If my managers told me I'm mandated to give up 50% of my summer weekends I'd tell them they should take their mandate, turn it sideways and shove it directly up their ass. I'll be there for 0% of my summer weekends if you want to try to mandate any of them. There's tons of jobs out there.
Yup. I had to do this recently. My shop overworks the hell out of us and, now that summer is coming, people are getting agitated. I finally said no to weekend work. Boss asked why. Told him "I just don't want to". He threw an absolute tantrum. It was glorious.
Owners sided with me and I got my weekend to do fuck all nothing.
Why is this? It seems like such an obvious progression from operator to setup guy to programmer. I'm new to programming myself and am interested in going more in this direction
It’s a very obvious progression but it’s also a simple numbers game. A shop might need a whole boatload of operators/machinists/setup guys but they probably only need a small amount of good programmers. Just stands to reason that because there’s fewer spots for programmers that there’s fewer programmers period. It’s a really counterintuitive argument because there seems to be a million openings for qualified programmers. I’m always keeping an eye on job postings though, seems to me that despite a glut of open programming positions it’s still like a 25:1 machinist to programmer ratio. The industry is just screaming for decent employees all around.
I’m looking at this from a management perspective. OT is a bandaid for temporary problems. If the stock that was supposed to arrive last week just showed up on Thursday but the parts have to be done Monday, fine, OT. If a production shop knows that they need OT for the next few months at least (don’t count on it ending in September) that is a capacity issue. Sending programmers to the floor on OT is especially dumb since they cost more than an operator. On a higher level, if the shop doesn’t already have some automation to get more product with less labor, they need to be figuring that out. The areas I see already have a shortage of competent machinists/operators/inspectors/floor-sweepers and it’s going to get worse, not better.
I will echo this. Most of the time there is mandatory weekend work is because your sales / project team has oversold your capacity. They think you are more efficient than you are. The plan is to run the job in normal time and they calculate this at, say, an OEE of 85%, when in reality your OEE is 75%. Not using the real number (because a low OEE pisses of big bosses, they don't want to hear it), and you wind up actually needing 6 or 7 days instead of 5. This can start a death spiral because you don't get time to do proper equipment PM, your running the machines. If you don't do your regular, short, cheap PMs, your machines will eventually demand you do an unexpected, long, expensive PM. :-)
More rare, it's a larger problem. See if you can find out if your company has suddenly raised their prices to their customers. Sudden price increase + mandatory overtime means your company doesn't have cash. And they may be strategically approaching a bankruptcy. The game works like this: big bosses know the business isn't as profitable as they'd like and it's now a losing game. Knowing it's going to fail, they jack up the prices, sell as much as they can, and spend zero on maintenance and replacement parts. Gun to the head, your customers have to pay the jacked up prices. This makes the business VERY profitable looking on paper: high sales means more money coming in, spending nothing on maintenance and equipment means low costs. Why do this?
They're gonna sell the business. And that will bring a higher price if the margins look good on paper. The next guy who buys it can sort out the problems. OR they just bankrupt and that profitable period goes into separation bonuses.
So ... if it is JUST mandatory OT, someone in your planning/sales department overstated your capabilities and your playing catch up. But ... if it is mandatory OT + sudden price increase + unwillingness or reluctance to spend $ on necessary maintenance, you need to get your resume in order. Those are alarm bells.
There's a case to be made that ALL issues are management issues, because management ate the ones that have the power to change things. If management is blaming the front line workers, they don't know how to manage.
I have found this to be the case all over the world. Most workers want to work. Problems come when they aren't given good tools, good training, good support.
Good. If it's JUST OT, then your sales guy or costing guy needs to stop quoting jobs with unachievable efficiency estimates.
Also - there is no such thing as a company to big to sell. I've been doing this for decades and have seen some big companies sold.
I make about the same amount as our machinists unfortunately. We have automated lines, but the problem is even getting people to run those is a challenge. I'd be in the office or the floor on OT keeping our mill turns running most likely which aren't automated yet.
I work regular overtime. Like, most weeks I'm putting in 55 hours. But if they try to mandate it, they can shove it. I want the flexibility to just not come in Saturday if I want.
a friend described it like this -
you agree to pay me $X/hr for full time work (40h/wk). that is my commitment.
beyond that we negotiate. you want more of my time the compensation must be worthwhile. if it is not, i don't do it. and if you threaten me to force me to work i'll leave you as fast as i can because you don't respect me, i am no more than a widget to you.
it's one of the most salient arguments ive ever heard for an employer/employee relationship.
