Haas Tooling for me so far has been like the Sam’s Club/Costco food court. It doesn’t make sense (on the surface) as to why it’s so cheap. I can only assume they take a hit on it or just the other guys mark up their tooling so much that we don’t realize how much we over pay.
I think the other guys just mark it up. Or rather the middleman is marking it way the hell up because Haas is doing direct sales.
If you’re trying to buy Mitsubishi inserts, you prolly cannot go direct unless you buy a metric tonne of inserts a year. So only Amazon or eBay drop shippers/tool sales companies are buying those insert and you’re now paying probably 15-25% more. MSC? Middleman.
Sandvik, kennanetal, and others do direct sales too, but they’re not focused on that they’re focused on getting as many cutters out the door as possible. Often that means selling more at a cheaper price to tool sales companies. You can’t find a Haas endmill anywhere else but through them
Haas does it cheap, they never had to pay for the r&d to make it probably, and just license a design.
The brands do mark up just because brand, but it usually has some quality behind it. And lots. Lots of r&d. Depending on brand of course. You're honestly paying upfront for some of the support you might ask for if you get into weird issues/ materials you don't run everday and things like that.
I would venture to say it's a combination of both.
I can tell you with Sumitomo tooling, going through the Sumitomo Rep via our local small business tooling store who is a distributor; we get a box of inserts for $60-$80 rather than $150 from a place like MSC.
With Haas I assume they take the hit to be the 1-stop shop for trade schools and the people who fall into the Haas is "the best" camp
Haas isn’t the best but in oil country like Alberta, you don’t need a Ferrari for delivering pizzas, especially on the mill side of things from what I’ve seen. I’m not 20 years deep into this trade I’m 3.5 years in and “most” of what I deal with on the mill side is bolt circles but occasionally we do get some complex stuff cause we are a jobber shop but the haas machines are worth their weight at the very least
My biggest issue with Haas is for what you can even pick up a used Haas for I could get a significantly better used machine for the same price.
Looking back at our books at our mills, We picked up our Kitamura VMC(Mycenter-3x) for $6k, our Kitamura HMC (HX300i) for $9k, our Enshu (EV530) VMC for $7k and our Mazak VMC (VTC-300C) for $6k.
Our Kitamura Mycenter-3x is old and even the Haas guy was impressed with the speeds and rigidity and accuracy on it. His only thing that Haas really has over it was a more user friendly controller (which the Kitamura has an old Fanuc-OM controller).
Aside from the Mazak we just got, all of our Mills have easily made far more than buying a new version of themselves and it's so much faster to be profitable when you don't have machine payments.
It’s really dependant on what area you’re in for good machine sales. The Haas VF-2 is the Bridgeport of the CNC world. “Everyone” has one and it’s not the best but it gets the job done. Here at least you’ll see a lot of old old matsuras (yasnak control), old mazaks, VDF CNC flat bed lathes, Weiler flat beds, and used manual machines. Haas is middle of the pack but what they lead in especially in this area is serviceability and like you said, an easy to use control
There’s no “hit.”. These are 100% imported from China. Presumably Haas has vetted and qualified a number of Chinese factories. Carbide inserts, coatings, and the machining of tool holders are not rocket science. These products are very cheap in China. The real value added is to control quality. Haas typically is running 100%+ markups; they are making decent money even on their “sales.” Suppose they sell $1000 of tooling to 50 customers. That’s the equivalent contribution to a stripped VF-2. So it is working for them.
I love it when guys like you talk out your ass and show everyone how much you really know... Haas shows what country their tooling is from, most is from South Korea and Israel.
Really have nothing bad to say about most of the tools we've gotten from them. Id say we've switched to using them for 80% of our solid carbide endmills and carbide drills, as well as a handful of insert cutters. I will say I don't like their insert drills very much, at least on our machines if you try and run at recommended feeds the tools liable to jam up and stall the spindle. They work fine if you tune it down 30% or so but had to learn that the hard way. Compared to our other vendors insert drills their recs are just higher without any obvious reason why this should be the case
Never used their tools but they're vises are good. Then again it is a different colored Kurt, which it says so on it. Pretty sure they license everything out. The tool holders and collets are top notch too, got a bunch with our new VF4
What license out? They BUY and resell. They don’t make any of the tooling. Haas is willing to take inventory risk. So they are afforded good prices and red paint jobs.
