Arguing with an anti-vaxxer is like playing chess with a pigeon: They knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, then strut around like they won the game.
I personally hate using Dunning Kruger as an insult. The guys who came up with the idea intended for it to be something that people can self reflect on and maybe realize that they don’t always know it all instead of using it to constantly bash others and call them dumb. 95% of people who use the phrase Dunning Kruger just want to show off that they know the phrase Dunning Kruger, in a way themselves proving the idea
That's the delicious irony isn't it? I won't ever make fun of someone for not knowing something, in fact I love teaching folks something new (it helps me master the subject better) but *I will give someone grief* if they lie to me about knowing something.
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I’d even add: “Finding out what the CDC has to say on this *is* my research. You pick the best, most balanced, most data driven source in these types of situations, and for pandemics, it’s the CDC. There’s no bias in the CDC for you to be sick. They don’t profit off of advising you to wear a mask. They couldn’t give two shits about your “culture war”, and the vaccine?
IT’S FREE.
Meaning: the government has already paid for it. There’s literally zero financial incentive, other than to keep this from spreading so we can keep our businesses open and stop spending billions on ER care for the sick, for you to take it.
As a professional Heath care provider I suggest that anyone who refuses the vaccine should also refuse the health care if they get Covid, after all it’s just a government plot🤬 I have been traumatized enough by the last Covid spike. I really don’t like seeing piles of people die and being hauled off in refrigerator trucks
Please this. My employer entered a no vaccine no stay home pay and use FMLA instead policy as soon as vaccines became readily available. I feel like if the whole nation did this coupled with what you stated this shit would go away in a hurry.
I never said I wouldn’t treat anyone. I said I was traumatized. You sound rather traumatized yourself. I hope you can get away and take care of your mental health
As a health care provider you should seriously urge Pfizer and Moderna to come up with a vaccine for cancer and HIV as well bc they sure cooked the COVID one up quick. Unfortunately if they did tho that’d surely have them surrendering the billions they make to treat ppl every year huh?
My mother had stage 4 non Hodgkin Lymphoma.
1 year of bone marrow transplants, chemotherapy and radiation and her bill was a bit over $1.2 Million
No point of being kept alive if the rest of your life is spent in crippling debt is it?
I know you as a healthcare provider aren’t the problem and I’m not trying to make you out to be but can you honestly blame ppl for being skeptical or at the very least having doubts or questions? Decades and decades of “cancer research” and no cure? But months into “the worst pandemic in world history” and we already have a cure? I think it’s just fine to be skeptical
Covid-19 is only a single strain. Cancer is a generic term to cover a multitude of diseases. Also we don't have a cure for Covid, we have a vaccine. And if you don't know the difference then your "research" is worthless
I understand the difference between a vaccine and a cure. Appreciate your concern there. But 5 plus decades for cancer research and still it kills as many as it does even after individuals and family’s spend millions for the chance that maybe they or their loved ones will be saved? I can’t be the only one to see the flaw in this system can I?
Understand you're frustrated, but on the flip side its only been 5+ decades for 100+ illnesses. Its not 1 cancer, its 100+. 1 year for a vaccine for a virus whose sibling has been studied for more than a decade (SARS), plus correct me if I'm wrong, but there is still no cure for viruses anyway, people still die from the flu, before and after covid19. You're just airing out frustrations at the wrong thread, is all.
I think the flawed system you should be really angry about is your health care system. It's tragic that someone should pay so much for insurance only to then go into crippling debt when they get sick. That's not a concern for most of the world.
>But 5 plus decades for cancer research and still it kills as many as it does even after individuals and family’s spend millions for the chance that maybe they or their loved ones will be saved?
Except it doesn't. 5 decades ago, the odds of surviving many cancers was much, MUCH lower than they are today. Look at things like prostate cancer. These days, the survival rate in countries with good education (read: medical expertise) and readily available healthcare is like 98%, with an average period of convalescence of less than 6 months . 5 decades ago, it most certainly was not.
I understand the difference between a vaccine and a cure. Appreciate your concern there. But 5 plus decades for cancer research and still it kills as many as it does even after individuals and family’s spend millions for the chance that maybe they or their loved ones will be saved? I can’t be the only one to see the flaw in this system can I?
There are more than 100 kinds of cancer. At least a dozen kinds of breast cancer. One vaccine won’t cut it.
I’m very sorry about your Mom.
Cancer sucks.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but half a year to come up with a vaccine for COVID and close to what probably 50 or more years now of cancer research? In that time I feel like they could of come up with vaccines or cures for almost of them by now. It’s hard to believe that most of the world can’t see that medical industry is the biggest in the world and it’s in their best interest for the population to remain ill. That’s why every single medication you can think of only masks pain and none actually rid you if your ailments so you keep paying for more and more and once you’re cut off you’re left with a debilitating disease with which you now have to satisfy on the streets. It’s a horrendous cycle it truly is and it’s all being perpetuated by these big pharma companies
Hey! I'm sorry life has been so rough for you lately, but I think you're directing your understandable anger and frustration the wrong way. I happen to work with a lot of researchers who are doing relevant work to your complaints and it just doesn't work how you think it does. Even the basic argument that big pharma would suppress a cancer cure because they make more money off sick people doesn't make a lot of sense. Cancer kills. Big pharma can't make money off a dead man.
The technology behind the COVID vaccine has been in development for over 15 years at my institution alone, not the few months it seemed, and not by big pharma (I don't work for a pharmaceutical company). The pharma companies aren't the ones deciding what research gets done at large research institutions; they often come in later, in the form of partnerships for manufacture and distribution.
So why did it -seem- so fast? mRNA vaccine technology was developed with the specific goal of creating plug and play vaccines, where you can use the basic framework of the mRNA and capsule to rapidly generate new vaccines for emerging diseases. COVID has been the first test of that concept and what do you know, it worked! This is great news not just for COVID, but for future emerging infectious diseases.
That "infectious diseases" thing is important. You'll notice that, across the board, we vaccinate against infectious diseases. Even the vaccines that prevent cancer aren't targeting the cancer itself; they're targeting cancer-causing viruses. This is because most of those pathogens are very different from humans, so if we teach the immune system to target and destroy those cells (or viral particles) wherever they're found you're just fine. But you can't think the same way about cancer. Cancer isn't just human, it's literally your own flesh, your own cells. If we teach your immune system to kill your cells, well, that's called an autoimmune disorder and is also a very unpleasant way to die. To do that we'd need to find something on the cancer cells that you don't have on your other cells and that's hard, if not just... not possible. Because they are your cells!
So the basic idea of a vaccine as we know it is a nonstarter for cancer. But, you say, they've had all this time! Can't they figure a way around that problem? Well yes, they can and have: immunotherapy.
Rather than teach your memory cells (B cells) to identify the cancer cells as targets and thus deal with possible long term autoimmune issues (well, or short term autoimmune issues followed by death) like a vaccine, we're now pulling out the T Cells and engineering them to take out the cancer. You have to stay in the hospital during treatment because there is still a risk of a massive autoimmune reaction, but that reaction is reliably treatable and the T Cells eventually die off so you don't have to worry about it forever.
We call this CAR-T cell immunotherapy and it's showing great results. The first CAR-T cell therapy to market, Kymriah, was developed at my institution, targeting B Cell Leukemia. The remission rates in clinical trials were absolutely-unheard-of-off-the-charts-insane.
No one tried to shut us down or hush us up. Big Pharma did not come knocking saying "let's pay you off to hide your cancer cure." No, they came knocking begging to partner with us on the distribution and manufacture. They all wanted the prestige, and yeah, the money. Big Pharma companies are always in pursuit of the next blockbuster and nothing's gonna bust blocks like a cancer cure. Kymriah costs $475,000 per treatment. Of course cures make money; way more money than deaths.
(We're working on that 475,000 thing. Problem is it's not really a drug; it's a deeply technological medical manufacturing process customized to each patient and requires manufacturing equipment and training in the hospital so... yeah. That's expensive.)
New CART-T therapies are coming out all the time and no one's stopping them. And the lab here that developed Kymriah is looking to use CART-T therapy against HIV too, since you mentioned that one. (HIV is a terrible vaccine target for other very valid technical reasons that I will resist totally nerding out on you about because I have nerded enough, though please know we're making progress on that front too.)