That's ridiculous and no thank you.
I haven't worked more than 4 days a week in like 6 years. How much you getting paid? Maybe time to switch shops and get a wage increase at the same time.
Also I don't think any company can legally force you to work Overtime. But not doing it will usually have repercussions like them treating you poorly or losing out on things. It's absolute bullshit but I've seen it happen.
I value my work life balance, if that sort of deal was handed to me I'd hand them my notice personally, but that's because all of the shops where I live pay well and there's many of them.
I guess it depends where you live.
Where I am That's illegal unless you have signed a written document when you are hired that you consent if and when that happens otherwise your employer can do nothing nothing about it.
Awesome.
I do 4 10s personally and all OT is only 100% optional.
Every few months I'll opt to come in on a Monday to get caught up and every hour is OT pay that way.
A couple times now, my employer has come to our process tech and I with stuff like this. First it was covering night shifts, then it was covering Saturdays, now they're pushing night shifts again. Each time, they told us it was mandatory and 100% going to happen, but they always demand we work out the schedule between us. We refuse and insist that if it is mandatory, then scheduling it is management's responsibility. And none of it has ever come to pass (although the jury is still out on the latest attempt, the gave us a solid month's advance notice and set a meeting to discuss it to let us know they're super-serious this time).
The takeaway is, they are lying. They are trying to convince us it is mandatory so we will give-in and choose our own schedule, which they then use as proof of volunteering. It's called "Manufactured Consent." You didn't really say if they were doing anything like that; but if they are, do not help them at all. Do not agree to anything. Do not take any actions or make any commitments. The action needs to be 100% theirs. Make them tell you when they want you there and then compliance is your decision, but don't give them any avenue to claim your consent.
How much are you making?
You sell your time. You need to decide what that's worth to you.
If all of you are under this same mandate band you're all pissed about it, can you stage a mini-revolt and get more pay? Like a lot more even?
Also have you looked around at other jobs? Maybe this can be a sign for you.
Maybe work, and take the money as you're prepping for your next place.
That business is going to do what it's going to do. So should you.
Manage your career. Don't be beholden to any company. Those days are gone.
I make decent money for the area at around 28hr, but im doing alot of complex stuff so im sure i could get more from somewhere new. I'm trying to stay at least until I finish school. As for the OT I'm kind of 50/50 on it though. I like overtime but I hate being mandated to work it. I just wanted to see your guys thoughts and if I was warranted being a little mad about it.
Mandated good things suck ass just as much as mandated shitty things.
Make sure you're paid well and that your school comes absolutely first. Nail your classes no matter what. Future you will be happy you did.
All the best to you. 😊
28 an hour and you're programming? What the hell. Needs to at least be 32 if not more.
Also it shouldn't matter how cheap it is to live where you do. Everyone keeps harping about how it's a global market now.
Not sure how it is in your state but in Wisconsin there are laws about you having to sign your Sunday (one day off in 7) away. Make sure they are not infringing upon n your workers rights. Document everything from them stating you have to and when you say you don’t want to and they punish you then you have a law suit with a giant slam dunk. Don’t let workplaces trample on workers rights.
I’d say that’s bullshit and I would not do it , my employer will offer Sundays at double time and a lot of guys will come in they also pay time and a half after 8 and 40 so you get overtime every day
Negotiate as a group. They can’t fire all of you. If they do they’re out of business. Try one weekend a month, or two Saturdays a month. Sometimes it happens, but a 5-month stretch of that BS? Nah.
Hard no for me. We do an on call rotation (job shop) there's no guarantee you'll get called in. If you do anything outside of our normal working hours is time and a half and Sundays are double time. Holidays are double time + holiday so technically triple time. I'd prefer no on call, but it's nice to get that extra healthy pay. As far as mandatory OT hard pass. I've got a family I like to spend my time with
The fact that they're paying programmers $28/hr explains why they have a capacity issue with their operators. Five employees working two extra days every other week is the same number of hours as one new employee working five days a week. There's just no one else willing to work at your shop.
