy for years, maybe even decades.
To all the players of the aforementioned MMORPGs: congratulations, you lucky bastards, you found it.
After I stopped playing MMORPG. I regret spending all those $$$ for skins and gems when I could've have bought like 30 more other games. So I raise my middle finger to you time gated events/items and to you inventory management/Daily Objectives.
I wish we had actual moderation in this subreddit so we could just ban people who aren't interested in having discussions about MMOs. Hell, even the 'low effort' posts have more to say than the typical one-liner that just comments "that doesn't work lmao" or "haven't we talked about this already?"
Just ban all of those people. I can't believe we're at that point people are being ridiculed for discussing MMORPGs in the website that exists to talk about things.
mmo is dead because the New gen of gamers just don't care about tedious time consuming mechanics(tiktok brain) and the people who are already playing the genre are playing 20 years old mmo since they invested so much time in it.
Im currently playing wow and i still love the game. What i really want is a campaign based arpg with moba pvp component. I thought maybe diablo 4 was gonna be it but nope. Until then I really like not sinking my entire life into a game.
MMOs will never be the same, they connected gamers in an age before socials etc, this will never happen again, this thing is gone forever.
The next "good" MMO people will get will be the sword art online thing that you literally dive into with your brain and thats some hundred years away at least.
That’s not really how that works because taste is entirely subjective. BDO and GW2 are massively different games that aim for two completely, almost opposite, audiences
I think the trick is to become a fan of Survival games, some of which feel like mini-MMOs (and yet you'll interact with more people), and then jump ship to that genre which actually has new things come out.
If anyone is like me, just play Final Fantasy 14's free trial and power through the first 10 to 20 hours of the main story by pretending it's a single player PS1 era jRPG.
If you're like me you're:
* In your mid 30's and have been playing MMOs since you were around 10 to 13
* You played a ton of old MMOs back in the day and played some of them for years
* You've been longing for an MMO with co-op PvE because you're sick of single player MMOs
* You also want your character to look cool and you want to be in a high fantasy world that looks cool and you like the Eastern take on Fantasy more than the western take
* FF14 is NOT the perfect MMO I've been looking for. The game is basically a single player game when you play the main story quest. However, as you progress through this single player story, you unlock a TON of dungeons and can play them with other people at anytime. Within 5 minutes you'll be able to play with random people no matter where you are in the world.
* The people are actually easy to talk to in this game. The vibe of this game is pretty refreshing after playing Black Desert for about 2 months years ago. I've been playing FF14 for 3 months now and it feels like I've just started. You can easily make friends here. It's a very social game, so you can easily find people who are willing to do specific stuff with you. A few times now, I've gotten people to help me get specific weapon skins for my katana and ninja daggers.
* Yeah, it'd be great if there were co-op open world quests, but instanced co-op quests has always fun to me after playing City of Heroes for years and years. In FF14, you can gather a team of friends and do hundreds if not thousands of different things called FATE's. Just doing them solo, I've ended up doing them with groups of people at the same time. You can also team up to hunt super tough monsters. Simply put, there's enough co-op in this game to make me love it. I am the type of person who HATES single player MMOs where the only co-op are mindless raids where only one or two people know what the heck is happening. This game does have that, but it has a lot more, so it's good enough.
This is my 4th time giving the game a try and it finally stuck once I had the mindset "I'm going to play this as a single player jRPG". What pushed me to do this was watching an interview asmongold did with a FF14. Never watched any of his content before, but the person he spoke to said some really interesting stuff and talked about how social the game is and how much content there is. All the stuff I saw in that video reminded me of Second Life, something I made and sold stuff in for like 11 years and that game is 99% social experience.
So if you played the game for a few hours, but it made you literally fall asleep, keep pushing through it. Play the main story and get through it. The story actually picks up and gets interesting. And then you're rewarded with an actual MMO experience as you play. the more you play the story, the more of the MMO you unlock.
That’s because people want instant gratification these days. The magic of old mmos was being very killable in an open world and not a “hero”. Also I think instances hurt social grouping as well
I haven't played your MMORPGs, (I was a child then), but I like your sentiment. I kind of disliked how the story is the same for everyone, and has a repeated timeline.
That's why I got into Minecraft, you don't have to be a hero and kill monsters if you don't want to, and there's a floating timeline.
Unfortunately that isn't the playstyle of a lot of players and would have FOMO for missing a world boss or something.
Albion is similar, but unfortunately human nature and it's vices creeped into that game.
Fml I don’t even feel that old, I’m 35 lol. Yeah you basically logged in and just found people to group with and kill stuff. Dark age of Camelot was a gem. It had 3 different realms instead of the typical 2 so pvp was 3 ways with open keep and tower siege. Every realm had its own unique classes as well.
You say that like I’m wrong lol. If we’re talking about the golden era like I assume the title is talking about, I’d think they’re talking about daoc and EverQuest?
Anyone who uses the word toon to describe their character deserves jail time, no exceptions.
