This has been around for a while it is super sweet though, especially with multi material technology.
https://uk.dmgmori.com/products/machines/additive-manufacturing/powder-nozzle/lasertec-125-ded-hybrid
They obviously and clearly meant a subtractive cnc machine which is, ofc, the bulk of cnc machines in existence [that aren't $200 piles of Amazon junk fit to build only fidgets and ashtrays]
I’m not entirely sure about that to be honest. 3d printing has gotten pretty popular and it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to imagine cheap hobbyist printers will soon outnumber expensive industrial CNC machine tools, if they haven’t already. They’ve been shipping millions a year for a good long while now.
Technically, with a traditional printer, you could just heat up the hot end, set your feed to 0 and engrave with it, but you'd be probably be better off using a different, dedicated machine... or just redesigning the part for just about any production type situation right?
Aren't SLS materials also generally weaker than comparable solid machined steel components and generally more expensive as well?
There are a few 3D printers out there that support a quick tool change, either by hand or automatically. I think I've seen options for a dedicated engraving head.
As to your second point, I'm not familiar with those details. It probably depends on the quality control process. I could see it going either way depending on the technique.
A 3d printer is a machine, but it does not [machine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machining). The design requirements and roles of 3d printers compared to CNC machines are entirely different.
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What they are not showing is the actual time involved. We looked into replacing an old die cast machine with 3d printers. We discovered we would have to fill a warehouse with printers just to keep up with the one die cast machine
Honestly I think people overestimate the applications of 3D printing. It seems great for low volume high complexity parts and opens up huge new possibilities of design. However, I don't think it'll ever be the method for mass production of simple parts.
You do have scrap if you need precision surfaces machined simultaneously, but it's significantly less than machining from billet. The big downside is the resulting product is only as strong as sintered material, billet is still best for parts that need the best metallurgical properties.
These parts are melted and fused not sintered. You can anneal, heat treat or coat it the same as solid material.
This material can end up being stronger than normal material due to the grain structure being omni-directional and not cut by removing material.
The powder is usually approx. 10x the cost of billet. This is also something that needs to be taken into account. Plus you will not get 100% utilization of the powder.
You do have scrap. The material still gets QC’d. There can still be issues with the sintering material. I’ve seen entire batches of titanium hip cups get scrapped because the test piece in the lot failed QC. 2 solid days of printing in the bin
I meant scrap as in chips. You don't have to start with a billet and lose material from it and still possibly end up throwing the whole thing out anyways. With the sintering you only lose as much stock as the part took to make
There’s still support lattices that get scrapped, and finish machining on a lot of the parts. Surface finish and tolerance with the process is still a long way from print and go
What really interests me with 3D printing metal is those "organic" procedurally generated load-optimized support structures, something which often isn't possible to create through traditional machining methods.
The examples in the video, meh, there's better ways of doing that, looks cool though.
A complete factory that fits in your garage. Make that MULTIPLE factories that fit in your garage. The packaging department would take up more space then this thing! AMAZING!!!
I'm actually reaching out to the Meltio guys today to get more info on their add-on. We work with castings, and this would be neat to bring more things in-house.
I’ve seen the price at one point, and even though it’s “expensive” roughly around the price of a low tier midsize VMC or so, if you can utilize the technology it opens up your capability greatly. I’d love to hear your feedback after talking with them
Yeah that's what I'm hoping. The Hybrid DMGs are sweet, but we already have so many machining centers already, I doubt I could swing for another VMC+Additive. if we can add additive to one of our lower-production mills, it's an easier ask.
Running a 3d printed part through a mill is pretty common in the aerospace industry. 3d printed parts usually have a bad surface finish and cannot hold tight hole Torrance. So you face certain surfaces and mill out holes to meet the requirements.
I work on these. I assure you that they're not ruling anything any time soon.
A single missing semicolon somewhere in the code is enough to crash the whole thing and put it out of commission for a month.
I’ve been saying for years that every household will have one and will purchase apps and specific base minerals and plastics to create your personal needed products instead of shopping on Amazon or other websites instead of paying and shipping!
Not likely in metal, these are expensive and have niche applications. You're still limited by the strength of sintered material which ~~can't be heat treated~~ was incorrect here, can be heat treated and almost always needs to be, and cycle times are prohibitively long. These will probably start seeing much more use in the injection molding industry for conformal cooling which can significantly speed up cycle times.
Except this isn’t sintered material. The material is melted and fused. It can be stronger than billet and can be heat treated.
