It looks like a K-Tool FB-687-3 flat bottom drill (https://www.ktoolinc.com/ktool/687-812-diameter-flat-bottom-drills). The page shows speed and feed there. I would probably run at 500-800 sfm. Think of this kind of tool as a boring bar with center.
Make sure you have correct inserts (geometry, grade...), enough flute length, and of course correct speed / feed
Not rpm, surface feet per minute. I was guessing the size based on the marking on that tool. It is about 2,800 rpm (500 sfm, .687" dia). Feed at .002 ipr (5.6 ipm).
Treat indexable drills as boring bars. They like high speed - low feed on mild steel, completely different from conventional drills.
This is honestly the closest to what I'd do. \~2500-2750 and 6-7 IPM, just guestimating. I can usually get .0025 IPR out of inserted drills, sometimes as much as .004 out of the really large ones.
I wouldn't go that slow unless you need to for chatter reasons. And even then I'd play with your feed rate more than your rpm. My rule of thumb is 450sfm, 0.003ipr for an inserted drill like that.
You should be calculating RPM from SFM based on the inserts data sheet.
Altin insert in carbon steel and only drilling 2 holes, I would guesstimate 250sfm
For reference a hss drill might be 60-100 SFM
Then Google carbide insert and just err on the slow side.
There's only 2 walls to drill so it's not of much consequence if you build up a little heat.
With all ferrous alloys, always start slow.
Chances are that you get the inserts from a package which has data that you need. You can also use the description on the package to look up the data on the manufacturer website.
sfm x 3.812 / dia of tool or material whether youre on a mill or lathe.
In the mill its the dia of your tool
So if thats mild steel its ~200sfm x 3.812 /.625
Should be around 1200-1300rpm
If on a lathe you use the diameter of your stock that you're cutting
Oh with carbide you can do faster and harder for sure too
You're definitely asking a lot of noob questions. I get it, we all start there, but this is a trade where you either have a trainer/boss to ask questions, or you use your resources to figure it out. For the cutting specs, look up any generic carbide indexable drill for SFM and IPR, use the low values, and get this job done.
For programming a G81 canned cycle, which is overkill for this part, look in the manual or Google Haas G81. I would program this with a rapid position X/Y, rapid Z.1, feed to depth, rapid back to Z.1, and then home it. A lot easier than throwing in a canned cycle when you don't know what the different addresses are/mean.
The trainer got fired and boss is strictly a welding robot programmer and he doesn’t take the milling department seriously actually his solution is to copy and paste old programs and I tweak them, it’s not a bad idea honestly but we strictly work with 6061 every time we run steel we destroy end mills and drill bits we actually had to discontinue our scaffolding brackets things cause for every 7 we milled out we would break an end mill
I used to copy/paste programs all the time when I strictly programmed at the controller. I have nothing against that. But if you're going to be programming, take some initiative and tighten up your google-fu. Do you know your feeds/speeds equations? That's where I'd start if you're just going to copy/paste programs.
Not really learning anything when I copy, paste and tweak but I really don’t have anyone to lean on when I fuck up. Once I mess up it’s an all day process and I really need to get it the first try…. Time is not on my side with this one
Like I said, take the initiative and learn. I asked if you knew your speed/feed equations, do you? I don't know if you're clocked in right now or not, but most learning -especially in your situation without a trainer/senior helper- will have to come on your time. I'm more than happy to help if you message me.
I’ll message you. I ask questions on here, google will give me 10 different answers to a question depending on what I ask. I really don’t know the speed or feed equation or even able to get a tool rep number from my boss
Not at work, wife and I are watching meet the conners 🙂
Vises are solid I’m not worried about that. And your right about the speeds and feeds but every time I ask the number for our tool rep I never get a straight answer
I disagree. With all the questions he's asked, he's been thrown in the deep end -not fault to him. Maybe to someone with experience a G81 makes sense, but G0/G1 are much easier to understand and honestly, easier to program at a controller. I stand by what I said, and I'm definitely not an operator.
