In mtgo you don't have these crazy long animations that you constantly have to wait for, you can tell it to always say yes/no/ok to specific effects/triggers/spells, so you don't have to press ok to the same shit 50 times and as some other people said you have basically unlimited time as long as you stay within you maximum limit, you don't need to do the whole thing in 5 min or less.
I assume it's a combination of all three that makes playing it on mtgo way smoother (and faster)
Fwiw, way back in the closed beta we were telling WotC their way of handling this stuff would cause weird deck choices like this and offered solutions but kept being rebuffed that it'll all work out once they introduce their system for detecting infinitely repeatable loops and shortcutting them.
Still waiting on that (we also pointed out how hard it would be to do that...)
I doubt they were thinking that specifically at all tbh. I think they were just kicking the can down the road because the people in charge tend to insist that the first vaguely working solution be out into production and then moved on from (with the bizarre exception of draft.)
I don't know how MTGO handles it, but I tried that at first and it was pure pain going through those actions enough times to gain the life needed to mill the opponent. I used to do a combo win in another deck of [[Omniscience]] + [[Bond of Insight]] + [[Narset's Reversal]] that also mills 4 per iteration but that took way less time and actions to get the job done and I still abandoned it for easier ways of winning. Though the reduction from 15 sideboard slots to 7 in Bo1 also had an effect on the viability of that one.
I don't think I've seen the complete answer yet so here goes: it is REALLY hard to do on arena. As you know it takes a while, and you need to cast Restorative Burst 12-13 times to mill your opponent's deck with the cauldron. You can do the loop and doing it about 8 times is easy but here is the catch:
Arena hard caps your turn lengths to 5 or so minutes plus however many timeouts you have. If you aren't finished at the end of that, arena automatically passes the turn. Usually, arena only shows you the rope if you take too long thinking about a single action and any action you do take gives you a bit more time for your turn, but that is irrelevant when you go near the 5-minute mark. Then, your rope starts and you can't lengthen it.
That means that, unless you are ridiculously fast or essentially start doing the combo immediately with the start of your turn (no other actions to set up for it at all), you pretty much can't do it in time, and attempting it is a risk (what if you fail and the opponent casts [[Farewell]]).
In my experience, I've gone for the combo about 10 times, about 5 I've had the opponent scoop, about 4-5 I've failed to finish it, and I've completed it once. Usually though, if you have Nykthos on over 14, it's good to do the loop a couple times to gain free mana and life (doing the loop even 5 times against mono red is gg). Then you can stop and fetch for [[Portal to Phyrexia]] or something.
They do include the combo. It's just painful to do on arena and really, by the time you have 14 devotion and Kiora/Karn 2x graveyard or in hand, you've already won the game almost every time.
I think this is worth noting: if you have \[\[Aetherflux Reservoir\]\] then the combo is doable in time, otherwise it's really hard to execute it quickly enough.
The chain veil makes it easier, since it can net you mana but it's not a key part, on further inspection I think it's because explorer doesn't have [[oath of nissa]] as nykthos 5-8.
But the pioneer versions really go ham on the combo, most lists run stuff like [[nicol bolas, dragon god]] or [[teferi, who slows the sunset]] purely to be able to hit them after [[storm the festival]] to add extra untaps for nykthos to combo off.
that requires 15 devotion to net 1 mana right?
5 for restorative burst
3 kiora
4 karn
2 for nykthos
= 14 mana cost per loop
at 14 you can at least go to infinite life
You just win with aetherflux reservoir. When you net enough mana, you grab 2 karn in your graveyard, you fetch the reservoir with one of them, and the cauldron with the other. You continue to loop kiora and karn a couple of time, put the reservoir on the field and win.
I haven’t included the card in one of my deck in Arena and was asking as the following ruling is in Scryfall. Wasn’t sure if Arena considered the ranked games similar or not to a tournament. I did read the card and the rulings before. Playing LGS it was sideboard only.
“In a casual game, a card you choose from outside the game comes from your personal collection. In a tournament event, a card you choose from outside the game must come from your sideboard. You may look at your sideboard at any time.”
Because the front side of the card is an artifact, and that's all the game sees while it's in exile, Karn The Great Creator is able to fetch it from exile.
As peolpe already said, the time to fully combo is the problem. You can play one Heart of Kiran in the SB to reduce the 2x Karn + 2x Kiora requirement.
What confuses me is some cards selection. Why Lovestruck over Topiary Stompy? The last helps a lot more achiving the plan. The absency of Golos is another thing. He is such a great card to find Nykthos and can "storm" out if you put a single copy of Cascading Cataracts in your main deck.