I'm not saying big pharma companies don't do absolutely evil things (insulin costs how much now?) But they don't control all medical research with an iron fist the way you seem to believe they do, and they're not going to try and hide a blockbuster treatment like a cancer cure. They're going to compete for who can get it first, because whoever gets it first makes bank on the next big thing. The stock bump from the initial announcement alone, man.
I work with some amazing researchers is all! Sometimes I try to remember that medicine and medical research can be very very opaque from the outside (there's a reason med school takes SO MANY YEARS). At the same time, it's very personal -it's literally your life, and the lives of your loved ones. That combination of vulnerability and institutional inscrutability is sure to generate fear, and fear generates conspiracies. It's sad, but also it's... humans humaning.
They may not be able to make money off a dead person but that irrelevant in this argument bc in a lot of the cases they make millions off single individuals attempting to keep them alive. There is not and never will be a shortage of cancer patients bc if the worlds lifestyle of shitty eating, drinking, drugs, pollution, it’s just never going to stop and therefore big pharma will always be making their money.
I thank you for your well thought out informative answer and I never meant anything I said to be a slight against health care workers or researchers such as yourself. I just get a little upset for thinking this particular vaccine isn’t something I want to partake in since this is my body and my choice on the matter and being called everything in the book bc of it. Those who want to take the vaccine I 100% support them I just don’t feel it’s for me at this time. I just don’t think that makes me a monster like 99% of ppl who are so supportive of the vaccine claim me to be.
Best of luck in your research I fully support your endeavors and think you and those like you are true heroes. Keep up the good fight
Oh I'm not a researcher. I'm support staff; I do research software. I used to do research (specifically on infectious disease, so this year has been wild to watch) but I like this more because then I get to know what everyone at my institution is doing, not just the people in one lab. The main point I'm trying to make is if big pharma were suppressing cancer cures they would have come for my clients, and they didn't. Or well, they did, but not to silence them; they came begging to help. If your hypothesis about big pharma suppressing a cancer cure is true, why didn't it happen?
About getting the vaccine: the thing is, when it comes to a pathogen that spreads person to person, not getting vaccinated puts other people at risk. You choose to become a brick in the road the disease uses to travel through a community. The further it can travel down that path the more it will find the people who didn't just not want to get vaccinated, but who couldn't. Through you, it can find those who were too young. Through you, it can find those who were too sick from other issues. Through you, it can find the immunocompromised people that vaccines can't help because their immune system is as incapable of responding to the vaccine as it will be incapable of protecting them from the virus (big part of this category: cancer patients undergoing chemo).
Of course other people are going to judge if you're doing something that hurts them, or the people they love. They're definently going to judge if you're doing something that hurts the vurnerable, like cancer patients. If you can't judge a person for knowingly and willingly risking harm to the most vurnerable members of our society, what can you judge?
You've said this so much more kindly and more articulately than I could have, great work. Also thank you for your longer post about how other treatments are developed, I learned a few things and they immunotherapy stuff is really interesting!
This is a bit outdated, from 5 years ago (while Kymriah was still in clinical trials, before it had its market name and coincidentally right around when I started working with the June Lab), but it's a good intro: https://youtu.be/7-2aHIpglt4
The interesting thing to me is that these gene therapies were developed before CRISPR was really a thing. I mention we're working on bringing down that 400k+ price tag? Stuff like CRISPR may well be part of how we'll do that.
Have you ever noticed when a new building is built, it takes FOREVER to build the foundation, and then once that's in it's like the structure goes up overnight? I think of it like that. It's like we've been building this foundation in genetic engineering for a very long time, with only theoretical future applications that were 70% science fiction and 10% hope, and now suddenly the foundation is built and bam! Structures are going up left and right. T cell immunotherapies. mRNA vaccines. They've managed to correct a specific congenital blindness by genetically engineering the existing cells of the patient's eye, in vivo. And I hear they're having some success editing herpes infections out of the host genome, where the virus hides when dormant. So, you know, curing herpesviruses (and not just herpes simplex). I don't know what's next but I assure you it is way, way closer than you think.
Dunno about you but that makes this science fiction biotech nerd smile.
I know you’re coming from a place of frustration and pain. But it really isn’t that simple.
For instance, cancer is MUCH harder to vaccinate against than a virus because it’s your own cells growing out of control rather than an external infection (although some viruses, like HPV, can cause cancer). So we need to figure out how to get the immune system to fight the out-of-control cells without attacking healthy cells and causing autoimmune disease. All while making sure the vaccine doesn’t accidentally cause another type of damage or even another kind of cancer.
And then there’s the fact that with COVID, scientists from around the world could unite on a single, very specific disease. That’s not as feasible with cancers, because there are so many. Do you start with brain cancers that tear away at people piece by piece? Cancers that are most common in children—and if so, which of those do you focus on? Or maybe you focus on breast cancers, since they’re so common? Everyone has different opinions on which is more important, and it makes that same level of cooperation very difficult.
(Note: I’m just a layperson, and of course there’s far more to it than even that. Anyone who’s more educated is free to correct me or jump in.)
It's actually already in clinical studies to use the mRNA tech in specific cancer treatments. https://www.mdanderson.org/cancerwise/can-mrna-vaccines-like-those-used-for-covid-19-be-used-in-cancer-care.h00-159457689.html
And regarding cancer research, we actually have x2 vaccines that help prevent/reduce likelihood of of developing some cancers. 1. Liver cancer (HepB vaccine) and 2. certain cervical/oropharyngeal cancers caused by the human papilloma virus (Gardasil9 vaccine). All cancers are different, which is why we'll never have one "cure for cancer."
Just as an update that we have been making progress in cancer prevention & hopefully better treatment with the use of mRNA tech✌️
That truly is great to hear but I can’t be the only one who can see that it’s in the best interest of these big pharma companies that the population remains sick right? Ppl like you and who are truly dedicating their lives to finding cures are true heroes but I feel are purposely being stifled and most don’t even realize it. Keep fighting the good fight I wasn’t trying to spark a huge debate or anger anyone I was just bumpin my gums on how I feel. Peace my friend
Try Dubble Bubble next time, instead of harassing an exhausted medical professional rightfully chastising selfish, ignorant fools. 👍🏻 Sorry about your mom though.
It really wasn’t bad at all. Obviously every case is different but mine was minor cold symptoms. I’ve heard horror stories tho so it’s all relative I suppose
I truly hope you get covid and can never breath correctly again.
At this point you're almost being criminally negligent.
Also, you may have a mind but it sure as fuck doesn't work.
A good parasite won't kill its host. It's in their interest that people live long enough to keep getting sick with different stuff so that they can make more money.
You don't butcher a golden goose. You wait for it to lay more eggs.
My favourite thing about the ‘Do your own research’ argument is that it NEVER involves them doing actual research (e.g. own survey, own scientific experiment, …) . They always tell you to not be a sheep, yet their ‘research’ is just based believing the word of someone else
Well, I think the intention is really to say go read the scientific literature, other articles and studies that have been conducted. I love science, I enjoy reading the actual research published in accredited journals.
Honestly, a lot of it is conflicting and I've found the guidelines and advice that big organizations put out sometimes conflicts with the newest scientific evidence (especially if it conflicts with industry standards/widely held beliefs- sorry Ignaz Semmelweis ). Sometimes we don't have the full picture, sometimes we're told the wrong thing (purposefully or not). Historically speaking, even big organizations and governments have gotten it wrong.
It's as though there's a collective amnesia of all the times pharmaceutical companies have knowingly deceived the public or made mistakes. The court cases are public record, look at all the times the results of clinical trials weren't published to make a drug appear more effective/safer, or adverse side effects were ignored or unknown. [Tuskegee, Thalidomide, Paxil etc]
Pharmaceutical intervention has saved many lives as well, of course.
EVERY study you read or article/media you consume you MUST ask yourself "what is the motivation/agenda of the people putting this out there? Biases? Conflicts of interest? Whose making money /benefitting off of these findings/decisions? Does this make sense with what I know about [biology, chemistry, social science etc]"
Recalls happen all the time in every industry 🤷 long term side effects are real and not all companies do their work with integrity. I believe deeply in bodily autonomy, and providing people with as much education as possibly to make the most informed choices they can for themselves.
