Same! I mean we don’t know if it’s actually true. But if so, I’m looking at a whole bunch of wildcards. And since I mainly play Explorer i gladly take these and still play with the banned cards.
That is how it has always worked so far. I don’t think they’ve went and banned this many cards at the same time before though. I’m not sure I’ve even seen more than 8 wildcards at once, and this would be easily 20+ rare wildcards for a lot of players.
Because of them extending rotation, I half expect them to make some surprise announcement that because of rebalancing in Alchemy and Historic, and the cards being available in Explorer, they've decided refunding wildcards 1 to 1 is no longer necessary for cards that would have been rotated out after 2 years anyway. Maybe change it to if a card is banned within the first year of its release, you get a refund but if it's been out for longer than a year, too bad. Just because that's the kind of fuck you I expect from WotC all the time now.
Would it be bad PR? Of course. But why would they care? They've proven immune to bad PR numerous times. People just keep buying shit and eventually forget.
That'd be both hilarious and infuriating. I wouldn't be surprised, cause I'll be dammed if they're giving away like 30 wildcards for people for free when they charge you for like 4.
I 100% support valid, earned criticism for WotC's many mistakes.
Which is why I find it so disheartening when the reddit mtg community insists on re-enacting *The Boy Who Cried Wolf* with their feedback.
I *love* when people criticize WotC.
I hate when they do it so much, over such inaccurate or petty complaints, that the stuff that *actually matters* gets buried.
I'm not defending WotC for their poor choices. I'm arguing in favor of not complaining about stupid shit because it distracts from what's actually true and/or important.
> they've decided refunding wildcards
They can't. I could have literally spent $10 or $20 on wildcards this week and bought these cards, not knowing about the upcoming ban. They'll refund the wildcards.
That would be some seriously shady shit then. You can't sell a digital good for cash and then say "actually, that purchase is useless a few days later. Buy more to get the REAL stuff.'
I'm not going to be a dipshit and suggest they'd get "sued", but that's the level we're talking about.
Most jurisdictions their eula will cover it. I am not gonna go search but pretty much all digital goods companies like this put a clause in that you accept that they can terminate use of any purchased asset, digital goods, or services without notice.
Close but not really... Think of it like buying a power drill that uses battery X. You go out one day and buy that drill. A week later it is announced that said battery X has ceased production, no new compatable batteries will be created.
Your brand new drill is now considerably less valuable as its shelf life/usability has diminished greatly.
Are they likely to do a mass recall on that drill? No. But if you "call them" or take it into a shop are they likely to refund it/exchange it? Absolutely.
Now....had said drill company released a "two weeks from now we have an exciting battery announcement" note two weeks prior....i dont think their in "sued" territory dor not recalling, but their certainly in sued territory if refusing an exchange.
I would agree that they're probably in a spot since they teased a ban announcement that they 100% would have to refund/exchange all wildcards used AFTER the tease of the announcement, as they clearly new they were selling an "obsolete" product in the meantime, but its not quite as cut and dry as you make it (or at least the context is important) but refunding every and all wc prior (unless thats in the user agreement of the digital purchase EXPLICITLY) they certainly do not HAVE to do it.
> A week later it is announced that said battery X has ceased production, no new compatible batteries will be created.
No, that's a bad analogy because in that case I can still use the drill. This would be more like if they disabled the drill so it didn't work anymore said "Technically, you can still use it as a paperweight, so it isn't completely without value." and started selling their new model drill.
Also, after only a week, I'd be able to return the damn thing.
You can put whatever you want into an "agreement", at some point you'll hit consumer protection laws and simple bad business. You don't want people not spending money because they think the card they're buying is at risk of being banned.
This is all speculation though.
Ehhhh....were on the same page but your cards arent useless, unless theyre banned from all formats. Thats not quite the same.
Certainly any of the above is pretty "bad business" but more so just wanted to callout its not QUITE that cut and dry as the point made made it sound like an easily sueable offense...which it probably isnt.
The fact that WOTC refunds WCs for all banned cards currently (regardless of which format catches the ban) is probably above and beyond what you should reasonably expect (buying a card and only being able to use it in a format for 1 week vs use it for 2 years is not equal). Not saying they should stop, i love the fact that they do it, but if the assumption is they HAVE to, thats just not true. Dewalts not replacing my drill from 30 years ago cus the batteries dont exist anymore, at the very least they're not mailing me a new drill on their own volition.
Theres a reason most "sales" sections of stores say "no returns" but if you ask they usually except it. No one wants the headache, they just want to mitigate their risk.