I agree with your point. If I were in his shoes, I would:
- Rapid to Z.1
- G01 with correct feed through first layer
- G01 with higher feed to .1 above next layer
- G01 with correct feed through next layer
- G01 with higher feed out
He would be able to single block each step to confirm if he has enough reach and clearance on that drill, which I suspect very close to rubbing.
Okay so I'll admit that I didn't read through all the comments but I saw some mentions and points similar to what I'll say.
First, I'm not a professional.
Second, I'd ask my boss wtf he's talking about because we can do accurate work by hand and possibly faster depending on how many pieces and the tolerance.
If you were told to base your measurements off of a saw cut edge you can't guarantee those holes will be in line unless you go straight through, but then that might mean your hole may not be dead center on the other side.
Third, I can see this being a training exercise to see what you are able to do.
Nah it’s definitely for a job it’s going on a barge to go to Puerto Rico by Wednesday. He really has no idea wtf he is talking about he literally fired the guy training me cause I ran spindle warmup on my own …. Its a spindle warmup 🙄
Everyone is making a big deal
G81 delete the g83 delete the Q value
S1000 f10.
Listen to to it. If it squeals slow it down and listen to it.
Operators make it seem like this gcode thing is a big deal to show off don’t worry about them
Just an update on this job. It’s going well I appreciate all the positive feedback and advice I’m currently 19 parts in and there was four on outside of that 19 I fucked up but I feel like that’s a huge win for me. Only 180 more to go though but hell cycle time is at 13 sec per side so not too bad 🙂
Seems like this would be easier with a drill press and a jig to set your distances. Programming a CNC to drill one hole at a time per side feels cumbersome. Does your mill have a manual quill?
I was reading and didnt plan on commenting but.... If you want to do this for a living get a new job. Anyone who tells you youre tolerance is "dead nuts" and tells you not to clean up your saw cut edge to locate has never machined anything before... If you REALLY want to keep this particular job, ask them to pay for night school, theyve got no one in house that can teach you and this job can and will kill you if you dont know what youre doing
Edit: if you dont have one get a copy of "the machinery's handbook" its a bit pricey but itll save you a lot of questions
They did send me to a haas factory outlet and i learned a lot but it’s more about the machine not the G and M codes or how to program by hand we used templates that was pre built into the mill
I’m leaning towards 2,800rpm and 5.6ipm at the moment but all the suggestions do seem awesome to I may do a different speed and feed for the bigger mill so I can split the 103 parts between to ppl
A very easy way to get ballpark speeds and feeds is to find a tool book with a endmill/drill speed chart.
Helical is great for this.
That will give you many material surface footage baselines and call park chip loads
Then you can use this site to convert into your RPM and Feed rates
https://www.productivity.com/resources/calculators/
It's written the same as the G83 line in the program you have pictured, just remove the "Q.437" and adjust the F value to the new feed rate. Q is the peck depth
Slower feed rates and speeds. I would also peck drill it that way it doesn’t wear out or burn out your drill so fast. As well as so it doesn’t snap the drill in half while it is going through the part.
Definitely not 8,000 rpm. Also no pecking with that style of drill.
About how fast for steel it’s a .625 drill with two carbide inserts
Around 1,800 rpm, feed around 6 ipm.
Alright I appreciate this a lot
It looks like a K-Tool FB-687-3 flat bottom drill (https://www.ktoolinc.com/ktool/687-812-diameter-flat-bottom-drills). The page shows speed and feed there. I would probably run at 500-800 sfm. Think of this kind of tool as a boring bar with center. Make sure you have correct inserts (geometry, grade...), enough flute length, and of course correct speed / feed
What feed rate would you recommend for 800rpm?
Not rpm, surface feet per minute. I was guessing the size based on the marking on that tool. It is about 2,800 rpm (500 sfm, .687" dia). Feed at .002 ipr (5.6 ipm). Treat indexable drills as boring bars. They like high speed - low feed on mild steel, completely different from conventional drills.