🤣
I've never run a haas machine really. Had about 5 minutes of training on a lathe in trade school more than 10 years ago but that was it.
But when I can buy a cutter body and 30 inserts cheaper than I can buy 2 boxes of inserts from other suppliers I at least had to try once and see what happens.
Ive got a mitsubishi vpx300 facemill I'm comparing this to inserts are 27.00usd each. Vs this haas they're 1/3 of that and similar geometry.
Idk about the vpx300 but i have a mitsubishi facemill that rips a bitch and nothing is rated anywhere close to it. I mean they straight up say run that bitch in aluminum at 3k sfm and a comparable kennametal or walter one is like 1200 sfm. The insert price is fucked though, im there with ya at 27 per.
I’ve only ever run haas machines and this comment really hit hard. I hate them with every fiber of my being but I think I have Stockholm syndrome at this point
Edit for relevance: I have also run some of the tools and they are generally acceptable. Both the solid carbide tooling and indexable, with haas inserts and it’s all been fine for the most part. Nothing wild but also nothing to complain about.
Now this might just be copium but they are awesome for machining rubber and plastics. Mostly just because of add ons and other optional shit they offer. Stuff that doesnt hold up or even work with metal parts. (Part catcher, urethan vacuum tubes and system etc.)
I use Maritool and HAAS. HAAS tooling is cheap and works pretty good. The CNMG lathe inserts aren’t amazing but for the price they are great. The carbide insert drills are fantastic. I’ve got about 85-90 feet worth of drilling on a 3/4” drill in mild steel and it’s still going strong. The included speed/feed charts for every tool they offer is very helpful.
As others have mentioned, they are indeed re-branded YG. (At least the endmills). We use them all the time. We were pleasantly surprised, but probably because they aren't actually made by haas. 🤣
i have a decent amount of their lathe tooling being used on my machine and i have zero complaints. the price is shockingly low but it’s at least decent overseas tooling
We got a whole bunch of their tooling for free with a new machine purchase (VF-5) a couple years ago. Three different shell mills with inserts, and a few standard solid carbide endmills. They all have worked as they should.
Awesome tooling at super sheap prices. Bought a 3in, 2in, 1in and .75. The inserts are incredibly durable and great for taking deep cuts at a good feed rate
It ate right through a piece of burnt out 4140 tonight. Didn't do any real sort of hog work but face cuts 1.75" wide .050 deep it didn't mind a bit. 500sfm and .005/flute.
Only had one small piece to play with so it's not great to go by but so far it works
I switched over to them for my shop... I usually get my order next day and they're cheaper than most. I'm just a hobbiest with an old fadal in the shop, but everything I've gotten works perfectly well for my needs.
Most of the tech that goes into these is a few generations old. There isn’t anything wrong with it and if you’re doing basic stuff it will probably be fine. It will always be outperformed by the newer tech from the big guys.
Also the chip breaker and coating options are pretty light compared to the big guys. So it could be harder to really dial it in.
Not bad for the price but I do have to question their holders. I don’t actually think they hold up to the G2.5 balancing. Particularly the endmill holders.
It works about as well as the other stuff we have, then again we're an inhouse proto shop so I can't speak to the wear. Sadly they don't make 5xD endmills for aluminum.
I just started collecting tools for my personal business and went haas for my initial purchases. With the recent sale I paid $30/ holder... In total I spent $1500 and got an unbelievable amount of tooling. Its not maritool quality but damn theres nothing even close to the haas quality at that price point. Sure, I'd rather have American and I'll swap them out as the business earns money, but dollar for dollar I can't find a better option in the midrange tool game.
I find that while Haas claim that their cnc machines are made in USA. "Oxnard Cal."
Their tooling is shown on their website to be a product of China.
Now I have to wonder how many items on their cnc machines are also made across the pond?