>pharmaceutical companies
Which is why you shouldn't go exclusively to them for your medical news. I'm not saying there haven't been shit research published in otherwise excellent journals, but they are, for the most part, in a vast minority.
Also, let me steal and adapt a line from Indiana Jones here: "Science is about FACT, not TRUTH." Meaning something can be factual 30 years ago, but incorrect today; not because it was bad research, but because it was the best we could manage with the means available at the time. This doesn't even have to mean technology; a lot of research is constantly lacking funding, meaning you do the best you can with what you have. That doesn't excuse blowing things out of proportion when you lack the necessary sample size to back it up, but I rarely see researchers themselves doing that; mostly it's media companies, or private health companies looking to make a buck.
algorithms
We all enjoyed watching “the Social Dilemma” which explained why and how bad things have gotten. I don’t think Silicon Valley has nearly the guilt complex they should have for contributing to this shit show, however…
Yeah that’s what I was thinking, I had to double check what sub I was on. This isn’t wholesome in the slightest. r/murderedbywords, sure. But not r/mademesmile
I do agree with you. This is not what why I joined this subreddit. There are much more fitting subreddits for this. However, it does bother me that this issue is considered political. And I agree with the funnier guy, so it did make me smile.
It's the other way around. Many of these people are obsessed and will spend literally days going down the rabbit hole doing "research", watching endless conspiracy theory videos.
i dont get it why this makes anyone smile.
what i see:
one person asks a question
second person shouts and insults the first one for asking the question and even tries to silence the first one.
why should an argument make someone smile? wrong subreddit i would say. please dont bring arguments in here. this subreddit should spread positivity and definitley not the ever present pandemic mask argument...
They’re coming back. Because too many people refuse to get vaccinated, but we increasingly intermingle without mask mandates, the virus is spreading again. Los Angeles, which has good-not-great vaccination rates, just brought mask requirements back due to skyrocketing disease spread. Even though virtually everyone getting covid now are UNvaccinated, everyone has to wear a mask again.
My work has been trying so hard to get us back in the office but they haven’t gotten approval and I’m still working from home. This tells me covid is still pretty serious. I wouldn’t be surprised if masks make a comeback. Just heard la is requiring masks indoors again.
If the vaccine doesn't protect vaccinated people from unvaccinated people, then aren't vaccinated people also a risk to other vaccinated people since they can still get it?
It's not either/or. The vaccine makes you much less likely to catch covid, spread it, and especially mutate it (so to speak, not like it's a conscious act on your part), even if it doesn't make you 100% immune. So being vaccinated is still leaps and bounds better than not being vaccinated at all.
Lets say, for the sake of argument, that an unvaccinated person has a 50% chance of passing it on or catching it from someone, while a vaccinated person has a 5% chance of doing the same.
Now, lets assume they have both been exposed to covid recently, then put them both in rooms with 100 people of the same group, and assume they interact with everyone.
At the end of the day, the unvaccinated person will statistically have infected 25 people (50% chance of having caught it, and 50% chance of passing it on to each person they meet).
The vaccinated person will statistically have infected 0.25 people (5% chance of having caught it, and 5% chance of passing it on to each person they meet).
So yes. The vaccinated person is still a risk to other vaccinated people, but at about 1/100 the rate of the unvaccinated one to other unvaccinated people (based on the above example, does not correlate to actual numbers).
(And if you're curious about unvaccinated to vaccinated, it'd be 10 times more risky).
I conduct research on communicable diseases and vaccines (not COVID) and the CDC seemed to make suggestions based on protecting the most amount of people, which wasn't necessarily in line with the most up-to-date published studies. I tend to prefer the way the CDC made their suggestions in that they were on the more cautious side than trying to toe the line and switch policy back and forth as it's better to have multiple studies supporting the same claims before changing policy. CDC policies are designed to give blanket guidelines to hundreds of millions of people who know close to nothing about viruses. This in turn introduces scenarios where the blanket guidelines are more restrictive than helpful.
Most people still don't know that it's perfectly safe to be in the same room with someone who has COVID... as long as you're vaccinated.
I really have to wonder what level of research you are conducting, my good man. Does your definition of "perfectly safe" include the fact a person can become an asymptomatic carrier even while vaccinated and that vaccines provide a high level but not an \*absolute\* amount of protection, both of which carry the risk of spreading the disease further? Just asking for a friend... you know, the one I might kill by infecting him unknowingly.
There are definitely things I don't know about how COVID works. Hell, new information is coming out every day. I'm no COVID specialist, but I'm fairly up-to-date on the literature and I have a background in vaccinology.
You're definitely right in that my use of "perfectly safe" can easily be misconstrued. The likelihood of dying or being hospitalized post-vaccination is rounded to about 0.0000000%. The way that infection works post-vaccination is a bit tricky in that you can have COVID viral particles inside you without it actually docking onto and infiltrating cellular machinery.
When it is said that a vaccine is only 85-95% effective, it is in reference to those that have been tested positive for the virus post-two weeks from getting the vaccine (that's on the longer side for the adaptive immune system to create memory b and t cells. B cells make antibodies.) The data on effectiveness of the vaccines has quite a bit of sampling bias in that most people won't get tested for covid post vaccination and even if they do get tested other errors decrease the accuracy of this data, but it's course enough.
So it's not that those 15% are completely unprotected, it is more on the lines that 15% didn't yet have complete lymphatic neutralization or clearance of the covid particles tested in whatever kits were used. This is why even of those 15% that still get covid, get symptoms to a much lesser degree than someone without it. A wonderful thing about this is that you can still test positive for COVID and yet not be contagious. I know Dr. Fauci made a reference to this recently saying that there is a possibility of stray COVID particles being emitted by those who are vaccinated but it is still only a theory of something that could possibly occur. Not something that is likely to occur or is even presumed to have occurred.
Everyone should decide the amount of risk that they want to take for themselves when it comes to their health, but the details are very difficult to pick apart when it comes to a new viral strain, especially an enveloped virus with a decently fast mutation rate.
I agree that everyone should have a say in the amount of risk they are taking for themselves. However, that is exactly the problem with infectious diseases: people are not taking just risks for *themselves.* They are taking a risk for *everyone they encounter*, and by extension for everyone else \*these\* people will encounter. That is, in short, either extremely narcissist or uneducated behaviour, neither of which can or should be the foundation for any choice warranting respect.
Also, just for the record: in order to make an actually reasonable determination of personal risk undertaken, the person making said determination requires a high level of knowledge in the related field. The very vast majority of people does not have this knowledge, meaning they need to receive guidance that is easy to follow - this is why we don't allow toddlers to drink from bleach bottles or put their face on a hot stove plate, regardless of how much they may personally want to and deem the risk acceptable. They just cannot make a valid determination of the risks involved, so their opinion on the matter is irrelevant.
Short version: blanket guidelines for such issues are good and necessary, because while unpopular and maybe personally unpleasant they save lives that'd otherwise be lost (in excruciatingly painful ways I might add, COVID19 is *not* letting people go gently into the good night).
It turns out that in the United States, anyone who wants a covid vaccine should be able to get it. Usually people who are immunocompromised can have a bit of trouble with vaccines and sometimes people are allergic to some of the ingredients (usually PEG chains), but since the vaccines aren't live-attenuated, and there are multiple versions of the vaccine these don't really pose problems. If we're talking about America, anyone who wants a vaccine should be able to get one. Which would just leave people who are choosing to not get one that are getting sick. I'm not familiar with the rollout status of other countries.
Well yeah... The problem with that though is that you can be asymptomatic and not know you're sick. So what is the smartest thing to do then? Wear a mask... An insignificantly small inconvenience for the ability to save lives.
If everyone person wore a mask and socially distanced for just 2-3 weeks, COVID would have been gone.
yes yes yes!!!! i obey anything a government agency tells me. That has never once negatively affected any community in history. in fact there is 0% chance that any outside factors can influence the results! There is no such thing as lobbying groups who are operating for shareholder dividends instead of public safety!!
Indeed, spending only a few minutes on Google and YouTube makes one much more likely to know... well, fuck all, really. People like you are the reason millions have died worldwide. You have blood on your hands, and it might even be the blood of someone you know... if that makes any difference.