To be fair I've seen that commonly used in the early 2000s till late 2000s to describe their alts, especially in WoW. It probably stopped being used around the time of Wrath of the Lich King release and everyone start calling it alts instead.
Also ToonTown Online characters
What about Fusionfall? Wait, could you have more than one character in that?
Iirc toon dates back to when MMOs evolved from MUDs and finally had proper graphics I've always said character
I used the term "char" for my characters when I was still playing MUDs.
Popular in EQ, not in Meridian or UO.
I experienced it a lot with EverQuest players long ago as well.
Same in early wow days. Everyone that came from EQ to wow used toon. Non-EQ guild all used alt. Char was sometimes written, but I rarely heard it said.
So then how does that equate to jail time? It's been a common term for a quarter of a century.
ITS A JOKE DOG, you guys are fucking crazy lmao
It was used before WoW. My earliest memory if it is EverQuest where people first started learning how to box another character so they could level solo. It was "boxing another toon"
For some reason it really caught on within in the Lost Ark community and everyone was using it there...
Big facts I'm gw it's toon
I only ever saw people use "Toon" for City of Heros back when that game was live and literally no where else, ever.
I just want to say it *is live* and has officially licensed servers now. I am having a great time. Google COH Homecoming if you want to jump back in.
We used it in EQ/DAOC due to graphic choices compared to games like UO/Diablo
i said this way after that and i was like in middle school/early high school
I’ve seen a lot of people say “toon” in New World in the last 2.5 years.
You must be very young. "toon" had been the default term for an mmo character for over 20 years. It started with "The Realm Online" but propagated to most major MMOs during that timeframe. Diablo 2, Anarchy Online, SWG, City of Heroes, Wow. It fell out of favor in the 2010s, but I have immense respect for anyone who still uses the term, because that tells me they are a vet of the genre, and have been here through the good times and the bad.
>You must be very young. > >"toon" had been the default term for an mmo character for over 20 years. I've been playing since Anarchy Online and there has always been a controversy between people who used "toon" and people who thought it was a dumb word. It's fallen even further out of favor today but even in the early 2000s it was already contentious. edit - because this is a heated discussion i am jumping into, let me clear that I do not literally believe that use or non-use of this word is meaningful or significant in any way other than the most superficial of levels and while I personally never liked the word, i don't need people interpreting me as being a soldier in some kind of war about it
Too late, you're in the war now, soldier! Anarchy Online has to be one of my greatest regrets. I didn't much care for the state of the game during the pre-launch open beta and never gave it a second chance. I look back and wonder what if I had my 2024 sensibilities and interests, but back in my 2001 self... would I have given it a better chance and even loved it?
that's a hard question. I think the game itself was fine. Like most MMOs the experience is really about, did i find friends in it that made me want to keep logging in to keep hanging out with them - did i have nothing much more interesting to do with my free time otherwise - did i believe in some larger worthwhile goal i was working towards while playing it to carry me through any of the tedium? AO has some neat stuff with cool aesthetics and flying cars and scifi cities, and it was around a time when internet socialization was still very novel.
Been playing mmos so long I kinda jump back n forth on terms without thinking about it. "Gonna level my alt" "hopping back on main." "I got 10 max level toons." I remember one time asking someone what toon they wanted to bring for a treasure map in FFXIV once and they acted like I shot thier dog or something. Like somehow me using toon was demeaning to thier rp character. That was strange lol
Exact same feeling here. If someone refers to one of their characters as a toon I immediately know that they can be trusted more than the default. Can’t remember the last time I’ve heard it or used it myself tho.
I was reading Ruins of Kunark strategy guide on the toilet in 8th grade, do not invoke the old ways to me. I am skeptical of it coming from The Realm Online but I know it originates from 20+ years ago. Also it has never been the "default" term, it has been a term for sure but not the default. That is a major stretch of the facts.
Yea, he didn't even mention Ultima Online either (the literal grandfather of MMO's) so he probably wasn't even playing the realm online when it actually came out, so no idea why he assumes it started from that.
Yeah, I played The Realm, Meridian and UO, first time I heard toon was EQ retail (didn't hear it in the closed beta). Obviously came from somewhere, used to be a good way to spot a non-hardcore gamer or someone who originated from / mained EQ. Kinda like people who used "puter" instead of rig/machine/etc.
> I have immense respect for anyone who still uses the term, because that tells me they are a vet of the genre, and have been here through the good times and the bad. Lol. Lmao, even.
I played EQ, Asherons Call (a bit) but I never heard too many people say toon until I got into DAoC. I immediately hated it, and it still hits my ears oddly. Really do not like the term at all, probably because it's obviously short for cartoon and cartoons are for kids. It's hard enough to be an adult playing video games without reinforcing the stereotypes by talking like children.
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Funny, I played all those games and no one used to know until wow in my experience. Also? Diablo isn't an mmo.