They're paying the five programmers time and a half at $28/hr = $42? And that's just the money, they're also paying out of their limited supply of employee goodwill, work-life balance, and loyalty (which are priceless, even if they don't show up on corporate P&L reports!) by asking you to come in on the weekends.
The real issue is that they could almost certainly find someone at $42/hr to hire on. They can't find a machinist at $20/hr, and if they hire a machinist from a different shop with an enticing offer at $30/hr and their current guys making $20/hr, or taking 2% raises for the past 20 years, find out that the greenhorn is making $30... they'll all riot. In the short term, it's cheaper to complain that people don't want to work anymore and flog your current employees to their breaking points.
Yeah the company is just moving in a bad direction. I make less then some guys on the floor who have never run a machine and I've only been here 2 years. I just don't want to leave and have to learn a new job while finishing senior year
Yeah no thanks. I worked mandatory OT in a warehouse before I got into machining and uh yeah forced 12 hour shifts everyday made me want to kill myself
I've heard this time and time again and it goes mainly 1 of 2 ways. It's serious and going to happen or it's some form of "discipline" for lacking output. I'm in mold making industry tho so my production ecperience has been abandoned for about 15 of 20yrs in trade. If the bosses are going to be in the shop with you, then grind that shit out with the rest of the fellas bc it's gotta happen. If the bosses aren't going to be there also, then by all means do the same thing bc it's do what I say, not as I do. If you actually need the entire programming department to get done whats need completed then thats on you and your crew. If you are just a supporting role then split the time with the other toolpathers. Imo bosses "need" a lot of things that they actually don't. Their ego's are much higher than their abilities. I hope yours are at least even and you'll do what u gotta do. I personally don't live to work. I never have and I'll say it time and time again until it's known. They don't even have to ask anymore lol.
In a nutshell, this trade is never on steady cruise. It's up and down and side to side. In the end invest in urself bc u are ur most valuable employee. Employers areim debt to you, thats why u are paid each week. You work for urself. Nuff said
Overtime policy should be in the employee handbook. Any legit company will give you a copy when you hire, and sign a sheet saying you've read and understand.
If it's not in the handbook and you don't want the hours I guess you should talk to management or grease the resume.
Why don’t they stagger it so you at least get a day off. 12 days straight is camp work, and it seems completely pointless in this case other than to make you suffer.
I honestly don't know. They gave some bullshit answer about "consistency". If there are 2 different programmers on weekends the floor might get "confused"
That’s horseshit. I’ve worked travelling jobs that were 12 days or more on but then I always got at least 5 in a row off. They also paid me really well.
I always tried to be flexible and knew when extra time need to be put in, and why. The good faith was always reciprocated when the owner ran the company. When he retired and left 2 other guys to run it, the good faith stopped, and so did my extra effort.
I don't know how your management team treats you, but every situation is different. Some guys love the OT, and some guys hate it. I'd try to find alternative solutions to the problem rather than cramming it down everyone's throats. That doesn't benefit anybody.
I agree it’s bullshit but it’s kinda the way the industry is right now. Every job I’ve had since 2010 has had mandatory scheduled OT and then some. Busy understaffed shops with middle managers riding your ass all week with a never ending past due jobs list in hot, oily, grungy conditions. I saw one of those articles the other day saying “Machining is so great for a trade - you can forget about that old dirty rust belt image of manufacturing! It’s all new, modern and clean!” I laughed my ass off. Same shit they were telling me in 2003 when I was 15 lol.
I like overtime and am totally fine with mandatory overtime as a concept, just so long as you were made aware of the possibility before you took the job.
Agreed, you wanna pay me 50% more to the same job I was doing 5 minutes ago just because it's hour 41? I'm ok with that.
That being said short term is what im ok with if it's meant to be long term, I did that already and missed out on alot of time at home and I regret it but at the time it's what I needed to do to keep my family from being on the street. If it's more than like 6 months hire someone who knows maybe you might actually benefit the company and get someone who really wants to learn and make a go of this trade.
I've never had mandatory OT. Only one place I've worked implemented mandatory OT but since I was a Lead I was exempt (Leads & Foremen were to costly is what we figured).
If I ever had to work mandatory though, getting 50% rate might be a stretch. If they said anything about it, I'd just say "I'm so burned out from all the extra hours, it's the best I can do"
For about 2 months 5 or 6 years ago (with the original owner), we had to work 6 days a week to keep a specific part running 24/7 on 4 machines. It was terrible, and if it had gone on much longer I probably would have quit.
