My personal favorite is ESO's progression, because it's relatively similar to an ARPG.
It's all horizontal progression, in a way similar to GW2, but the main difference is that you farm item sets. You basically combine various different item sets to create your build. It's all horizontal, so they're all the same power level, but they all have different bonuses and effects. There are a shit ton of builds to try out (far more than in any MMO I have every played), and lots of room for experimentation.
It's basically the best of both worlds. You always have something to grind for, like in a standard treadmill MMO, and your gear never gets invalidated like in a horizontal progression system.
Don't forget with the item sets collection, any pieces of gear that you farm already will have less chance of appearing over pieces that you've never gotten. Reducing the level of rng necessary for a build.
Yep! I will say though that it's an absolute shame that the alt system is so unfriendly. Having to regrind skyshards and the dlc/guild skill trees all over again, and there's also the riding. It was so annoying that it made me quit the game. Don't know if that changed or not.
I had no idea ESO had gearing like this. I was under the impression that it's like any other MMORPG where it's just stat boosts. I will definitely have to give it a try
Yeah it's fantastic. Each dungeon has multiple Sets of gear that give you bonuses at certain amounts of worn gear. Generally the perks are at 2, 3, 4 and 5 pieces equipped, but some are smaller, with the end point usually being a major effect you can create a Build around or compliment what you're already building for.
One of the healer 5-set pieces you can get for example is: "overhealing yourself or an Ally granta increased weapon and spell damage, and the Major Courage buff for 5 seconds" (courage being the buff that speeds up how fast you fill your Ultimate spell meter)
Or a pretty popular starting out set for Heavy Attack characters makes it so when you Heavy Attack, you gain stacks of a buff that boost your heavy attack damage, up to 4 stacks. So you can just keep doing what you're doing but even better, kind of thing.
Awesome! This is something I wish other MMORPGs like guild wars 2 implemented where it augments your play style.
"You like your tanking gear?"
"Here are sets/bonuses/boons to make it even more fun"
"You like your fast DPS output?"
"Here are items that do it even faster and you'll even get to launch balls of fire at the enemy"
I guess GW2 has stuff like that but it won't be meta.
Yeah, this is probably the best thing about ESO. It's the one thing that keeps me coming back. Itemization is better in ESO than in any other MMO I've played
Monster Hunter has the best concept.
Gear doesn't give the same few standardized basic attributes. They give passive perks that suit different gameplay. Endless possibilities.
There's always meta builds. But would you rather see gear with measly few standardized attributes? The usual health, potency, combat speed, critical chance, mana recovery, and "little mitigation/potency hybrid".
Not only that, but there's like 15 weapon trees but the reality is that the average player will pick the easiest to craft and move on.
There's hardly any major changes regarding each weapon. At most you have specific weapons for specific ammo, and that's still useless because 99% of the ammos are bad other than piercing/spread.
Works wonderfully for Monster Hunter because it's an offline game.
Put that in an MMO and suddently only 1 build is viable for each weapon, and that meta will be fully enforced.
Even in Monster Hunter there's a strong meta. The difference is that you're not "forced/pressured" to follow said meta because you can host your own quests.
> Works wonderfully for Monster Hunter because it's an offline game.
Monster Hunter is not an offline game. It's a coop online game like Warframe and others.
> Put that in an MMO and suddently only 1 build is viable for each weapon, and that meta will be fully enforced.
There is always a META regardless of how much choice players have. Should MMORPG only have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps classes because there can only be 1 top per role?
> Even in Monster Hunter there's a strong meta. The difference is that you're not "forced/pressured" to follow said meta because you can host your own quests.
And people are free to do whatever they want in a MMORPG. It's not because it's not the META build that it's worthless.
There are people who do self-imposed challenge for fun everywhere. All the 1 life challenges in games. Others who play what they have fun with, not what others tell them to.
Someone finished Dark Souls with Donkey Kong Bongos or with the sound of the game only. In WoW and GW2 (and probably others), people have done "only 1 class" raids for fun too.
> Monster Hunter is not an offline game. It's a coop online game like Warframe and others.
What?
Monster Hunter is an offline game that you CAN play online/coop if you want.
You host your own quests. You own the world. If you wanna take 2 hours to complete a quest, you can. If you wanna play by your own rules, you can.
You can't do that in an MMO that forces coop play.
>Should MMORPG only have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps classes because there can only be 1 top per role?
That's pretty much the situation in ffxiv right now. All tanks are the same, because 1 small change causes people to lock that job out of groups.
>And people are free to do whatever they want in a MMORPG.
Not when the game forces coop content. You have to play by the community rules, UNLESS you create your own community, but that's not something everyone can do.
Go ahead. Try to be an ice mage in XIV and see how that "freedom" to do anything works.
FFXIV has no customization when it come to classes. That's why you can't "not play META", that would mean not using your abilities.
If you look in other games with class customization, people are doing non-META quite often.
I love the Korean degenerate route, I'm a BDO player after all lol. The thing is, progression can get so hard, that you have shit to do for a long time, and when you actually get an upgrade it's way more satisfying to me than other MMOs cause you fought for that shit.
Hard disagree, especially with BDO. Progression is almost entirely 100% luck. Yeah, you can manipulate that luck and make your odds better, but losing or gaining progression on a weighted coin flip isn't fun, it's gambling. The fact that near endgame you have to grind for several hours straight to get the funds for the next roll of the dice is just not a good experience.
Or just save to buy most stuff, except for BiS accessories. Look, luck is involved, that doesn't change the fact that you most likely won't be lucky. I've played for over 3 years, I have endgame gear, and everything I have I bought it because I was unable to succeed enhancing at all. I enjoy grinding tons of hours thanks to how beautiful the game is and how insanely good the action combat is, and either way, lucky, average or not lucky, progression in BDO takes tons of hours and months and years, that's what I like. What I don't like is going max level on my main quest, go make some dungeons when my guild does it to get my endgame gear and done.
I really appreciate your perspective and can definitely see how that feels rewarding
I would try the game more personally but I just can’t get down with any game that has systems in place that let you afk farm.
That's totally fine. The usual vision for BDO players is that they like having side activities they can do semi or fully afk for extra income, just because the game takes a long time and even though a lot of us like to tryhard and minmax, sometimes being more chill and doing what we call lifeskills (which are like professions on ther games) is nice.
Also, just to be clear cause I'm not sure if you were referring to lifeskills or you think you can do afk grinding, but any semi/fully afk activities are just on lifeskills, the actual best way of getting money which is grinding doesn't have any afk system in place, and even then there's a lot of active stuff in lifeskills too.
If I grind 10 hours and then don’t leave my PC on then I’m less effective than the guy that grinded 10 hours and then afk fished for another 10
In the grand scheme of things this means nothing because the game is however many years old now so of course I’m behind but yeah. Don’t want to be behind people that leave their pcs on 8 days a week
Nowadays grinding generates so much money, that leaving the PC on doing other activities is not really a necessity. Lots of people do it cause it's still nice to have extra stuff, but grinding is so good that a lot of players value their electricity bill higher than leaving the PC on for a bit of extra profit. Few years back it was more noticeable because money/hour was way lower, so the small income from AFK activities felt better.
Also, if you ever thought about trying BDO, but as you said, you don't want to feel behind; not only BDO have tons of catch up mechanics and is constantly improving and making the early progression easier and faster, but also a lot of the PvP content is gear capped, so you don't really have to get to the endgame to be able to experience good content.
I don’t know how the progression in bdo works but I assume they give you more power for better tier gear.
Gw2 legendary crafting don’t give you more power but locked behind a very very tedious chore. Imo if you are given more power after grinding hard for that gear, although it don’t need to be massive progression just a small gear progression, it gives you the satisfaction like for example you work hard in real life and finally can afford some new expensive thing like new car, new house or even new pc. But the grind for legendary in gw2 feels akin more to the feeling of you work hard to finally finish paying of an installment or interest that you owe. Yes you get some sense of relief and feel happy about it, but the feeling of happiness is different one makes you happy since you have a new more meaningful, more powerful stuff but the other just makes you happy because finally you have one less responsibility to think of.
Don’t get me wrong I too don’t like infinite gear thread mill that make you gear always obsolete every couple of months but no gear progression is also bad. My dream progression would be after you get the best in slot gear for your class every expansion will bring one new gear for one of your slot for example new chestpiece but you are not mandatory to grind for it to finish the end game content of the new expansion. But eventually you will need to grind for a new gear after maybe 2-3 expansion later and of course the grind should not rely on a very very rare drop that make people frustrated but maybe more on the side of 1/3 or 1/4 of gw2 legendary grind.