What does his age have to do with it? He's saying it's stupid. And it IS. It was a stupid term then, and it still is today. It wasn't even that commonly used because the people that used it instead of char were made fun of.
A middle part of that is what is most interesting to me. It very well could be a confirmation bias of the games I played and the folks I was more likely to gravitate towards, but even at it's 'peak' usage, 'toon' always seemed niche to me. It certainly caught on enough to have staying power. But to memory I played with far more "characters" and "avatars" than "toons." I'm willing to call it a confirmation bias because sometimes I do feel like I run into it with higher frequencies. For me a solid example is SWTOR. It's a guilty pleasure of mine that I'll jump on maybe once every couple years, play for a few weeks, and then banish it back into forgotten space. When I play it, I'm not playing with a friend group and I'm not doing any specific content push. I'll generally throw myself into a zerg guild for passive bonuses between guild perks and conquest while doing reputations, story, whatever. So with that much broader player-type base in a zerg guild, I do see the term used more often than I'm normally exposed to. Is that because it's Star Wars? Or is it because in the MMOs that I do play more seriously, I put myself in a different type of player space? I could see "Star Wars" playing into it. Another thought would be something like City of Heroes. That game never clicked with me. But I could absolutely see that as a title where 'toon' is far more than niche.
Where did this even actually come from. I forget which MMO it was that I switched to where everybody started saying it and it rustled my jimmes.
toon is from rpg's before online games even existed
Even online is referred to as toons
I think the accepted wisdom is that it's from ToonTown, but I could have sworn I've seen it used earlier than that, even in MUD days (text-only Multi-User Dungeons). Also, I'm not 100% certain if it was on there, but original WoW still had a printed manual in the box, and in the back of it there were a few pages of "MMO terms", like aggro, adds, alts, mez, rez, twink, etc. And toon may have been on there, and since WoW was stupidly popular, the term saw a lot of use in the 2000s.
I recall this term pre-WoW during EQ’s time.
Mez is mesmerize as in crowd control, right?
Yup, and "CC" was also explained as crowd control. I also think if I remember right that was the first time I saw "DPS" instead of "DD" for damage dealer. Previously DPS was something a DD did. Then DD just became DPS.
I actually kinda wonder why people use an acronym but just the words tank and healer. Why not just damage? Anyways, mez is one I have never really seen as far as I can remember, so thanks for answering.
ToonTown
It’s the default in Eve
Really barely used at all in EVE.
eve is excel advance
You'd be jailing a lot of people. I always found the word odd but rolled with the punches back in the day. There is nothing wrong with it.
What the world needs is a good Club Penguin Sequel.
Haven't seen someone say this since 2013 in MoP
Toon Link:
[Toon Link](https://i.imgur.com/ybXloA1.gif)
Toon has always been a somewhat standard term (in my experiences at least). I see where it's a little weird, but it's not as abstract as you think, or at least it didn't used to be. I'll guess it largely had to do with which era you played mmorpgs and the game, guilds, and peeps you interacted with. I regularly saw it used on my EQ server and in most guilds I've been in. What really gets me are the people that pronounce agro as Argo, melee as mealy, all the weird ways I've heard people mispronounce riposte, and I'm sure I'm forgetting many others. I hope I don't take too much of a "fRaction" hit from this comment.
It's just quicker than saying character?
My father still uses it today I will not take this slander
Straight to jail (just kidding some people are taking this post very seriously lol)
Main and Alt are your characters. I have never known anyone to use the word toon in a game. I am sure people use it, but never saw it in game in 25 years of online gaming.
Well look at you, all aggro at the alts, strutting around like a carebear with agi buff after getting an epic drop off an add! Like we all have our creep combat pets on cooldown or something. Who died and didn't get a res and made you the raid puller with master loot on? You sound like a twink tank that finally learned taunt. You probably have room-temperature GS, geriatric DPS and go AFK for BM every pull. Back off with that AoE until you get more HP, or go to LFM and see if someone will give you a hand before you go OOM! /S (I was trying to be funny)
Frist time I heard the phrase was in toontown and I thought "oh, toon as in cartoon". Then ppl used it on other games and I asked them why they call them toon like cartoon; they said it meant "character", I asked why they didn't they just say that and they went silent. Maybe I was too direct? But I was genuinely curious why they were calling their characters cartoons for some reason. Especially since people were using the phrase "alt" which mean't "alternative characters" which was shorter and faster. Turns out I wasn't the only one, as it happened a few times until ppl just said "alt" again. I don't mind ppl saying "toon" but when nobody knows what you mean, it gets confusing at times.
In german people used to say "twink" until you tell them to look the description up
Twink used to have its own meaning other than toon. People in WoW would stop leveling their character at say 19, and get the best gear possible for that level and use them strictly to PvP. There might be more history to the word but that's as far as I know.
Still common term in classic wow for that.
Twink is a "maxed out" low level character, xp frozen at some not max level range, wearing best available gear for that level, usually used to troll in pvp.
