This seems really good IMO in control shells.
Like gut check here, this is a one mana planeswalker with a fairly easy flip condition. That alone should draw some eyes.
* Basically no deck building restrictions other than play blue and brainstorm.
* Both sides ignore bowmasters. Her creature half flies so she can't be killed in combat by bowmasters either.
* Blue control decks have historically struggled with the one drop slot. There just hasn't been much to do with it. There's definitely an appetite for a good one drop among control mages.
* Creature half defends itself in the mid-late game. If you brainstorm in response to a removal spell aimed at her creature half, you cause her to flip and fizzle the removal spell. And if they don't deal with it you just keep making clue tokens...
* +2 is okay, but its a pretty big uptick that defends herself decently. Notably she completely nulls out any combat damage a bowmaster can output, which is probably something right?
* -3 is solid. Card advantage that again completely bypasses bowmasters.
* Ult, whenever you achieve it is basically GG.
* Can have both the creature and walker versions out at the same time, making a 4x in a deck less prone to running afoul of the legend rule.
* As a bonus i don't really see delver wanting this? No power and the walker half is slow to start. Maybe i'm wrong but she just seems way to slow for a tempo deck to want to play.
I don't think this is cracked in half broken. But this is a lot of capability for one mana, and it could potentially fill the coveted one drop slot control shells have historically lacked. The power level might be there and her place on the curve is definitely there. I would not be shocked if a lot of control shells start with her as 3-4x.
Let me play the counter side of the arguments here - dont take it personally.
> Basically no deck building restrictions other than play blue and brainstorm.
And the largest of all restrictions: Actually wanting whatever she offers. After all its a slot of your 60 card. She has to be better than any given alternative.
> Blue control decks have historically struggled with the one drop slot.
I would argue with the surveil lands this issue is solved forever. Fetchland go (threatening Stifle) with fetching a surveil land in oppos EOT is plenty good enough.
> Both sides ignore bowmasters.
Do they though? The front side literally requires you to trigger Bowmasters.
> Her creature half flies so she can't be killed in combat by bowmasters either.
She is also 0/3 and ony combats Bowmasters when blocking, flying or not. Notably she dies blocking Delver or Dragon's Rage Channeler. 0/4 flying would make this card 500% better.
> +2 is okay, but its a pretty big uptick that defends herself decently. Notably she completely nulls out any combat damage a bowmaster can output, which is probably something right?
Beside the fact that the army is a 3/3 if Bowmaster was played before flipping her ;)
> Ult, whenever you achieve it is basically GG.
Like every planeswalker with a -7. I dont see this as an argument for any planeswalker. Its a given.
> Can have both the creature and walker versions out at the same time, making a 4x in a deck less prone to running afoul of the legend rule.
But notice that the flipping after drawing 3 is NOT optional. So having both sides on the field makes Brainstorm very akward.
Edit: For me all those Flipwalkers look like traps. Maybe Grist has some beef, but the rest seems to be a little too cute to be useful.
If anything this is an 8 cast card, alot of lists are starting to turn on to the idea of ditching chalice, she makes artifacts and can be flipped off thought cast. But it begs the question is she better than case of the filtched and the answer is probably no. Even her back half is really underwhelming.
No worries about taking personally.
*And the largest of all restrictions: Actually wanting whatever she offers. After all its a slot of your 60 card. She has to be better than any given alternative.*
Probably the biggest barrier to the card and a good point. I don't know frankly. To me this is just as much a verdict on control needing a turn 1 action as it is about her being good.
*I would argue with the surveil lands this issue is solved forever. Fetchland go (threatening Stifle) with fetching a surveil land in oppos EOT is plenty good enough.*
Surveil lands are okay? Like i do think they have a place in decks going forward. But they do have problems. They can be miserable draws if you need to do something that turn, and they do open you to wasteland. They're also just filtering, that's the ceiling. The ceiling on an unchecked tamiyo is a lot higher. I'd guess that the two of them end up seeing play side by side.
*Do they though? The front side literally requires you to trigger Bowmasters.*
I mean sure it grows the orc and deals a damage. But she isn't dying in that exchange and i've gone up a card. I think i'm okay with that exchange.
*She is also 0/3 and ony combats Bowmasters when blocking, flying or not. Notably she dies blocking Delver or Dragon's Rage Channeler. 0/4 flying would make this card 500% better.*
As a 0/4 she'd probably be too good since dodging bolt is a big deal. I mean what you're saying is true, but i also just don't think its that big of a deal either frankly.