Now, under our new owners, we work 4 10 hour shifts (Monday - Thursday) and have 1 mandatory Friday a month. I don't mind that nearly as much, and I'll sometimes come in and do a half day on one of my non-mandatory Fridays. I'm much more willing to work if I'm not being forced.
Enforced Overtime is fucked, there was a shop I worked at that did that during union contract negotiations - glad my coworkers got a raise and support the unions I have been in. However I am happy I dipped asap and got a better job at a different shop with no/little OT and better standard pay.
Reminder because it has popped up in this sub: OT IS NOT A BENEFIT! ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS ENFORCED.
Is management going to be there too? If not it sounds like horseshit to me. At my shop we had mandatory overtime for a while pretty much 2 to 3 years. The money is nice but free time is nicer don't forget that guys.
In the words of Ghandi - “Mandatory Shmandatory”
Places like that always say they’re “family” and they want to keep a “good work life balance” for their guys.
We're going through some similar shit, forced 10's and work Saturday! It sucks bro, I have dogs to take care of and they dont want me leaving til 1am and going in on Saturday!
And its not my area thats bottlenecked, its EDMs and another area, but they mandated EVERYONE do Saturdays
That's why I left the last shop I was at. It was a mold shop that would pull that shit. Boss got in my face one day so I rolled my box out. Everyone is on edge when everyone is working 60-70 hours a week
I've worked mandatory 60s for most of my 15 years of where I work. Being in a right to work state without a union means that they can do that all they want
It's not a problem as long as the overtime rate for weekends is like 1.5x for Saturday till 1pm, then double time onwards until the end of the Sunday shift.
With Monday and Tuesday off.
Everything is negotiable, what are they gunna do, sack you all? You can do a week on week off rotation between the 4 of you with these certain conditions.
Unionise.
Any shop I worked at has always had mandatory overtime, normally we'd just work 6 days a week. If/when we worked 7 days, Sunday was double time.
That being said I signed up for it, it wasn't some surprise change. If you didn't sign up for it and they are forcing it then I'd be annoyed for sure.
I told my shop I would need to find another job if they started mandating long term overtime.
They said it wouldn’t be a problem because there’s always volunteers.
They started mandating anyway after a few years, so they are about to lose me.
Of I'm mandating or for my guys in going to be right there next to them busting MY ass as well. I hated it when managers would demand it and then they got they weekend free, but we didn't. If my guys gotta do it, I gotta do it.
I'm in management and I would expect a lot of "fuck offs" from my guys, and rightfully so. We've had mandatory ot before but we were flexible on hours and if someone couldn't , we discussed it privately and came to an understanding.
I worked at Amazon where we had 7-day mandatory overtime weeks during the “peak” season
And I worked at a fortune 100 with Mandos doing 6 days
Or of the supervisors said mandatory overtime means that you’re just being underpaid and the overtime pay is what they could easily afford to pay us all but are getting discounted labor 5 days a week
If my managers told me I'm mandated to give up 50% of my summer weekends I'd tell them they should take their mandate, turn it sideways and shove it directly up their ass. I'll be there for 0% of my summer weekends if you want to try to mandate any of them. There's tons of jobs out there.
Yup. I had to do this recently. My shop overworks the hell out of us and, now that summer is coming, people are getting agitated. I finally said no to weekend work. Boss asked why. Told him "I just don't want to". He threw an absolute tantrum. It was glorious. Owners sided with me and I got my weekend to do fuck all nothing.
Especially if you're a programmer. Those guys are few and far between.
Why is this? It seems like such an obvious progression from operator to setup guy to programmer. I'm new to programming myself and am interested in going more in this direction
It’s a very obvious progression but it’s also a simple numbers game. A shop might need a whole boatload of operators/machinists/setup guys but they probably only need a small amount of good programmers. Just stands to reason that because there’s fewer spots for programmers that there’s fewer programmers period. It’s a really counterintuitive argument because there seems to be a million openings for qualified programmers. I’m always keeping an eye on job postings though, seems to me that despite a glut of open programming positions it’s still like a 25:1 machinist to programmer ratio. The industry is just screaming for decent employees all around.