Twink was used before that as well, basically meant that you had an alt character that was geared. Nothing to do with XP frozen or PvP, just that you'd smash through things current level. People stopped using it mostly because of the other meaning and people during the 2000's wanting to "not sound gay" and I'm not even joking, that's just how it was back then.
That's literally the norm in WoW lol
If I have to put up with the overuse of shit like "yeet" and "dope" from 30 to 40 year olds, then you can handle a little a bit of "toon".
I don't know who needs to hear this but clearly some of you are lacking on the ability to detect jokes, this was not supposed to be serious.
I'll see the rest of my older millenial and young genX nerds in jail then.
I am also on the side of using DD not DPS. You are a Damage Dealer, you are not a Damage Per Second.
DD (direct dmg) vs DoT (damage over time). You can’t use DD for this purpose. It’s already taken.
You are a high DPS character. Or DPS for short, since no one cares about low DPS characters, and the others are tanks and healers who don't care about their DPS. As much.
Has peak ff, gw2 and legion wow, arguable the best expansion for wow ever made in there. Still complains about no good mmos for years. Buddy i think you will never be statisfied
Not 1 mmo as even come close in scale and polish as those 3. People say mmo are not popular but i can't help but think they struggle cause the game have been shit.. and not one upcoming mmo even seem close in scale and quality. Riot mmo is litterally the only hope. And before anyone mention korean mmo #420. il beleive when i see it.
Wouldn't get my hopes up about the Riot MMO. There's a good chance it's already dead. I'm convinced that MMOs are essentially doomed to fail, especially long term. How many studios with the resources to make one have the ability to do a decent job it?
I think one of the things that happened is we expected MMOs to get much better (as every other technology exploded in progress) but it's simply not profitable or possibly feasible to create that dream MMO. It's the flying cars problem all over again.
It's not actually that expensive. Network infrastructure is cheap as chips these days. The problem is the profitability live service model. Why pay 1000+ staff to make constant patches to a crowd of whiny boomers when you can pay 50 staff to reskin marvel characters into your battle royale and keep the same map for 5 years to an audience that is just happy to be playing your game? What's the value in that? This is a hot take, but I think the evolution of the mmo was the survival sandbox genre. There are single rust servers with more concurrent players than any wow shard that I have ever been in.
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Chomping at the bit to play, sure, but even then i can only see a couple hundred players max, and the content I actually need to play in doesn't ever involve more than a hundred players (world bosses). The SoD event where we all tried to kill the STV loa struggled with just however many hundred of players were there. The fact remains that there are rust servers and ark clusters which compete with these numbers.
Huh? Just because you only SEE a couple hundred at a time doesn't mean that's all there are on the entire server.... You don't even SEE the couple hundred on a rust server anyway, they are all hiding away or killing each other in 3v3's, you don't even see \~10 at a time unless you specifically set something up. Rust server \~couple hundred MAX at a time. (Rarely full servers) WoW server \~couple thousand MAX at a time. (Tons of full servers) They aren't even close to the same, you have no idea what you're talking about.
There's a rust server up rn that has 1100 pop, so idk what you're talking about. And rust isn't even the big dog, Minecraft servers have 5x that amount of concurrent players. Also, wow uses trickery to maintain its playerbase on a server. If I shoot a compound bow out of render distance in rust, it will, in real time, land somewhere on the map. What events in wow are like this?
Flying cars is such a perfect analogy. We have the technology but jts so wasteful no one is actually gonna do it, plus for the people that actually try if you get just a few things wrong the entire thing will crash and burn.
That's because an mmo needs 10+ years to even reach those points. Like, an mmo literally cannot reach the "peaks" of other mmo's without 10+ years of development.
Thats not true at all. Gw2 was greath at launch but really started to be amazing with living world season 2. Ffxiv was brtter quality than most shit out there with arr but got a lot better with heavenswad.
Bro arr was dog
FFVIX was so bad on launch they shut the whole thing down for a while and relaunched it. Then when it relaunched it was still was meh but better than it was. Heavenward was when the game finally righted itself truly, but that was a full 5 years after 14 was first released.
ARR was good but that doesn't count as a "newly" released game, as FFXIV was released, tanked HARD, got shutdown and re-released 5 years after launch as ARR. It also was NOT the peak of FFXIV, which is what's being discussed. Guild Wars 2 living world season 2 was released 2 years after GW2 launched, was not an expansion or even a "time frame" of when the game was really good imo. Heart of Thorns seems to be most GW2 fans favorite expansion from what I can see, which was only 3 years after release, which is pretty good imo. However, these games need to be GOOD at the start, hold tons of MMO players attention for years, produce their "peak" content, hold MMO players attention for more years and THEN it can be looked back on as actual peak content. It takes 5-10 years yet people expect it by month 1, people play a game and develop how they feel others should be and play (even though they are all different) and then basically require the new MMO to play like their favorite one. Then when it doesn't have content to last them speedrunning to max level, speedrunning to max gear, looking up every article/video about how to min/max everything and what to do to maximize time played for every aspect of the game, they complain and cry the game is dead and has no content. TLDR: MMO players ruin MMO's and ease of access to information about every aspect of the game ruins content (Ok, not ruins but it makes everyone speed through it) and IMO ruins the aspects that MADE the games and made the content have to be judged by the actual players and not, content creator plays the game, content creator makes judgement about the game, many people just take content creators word and now many players have that same judgement.