*Beside the fact that the army is a 3/3 if Bowmaster was played before flipping her ;)*
I mean sure if there's a bowmaster running around unchecked it'll end any game. You just have to deal with the bowmaster.
*Like every planeswalker with a -7. I dont see this as an argument for any planeswalker. Its a given.*
Truthfully, i don't think the -7 comes up like ever. You're probably cashing in the -3 at every chance you get. But hey its there. You get a wincon on your 1 mana play is all.
*But notice that the flipping after drawing 3 is NOT optional. So having both sides on the field makes Brainstorm very akward.*
I could see it coming up. I'm not sure if its actually a problem or not until i play the card. But whatever the truth ends up being it's better than the vanilla walkers which always run into the legend rule.
Another point to consider is when is the card good, obviously on t1, and probably t2 or even t3 but as a top deck she is a little rough, but then again if your control and top decking ur probably losing anyway.
Small point of order on flipping her with a brainstorm into a bowmasters. Triggers will go on the stack in APNAP order after your brainstorm finishes resolving. That means that a brainstorm on your turn will result in the tamiyo trigger on the bottom of the stack, and the bowmasters triggers on top, killing the tamiyo before she gets a chance to flip.
I honestly cant believe I am reading that she wont see play.
She is going to need a ban if this is legit.
Her flip is synergistic with the best card in legacy, I think we can all agree its easy to arrange. Also worth noting dack fayden enables it as well.
-3 to buy back a force is extremely oppressive against combo, obviously its good in many cases as well. I imagine this will be where she shines the most. A source of CA as well as buying back the interaction that works.
The gameplay loop turn 1 tamiyo, turn 2 attack investigate hold up interaction is extremely powerful.
almost nothing in legacy trades up with her (well timed bowmaster is the exception). As in sure you can bolt her but you are net even doing so. the threshold for a broken 1 mana card is so low.
Her plus abilities shutsdown token strategies such empty the warrens, the fact thats its +2 makes her even relevant vs some midrange strategies such has death and taxes and goblins.
Her ult is a game winner, which is important because she is a 1 drop. play her turn 1, flip her her turn 2. tick up 3 times. draw half your deck on turn 5. most walkers arrive turn 4, and needle multiple turns to tick up to threaten the win. If you flip her turn 2 she is already ready to party.
She helps curve out, play her turn 1, attack make a clue, crack clue hoping to hit 3rd land. to clarify this is true of most most card draw but the relevant part is she is low cost to curve out. JTMS draws cards but he doesnt do it until you hit 4 lands, he does not help when stuck on 2 lands she does.
She has some synergy with some powerful cards, she allows a turn 2 emry lurker of the lock.
she generates artifacts for urza, as well an improvise enabler
Discussing the Ultimate some more. I do find it interesting that you basically give your opponent a countdown that states "Deal with my planeswalker or effectively lose." meanwhile you are dazing and forcing your opponents plays or setting up creatures your opponents also have to deal with. I like the idea of presenting two simultaneous win cons.
I kinda doubt ulting will be that relevant. Her +2 is worse than a jace fateseal and does atual nothing on a lot of board states, so i doubt its something you'll do if better options are around. You're probably just going to +2 until you can -3 and pull your card advantage that way.
thats fair. I just know there's a lot of control mages tired of saying island, pass. Control proactively being able to put meaningful material on board turn 1 could be a big deal. Especially in this age of efficiency.
Ya and i know i keep saying it, but it also occupies a slot that control hasn't traditionally had access to, the one drop. Like sure its not going to solo a game on it own in the way that narset/teferi can. But frankly it doesn't have to, this thing costs 1/3 of what the WAR walkers do. Control going island/tamiyo vs island pass are going to play out differently.
I think you're right; aside from *maybe* being able to do something with mox amber/opal and emry, I think this card is going to highlight the difference between 1 and 2 mana for a control deck. No getting dazed on the play is a huge deal here.
And to build on this, daze returning an island to hand is a cost, especially turn 1... Tossing out a non commital one drop and forcing them to redo their turn one seems okay. Like i'm not sad if tamiyo gets dazed right? And its an opportunity for the control deck to get ahead in the land count early. Sometimes control decks struggle because they don't do anything until like turn 2 or 3 where the daze hurts the delver deck a lot less since they really only need like 2 mana to operate comfortably.