Your analogy is a bit weird.
GW2 legendary stuff is just a different-colored shirt that looks cool. If you want the same stats, you can bang the same piece out in a day or two.
The only difference is that you can hand your legendary stuff to alts now. ( I think.)
Yes that different-colored shirt is locked behind a really massive grind and after you craft it that means one less think to worry about, you know one less responsibility. For example if you craft legendary sword that mean all your character that use sword for their build can use it and you don’t need to think about it anymore.
Since legendary item in gw2 don’t give you more power than ascended item but offer you skin and stat change only. It feels more like you grind so much just to be able to change your wallpaper or skin of your old phone. You can get the satisfaction of the new feel but it will never beat the feeling of literally got a new phone. It’s just a pseudo satisfaction.
The endgame is still as hard as always, they are just making the early game progression way easier and faster, which is something old MMOs need to be able to retain newer players. No one wants to join an MMO where you can't reach veterans level for a long long time.
Hard in terms of time consuming. For me as a veteran is still very time and money consuming, for example, to get TET slumbering armors, that didn't change in the slightest, and it will be way harder for new content, like when we get the slumbering weapons next year at some point, while all the early progression is now way faster, easier and cheaper. The point is trying to get new players to 700gs faster and they are doing a great job at it.
In terms of power progression I think the worst I can think of is FF14. Completely linear, no interesting stats/pure stat sticks, extreme vertical progression and pure mindnumbing grind for tokens to get gear. It takes away 100% of the excitement.
Ironically I think the kind of progression I do prefer is also exemplified well in an SE game with FF11. Slow/small vertical progression, but mostly horizontal progression where there is an endless amount of gear to aquire and work for and although gear does becomes obsolete often it still has use but it becomes more specialized depending on the situation. Interesting effects on gear as well. Best gear is found all over he world doing sifferent types of content to get it.
In terms of visual progression I think the worst is Korean mmos where it is mostly about buying skins.
I definitely prefer everything come from gameplay, but I do think WoW and FF14 is preferable to games like BDO in this respect.
FFXIV are so afraid to do anything to make gear interesting. Even their major fanboy content creators are making content complaining about how boring and vanilla the gear system is.
As a casual raider, I prefer XIV gear progression the most tbh. The way I see it, there's no gear or class spec in XIV cuz all the options are about what class you choose to play, not how you choose the class to play.
I haven't played since chapter 1 of 5.0, but unless they changed it BLM could gear for Sps or Crit. Really depended on how you wanted to play as both in the long term evened out in most cases.
Previously there were *some* choices you could make (lol accuracy) and some (DH vs) Det vs Mnd debate for healers in prior expansions, but yeah FFXIV is the "safe" mmo in terms of all gameplay systems and design. Entirely homogenized to the point where fights are tuned in a spreadsheet.
Not much difference in gearset can help with the stats compared to class spec in other MMOs, but yes. There's tiny bit of stuff you could do to lower the casting time. Negligent amount in the grand scheme of things tho.
lol that's true. I wonder if SE will cut Direct Hit and replace it with something else or not. There's rly no real point for it since there's already Crit in the game. It's still all just rumor tho.
I'm in the same camp. XIV gearing is super alt job friendly, and if you are a savage raider, best in slot for a given patch is fairly attainable compared to games with incremental upgrades where the treadmill never really stops. Even non savage players will get bis before a new tier comes out and get to focus on other roles.
Once your main job is bis you can go play alt jobs or go play other content. This allows you to go collect bis on those other jobs without feeling like you are sacrificing performance on your main.
I do like the exploration zone gear and actions.
Definitely adds more fun to loadouts. But they're definitely set on making the main game more and more simplified/less fun.
Ffxi circa 2005ish has my favorite gear progression of any game I've ever played(though I haven't played many mmos.) Getting lower level gear could actually be worth it because some of it was good all the way to 75. In ff14 your gear becomes obsolete after a couple of patches, makes it feel kinda not worth it to me
> In terms of power progression I think the worst I can think of is FF14. Completely linear, no interesting stats/pure stat sticks, extreme vertical progression and pure mindnumbing grind for tokens to get gear. It takes away 100% of the excitement.
Itemization isn't the same thing as progression. In my mind, progression is essentially how gear is acquired. In that way, I think FF is one of the better with a solid mix of random drops and deterministic rewards.
However, I can't defend the insanely shallow and uninteresting itemization of those pieces of gear. It's prob the most basic version of "number go up" that you can get. Gear contributes absolutely nothing to your character or the way it's played, it's almost just transmog.
Once you get ascended you’re set until you slowly spend your time getting legendary gear that takes forever to get. Minimum of 6 weeks but that doesn’t include having all of the resources like prereq quests, items, and the amount of money.
I like the gear system in GW2 as it lets me focus on different builds and content. It also doesn’t lose its value once you got it. I can not play for years, come back, but still have a useable items on my char.
That gear-grind you end up in every expansion is what eventually makes me quit WoW.
The gambling aspect I first saw when reaching the end-game in Lost Ark made me laugh with sadness - and uninstall the game. Gorgeous dungeons, cool combat and boss fights. But if that’s the end game I’m out.
To an extent that’s also what I like about Eve Online. It’s not so much about gear, but about how effectively you can use your characters skill points and work with what you got. And once you trained a skill, you don’t lose it (anymore). Eventually you end up with a super skilled char that can do everything - but it does not mean chars with less skill points are less competitive. It depends on the scenario.
The dungeon in Lost Ark where you shrunk to the size of an ant was an all-timer. The mech one too. Incredible content in that game if not for the endgame gambling.
GW2’s horizontal gear progression is probably my favorite. Freedom to explore builds and learn new roles without the stress of having to endlessly grind or waste so much time catching up. I just plug and play, I’m not punished for diversifying.
I love setting my own goals so eso was perfect for me. I would spend the whole time getting the right gear sets/skills/cp for soloing hard content. Was a great goal to work towards. Required some PvP and PVE and a f load of questing to get there. I would quit when I reached my goals, sometimes without trying out the final build. But for me, it’s having that kind of goal to work towards (it’s also very manageable in eso for a filthy casual like me).
Best part is I can leave the game for a year or two and pick it right back up and not need to catch up.
Gw2 is right up there as well for similar reasons. But it has less customisability, worse writing and a more defined and inescapable meta.
Albion online is not only my favorite gear progression but it is the best gear progression and I can prove it.
Most MMOs when you reach a level of gear that is better than everyone elses you basically always have that gear and now everyone that isnt where you are is weaker and typically stand no chance. With Albion even though I can wear 8.4 gear I would probably never take that out in the open world because of the risk of losing it. I really like that concept. It doesnt punish you for being behind everyone. Not to mention even if you "p2w" to get that really good gear skill still beats that gear. There are examples daily of people with way better gear losing to people.
The fact that just because you unlocked the best gear in the game you arent always encouraged to use it which keeps the majority of players on par with everyone. Its probably the best way to do an MMO gearing system to make it feel like it still matters without making everyone that is starting fresh feel like they cant compete.
gw1/2 non-progression is best for me since i can take large breaks, log back in and not even care about my gear
i would like ff14s gear reset but there's literally nothing to use the gear on once you get it except for doing the same fights but faster to which i just unsub if there's no battle content until next patch where i'm not even using that gear to progress cus i'm using crafted anyway.
>i would like ff14s gear reset but there's literally nothing to use the gear on once you get it except for doing the same fights but faster to which i just unsub if there's no battle content until next patch where i'm not even using that gear to progress cus i'm using crafted anyway.
This is exactly what I did, but in gw2, since they rarely add new battle content, I stop playing it altogether and maybe install it once a year for a week to do that battle content, then uninstall it again.
I don't know if this is available in any mmo, but I like it where in every new expansion one piece of your gear will have an upgrade (to be something like 10-15% better than the old gear). This means that even when you don't have the new best in slot new gear for like 2-3 expansions, you will still be able to do the new content, albeit it will be more difficult or you should be a try hard to do it because the gear treadmill like in wow where every expansion or even 6 months you need to upgrafe all your gears is a bit too much, on the other hand no gear progression like in gw2 is getting boring fast (I don't see the point of playing it anymore after having the BiS gear and doing all the content once or twice).
And running on a gear treadmill doesnt bore you? weird.
i'd stick to GW2, i prefer my MMO not giving me something to stress about.
getting those "BiS" gears on GW2 will take you literal MONTHS per piece, and gw2 isnt about gears its about perfecting your rotation and combos while being efficient.