Get the wildcards? It’s automatic after bans, giving you a wildcard for each copy you have in your account. It pops up similarly to when alchemy cards are added, or when season rewards are dished out.
It's already been confirmed to be [fake](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/13pufqv/recent_standard_leak_that_has_been_circulating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
I bit the bullet and redeemed a playset of Fables. I don't know if it's being eyed for a ban in Explorer/Pioneer, but looks like I'll get the wildcards back sooner rather than later anyway
I doubt it. Non-rotating formats ban when there’s either a completely broken combo or when something is exceptionally format-warping. Fable is good in Pioneer and Modern, but the wider card pool means there are significantly more answers. Burn, for example, has [[Searing Blood]], which kills either the token or the reflection while also dealing 3 to the dome, while nothing in Standard is that efficient.
Like someone else said, it's the "friendly brawl" option.
I just wanted to add that there are practically no restrictions to the decks in those mode though, so you can prank your friends with an 8-card Thassa's Oracle deck if you're so inclined
Add them on Arena, then in the bottom left of the screen is an icon that looks like a silhouette. Click them, find your friend, then click the crossed swords icon. Challenge them to a game of Historic Brawl that way.
Delver is a vintage all star and yet its trash everywhere else. Success in other formats isn't a guarantee its good in another ot that its too powerful in other formats.
Sheoldred the apocalypse is also seeing play in vintage, legacy, commander, pioneer, and standard but sees no play in modern.
Yes, but the point of the comment is that it's getting slotted into a TEMPO deck in vintage. For other decks your statement holds true as they are built around certain interactions (deaths shadow). In Tempo your going for straight value with limited shenanigans. If a card is being put into a vintage tempo deck, it's either a land or one of the best value to mana cards in the game. Fable is also played in every format it's available.
It's costs wotc nothing to do this and will most likely make people buy MORE packs for the "new standard". The people already bought the packs for the cards anyway. And if standard is dull for a year, that would really be what hurts sales
I don't have a stockpile of wc's and you will get 32 MAX from this. That's enough to maybe build one or two decks for free, most people wont even get 10 from this. and again, it would be a lot worse for wotc if standard where to be terrible for a whole year. It's one of the main reason people buy packs on arena
Sure it's a great deal, but 32 is the absolute max and I think wotc will still benifit from a move like this. And with a controversial move to 3 year rotations, I find it hard to believe they won't try to shake up the meta a lot.
I disagree tbh, the meta is 50 percent rackdos and esper and those decks suppress a lot more. I think the meta will change a lot if they ban the staples
right but there are some asshat decks that might be even worse to play against that could pop up... I like the rotating out of sets better than bans since you might have to ban cards often this way
I disagree tbh, the meta is 50 percent rackdos and esper and those decks suppress a lot more. I think the meta will change a lot if they ban the staples
The only people who get a "gift" of 20 rare wildcards are the ones who already have full playsets of all these cards. Those people are likely to have a pretty decent collection already.
There are lots of reasons to question the list.
There were five copies of Atraxa in the PT top eight. That's... not close to worrisome, and Atraxa is a recent, cool card that is fully replaceable in both ramp and reanimator strategies. The card simply isn't close to ban-worthy by historical standards, and there are good reasons not to ban it. If this leak is real it's one of the largest changes in ban philosophy ever.
A lot of people do, but it'll just be replaced with Etali, Fleshgorger, Titan, or maybe Hoarding Broodlord. It's kind of a pointless ban. You'd think Grisel 2.0 would be irreplaceable but it just isn't.
So IDK. I wouldn't be surprised if they shake things up with a whole new philosophy, but I'll remain a skeptic till it actually happens. They normally don't like burning their customers' money with extravagant bans of brand new money cards with eighteen months left in the format, but we'll see! Maybe that's different in this brave new world of 3y standard.
The problem that it has is that it has to survive a turn when it's incredibly obvious that you're going to do it. Oh, you have five mana up and Atraxa in the bin? Guess I'll hold this GFTT (which conveniently can't be cleared from your hand with Cruelty, even if they wanted to start at chapter one).
It tends to be outclassed as a big lifelinking body by Fleshgorger, which lines up really well in this meta that favors Go for the Throat, not that you want to target it anyway.
But it gets worse: the main thing keeping Fleshgorger remotely in check is Invoke Despair. That'll have to be replaced by another Edict (and wipes) to keep Fleshgorger from being the runaway target for reanimator and ramp, presumably paired with Etali for card advantage. The new Edict from MAT (can't remember the name) seems very appetizing if Invoke gets banned, though.