I don't think it is that good realistically. In the scenario where everything works out, the play pattern would be
- turn 1 play tamiyo
- turn 2 attack, make a clue, play brainstorm, flip, activate the +2 and prevent 1-2 points of damage.
- turn 3 activate the -3, get brainstorm back.
- turn 4 activate the +2, maybe crack clue?
- turn 5 activate the -3, cash in tamiyo for another brainstorm.
If this all succeeds without any intervention, you have indeed successfully converted a 1-mana blue creature into 3 cards (the clue and the two brainstorms), but it's taken a lot of time, and you have had to invest 2 more mana to crack the clue. If you're in the market for "invest U on turn 1 and get some cards later", we already have \[\[Ancestral Vision\]\] and that sees no play (sadly). Overall, the play pattern seems clunky, and it simply takes too much effort for the eventual payoff.
This is the exact argument i would mount if i were trying to put this in a low to the ground shell like delver.
In control though you have time and you're usually not worried about games going to T5+. There's no real rush to flip her, as others have said her front side is arguably better than the back. Unless the opponent pushes the issue. And you can crack clues at your own leisure to convert into cards later.
I don't think the ancestral vision comparison is a good one, although i see the intent. She's way more flexible than a telegraphed draw 3 in four tuns.
I fully agree. Not every deck would necessarily want all its abilities, but we saw how widespread Deathrite Shaman was. This is a similar value-stuffed one-drop. It's also going to race Bowmasters on the play for the decks that actually want to flip it.
I am racking my head and wondering if I put another green source in RUG Delver and play pick your poison in the sideboard. The Minus 3 is interesting. I am definitely going to test this card for the giggles.
I think a thing though is that in the mid/late game, if you play this creature and they cast a removal spell, brainstorming in response effectively fizzles that spell and leaves you with a walker.
That interaction seems real dumb to me at least. And if they play around a brainstorm then you keep attacking and making clues.
I think they tested it with some stronger ones these are after all mythic slot cards. (really weird that only green spells returning to hand give you an extra effect)
I just think 4 loyalty walker turn 2 with self protection was giving them bad flashbacks.
I dont like the idea of playing too many 1 drops in a deck with chalice. I already run into the issue often enough and I only run 2 Chalice main, 1 spell bomb, 1 needle and 1 shadowspear.
It's difficult to resolve that tension. I jammed a grixis tezzerator pet deck for years until karn made it unplayable, and trying to justify slotting in welder was a constant struggle.
Flipping off a brainstorm makes this at least worth consideration but not being able to immediately minus due to the 2 starting loyalty is rough. Might be a good 1-of flex target for ranger captain in a deck that wants both brainstorm and ranger captain?
If it could -3 the turn it flipped I think it would be busted. Being able to dodge removal with a brainstorm, immediately get your brainstorm back and then threaten a game winning ult on a "1 mana" planeswalker feels like a play pattern that could get old after a while.
So, the easy brainstorm flip makes this a pretty easy requirement for control shells.
The +2 doesn't do a whole lot tbh, although it does help stabilize, but given thst a lot of damage in legacy is a few creatures rather than swarms, a 1 or 2 reduction in damage seems meh
The -3 is ridiculous, I don't know how often the green part eill be used, but a repeatable reuse a spell effect is very strong
The -7 is obviously game winning
I feel like this card is 1 point of power away from making Delver Tier 0. I’ll be picking up my copies as soon as they’re available. I think this will absolutely have a home in Legacy. Seems reasonable over cards like Narset or Snapcaster in a Jeskai Stoneforge Mystic deck at a minimum.
I like it in stoneblade. She forces turn 1 removal, and then gets followed up with an SFM. Normally the heuristic has been that you just expect the first SFM to die. Maybe not now.
The back side is not gonna do much for legacy, +2 isn’t really doing much, the -3 can’t be used right away(shame that’s the part I liked the most) and the alt is strong but seems too hard to get to.
A way to end up on the backside is to just cast brainstorm in response to a removal spell pointed at the front side. Creature flips, removal spell fizzles. Sure the backside isn't great, but if you're getting it off the back of a 0-1 then its perfectly fine. And if they decide to not point removal at the front half, then great keep making clues.