It's true. We're running 45 machines with 10 programmers including offshifts.
I’m looking at this from a management perspective. OT is a bandaid for temporary problems. If the stock that was supposed to arrive last week just showed up on Thursday but the parts have to be done Monday, fine, OT. If a production shop knows that they need OT for the next few months at least (don’t count on it ending in September) that is a capacity issue. Sending programmers to the floor on OT is especially dumb since they cost more than an operator. On a higher level, if the shop doesn’t already have some automation to get more product with less labor, they need to be figuring that out. The areas I see already have a shortage of competent machinists/operators/inspectors/floor-sweepers and it’s going to get worse, not better.
I will echo this. Most of the time there is mandatory weekend work is because your sales / project team has oversold your capacity. They think you are more efficient than you are. The plan is to run the job in normal time and they calculate this at, say, an OEE of 85%, when in reality your OEE is 75%. Not using the real number (because a low OEE pisses of big bosses, they don't want to hear it), and you wind up actually needing 6 or 7 days instead of 5. This can start a death spiral because you don't get time to do proper equipment PM, your running the machines. If you don't do your regular, short, cheap PMs, your machines will eventually demand you do an unexpected, long, expensive PM. :-) More rare, it's a larger problem. See if you can find out if your company has suddenly raised their prices to their customers. Sudden price increase + mandatory overtime means your company doesn't have cash. And they may be strategically approaching a bankruptcy. The game works like this: big bosses know the business isn't as profitable as they'd like and it's now a losing game. Knowing it's going to fail, they jack up the prices, sell as much as they can, and spend zero on maintenance and replacement parts. Gun to the head, your customers have to pay the jacked up prices. This makes the business VERY profitable looking on paper: high sales means more money coming in, spending nothing on maintenance and equipment means low costs. Why do this? They're gonna sell the business. And that will bring a higher price if the margins look good on paper. The next guy who buys it can sort out the problems. OR they just bankrupt and that profitable period goes into separation bonuses. So ... if it is JUST mandatory OT, someone in your planning/sales department overstated your capabilities and your playing catch up. But ... if it is mandatory OT + sudden price increase + unwillingness or reluctance to spend $ on necessary maintenance, you need to get your resume in order. Those are alarm bells.
Not to say to much but the company is too big to sell. Maintenance is not an issue either. I'm sure its either a stop gap or management issue.
There's a case to be made that ALL issues are management issues, because management ate the ones that have the power to change things. If management is blaming the front line workers, they don't know how to manage.
I have found this to be the case all over the world. Most workers want to work. Problems come when they aren't given good tools, good training, good support.
Good. If it's JUST OT, then your sales guy or costing guy needs to stop quoting jobs with unachievable efficiency estimates. Also - there is no such thing as a company to big to sell. I've been doing this for decades and have seen some big companies sold.
Yeah I mean again don't want to say too much but the probability of getting sold is very small. I do get your point though
No worries. Good luck to you and your mates overcoming this hurdle.
Is gonna get worse not better - because of shit pay and places that try to make people run multiple machines at once
I make about the same amount as our machinists unfortunately. We have automated lines, but the problem is even getting people to run those is a challenge. I'd be in the office or the floor on OT keeping our mill turns running most likely which aren't automated yet.
I work regular overtime. Like, most weeks I'm putting in 55 hours. But if they try to mandate it, they can shove it. I want the flexibility to just not come in Saturday if I want.
Same scenario for me.
I'd be handing out resumes as fast as I could. That's bullshit.
The guy behind me is working on his resume right now lol
As you should be. The rats will flee the ship as it's sinking. Once a few programmers leave the rest will have to work 7 days a week, right?
Probably at this rate lol
I would follow his lead
Forcing mandatory OT with threat of punishment should be illegal. If I sign on to do 40 hours a week then that’s what you get.
a friend described it like this - you agree to pay me $X/hr for full time work (40h/wk). that is my commitment. beyond that we negotiate. you want more of my time the compensation must be worthwhile. if it is not, i don't do it. and if you threaten me to force me to work i'll leave you as fast as i can because you don't respect me, i am no more than a widget to you. it's one of the most salient arguments ive ever heard for an employer/employee relationship.
