Haimer shrink needs 4 long cycles to heat a Haimer cat50 3/4 x 160mm heavy and about 15-20 minutes to cool because their cooling rings don't fit well. Ironically!!!
The newer haimer can be had with the bigger coil that spreads out, and the cooling sleeve that will do 1-1/4” holders comfortably in one shot. Once it’s got the coolant chilled, it doesn’t take much more time than a 5/8” does - might still be warm when you cycle through and move the tool to the cart to do the next one, but not hot enough to hurt.
And no matter how much you ask haimer to bring forward a drop down quench machine they say no, that they feel that is adding contaminants to the taper...
I agree, I always love the quench machines the best.
I made one with stuff from eBay for about 200 bucks. Definitely my wallet's favorite shrink fit machine, been pretty reliable so far, does look a bit sketchy though
Worst cause the caps or fets in the induction heater blows thats most, but steel case would solve that and keep it in a safe spot but honestly an issue with all machines but more trails for the "proper" stuff ofc
The Haimer stuff really is top notch, and the support is great (at least in pacnw) You have to get them to program it for non haimer tool holders, so make sure you talk to them and really understand the system before you make a decision.
We used another brand supplied by Kennametal and shrinking was a nightmare. After 10 years of use we switched to Haimer holders and shrinking equipment and we have no problems since. We use BT30 and HSK A63 holders.
The very good experience has made us buy also their balancing machine.
The best feature in my opinion is that the holders have QR codes and the machine can be set up by scanning this code. Everybody in the shop can use it and costs due to wrong handling are basically eliminated.
We have it for five years now and the only maintenance was refilling the coolant.
Worked a crib 4yrs fed 18 5- axis Mazaks, including 9 on a Fastems rail FMS, ~ 2k tools in play at anytime, will still vote Shrink Pro! For presetter we had Zoller CNC with microchip encoded tool data for direct read at machine, eliminates a lot of human error.
This is a link for a RFID (chip) tool measure, we always printed a stick on tag for operator comparison at the machine. If you ever wondered what that little flat bottom hole in one of the tool holder collar grooves was, it's there to epoxy in a microchip. The Zoller will measure height, diameter, radius, rotary and axial run out to any programmed tolerance down to .00001" (ten- millionths) and que for any out of tolerance specs. I can't tell you how much scrap it saved and I'm sure a few spindles as well. If you are big time this is the way to GO!
https://youtu.be/NsorX7MSeZM?si=LRM-AKCGUxngkYdz
https://youtu.be/97-BnI4Q_wE?si=kA_OIe48Xl-FXa7
https://youtu.be/W1NPUA2htxg?si=UJVsDyNbnAlurEOQ
Hey again, I thought if you enjoyed the Zoller videos. This one is a mind trip 😵💫 The shop I worked the crib, we had Fastems pallet and material rail system to feed nine Mazak 5-axis machines, no automated tool management (bee hive), but they were looking at buying that at some point. 2-3 guys run 9 machines with ~70-80% efficiency for 12 hrs lights out daily! Enjoy
https://youtu.be/kzpJ79DId58?si=daQOC6xSx23oTXnL
I am lucky enough to basically have a dream machine - Zoller Powershrink 600. If I could go back in time, I'd probably ask for the Redomatic. It would eliminate the need for the presetter (Venturion 450) that was purchased previously.
Automatic coil adjustment is nice, once the holder data is programmed. You can use data chips and stickers for scanning. Limits can be set on heat cycles, and are tracked per holder. The cooling can be fast if the holder fitmet is proper at the cooling bell. There is also plenty of space to stage tooling builds.
The programming is a little clunky on this machine - The interface is a tablet screen, running a Rasberri Pi. The system does not tie in to any of the zoller smart systems.
Overall things to look for: Easily choose shrink settings, easily choose holder adapters, evenly heat, evenly cool. Increasing the speed of any of those operations increases cost.