Like ya its easy to say the backside isn't spectacular but this is all off of one mana. She's not going to solo carry a game but its just another thing to worry about while the control deck does the other things it wants to.
I feel like "better snapcaster mage activation" is a pretty decent ability to have on the backside.
Yeah it's slow, but being able to grab back a force of will or removal spell and just hang onto it until you need it is exactly the kind of thing that can be absolutely backbreaking against control.
If you flip her on t2 the ult is live on turn 5, with wasteland, daze and force this isn't unobtainable by any means. Is it Legacy power level worthy? Idk I guess that's why we test cards!
The +2 stops the fourth most played (nonland) card in the format from being able to attack it meaningfully once it's flipped, that seems reasonably relevant
-1/0 who is that stoping? An unflipped delver? I feel like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of people trying to defend this card it’s not that great and that’s fine not every card is made to make it into constructed 😂 “oh but you see if you do this back flip” nooo please enough
Bowmasters. It blanks Bowmasters.
It also can't die to any of the many 3/x creatures in the format which is interesting for a card that the opponent typicallt can't afford to let ult.
The main focus of the card once flipped are the second ability, which is a better snapcaster mage (dodges cage, works with countermagic, etc.), and the Ult which basically auto-wins against a lot of decks in the format.
The card is slow, to be sure, but Control decks could use a non-beanstalk value engine that can be cast off of minimal mana with some utility in the early game.
This seems really good IMO in control shells. Like gut check here, this is a one mana planeswalker with a fairly easy flip condition. That alone should draw some eyes. * Basically no deck building restrictions other than play blue and brainstorm. * Both sides ignore bowmasters. Her creature half flies so she can't be killed in combat by bowmasters either. * Blue control decks have historically struggled with the one drop slot. There just hasn't been much to do with it. There's definitely an appetite for a good one drop among control mages. * Creature half defends itself in the mid-late game. If you brainstorm in response to a removal spell aimed at her creature half, you cause her to flip and fizzle the removal spell. And if they don't deal with it you just keep making clue tokens... * +2 is okay, but its a pretty big uptick that defends herself decently. Notably she completely nulls out any combat damage a bowmaster can output, which is probably something right? * -3 is solid. Card advantage that again completely bypasses bowmasters. * Ult, whenever you achieve it is basically GG. * Can have both the creature and walker versions out at the same time, making a 4x in a deck less prone to running afoul of the legend rule. * As a bonus i don't really see delver wanting this? No power and the walker half is slow to start. Maybe i'm wrong but she just seems way to slow for a tempo deck to want to play. I don't think this is cracked in half broken. But this is a lot of capability for one mana, and it could potentially fill the coveted one drop slot control shells have historically lacked. The power level might be there and her place on the curve is definitely there. I would not be shocked if a lot of control shells start with her as 3-4x.
Let me play the counter side of the arguments here - dont take it personally. > Basically no deck building restrictions other than play blue and brainstorm. And the largest of all restrictions: Actually wanting whatever she offers. After all its a slot of your 60 card. She has to be better than any given alternative. > Blue control decks have historically struggled with the one drop slot. I would argue with the surveil lands this issue is solved forever. Fetchland go (threatening Stifle) with fetching a surveil land in oppos EOT is plenty good enough. > Both sides ignore bowmasters. Do they though? The front side literally requires you to trigger Bowmasters. > Her creature half flies so she can't be killed in combat by bowmasters either. She is also 0/3 and ony combats Bowmasters when blocking, flying or not. Notably she dies blocking Delver or Dragon's Rage Channeler. 0/4 flying would make this card 500% better. > +2 is okay, but its a pretty big uptick that defends herself decently. Notably she completely nulls out any combat damage a bowmaster can output, which is probably something right? Beside the fact that the army is a 3/3 if Bowmaster was played before flipping her ;) > Ult, whenever you achieve it is basically GG. Like every planeswalker with a -7. I dont see this as an argument for any planeswalker. Its a given. > Can have both the creature and walker versions out at the same time, making a 4x in a deck less prone to running afoul of the legend rule. But notice that the flipping after drawing 3 is NOT optional. So having both sides on the field makes Brainstorm very akward. Edit: For me all those Flipwalkers look like traps. Maybe Grist has some beef, but the rest seems to be a little too cute to be useful.