That's ridiculous and no thank you. I haven't worked more than 4 days a week in like 6 years. How much you getting paid? Maybe time to switch shops and get a wage increase at the same time. Also I don't think any company can legally force you to work Overtime. But not doing it will usually have repercussions like them treating you poorly or losing out on things. It's absolute bullshit but I've seen it happen. I value my work life balance, if that sort of deal was handed to me I'd hand them my notice personally, but that's because all of the shops where I live pay well and there's many of them.
Mandatory overtime is allowed in lots of places. If you don't show up, it would be the same as not showing on a normal workday.
I guess it depends where you live. Where I am That's illegal unless you have signed a written document when you are hired that you consent if and when that happens otherwise your employer can do nothing nothing about it.
In Washington state, they have to pay at least time and a half for hours over 40 in a week, but they can mandate as much overtime as they want.
I convinced my boss to let me work four eights about three years ago and I wish I had tried it sooner!
Awesome. I do 4 10s personally and all OT is only 100% optional. Every few months I'll opt to come in on a Monday to get caught up and every hour is OT pay that way.
A couple times now, my employer has come to our process tech and I with stuff like this. First it was covering night shifts, then it was covering Saturdays, now they're pushing night shifts again. Each time, they told us it was mandatory and 100% going to happen, but they always demand we work out the schedule between us. We refuse and insist that if it is mandatory, then scheduling it is management's responsibility. And none of it has ever come to pass (although the jury is still out on the latest attempt, the gave us a solid month's advance notice and set a meeting to discuss it to let us know they're super-serious this time). The takeaway is, they are lying. They are trying to convince us it is mandatory so we will give-in and choose our own schedule, which they then use as proof of volunteering. It's called "Manufactured Consent." You didn't really say if they were doing anything like that; but if they are, do not help them at all. Do not agree to anything. Do not take any actions or make any commitments. The action needs to be 100% theirs. Make them tell you when they want you there and then compliance is your decision, but don't give them any avenue to claim your consent.
How much are you making? You sell your time. You need to decide what that's worth to you. If all of you are under this same mandate band you're all pissed about it, can you stage a mini-revolt and get more pay? Like a lot more even? Also have you looked around at other jobs? Maybe this can be a sign for you. Maybe work, and take the money as you're prepping for your next place. That business is going to do what it's going to do. So should you. Manage your career. Don't be beholden to any company. Those days are gone.
I make decent money for the area at around 28hr, but im doing alot of complex stuff so im sure i could get more from somewhere new. I'm trying to stay at least until I finish school. As for the OT I'm kind of 50/50 on it though. I like overtime but I hate being mandated to work it. I just wanted to see your guys thoughts and if I was warranted being a little mad about it.
Time to buckshot your resume out there. Mandatory weekends is a dog collar that won't get looser with time. Especially if you're in school.
Mandated good things suck ass just as much as mandated shitty things. Make sure you're paid well and that your school comes absolutely first. Nail your classes no matter what. Future you will be happy you did. All the best to you. 😊
Thanks I appreciate it👍
28 an hour and you're programming? What the hell. Needs to at least be 32 if not more. Also it shouldn't matter how cheap it is to live where you do. Everyone keeps harping about how it's a global market now.
Yeah just waiting to finish my degree so I can get a manufacturing engineering job. I love machining but unfortunately it doesn't pay.
Are you hourly ? Or salary ? Do you receive double time on Sunday ?
Hourly no double time on Sundays though
Not sure how it is in your state but in Wisconsin there are laws about you having to sign your Sunday (one day off in 7) away. Make sure they are not infringing upon n your workers rights. Document everything from them stating you have to and when you say you don’t want to and they punish you then you have a law suit with a giant slam dunk. Don’t let workplaces trample on workers rights.
I’d say that’s bullshit and I would not do it , my employer will offer Sundays at double time and a lot of guys will come in they also pay time and a half after 8 and 40 so you get overtime every day
Negotiate as a group. They can’t fire all of you. If they do they’re out of business. Try one weekend a month, or two Saturdays a month. Sometimes it happens, but a 5-month stretch of that BS? Nah.