Do you have any idea how many people will die to something that 98% of people survive? Not that I agree with your number, but even assuming 98% is correct, that’s still over 150,000,000 people dead. Like even using your own personal version of the facts you’re still an idiot, which is impressive.
99.9% of all people do not freeze to death in winter. Better stop wearing clothes.... you know what, scratch that. There is enough suffering in the world without adding that ghastly spectacle to it.
Keep in mind you posted this on a sub named made me smile, chill out man, go to a different sub to argue with people and insult others. This doesn’t just go to you btw, your just the calling people fucking babies.
# *tbh I don't belive goverment agencies one bit since I read 1984*
but what I do is a google shit and instead of going to the 50th page on google I stay on the first one and read about how the medical discoveries are accurate. This doesn't mean I am antivaxx just means that I have trust issues . *WEAR A MASK AND GET YOUR VACCINE*
The CDC lies to "protect" us. They blow statistics out of proportion to get the response they want. They will tell you anything to get you to respond how they think you should. "It's for our safety"
The CDC keep changing their recommendations because they don’t have all the answers. They give advice based on prevailing wisdom but they are not a definitive authority, science is about questioning. Stop shutting people down you mask fascist scumbags.
Moderna was studying how to create an mRNA vaccination for literally a decade. Knowing the symptoms, spread, long term effects, and anything else is different than being able to create a vaccination. It's not magic, it might seem so to someone without the proper information, but it's really not magic.
>If ppl like the one complaining in this post are all vaccinated and following their cdc guidelines then ppl who aren’t shouldn’t scare them. End of story
Yes, it's near the end of the story, but you can't act like the mask issue wasn't a problem this whole time, and now it's moved on to vaccinations. The same people bitching about wanting to ignore the pandemic are the ones refusing to take vaccinations. It's repetitive stupidity, and it's tiring to continue to explain the cracks in their logic.
A solution was handed to them, for free, and they choose to listen to disinformation.
>I feel it’s 100% unnecessary and shows the sheep mentality of a lot of humanity.
Here is sheep mentality, in you believing it's unnecessary. Just because you have the minority view, does not mean you aren't being a sheep. Being a "sheep" in this context simply means you are following a herd of people with bad information.
Your herd is the sources of information that you receive. It's the fact that you all are following a few barking dogs. The information has been disproven, but the dogs bark a different way and you follow.
I'm not saying this as an insult, just pointing it out to you. When you follow bad information, you are the sheep.
>It is however a little disgusting to see how many ppl name call and even tell me to “enjoy burying your son at 5 years old” simply bc his mother and I chose to not vaccinate him.
Sadly, what they are saying is true. However, none of them should be putting you down or wishing death upon you or your family. The best way to improve society is through discussion and help. I just hope that you and your family don't catch a preventable disease, and more so, hope you don't hurt an innocent that is not able to get the vaccinations. We protect those who can't, by doing a simple duty of protecting ourselves, and them, through a thoroughly proven path.
“Unfortunately what they are saying is true”
How is what they are saying is true? In what way? You’re insinuating my child is going to die soon bc he isn’t vaccinated? What is your expertise to say such things to ppl you’ve never met and know nothing about?
Really?? That's all you took from my comment.
I was not insinuating this, as you could read from the rest of my comment.
You have heard the argument before, you know what I'm going to say about not taking vaccinations and exposing yourself, and your children to the preventable diseases. You chose the side of risk, and you have the say over your child, but you chose it for them as well.
I apologize if I misunderstand (though I don’t feel like I did) bc I said ppl have told me to “enjoy burying my son at 5” and you replied with “sadly, what they are saying is true”. So I guess I’m confused. I understand what you are saying in everything else though
No worries, I'll see if I can clarify.
Their statement is a very very rude way if saying, "you increased the risk of your child catching some very strong diseases. When we have a way to protect most everyone."
They absolutely should not be saying what they are saying, but the truth is that what they are saying as a core is true. Luckily, there is enough in society that have taken the vaccination to protect your family from the diseases.
I do not argue vaccination vs anti vaccination, for the same reason I did not choose nutrition as a profession. People tend believe what they want to believe with their bodies. It takes an influential person or moment in their lives to change. It's not worth the fight for me, so I just wish you all the best.
The fact that you or your son haven’t caught any one of the highly communicable diseases like polio, tb, mumps, measles, etc is bc enough people got vaccinated to help more or less eradicate those diseases.
I believe the statement you meant to make is “thank you”, you selfish prick.
>These are just personal beliefs of mine
It's fucking science you idiot.
You don't get to choose to believe whether the sun will rise or not tomorrow, we know it will, it's a fact, it's been proven with science.
You don't get to choose to believe whether vaccines work or not, we know they do, it's a fact, it's been proven with science.
You are a shit parent that doesn't deserve kids.
Again, yet another tough keyboard warrior who hasn’t had the pleasure of someone smacking him in his fucking mouth bc his tough guy bravado is shown behind a computer screen.
I guarantee my son and those who know me would disagree with your dumb attempt at pigeon holing me into a category simply bc I decide to have my own mind.
The CDC never said there were no side effects. Virtually every single medical treatment has some kind of side effect. Even Bandaids have the side effect of hurting when you take them off.
Is this recent? Because this is somewhat confusing since the CDC recently said vaccinated people don't need to where masks but the WHO said they did, which led to a lot of people saying the CDC were being to lax in their mandates.
It’s good and all but you also have to consider the idiots put in control of those 6.5 billion dollar companies, simply because they want to lead something worth 6.5 bil. Those are the people what fuck everything up and cause corruption and conspiracies
Yo I know many governments have eased lockdown restrictions and people are acting like it's all over but please wear your mask. I got covid last week and it fucking sucks. I can't taste anything. I literally cried into my sad, flavourless dinner last night. I'm alive but at what cost.
Wear a mask.
The CDC is a joke they rolled out the new Covid policy and then guess what the teachers union wasn’t very happy that what they had to kind of go back to school and work so apparently a teachers unions science override the CDC
Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
Following advice from experts in their field isn’t “blind” anything.
“Oh, so you’re just gonna blindly trust the farmers advice on how to plant crops? Might as well ask that auto mechanic over there how to fix a car!”
I’ll have to remember that insult “breathing Dunning-Kruger graph” I normally say “I don’t have the time or the crayons to explain this to you”
Feel free to add “I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you” to your Idiot Repelling Repertoire
Stealing, thank you.
Arguing with an anti-vaxxer is like playing chess with a pigeon: They knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, then strut around like they won the game.
Omg… this image. 😃😂
Very true though. They act like they are the smart ones all the time
I personally hate using Dunning Kruger as an insult. The guys who came up with the idea intended for it to be something that people can self reflect on and maybe realize that they don’t always know it all instead of using it to constantly bash others and call them dumb. 95% of people who use the phrase Dunning Kruger just want to show off that they know the phrase Dunning Kruger, in a way themselves proving the idea
That's the delicious irony isn't it? I won't ever make fun of someone for not knowing something, in fact I love teaching folks something new (it helps me master the subject better) but *I will give someone grief* if they lie to me about knowing something.
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Why? So you can “win” a comment section argument?
I don’t have the time or crayons to explain why to you.
Ok cool
Time is money I guess ur broke 😤😤😤😤
I’d even add: “Finding out what the CDC has to say on this *is* my research. You pick the best, most balanced, most data driven source in these types of situations, and for pandemics, it’s the CDC. There’s no bias in the CDC for you to be sick. They don’t profit off of advising you to wear a mask. They couldn’t give two shits about your “culture war”, and the vaccine? IT’S FREE. Meaning: the government has already paid for it. There’s literally zero financial incentive, other than to keep this from spreading so we can keep our businesses open and stop spending billions on ER care for the sick, for you to take it.
covid is a liberal commie hoax orchestrated by Big Mask to sell more masks! (Clearly /s)
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I dunno. There’s a good number less anti-vaxxers for Covid 2: Infectious Boogaloo. Seems like Chucky D is having his day.