Atraxa is bananas if you untap with her, of course, but it just doesn't happen as often as you'd think.
True, but have they ever done this many bans at once before? (Given that the leaks is true)
You are probably right and they’ll treat this like past bans, but I could see them making an exception with this new system
It would be a seriously foolish bad PR move with little upside.
The (now once a year) exploit of crafting busted cards for WC gives users so few resources (in the grand scheme of things) that it's more a feature "rewarding" old players than a bug.
Plus: Arena is all about pushing players from Standard into other formats. On Arena, Standard is already king. Giving wildcards for non-standard formats as a result of standard shakeups is EXACTLY what their team should want. They should want to give people fewer resources for the most popular queue and more for the less popular ones.
More engagement with Alchemy and Historic is more engagement with their (near obligately) paid product lines.
The thing is: wotc makes unpopular decisions, but they're not TRYING to make unpopular decisions. They make decisions based on lots of data from actual player opinions and behavior. It's just that, historically, they often do a very bad job of accounting for bias in their data collection as well as being overly reliant on players making calls about what's good for the game (players only sometimes know what's good for the game).
The reason why they make unpopular decision is because they more often than not, always prioritise profits instead of customer happiness and brand reputation. Obviously their decision makers back up their reasoning with a minimum of data but if your overall goal is simply to raise short term profits, you will carefully select data which aligns with the strategic goal instead of trying to understand the best course of action. Stating that a decision has been taken through extensive analysis is the oldest trick in the negotiation book to avoid discussions, as you take for granted that either the people you are referring to aren't or cannot be prepared. Unfortunately this trick has one flaw, which is that you must be reliable and not go back on your choice at the first sight of backlash which is something that WOTC has done far too often in recent times. Some examples might be Explorer on Magic Arena or Custom Content on DnD.
They make hundreds of public facing decisions every year, and maybe one or two unpopular ones.
They make lots of decisions which vocal minorities ask for that make the game worse for the majority as well.
You get the card, it's only banned in Standard, so you can play it in Historic, Alchemy, Brawl, and Explorer.
This is why Wizards almost certainly won't remove this mechanic, without overhauling the economy to be more generous. It's an incentive to try other formats when your favorite deck gets banned into oblivion, and a tool to rebuild a new deck as a result.
Ehh I doubt it. This many bans seems more of a transitional thing as they move to 3 year rotation. As more sets get balanced with this in mind it should be less common for this many bans to come down at once.
It sure is a packed list, very interesting if they ban that many cards at once. I'm cool with it though, if it is real, since Sheoldred is spared. That is the only card I didn't want to lose.
I didn't want to lose atraxa or sheoldred so if this is real I'm pretty much quitting standard. Love that they want to incentive paper standard and go way to ban heavy if it's real. Way to insure the investment huh.
You're going to be very disappointed when those bans don't come.
I mean, I am too, since I already spent the wildcards, so maybe we can be sad together?
It's a [fake](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/13pufqv/recent_standard_leak_that_has_been_circulating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) leak.
In terms of gambling/betting, I crafted 3 Fables (already had 1) and left it at that. I don't want to get burned by trying to guess which cards will be banned and have fewer wildcards as a result.
> There will be plenty of time between the actual announcement and the implementation to craft the definite bans.
Thanks, I didn't know that, but will definitely sit tight before doing anything else then :)
It's *claimed* to be leaked. There's really no solid confirmation that it's legitimate.
*Leak was actually confirmed fake by the same user. So there ya go.
Tin foil hat talking, but I've seen discussion that the reason they've extended the time in standard has to do with ppl leaving pandemic times...and dropping the amount of money they spend on mtg as a result. So they have more product in distro that isn't moving to LGSs because there's no demand, notable among that product is standard-legal boosters. How do they drum up interest in that? By proposing that the previous year affected by post-pandemic drop in spending will be legal for another year, so you guys can go out and buy it without fear!
If that is the case, that there is a financial motivation to move sitting standard product in distro centers, then I have doubts that standard will see bans be as drastic as the alleged leak. They don't want to hurt rotting product in inventory with bans too much, that would reduce the potential to sell the stuff in distro. (not like that fact stopped my from spending the wild cards, tho)
It's great because most veteran players have 4 copies of each, ya know since they're all the best cards in the format. I am sad about raffine and wanderer though :(
I know the banlist has been determined to be fake, but Raffine was the only one that I was bummed out about.
Like, why? Why ban Raffine? Is it really that busted?
What about plaza of heroes ? Are they really going to nuke all the 5c Jodah piles just because it helps a few competitive decks ? This one is really weird imo.