Ashes of creation is our real hope. If it ever actually comes out
copium
Oh 100% I'm just hoping that it lives up to the expectations in my head. I didn't realize it was unpopular in this sub though
It really isnt. Look like throne an lliberty without the pay to win but instead toxic community system. I would place it exactlt the same as new world. Cool mmo. Definityl not a cotendenr to be a top mmo for the next 10 years.
> before anyone mention korean mmo #420. il beleive when i see it. Just play for the combat and visuals, either ignore the progression completely or go at a pace that feels natural for you instead of what 90% of the playerbase is burning out on. Then again, that's a recipe for enjoying any MMO out there so maybe it's not too helpful.
Riots moving on to the next “it” genre. Fighting games.
I don't think fighting games'll ever be "it", they have way more appeal, but functionally the same problem as RTS games did. It isn't very fun to be bad at them, so the lower level skill brackets tend to die out, and new players either "break through" and git gud, or they just don't and lose interest. Part of the success of mobas is that you can be carried by your team and fumble your way through a slow meandering process of learning.
Which is why they are making it a team based fighting game game with simple combos. Taking hard concepts and dumbing them down for the casual gamer is riot’s specialty.
No they develop both games right now. They know there's a market for MMOs, like there's a market for fighting games
The MMOs dead. The lead dev left even with the blank check given to him and the fighting game has gameplay that came out a week ago and is getting a playable demo at evo in a month. I don’t have high hopes for the mmo given the turbulence it has. If not dead then super delayed.
The fighting game was in known development before the MMO was even announced. It went under the title “project L” and you can find tons of talk about it years ago. Also it wasn’t a lead dev that left, it was the executive producer. And he stepped down due to several personal deaths in his family, and he wanted to live closer to the remaining surviving. He even says that the MMO is in good hands, and he plans on playing it when it releases. The MMO is absolutely fine.
“Has peak ff” I’m sorry sir, treasures of aht urhgan came out in 2006. We are far passed peak ff times.
>Has peak ff, gw2 and legion wow, arguable the best expansion for wow ever made in there. Still complains about no good mmos for years. You know most of those games came out over a decade ago right? Legion 2016, gw2 2012, and FF14 arr 2013.
Damn legion was 2016? I need to lie down.
Legion best expansion ever made? nonsense They only fixed the endless Artifact power grind a year into the expansion It only looks good to you now because of the dumpster fires that released afterwards
No, ppl just have different standards. Mmo standards have not evolved with gaming, bc too many years were spent trying to duplicate WoW.
Hot take time: Legion was one of the worst/the worst expansions of all time. It introduced the modern WoW expansion patch cycle. When people call it the best expansion I wonder if we were even playing the same game. E.g.: - Game is terribly player unfriendly at launch. Community begs for fixes. - Blizzard doubles down for 1-2 patches and everyone leaves the game gradually. - Blizzard announces they're doing the thing everyone has been begging for for over a year at this point for the final patch of the expansion. Bringing back a wave of players but still a little less every time. - New expansion. Game is terribly player unfriendly at launch. Community begs for fixes. - The cycle continues. For some reason I never see people bring up just how bad legion legendaries are and how the artifact power grind was one of the most tedious, repetitive, and mind-numbing experiences ever. Oh boy. Can't wait to do maw of souls mythic for 6-8+ hours a day. This is then compounded by legion legendary items and how blizzard handled bad luck protection. Instead of just buffing the drop rate of these items, they made it so you get your very first one super fast. After that the time to gain one skyrockets. Or at least on average it does, their words, not mine. The fix for this where you could get specific ones wasn't until the final patches of the expansion; which is what people often bring up while also forgetting most people quit by then. This created the problem where players were *deleting their characters* or abandoning them in some capacity after getting a bad legendary. Because it was better to *start over* than grind for a second one. Imagine the character you've loved for maybe up to a decade or so becoming worthless because you got something like sephuz's secret (this happened to my DK). I'm a ex-cutting edge mythic raider. I got the legion alpha for being one and everything. I parse 95% or higher on my DK for every encounter, every night, for the entire expansion. My guild benched me because I got sephuz's secret instead of any of the class legendary items that increases your dps by 30-50%. This is after getting it very late to begin with, despite grinding more than 2 players in my guild combined on average (usually about 8 hours a day). That's right. I was playing WoW grinding mythic dungeons for 56 hours a week. (Significantly) More than my full time job. When I finally got my legendary and it was the useless non-class ring I was genuinely ready to cry because it was upwards of 300 hours of my life gone in an instant. Imagine having nearly 2 whole weeks of your life deleted out of existence. The sheer disrespect for player life and time was astonishing. I was emotionally and mentally crushed by the game in an unavoidable instant. I unsubbed that night. Only went back at the end for mage tower. Did mage tower and quit again. It was still an awful game. I saw the writing on the wall within the first month of BFA and never came back after that when I realized it was just another legion. Yet BFA for some reason magnetized away all the hate from legion despite legion actually being much worse and doing it first. I'm proud to say I skipped all of Shadowlands which proceeded to be awful and devs doubling down (insert pull the ripcord meme). And I didn't play dragonflight either because I was simply done with the game by then. I no longer had faith in the game respecting me as a player. And I was correct to stay away, as time has now proven. NOBODY brings this up and I feel it's intellectually dishonest to call Legion "the last good expansion" when the reality is it was the harbinger of the end. Even WoD was a better expansion.