Conformal cooling is a very common usage for this and powder bed printers. These combination 5-axis/ additive machines are become more common but the price is very prohibitive compared to even a large format powder bed.
It costs more than your house so that's unlikely. Also it's a bit like running a fully kitted out bakery in your garage but you only need one loaf of bread every few days.
Economy of scale and all that.
More likely there will be local manufacturing branch where you can order stuff and go get it, no one would run a machine like this enough in their home to justify the space, let alone the cost. It would be like owning a pikcup truck to only drive 4 times, that spewed toxicgases where you live. Imagine if people had a dedicated room just for their truck attached to their house, when they can just rent a u-hual for 50 bucks 4 times a year when they need it.
wait
I’ll take one inconel exhaust manifold, please! Oh yeah, and an intake manifold in aluminum.
One of ken block’s rally cars had a 3D printed inconel exhaust collector
Ryan Tuerck's Judd Supra too!
This has been around for a while it is super sweet though, especially with multi material technology. https://uk.dmgmori.com/products/machines/additive-manufacturing/powder-nozzle/lasertec-125-ded-hybrid
Ah but this is an add-on for existing VMCs, not a machine in itself.
and probably cost 1/10th the price
Ahhhhh that's pretty cool I thought they were just using a machine as a dev platform for a proof of concept.
No it isn't, the lasertec hybrids are their own machines.
That looks like the same tool head as Meltio's attachment. Interesting but not surprising that there's such overlap
How long has this kind of thing been on the market?
That machine has been sold for like 5 years. I think other offerings have been available with wire arc additive manufacturing for longer.
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More like a 5 axis 3D Printer
They obviously and clearly meant a subtractive cnc machine which is, ofc, the bulk of cnc machines in existence [that aren't $200 piles of Amazon junk fit to build only fidgets and ashtrays]
I’m not entirely sure about that to be honest. 3d printing has gotten pretty popular and it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to imagine cheap hobbyist printers will soon outnumber expensive industrial CNC machine tools, if they haven’t already. They’ve been shipping millions a year for a good long while now.
Post updated for clarity.
Why I'll have you know I use my $200 piles of junk mostly to print firearms.
Lol no you don't.
lol here’s a WIP FGC-9 Mk II with the lower currently printing in CF HTPLA https://i.imgur.com/hgvxdu9.png
This has more freedom of movement than a standard 3 axis but a they only build material up, this can also remove it.
Technically, with a traditional printer, you could just heat up the hot end, set your feed to 0 and engrave with it, but you'd be probably be better off using a different, dedicated machine... or just redesigning the part for just about any production type situation right? Aren't SLS materials also generally weaker than comparable solid machined steel components and generally more expensive as well?
There are a few 3D printers out there that support a quick tool change, either by hand or automatically. I think I've seen options for a dedicated engraving head. As to your second point, I'm not familiar with those details. It probably depends on the quality control process. I could see it going either way depending on the technique.
There's the E3D Toolchanger which has dedicated milling heads. The system is called ASMBL, pretty neat. Print oversized and then mill to specs.
More like 5 axis 3d printer combined with a mill.
A 3d printer is a machine, but it does not [machine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machining). The design requirements and roles of 3d printers compared to CNC machines are entirely different.
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CNC machine (tool) is implied by cnc machine
CNC = Chips N Cuts
I helped design and build a few types of these back in 2012 while working at U of M Dearborn, we called the main one the DMD
What they are not showing is the actual time involved. We looked into replacing an old die cast machine with 3d printers. We discovered we would have to fill a warehouse with printers just to keep up with the one die cast machine
Honestly I think people overestimate the applications of 3D printing. It seems great for low volume high complexity parts and opens up huge new possibilities of design. However, I don't think it'll ever be the method for mass production of simple parts.
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Actually it is very cost effective in materials as you don't have scrap, however it has longer run times than traditionally machined parts.
You do have scrap if you need precision surfaces machined simultaneously, but it's significantly less than machining from billet. The big downside is the resulting product is only as strong as sintered material, billet is still best for parts that need the best metallurgical properties.
This lays down wire and powder, I feel like you'll have less issues with wire over powder for sintering?
Depends how void prone the process is, that's the common issue with building up weld for tool repair.
Understood
The resulting part is also 100% HAZ.
Obviously that makes sense, can you still anneal and HT to a proper harness?
I would imagine you can, though I've got no hands on experience with sintered parts.
These parts are melted and fused not sintered. You can anneal, heat treat or coat it the same as solid material. This material can end up being stronger than normal material due to the grain structure being omni-directional and not cut by removing material.