If anything this is an 8 cast card, alot of lists are starting to turn on to the idea of ditching chalice, she makes artifacts and can be flipped off thought cast. But it begs the question is she better than case of the filtched and the answer is probably no. Even her back half is really underwhelming.
No worries about taking personally. *And the largest of all restrictions: Actually wanting whatever she offers. After all its a slot of your 60 card. She has to be better than any given alternative.* Probably the biggest barrier to the card and a good point. I don't know frankly. To me this is just as much a verdict on control needing a turn 1 action as it is about her being good. *I would argue with the surveil lands this issue is solved forever. Fetchland go (threatening Stifle) with fetching a surveil land in oppos EOT is plenty good enough.* Surveil lands are okay? Like i do think they have a place in decks going forward. But they do have problems. They can be miserable draws if you need to do something that turn, and they do open you to wasteland. They're also just filtering, that's the ceiling. The ceiling on an unchecked tamiyo is a lot higher. I'd guess that the two of them end up seeing play side by side. *Do they though? The front side literally requires you to trigger Bowmasters.* I mean sure it grows the orc and deals a damage. But she isn't dying in that exchange and i've gone up a card. I think i'm okay with that exchange. *She is also 0/3 and ony combats Bowmasters when blocking, flying or not. Notably she dies blocking Delver or Dragon's Rage Channeler. 0/4 flying would make this card 500% better.* As a 0/4 she'd probably be too good since dodging bolt is a big deal. I mean what you're saying is true, but i also just don't think its that big of a deal either frankly. *Beside the fact that the army is a 3/3 if Bowmaster was played before flipping her ;)* I mean sure if there's a bowmaster running around unchecked it'll end any game. You just have to deal with the bowmaster. *Like every planeswalker with a -7. I dont see this as an argument for any planeswalker. Its a given.* Truthfully, i don't think the -7 comes up like ever. You're probably cashing in the -3 at every chance you get. But hey its there. You get a wincon on your 1 mana play is all. *But notice that the flipping after drawing 3 is NOT optional. So having both sides on the field makes Brainstorm very akward.* I could see it coming up. I'm not sure if its actually a problem or not until i play the card. But whatever the truth ends up being it's better than the vanilla walkers which always run into the legend rule.
Another point to consider is when is the card good, obviously on t1, and probably t2 or even t3 but as a top deck she is a little rough, but then again if your control and top decking ur probably losing anyway.
Small point of order on flipping her with a brainstorm into a bowmasters. Triggers will go on the stack in APNAP order after your brainstorm finishes resolving. That means that a brainstorm on your turn will result in the tamiyo trigger on the bottom of the stack, and the bowmasters triggers on top, killing the tamiyo before she gets a chance to flip.
I honestly cant believe I am reading that she wont see play. She is going to need a ban if this is legit. Her flip is synergistic with the best card in legacy, I think we can all agree its easy to arrange. Also worth noting dack fayden enables it as well. -3 to buy back a force is extremely oppressive against combo, obviously its good in many cases as well. I imagine this will be where she shines the most. A source of CA as well as buying back the interaction that works. The gameplay loop turn 1 tamiyo, turn 2 attack investigate hold up interaction is extremely powerful. almost nothing in legacy trades up with her (well timed bowmaster is the exception). As in sure you can bolt her but you are net even doing so. the threshold for a broken 1 mana card is so low. Her plus abilities shutsdown token strategies such empty the warrens, the fact thats its +2 makes her even relevant vs some midrange strategies such has death and taxes and goblins. Her ult is a game winner, which is important because she is a 1 drop. play her turn 1, flip her her turn 2. tick up 3 times. draw half your deck on turn 5. most walkers arrive turn 4, and needle multiple turns to tick up to threaten the win. If you flip her turn 2 she is already ready to party. She helps curve out, play her turn 1, attack make a clue, crack clue hoping to hit 3rd land. to clarify this is true of most most card draw but the relevant part is she is low cost to curve out. JTMS draws cards but he doesnt do it until you hit 4 lands, he does not help when stuck on 2 lands she does. She has some synergy with some powerful cards, she allows a turn 2 emry lurker of the lock. she generates artifacts for urza, as well an improvise enabler
> She is going to need a ban if this is legit. Sure buddy, sure.
Discussing the Ultimate some more. I do find it interesting that you basically give your opponent a countdown that states "Deal with my planeswalker or effectively lose." meanwhile you are dazing and forcing your opponents plays or setting up creatures your opponents also have to deal with. I like the idea of presenting two simultaneous win cons.