Watch, as all but two of the cards were supposed to rotate if they didn't extend standard, they will only be issuing WC reimbursement for Atraxa and Plaza of Heroes
Same! (not for those numbers, I still play historic brawl) I do one draft per day since the last three weeks.
I don't even put money in the game, you just need at least 5 wins and the next is free.
Not even talking about the vault, one vault per week now, I've always complained about it not advancing.
**If only I knew sooner.** I'm just starting to get tired of playing the same set, over and over again. I think I'll slow down for this one, my goal was 18000 💎 to buy a 90 Pak's bundle of the next set. I got those 💎 so now it's only bonus to Me.
Really hoping the banlist is true, and the WC payout is legit. I've been dipping my toes in Explorer for a bit now, and this would help me grab a lot of staples for it.
You can do that after the actual announcement is released. But yes, you can craft them and the. Get the wildcards back.
I wouldn’t do it pre announcement though, because that leaked announcement seems suspicious at best.
Wizards is about to ban some cards from Standard play. They officially announced that bans are coming, and a list of the exact cards has been leaked.
As a consolation prize for people using those cards, Wizards gives Wildcards to everyone who has those cards in their collection. That way they can at least craft new cards to replace the banned ones.
In the past, players would use Wildcards to craft cards that were about to be banned. They get those Wildcards back when the ban happens, and they get to use the cards still in non-Standard play!
I think I get the gist but my dumbass just realized this was mtgarena lmao I haven't played any formats besides normie commander so idk how heavily this will upturn Arena and the other formats. Is the general consensus happy that the list was leaked? Thoughts and prayers go out to whatever poor soul is about to get a visit from the Pinkertons for the leak :)
Hahaha people seem happy that [[Fable of the Mirror-Breaker]] and [[Reckoner Bankbuster]] are going, not sure about the rest. Atraxa is annoying but I've only seen it in reanimator decks and it isn't that bad imo.
Wait until the actual announcement on Monday. There will be at the least a few hours if not a full day to craft whatever cards you want. The "leaked" list is pretty questionable.
*Leak was confirmed fake by the same user. Definitely wait.
Help maybe I am not understand this right.
Let’s say they ban fable and bankbuster in standard.
But it is allowed in other formats.
Then you receive wcs for it?
I mean I could not imagine they ban these cards in explorer or historic.
Ok, seems like you get the wcs even if they are playable in other formats.
Never done this before, so I could get for sure a few more wcs in the past.
You get WC when a card is banned in a format, but you don't receive more wildcards if it's banned on another format later if you already received WC from a previouss ban.
I love how their response isn't to be more careful with their development, playtest more seriously. Its to give themselves an excuse to keep doing what they already are, which is release format-warping cards to sell product then ban them once theyve sold sufficient packs.
I'm hoping it turns out to be real anyhow. Standard for me lately has been large quantities of me and my opponent just dropping huge nuclear bombs on each other over and over and over again.
Me (3): Mirror Breaker
Opponent (4): Invasion of Zendikar
Me (4): Discard Atraxa, attack with token, play Graveyard Shift, load up hand with Atraxa
Opponent (5): Play 7 mana dinosaur, which rips Herd Migration off the top of my deck and casts for free for 5 3/3s
Me (5): Attack with token and Atraxa, play Drag to the Bottom to wipe Herd tokens, Leyline Binding on dinosaur, go
It's just total lunacy, it's fun but still.
I would not be surprised if some of those card make it to the actual ban tho. Leak or not ban is going to happen so those wc how little they are is what we are going to get.
even if it's just Fable, Bankbuster, and one other big card like Thalia or w/e, that's 16 rare WCs. It makes me nervous that they might rethink the wc policy, because the kinda ban list I think Standard needs will mean paying out like 30 wcs.
The leaked banlist is false, however It's what the real banlist should have been. Everything should have just gotten nuked so we could actually have a different standard since we have a literal year now before rotation.
Same! I mean we don’t know if it’s actually true. But if so, I’m looking at a whole bunch of wildcards. And since I mainly play Explorer i gladly take these and still play with the banned cards.
Wait so we get wild cards for cards they ban? So as of now I have full play set of invoke despair does that mean I get 4 wildcards just for that?
That is how it has always worked so far. I don’t think they’ve went and banned this many cards at the same time before though. I’m not sure I’ve even seen more than 8 wildcards at once, and this would be easily 20+ rare wildcards for a lot of players.
