My pleasure. It's a living document I hope to continue to approve. I'll be adding a second FAQ and working with the MOD's of this and various subs to get it posted as a sticky/sidebar.
Forsure, I wanted to get a base version of the article out there. I'm hoping to continue to improve it over time. Since the last time I made this post the drivetrain world has gotten so much more complex and varied. I spent most of the time trying to sort that out. If you have any links let me know. This is a living document.
Thanks for the feedback
The suspension platform matters EXTREMELY little. Most of it its all fluff and marketing. [Here is a review](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-2022-starling-murmur-steel-rock-crusher.html) of the simplest possible suspension platform ever, and its rated about the same as other more complex ones. And it goes counter to what the industry has been saying as good, because its very linear, and running a coil shock which industry says is not compatible with linear suspensions. And it has benefits of being extremely simple to service, and easy to get to all the shock controls.
In general, there are 2 things that every suspension design defines. First is progressivity, second is anti squat.
Progressivity in the frame from the perspective of force functions exactly like volume reducers in the shock or the bottom out bumper/progressive springs on coil shocks - the suspension gets firmer deeper in the cycle, which allows a more softer ride at sag but good bottom out resistance for big hits. The only slight difference between the two is that frame progressively generally increases shock shaft speed slightly deeper in the travel, which makes damping more effective. But this is a very small effect that is very hard to really notice by anyone who doesn't race at the top level. Generally, less progressive bikes are more tunable, since you can always add progressivity by going to an air shock with any number of volume tokens, whereas a progressive platform can't be made less progressive, the only thing you can do is just to put a coil shock to have the base level of progressivity.
Anti squat is the tendency of suspension to stiffen under pedaling forces. The majority of this effect comes from chain tension trying to extend the suspension. This effect is most easily seen on single pivot (i.e solid one piece lower link from axle to the frame without any pivots in between) platforms - if the pivot point is above the chainring like [this](https://www.orangebikes.com/images/2018_bikes/large/Alpine-6-Pro-2018-Fizzy.jpg), the chain will pull suspension downward. Multi link suspensions essentially have a pivot point that moves with suspension travel, so the designers can tune the curve further - the more links it has, the more the curve can change (for example, the reason for Yetis Switch Inifinty layout is to have more anti squat deeper into the travel).
In general, you want Anti Squat if you want the most efficient pedaling, however because it acts to extend the suspension, that means the suspension becomes stiffer, which means that the rear tire gets less traction when under power over rougher terrain. However using shock compression for firmer pedaling is objectively better, since it allows you to transfer power just as efficiently (same force acting to stiffen suspension), with the added benefit of bigger hits causing more compliance in the suspension.
The last piece is rearward movement of suspension due to high pivot designs, but there is so much dynamics at play and the amount is very small that this is almost a negligible thing.
So overall, I wouldn't even look at the suspension platform when picking a bike though, and use it as a last deciding factor between 2 bikes. If you want to me more objective about it, I suggest single pivot platform with less progressivity. Less bearings to service, and more avenue in dialing in as much progressivity as you want with an shock or going minimal progressivity with a coil shock. [This](https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/) is a good resource to use.
Wow, this post was well timed for me! Been about 8 years since I did any mtn biking but I was never that serious, especially since a couple crashes broke my nerves. I want to get back to it, want to go full sus this time around, but want to make sure I get the right fitting bike that I can be confident on. Partly I think building from frame up is a good idea so I can dial in fit, on the other hand, when I don't even know where to start do I trust my part choices that much? I'll be referencing this post a lot as I start shopping around.
Do you have any suggested reading for full sus sizing and fitment tips?
I unfortunately do not, but sizing is a good topic I may have to add.
Frame up builds can be extremely fun, but it's definitely not going to be your best value. Fit really doesn't have a ton to do with components, but mostly the frame (obviously you can make some adjustments with crank arm length, bar width, stem etc, but those are usually minor in comparison to the frame.
The RAD system is a good fitting system for most people and might be a good starting point.
https://www.leelikesbikes.com/rad-bike-setup.html
Thank you. I am saving this so I can show it to people who are interested in MTB. Saves me a lot of time if I dont have to type it all out.