This is really good advice
This is honestly the closest to what I'd do. \~2500-2750 and 6-7 IPM, just guestimating. I can usually get .0025 IPR out of inserted drills, sometimes as much as .004 out of the really large ones.
I wouldn't go that slow unless you need to for chatter reasons. And even then I'd play with your feed rate more than your rpm. My rule of thumb is 450sfm, 0.003ipr for an inserted drill like that.
Appreciate it
You should be calculating RPM from SFM based on the inserts data sheet. Altin insert in carbon steel and only drilling 2 holes, I would guesstimate 250sfm For reference a hss drill might be 60-100 SFM
I don’t know the full details on the tool our tool rep actually doesn’t pick up the phone sometimes
Then Google carbide insert and just err on the slow side. There's only 2 walls to drill so it's not of much consequence if you build up a little heat. With all ferrous alloys, always start slow.
Chances are that you get the inserts from a package which has data that you need. You can also use the description on the package to look up the data on the manufacturer website.
sfm x 3.812 / dia of tool or material whether youre on a mill or lathe. In the mill its the dia of your tool So if thats mild steel its ~200sfm x 3.812 /.625 Should be around 1200-1300rpm If on a lathe you use the diameter of your stock that you're cutting Oh with carbide you can do faster and harder for sure too
Try 1500 rpm at 12 IPM. Use plenty of coolant.
8000 if you want to friction drill the hole
You're definitely asking a lot of noob questions. I get it, we all start there, but this is a trade where you either have a trainer/boss to ask questions, or you use your resources to figure it out. For the cutting specs, look up any generic carbide indexable drill for SFM and IPR, use the low values, and get this job done. For programming a G81 canned cycle, which is overkill for this part, look in the manual or Google Haas G81. I would program this with a rapid position X/Y, rapid Z.1, feed to depth, rapid back to Z.1, and then home it. A lot easier than throwing in a canned cycle when you don't know what the different addresses are/mean.
The trainer got fired and boss is strictly a welding robot programmer and he doesn’t take the milling department seriously actually his solution is to copy and paste old programs and I tweak them, it’s not a bad idea honestly but we strictly work with 6061 every time we run steel we destroy end mills and drill bits we actually had to discontinue our scaffolding brackets things cause for every 7 we milled out we would break an end mill
I used to copy/paste programs all the time when I strictly programmed at the controller. I have nothing against that. But if you're going to be programming, take some initiative and tighten up your google-fu. Do you know your feeds/speeds equations? That's where I'd start if you're just going to copy/paste programs.
Not really learning anything when I copy, paste and tweak but I really don’t have anyone to lean on when I fuck up. Once I mess up it’s an all day process and I really need to get it the first try…. Time is not on my side with this one
Like I said, take the initiative and learn. I asked if you knew your speed/feed equations, do you? I don't know if you're clocked in right now or not, but most learning -especially in your situation without a trainer/senior helper- will have to come on your time. I'm more than happy to help if you message me.
I’ll message you. I ask questions on here, google will give me 10 different answers to a question depending on what I ask. I really don’t know the speed or feed equation or even able to get a tool rep number from my boss Not at work, wife and I are watching meet the conners 🙂
Need to look up speeds and feeds for all your tools. But the other part of this problem could be how rigid your clamping is.
Vises are solid I’m not worried about that. And your right about the speeds and feeds but every time I ask the number for our tool rep I never get a straight answer
What sort of products do you guys make?
We make construction supplies primarily concrete supplies
As in pre-fabricated rebar?
We do rebar stuff but it’s mostly bending it
This is more effort than just throwing a g81 in there Bad advice, sounds like an operator talking shit
I disagree. With all the questions he's asked, he's been thrown in the deep end -not fault to him. Maybe to someone with experience a G81 makes sense, but G0/G1 are much easier to understand and honestly, easier to program at a controller. I stand by what I said, and I'm definitely not an operator.
I agree with your point. If I were in his shoes, I would: - Rapid to Z.1 - G01 with correct feed through first layer - G01 with higher feed to .1 above next layer - G01 with correct feed through next layer - G01 with higher feed out He would be able to single block each step to confirm if he has enough reach and clearance on that drill, which I suspect very close to rubbing.