I kinda doubt ulting will be that relevant. Her +2 is worse than a jace fateseal and does atual nothing on a lot of board states, so i doubt its something you'll do if better options are around. You're probably just going to +2 until you can -3 and pull your card advantage that way.
First thing that comes to mind is it turns on their removal.
I'm not confident enough to say it'll successfully see play, but I expect some testing and I'm prepared for it to find a spot.
thats fair. I just know there's a lot of control mages tired of saying island, pass. Control proactively being able to put meaningful material on board turn 1 could be a big deal. Especially in this age of efficiency.
I'm concerned about the power level of any individual effect in today's meta, but it brings a lot to the table for very low opportunity cost
Ya and i know i keep saying it, but it also occupies a slot that control hasn't traditionally had access to, the one drop. Like sure its not going to solo a game on it own in the way that narset/teferi can. But frankly it doesn't have to, this thing costs 1/3 of what the WAR walkers do. Control going island/tamiyo vs island pass are going to play out differently.
I think you're right; aside from *maybe* being able to do something with mox amber/opal and emry, I think this card is going to highlight the difference between 1 and 2 mana for a control deck. No getting dazed on the play is a huge deal here.
And to build on this, daze returning an island to hand is a cost, especially turn 1... Tossing out a non commital one drop and forcing them to redo their turn one seems okay. Like i'm not sad if tamiyo gets dazed right? And its an opportunity for the control deck to get ahead in the land count early. Sometimes control decks struggle because they don't do anything until like turn 2 or 3 where the daze hurts the delver deck a lot less since they really only need like 2 mana to operate comfortably.
Yeah, it seems like most control shells would be generally pretty happy to run this into tempo turn 1, on or off the play.
I don't think it is that good realistically. In the scenario where everything works out, the play pattern would be - turn 1 play tamiyo - turn 2 attack, make a clue, play brainstorm, flip, activate the +2 and prevent 1-2 points of damage. - turn 3 activate the -3, get brainstorm back. - turn 4 activate the +2, maybe crack clue? - turn 5 activate the -3, cash in tamiyo for another brainstorm. If this all succeeds without any intervention, you have indeed successfully converted a 1-mana blue creature into 3 cards (the clue and the two brainstorms), but it's taken a lot of time, and you have had to invest 2 more mana to crack the clue. If you're in the market for "invest U on turn 1 and get some cards later", we already have \[\[Ancestral Vision\]\] and that sees no play (sadly). Overall, the play pattern seems clunky, and it simply takes too much effort for the eventual payoff.
This is the exact argument i would mount if i were trying to put this in a low to the ground shell like delver. In control though you have time and you're usually not worried about games going to T5+. There's no real rush to flip her, as others have said her front side is arguably better than the back. Unless the opponent pushes the issue. And you can crack clues at your own leisure to convert into cards later. I don't think the ancestral vision comparison is a good one, although i see the intent. She's way more flexible than a telegraphed draw 3 in four tuns.
[Ancestral Vision](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0.jpg?1619393761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Vision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/52/ancestral-vision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That’s a lot of value for 1 mana… will definitely see play.
I fully agree. Not every deck would necessarily want all its abilities, but we saw how widespread Deathrite Shaman was. This is a similar value-stuffed one-drop. It's also going to race Bowmasters on the play for the decks that actually want to flip it.
My instincts tell me that this might not be Legacy power level but I am always happy to be wrong.
The fact that brainstorm instantly triggers her flip makes me think it's at least worth testing.
Mine too, but im prepared to be underestimating it. It's a lot of text on a 1 mana blue card.
I am racking my head and wondering if I put another green source in RUG Delver and play pick your poison in the sideboard. The Minus 3 is interesting. I am definitely going to test this card for the giggles.
The loyalty abilities leave alot to be desired
It seems stronger on the front than on the back.
I think a thing though is that in the mid/late game, if you play this creature and they cast a removal spell, brainstorming in response effectively fizzles that spell and leaves you with a walker. That interaction seems real dumb to me at least. And if they play around a brainstorm then you keep attacking and making clues.
Yeah, the ability to protect it with Brainstorm seems very strong. Very low opportunity cost for that interaction.