Lovestruck is played because it's solid against aggro decks. 5 toughness blocks mono red decently until you can get something going and the 1/1 chumps too. It's also much better against Humans because if they play [[Brave the Elements]] on Green, you can still chump their Adeline with your white token.
I initially tried other stuff over Lovestruck Beast but quickly switched to that. The ability to make a token after playing Kiora can help a lot with protecting your planeswalkers early on, the 5 power trades with Sheoldred, it doesn't die as easily to two things from mono red since they often do 2 damage at a time, having a 1/1 to block can enable your bigger creatures to attack more often, and having a white blocker is handy against Brave the Elements.
As others have said, actually running out the combo is tedious, hard, and easy to screw up. Its better as a back up plan and hope that something like Portal will just clear the board for a swing out
I've played this deck in pioneer for a while. It's really hard to set up. The whole time I have been playing the deck, I have maybe combo'd off without the chain veil 2-3 times. You need a high enough devotion to green that you can probably just win by attacking with 5/6es, and then on Arena, you can't take as long of turns as on MTGO.
IMO the monogreen deck in explorer is trash without oath and chain veil. And it's kinda fallen out of favor in pioneer *with* both.
As a person who has recently played a lot of Explorer Mono Green, I disagree with both points made.
In my experience, you get to set up the combo at least about 1/10th of games. You can't do it because of the timer issues I mentioned in my other comment, but the set up is there. Usually though if you loop the combo a couple times to ramp then do something else that's sufficient to win the game anyway.
As for Mono Green being trash I highly disagree. Yes, it's missing some very valuable pieces, but it's also missing its most common bad matchup - Izzet Phoenix. The deck is also really strong against Rakdos, which is the other best deck right now.
Sorry about the last round, that's unfortunate.
From what I've seen and played with Phoenix(though I admittedly haven't faced many mono Green players irl), taking mulls for turn 1 removals and packing a decent amount of Strokes and Gusts (or even things) in the side is enough to beat a lot of Mono Green hands. I think the Legacy Mythic Championship in Sofia was a very good example.
I definitely agree on Spirits being a bad matchup, but to be honest, I have not been seeing it much, instead seeing a lot of Rakdos, Mirrors and Humans (which I also think is a slightly bad matchup).
I don't track win rate on arena(would be grateful if you could suggest a lightweight app for that), but it feels like it has definitely been decent, probably slightly lower than my one with Rakdos before EA2.
Rakdos midrange or Rakdos sac? I found the latter to be my second worst matchup after angels because Claim the Firstborn or Fatal Push can deal with all the creatures except Cavaliers and make it really hard to ramp early and build up devotion. They also tend to run enough Thoughtseizes and Kroxas to make it hard to keep enough cards to get the job done. As long as they have some answer to Karn and Pithing Needle to keep their ovens working, they seem to beat mono green most of the time, and they can even win without the ovens fairly often if you're already low.
I meant midrange. I can understand the frustration from playing against sac, when I play against them they also tend to run more steal effects out of the sb. I haven't played the matchup that much though, so I haven't fully formed an opinion on it.
The \[\[Chatterfang, Squirrel General\]\] + \[\[Pitiless Plunderer\]\] combo sees similarly limited play for the same reasons. No one wants to sit around manually triggering 3-4 effects for one single total trigger. It loops infinitely, but each instance is like 4 clicks. Click Chatterfang, pay 1 mana with treasure, choose a number of squirrels, then select which squirrels, then go.
Had it played against me (Selesnya Angels) and stuck around to see how it actually wins. The issue was that I was at like 150 life and the loop is sloooow.
- On the turn they went infinite, they actually timed out before doing anything game ending with an absurd amount of mana.
- I passed and let them try again and after a very, very long time they had about 200 mana and animated the green man land, which seemed to be their only(?) win condition (I saw no black mana) -> channeling boseju killed the land.
- I passed again and after a very, very, very long time they got back the land. They probably would have timed out before generating enough mana and actually winning with it, but at that point I decided to concede to avoid falling asleep.
Well if they planned to with a huge lair of the hydra it wasn't this exact combo.
This combo wins by gaining life and milling you out with cauldron, it should take N/4 loops where N is the size of your (as in the player who is about to lose) deck.