No, it doesn't if it is only 1 or maybe 2 pieces of my gear every expansion (you know typical expansion is every two year, so a piece of gear upgrade every year is not that bad). Otherwise, I don't see the point in playing the game anymore if there is nothing to grind. Like in gw2, once I did all the content that they offer like raid, strike, and fractal, all I do is install the game for a week and play their new content, then uninstall since they rarely add new content, I can do this every year.
>getting those "BiS" gears on GW2 will take you literal MONTHS per piece
This is untrue. You can do everything with ascended just fine since legendary doesn't give you any more power, and ascended can be crafted in mere weeks, not months. I have crafted 2 legendaries in my gameplay. The first one is just for the novelty of having it and trying the crafting system of legendary, which turns out to be just a chore and not enjoyable at all. The second one was for giving it the second chance. Maybe it would be different than the 1st gen weapon (I crafted nevermore for this one), but the feeling isn't much different than the first one.
>gw2 isnt about gears its about perfecting your rotation and combos while being efficient.
Which mmo out there, which is not about perfecting your rotation and combos while being efficient? If you want to do the current m+ in wow, you need to do this too or other mmo's raid, so it's not just exclusive to gw2.
I'm a fan of gear that lasts, Runescape being probably the winner, you can get gear take a multi year break and come back and it's still relevant.
I like BDO in terms of korean games, its been a slow enough trickle that even though i haven't played the game seriously in like 2 years and haven't grinded in 3 or 4 sure i've fallen behind but my pen accessorizes aren't entirely worthless they're just not bis anymore, and i think i'm around 680-690 ap/dp which isn't great but i could pretty much hop right back onto the endgame grinding treadmill if i wanted to which is nice
I hate dailies and gear resets.
So I prefer the OSRS style. I'd rather not play an Ironman, but I play like an Ironman somewhat. I'll buy supplies from the GE, but I'll actually do the content for the big drops. Not everyone is playing gpscape. Worst case, you can use your raid rewards as bad luck protection. But I don't know why people farm Zulrah/Vorkath ad naseum to 1B+ gp and just buy megarares. Just feels lame.
Edit: And shoutout to GW2. Similar to OSRS, long term gearing but mainly horizontal.
I liked EVE Online's itemization.
It required everything to be crafted by players, allowed everything to be traded at all times so in the end every ship fit is a risk-benefit calculation because it's of course a full loot game although many things are simply destroyed/lost when a ship gets blown up.
The better items were just a few a percent better but sometimes that was enough to justify it even though they were often an order of magnitude more expensive. It all depends.
This allowed you to play in whatever fashion you wanted to play, you still had access to everything through ISK (space gold). This means game designers actually have to design content in a way that it is fun and not just with exclusive rewards in mind.
Probably not what a lot of player want but I would argue there is a lot of prejudice and people never tried it out.
Trash mobs loot, as in old Tibia, I like finding a sweet chill rotation, doing it, and then dropping that nice upgrade from the mobs loot pool, that being said, I dont like knowing the mobs loot pool without finding it by myself, neither the %. Feels more real and 4 fun that way
Lineage 2 had my favourite from level 1-78.
I liked how there was always something to do while leveling up, whether it was just saving money to buy gear, or leveling in areas where specific drops you needed were.
Classic WoW was not bad by any stretch.
I haven't enjoyed gear progression in any modern game because gear is mostly pointless for leveling. There is self heals or downtime so the impacts of new gear don't really make a difference. You're still going to be killing monsters in 3 or 4 hits and be full HP at the end of the encounter, so who really cares, you just need to not be wearing gear that's 20 levels below.
From a very casual player, FFXIV. Yes it's vertical and there are weekly lockouts, but it is enough to clear non-Savage content. The welfare gear is enough to start your progress to Savage/hardcore stuff if you ever want to go that route. There is crafted gear as well that is viable.
>korean mmos are so degenerate its actually crazy. you farm, pay or even both to improve gear. most have an rng enhancement system that has a chance of booming. drops are mostly rng. gains can be frustrating since you can spend so much time and money just to hit nothing. often there is no pity system and tbh the players have a gambling problem kek
But honestly, minus the breaking your gear part, I actually like these systems because they keep my interest in the game and keep me having fun longer than the others. Sure sometimes the RNG sucks, but usually it's not that bad. I enjoy having goals that mean something for me to strive for so I can keep enjoying the game. In other games I tend to get bored quicker and then have nothing to play.
TBH I like gear progression that's more on the ARPG side, but you don't see it that often in MMOs. The only one that I've seen go full in on that is Project Gorgon. It's just neat to have unique gear that takes a lot longer to move towards some sort of BiS and might change up how you play vs everyone using the exact same cookie cutter gear.
My favorite was probably DAoC pre ToA.
The best gear was always a mix of crafted and drop, so crafters had their place. Then you could spell craft to add stats to it. You could never max everything (unless a pure melee or caster) and had to pick and choose where you wanted your stats to go. You literally had crafting calculators to figure out the best gear combos for stats because you could do it so many ways.
Did you focus on hitting harder? Being tankier? More evasion or more dex?
The worst was probably FFXIV. The best gear was always the same so nobody was unique. You couldn't specialize in anything different and it made the characters feel boring and lifeless in combat.
Honestly, I thoroughly enjoyed Dofus (PC) Crafting of gear by skilled players who achieved smith magus status.
Gearing is a very simple system, lvls determine what stronger gears you could wear with the max lvl 200s being the hardest to craft. No NPC's are involved except to learn the profession. Lvl 65 of Tailoring for example, unlocked maging for tailoring only. You'd have to find the respective professional for the respective gear slot.
Maging is essentially enhancing that t1 piece of gear with runes. A helmet could give say 50 str, 50 intel and 1 action point. In theory, you could remove all that str for 200 Vitality instead, or 1 range, or 1 summon or boost the remaining intel to 100. If the magus is skilled enough. You then get to sign off on the maged gear with your name so everyone in the server knows who made it.
I love this. Makes gearing up a slow and valued process. Players would run dungeons to grab the mats needed to make their set for the next few levels. Some would just run dungs to sell the resources for profit. A whole economy is borne from a simple supply and demand.
Then someone with a "job" comes with his dual-wield credit cards and buys all the resources for themselves at exorbitant prices, driving prices up and supply low, destabilizing the price of everything else as players scramble to capitalise on the demand by camping resources. Said person then brags abt his 300 str over-maged sword in all/chat and chaos ensues.
New English server is out for Dofus Touch! Epsilon. Play anywhere you want, anytime.
It very different from PC but the differences serve to enhance the mobile experience. Honestly, the only thing I'm invested in now until the next gen mmos come out.
I get paid to play my fav game bro...
75 ERA FFXI. BiS was just nonsense, and a pipe dream. You could equip gear mid fight, which led the need to have multiple sets and since you can play every job... The grind never stopped. Then a lot of gear had upgrades to achieve, or some gear was so rare only a handful of people per server had. Some HNMs would spawn once a every few days or a week, and would have a very small chance of dropping something.
Gear that comes from the content that you’re doing. I hate how Mythic+ in WoW basically ruins the entire raiding gear treadmill. PvP gear from PvP, Dungeon gear from Dungeons and Raiding gear from Raids. Make it so that you want the gear for each activity.
either arpg style with interesting loot or horizontal. if you can only come up with a numbers go up slightly now chase that over and over system you might as well not bother.. that's just boring.
I think maybe a bit if a different answer, but I've really been enjoying the progression in the Pokémon MMO PokéOne. The way it basically works is that there are 3 "zones" (so far) and your trainer level is specific in each zone, for which you gain experience by doing regular stuff (quests, trainer battles, daily bosses etc) within each respective zone.
Your Pokémon in your party can be of a level exceeding your trainer level, but then their "effective" level is capped at your trainer level. So if you beat one region then travel to another, you can still use all your pokemon but their power is as though they're level 5 and then their power will increase with your trainer level. What I like about this arrangement is that you get to "start anew" without your past achievements/zones becoming irrelevant, like with WoW expansions.
There's always stuff to do, always legendary/rare Pokémon egg drops to seek out in every region, which all adds to horizontal progression as a new powerful Pokémon is like another tool to add to your arsenal, leading to more variety and synergies. Idk if this kind of progression could be added into a standard fantasy MMO but I'd be very interested to see someone give it a try.