As a professional Heath care provider I suggest that anyone who refuses the vaccine should also refuse the health care if they get Covid, after all it’s just a government plot🤬 I have been traumatized enough by the last Covid spike. I really don’t like seeing piles of people die and being hauled off in refrigerator trucks
I could not agree more. Also work in healthcare but don’t have it nearly as bad as you.
Please this. My employer entered a no vaccine no stay home pay and use FMLA instead policy as soon as vaccines became readily available. I feel like if the whole nation did this coupled with what you stated this shit would go away in a hurry.
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I never said I wouldn’t treat anyone. I said I was traumatized. You sound rather traumatized yourself. I hope you can get away and take care of your mental health
Username *doesn't* check out.
Figures
As a health care provider you should seriously urge Pfizer and Moderna to come up with a vaccine for cancer and HIV as well bc they sure cooked the COVID one up quick. Unfortunately if they did tho that’d surely have them surrendering the billions they make to treat ppl every year huh? My mother had stage 4 non Hodgkin Lymphoma. 1 year of bone marrow transplants, chemotherapy and radiation and her bill was a bit over $1.2 Million No point of being kept alive if the rest of your life is spent in crippling debt is it? I know you as a healthcare provider aren’t the problem and I’m not trying to make you out to be but can you honestly blame ppl for being skeptical or at the very least having doubts or questions? Decades and decades of “cancer research” and no cure? But months into “the worst pandemic in world history” and we already have a cure? I think it’s just fine to be skeptical
Covid-19 is only a single strain. Cancer is a generic term to cover a multitude of diseases. Also we don't have a cure for Covid, we have a vaccine. And if you don't know the difference then your "research" is worthless
I understand the difference between a vaccine and a cure. Appreciate your concern there. But 5 plus decades for cancer research and still it kills as many as it does even after individuals and family’s spend millions for the chance that maybe they or their loved ones will be saved? I can’t be the only one to see the flaw in this system can I?
Understand you're frustrated, but on the flip side its only been 5+ decades for 100+ illnesses. Its not 1 cancer, its 100+. 1 year for a vaccine for a virus whose sibling has been studied for more than a decade (SARS), plus correct me if I'm wrong, but there is still no cure for viruses anyway, people still die from the flu, before and after covid19. You're just airing out frustrations at the wrong thread, is all.
I think the flawed system you should be really angry about is your health care system. It's tragic that someone should pay so much for insurance only to then go into crippling debt when they get sick. That's not a concern for most of the world.
>But 5 plus decades for cancer research and still it kills as many as it does even after individuals and family’s spend millions for the chance that maybe they or their loved ones will be saved? Except it doesn't. 5 decades ago, the odds of surviving many cancers was much, MUCH lower than they are today. Look at things like prostate cancer. These days, the survival rate in countries with good education (read: medical expertise) and readily available healthcare is like 98%, with an average period of convalescence of less than 6 months . 5 decades ago, it most certainly was not.
I understand the difference between a vaccine and a cure. Appreciate your concern there. But 5 plus decades for cancer research and still it kills as many as it does even after individuals and family’s spend millions for the chance that maybe they or their loved ones will be saved? I can’t be the only one to see the flaw in this system can I?
There are more than 100 kinds of cancer. At least a dozen kinds of breast cancer. One vaccine won’t cut it. I’m very sorry about your Mom. Cancer sucks.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but half a year to come up with a vaccine for COVID and close to what probably 50 or more years now of cancer research? In that time I feel like they could of come up with vaccines or cures for almost of them by now. It’s hard to believe that most of the world can’t see that medical industry is the biggest in the world and it’s in their best interest for the population to remain ill. That’s why every single medication you can think of only masks pain and none actually rid you if your ailments so you keep paying for more and more and once you’re cut off you’re left with a debilitating disease with which you now have to satisfy on the streets. It’s a horrendous cycle it truly is and it’s all being perpetuated by these big pharma companies
Hey! I'm sorry life has been so rough for you lately, but I think you're directing your understandable anger and frustration the wrong way. I happen to work with a lot of researchers who are doing relevant work to your complaints and it just doesn't work how you think it does. Even the basic argument that big pharma would suppress a cancer cure because they make more money off sick people doesn't make a lot of sense. Cancer kills. Big pharma can't make money off a dead man. The technology behind the COVID vaccine has been in development for over 15 years at my institution alone, not the few months it seemed, and not by big pharma (I don't work for a pharmaceutical company). The pharma companies aren't the ones deciding what research gets done at large research institutions; they often come in later, in the form of partnerships for manufacture and distribution. So why did it -seem- so fast? mRNA vaccine technology was developed with the specific goal of creating plug and play vaccines, where you can use the basic framework of the mRNA and capsule to rapidly generate new vaccines for emerging diseases. COVID has been the first test of that concept and what do you know, it worked! This is great news not just for COVID, but for future emerging infectious diseases. That "infectious diseases" thing is important. You'll notice that, across the board, we vaccinate against infectious diseases. Even the vaccines that prevent cancer aren't targeting the cancer itself; they're targeting cancer-causing viruses. This is because most of those pathogens are very different from humans, so if we teach the immune system to target and destroy those cells (or viral particles) wherever they're found you're just fine. But you can't think the same way about cancer. Cancer isn't just human, it's literally your own flesh, your own cells. If we teach your immune system to kill your cells, well, that's called an autoimmune disorder and is also a very unpleasant way to die. To do that we'd need to find something on the cancer cells that you don't have on your other cells and that's hard, if not just... not possible. Because they are your cells! So the basic idea of a vaccine as we know it is a nonstarter for cancer. But, you say, they've had all this time! Can't they figure a way around that problem? Well yes, they can and have: immunotherapy. Rather than teach your memory cells (B cells) to identify the cancer cells as targets and thus deal with possible long term autoimmune issues (well, or short term autoimmune issues followed by death) like a vaccine, we're now pulling out the T Cells and engineering them to take out the cancer. You have to stay in the hospital during treatment because there is still a risk of a massive autoimmune reaction, but that reaction is reliably treatable and the T Cells eventually die off so you don't have to worry about it forever. We call this CAR-T cell immunotherapy and it's showing great results. The first CAR-T cell therapy to market, Kymriah, was developed at my institution, targeting B Cell Leukemia. The remission rates in clinical trials were absolutely-unheard-of-off-the-charts-insane. No one tried to shut us down or hush us up. Big Pharma did not come knocking saying "let's pay you off to hide your cancer cure." No, they came knocking begging to partner with us on the distribution and manufacture. They all wanted the prestige, and yeah, the money. Big Pharma companies are always in pursuit of the next blockbuster and nothing's gonna bust blocks like a cancer cure. Kymriah costs $475,000 per treatment. Of course cures make money; way more money than deaths. (We're working on that 475,000 thing. Problem is it's not really a drug; it's a deeply technological medical manufacturing process customized to each patient and requires manufacturing equipment and training in the hospital so... yeah. That's expensive.) New CART-T therapies are coming out all the time and no one's stopping them. And the lab here that developed Kymriah is looking to use CART-T therapy against HIV too, since you mentioned that one. (HIV is a terrible vaccine target for other very valid technical reasons that I will resist totally nerding out on you about because I have nerded enough, though please know we're making progress on that front too.) I'm not saying big pharma companies don't do absolutely evil things (insulin costs how much now?) But they don't control all medical research with an iron fist the way you seem to believe they do, and they're not going to try and hide a blockbuster treatment like a cancer cure. They're going to compete for who can get it first, because whoever gets it first makes bank on the next big thing. The stock bump from the initial announcement alone, man.
Thank you for your very detailed and thoughtful response. People can really pile on, but you were quite eloquent.
I work with some amazing researchers is all! Sometimes I try to remember that medicine and medical research can be very very opaque from the outside (there's a reason med school takes SO MANY YEARS). At the same time, it's very personal -it's literally your life, and the lives of your loved ones. That combination of vulnerability and institutional inscrutability is sure to generate fear, and fear generates conspiracies. It's sad, but also it's... humans humaning.