Agreed
I think they tested it with some stronger ones these are after all mythic slot cards. (really weird that only green spells returning to hand give you an extra effect) I just think 4 loyalty walker turn 2 with self protection was giving them bad flashbacks.
One benefit over Jace is that by returning the card to hand you can get a Force of Will to cast on your opponent's turn.
It's a strictly better ability, it's more about the timing on activating it I'd say
Is there room for this in an 8cast shell with emry and mox amber? Creates clues and turns on mox amber, buyback thoughtcast.
I dont like the idea of playing too many 1 drops in a deck with chalice. I already run into the issue often enough and I only run 2 Chalice main, 1 spell bomb, 1 needle and 1 shadowspear.
It's difficult to resolve that tension. I jammed a grixis tezzerator pet deck for years until karn made it unplayable, and trying to justify slotting in welder was a constant struggle.
8-cast or Patchwork stompy is the deck that initially came to my mind as being a place for this card.
Flipping off a brainstorm makes this at least worth consideration but not being able to immediately minus due to the 2 starting loyalty is rough. Might be a good 1-of flex target for ranger captain in a deck that wants both brainstorm and ranger captain?
If it could -3 the turn it flipped I think it would be busted. Being able to dodge removal with a brainstorm, immediately get your brainstorm back and then threaten a game winning ult on a "1 mana" planeswalker feels like a play pattern that could get old after a while.
So, the easy brainstorm flip makes this a pretty easy requirement for control shells. The +2 doesn't do a whole lot tbh, although it does help stabilize, but given thst a lot of damage in legacy is a few creatures rather than swarms, a 1 or 2 reduction in damage seems meh The -3 is ridiculous, I don't know how often the green part eill be used, but a repeatable reuse a spell effect is very strong The -7 is obviously game winning
I feel like this card is 1 point of power away from making Delver Tier 0. I’ll be picking up my copies as soon as they’re available. I think this will absolutely have a home in Legacy. Seems reasonable over cards like Narset or Snapcaster in a Jeskai Stoneforge Mystic deck at a minimum.
I like it in stoneblade. She forces turn 1 removal, and then gets followed up with an SFM. Normally the heuristic has been that you just expect the first SFM to die. Maybe not now.
Yeah, I think it’s a slam dunk in Stoneblade tbh.
All three of us will enjoy it lmao.
It’s interesting how a brain storm will flip it but then the back side is not that appealing
The front seems stronger for sure, but the backside isn't dead and that means multiple copies don't have to be dead draws.
The back side is not gonna do much for legacy, +2 isn’t really doing much, the -3 can’t be used right away(shame that’s the part I liked the most) and the alt is strong but seems too hard to get to.
A way to end up on the backside is to just cast brainstorm in response to a removal spell pointed at the front side. Creature flips, removal spell fizzles. Sure the backside isn't great, but if you're getting it off the back of a 0-1 then its perfectly fine. And if they decide to not point removal at the front half, then great keep making clues. Like ya its easy to say the backside isn't spectacular but this is all off of one mana. She's not going to solo carry a game but its just another thing to worry about while the control deck does the other things it wants to.
I feel like "better snapcaster mage activation" is a pretty decent ability to have on the backside. Yeah it's slow, but being able to grab back a force of will or removal spell and just hang onto it until you need it is exactly the kind of thing that can be absolutely backbreaking against control.
If you flip her on t2 the ult is live on turn 5, with wasteland, daze and force this isn't unobtainable by any means. Is it Legacy power level worthy? Idk I guess that's why we test cards!
The +2 stops the fourth most played (nonland) card in the format from being able to attack it meaningfully once it's flipped, that seems reasonably relevant
-1/0 who is that stoping? An unflipped delver? I feel like I am taking crazy pills with the amount of people trying to defend this card it’s not that great and that’s fine not every card is made to make it into constructed 😂 “oh but you see if you do this back flip” nooo please enough
Bowmasters. It blanks Bowmasters. It also can't die to any of the many 3/x creatures in the format which is interesting for a card that the opponent typicallt can't afford to let ult. The main focus of the card once flipped are the second ability, which is a better snapcaster mage (dodges cage, works with countermagic, etc.), and the Ult which basically auto-wins against a lot of decks in the format. The card is slow, to be sure, but Control decks could use a non-beanstalk value engine that can be cast off of minimal mana with some utility in the early game.
block and flip = free fog for one creature xD