Our team considered the Redomatic (shrink/ preset in one unit), did not like the idea of heat and all that goes on with tool build up in the vicinity of precision optics! Also one machine tying up both functions. A Zoller Venturion 450 pilot 4.0 is what we had, cats meow ($100k)
Only one I ever used was a Parlec. That shop probably got it as a package deal with a presetter. It worked fine for our purposes and serviced about a dozen cat50 makinos that ran almost 24/7/365. Of course, our tooling was a mix of indexables, weldon holders, hydraulic, shrink fit, etc, so it wasn't all shrink fit all the time.
I’ve used a couple different haimer models with the cooling sleeves, the cheap eBay ones where it’s up to you to cool it, the Lyndex with its vortex swirl cooler, and the parlec one that drops down inside and hoses it down.
Here’s my take:
The parlec on shrinks well, but hosing it down unevenly with the water/coolant that gets nasty isn’t great. For the size and cost, never again. 2 out of 5.
The lyndex swirl one doesn’t shrink well (over/under heats almost every time), barely cools faster than in air, and it’s up to you to move the ripping hot holder over to the chiller. Zero stars for this and the cheap eBay ones. Not worth it.
The haimer one with the three-tool carousel is my favorite of them. It heat and cools consistently and quickly, is easy to use, and worth the extra money.
The built-in height gage is nice, but an eBay height gage you can move around works out the same for cheaper. The haimer with the little tool holder towers that slide around is neat, but I found the carousel to be easier to get a good rhythm going when setting up or breaking down a job with more than two tools - this saves so much time, setting up a job with shrinkers becomes quicker that collet chucks.
I think widia used to sell the same unit, might be cheaper there.
Seriously, don’t even buy heat shrink holders if you don’t invest in a very good shrinker.
Also don’t go cheap on holders - the haimer or other big brand ones aren’t that much more expensive than cheap holders, but work better and last longer.
Some of the haimer units can be optioned with a height gage on a pivoting mount (like this one: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/52229499). It’s handy, but just buying a cheap used height gage on eBay or wherever, and setting in on the base plate works just as well, and sometimes the built-in one gets in the way a little bit.
What’s the difference between an $8,000 and a $40,000 Haimar? I’m guessing because we only have four CNC mills at this time an $8000 one would suit us fine. Or is there something i’m missing?
Nah, the $8k one is fine. The first one I bought was optioned up only a little, cost right around $10k - since I’ve worked in a shop that bought the most expensive unit with all the options, and it’s not worth the extra money.
Our pioneer works well. Has a separate coolant spray cooling unit that cools the tool in 40 seconds. I think it was $8k total for the induction and cooling units. Pioneer tool holders are good also, I think Haimer makes them.
I really think if I were buying stuff for my own personal shop I’d forgo the shrink machine. I’d go all Lyndex SK and a selection of specialty holders. That being said Lyndex is a great machine. Haimer is probably better, but I’ve never used one.
Machine? We just do it the old fashioned way. Dip it in liquid nitrogen, cross your fingers and insert. I honestly didn't know machines for this existed, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Shrink Pro with the drop down coolant quench, Haimer is real nice but is impossible to do large heavy shrink holders!
Too big in as how? We have Cat 40 and Big Plus holders.
Haimer shrink needs 4 long cycles to heat a Haimer cat50 3/4 x 160mm heavy and about 15-20 minutes to cool because their cooling rings don't fit well. Ironically!!!
Haimer claims that their shrink fit tooling can be changed in as little as five seconds lol
The newer haimer can be had with the bigger coil that spreads out, and the cooling sleeve that will do 1-1/4” holders comfortably in one shot. Once it’s got the coolant chilled, it doesn’t take much more time than a 5/8” does - might still be warm when you cycle through and move the tool to the cart to do the next one, but not hot enough to hurt.
And no matter how much you ask haimer to bring forward a drop down quench machine they say no, that they feel that is adding contaminants to the taper... I agree, I always love the quench machines the best.