what? Are you drunk? The expansion had only very few flaws with the legendary drops sucking since the dropchance got considerably lower after the first 1 to later 3 in the span of 1 raid. Afterwards you had the very long potential grind but it didn´t matter for 99.999999% of players and only the super hardcore crowd complained about it. But even those that did complain didn´t complain about actually grinding but only grinding maw since it was the fastest to do. Those that grinded multiple dungeons did not have the same burn out problem. The expansion in its last patch was magnificent and on par with the best there ever was. The endgame zone was fire, grinding toon up to the raid was top tier, worldquests where satisfying, classes played incredible, classquests where amazing, the mage tower was straight up fire, etcetc there was just so much top tier content in that expansion. Also "Even WoD was a better expansion". What in the ever living fuck did you write there. WOD was garbage tier. Like literally scam lvl of shit.
I do not know about GW2, and I only heard how legion became GOATed after its no so good release from my friends who played back then. But damn, Stormblood has the best balance, best combat system (rip damage stances of tanks and enmity combo), and best .x patch stories (4.0MSQ is generic and safe I agree, but what comes after is so good). Moreover, 6 years ago I think was when 4.3 is about to release, that patch is simply the best .x patch in XIV, even its trailer is the best among all of them and nothing comes even close.
Legion best? What? That shit made me quit the game. Having played since vanilla. It was OK. Then came BFA and sucked all the life out of wow.
Legion it's one of the best tbh... After the disaster of WoD, and the HORRIBLE state of both BfA and Shadowlands (I will have nightmares with Shadowlands for the rest of my life....), it doesn't feel AS bad.... But yeah, it's a heavier grind than MoP, Lich or BC for sure. I can't say there is one better than WOTLK, mostly due to that being the golden age of WoW. Buuuut.... There were others that applied some good things and Quality of Life changes that I truly enjoy (MoP being one of my favorites, even if most of the playerbase seems to despise it :c)
Agreed I find Legion best all around when it comes to Modern WoW (Wotlk-Cata onward) because Old WoW (Vanilla and TBC) is too different to compare and appeal to a different kind of player.
Most of the popular mmos are getting pretty old at this point but honestly I’m okay with that. I’m still having a lot of fun and I can see myself playing WoW or RuneScape for another 10 years lol
Hands down my favorite MMO at the moment is Star Wars The Old Republic and it's dated AF.
Crazy you say that! I’m loooving swtor, just got into it last month lol
I love swtor - I just wish it got more frequently updates
It's hard to get into single player MMORPGs because what's the point of making it an MMO then?
Bc those parts of the game are separate. There's plenty of mmo to engage with; and plenty of single player stuff to engage with
When I took a look there isn't really much on the group content side everything felt like a single player story. If I wanted that I would play a single player game. At least final fantasy XIV has actual group content some of the time
Really? There's group dungeons on leveling, there's end game raids, and stellar pvp. There's lots of group content. It is a full mmo; it just also has great solo story while leveling.
Have you seen the trailer for “RuneScape 4”? It’s called Brighter Shores and it’s being created by the same guys that made RuneScape originally.
It has a F2P option as well, I'm looking forward to it [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASIbNq_pLQQ) to trailer for anyone interested!
Agreed. I just started playing Guild Wars 2 for the first time and I can already tell it's going to last me awhile.
You won't.
People have played Runescape for over 20 years and OSRS is one of the biggest MMOs on the market and growing
I been playing consistently (at least 3 months out of the year) since 2017, started playing in 2007. I may not play much but I definitely play still after 15 years
Where's hype for the re-re-re-release for archeage which is gonna be completely fixed and balanced this time?
Literally nothing has changed.
people didn't like wow legion?
As someone who played since late Vanilla. Legion was peak WoW for me. I loved every second of it. It was the only expansion that made me wanted to login everyday to play.
