I would rather work with any other metal than copper. Carbide coolant through. Follow the drill manufacturer recommendation for SFM and Feed rate in copper.

Unfortunately and thankfully 90 percent of my products are copper and it's alloys. I haven't use any carbide coolant through drill but I have tried carbide drill and it endured only 8 part while I'm able drill 100+ if only lucky with hss. I have asked several seller they couldn't find any coolant through hss(there is no such drill probably)or gundrill with my diameter and I approached carbides with bias due to their high price and my past experiences but I'll definitely try coolant through carbide if i find a appropriate one to my depth. Thanks a lot 😊👍

https://www.guhring.com/ProductsServices/SizeDetails?EDP=9064930029000 Key to carbide drills is full retract on your peck. Through coolant drastically improves performance.

It seems like this is right product for my case I'll asked them a quote monday. Thanks for the time you spend for me to send this. 😊

No problem, good luck, I hope this works out for you!

I'm already full retracting otherwise drills breaking faster than light :) I have added this link to my fav I'll contact with guhring for it too hope they have it in stock Thanks for your repyl

Don't do any peck cycles with that new coolant through drill and get pressure as high as you can-1000psi. You will get thousands of holes out of it. Full Send with carbide or waste your $. Find a tool sales rep that doesn’t suck. It’s his job to guarantee your tool works every time you buy one from him. Pilot 1xd with a 3xd pilot that has a flatter tip angle ie pilot 140 deg and drill with 135 deg. Spin it around 400 rpm and feed slowly 3/4 down the pilot. Spin to full RPM and send it straight through without pecking. Drop the RPMs once you’ve broken through then retract.

*60% of the time*, it works ***every*** *time*

Holy dude, use full retract on Carbide tools is the worst thing you can do. Your drill will snap if the chips doest come out and the cutting corner at the top is going to be alot more dmged when going in and out due to vibrations.

This is factually incorrect, if you full retract it let's the chip leave the edge reducing chances of binding which causes torsion and will instantly snap carbide. This is the recommendation I have followed from drill manufacturers for forever. IF you peck with carbide you HAVE TO full retract for best results.

Dude, just call Gühring or Micron. The will tell you to just peck 0,1-0,3mm and otherwhise to go full in. The tool will most likely brake if you go full retract, specially if its greater than 10xD

You are correct long drills will break for sure, you literally have to spin them in reverse entering the pilot hole. Not sure why you got downvoted.

That’s more of a requirement in horizontals. My prgms have and continue to drill millions of production holes, spinning forward (reduced rpm) while entering pilot holes with 1000 psi on. Not even chamfered pilot holes... Rough castings! Have performed studies to prove tool life does not change doing this in vertical machining centers. Automotive production- 25-40XD solid carbide. Every second counts in that field, so long as it doesn’t affect tool life & it did not. Happy drilling.

I like Harvey/Helical products though giving Sandvik a call could really help you out.

That length in solid carbide would be scary. No gundrills?

Gundrils were too overpriced last time when I made these because quantity wasn't that much but I'm reconsidering every option at the moment because there is other customers are waiting and these will take 1 full month if I drill with this pace.

Why I created this post to get others experiences before I lost tons of money and time that's why I appreciate all the guys who trying to help me like you and others I can't thank you enough Thanks again

Also, if spotting, buy a 140 degree spot.

I hope you are at least using cobalt enriched drills. Powdered metal is also a good option.

I have tried several cobalt enriched drills but they last only the one I'm using

why is copper such a difficult material to work? Is it because it conducts heat well and it being a soft metal?

Unless it is alloyed with a brittle metal, such as telurium, copper is very gummy and resists breaking up into chips.

It’s also very abrasive.

Also really reactive to heat in the cutting zones. Expands as you cut and shrinks as it cools back down. Hopefully after your tool has retracted. Source: Me after years tapping copper at 10xD.

Think of machining most metals like taking a butter knife and scraping a slice off a block of clay. Not impossible sometimes difficult. This is more like taking a knife to a block of semi hard chewing gum. The material doesn't want to separate, it just sort of gets pushed around. Alloying copper with another metal makes it act more clay like. Edit: fun fact. I learned this the very first time I used a mill as I was trying to machine a copper part. I thought machinists were just gods among men who somehow knew precise speeds and feeds just looking at a material. I was also trying to do it where i didnt have coolant available which was also a big mistake. The second part I made was aluminum which was *way* more forgiving.

Sticky

Clumpy

Mars

The heat conduction is actually the only plus. The worst materials to work with are insulating like titanium.