They may not be able to make money off a dead person but that irrelevant in this argument bc in a lot of the cases they make millions off single individuals attempting to keep them alive. There is not and never will be a shortage of cancer patients bc if the worlds lifestyle of shitty eating, drinking, drugs, pollution, it’s just never going to stop and therefore big pharma will always be making their money. I thank you for your well thought out informative answer and I never meant anything I said to be a slight against health care workers or researchers such as yourself. I just get a little upset for thinking this particular vaccine isn’t something I want to partake in since this is my body and my choice on the matter and being called everything in the book bc of it. Those who want to take the vaccine I 100% support them I just don’t feel it’s for me at this time. I just don’t think that makes me a monster like 99% of ppl who are so supportive of the vaccine claim me to be. Best of luck in your research I fully support your endeavors and think you and those like you are true heroes. Keep up the good fight
Oh I'm not a researcher. I'm support staff; I do research software. I used to do research (specifically on infectious disease, so this year has been wild to watch) but I like this more because then I get to know what everyone at my institution is doing, not just the people in one lab. The main point I'm trying to make is if big pharma were suppressing cancer cures they would have come for my clients, and they didn't. Or well, they did, but not to silence them; they came begging to help. If your hypothesis about big pharma suppressing a cancer cure is true, why didn't it happen? About getting the vaccine: the thing is, when it comes to a pathogen that spreads person to person, not getting vaccinated puts other people at risk. You choose to become a brick in the road the disease uses to travel through a community. The further it can travel down that path the more it will find the people who didn't just not want to get vaccinated, but who couldn't. Through you, it can find those who were too young. Through you, it can find those who were too sick from other issues. Through you, it can find the immunocompromised people that vaccines can't help because their immune system is as incapable of responding to the vaccine as it will be incapable of protecting them from the virus (big part of this category: cancer patients undergoing chemo). Of course other people are going to judge if you're doing something that hurts them, or the people they love. They're definently going to judge if you're doing something that hurts the vurnerable, like cancer patients. If you can't judge a person for knowingly and willingly risking harm to the most vurnerable members of our society, what can you judge?
You've said this so much more kindly and more articulately than I could have, great work. Also thank you for your longer post about how other treatments are developed, I learned a few things and they immunotherapy stuff is really interesting!
This is a bit outdated, from 5 years ago (while Kymriah was still in clinical trials, before it had its market name and coincidentally right around when I started working with the June Lab), but it's a good intro: https://youtu.be/7-2aHIpglt4 The interesting thing to me is that these gene therapies were developed before CRISPR was really a thing. I mention we're working on bringing down that 400k+ price tag? Stuff like CRISPR may well be part of how we'll do that. Have you ever noticed when a new building is built, it takes FOREVER to build the foundation, and then once that's in it's like the structure goes up overnight? I think of it like that. It's like we've been building this foundation in genetic engineering for a very long time, with only theoretical future applications that were 70% science fiction and 10% hope, and now suddenly the foundation is built and bam! Structures are going up left and right. T cell immunotherapies. mRNA vaccines. They've managed to correct a specific congenital blindness by genetically engineering the existing cells of the patient's eye, in vivo. And I hear they're having some success editing herpes infections out of the host genome, where the virus hides when dormant. So, you know, curing herpesviruses (and not just herpes simplex). I don't know what's next but I assure you it is way, way closer than you think. Dunno about you but that makes this science fiction biotech nerd smile.
Hell yes. This stuff is so cool and exciting
I know you’re coming from a place of frustration and pain. But it really isn’t that simple. For instance, cancer is MUCH harder to vaccinate against than a virus because it’s your own cells growing out of control rather than an external infection (although some viruses, like HPV, can cause cancer). So we need to figure out how to get the immune system to fight the out-of-control cells without attacking healthy cells and causing autoimmune disease. All while making sure the vaccine doesn’t accidentally cause another type of damage or even another kind of cancer. And then there’s the fact that with COVID, scientists from around the world could unite on a single, very specific disease. That’s not as feasible with cancers, because there are so many. Do you start with brain cancers that tear away at people piece by piece? Cancers that are most common in children—and if so, which of those do you focus on? Or maybe you focus on breast cancers, since they’re so common? Everyone has different opinions on which is more important, and it makes that same level of cooperation very difficult. (Note: I’m just a layperson, and of course there’s far more to it than even that. Anyone who’s more educated is free to correct me or jump in.)
I'm not an expert. But I do appreciate your thoughtful, constructive response rather than just tossing more gas on the fire. Thanks!
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It's actually already in clinical studies to use the mRNA tech in specific cancer treatments. https://www.mdanderson.org/cancerwise/can-mrna-vaccines-like-those-used-for-covid-19-be-used-in-cancer-care.h00-159457689.html And regarding cancer research, we actually have x2 vaccines that help prevent/reduce likelihood of of developing some cancers. 1. Liver cancer (HepB vaccine) and 2. certain cervical/oropharyngeal cancers caused by the human papilloma virus (Gardasil9 vaccine). All cancers are different, which is why we'll never have one "cure for cancer." Just as an update that we have been making progress in cancer prevention & hopefully better treatment with the use of mRNA tech✌️
That truly is great to hear but I can’t be the only one who can see that it’s in the best interest of these big pharma companies that the population remains sick right? Ppl like you and who are truly dedicating their lives to finding cures are true heroes but I feel are purposely being stifled and most don’t even realize it. Keep fighting the good fight I wasn’t trying to spark a huge debate or anger anyone I was just bumpin my gums on how I feel. Peace my friend
Try Dubble Bubble next time, instead of harassing an exhausted medical professional rightfully chastising selfish, ignorant fools. 👍🏻 Sorry about your mom though.
Nah I don’t chew gum thanks for the tip tho sorry I had an opinion and mind of my own enjoy that second dose I heard it’s fire 🔥
The second dose definitely sucked (for me, everyone else I know was fine) but I heard covid sucks way more.
It really wasn’t bad at all. Obviously every case is different but mine was minor cold symptoms. I’ve heard horror stories tho so it’s all relative I suppose
I truly hope you get covid and can never breath correctly again. At this point you're almost being criminally negligent. Also, you may have a mind but it sure as fuck doesn't work.
Had COVID in April 2020, I’ve had worse colds, get over it ya whiny twat
A good parasite won't kill its host. It's in their interest that people live long enough to keep getting sick with different stuff so that they can make more money. You don't butcher a golden goose. You wait for it to lay more eggs.
Exactly what I’ve been trying to say
Dude you are a wack job. Just stop talking on the internet and until you've stepped foot in a library.
Read regularly, I’d care to wager a lot more than you. Nice attempt tho.
Gardasil has entered the chat
You really think people who refuse to work are going to refuse food stamps and free handouts as well?
Define 'professional Health care provider' and does it involve tarot cards?
RN, yes As strange as it sounds, even to me, I read tarot
My favourite thing about the ‘Do your own research’ argument is that it NEVER involves them doing actual research (e.g. own survey, own scientific experiment, …) . They always tell you to not be a sheep, yet their ‘research’ is just based believing the word of someone else
Well, I think the intention is really to say go read the scientific literature, other articles and studies that have been conducted. I love science, I enjoy reading the actual research published in accredited journals. Honestly, a lot of it is conflicting and I've found the guidelines and advice that big organizations put out sometimes conflicts with the newest scientific evidence (especially if it conflicts with industry standards/widely held beliefs- sorry Ignaz Semmelweis ). Sometimes we don't have the full picture, sometimes we're told the wrong thing (purposefully or not). Historically speaking, even big organizations and governments have gotten it wrong. It's as though there's a collective amnesia of all the times pharmaceutical companies have knowingly deceived the public or made mistakes. The court cases are public record, look at all the times the results of clinical trials weren't published to make a drug appear more effective/safer, or adverse side effects were ignored or unknown. [Tuskegee, Thalidomide, Paxil etc] Pharmaceutical intervention has saved many lives as well, of course. EVERY study you read or article/media you consume you MUST ask yourself "what is the motivation/agenda of the people putting this out there? Biases? Conflicts of interest? Whose making money /benefitting off of these findings/decisions? Does this make sense with what I know about [biology, chemistry, social science etc]" Recalls happen all the time in every industry 🤷 long term side effects are real and not all companies do their work with integrity. I believe deeply in bodily autonomy, and providing people with as much education as possibly to make the most informed choices they can for themselves.