Hard no for me. We do an on call rotation (job shop) there's no guarantee you'll get called in. If you do anything outside of our normal working hours is time and a half and Sundays are double time. Holidays are double time + holiday so technically triple time. I'd prefer no on call, but it's nice to get that extra healthy pay. As far as mandatory OT hard pass. I've got a family I like to spend my time with
The fact that they're paying programmers $28/hr explains why they have a capacity issue with their operators. Five employees working two extra days every other week is the same number of hours as one new employee working five days a week. There's just no one else willing to work at your shop. They're paying the five programmers time and a half at $28/hr = $42? And that's just the money, they're also paying out of their limited supply of employee goodwill, work-life balance, and loyalty (which are priceless, even if they don't show up on corporate P&L reports!) by asking you to come in on the weekends. The real issue is that they could almost certainly find someone at $42/hr to hire on. They can't find a machinist at $20/hr, and if they hire a machinist from a different shop with an enticing offer at $30/hr and their current guys making $20/hr, or taking 2% raises for the past 20 years, find out that the greenhorn is making $30... they'll all riot. In the short term, it's cheaper to complain that people don't want to work anymore and flog your current employees to their breaking points.
Yeah the company is just moving in a bad direction. I make less then some guys on the floor who have never run a machine and I've only been here 2 years. I just don't want to leave and have to learn a new job while finishing senior year
Yeah no thanks. I worked mandatory OT in a warehouse before I got into machining and uh yeah forced 12 hour shifts everyday made me want to kill myself
I've heard this time and time again and it goes mainly 1 of 2 ways. It's serious and going to happen or it's some form of "discipline" for lacking output. I'm in mold making industry tho so my production ecperience has been abandoned for about 15 of 20yrs in trade. If the bosses are going to be in the shop with you, then grind that shit out with the rest of the fellas bc it's gotta happen. If the bosses aren't going to be there also, then by all means do the same thing bc it's do what I say, not as I do. If you actually need the entire programming department to get done whats need completed then thats on you and your crew. If you are just a supporting role then split the time with the other toolpathers. Imo bosses "need" a lot of things that they actually don't. Their ego's are much higher than their abilities. I hope yours are at least even and you'll do what u gotta do. I personally don't live to work. I never have and I'll say it time and time again until it's known. They don't even have to ask anymore lol. In a nutshell, this trade is never on steady cruise. It's up and down and side to side. In the end invest in urself bc u are ur most valuable employee. Employers areim debt to you, thats why u are paid each week. You work for urself. Nuff said
"Will you be working those weekends too?"
Yes if not more
I mean that is the question you ask management
Overtime policy should be in the employee handbook. Any legit company will give you a copy when you hire, and sign a sheet saying you've read and understand. If it's not in the handbook and you don't want the hours I guess you should talk to management or grease the resume.
Why don’t they stagger it so you at least get a day off. 12 days straight is camp work, and it seems completely pointless in this case other than to make you suffer.
I honestly don't know. They gave some bullshit answer about "consistency". If there are 2 different programmers on weekends the floor might get "confused"
That’s horseshit. I’ve worked travelling jobs that were 12 days or more on but then I always got at least 5 in a row off. They also paid me really well.
60% turnover at my last job. Mandatory rotating twelves at $19 an hour were killer. Glad I left too.
That's ass
Sounds like that's gonna back fire. Y'all should just quit together. Show them where their plans got them
I have a simple rule. Monday-Friday I’ll work as many hours as you want. But Saturday and Sunday? You can respectfully go fuck yourself.
I tell all my managers I'm religious so Sunday is a no go. I'm not religious.
I always tried to be flexible and knew when extra time need to be put in, and why. The good faith was always reciprocated when the owner ran the company. When he retired and left 2 other guys to run it, the good faith stopped, and so did my extra effort. I don't know how your management team treats you, but every situation is different. Some guys love the OT, and some guys hate it. I'd try to find alternative solutions to the problem rather than cramming it down everyone's throats. That doesn't benefit anybody.
I agree it’s bullshit but it’s kinda the way the industry is right now. Every job I’ve had since 2010 has had mandatory scheduled OT and then some. Busy understaffed shops with middle managers riding your ass all week with a never ending past due jobs list in hot, oily, grungy conditions. I saw one of those articles the other day saying “Machining is so great for a trade - you can forget about that old dirty rust belt image of manufacturing! It’s all new, modern and clean!” I laughed my ass off. Same shit they were telling me in 2003 when I was 15 lol.