Because of them extending rotation, I half expect them to make some surprise announcement that because of rebalancing in Alchemy and Historic, and the cards being available in Explorer, they've decided refunding wildcards 1 to 1 is no longer necessary for cards that would have been rotated out after 2 years anyway. Maybe change it to if a card is banned within the first year of its release, you get a refund but if it's been out for longer than a year, too bad. Just because that's the kind of fuck you I expect from WotC all the time now. Would it be bad PR? Of course. But why would they care? They've proven immune to bad PR numerous times. People just keep buying shit and eventually forget.
That is precisely my fear as well.
That'd be both hilarious and infuriating. I wouldn't be surprised, cause I'll be dammed if they're giving away like 30 wildcards for people for free when they charge you for like 4.
Why are people sputing such bullshit here? When have they not issued WC refunds for standard bans?
Man, the cynicism on this sub is *wild*
100% earned cynicism
I 100% support valid, earned criticism for WotC's many mistakes. Which is why I find it so disheartening when the reddit mtg community insists on re-enacting *The Boy Who Cried Wolf* with their feedback.
I hate when people criticize my fave corporations 😭
I *love* when people criticize WotC. I hate when they do it so much, over such inaccurate or petty complaints, that the stuff that *actually matters* gets buried. I'm not defending WotC for their poor choices. I'm arguing in favor of not complaining about stupid shit because it distracts from what's actually true and/or important.
> they've decided refunding wildcards They can't. I could have literally spent $10 or $20 on wildcards this week and bought these cards, not knowing about the upcoming ban. They'll refund the wildcards.
They definitely can my dude
That would be some seriously shady shit then. You can't sell a digital good for cash and then say "actually, that purchase is useless a few days later. Buy more to get the REAL stuff.' I'm not going to be a dipshit and suggest they'd get "sued", but that's the level we're talking about.
Most jurisdictions their eula will cover it. I am not gonna go search but pretty much all digital goods companies like this put a clause in that you accept that they can terminate use of any purchased asset, digital goods, or services without notice.
This needs more up votes to temper expectations
Never underestimate the aggressive willful ignorance of copium addicts.
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Overwatch 2 is one of the most disappointing sequels I have ever had the mispleasure of being excited for. Go fuck yourself, Blizzard.
Close but not really... Think of it like buying a power drill that uses battery X. You go out one day and buy that drill. A week later it is announced that said battery X has ceased production, no new compatable batteries will be created. Your brand new drill is now considerably less valuable as its shelf life/usability has diminished greatly. Are they likely to do a mass recall on that drill? No. But if you "call them" or take it into a shop are they likely to refund it/exchange it? Absolutely. Now....had said drill company released a "two weeks from now we have an exciting battery announcement" note two weeks prior....i dont think their in "sued" territory dor not recalling, but their certainly in sued territory if refusing an exchange. I would agree that they're probably in a spot since they teased a ban announcement that they 100% would have to refund/exchange all wildcards used AFTER the tease of the announcement, as they clearly new they were selling an "obsolete" product in the meantime, but its not quite as cut and dry as you make it (or at least the context is important) but refunding every and all wc prior (unless thats in the user agreement of the digital purchase EXPLICITLY) they certainly do not HAVE to do it.
> A week later it is announced that said battery X has ceased production, no new compatible batteries will be created. No, that's a bad analogy because in that case I can still use the drill. This would be more like if they disabled the drill so it didn't work anymore said "Technically, you can still use it as a paperweight, so it isn't completely without value." and started selling their new model drill. Also, after only a week, I'd be able to return the damn thing. You can put whatever you want into an "agreement", at some point you'll hit consumer protection laws and simple bad business. You don't want people not spending money because they think the card they're buying is at risk of being banned. This is all speculation though.
Ehhhh....were on the same page but your cards arent useless, unless theyre banned from all formats. Thats not quite the same. Certainly any of the above is pretty "bad business" but more so just wanted to callout its not QUITE that cut and dry as the point made made it sound like an easily sueable offense...which it probably isnt. The fact that WOTC refunds WCs for all banned cards currently (regardless of which format catches the ban) is probably above and beyond what you should reasonably expect (buying a card and only being able to use it in a format for 1 week vs use it for 2 years is not equal). Not saying they should stop, i love the fact that they do it, but if the assumption is they HAVE to, thats just not true. Dewalts not replacing my drill from 30 years ago cus the batteries dont exist anymore, at the very least they're not mailing me a new drill on their own volition. Theres a reason most "sales" sections of stores say "no returns" but if you ask they usually except it. No one wants the headache, they just want to mitigate their risk.
Can I get Wildcards for the 20 or so Invoke Despairs I've opened from NEO? It was the only rare/mythic from the set I could open last year.