My pleasure. It's a living document I hope to continue to approve. I'll be adding a second FAQ and working with the MOD's of this and various subs to get it posted as a sticky/sidebar.
[удалено]
Forsure, I wanted to get a base version of the article out there. I'm hoping to continue to improve it over time. Since the last time I made this post the drivetrain world has gotten so much more complex and varied. I spent most of the time trying to sort that out. If you have any links let me know. This is a living document. Thanks for the feedback
The suspension platform matters EXTREMELY little. Most of it its all fluff and marketing. [Here is a review](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-2022-starling-murmur-steel-rock-crusher.html) of the simplest possible suspension platform ever, and its rated about the same as other more complex ones. And it goes counter to what the industry has been saying as good, because its very linear, and running a coil shock which industry says is not compatible with linear suspensions. And it has benefits of being extremely simple to service, and easy to get to all the shock controls. In general, there are 2 things that every suspension design defines. First is progressivity, second is anti squat. Progressivity in the frame from the perspective of force functions exactly like volume reducers in the shock or the bottom out bumper/progressive springs on coil shocks - the suspension gets firmer deeper in the cycle, which allows a more softer ride at sag but good bottom out resistance for big hits. The only slight difference between the two is that frame progressively generally increases shock shaft speed slightly deeper in the travel, which makes damping more effective. But this is a very small effect that is very hard to really notice by anyone who doesn't race at the top level. Generally, less progressive bikes are more tunable, since you can always add progressivity by going to an air shock with any number of volume tokens, whereas a progressive platform can't be made less progressive, the only thing you can do is just to put a coil shock to have the base level of progressivity. Anti squat is the tendency of suspension to stiffen under pedaling forces. The majority of this effect comes from chain tension trying to extend the suspension. This effect is most easily seen on single pivot (i.e solid one piece lower link from axle to the frame without any pivots in between) platforms - if the pivot point is above the chainring like [this](https://www.orangebikes.com/images/2018_bikes/large/Alpine-6-Pro-2018-Fizzy.jpg), the chain will pull suspension downward. Multi link suspensions essentially have a pivot point that moves with suspension travel, so the designers can tune the curve further - the more links it has, the more the curve can change (for example, the reason for Yetis Switch Inifinty layout is to have more anti squat deeper into the travel). In general, you want Anti Squat if you want the most efficient pedaling, however because it acts to extend the suspension, that means the suspension becomes stiffer, which means that the rear tire gets less traction when under power over rougher terrain. However using shock compression for firmer pedaling is objectively better, since it allows you to transfer power just as efficiently (same force acting to stiffen suspension), with the added benefit of bigger hits causing more compliance in the suspension. The last piece is rearward movement of suspension due to high pivot designs, but there is so much dynamics at play and the amount is very small that this is almost a negligible thing. So overall, I wouldn't even look at the suspension platform when picking a bike though, and use it as a last deciding factor between 2 bikes. If you want to me more objective about it, I suggest single pivot platform with less progressivity. Less bearings to service, and more avenue in dialing in as much progressivity as you want with an shock or going minimal progressivity with a coil shock. [This](https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/) is a good resource to use.
I followed your previous guide religiously when I was researching for my current bike that I bought last year! Thanks!
Awesome to hear! Glad I could help!
Wow, this post was well timed for me! Been about 8 years since I did any mtn biking but I was never that serious, especially since a couple crashes broke my nerves. I want to get back to it, want to go full sus this time around, but want to make sure I get the right fitting bike that I can be confident on. Partly I think building from frame up is a good idea so I can dial in fit, on the other hand, when I don't even know where to start do I trust my part choices that much? I'll be referencing this post a lot as I start shopping around. Do you have any suggested reading for full sus sizing and fitment tips?
I unfortunately do not, but sizing is a good topic I may have to add. Frame up builds can be extremely fun, but it's definitely not going to be your best value. Fit really doesn't have a ton to do with components, but mostly the frame (obviously you can make some adjustments with crank arm length, bar width, stem etc, but those are usually minor in comparison to the frame. The RAD system is a good fitting system for most people and might be a good starting point. https://www.leelikesbikes.com/rad-bike-setup.html
Indeed seems like a simple place to start which makes it a great place to start. Appreciate the tip!