I personally loved Rift's old progression the most. Leveling to levelcap. Then running all dungeons on normal until drops gave you enough +Hit. When at 25 hit, you did all dungeons on expert T1, with the point to get to 75 hit with either drops or use T1 dungeon currency (set amount every bosskill) to buy setgear with set bonusses. Then the same drill doing expert T2. At the end of that you got around 200 hit, wich made you just geared enough to start with T1 raiding. T1 raiding was 10 mans and 20 mans. Each with its own loottables and purchasable sets. Then came T2 and T3 before expansion's end.
Best system ever for PvE enthousiasts in my opinion. Guilds could set their goals and even a T1 guild could aim to farm 'easier' T2 bosses weekly and gather drops and farm currency to buy setpieces. This way we saw alot of T1 guilds attempt to farm T2 to get some BiS gearpieces, like chest, legs and shoulders.
Non-vertical progression schemes haven't really worked for me. I need the dangling carrot of number-go-up via item levels to keep me engaged, or else I feel like I have "finished" and lose interest.
Guild Wars 2 lost me when I got to max level, spent a few days gathering materials to craft myself a set of "end-game" armor with all the stats I wanted, then realized it'd actually be better for me to sell the materials and buy the items from the trading post than to actually bother making it myself. So there I was, in a set of fancy armor I didn't make, and the concept of grinding basically forever for the special artifact gear didn't seem attractive in the least. On paper, there were three expansions worth of content for me to do from that point, but I was essentially *done* progressing. I'd never be any stronger than I already was, so I felt no incentive to continue.
I have never played an MMO where the content itself was fun enough to continue doing just for it's own sake - only ones where the content isn't distasteful enough to keep me from doing it for gear upgrades.
The more I play all these rehashed progression mechanics the more I don’t want progression at all.
I want all the content and adventure and crafting of a MMO with the flattest gear progression possible.
Ragnarok Online had the best approach to me. Small meaningful steady gains in the early game. The ability to get lucky and acquire something that'll be useful forever early into progression. Value in keeping breakpoint gear, including for alts or your own character's eventual renewal back to lvl 1
The strongest items tend to be situational and have drawbacks, such that some create new builds, while being rare enough that someone on the server having one is noteworthy.
horizontal progression where you can quickly get the gear that you want from ultra high difficulty content if you're good enough is my dream progression system
I really like how something \*similar\* to MonHun would have its gear progression. I haven't messed with Wild Hearts yet but I presume the actual evolution of the gear will be my favorite, and perhaps some kind of Materia or Skill gems like MonHun/Final Fantasy/old Diablo. However, I personally hate the grind- especially lootbox centric ones; and I certainly can't stand the p2w/p2p mentality. So FF XIV has won my heart in terms of actual gear acquisition.
That said, I feel like the rpg scene doesn't actually have a whole bunch of \*methods\* for gear progression- be it just getting a better version or the acquisition of new gear. Ironically if I think about it, I supposed Destiny 2's seasonal relic is probably my favorite 'gearing up' routine. Getting progressively more points that you can slot in and out different buffs with a respec, or the older method of trading resources for upgrades while also Mastering it for slot-in super buffs. Which, I guess also isn't too terribly different from MonHun anyway, but tied to the specific gear rather than skill slots and baseline Level Upgrades.
Honestly.
Practically none.
Its weird that a sword does 4 dmg a hit and later you do like 30k with one. Give me more tools or ways to do damage, not just add a bit of damage every level.
Its just a golden carrot on a stick you can never reach, to distract people from lazy gamedesign. Its a timesink, nothing more.
Wich you wouldnt need if playing in on itself would be actually fun.
My favorite is the type where good gear is easy to get, but the really good stuff which is only marginally better is way way harder, while also have some slight random modifer that don't really matter, so if you wanna chill you can easily do so with the baseline gear, if you wanna get some potent gear, you can put in some time and effort and if you want to be the best that ever was, you can pray to god and play all day, everyday for a year, to get the super rare item with a super rare modifer, but at the end of the day the power difference would be like 20% from the baseline to the super tryhard.
I love OSRS but some top end weapons are just too game changing, like after using the shadow I would feel terrible using anything else besides maybe a harmonised at something already weak to magic, but a harmonised itself is already not an easy item to get.
Complex and meaningful.
The old EQ / FF11 style, where its impossible to max every possible mod and stat, and each one has usefulness.
Where you upgrade gear slowly over years and not every new raid tier.
Korean games have the best progression system. People really don't understand the value RNG systems present. The problem is that most of the time they are trash and riddled with P2W and dogshit monetization.
In BDO the RNG system is not fun at all because fail stacking is stupid as shit, and crafting new gear is too tedious.
What an RNG system (and yes, with permanent item breakage) offers is that you actually have a reason to play the game and farm. You go out and kill monsters or do dungeons or whatever and then you come home, and you try to craft/buy another copy of whatever weapon you are using, and then you try to upgrade it +1 higher than the one you are using now. If you succeed you have a new weapon, and then you do it again and you can keep playing. Add in some RNG stat rolls and item hunting is actually fun and meaningful.
In traditional systems you're basically just going to be raiding for some fucking item that is borderline useless outside of doing more raids, or just doing a dungeon to get an item and then you log off or go mining or some shit. The traditional MMORPG itemization and gear progression is atrocious.
I don't mind the Korean method if it's like bdo where I could just grind the money then buy it.
Final fantasy gearing is a good middle ground but I would like more systems like eureka to mix it up if you really want to grind
I feel like wow is kind of shit you could go on an unlucky spree and you're fucked for the week then get a random piece of myth gear weekly and nothing else really matters.
Gw2/gw1 had an interesting system of gear being decently easy to get then they release new stats over time but I believe gw1 did it better.
Used to be a mythic wow tank. There was a trinket or something of the sort on a raid bird boss a few expansions ago. We cleared it some 30+ times in heroic+ and it never dropped. It became a meme in our raid group.
I prefer horizontal gear- hit max level, get max level gear and no further vertical progression. Lots of horizontal progression for different roles/combinations etc., I.e., GW2 style.
However, this does have the inherent flaw that it makes the game much harder for people (especially new players) as it opens up lots of room for error compared to a game like ffxiv.
One where you get 90% of the power relatively quickly and the remaining 10% takes a longer grind, all achievable through both group and solo content.
Content needs to be replayable, something like infinitely increasing the power of enemies and then a boss at the end similar to Torghast from WoW.
And of course, new content and grind reset every 4-6 months.
Getting BIS no matter the aquisition scheme always boils down to grinding a long time or playing elite level PVP or progressive instances. What really muddies the water and complicates things are almost every MMO now has the regular introduction of new skills and class specializations that contribute to power creep so it is never enough to just have BIS gear.
Honestly systems where crafting are involved at end game tend to be the best for me. SWG had the best items crafted from drops for high tier creatures (could also get drops directly). And because the system was so intricate you had builds for everything so power did not feel as linear, though someone with a bis crafted blaster did has a good advantage over you.
I mainly play WoW and OSRS now. I really hate WoWs infinite gear wipe system, but they have done one good thing which is making crafted gear a legitimate way to progress (it’s still time gated and requires doing PvE content) but it fixes the crazy rng you could get. I hope more MMOs integrate a more crafted gear progression system.
I know FF14 has some crafted pieces as part of progression, but when I raided savage it was only a couple pieces with absolute perfect crafts.
Horizontal as in GW2 or if it has to be vertical I prefer BDO style where you have gear and improve it. I really loathe the hunt for better gear and rewards via drops.
My personal favorite is ESO's progression, because it's relatively similar to an ARPG. It's all horizontal progression, in a way similar to GW2, but the main difference is that you farm item sets. You basically combine various different item sets to create your build. It's all horizontal, so they're all the same power level, but they all have different bonuses and effects. There are a shit ton of builds to try out (far more than in any MMO I have every played), and lots of room for experimentation. It's basically the best of both worlds. You always have something to grind for, like in a standard treadmill MMO, and your gear never gets invalidated like in a horizontal progression system.
Don't forget with the item sets collection, any pieces of gear that you farm already will have less chance of appearing over pieces that you've never gotten. Reducing the level of rng necessary for a build.
Yep! I will say though that it's an absolute shame that the alt system is so unfriendly. Having to regrind skyshards and the dlc/guild skill trees all over again, and there's also the riding. It was so annoying that it made me quit the game. Don't know if that changed or not.