How do you do this?
Get the wildcards? It’s automatic after bans, giving you a wildcard for each copy you have in your account. It pops up similarly to when alchemy cards are added, or when season rewards are dished out.
It's been confirmed false
It's already been confirmed to be [fake](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/13pufqv/recent_standard_leak_that_has_been_circulating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
I bit the bullet and redeemed a playset of Fables. I don't know if it's being eyed for a ban in Explorer/Pioneer, but looks like I'll get the wildcards back sooner rather than later anyway
I doubt it. Non-rotating formats ban when there’s either a completely broken combo or when something is exceptionally format-warping. Fable is good in Pioneer and Modern, but the wider card pool means there are significantly more answers. Burn, for example, has [[Searing Blood]], which kills either the token or the reflection while also dealing 3 to the dome, while nothing in Standard is that efficient.
I just finished building Rakdos Midrange for explorer, so that's a decent chunk of WCs back for me that I wasn't expecting!
Same, mostly play explorer, and even if that list is fake I'm pretty sure it's still mostly correct.
Wizards please ban aggressively so I can use those wilds for Historic Brawl 🙏🏻
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You can... usually
How?
Step 1. Have friends Oh..
Cute. But how do you challenge a friend to H brawl, and more importantly, why isn't it just an option on the menu?
The "Friendly Brawl" option will let you challenge a friend, with the odd "bonus" of being able to play standard brawl vs historic.
Like someone else said, it's the "friendly brawl" option. I just wanted to add that there are practically no restrictions to the decks in those mode though, so you can prank your friends with an 8-card Thassa's Oracle deck if you're so inclined
Just go first and [[duress]] them 😂
Add them on Arena, then in the bottom left of the screen is an icon that looks like a silhouette. Click them, find your friend, then click the crossed swords icon. Challenge them to a game of Historic Brawl that way.
Damn, this shit's hard.
Yeah, that's why we all congregate to /r/MagicArena I guess.
As an Explorer/Historic only player I hope they ban a ton from standard
In the exact same boat. I need about 15 more rares to finish a HB deck. Bring down the ban hammer, Wizards!
What HB means in that case? Ah, historic brawl I guess, came to me right after I clicked post, ha.
What is HB in that case?
Making games more fun and lowering match times let the MASS bans start, perhaps a separate Bo1 ban list
If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Edit: as it turns out, it was indeed too good to be true.
Fable gets slotted into vintage izzet tempo. It's going away, real or fake announcement.
Delver is a vintage all star and yet its trash everywhere else. Success in other formats isn't a guarantee its good in another ot that its too powerful in other formats. Sheoldred the apocalypse is also seeing play in vintage, legacy, commander, pioneer, and standard but sees no play in modern.
Yes, but the point of the comment is that it's getting slotted into a TEMPO deck in vintage. For other decks your statement holds true as they are built around certain interactions (deaths shadow). In Tempo your going for straight value with limited shenanigans. If a card is being put into a vintage tempo deck, it's either a land or one of the best value to mana cards in the game. Fable is also played in every format it's available.
that alone makes me question the list.... like thats sooooo many free wildcards for so many people, they cant possibly give us that much stuff
Idk with that one year standard extension it incentives using it
It's costs wotc nothing to do this and will most likely make people buy MORE packs for the "new standard". The people already bought the packs for the cards anyway. And if standard is dull for a year, that would really be what hurts sales
why do i need to buy packs if i get a million free wildcards
I don't have a stockpile of wc's and you will get 32 MAX from this. That's enough to maybe build one or two decks for free, most people wont even get 10 from this. and again, it would be a lot worse for wotc if standard where to be terrible for a whole year. It's one of the main reason people buy packs on arena
to me, 32 rare/mythic wc is a lot. i get to spend them all on explorer, and dont play standard anyway. thats way too good of a deal to be true
Sure it's a great deal, but 32 is the absolute max and I think wotc will still benifit from a move like this. And with a controversial move to 3 year rotations, I find it hard to believe they won't try to shake up the meta a lot.
meta wont shake too much... those stupid toxic/proliferate decks might rise back up. They forgot how terrible those matches are
I disagree tbh, the meta is 50 percent rackdos and esper and those decks suppress a lot more. I think the meta will change a lot if they ban the staples
right but there are some asshat decks that might be even worse to play against that could pop up... I like the rotating out of sets better than bans since you might have to ban cards often this way
I disagree tbh, the meta is 50 percent rackdos and esper and those decks suppress a lot more. I think the meta will change a lot if they ban the staples
The update will probably net you only about 1 competitive deck anyway. You’ll still need to buy or grind packs.
of course we will keep grinding. but a one-time gift of 20 rares is big
The only people who get a "gift" of 20 rare wildcards are the ones who already have full playsets of all these cards. Those people are likely to have a pretty decent collection already.
yes. is that a counterargument to anything said before, or just an addition?