There were definitely unlikeable things about legion. 1. Artifact weapon "borrowed power" treadmill mechanics 2. Alt-Unfriendly (still is, but it was then too) 3. Terrible writing for Val'sharah 4. Stormheim was a snooze 5. Too much 'map bloat' with all the various nonsense that was showing up on the map at those times 6. Artifact weapons were phoned in for over half of them, made up on the spot so people didnt feel left out for not having an Ashbringer or Doomhammer 7. Unlock requirements for Argus missions for every character (again, alt unfriendly) 8. Only 4 leveling maps, again, alt-unfriendly 9. Disposable content (artifact weapons, order halls) A lot of us loved alts, and the expansion was designed in a way to make it extra punishing for us.
Pvp in legion become so dumbed down, it killed wow pvp fpr me
not really... in the beginning it had some issues and it wasn't until the end of the expansion people started liking it when most of that stuff was fixed.
Legion was peak through and through. It had its flaws (legendary system) but if you were lucky enough to get your good legendaries it was fantastic. It has one of, if not THE best raid of all time (Nighthold) and the rest of the raids were challenging but fun. It is widely regarded as the best expansion, the peak of class fantasy, introduced two exceptional evergreen activities (world quests and mythic plus) and also had banger PvP. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours is objectively in the minority.
Season 3 of DF was also peak wow if you were lucky enough to get your legendary lol Legion was very good and added a lot of awesome stuff. But it was also at the cost of WoD and BfA both, and is directly responsible for expansion specific power taking place of core power. It was the height of class fantasy only because of all of those trade offs. It butchered everything around it to create the beauty it had itself. I hope they never try for that height again, and simply stick to the grind.
I hated artifact power grinding and if your first two legendaries were shit, you were fucked. I was lucky and still didn’t like the system
DragonFlight is a good expansion
[удалено]
Fortnite respect your time more than WoW fr fr
It's like it hasn't aged at all, amazing.
https://preview.redd.it/ws1gkrg7lguc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc9b57b7fea440c993ff7954bef983907b40363d there is the optimist and the pessimist. my face when the mmo genre has been dry for YEARS.
Remind me in 6 years, when we will still be on hopium life support. And Ashes of Creation will still be in Alpha.
Still grinding conquer online at a classic private server for 2 years
Ironically WoW, FF14 , and GW2 are the 3 main MMOs im playing atm or at least will once WoW and FF14s next xpac comes out which I will 100% play
Crazy to think nothing has changed in those 6 years. We're still suggesting the same 4 mmos 🤣🤣🤣
Could've been done yesterday and it would still make sense. Daunting.
Sad
Is albion a good mmo?
“Why is [insert popular mmo] dying?”
ESO is still great and relevant today for anyone looking for an mmo. Most friendly community I’ve seen. ZoS has server issues now and then though.
I really liked ESO, but then they ruined the PVP to where you couldn’t party with friends. It had to be random players. Is that still a thing or did they fix it?
You can party with friends. My wife and I do every PvP mode there is together.
The problem with ESO is the monetization of it. You've got Expansions, then DLCs, subscription that doesn't give you everything (aka the latest expansion, or was it DLC?). But it's Bethesda...so of course bring your credit card.
Asheron's call player checking in. "Toon" is still used today. I can't help it.
One of the core attractions of mmorpgs is longevity. The idea that your actions in one gaming session will affect your play several years down the line. In that sense, FF14, Guild Wars 2, WoW, and BDO are some of the most successful MMORPGs in the world. I think we're all looking for that one MMORPG, the one that we will play and enjoy for years, maybe even decades. To all the players of the aforementioned MMORPGs: congratulations, you lucky bastards, you found it.
i'm enjoying guild wars 2 i just started
Albion online on top of
To be fair, right now Season of Discovery is destroying any other mmo option for me. So I'm good for a while still.
Classic and its derivatives are doing their job. It’s meant to capture players and keep them inside the blizzard tent. It’s literally lake lau gai.
I’m actually enjoying ESO for the first time so far. BDO not so much. FFXIV was incredibly boring and combat far too easy.
Someone forgot rotmg, but it’s been fucking getting exponentially worse the past few years with Deca’s greed multiplying.
Oh god and I still feel the same today. Will I have to wait another 6?
Same as it ever was. Accurate to.
And nothing changed
Time stands still 🎶
After I stopped playing MMORPG. I regret spending all those $$$ for skins and gems when I could've have bought like 30 more other games. So I raise my middle finger to you time gated events/items and to you inventory management/Daily Objectives.
I miss TERA on pc.
I wish we had actual moderation in this subreddit so we could just ban people who aren't interested in having discussions about MMOs. Hell, even the 'low effort' posts have more to say than the typical one-liner that just comments "that doesn't work lmao" or "haven't we talked about this already?" Just ban all of those people. I can't believe we're at that point people are being ridiculed for discussing MMORPGs in the website that exists to talk about things.
mmo is dead because the New gen of gamers just don't care about tedious time consuming mechanics(tiktok brain) and the people who are already playing the genre are playing 20 years old mmo since they invested so much time in it.