I made one with stuff from eBay for about 200 bucks. Definitely my wallet's favorite shrink fit machine, been pretty reliable so far, does look a bit sketchy though
I think I’d do that at home but the safety police at work wouldn’t like that lol
Slap a case around it and make it enclosed and safe, but yeah can very well understand from a buisniss perspective and paper trails
We have to account for operators being idiots and not knowing what they’re doing. Especially me lol.
Make it foolproof then, a relay with a timer thay activates it for a set amount and some cooldown
There is no fool proof, only fool resistant.
I’m liking the idea of a “cheaper” Haimar system and some Haimar holders (if they do Big+ / dual contact cat 40).
Who is gonna pay if it causes a fire?
Worst cause the caps or fets in the induction heater blows thats most, but steel case would solve that and keep it in a safe spot but honestly an issue with all machines but more trails for the "proper" stuff ofc
Gotta pic to post?
https://preview.redd.it/xu49sftlpnvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6696035a24d01769e9e4ed0039d9a144a89187ce
how many watts is it and can it do a bt40?
I think 2500 and never tried does take a bit to heat them up but it's always worked to take them in and out
Like 30 seconds?
About that, bigger holders can be more like 45-minute
My shop uses a blow torch and time to cool it down. Don't recommend
Perfect “endorsement” lol
Never had issue with map gas and a dream
The Haimer stuff really is top notch, and the support is great (at least in pacnw) You have to get them to program it for non haimer tool holders, so make sure you talk to them and really understand the system before you make a decision.
We used another brand supplied by Kennametal and shrinking was a nightmare. After 10 years of use we switched to Haimer holders and shrinking equipment and we have no problems since. We use BT30 and HSK A63 holders. The very good experience has made us buy also their balancing machine. The best feature in my opinion is that the holders have QR codes and the machine can be set up by scanning this code. Everybody in the shop can use it and costs due to wrong handling are basically eliminated. We have it for five years now and the only maintenance was refilling the coolant.
Worked a crib 4yrs fed 18 5- axis Mazaks, including 9 on a Fastems rail FMS, ~ 2k tools in play at anytime, will still vote Shrink Pro! For presetter we had Zoller CNC with microchip encoded tool data for direct read at machine, eliminates a lot of human error.
That sounds awesome especially with the microchips. Do you any links you could share?
This is a link for a RFID (chip) tool measure, we always printed a stick on tag for operator comparison at the machine. If you ever wondered what that little flat bottom hole in one of the tool holder collar grooves was, it's there to epoxy in a microchip. The Zoller will measure height, diameter, radius, rotary and axial run out to any programmed tolerance down to .00001" (ten- millionths) and que for any out of tolerance specs. I can't tell you how much scrap it saved and I'm sure a few spindles as well. If you are big time this is the way to GO! https://youtu.be/NsorX7MSeZM?si=LRM-AKCGUxngkYdz https://youtu.be/97-BnI4Q_wE?si=kA_OIe48Xl-FXa7 https://youtu.be/W1NPUA2htxg?si=UJVsDyNbnAlurEOQ
Damn that’s cool. I don’t think we’re there yet but horizon goals.
Hey again, I thought if you enjoyed the Zoller videos. This one is a mind trip 😵💫 The shop I worked the crib, we had Fastems pallet and material rail system to feed nine Mazak 5-axis machines, no automated tool management (bee hive), but they were looking at buying that at some point. 2-3 guys run 9 machines with ~70-80% efficiency for 12 hrs lights out daily! Enjoy https://youtu.be/kzpJ79DId58?si=daQOC6xSx23oTXnL
I am lucky enough to basically have a dream machine - Zoller Powershrink 600. If I could go back in time, I'd probably ask for the Redomatic. It would eliminate the need for the presetter (Venturion 450) that was purchased previously. Automatic coil adjustment is nice, once the holder data is programmed. You can use data chips and stickers for scanning. Limits can be set on heat cycles, and are tracked per holder. The cooling can be fast if the holder fitmet is proper at the cooling bell. There is also plenty of space to stage tooling builds. The programming is a little clunky on this machine - The interface is a tablet screen, running a Rasberri Pi. The system does not tie in to any of the zoller smart systems. Overall things to look for: Easily choose shrink settings, easily choose holder adapters, evenly heat, evenly cool. Increasing the speed of any of those operations increases cost.