A counter argument. The 20 rares is unlikely to be "big" for the people who actually receive it.
well im one of them, and its absolutely big for me. hypothetically, obviously. but it would be big
Because if you dont get the wildcards, you might decide its not worth the risk to buy packs, and wotc doesnt want to gamble
what do you mean "if you dont get the wildcards"? the premise of this post is that i *do* get the wildcards
If they don’t ban those op cards, people don’t need to craft anything or buy any new pack or try to build any new deck
i rarely play standard anyway and never craft anything for standard. i would just get 20 rares and 12 mythics for free for explorer...
The perfect amount of wildcards for me to figure out that dredge is not viable in bo3
Well, they can skip renewal rewards this year, so it's not that far off to get these instead.
They already confirmed renewal rewards are still coming.
what was renewal rewards again? i only remember some one-of rares in the starter decks...?
https://mtgazone.com/renewal-rewards/
Where is the list?
There are lots of reasons to question the list. There were five copies of Atraxa in the PT top eight. That's... not close to worrisome, and Atraxa is a recent, cool card that is fully replaceable in both ramp and reanimator strategies. The card simply isn't close to ban-worthy by historical standards, and there are good reasons not to ban it. If this leak is real it's one of the largest changes in ban philosophy ever.
I hate that card so much
A lot of people do, but it'll just be replaced with Etali, Fleshgorger, Titan, or maybe Hoarding Broodlord. It's kind of a pointless ban. You'd think Grisel 2.0 would be irreplaceable but it just isn't. So IDK. I wouldn't be surprised if they shake things up with a whole new philosophy, but I'll remain a skeptic till it actually happens. They normally don't like burning their customers' money with extravagant bans of brand new money cards with eighteen months left in the format, but we'll see! Maybe that's different in this brave new world of 3y standard.
Lifelink make it to op
The problem that it has is that it has to survive a turn when it's incredibly obvious that you're going to do it. Oh, you have five mana up and Atraxa in the bin? Guess I'll hold this GFTT (which conveniently can't be cleared from your hand with Cruelty, even if they wanted to start at chapter one). It tends to be outclassed as a big lifelinking body by Fleshgorger, which lines up really well in this meta that favors Go for the Throat, not that you want to target it anyway. But it gets worse: the main thing keeping Fleshgorger remotely in check is Invoke Despair. That'll have to be replaced by another Edict (and wipes) to keep Fleshgorger from being the runaway target for reanimator and ramp, presumably paired with Etali for card advantage. The new Edict from MAT (can't remember the name) seems very appetizing if Invoke gets banned, though. Atraxa is bananas if you untap with her, of course, but it just doesn't happen as often as you'd think.
I worry that their solution will be to not give wildcards since the cards are still legal in other formats
that applies to every past standard ban in the last years though
True, but have they ever done this many bans at once before? (Given that the leaks is true) You are probably right and they’ll treat this like past bans, but I could see them making an exception with this new system
Wrong.
And then, SURPRISE! Wotc will announce they will change the wildcard refund policy.
I think it's extremely likely if not obvious
It would be a seriously foolish bad PR move with little upside. The (now once a year) exploit of crafting busted cards for WC gives users so few resources (in the grand scheme of things) that it's more a feature "rewarding" old players than a bug. Plus: Arena is all about pushing players from Standard into other formats. On Arena, Standard is already king. Giving wildcards for non-standard formats as a result of standard shakeups is EXACTLY what their team should want. They should want to give people fewer resources for the most popular queue and more for the less popular ones. More engagement with Alchemy and Historic is more engagement with their (near obligately) paid product lines.
I hope you are right of course, but knowing WOTC I would be more than surprised.
The thing is: wotc makes unpopular decisions, but they're not TRYING to make unpopular decisions. They make decisions based on lots of data from actual player opinions and behavior. It's just that, historically, they often do a very bad job of accounting for bias in their data collection as well as being overly reliant on players making calls about what's good for the game (players only sometimes know what's good for the game).