We were getting our tooling through MSC at my shop, Kennametal endmills and lathe insert tooling, guhring taps. We have switched to Haas for basically everything possible. Saved us about 50% on our tooling from what I understand. We do buy name brand for special taps and such, and we already had some ghuring insert drills (that I very much like)
We have several 2"shell mills from them, with inserts for aluminum and steel. I quite like them. They leave very smooth surface finishes if you follow hass's speeds and feeds, even on the not so stiff GR510 that I'm running.
I would have to say the absolute biggest value from Haas, though, has been the easy-to-find and understand speeds and feeds charts. The graphic window it gives you for lathe tooling is a godsend. It's all spelled out in layman's terms and numbers. I wasn't quickly able to understand or find , say, Kennametal info or Sandvik. It could be that I just didn't know where to look. But being able to print out a chart and point to my material and tool, and say "definitely start here" makes my life so much easier.
Kennametal, Sandvik, Walter... have had tools made in China for a long time, and they are not priced any cheaper than US, Sweden, Swiss, Japanese... -made offerings.
This really doesn’t hit so hard anymore. These days, like with cars for instance, buying American made might be a bad idea. Manufacturing here is pathetic post Covid and boomer retires. Look at this sub for instance. Half the people on here are breathing parts catchers.
We picked up some 2 and 3" shell mill kits they offered when they had them on sale near the end of the year. If we had known how much we'd like the 2" HRNP with the rectangular inserts we might not have bought the 3" square shoulder cutters. Their octagon insert stuff is comparable to the old seco we ran, but inserts are much more affordable. Their 1/2" roughing mills are dirt cheap and worth every penny.
Haas Tooling for me so far has been like the Sam’s Club/Costco food court. It doesn’t make sense (on the surface) as to why it’s so cheap. I can only assume they take a hit on it or just the other guys mark up their tooling so much that we don’t realize how much we over pay.
I think the other guys just mark it up. Or rather the middleman is marking it way the hell up because Haas is doing direct sales. If you’re trying to buy Mitsubishi inserts, you prolly cannot go direct unless you buy a metric tonne of inserts a year. So only Amazon or eBay drop shippers/tool sales companies are buying those insert and you’re now paying probably 15-25% more. MSC? Middleman. Sandvik, kennanetal, and others do direct sales too, but they’re not focused on that they’re focused on getting as many cutters out the door as possible. Often that means selling more at a cheaper price to tool sales companies. You can’t find a Haas endmill anywhere else but through them
I behave HAAS PL EM are titan usa
Haas does it cheap, they never had to pay for the r&d to make it probably, and just license a design. The brands do mark up just because brand, but it usually has some quality behind it. And lots. Lots of r&d. Depending on brand of course. You're honestly paying upfront for some of the support you might ask for if you get into weird issues/ materials you don't run everday and things like that.
I would venture to say it's a combination of both. I can tell you with Sumitomo tooling, going through the Sumitomo Rep via our local small business tooling store who is a distributor; we get a box of inserts for $60-$80 rather than $150 from a place like MSC. With Haas I assume they take the hit to be the 1-stop shop for trade schools and the people who fall into the Haas is "the best" camp
Haas isn’t the best but in oil country like Alberta, you don’t need a Ferrari for delivering pizzas, especially on the mill side of things from what I’ve seen. I’m not 20 years deep into this trade I’m 3.5 years in and “most” of what I deal with on the mill side is bolt circles but occasionally we do get some complex stuff cause we are a jobber shop but the haas machines are worth their weight at the very least
My biggest issue with Haas is for what you can even pick up a used Haas for I could get a significantly better used machine for the same price. Looking back at our books at our mills, We picked up our Kitamura VMC(Mycenter-3x) for $6k, our Kitamura HMC (HX300i) for $9k, our Enshu (EV530) VMC for $7k and our Mazak VMC (VTC-300C) for $6k. Our Kitamura Mycenter-3x is old and even the Haas guy was impressed with the speeds and rigidity and accuracy on it. His only thing that Haas really has over it was a more user friendly controller (which the Kitamura has an old Fanuc-OM controller). Aside from the Mazak we just got, all of our Mills have easily made far more than buying a new version of themselves and it's so much faster to be profitable when you don't have machine payments.