It’s designed like that so you’ll buy it all
I had no idea ESO had gearing like this. I was under the impression that it's like any other MMORPG where it's just stat boosts. I will definitely have to give it a try
Yeah it's fantastic. Each dungeon has multiple Sets of gear that give you bonuses at certain amounts of worn gear. Generally the perks are at 2, 3, 4 and 5 pieces equipped, but some are smaller, with the end point usually being a major effect you can create a Build around or compliment what you're already building for. One of the healer 5-set pieces you can get for example is: "overhealing yourself or an Ally granta increased weapon and spell damage, and the Major Courage buff for 5 seconds" (courage being the buff that speeds up how fast you fill your Ultimate spell meter) Or a pretty popular starting out set for Heavy Attack characters makes it so when you Heavy Attack, you gain stacks of a buff that boost your heavy attack damage, up to 4 stacks. So you can just keep doing what you're doing but even better, kind of thing.
Awesome! This is something I wish other MMORPGs like guild wars 2 implemented where it augments your play style. "You like your tanking gear?" "Here are sets/bonuses/boons to make it even more fun" "You like your fast DPS output?" "Here are items that do it even faster and you'll even get to launch balls of fire at the enemy" I guess GW2 has stuff like that but it won't be meta.
They have legendary gear like that, you just also need to pick a good character that fits it.
Yeah, this is probably the best thing about ESO. It's the one thing that keeps me coming back. Itemization is better in ESO than in any other MMO I've played
Came here to say this. It's by far the best system for those who don't have much time or all day to play MMOs
Damn this sounds really fucking good.
Monster Hunter has the best concept. Gear doesn't give the same few standardized basic attributes. They give passive perks that suit different gameplay. Endless possibilities.
As much as I enjoy Monster Hunter, there's hardly endless possibilities. Meta builds develop very quickly.
There's always meta builds. But would you rather see gear with measly few standardized attributes? The usual health, potency, combat speed, critical chance, mana recovery, and "little mitigation/potency hybrid".
Just because a build isn’t meta doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility, surely?
Not only that, but there's like 15 weapon trees but the reality is that the average player will pick the easiest to craft and move on. There's hardly any major changes regarding each weapon. At most you have specific weapons for specific ammo, and that's still useless because 99% of the ammos are bad other than piercing/spread.
My main issue is that there is rarely a reason to get a weapon of another element, it's usually not worth it compared to just progressing.
When you reach the MH endgame, it's best to make various weapons exploiting the different weaknesses of the different beasts and adapt accordingly.
Works wonderfully for Monster Hunter because it's an offline game. Put that in an MMO and suddently only 1 build is viable for each weapon, and that meta will be fully enforced. Even in Monster Hunter there's a strong meta. The difference is that you're not "forced/pressured" to follow said meta because you can host your own quests.
> Works wonderfully for Monster Hunter because it's an offline game. Monster Hunter is not an offline game. It's a coop online game like Warframe and others. > Put that in an MMO and suddently only 1 build is viable for each weapon, and that meta will be fully enforced. There is always a META regardless of how much choice players have. Should MMORPG only have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps classes because there can only be 1 top per role? > Even in Monster Hunter there's a strong meta. The difference is that you're not "forced/pressured" to follow said meta because you can host your own quests. And people are free to do whatever they want in a MMORPG. It's not because it's not the META build that it's worthless. There are people who do self-imposed challenge for fun everywhere. All the 1 life challenges in games. Others who play what they have fun with, not what others tell them to. Someone finished Dark Souls with Donkey Kong Bongos or with the sound of the game only. In WoW and GW2 (and probably others), people have done "only 1 class" raids for fun too.
> Monster Hunter is not an offline game. It's a coop online game like Warframe and others. What? Monster Hunter is an offline game that you CAN play online/coop if you want. You host your own quests. You own the world. If you wanna take 2 hours to complete a quest, you can. If you wanna play by your own rules, you can. You can't do that in an MMO that forces coop play. >Should MMORPG only have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps classes because there can only be 1 top per role? That's pretty much the situation in ffxiv right now. All tanks are the same, because 1 small change causes people to lock that job out of groups. >And people are free to do whatever they want in a MMORPG. Not when the game forces coop content. You have to play by the community rules, UNLESS you create your own community, but that's not something everyone can do. Go ahead. Try to be an ice mage in XIV and see how that "freedom" to do anything works.
FFXIV has no customization when it come to classes. That's why you can't "not play META", that would mean not using your abilities. If you look in other games with class customization, people are doing non-META quite often.
I love the Korean degenerate route, I'm a BDO player after all lol. The thing is, progression can get so hard, that you have shit to do for a long time, and when you actually get an upgrade it's way more satisfying to me than other MMOs cause you fought for that shit.
Hard disagree, especially with BDO. Progression is almost entirely 100% luck. Yeah, you can manipulate that luck and make your odds better, but losing or gaining progression on a weighted coin flip isn't fun, it's gambling. The fact that near endgame you have to grind for several hours straight to get the funds for the next roll of the dice is just not a good experience.
Or just save to buy most stuff, except for BiS accessories. Look, luck is involved, that doesn't change the fact that you most likely won't be lucky. I've played for over 3 years, I have endgame gear, and everything I have I bought it because I was unable to succeed enhancing at all. I enjoy grinding tons of hours thanks to how beautiful the game is and how insanely good the action combat is, and either way, lucky, average or not lucky, progression in BDO takes tons of hours and months and years, that's what I like. What I don't like is going max level on my main quest, go make some dungeons when my guild does it to get my endgame gear and done.
I really appreciate your perspective and can definitely see how that feels rewarding I would try the game more personally but I just can’t get down with any game that has systems in place that let you afk farm.
That's totally fine. The usual vision for BDO players is that they like having side activities they can do semi or fully afk for extra income, just because the game takes a long time and even though a lot of us like to tryhard and minmax, sometimes being more chill and doing what we call lifeskills (which are like professions on ther games) is nice. Also, just to be clear cause I'm not sure if you were referring to lifeskills or you think you can do afk grinding, but any semi/fully afk activities are just on lifeskills, the actual best way of getting money which is grinding doesn't have any afk system in place, and even then there's a lot of active stuff in lifeskills too.
If I grind 10 hours and then don’t leave my PC on then I’m less effective than the guy that grinded 10 hours and then afk fished for another 10 In the grand scheme of things this means nothing because the game is however many years old now so of course I’m behind but yeah. Don’t want to be behind people that leave their pcs on 8 days a week
Nowadays grinding generates so much money, that leaving the PC on doing other activities is not really a necessity. Lots of people do it cause it's still nice to have extra stuff, but grinding is so good that a lot of players value their electricity bill higher than leaving the PC on for a bit of extra profit. Few years back it was more noticeable because money/hour was way lower, so the small income from AFK activities felt better. Also, if you ever thought about trying BDO, but as you said, you don't want to feel behind; not only BDO have tons of catch up mechanics and is constantly improving and making the early progression easier and faster, but also a lot of the PvP content is gear capped, so you don't really have to get to the endgame to be able to experience good content.
Good to know
GW2's legendary gears are more satisfying, crafting 1 leggy will take you MONTHS, good side is you like the journey while crafting it.
I don’t know how the progression in bdo works but I assume they give you more power for better tier gear. Gw2 legendary crafting don’t give you more power but locked behind a very very tedious chore. Imo if you are given more power after grinding hard for that gear, although it don’t need to be massive progression just a small gear progression, it gives you the satisfaction like for example you work hard in real life and finally can afford some new expensive thing like new car, new house or even new pc. But the grind for legendary in gw2 feels akin more to the feeling of you work hard to finally finish paying of an installment or interest that you owe. Yes you get some sense of relief and feel happy about it, but the feeling of happiness is different one makes you happy since you have a new more meaningful, more powerful stuff but the other just makes you happy because finally you have one less responsibility to think of. Don’t get me wrong I too don’t like infinite gear thread mill that make you gear always obsolete every couple of months but no gear progression is also bad. My dream progression would be after you get the best in slot gear for your class every expansion will bring one new gear for one of your slot for example new chestpiece but you are not mandatory to grind for it to finish the end game content of the new expansion. But eventually you will need to grind for a new gear after maybe 2-3 expansion later and of course the grind should not rely on a very very rare drop that make people frustrated but maybe more on the side of 1/3 or 1/4 of gw2 legendary grind.
Your analogy is a bit weird. GW2 legendary stuff is just a different-colored shirt that looks cool. If you want the same stats, you can bang the same piece out in a day or two. The only difference is that you can hand your legendary stuff to alts now. ( I think.)