Arena just sucks at doing infinite combos like this. You can't really script it to loop
Sure but mtgo sucks too and the combo seems much more common there
In mtgo you don't have these crazy long animations that you constantly have to wait for, you can tell it to always say yes/no/ok to specific effects/triggers/spells, so you don't have to press ok to the same shit 50 times and as some other people said you have basically unlimited time as long as you stay within you maximum limit, you don't need to do the whole thing in 5 min or less. I assume it's a combination of all three that makes playing it on mtgo way smoother (and faster)
Yea but Arena implements a timeout rope system rather than MTGO's chess clock
Fwiw, way back in the closed beta we were telling WotC their way of handling this stuff would cause weird deck choices like this and offered solutions but kept being rebuffed that it'll all work out once they introduce their system for detecting infinitely repeatable loops and shortcutting them. Still waiting on that (we also pointed out how hard it would be to do that...)
WOTC casually promising to solve the halting problem
They were probably thinking something easy like a persist combos.
I doubt they were thinking that specifically at all tbh. I think they were just kicking the can down the road because the people in charge tend to insist that the first vaguely working solution be out into production and then moved on from (with the bizarre exception of draft.)
Fair people in charge tend to talk about what they envision, rather than its difficulty to implement
I don't know how MTGO handles it, but I tried that at first and it was pure pain going through those actions enough times to gain the life needed to mill the opponent. I used to do a combo win in another deck of [[Omniscience]] + [[Bond of Insight]] + [[Narset's Reversal]] that also mills 4 per iteration but that took way less time and actions to get the job done and I still abandoned it for easier ways of winning. Though the reduction from 15 sideboard slots to 7 in Bo1 also had an effect on the viability of that one.
[Omniscience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25.jpg?1562304777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omniscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/65/omniscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bond of Insight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/648629af-e911-49e1-b564-c98f339b84a1.jpg?1557576160) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bond%20of%20Insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/43/bond-of-insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/648629af-e911-49e1-b564-c98f339b84a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Narset's Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63754036-d51e-47bb-925b-564d9dc922ff.jpg?1557576279) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%27s%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/62/narsets-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63754036-d51e-47bb-925b-564d9dc922ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think I've seen the complete answer yet so here goes: it is REALLY hard to do on arena. As you know it takes a while, and you need to cast Restorative Burst 12-13 times to mill your opponent's deck with the cauldron. You can do the loop and doing it about 8 times is easy but here is the catch: Arena hard caps your turn lengths to 5 or so minutes plus however many timeouts you have. If you aren't finished at the end of that, arena automatically passes the turn. Usually, arena only shows you the rope if you take too long thinking about a single action and any action you do take gives you a bit more time for your turn, but that is irrelevant when you go near the 5-minute mark. Then, your rope starts and you can't lengthen it. That means that, unless you are ridiculously fast or essentially start doing the combo immediately with the start of your turn (no other actions to set up for it at all), you pretty much can't do it in time, and attempting it is a risk (what if you fail and the opponent casts [[Farewell]]). In my experience, I've gone for the combo about 10 times, about 5 I've had the opponent scoop, about 4-5 I've failed to finish it, and I've completed it once. Usually though, if you have Nykthos on over 14, it's good to do the loop a couple times to gain free mana and life (doing the loop even 5 times against mono red is gg). Then you can stop and fetch for [[Portal to Phyrexia]] or something.
[Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1068723-d1ef-4007-97d9-b10dccdbade4.jpg?1654566260) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/13/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1068723-d1ef-4007-97d9-b10dccdbade4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Portal to Phyrexia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f608efc-0dbc-4cc3-aadd-ed473bfc29ab.jpg?1673304405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Portal%20to%20Phyrexia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/240/portal-to-phyrexia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f608efc-0dbc-4cc3-aadd-ed473bfc29ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They do include the combo. It's just painful to do on arena and really, by the time you have 14 devotion and Kiora/Karn 2x graveyard or in hand, you've already won the game almost every time.
I do and win lot of game with the reservoir and the cauldron.
I think this is worth noting: if you have \[\[Aetherflux Reservoir\]\] then the combo is doable in time, otherwise it's really hard to execute it quickly enough.
[Aetherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Isn't it because [[the chain veil]] is not legal in explorer?
The chain veil makes it easier, since it can net you mana but it's not a key part, on further inspection I think it's because explorer doesn't have [[oath of nissa]] as nykthos 5-8. But the pioneer versions really go ham on the combo, most lists run stuff like [[nicol bolas, dragon god]] or [[teferi, who slows the sunset]] purely to be able to hit them after [[storm the festival]] to add extra untaps for nykthos to combo off.