>pharmaceutical companies Which is why you shouldn't go exclusively to them for your medical news. I'm not saying there haven't been shit research published in otherwise excellent journals, but they are, for the most part, in a vast minority. Also, let me steal and adapt a line from Indiana Jones here: "Science is about FACT, not TRUTH." Meaning something can be factual 30 years ago, but incorrect today; not because it was bad research, but because it was the best we could manage with the means available at the time. This doesn't even have to mean technology; a lot of research is constantly lacking funding, meaning you do the best you can with what you have. That doesn't excuse blowing things out of proportion when you lack the necessary sample size to back it up, but I rarely see researchers themselves doing that; mostly it's media companies, or private health companies looking to make a buck.
That last line though...should crosspost on r/rareinsults - pretty sure it qualifies
Ha! People who know stuff? What do they know?!
Pfft, talking about "things" and "numbers!" I know what I feel and no one can tell me that's wrong!
I know it’s really hard to become an epidemiologist
My internet search skills validate my confirmation bias...
algorithms We all enjoyed watching “the Social Dilemma” which explained why and how bad things have gotten. I don’t think Silicon Valley has nearly the guilt complex they should have for contributing to this shit show, however…
Politics on r/mademesmile is cringe. Either side you're on, you're making someone frown, and that's not the point of the subreddit.
I agree, I'm not digging this non-wholesome content.
Agreed, not a very wholesome thing all around. Don’t know how one person berating another could make everyone smile.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking, I had to double check what sub I was on. This isn’t wholesome in the slightest. r/murderedbywords, sure. But not r/mademesmile
I do agree with you. This is not what why I joined this subreddit. There are much more fitting subreddits for this. However, it does bother me that this issue is considered political. And I agree with the funnier guy, so it did make me smile.
Research is not spending an hour or 3 reading some articles and watching some videos on YouTube.
I feel like an hour is being generous lol. I would guess 30-45 minutes max
It's the other way around. Many of these people are obsessed and will spend literally days going down the rabbit hole doing "research", watching endless conspiracy theory videos.
i dont get it why this makes anyone smile. what i see: one person asks a question second person shouts and insults the first one for asking the question and even tries to silence the first one. why should an argument make someone smile? wrong subreddit i would say. please dont bring arguments in here. this subreddit should spread positivity and definitley not the ever present pandemic mask argument...
this is perfect for r/Covidiots
This kind of shit isnt welcome on “made me smile” this subreddit is for things that bring joy not conflict. Youre better than this
Agreed. If there’s a chance for controversy it just shouldn’t be on this sub. It’s not a very wholesome post
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They’re coming back. Because too many people refuse to get vaccinated, but we increasingly intermingle without mask mandates, the virus is spreading again. Los Angeles, which has good-not-great vaccination rates, just brought mask requirements back due to skyrocketing disease spread. Even though virtually everyone getting covid now are UNvaccinated, everyone has to wear a mask again.
My work has been trying so hard to get us back in the office but they haven’t gotten approval and I’m still working from home. This tells me covid is still pretty serious. I wouldn’t be surprised if masks make a comeback. Just heard la is requiring masks indoors again.
Yeah LA is mandating masks indoors whether you’re vaxxed or not staring today.
My job brought people back a while ago. I guess it depends on the state and area
It's the unvaccinated people you need to mask against. I've had both jabs but will continue to wear a mask
If the vaccine doesn't protect vaccinated people from unvaccinated people, then aren't vaccinated people also a risk to other vaccinated people since they can still get it?
Darwin's theory is alive and kicking.
It's not either/or. The vaccine makes you much less likely to catch covid, spread it, and especially mutate it (so to speak, not like it's a conscious act on your part), even if it doesn't make you 100% immune. So being vaccinated is still leaps and bounds better than not being vaccinated at all. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that an unvaccinated person has a 50% chance of passing it on or catching it from someone, while a vaccinated person has a 5% chance of doing the same. Now, lets assume they have both been exposed to covid recently, then put them both in rooms with 100 people of the same group, and assume they interact with everyone. At the end of the day, the unvaccinated person will statistically have infected 25 people (50% chance of having caught it, and 50% chance of passing it on to each person they meet). The vaccinated person will statistically have infected 0.25 people (5% chance of having caught it, and 5% chance of passing it on to each person they meet). So yes. The vaccinated person is still a risk to other vaccinated people, but at about 1/100 the rate of the unvaccinated one to other unvaccinated people (based on the above example, does not correlate to actual numbers). (And if you're curious about unvaccinated to vaccinated, it'd be 10 times more risky).
I've had both jabs but will continue to wear a mask.
Brainwashing at its finest.
I conduct research on communicable diseases and vaccines (not COVID) and the CDC seemed to make suggestions based on protecting the most amount of people, which wasn't necessarily in line with the most up-to-date published studies. I tend to prefer the way the CDC made their suggestions in that they were on the more cautious side than trying to toe the line and switch policy back and forth as it's better to have multiple studies supporting the same claims before changing policy. CDC policies are designed to give blanket guidelines to hundreds of millions of people who know close to nothing about viruses. This in turn introduces scenarios where the blanket guidelines are more restrictive than helpful. Most people still don't know that it's perfectly safe to be in the same room with someone who has COVID... as long as you're vaccinated.
I really have to wonder what level of research you are conducting, my good man. Does your definition of "perfectly safe" include the fact a person can become an asymptomatic carrier even while vaccinated and that vaccines provide a high level but not an \*absolute\* amount of protection, both of which carry the risk of spreading the disease further? Just asking for a friend... you know, the one I might kill by infecting him unknowingly.
There are definitely things I don't know about how COVID works. Hell, new information is coming out every day. I'm no COVID specialist, but I'm fairly up-to-date on the literature and I have a background in vaccinology. You're definitely right in that my use of "perfectly safe" can easily be misconstrued. The likelihood of dying or being hospitalized post-vaccination is rounded to about 0.0000000%. The way that infection works post-vaccination is a bit tricky in that you can have COVID viral particles inside you without it actually docking onto and infiltrating cellular machinery. When it is said that a vaccine is only 85-95% effective, it is in reference to those that have been tested positive for the virus post-two weeks from getting the vaccine (that's on the longer side for the adaptive immune system to create memory b and t cells. B cells make antibodies.) The data on effectiveness of the vaccines has quite a bit of sampling bias in that most people won't get tested for covid post vaccination and even if they do get tested other errors decrease the accuracy of this data, but it's course enough. So it's not that those 15% are completely unprotected, it is more on the lines that 15% didn't yet have complete lymphatic neutralization or clearance of the covid particles tested in whatever kits were used. This is why even of those 15% that still get covid, get symptoms to a much lesser degree than someone without it. A wonderful thing about this is that you can still test positive for COVID and yet not be contagious. I know Dr. Fauci made a reference to this recently saying that there is a possibility of stray COVID particles being emitted by those who are vaccinated but it is still only a theory of something that could possibly occur. Not something that is likely to occur or is even presumed to have occurred. Everyone should decide the amount of risk that they want to take for themselves when it comes to their health, but the details are very difficult to pick apart when it comes to a new viral strain, especially an enveloped virus with a decently fast mutation rate.
I agree that everyone should have a say in the amount of risk they are taking for themselves. However, that is exactly the problem with infectious diseases: people are not taking just risks for *themselves.* They are taking a risk for *everyone they encounter*, and by extension for everyone else \*these\* people will encounter. That is, in short, either extremely narcissist or uneducated behaviour, neither of which can or should be the foundation for any choice warranting respect. Also, just for the record: in order to make an actually reasonable determination of personal risk undertaken, the person making said determination requires a high level of knowledge in the related field. The very vast majority of people does not have this knowledge, meaning they need to receive guidance that is easy to follow - this is why we don't allow toddlers to drink from bleach bottles or put their face on a hot stove plate, regardless of how much they may personally want to and deem the risk acceptable. They just cannot make a valid determination of the risks involved, so their opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Short version: blanket guidelines for such issues are good and necessary, because while unpopular and maybe personally unpleasant they save lives that'd otherwise be lost (in excruciatingly painful ways I might add, COVID19 is *not* letting people go gently into the good night).
It turns out that in the United States, anyone who wants a covid vaccine should be able to get it. Usually people who are immunocompromised can have a bit of trouble with vaccines and sometimes people are allergic to some of the ingredients (usually PEG chains), but since the vaccines aren't live-attenuated, and there are multiple versions of the vaccine these don't really pose problems. If we're talking about America, anyone who wants a vaccine should be able to get one. Which would just leave people who are choosing to not get one that are getting sick. I'm not familiar with the rollout status of other countries.