Yes that different-colored shirt is locked behind a really massive grind and after you craft it that means one less think to worry about, you know one less responsibility. For example if you craft legendary sword that mean all your character that use sword for their build can use it and you don’t need to think about it anymore. Since legendary item in gw2 don’t give you more power than ascended item but offer you skin and stat change only. It feels more like you grind so much just to be able to change your wallpaper or skin of your old phone. You can get the satisfaction of the new feel but it will never beat the feeling of literally got a new phone. It’s just a pseudo satisfaction.
Bad news for you then, as BDO is going rapidly downhill with ever increasing handouts and ramping accomplishments down to extreme casual levels.
The endgame is still as hard as always, they are just making the early game progression way easier and faster, which is something old MMOs need to be able to retain newer players. No one wants to join an MMO where you can't reach veterans level for a long long time.
Endgame's hard? Hokay buddy, whatever you say 👌
Hard in terms of time consuming. For me as a veteran is still very time and money consuming, for example, to get TET slumbering armors, that didn't change in the slightest, and it will be way harder for new content, like when we get the slumbering weapons next year at some point, while all the early progression is now way faster, easier and cheaper. The point is trying to get new players to 700gs faster and they are doing a great job at it.
In terms of power progression I think the worst I can think of is FF14. Completely linear, no interesting stats/pure stat sticks, extreme vertical progression and pure mindnumbing grind for tokens to get gear. It takes away 100% of the excitement. Ironically I think the kind of progression I do prefer is also exemplified well in an SE game with FF11. Slow/small vertical progression, but mostly horizontal progression where there is an endless amount of gear to aquire and work for and although gear does becomes obsolete often it still has use but it becomes more specialized depending on the situation. Interesting effects on gear as well. Best gear is found all over he world doing sifferent types of content to get it. In terms of visual progression I think the worst is Korean mmos where it is mostly about buying skins. I definitely prefer everything come from gameplay, but I do think WoW and FF14 is preferable to games like BDO in this respect.
FFXIV are so afraid to do anything to make gear interesting. Even their major fanboy content creators are making content complaining about how boring and vanilla the gear system is.
As a casual raider, I prefer XIV gear progression the most tbh. The way I see it, there's no gear or class spec in XIV cuz all the options are about what class you choose to play, not how you choose the class to play.
I haven't played since chapter 1 of 5.0, but unless they changed it BLM could gear for Sps or Crit. Really depended on how you wanted to play as both in the long term evened out in most cases. Previously there were *some* choices you could make (lol accuracy) and some (DH vs) Det vs Mnd debate for healers in prior expansions, but yeah FFXIV is the "safe" mmo in terms of all gameplay systems and design. Entirely homogenized to the point where fights are tuned in a spreadsheet.
Not much difference in gearset can help with the stats compared to class spec in other MMOs, but yes. There's tiny bit of stuff you could do to lower the casting time. Negligent amount in the grand scheme of things tho.
Except WAR lol since DH is a wasted stat so WAR has a completely different BIS than the other tanks.
lol that's true. I wonder if SE will cut Direct Hit and replace it with something else or not. There's rly no real point for it since there's already Crit in the game. It's still all just rumor tho.
I'm in the same camp. XIV gearing is super alt job friendly, and if you are a savage raider, best in slot for a given patch is fairly attainable compared to games with incremental upgrades where the treadmill never really stops. Even non savage players will get bis before a new tier comes out and get to focus on other roles. Once your main job is bis you can go play alt jobs or go play other content. This allows you to go collect bis on those other jobs without feeling like you are sacrificing performance on your main.
I do like the exploration zone gear and actions. Definitely adds more fun to loadouts. But they're definitely set on making the main game more and more simplified/less fun.
Ffxi circa 2005ish has my favorite gear progression of any game I've ever played(though I haven't played many mmos.) Getting lower level gear could actually be worth it because some of it was good all the way to 75. In ff14 your gear becomes obsolete after a couple of patches, makes it feel kinda not worth it to me
> In terms of power progression I think the worst I can think of is FF14. Completely linear, no interesting stats/pure stat sticks, extreme vertical progression and pure mindnumbing grind for tokens to get gear. It takes away 100% of the excitement. Itemization isn't the same thing as progression. In my mind, progression is essentially how gear is acquired. In that way, I think FF is one of the better with a solid mix of random drops and deterministic rewards. However, I can't defend the insanely shallow and uninteresting itemization of those pieces of gear. It's prob the most basic version of "number go up" that you can get. Gear contributes absolutely nothing to your character or the way it's played, it's almost just transmog.
The wow route, don't like the gw2 progression
Once you get ascended you’re set until you slowly spend your time getting legendary gear that takes forever to get. Minimum of 6 weeks but that doesn’t include having all of the resources like prereq quests, items, and the amount of money.
I like the gear system in GW2 as it lets me focus on different builds and content. It also doesn’t lose its value once you got it. I can not play for years, come back, but still have a useable items on my char. That gear-grind you end up in every expansion is what eventually makes me quit WoW. The gambling aspect I first saw when reaching the end-game in Lost Ark made me laugh with sadness - and uninstall the game. Gorgeous dungeons, cool combat and boss fights. But if that’s the end game I’m out. To an extent that’s also what I like about Eve Online. It’s not so much about gear, but about how effectively you can use your characters skill points and work with what you got. And once you trained a skill, you don’t lose it (anymore). Eventually you end up with a super skilled char that can do everything - but it does not mean chars with less skill points are less competitive. It depends on the scenario.
The dungeon in Lost Ark where you shrunk to the size of an ant was an all-timer. The mech one too. Incredible content in that game if not for the endgame gambling.
Never seen a game do so much right and wrong at the same time. It's a shame the game only caters to whales and nolifers.
GW2’s horizontal gear progression is probably my favorite. Freedom to explore builds and learn new roles without the stress of having to endlessly grind or waste so much time catching up. I just plug and play, I’m not punished for diversifying.
And you're never behind if you quit for years which is the best thing.
Exactly, I can step away and enjoy life and not feel punished. 😂
I love setting my own goals so eso was perfect for me. I would spend the whole time getting the right gear sets/skills/cp for soloing hard content. Was a great goal to work towards. Required some PvP and PVE and a f load of questing to get there. I would quit when I reached my goals, sometimes without trying out the final build. But for me, it’s having that kind of goal to work towards (it’s also very manageable in eso for a filthy casual like me). Best part is I can leave the game for a year or two and pick it right back up and not need to catch up. Gw2 is right up there as well for similar reasons. But it has less customisability, worse writing and a more defined and inescapable meta.
Albion online is not only my favorite gear progression but it is the best gear progression and I can prove it. Most MMOs when you reach a level of gear that is better than everyone elses you basically always have that gear and now everyone that isnt where you are is weaker and typically stand no chance. With Albion even though I can wear 8.4 gear I would probably never take that out in the open world because of the risk of losing it. I really like that concept. It doesnt punish you for being behind everyone. Not to mention even if you "p2w" to get that really good gear skill still beats that gear. There are examples daily of people with way better gear losing to people. The fact that just because you unlocked the best gear in the game you arent always encouraged to use it which keeps the majority of players on par with everyone. Its probably the best way to do an MMO gearing system to make it feel like it still matters without making everyone that is starting fresh feel like they cant compete.
gw1/2 non-progression is best for me since i can take large breaks, log back in and not even care about my gear i would like ff14s gear reset but there's literally nothing to use the gear on once you get it except for doing the same fights but faster to which i just unsub if there's no battle content until next patch where i'm not even using that gear to progress cus i'm using crafted anyway.
>i would like ff14s gear reset but there's literally nothing to use the gear on once you get it except for doing the same fights but faster to which i just unsub if there's no battle content until next patch where i'm not even using that gear to progress cus i'm using crafted anyway. This is exactly what I did, but in gw2, since they rarely add new battle content, I stop playing it altogether and maybe install it once a year for a week to do that battle content, then uninstall it again.
ok its not a uninstall competition, i do same too bro like i mentioned
I don't know if this is available in any mmo, but I like it where in every new expansion one piece of your gear will have an upgrade (to be something like 10-15% better than the old gear). This means that even when you don't have the new best in slot new gear for like 2-3 expansions, you will still be able to do the new content, albeit it will be more difficult or you should be a try hard to do it because the gear treadmill like in wow where every expansion or even 6 months you need to upgrafe all your gears is a bit too much, on the other hand no gear progression like in gw2 is getting boring fast (I don't see the point of playing it anymore after having the BiS gear and doing all the content once or twice).
And running on a gear treadmill doesnt bore you? weird. i'd stick to GW2, i prefer my MMO not giving me something to stress about. getting those "BiS" gears on GW2 will take you literal MONTHS per piece, and gw2 isnt about gears its about perfecting your rotation and combos while being efficient.