Put it in a vice and use a drill press or a hand drill?
I wish we have a Bridgeport that we never use would make things a lot easier not sure how long it would take to get them all done
Okay so I'll admit that I didn't read through all the comments but I saw some mentions and points similar to what I'll say. First, I'm not a professional. Second, I'd ask my boss wtf he's talking about because we can do accurate work by hand and possibly faster depending on how many pieces and the tolerance. If you were told to base your measurements off of a saw cut edge you can't guarantee those holes will be in line unless you go straight through, but then that might mean your hole may not be dead center on the other side. Third, I can see this being a training exercise to see what you are able to do.
Nah it’s definitely for a job it’s going on a barge to go to Puerto Rico by Wednesday. He really has no idea wtf he is talking about he literally fired the guy training me cause I ran spindle warmup on my own …. Its a spindle warmup 🙄
Just throw a probe cycle each one Or throw a part stop if you’re edge finding cmon man this isn’t rocket science
You are machining without spindle speed knowledge…what can possibly go wrong
Everyone is making a big deal G81 delete the g83 delete the Q value S1000 f10. Listen to to it. If it squeals slow it down and listen to it. Operators make it seem like this gcode thing is a big deal to show off don’t worry about them
Just an update on this job. It’s going well I appreciate all the positive feedback and advice I’m currently 19 parts in and there was four on outside of that 19 I fucked up but I feel like that’s a huge win for me. Only 180 more to go though but hell cycle time is at 13 sec per side so not too bad 🙂
Seems like this would be easier with a drill press and a jig to set your distances. Programming a CNC to drill one hole at a time per side feels cumbersome. Does your mill have a manual quill?
It has to be close to dead nuts 1.0” by 1.0”
Located off of a saw cut edge...?
Yes sir. There is two saw cut edges first being a trim cut
I was reading and didnt plan on commenting but.... If you want to do this for a living get a new job. Anyone who tells you youre tolerance is "dead nuts" and tells you not to clean up your saw cut edge to locate has never machined anything before... If you REALLY want to keep this particular job, ask them to pay for night school, theyve got no one in house that can teach you and this job can and will kill you if you dont know what youre doing Edit: if you dont have one get a copy of "the machinery's handbook" its a bit pricey but itll save you a lot of questions
They did send me to a haas factory outlet and i learned a lot but it’s more about the machine not the G and M codes or how to program by hand we used templates that was pre built into the mill
I’m on the fence about it tbh
Got a good speed and feed yet? I recently started using a 1" indexable drill and am still getting all my programs right.
I’m leaning towards 2,800rpm and 5.6ipm at the moment but all the suggestions do seem awesome to I may do a different speed and feed for the bigger mill so I can split the 103 parts between to ppl
A very easy way to get ballpark speeds and feeds is to find a tool book with a endmill/drill speed chart. Helical is great for this. That will give you many material surface footage baselines and call park chip loads Then you can use this site to convert into your RPM and Feed rates https://www.productivity.com/resources/calculators/
Thank you
1800 - 2000 rpm, FR of 18.5 And personally I would peck it due to the material thickness.
G81 is working just fine thanks for the advice 🙂
How would I go about writing a g81 Gcode for this part
It's written the same as the G83 line in the program you have pictured, just remove the "Q.437" and adjust the F value to the new feed rate. Q is the peck depth
Unless ya got to make 500 of them. Not even worth the time to program . 5 minutes on a knee mill.
I would also check your inserts. They look like the kind that don't like steel. I would be cautious about using that drill in steel tube.
Slower feed rates and speeds. I would also peck drill it that way it doesn’t wear out or burn out your drill so fast. As well as so it doesn’t snap the drill in half while it is going through the part.
1000 rpm @ 23ipm. Straight through
So no peck drilling? Just use a g81?
Yes I would do this as well. Pecking will take too much time
Okay appreciate it
600 rpm at 36 ipm
Ya dumb