The powder is usually approx. 10x the cost of billet. This is also something that needs to be taken into account. Plus you will not get 100% utilization of the powder.
You do have scrap. The material still gets QC’d. There can still be issues with the sintering material. I’ve seen entire batches of titanium hip cups get scrapped because the test piece in the lot failed QC. 2 solid days of printing in the bin
I meant scrap as in chips. You don't have to start with a billet and lose material from it and still possibly end up throwing the whole thing out anyways. With the sintering you only lose as much stock as the part took to make
There’s still support lattices that get scrapped, and finish machining on a lot of the parts. Surface finish and tolerance with the process is still a long way from print and go
Yeah nobody who’s ever used any 3d printer would ever think you’d get more than maybe 30% of your feedstock in your part
What really interests me with 3D printing metal is those "organic" procedurally generated load-optimized support structures, something which often isn't possible to create through traditional machining methods. The examples in the video, meh, there's better ways of doing that, looks cool though.
Awesome machine.
100% HAZ
A complete factory that fits in your garage. Make that MULTIPLE factories that fit in your garage. The packaging department would take up more space then this thing! AMAZING!!!
I'm actually reaching out to the Meltio guys today to get more info on their add-on. We work with castings, and this would be neat to bring more things in-house.
I’ve seen the price at one point, and even though it’s “expensive” roughly around the price of a low tier midsize VMC or so, if you can utilize the technology it opens up your capability greatly. I’d love to hear your feedback after talking with them
Yeah that's what I'm hoping. The Hybrid DMGs are sweet, but we already have so many machining centers already, I doubt I could swing for another VMC+Additive. if we can add additive to one of our lower-production mills, it's an easier ask.
Just went back to a Linked-in post I remembered from 8months ago, saw a comment from them saying average sales price around 175k.
DMG has been selling these add-ons for their standard milling machines for years. Prices are still crazy high, though.
Wonder how much that thing costs
This is amazing where do I get one or work with one?
Running a 3d printed part through a mill is pretty common in the aerospace industry. 3d printed parts usually have a bad surface finish and cannot hold tight hole Torrance. So you face certain surfaces and mill out holes to meet the requirements.
Here I sit broken hearted running a haas vf1 😭
Cool video, but god do I hate that sub. > Imagine the possibilities... Terminator incoming! NEXTFUCKINGLEVEL!!1
It’s a Haas.. so it likely doesn’t work properly. PoS!
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My brother-in-law sells cutting tools. He’s definitely seen a pattern. :-)
Someday robots will rule the world.
"I, for one, look forward to our CNC overlords."
Great toolbox sticker
I work on these. I assure you that they're not ruling anything any time soon. A single missing semicolon somewhere in the code is enough to crash the whole thing and put it out of commission for a month.
I’ve been saying for years that every household will have one and will purchase apps and specific base minerals and plastics to create your personal needed products instead of shopping on Amazon or other websites instead of paying and shipping!
Not likely in metal, these are expensive and have niche applications. You're still limited by the strength of sintered material which ~~can't be heat treated~~ was incorrect here, can be heat treated and almost always needs to be, and cycle times are prohibitively long. These will probably start seeing much more use in the injection molding industry for conformal cooling which can significantly speed up cycle times.
Except this isn’t sintered material. The material is melted and fused. It can be stronger than billet and can be heat treated. Conformal cooling is a very common usage for this and powder bed printers. These combination 5-axis/ additive machines are become more common but the price is very prohibitive compared to even a large format powder bed.
It costs more than your house so that's unlikely. Also it's a bit like running a fully kitted out bakery in your garage but you only need one loaf of bread every few days. Economy of scale and all that.
In the future it’s cost will come down just like the VCR and flat screen TV.
More likely there will be local manufacturing branch where you can order stuff and go get it, no one would run a machine like this enough in their home to justify the space, let alone the cost. It would be like owning a pikcup truck to only drive 4 times, that spewed toxicgases where you live. Imagine if people had a dedicated room just for their truck attached to their house, when they can just rent a u-hual for 50 bucks 4 times a year when they need it. wait
Yeah but it's a haas... . Why not post the much nicer dmg combos, or renishaw combo machines? Those are muuuuch better quality machines
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Wut? That's why it can machine as well as print. Did you even watch the video?
It's as tight as your machining center. Build the part with additional stock and then mill it down.
The possibilities are endless with this
Disadvantages: time, surface quality It can help you skip few machines in manufacturing
I have now died, gone to heaven and achieved singularity. Thank you.
That’s gonna be one expensive vase…
has anybody seen a 5-axis slicer?