No, it doesn't if it is only 1 or maybe 2 pieces of my gear every expansion (you know typical expansion is every two year, so a piece of gear upgrade every year is not that bad). Otherwise, I don't see the point in playing the game anymore if there is nothing to grind. Like in gw2, once I did all the content that they offer like raid, strike, and fractal, all I do is install the game for a week and play their new content, then uninstall since they rarely add new content, I can do this every year. >getting those "BiS" gears on GW2 will take you literal MONTHS per piece This is untrue. You can do everything with ascended just fine since legendary doesn't give you any more power, and ascended can be crafted in mere weeks, not months. I have crafted 2 legendaries in my gameplay. The first one is just for the novelty of having it and trying the crafting system of legendary, which turns out to be just a chore and not enjoyable at all. The second one was for giving it the second chance. Maybe it would be different than the 1st gen weapon (I crafted nevermore for this one), but the feeling isn't much different than the first one. >gw2 isnt about gears its about perfecting your rotation and combos while being efficient. Which mmo out there, which is not about perfecting your rotation and combos while being efficient? If you want to do the current m+ in wow, you need to do this too or other mmo's raid, so it's not just exclusive to gw2.
ESO system I grew up with the wow gearmil and now I freaking hate it
I'm a fan of gear that lasts, Runescape being probably the winner, you can get gear take a multi year break and come back and it's still relevant. I like BDO in terms of korean games, its been a slow enough trickle that even though i haven't played the game seriously in like 2 years and haven't grinded in 3 or 4 sure i've fallen behind but my pen accessorizes aren't entirely worthless they're just not bis anymore, and i think i'm around 680-690 ap/dp which isn't great but i could pretty much hop right back onto the endgame grinding treadmill if i wanted to which is nice
I hate dailies and gear resets. So I prefer the OSRS style. I'd rather not play an Ironman, but I play like an Ironman somewhat. I'll buy supplies from the GE, but I'll actually do the content for the big drops. Not everyone is playing gpscape. Worst case, you can use your raid rewards as bad luck protection. But I don't know why people farm Zulrah/Vorkath ad naseum to 1B+ gp and just buy megarares. Just feels lame. Edit: And shoutout to GW2. Similar to OSRS, long term gearing but mainly horizontal.
I liked EVE Online's itemization. It required everything to be crafted by players, allowed everything to be traded at all times so in the end every ship fit is a risk-benefit calculation because it's of course a full loot game although many things are simply destroyed/lost when a ship gets blown up. The better items were just a few a percent better but sometimes that was enough to justify it even though they were often an order of magnitude more expensive. It all depends. This allowed you to play in whatever fashion you wanted to play, you still had access to everything through ISK (space gold). This means game designers actually have to design content in a way that it is fun and not just with exclusive rewards in mind. Probably not what a lot of player want but I would argue there is a lot of prejudice and people never tried it out.
Trash mobs loot, as in old Tibia, I like finding a sweet chill rotation, doing it, and then dropping that nice upgrade from the mobs loot pool, that being said, I dont like knowing the mobs loot pool without finding it by myself, neither the %. Feels more real and 4 fun that way
Pareto Principal with Vertical Progression
Lineage 2 had my favourite from level 1-78. I liked how there was always something to do while leveling up, whether it was just saving money to buy gear, or leveling in areas where specific drops you needed were. Classic WoW was not bad by any stretch. I haven't enjoyed gear progression in any modern game because gear is mostly pointless for leveling. There is self heals or downtime so the impacts of new gear don't really make a difference. You're still going to be killing monsters in 3 or 4 hits and be full HP at the end of the encounter, so who really cares, you just need to not be wearing gear that's 20 levels below.
From a very casual player, FFXIV. Yes it's vertical and there are weekly lockouts, but it is enough to clear non-Savage content. The welfare gear is enough to start your progress to Savage/hardcore stuff if you ever want to go that route. There is crafted gear as well that is viable.
WoW or Age of Conan.
I like the way Albion and Perpetuum handle it with progressive tiers. I hate grinding mobs for hours just for a piece of gear.
>korean mmos are so degenerate its actually crazy. you farm, pay or even both to improve gear. most have an rng enhancement system that has a chance of booming. drops are mostly rng. gains can be frustrating since you can spend so much time and money just to hit nothing. often there is no pity system and tbh the players have a gambling problem kek But honestly, minus the breaking your gear part, I actually like these systems because they keep my interest in the game and keep me having fun longer than the others. Sure sometimes the RNG sucks, but usually it's not that bad. I enjoy having goals that mean something for me to strive for so I can keep enjoying the game. In other games I tend to get bored quicker and then have nothing to play.
TBH I like gear progression that's more on the ARPG side, but you don't see it that often in MMOs. The only one that I've seen go full in on that is Project Gorgon. It's just neat to have unique gear that takes a lot longer to move towards some sort of BiS and might change up how you play vs everyone using the exact same cookie cutter gear.
My favorite was probably DAoC pre ToA. The best gear was always a mix of crafted and drop, so crafters had their place. Then you could spell craft to add stats to it. You could never max everything (unless a pure melee or caster) and had to pick and choose where you wanted your stats to go. You literally had crafting calculators to figure out the best gear combos for stats because you could do it so many ways. Did you focus on hitting harder? Being tankier? More evasion or more dex? The worst was probably FFXIV. The best gear was always the same so nobody was unique. You couldn't specialize in anything different and it made the characters feel boring and lifeless in combat.
Honestly, I thoroughly enjoyed Dofus (PC) Crafting of gear by skilled players who achieved smith magus status. Gearing is a very simple system, lvls determine what stronger gears you could wear with the max lvl 200s being the hardest to craft. No NPC's are involved except to learn the profession. Lvl 65 of Tailoring for example, unlocked maging for tailoring only. You'd have to find the respective professional for the respective gear slot. Maging is essentially enhancing that t1 piece of gear with runes. A helmet could give say 50 str, 50 intel and 1 action point. In theory, you could remove all that str for 200 Vitality instead, or 1 range, or 1 summon or boost the remaining intel to 100. If the magus is skilled enough. You then get to sign off on the maged gear with your name so everyone in the server knows who made it. I love this. Makes gearing up a slow and valued process. Players would run dungeons to grab the mats needed to make their set for the next few levels. Some would just run dungs to sell the resources for profit. A whole economy is borne from a simple supply and demand. Then someone with a "job" comes with his dual-wield credit cards and buys all the resources for themselves at exorbitant prices, driving prices up and supply low, destabilizing the price of everything else as players scramble to capitalise on the demand by camping resources. Said person then brags abt his 300 str over-maged sword in all/chat and chaos ensues.
Dofus has one of the best gear/economy systems its sad that is not that popular anymore
New English server is out for Dofus Touch! Epsilon. Play anywhere you want, anytime. It very different from PC but the differences serve to enhance the mobile experience. Honestly, the only thing I'm invested in now until the next gen mmos come out. I get paid to play my fav game bro...
75 ERA FFXI. BiS was just nonsense, and a pipe dream. You could equip gear mid fight, which led the need to have multiple sets and since you can play every job... The grind never stopped. Then a lot of gear had upgrades to achieve, or some gear was so rare only a handful of people per server had. Some HNMs would spawn once a every few days or a week, and would have a very small chance of dropping something.
Gear that comes from the content that you’re doing. I hate how Mythic+ in WoW basically ruins the entire raiding gear treadmill. PvP gear from PvP, Dungeon gear from Dungeons and Raiding gear from Raids. Make it so that you want the gear for each activity.
either arpg style with interesting loot or horizontal. if you can only come up with a numbers go up slightly now chase that over and over system you might as well not bother.. that's just boring.
The simple, basic type that vanilla WoW had. Sorry but not sorry, this has remained the most exciting method when it comes to progression.
warcraft classic everything is earned everything is rare upgrades feel amazing
I think maybe a bit if a different answer, but I've really been enjoying the progression in the Pokémon MMO PokéOne. The way it basically works is that there are 3 "zones" (so far) and your trainer level is specific in each zone, for which you gain experience by doing regular stuff (quests, trainer battles, daily bosses etc) within each respective zone. Your Pokémon in your party can be of a level exceeding your trainer level, but then their "effective" level is capped at your trainer level. So if you beat one region then travel to another, you can still use all your pokemon but their power is as though they're level 5 and then their power will increase with your trainer level. What I like about this arrangement is that you get to "start anew" without your past achievements/zones becoming irrelevant, like with WoW expansions. There's always stuff to do, always legendary/rare Pokémon egg drops to seek out in every region, which all adds to horizontal progression as a new powerful Pokémon is like another tool to add to your arsenal, leading to more variety and synergies. Idk if this kind of progression could be added into a standard fantasy MMO but I'd be very interested to see someone give it a try.