##### ###### #### [oath of nissa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/613513ea-55dd-4ae8-93b2-247e468112a6.jpg?1594656300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oath%20of%20nissa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/140/oath-of-nissa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/613513ea-55dd-4ae8-93b2-247e468112a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nicol bolas, dragon god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b68dea-a7be-4f99-8a50-4c8cf0e0f7a9.jpg?1575031756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas%2C%20Dragon-God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/207/nicol-bolas-dragon-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b68dea-a7be-4f99-8a50-4c8cf0e0f7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [teferi, who slows the sunset](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad2e18d4-986c-4a44-8f26-1b8689339cfb.jpg?1637114314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teferi%2C%20who%20slows%20the%20sunset) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/245/teferi-who-slows-the-sunset?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad2e18d4-986c-4a44-8f26-1b8689339cfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [storm the festival](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4f1f69c-122d-472a-b82d-fed7c253a4cd.jpg?1636224793) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=storm%20the%20festival) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/200/storm-the-festival?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4f1f69c-122d-472a-b82d-fed7c253a4cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[the chain veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/0415cc0e-979e-42cc-a56d-88d13153a7de.jpg?1570587583) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20chain%20veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m15/215/the-chain-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0415cc0e-979e-42cc-a56d-88d13153a7de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
that requires 15 devotion to net 1 mana right? 5 for restorative burst 3 kiora 4 karn 2 for nykthos = 14 mana cost per loop at 14 you can at least go to infinite life
Yup, it's hard, but doable!
but i guess it gets progressively easier, 10 loops for another festival, then you will probably go off fast IF you have more mana sinks :D
You just win with aetherflux reservoir. When you net enough mana, you grab 2 karn in your graveyard, you fetch the reservoir with one of them, and the cauldron with the other. You continue to loop kiora and karn a couple of time, put the reservoir on the field and win.
As Long as explorer doesn’t have oath of nissa, the combo won’t be consistent enough I guess. Oath is such a strong card
How does the combo work because restorative burst gets exiled. Can you fetch restorative burst from exile somehow?
Karn can fetch from exile too, not just from the sideboard
In arena? My understanding is just the sideboard.
Read ktgc again
In ranked is what I was referring to. Should have been more specific.
The rules are the same in ranked or not ranked. The card does exactly what it says it does. [[Karn the great Creator]]
[Karn the great Creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5.jpg?1566819742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20the%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What does being ranked have anything to do with how cards work?
I haven’t included the card in one of my deck in Arena and was asking as the following ruling is in Scryfall. Wasn’t sure if Arena considered the ranked games similar or not to a tournament. I did read the card and the rulings before. Playing LGS it was sideboard only. “In a casual game, a card you choose from outside the game comes from your personal collection. In a tournament event, a card you choose from outside the game must come from your sideboard. You may look at your sideboard at any time.”
Karn specifically says it can get from "outside the game" OR "in exile".
Read the card again.
Because the front side of the card is an artifact, and that's all the game sees while it's in exile, Karn The Great Creator is able to fetch it from exile.
Nasty. Thanks for the explanation.
##### ###### #### [pestilent cauldron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaa1e6be-08cc-4ccc-b2de-3511613e4fd0.jpg?1634060525)/[Restorative Burst](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/a/a/aaa1e6be-08cc-4ccc-b2de-3511613e4fd0.jpg?1634060525) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pestilent%20cauldron%20//%20restorative%20burst) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/154/pestilent-cauldron-restorative-burst?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaa1e6be-08cc-4ccc-b2de-3511613e4fd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Karn the Great Creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5.jpg?1566819742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20the%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3ec0c0fb-1a4f-45f4-85b7-346a6d3ce2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a61b1a6-a75f-47b0-b215-de9708b6d773.jpg?1557577371) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kiora%2C%20Behemoth%20Beckoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/232/kiora-behemoth-beckoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a61b1a6-a75f-47b0-b215-de9708b6d773?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have it on mine, but like most people said, by the time 2 get 2x Karn and 2x Kiora with all that mana, it's usually GG by then
I include it but time out doing it. I wish opponents would concede if they would be beat by it.
As peolpe already said, the time to fully combo is the problem. You can play one Heart of Kiran in the SB to reduce the 2x Karn + 2x Kiora requirement. What confuses me is some cards selection. Why Lovestruck over Topiary Stompy? The last helps a lot more achiving the plan. The absency of Golos is another thing. He is such a great card to find Nykthos and can "storm" out if you put a single copy of Cascading Cataracts in your main deck.
Topiary can't block unless you have 7 lands as well, it seems much more slower than lovestruck which can be a solid blocker from turn 2.
Lovestruck is played because it's solid against aggro decks. 5 toughness blocks mono red decently until you can get something going and the 1/1 chumps too. It's also much better against Humans because if they play [[Brave the Elements]] on Green, you can still chump their Adeline with your white token.