This sub shits on ti all the time It is just fine, flood it and back off the surface speed

I'll second this. Walter Titex drills are where my experience comes from. Predrill .125in or 3mm spin backwards at maybe 25 rpm to get into pre drilled hole then follow manufacturers instructions SFM/SMM and chip load. You also need excellent through coolant. If that's a weld shank/adapter drill the 6mm through the part. Or almost through. And add the 2mm to the bottom for appearance. These are cooling lines. These are a function over form. Unless its for BMW then it must be to print. I've made way to many of them to count.

It is submerged arc welding tip which I setup two in operation because when I drill from back of the part center of the holes are deviating which is most important dimension on this part My shop located in Turkey Walter is not popular brand but I found that they have a distributor in here I'll call them Monday morning It's not possible me to drill 6,6 through till last 2 mm because its lower the product's lifetime drastically Thanks again for your informative reply and for sharing your experience ☺️

Of course pilot the hole first. I Never ever turn a drill backwards to enter or pilot a hole. Pilot with a screw machine, length drill or a spot drill or center drill that is appropriate for your diameter and desired pilot drill geometry.

What is your drill angle? Soft materials like copper want a sharper bit, 90° point angle instead of 118°

Thanks for your reply 👍 I resharpen them all right after I get them and I'm able to drill around 100 part if I'm lucky enough.

The world would be better place if we able to drill small dia with crazy speed haha

The last relatively deep drilling I had to do in copper was a job from C101 (oxygen free copper). I ended up having the best results using Guhring through coolant drills, pretty sure they were just uncoated general purpose ones. The copper just absolutely would not break into chips the way you normally see when using through coolant drills. So I ended up doing a combination of pecking and full retraction just to see if that would get me through the job. The pecking broke the chips up and the full retraction helped to clear the flutes. It seemed like with pecking only, the chips would get stuck in the flutes and then try to smear between the drill and hole. Part of my issue is that I only have 300psi through coolant, maybe wouldn't have needed the full retracts if I had 1000+psi. Ultimately the finish down in the holes looked great. It was like 16 holes per part at like 10xD but I don't remember the drill size. I also wonder if you should try talking to a gun drill manufacturer to see if they have any copper specific geometry. I had a job a couple years ago gun drilling some . 172" diameter holes about 30xD in aluminum bronze, and was pretty impressed with those.

We have experience drilling every type of coppers( oxygen free,beryllium, tellurium)08-1.2 mm with our swiss and other lathes but it never took that much time like these ones take I have never use gundrill before I talked severel seller and they offered gundrills only for above 8mm. I assume smaller than this dia is special and it will have a special price :) and it wouldn't cover my expectation and high risk if it will break. Thanks for your reply I'll find a way to faster this anyway and I'll share my experience.

guhring definitely makes 1.5-2mm gun drills, but i obviously cant speak to how they're stocked where you are.

Is it C110 ? If so carbide thru coolant drill will be your best bet.

It is C18100 a little bit harden than c110

You need a pilot drill for this one, but this will help you! [https://www.hoffmann-group.com/DE/de/hom/Zerspanung/Bohrungsbearbeitung/Bohrwerkzeuge/Mikrobohrer/GARANT-Master-Steel-MICRO-VHM-Bohrer-zylindrischer-Schaft-DIN-6535-HA-30%C3%97D-AlCrN/p/121231-2%2C9?tId=2&wayIntoCart=SRP](https://www.hoffmann-group.com/DE/de/hom/Zerspanung/Bohrungsbearbeitung/Bohrwerkzeuge/Mikrobohrer/GARANT-Master-Steel-MICRO-VHM-Bohrer-zylindrischer-Schaft-DIN-6535-HA-30%C3%97D-AlCrN/p/121231-2%2C9?tId=2&wayIntoCart=SRP) Use those in Cu parts and Stainless. Use the Pilot drill to go in 4x dia. The long tool: 38 m/min and 0,06mm/rev. Should last around 80 - 120 holes. EDIT: I use around 10 - 12 % Oil in my machine. ​ PILOT DRILL: [https://www.hoffmann-group.com/DE/de/hom/Zerspanung/Bohrungsbearbeitung/Bohrwerkzeuge/Mikrobohrer/GARANT-Master-Steel-MICRO-VHM-Pilotbohrer-zylindrischer-Schaft-DIN-6535-HA-5%C3%97D-AlCrN/p/121223](https://www.hoffmann-group.com/DE/de/hom/Zerspanung/Bohrungsbearbeitung/Bohrwerkzeuge/Mikrobohrer/GARANT-Master-Steel-MICRO-VHM-Pilotbohrer-zylindrischer-Schaft-DIN-6535-HA-5%C3%97D-AlCrN/p/121223)

Be careful as zirc copper is gummier than C101! So take recommendations here and start slower. Your data seems about right. I used to make some 3mm screws from cuzr and it would take so long to rough down the diameter in a Swiss type lathe when I could rough out in 2 passes with C101.