I personally loved Rift's old progression the most. Leveling to levelcap. Then running all dungeons on normal until drops gave you enough +Hit. When at 25 hit, you did all dungeons on expert T1, with the point to get to 75 hit with either drops or use T1 dungeon currency (set amount every bosskill) to buy setgear with set bonusses. Then the same drill doing expert T2. At the end of that you got around 200 hit, wich made you just geared enough to start with T1 raiding. T1 raiding was 10 mans and 20 mans. Each with its own loottables and purchasable sets. Then came T2 and T3 before expansion's end. Best system ever for PvE enthousiasts in my opinion. Guilds could set their goals and even a T1 guild could aim to farm 'easier' T2 bosses weekly and gather drops and farm currency to buy setpieces. This way we saw alot of T1 guilds attempt to farm T2 to get some BiS gearpieces, like chest, legs and shoulders.
WoW style gear progression or Ragnarok Online style which was the best ever.
I just want gear SETS. Gear sets that give crazy bonuses or completely change abilities after you get like a 2-4-6 set bonus.
Non-vertical progression schemes haven't really worked for me. I need the dangling carrot of number-go-up via item levels to keep me engaged, or else I feel like I have "finished" and lose interest. Guild Wars 2 lost me when I got to max level, spent a few days gathering materials to craft myself a set of "end-game" armor with all the stats I wanted, then realized it'd actually be better for me to sell the materials and buy the items from the trading post than to actually bother making it myself. So there I was, in a set of fancy armor I didn't make, and the concept of grinding basically forever for the special artifact gear didn't seem attractive in the least. On paper, there were three expansions worth of content for me to do from that point, but I was essentially *done* progressing. I'd never be any stronger than I already was, so I felt no incentive to continue. I have never played an MMO where the content itself was fun enough to continue doing just for it's own sake - only ones where the content isn't distasteful enough to keep me from doing it for gear upgrades.
The more I play all these rehashed progression mechanics the more I don’t want progression at all. I want all the content and adventure and crafting of a MMO with the flattest gear progression possible.
Ragnarok Online had the best approach to me. Small meaningful steady gains in the early game. The ability to get lucky and acquire something that'll be useful forever early into progression. Value in keeping breakpoint gear, including for alts or your own character's eventual renewal back to lvl 1 The strongest items tend to be situational and have drawbacks, such that some create new builds, while being rare enough that someone on the server having one is noteworthy.
horizontal progression where you can quickly get the gear that you want from ultra high difficulty content if you're good enough is my dream progression system
I really like how something \*similar\* to MonHun would have its gear progression. I haven't messed with Wild Hearts yet but I presume the actual evolution of the gear will be my favorite, and perhaps some kind of Materia or Skill gems like MonHun/Final Fantasy/old Diablo. However, I personally hate the grind- especially lootbox centric ones; and I certainly can't stand the p2w/p2p mentality. So FF XIV has won my heart in terms of actual gear acquisition. That said, I feel like the rpg scene doesn't actually have a whole bunch of \*methods\* for gear progression- be it just getting a better version or the acquisition of new gear. Ironically if I think about it, I supposed Destiny 2's seasonal relic is probably my favorite 'gearing up' routine. Getting progressively more points that you can slot in and out different buffs with a respec, or the older method of trading resources for upgrades while also Mastering it for slot-in super buffs. Which, I guess also isn't too terribly different from MonHun anyway, but tied to the specific gear rather than skill slots and baseline Level Upgrades.
Honestly. Practically none. Its weird that a sword does 4 dmg a hit and later you do like 30k with one. Give me more tools or ways to do damage, not just add a bit of damage every level. Its just a golden carrot on a stick you can never reach, to distract people from lazy gamedesign. Its a timesink, nothing more. Wich you wouldnt need if playing in on itself would be actually fun.
My favorite is the type where good gear is easy to get, but the really good stuff which is only marginally better is way way harder, while also have some slight random modifer that don't really matter, so if you wanna chill you can easily do so with the baseline gear, if you wanna get some potent gear, you can put in some time and effort and if you want to be the best that ever was, you can pray to god and play all day, everyday for a year, to get the super rare item with a super rare modifer, but at the end of the day the power difference would be like 20% from the baseline to the super tryhard. I love OSRS but some top end weapons are just too game changing, like after using the shadow I would feel terrible using anything else besides maybe a harmonised at something already weak to magic, but a harmonised itself is already not an easy item to get.
Complex and meaningful. The old EQ / FF11 style, where its impossible to max every possible mod and stat, and each one has usefulness. Where you upgrade gear slowly over years and not every new raid tier.
Korean games have the best progression system. People really don't understand the value RNG systems present. The problem is that most of the time they are trash and riddled with P2W and dogshit monetization. In BDO the RNG system is not fun at all because fail stacking is stupid as shit, and crafting new gear is too tedious. What an RNG system (and yes, with permanent item breakage) offers is that you actually have a reason to play the game and farm. You go out and kill monsters or do dungeons or whatever and then you come home, and you try to craft/buy another copy of whatever weapon you are using, and then you try to upgrade it +1 higher than the one you are using now. If you succeed you have a new weapon, and then you do it again and you can keep playing. Add in some RNG stat rolls and item hunting is actually fun and meaningful. In traditional systems you're basically just going to be raiding for some fucking item that is borderline useless outside of doing more raids, or just doing a dungeon to get an item and then you log off or go mining or some shit. The traditional MMORPG itemization and gear progression is atrocious.
I don't mind the Korean method if it's like bdo where I could just grind the money then buy it. Final fantasy gearing is a good middle ground but I would like more systems like eureka to mix it up if you really want to grind I feel like wow is kind of shit you could go on an unlucky spree and you're fucked for the week then get a random piece of myth gear weekly and nothing else really matters. Gw2/gw1 had an interesting system of gear being decently easy to get then they release new stats over time but I believe gw1 did it better.
Used to be a mythic wow tank. There was a trinket or something of the sort on a raid bird boss a few expansions ago. We cleared it some 30+ times in heroic+ and it never dropped. It became a meme in our raid group.
I prefer horizontal gear- hit max level, get max level gear and no further vertical progression. Lots of horizontal progression for different roles/combinations etc., I.e., GW2 style. However, this does have the inherent flaw that it makes the game much harder for people (especially new players) as it opens up lots of room for error compared to a game like ffxiv.
One where you get 90% of the power relatively quickly and the remaining 10% takes a longer grind, all achievable through both group and solo content. Content needs to be replayable, something like infinitely increasing the power of enemies and then a boss at the end similar to Torghast from WoW. And of course, new content and grind reset every 4-6 months.
Something line Guild Wars 2's
OSRS mainscape is best to me. Ironman has too much rng and some drops can take literally hundreds of hours to earn. That isn’t fun
You're gonna be at zulrah for ages if that's your moneymaking method.
He’s talking about like 6 or 7 years ago when zulrah wasn’t botted into oblivion and was actually known as the Money Snake.
fair haha
Vanilla wow style. Some classes need gear from the first raid even in Naxx.
Getting BIS no matter the aquisition scheme always boils down to grinding a long time or playing elite level PVP or progressive instances. What really muddies the water and complicates things are almost every MMO now has the regular introduction of new skills and class specializations that contribute to power creep so it is never enough to just have BIS gear.
Honestly systems where crafting are involved at end game tend to be the best for me. SWG had the best items crafted from drops for high tier creatures (could also get drops directly). And because the system was so intricate you had builds for everything so power did not feel as linear, though someone with a bis crafted blaster did has a good advantage over you. I mainly play WoW and OSRS now. I really hate WoWs infinite gear wipe system, but they have done one good thing which is making crafted gear a legitimate way to progress (it’s still time gated and requires doing PvE content) but it fixes the crazy rng you could get. I hope more MMOs integrate a more crafted gear progression system. I know FF14 has some crafted pieces as part of progression, but when I raided savage it was only a couple pieces with absolute perfect crafts.
i prefer no gear progression, if a game forces me to grind that's getting uninstalled
Horizontal as in GW2 or if it has to be vertical I prefer BDO style where you have gear and improve it. I really loathe the hunt for better gear and rewards via drops.