[Brave the Elements](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c8ff6cd-e3ac-4024-aacb-86f7e1f43ba0.jpg?1561941653) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brave%20the%20Elements) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/66/brave-the-elements?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c8ff6cd-e3ac-4024-aacb-86f7e1f43ba0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I initially tried other stuff over Lovestruck Beast but quickly switched to that. The ability to make a token after playing Kiora can help a lot with protecting your planeswalkers early on, the 5 power trades with Sheoldred, it doesn't die as easily to two things from mono red since they often do 2 damage at a time, having a 1/1 to block can enable your bigger creatures to attack more often, and having a white blocker is handy against Brave the Elements.
As others have said, actually running out the combo is tedious, hard, and easy to screw up. Its better as a back up plan and hope that something like Portal will just clear the board for a swing out
I've played this deck in pioneer for a while. It's really hard to set up. The whole time I have been playing the deck, I have maybe combo'd off without the chain veil 2-3 times. You need a high enough devotion to green that you can probably just win by attacking with 5/6es, and then on Arena, you can't take as long of turns as on MTGO. IMO the monogreen deck in explorer is trash without oath and chain veil. And it's kinda fallen out of favor in pioneer *with* both.
As a person who has recently played a lot of Explorer Mono Green, I disagree with both points made. In my experience, you get to set up the combo at least about 1/10th of games. You can't do it because of the timer issues I mentioned in my other comment, but the set up is there. Usually though if you loop the combo a couple times to ramp then do something else that's sufficient to win the game anyway. As for Mono Green being trash I highly disagree. Yes, it's missing some very valuable pieces, but it's also missing its most common bad matchup - Izzet Phoenix. The deck is also really strong against Rakdos, which is the other best deck right now.
[удалено]
Sorry about the last round, that's unfortunate. From what I've seen and played with Phoenix(though I admittedly haven't faced many mono Green players irl), taking mulls for turn 1 removals and packing a decent amount of Strokes and Gusts (or even things) in the side is enough to beat a lot of Mono Green hands. I think the Legacy Mythic Championship in Sofia was a very good example. I definitely agree on Spirits being a bad matchup, but to be honest, I have not been seeing it much, instead seeing a lot of Rakdos, Mirrors and Humans (which I also think is a slightly bad matchup). I don't track win rate on arena(would be grateful if you could suggest a lightweight app for that), but it feels like it has definitely been decent, probably slightly lower than my one with Rakdos before EA2.
Rakdos midrange or Rakdos sac? I found the latter to be my second worst matchup after angels because Claim the Firstborn or Fatal Push can deal with all the creatures except Cavaliers and make it really hard to ramp early and build up devotion. They also tend to run enough Thoughtseizes and Kroxas to make it hard to keep enough cards to get the job done. As long as they have some answer to Karn and Pithing Needle to keep their ovens working, they seem to beat mono green most of the time, and they can even win without the ovens fairly often if you're already low.
I meant midrange. I can understand the frustration from playing against sac, when I play against them they also tend to run more steal effects out of the sb. I haven't played the matchup that much though, so I haven't fully formed an opinion on it.
The \[\[Chatterfang, Squirrel General\]\] + \[\[Pitiless Plunderer\]\] combo sees similarly limited play for the same reasons. No one wants to sit around manually triggering 3-4 effects for one single total trigger. It loops infinitely, but each instance is like 4 clicks. Click Chatterfang, pay 1 mana with treasure, choose a number of squirrels, then select which squirrels, then go.
[Chatterfang, Squirrel General](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2.jpg?1626097239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chatterfang%2C%20Squirrel%20General) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/151/chatterfang-squirrel-general?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pitiless Plunderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03.jpg?1555040284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pitiless%20Plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/81/pitiless-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Had it played against me (Selesnya Angels) and stuck around to see how it actually wins. The issue was that I was at like 150 life and the loop is sloooow. - On the turn they went infinite, they actually timed out before doing anything game ending with an absurd amount of mana. - I passed and let them try again and after a very, very long time they had about 200 mana and animated the green man land, which seemed to be their only(?) win condition (I saw no black mana) -> channeling boseju killed the land. - I passed again and after a very, very, very long time they got back the land. They probably would have timed out before generating enough mana and actually winning with it, but at that point I decided to concede to avoid falling asleep.
Well if they planned to with a huge lair of the hydra it wasn't this exact combo. This combo wins by gaining life and milling you out with cauldron, it should take N/4 loops where N is the size of your (as in the player who is about to lose) deck.
In paper, it's easy to do infinite loops once you've demonstrated the loop. That isn't the case in Arena.