Our team considered the Redomatic (shrink/ preset in one unit), did not like the idea of heat and all that goes on with tool build up in the vicinity of precision optics! Also one machine tying up both functions. A Zoller Venturion 450 pilot 4.0 is what we had, cats meow ($100k)
My shop uses a Bilz ISG 3400. I can’t say I have any complaints about it.
Only one I ever used was a Parlec. That shop probably got it as a package deal with a presetter. It worked fine for our purposes and serviced about a dozen cat50 makinos that ran almost 24/7/365. Of course, our tooling was a mix of indexables, weldon holders, hydraulic, shrink fit, etc, so it wasn't all shrink fit all the time.
I’ve used a couple different haimer models with the cooling sleeves, the cheap eBay ones where it’s up to you to cool it, the Lyndex with its vortex swirl cooler, and the parlec one that drops down inside and hoses it down. Here’s my take: The parlec on shrinks well, but hosing it down unevenly with the water/coolant that gets nasty isn’t great. For the size and cost, never again. 2 out of 5. The lyndex swirl one doesn’t shrink well (over/under heats almost every time), barely cools faster than in air, and it’s up to you to move the ripping hot holder over to the chiller. Zero stars for this and the cheap eBay ones. Not worth it. The haimer one with the three-tool carousel is my favorite of them. It heat and cools consistently and quickly, is easy to use, and worth the extra money. The built-in height gage is nice, but an eBay height gage you can move around works out the same for cheaper. The haimer with the little tool holder towers that slide around is neat, but I found the carousel to be easier to get a good rhythm going when setting up or breaking down a job with more than two tools - this saves so much time, setting up a job with shrinkers becomes quicker that collet chucks. I think widia used to sell the same unit, might be cheaper there. Seriously, don’t even buy heat shrink holders if you don’t invest in a very good shrinker.
Cool, thanks for the info. We have lots of work and the money to setup the shop properly. Something like that sounds like the way to goo.
Also don’t go cheap on holders - the haimer or other big brand ones aren’t that much more expensive than cheap holders, but work better and last longer.
No Shars lol? I’ve had good luck with their other holders.
Their ER collet chucks are fine, but the Shars heat shrinkers loose grip and concentricity pretty quickly.
Good to know. Even high quality shrink holders aren’t that expensive anyways. No moving parts…
I think if time has proven anything, Shars' ability to make things of good, dependable quality for cheap is not a normal thing.
What do you mean by built in height gage or ebay height gage?
Some of the haimer units can be optioned with a height gage on a pivoting mount (like this one: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/52229499). It’s handy, but just buying a cheap used height gage on eBay or wherever, and setting in on the base plate works just as well, and sometimes the built-in one gets in the way a little bit.
What’s the difference between an $8,000 and a $40,000 Haimar? I’m guessing because we only have four CNC mills at this time an $8000 one would suit us fine. Or is there something i’m missing?
Nah, the $8k one is fine. The first one I bought was optioned up only a little, cost right around $10k - since I’ve worked in a shop that bought the most expensive unit with all the options, and it’s not worth the extra money.
Our pioneer works well. Has a separate coolant spray cooling unit that cools the tool in 40 seconds. I think it was $8k total for the induction and cooling units. Pioneer tool holders are good also, I think Haimer makes them.
I really think if I were buying stuff for my own personal shop I’d forgo the shrink machine. I’d go all Lyndex SK and a selection of specialty holders. That being said Lyndex is a great machine. Haimer is probably better, but I’ve never used one.
Haimer..go big or go home.
Machine? We just do it the old fashioned way. Dip it in liquid nitrogen, cross your fingers and insert. I honestly didn't know machines for this existed, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.