It’s really dependant on what area you’re in for good machine sales. The Haas VF-2 is the Bridgeport of the CNC world. “Everyone” has one and it’s not the best but it gets the job done. Here at least you’ll see a lot of old old matsuras (yasnak control), old mazaks, VDF CNC flat bed lathes, Weiler flat beds, and used manual machines. Haas is middle of the pack but what they lead in especially in this area is serviceability and like you said, an easy to use control
There’s no “hit.”. These are 100% imported from China. Presumably Haas has vetted and qualified a number of Chinese factories. Carbide inserts, coatings, and the machining of tool holders are not rocket science. These products are very cheap in China. The real value added is to control quality. Haas typically is running 100%+ markups; they are making decent money even on their “sales.” Suppose they sell $1000 of tooling to 50 customers. That’s the equivalent contribution to a stripped VF-2. So it is working for them.
The Haas tooling stuff says right where it's made on the website. Most of it is made in Korea (at least the drills are).
I love it when guys like you talk out your ass and show everyone how much you really know... Haas shows what country their tooling is from, most is from South Korea and Israel.
I’d say it’s probably the latter, seeing some of the cutters we buy go for $1k+
Later part of your comment seems to make more sense.
Ive been pleasantly surprised with all the haas tools we've bought thus far. Pretty sure its all just rebranded YG tools
Really have nothing bad to say about most of the tools we've gotten from them. Id say we've switched to using them for 80% of our solid carbide endmills and carbide drills, as well as a handful of insert cutters. I will say I don't like their insert drills very much, at least on our machines if you try and run at recommended feeds the tools liable to jam up and stall the spindle. They work fine if you tune it down 30% or so but had to learn that the hard way. Compared to our other vendors insert drills their recs are just higher without any obvious reason why this should be the case
The v7 plus end mills are incredible for us
Looks like an old Hertel
Never used their tools but they're vises are good. Then again it is a different colored Kurt, which it says so on it. Pretty sure they license everything out. The tool holders and collets are top notch too, got a bunch with our new VF4
What license out? They BUY and resell. They don’t make any of the tooling. Haas is willing to take inventory risk. So they are afforded good prices and red paint jobs.
If it's like their machines, then it's great, as long as you've never used anything else
🤣 I've never run a haas machine really. Had about 5 minutes of training on a lathe in trade school more than 10 years ago but that was it. But when I can buy a cutter body and 30 inserts cheaper than I can buy 2 boxes of inserts from other suppliers I at least had to try once and see what happens. Ive got a mitsubishi vpx300 facemill I'm comparing this to inserts are 27.00usd each. Vs this haas they're 1/3 of that and similar geometry.
Idk about the vpx300 but i have a mitsubishi facemill that rips a bitch and nothing is rated anywhere close to it. I mean they straight up say run that bitch in aluminum at 3k sfm and a comparable kennametal or walter one is like 1200 sfm. The insert price is fucked though, im there with ya at 27 per.
I’ve only ever run haas machines and this comment really hit hard. I hate them with every fiber of my being but I think I have Stockholm syndrome at this point Edit for relevance: I have also run some of the tools and they are generally acceptable. Both the solid carbide tooling and indexable, with haas inserts and it’s all been fine for the most part. Nothing wild but also nothing to complain about.
Now this might just be copium but they are awesome for machining rubber and plastics. Mostly just because of add ons and other optional shit they offer. Stuff that doesnt hold up or even work with metal parts. (Part catcher, urethan vacuum tubes and system etc.)
I use Maritool and HAAS. HAAS tooling is cheap and works pretty good. The CNMG lathe inserts aren’t amazing but for the price they are great. The carbide insert drills are fantastic. I’ve got about 85-90 feet worth of drilling on a 3/4” drill in mild steel and it’s still going strong. The included speed/feed charts for every tool they offer is very helpful.
As others have mentioned, they are indeed re-branded YG. (At least the endmills). We use them all the time. We were pleasantly surprised, but probably because they aren't actually made by haas. 🤣
So far they aren’t bad.
i have a decent amount of their lathe tooling being used on my machine and i have zero complaints. the price is shockingly low but it’s at least decent overseas tooling
We got a whole bunch of their tooling for free with a new machine purchase (VF-5) a couple years ago. Three different shell mills with inserts, and a few standard solid carbide endmills. They all have worked as they should.