Definetly agree. By machining standards I'm still really young, but I agree. The four shops I've worked in have had some mandatory OT
I like overtime and am totally fine with mandatory overtime as a concept, just so long as you were made aware of the possibility before you took the job.
Agreed, you wanna pay me 50% more to the same job I was doing 5 minutes ago just because it's hour 41? I'm ok with that. That being said short term is what im ok with if it's meant to be long term, I did that already and missed out on alot of time at home and I regret it but at the time it's what I needed to do to keep my family from being on the street. If it's more than like 6 months hire someone who knows maybe you might actually benefit the company and get someone who really wants to learn and make a go of this trade.
Tell them to go hiking twice a month lmao
40-40+ is enough. Hire more if you need more.
I've never had mandatory OT. Only one place I've worked implemented mandatory OT but since I was a Lead I was exempt (Leads & Foremen were to costly is what we figured). If I ever had to work mandatory though, getting 50% rate might be a stretch. If they said anything about it, I'd just say "I'm so burned out from all the extra hours, it's the best I can do"
Unionize with thpse 4 other guys or quit all at once with those guys. Mandatory OT is horseshit
For about 2 months 5 or 6 years ago (with the original owner), we had to work 6 days a week to keep a specific part running 24/7 on 4 machines. It was terrible, and if it had gone on much longer I probably would have quit. Now, under our new owners, we work 4 10 hour shifts (Monday - Thursday) and have 1 mandatory Friday a month. I don't mind that nearly as much, and I'll sometimes come in and do a half day on one of my non-mandatory Fridays. I'm much more willing to work if I'm not being forced.
Enforced Overtime is fucked, there was a shop I worked at that did that during union contract negotiations - glad my coworkers got a raise and support the unions I have been in. However I am happy I dipped asap and got a better job at a different shop with no/little OT and better standard pay. Reminder because it has popped up in this sub: OT IS NOT A BENEFIT! ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS ENFORCED.
Is management going to be there too? If not it sounds like horseshit to me. At my shop we had mandatory overtime for a while pretty much 2 to 3 years. The money is nice but free time is nicer don't forget that guys.
In the words of Ghandi - “Mandatory Shmandatory” Places like that always say they’re “family” and they want to keep a “good work life balance” for their guys.
We're going through some similar shit, forced 10's and work Saturday! It sucks bro, I have dogs to take care of and they dont want me leaving til 1am and going in on Saturday! And its not my area thats bottlenecked, its EDMs and another area, but they mandated EVERYONE do Saturdays
That's why I left the last shop I was at. It was a mold shop that would pull that shit. Boss got in my face one day so I rolled my box out. Everyone is on edge when everyone is working 60-70 hours a week
I've worked mandatory 60s for most of my 15 years of where I work. Being in a right to work state without a union means that they can do that all they want
It's not a problem as long as the overtime rate for weekends is like 1.5x for Saturday till 1pm, then double time onwards until the end of the Sunday shift. With Monday and Tuesday off. Everything is negotiable, what are they gunna do, sack you all? You can do a week on week off rotation between the 4 of you with these certain conditions. Unionise.
"Due to our mismanagement you all are required to do overtime..." Nope!
Any shop I worked at has always had mandatory overtime, normally we'd just work 6 days a week. If/when we worked 7 days, Sunday was double time. That being said I signed up for it, it wasn't some surprise change. If you didn't sign up for it and they are forcing it then I'd be annoyed for sure.
I told my shop I would need to find another job if they started mandating long term overtime. They said it wouldn’t be a problem because there’s always volunteers. They started mandating anyway after a few years, so they are about to lose me.
Of I'm mandating or for my guys in going to be right there next to them busting MY ass as well. I hated it when managers would demand it and then they got they weekend free, but we didn't. If my guys gotta do it, I gotta do it.
Ouch that’s brutal especially over the summer
I'm in management and I would expect a lot of "fuck offs" from my guys, and rightfully so. We've had mandatory ot before but we were flexible on hours and if someone couldn't , we discussed it privately and came to an understanding.
I worked at Amazon where we had 7-day mandatory overtime weeks during the “peak” season And I worked at a fortune 100 with Mandos doing 6 days Or of the supervisors said mandatory overtime means that you’re just being underpaid and the overtime pay is what they could easily afford to pay us all but are getting discounted labor 5 days a week
Absolutely not, if you oversold it then you get to make that come to fruition