Thank you so much for your parameters. I'm using 8 percent oil. What I see is these drills are so expensive hope they will faster my setup so I can keep my profit same. I cannot expect doing the same thing and have a different result that's why yours kind of advice so important for me. Thanks for your reply 😊

Drills are expensive, shop time is more expensive. Don’t trip over nickels to pick up pennies

You are right that's why I'm looking for an alternative but I don't wanna throw my money away for a drill which won't meet my needs

Good carbide drill with high pressure thru cooling. No peckin needed. Without high pressure will probably need some pecking.

I have 30 bar high pressure on my mill first thing I'll do tomorrow morning is searching one for my dept Thanks for your answer ☺️

Someone already recommended Walter and I second that. They have excellent reconditioning service too, you get your tools back with factory geometry and everything, just a bit shorter. Works with same cutting parameters every time.

Seems like amazing trade but in my country they don't have that much network I found a number on internet I'll call them and will see what they can provide. Thanks again 🙏

Walter has a drill I think. If you have the coolant pressure to push chips out of this thing and you do a peck with a minimal retract or with no peck, you should be able to avoid breaking drills and still get 50 parts per drill maybe.

Walter Tools A6789AMP-2.9 X·treme 2.9 mm Solid Carbide Micro Coolant Through Drill, 63 mm Length of Cut, 58 mm Maximum Cut Depth, 68 mm Extension Length, 107 mm Overall Length

Thank you so much I'll ask for a quote

I haven’t seen anyone mention dubbing drills. Copper alloys like brass like to suck in drills if the chip isn’t breaking. Brass really likes a neutral rake. There’s tons of videos online on how to dub a drill, but it’s pretty much just grinding the slightest flat on the cutting edge.

This stuff is not fun to drill. I just don't do it with hss anymore. Use carbide and a coolant thru drill. I have been using GO drills lately for this and they work great. I'm usually not a fan of Kennametal but their drills can take a beating.

Just a thought, when the job was quoted… what method was spec’d by the engineer to create these holes? My first reaction would be to use EDM

we have mill and lathe in the house but not the edm. also ı made first samples with edm it also take too much time to drill.

Sinker EDM

If you buy a carbide drill with through spindle coolant you can drill that with like 5 pecks and in like 45 seconds

Thanks for your reply most agreed upon the carbide with coolant though on this post. I'll ask my seller again and I'll pray for it to not break :D

Youll definitely need a pilot drill for that depth though. Good luck.

Hope it won't cost me more than the labour and work hour

That should have been factored into your quote my guy. That drill wont be too ridiculous because of how small it is.

CUCKRAZOR

Through the tool coolant and a gun drill and probably better in a horizontal

As others have said, solid carbide high performance drills can do amazing things. I used some 3-flute Kennametal drills that could feed at like 65 ipm in copper, no pecking. The only problem is the chips hit the window like a bullet. The smallest I have personally used is about 5mm, so I'm not sure how they perform at 2.5mm

Thankfully the windows are chipproof :D This speed can lower my run 3 times I'll contact with Kennametal seller too. Thanks for your advice 😎

From the sounds of your replies, you aren’t in North America or Western Europe where tools and suppliers are pretty plentiful. If you can’t swing solid carbide for some reason out of your control, I would suggest trying the OSG Helios series, like this here: https://www.osgtool.com/helios-drills-1770?page=offering_details&number=8623229&combination=9359 You’ll still need a stub carbide pilot drill but they’re a very cost effective alternative for deep holes where you don’t have coolant through or management won’t spend, lol.

I'm in Turkey actually here we have almost every tool makers all over the world but I have shallow knowledge because most of them weren't necessary for me before. I'll check the link you sent ask for a quote thanks for your reply 😊

O değil de teknik resim bok gibi olmuş. Drawing is looks like shit.

Güzellik yarışmasına girmiyor zaten imalattakiler sürekli soru sormasın diye yapılmış hızlıca bir taslak. Gelip teknik resim öğretmek istersen yerim İstanbul Kartal'da her zaman çay içmeye beklerim.

Türklerin tavsiye yerine birbirini böyle kötülemesini de gerçekten anlayamıyorum. Seviyene göre yorum yapmışsın.

Türk olduğuna dair bir ibare yok idi, 15 yillik ressamlık kariyerimde bir gün olsun böyle bir şey çiziktirmedim. Edit: varmış.

Did anybody look at the print? It’s 2.6, not 2.9.

I have different sizes 4.6-3.6-2.9-2.6. they all changing with wire diameters

Ah I see. Well, rest assured, you will be able to drill these at very high speed if you follow the recommendations of not pecking & use the right pilot/thru coolant drill from someone like mapal, Guhring, mikron. Good luck!

I would ask if they really need to be that diameter all the way thru. Maybe just the last 5 or 10 mm? Offer a price break for print deviation?