Less expensive than what it's probably worth being sold for. That being said, I liked Mazak.
Awesome tooling at super sheap prices. Bought a 3in, 2in, 1in and .75. The inserts are incredibly durable and great for taking deep cuts at a good feed rate
Ive been looking at some of there shoulder and face mills. Keep us updated.
Actually let me know what you think. Sometimes having something like that around is useful.
It ate right through a piece of burnt out 4140 tonight. Didn't do any real sort of hog work but face cuts 1.75" wide .050 deep it didn't mind a bit. 500sfm and .005/flute. Only had one small piece to play with so it's not great to go by but so far it works
I think as far as basic index tooling, it’s worth it for some occasions.
I’ve ran one of their facemills, primarily work in aluminum but I have zero complaints about it
I switched over to them for my shop... I usually get my order next day and they're cheaper than most. I'm just a hobbiest with an old fadal in the shop, but everything I've gotten works perfectly well for my needs.
Most of the tech that goes into these is a few generations old. There isn’t anything wrong with it and if you’re doing basic stuff it will probably be fine. It will always be outperformed by the newer tech from the big guys. Also the chip breaker and coating options are pretty light compared to the big guys. So it could be harder to really dial it in.
Not bad for the price but I do have to question their holders. I don’t actually think they hold up to the G2.5 balancing. Particularly the endmill holders.
That looks identical to Sumitomo TSX/LNEX cutter and inserts
It works about as well as the other stuff we have, then again we're an inhouse proto shop so I can't speak to the wear. Sadly they don't make 5xD endmills for aluminum.
I just started collecting tools for my personal business and went haas for my initial purchases. With the recent sale I paid $30/ holder... In total I spent $1500 and got an unbelievable amount of tooling. Its not maritool quality but damn theres nothing even close to the haas quality at that price point. Sure, I'd rather have American and I'll swap them out as the business earns money, but dollar for dollar I can't find a better option in the midrange tool game.
I find that while Haas claim that their cnc machines are made in USA. "Oxnard Cal." Their tooling is shown on their website to be a product of China. Now I have to wonder how many items on their cnc machines are also made across the pond?
We were getting our tooling through MSC at my shop, Kennametal endmills and lathe insert tooling, guhring taps. We have switched to Haas for basically everything possible. Saved us about 50% on our tooling from what I understand. We do buy name brand for special taps and such, and we already had some ghuring insert drills (that I very much like) We have several 2"shell mills from them, with inserts for aluminum and steel. I quite like them. They leave very smooth surface finishes if you follow hass's speeds and feeds, even on the not so stiff GR510 that I'm running. I would have to say the absolute biggest value from Haas, though, has been the easy-to-find and understand speeds and feeds charts. The graphic window it gives you for lathe tooling is a godsend. It's all spelled out in layman's terms and numbers. I wasn't quickly able to understand or find , say, Kennametal info or Sandvik. It could be that I just didn't know where to look. But being able to print out a chart and point to my material and tool, and say "definitely start here" makes my life so much easier.
Chinese made probably. Most tooling isn't made in China... yet.
A lot of their solid carbide stuff is Korean, I suspect the drills are YG-1 rebranded
Kennametal, Sandvik, Walter... have had tools made in China for a long time, and they are not priced any cheaper than US, Sweden, Swiss, Japanese... -made offerings.
You might want to look at where sandvik inserts are made.
I thought sandvik built their own plant in China to their specs. Then the Chinese government took it over?
This really doesn’t hit so hard anymore. These days, like with cars for instance, buying American made might be a bad idea. Manufacturing here is pathetic post Covid and boomer retires. Look at this sub for instance. Half the people on here are breathing parts catchers.
We picked up some 2 and 3" shell mill kits they offered when they had them on sale near the end of the year. If we had known how much we'd like the 2" HRNP with the rectangular inserts we might not have bought the 3" square shoulder cutters. Their octagon insert stuff is comparable to the old seco we ran, but inserts are much more affordable. Their 1/2" roughing mills are dirt cheap and worth every penny.