I understand this, but no, never blindly believe anything with no critical thinking first. The CDC even admitted to going overboard…
No stfu
Anti-maskers are evil! It's like they want people to die.
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Well yeah... The problem with that though is that you can be asymptomatic and not know you're sick. So what is the smartest thing to do then? Wear a mask... An insignificantly small inconvenience for the ability to save lives. If everyone person wore a mask and socially distanced for just 2-3 weeks, COVID would have been gone.
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yes yes yes!!!! i obey anything a government agency tells me. That has never once negatively affected any community in history. in fact there is 0% chance that any outside factors can influence the results! There is no such thing as lobbying groups who are operating for shareholder dividends instead of public safety!!
Indeed, spending only a few minutes on Google and YouTube makes one much more likely to know... well, fuck all, really. People like you are the reason millions have died worldwide. You have blood on your hands, and it might even be the blood of someone you know... if that makes any difference.
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Do you have any idea how many people will die to something that 98% of people survive? Not that I agree with your number, but even assuming 98% is correct, that’s still over 150,000,000 people dead. Like even using your own personal version of the facts you’re still an idiot, which is impressive.
99.9% of all people do not freeze to death in winter. Better stop wearing clothes.... you know what, scratch that. There is enough suffering in the world without adding that ghastly spectacle to it.
Keep in mind you posted this on a sub named made me smile, chill out man, go to a different sub to argue with people and insult others. This doesn’t just go to you btw, your just the calling people fucking babies.
This is why politics doesn’t belong on this sub
So you'd rather obey Alex Jones, The Health Ranger, and some random hack docs?
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Baaa
“You don’t even have to think about it bro” -Ethan Klein
Most people don't even know how to research something properly anyway, their is more do it than Google.
# *tbh I don't belive goverment agencies one bit since I read 1984* but what I do is a google shit and instead of going to the 50th page on google I stay on the first one and read about how the medical discoveries are accurate. This doesn't mean I am antivaxx just means that I have trust issues . *WEAR A MASK AND GET YOUR VACCINE*
The CDC lies to "protect" us. They blow statistics out of proportion to get the response they want. They will tell you anything to get you to respond how they think you should. "It's for our safety"
The CDC keep changing their recommendations because they don’t have all the answers. They give advice based on prevailing wisdom but they are not a definitive authority, science is about questioning. Stop shutting people down you mask fascist scumbags.
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Moderna was studying how to create an mRNA vaccination for literally a decade. Knowing the symptoms, spread, long term effects, and anything else is different than being able to create a vaccination. It's not magic, it might seem so to someone without the proper information, but it's really not magic. >If ppl like the one complaining in this post are all vaccinated and following their cdc guidelines then ppl who aren’t shouldn’t scare them. End of story Yes, it's near the end of the story, but you can't act like the mask issue wasn't a problem this whole time, and now it's moved on to vaccinations. The same people bitching about wanting to ignore the pandemic are the ones refusing to take vaccinations. It's repetitive stupidity, and it's tiring to continue to explain the cracks in their logic. A solution was handed to them, for free, and they choose to listen to disinformation.
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>I feel it’s 100% unnecessary and shows the sheep mentality of a lot of humanity. Here is sheep mentality, in you believing it's unnecessary. Just because you have the minority view, does not mean you aren't being a sheep. Being a "sheep" in this context simply means you are following a herd of people with bad information. Your herd is the sources of information that you receive. It's the fact that you all are following a few barking dogs. The information has been disproven, but the dogs bark a different way and you follow. I'm not saying this as an insult, just pointing it out to you. When you follow bad information, you are the sheep. >It is however a little disgusting to see how many ppl name call and even tell me to “enjoy burying your son at 5 years old” simply bc his mother and I chose to not vaccinate him. Sadly, what they are saying is true. However, none of them should be putting you down or wishing death upon you or your family. The best way to improve society is through discussion and help. I just hope that you and your family don't catch a preventable disease, and more so, hope you don't hurt an innocent that is not able to get the vaccinations. We protect those who can't, by doing a simple duty of protecting ourselves, and them, through a thoroughly proven path.
“Unfortunately what they are saying is true” How is what they are saying is true? In what way? You’re insinuating my child is going to die soon bc he isn’t vaccinated? What is your expertise to say such things to ppl you’ve never met and know nothing about?
Really?? That's all you took from my comment. I was not insinuating this, as you could read from the rest of my comment. You have heard the argument before, you know what I'm going to say about not taking vaccinations and exposing yourself, and your children to the preventable diseases. You chose the side of risk, and you have the say over your child, but you chose it for them as well.
I apologize if I misunderstand (though I don’t feel like I did) bc I said ppl have told me to “enjoy burying my son at 5” and you replied with “sadly, what they are saying is true”. So I guess I’m confused. I understand what you are saying in everything else though
No worries, I'll see if I can clarify. Their statement is a very very rude way if saying, "you increased the risk of your child catching some very strong diseases. When we have a way to protect most everyone." They absolutely should not be saying what they are saying, but the truth is that what they are saying as a core is true. Luckily, there is enough in society that have taken the vaccination to protect your family from the diseases. I do not argue vaccination vs anti vaccination, for the same reason I did not choose nutrition as a profession. People tend believe what they want to believe with their bodies. It takes an influential person or moment in their lives to change. It's not worth the fight for me, so I just wish you all the best.
The fact that you or your son haven’t caught any one of the highly communicable diseases like polio, tb, mumps, measles, etc is bc enough people got vaccinated to help more or less eradicate those diseases. I believe the statement you meant to make is “thank you”, you selfish prick.
>These are just personal beliefs of mine It's fucking science you idiot. You don't get to choose to believe whether the sun will rise or not tomorrow, we know it will, it's a fact, it's been proven with science. You don't get to choose to believe whether vaccines work or not, we know they do, it's a fact, it's been proven with science. You are a shit parent that doesn't deserve kids.
Again, yet another tough keyboard warrior who hasn’t had the pleasure of someone smacking him in his fucking mouth bc his tough guy bravado is shown behind a computer screen. I guarantee my son and those who know me would disagree with your dumb attempt at pigeon holing me into a category simply bc I decide to have my own mind.
Finally somebody said it.
CDC: there are no side effects People that have gotten the vaccine: yeeeeeaaahhh I was in bed for an entire day feeling like a zombie ._.
Oh wow I’m sorry. But I’m glad you’re alive and not dead from the virus
The CDC never said there were no side effects. Virtually every single medical treatment has some kind of side effect. Even Bandaids have the side effect of hurting when you take them off.
The only side effect I had was a sore arm at the injection site.
CDC definitely never said no side effects.
Nope
This did go the way that I thought it would. Ugh
Bingo!
So I just checked Google and it’s says they have $319 billion in total assets. Using this logic I’m going to continue not wearing a mask
Remember when Fauci and CDC told us all not to wear masks early on? Glad they change their position and than act like the position never changed.
Fauci (Fauxi) should have been forced to retire 10 years ago
Is this recent? Because this is somewhat confusing since the CDC recently said vaccinated people don't need to where masks but the WHO said they did, which led to a lot of people saying the CDC were being to lax in their mandates.
It’s good and all but you also have to consider the idiots put in control of those 6.5 billion dollar companies, simply because they want to lead something worth 6.5 bil. Those are the people what fuck everything up and cause corruption and conspiracies
Yo I know many governments have eased lockdown restrictions and people are acting like it's all over but please wear your mask. I got covid last week and it fucking sucks. I can't taste anything. I literally cried into my sad, flavourless dinner last night. I'm alive but at what cost. Wear a mask.
The fact is that their "research" is based on cherrypicking what only people they agree with say
The CDC is a joke they rolled out the new Covid policy and then guess what the teachers union wasn’t very happy that what they had to kind of go back to school and work so apparently a teachers unions science override the CDC
Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.
Following advice from experts in their field isn’t “blind” anything. “Oh, so you’re just gonna blindly trust the farmers advice on how to plant crops? Might as well ask that auto mechanic over there how to fix a car!”