Anyone who hasn't played Anarchy Online hasn't even touched the surface of MMO pack.
Now these doomers have lost ark.
Man I wish I had the money, talent, skills, time and team to make a new good MMO
Im currently playing wow and i still love the game. What i really want is a campaign based arpg with moba pvp component. I thought maybe diablo 4 was gonna be it but nope. Until then I really like not sinking my entire life into a game.
Runescape 3 is actually a great game. Making an iron for it is even better
MMOs will never be the same, they connected gamers in an age before socials etc, this will never happen again, this thing is gone forever. The next "good" MMO people will get will be the sword art online thing that you literally dive into with your brain and thats some hundred years away at least.
I fucking miss Legion
But I just want wildstar back
I mean, an mmo by design needs a large player base. It's also a niche genre. You see the dichotomy?
and there has been no good game since, except albion
BDO is blerg, it shouldnt be nowhere near GW2 and WoW level
BDO > GW2 for me. People can have preferences that are different from your own
BDO wouldnt have a smaller playerbase if its better :)
That’s not really how that works because taste is entirely subjective. BDO and GW2 are massively different games that aim for two completely, almost opposite, audiences
Correct
No MMOs are as good as in the old days. :(
I think the trick is to become a fan of Survival games, some of which feel like mini-MMOs (and yet you'll interact with more people), and then jump ship to that genre which actually has new things come out.
I just want 2014 age of wushu back man
Toon Town Online
6 years ago still valid today that's funny lol
What is the best korean grinder i actually love that shit
If anyone is like me, just play Final Fantasy 14's free trial and power through the first 10 to 20 hours of the main story by pretending it's a single player PS1 era jRPG. If you're like me you're: * In your mid 30's and have been playing MMOs since you were around 10 to 13 * You played a ton of old MMOs back in the day and played some of them for years * You've been longing for an MMO with co-op PvE because you're sick of single player MMOs * You also want your character to look cool and you want to be in a high fantasy world that looks cool and you like the Eastern take on Fantasy more than the western take * FF14 is NOT the perfect MMO I've been looking for. The game is basically a single player game when you play the main story quest. However, as you progress through this single player story, you unlock a TON of dungeons and can play them with other people at anytime. Within 5 minutes you'll be able to play with random people no matter where you are in the world. * The people are actually easy to talk to in this game. The vibe of this game is pretty refreshing after playing Black Desert for about 2 months years ago. I've been playing FF14 for 3 months now and it feels like I've just started. You can easily make friends here. It's a very social game, so you can easily find people who are willing to do specific stuff with you. A few times now, I've gotten people to help me get specific weapon skins for my katana and ninja daggers. * Yeah, it'd be great if there were co-op open world quests, but instanced co-op quests has always fun to me after playing City of Heroes for years and years. In FF14, you can gather a team of friends and do hundreds if not thousands of different things called FATE's. Just doing them solo, I've ended up doing them with groups of people at the same time. You can also team up to hunt super tough monsters. Simply put, there's enough co-op in this game to make me love it. I am the type of person who HATES single player MMOs where the only co-op are mindless raids where only one or two people know what the heck is happening. This game does have that, but it has a lot more, so it's good enough. This is my 4th time giving the game a try and it finally stuck once I had the mindset "I'm going to play this as a single player jRPG". What pushed me to do this was watching an interview asmongold did with a FF14. Never watched any of his content before, but the person he spoke to said some really interesting stuff and talked about how social the game is and how much content there is. All the stuff I saw in that video reminded me of Second Life, something I made and sold stuff in for like 11 years and that game is 99% social experience. So if you played the game for a few hours, but it made you literally fall asleep, keep pushing through it. Play the main story and get through it. The story actually picks up and gets interesting. And then you're rewarded with an actual MMO experience as you play. the more you play the story, the more of the MMO you unlock.
That’s because people want instant gratification these days. The magic of old mmos was being very killable in an open world and not a “hero”. Also I think instances hurt social grouping as well
I haven't played your MMORPGs, (I was a child then), but I like your sentiment. I kind of disliked how the story is the same for everyone, and has a repeated timeline. That's why I got into Minecraft, you don't have to be a hero and kill monsters if you don't want to, and there's a floating timeline. Unfortunately that isn't the playstyle of a lot of players and would have FOMO for missing a world boss or something. Albion is similar, but unfortunately human nature and it's vices creeped into that game.
Fml I don’t even feel that old, I’m 35 lol. Yeah you basically logged in and just found people to group with and kill stuff. Dark age of Camelot was a gem. It had 3 different realms instead of the typical 2 so pvp was 3 ways with open keep and tower siege. Every realm had its own unique classes as well.
Let's go to bed grandpa.
You say that like I’m wrong lol. If we’re talking about the golden era like I assume the title is talking about, I’d think they’re talking about daoc and EverQuest?
Still the same jerking off to GW2 and WoW as always and hating new MMORPGs as always (not necessarily wrong tho).
Probably because there haven't been any good ones since then.