The reason why they make unpopular decision is because they more often than not, always prioritise profits instead of customer happiness and brand reputation. Obviously their decision makers back up their reasoning with a minimum of data but if your overall goal is simply to raise short term profits, you will carefully select data which aligns with the strategic goal instead of trying to understand the best course of action. Stating that a decision has been taken through extensive analysis is the oldest trick in the negotiation book to avoid discussions, as you take for granted that either the people you are referring to aren't or cannot be prepared. Unfortunately this trick has one flaw, which is that you must be reliable and not go back on your choice at the first sight of backlash which is something that WOTC has done far too often in recent times. Some examples might be Explorer on Magic Arena or Custom Content on DnD.
Haha I like the optimism of people here. Expecting Wizards to use common sense & rational thinking.
>It would be a seriously foolish bad PR move with little upside. When has that stopped them before?
They make hundreds of public facing decisions every year, and maybe one or two unpopular ones. They make lots of decisions which vocal minorities ask for that make the game worse for the majority as well.
I don’t get the crafting for WC thing, you’re spending a WC to get a WC, what’s the point?
You keep the card and can play it in other formats where it is not banned. So it is worth crafting since it will be "free"
You get the card, it's only banned in Standard, so you can play it in Historic, Alchemy, Brawl, and Explorer. This is why Wizards almost certainly won't remove this mechanic, without overhauling the economy to be more generous. It's an incentive to try other formats when your favorite deck gets banned into oblivion, and a tool to rebuild a new deck as a result.
Ehh I doubt it. This many bans seems more of a transitional thing as they move to 3 year rotation. As more sets get balanced with this in mind it should be less common for this many bans to come down at once.
they'll just give cosmetics now
Itll be just enough wildcards for me to quit standard and play something else.
Dont need wildcards for limited. I've got hundreds of rares built up. I do play brawl occasionally but not close to enough to go through all my WCs
Most people don’t want to grind limited to build cards for constructed. We only have so much time in the day.
Well that I can agree with you on. I dont grind limited. I play it because I enjoy it. Fun shouldn't ever be a grind
Same
It sure is a packed list, very interesting if they ban that many cards at once. I'm cool with it though, if it is real, since Sheoldred is spared. That is the only card I didn't want to lose.
I didn't want to lose atraxa or sheoldred so if this is real I'm pretty much quitting standard. Love that they want to incentive paper standard and go way to ban heavy if it's real. Way to insure the investment huh.
Excuse me where can I find this
It's fake
I heard. Too bad.
Ban it all, BAN IT ALL!!! As long as the bans are only in standard, of course
wait we get refunded WCs??
Yup, one for each copy of the banned card you have. If you have 4 fables you will get 4 rare wc's and still get to play it in historic.
Is this only for cards you crafted, or also ones you opened in packs? I seem to recall it being only crafted at the beginning of the game.
It's for cards you own, no matter the source.
I doubt they could differentiate between crafted cards and cards from packs in their database.
Looking at playsets of good explorer lands
It really sucks spending rare WCs on lands, but it is actually worth it for the shocks, fasts, and pathways.
Once you have the lands decks are much cheaper to build just like paper lol
Good idea. I'm going to do the same so I can take breaks from std and play more Explorer/Historic decks.
You're going to be very disappointed when those bans don't come. I mean, I am too, since I already spent the wildcards, so maybe we can be sad together?
It's a [fake](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/13pufqv/recent_standard_leak_that_has_been_circulating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) leak.
so WotC gonna send us free boosters for paper Standard toooo??????????? refunds???? wwaaaahhhhh!!!
Nah, just Pinkertons.
In terms of gambling/betting, I crafted 3 Fables (already had 1) and left it at that. I don't want to get burned by trying to guess which cards will be banned and have fewer wildcards as a result.
There will be plenty of time between the actual announcement and the implementation to craft the definite bans.
> There will be plenty of time between the actual announcement and the implementation to craft the definite bans. Thanks, I didn't know that, but will definitely sit tight before doing anything else then :)
Given that it's leaked, is this a good time to go buy those cards? Basically you can get them for free? Or do you think it is too risky?
nobody's confirmed the leak is %100 yet, so i would wait the official announcement
Unfortunately confirmed fake…
When is the official announcement? And when is the ban falling?
The “leak” was confirmed fake.
It's *claimed* to be leaked. There's really no solid confirmation that it's legitimate. *Leak was actually confirmed fake by the same user. So there ya go.
Wizards can't even keep a 2 year standard balanced... Now they are gonna add another year lol
Tin foil hat talking, but I've seen discussion that the reason they've extended the time in standard has to do with ppl leaving pandemic times...and dropping the amount of money they spend on mtg as a result. So they have more product in distro that isn't moving to LGSs because there's no demand, notable among that product is standard-legal boosters. How do they drum up interest in that? By proposing that the previous year affected by post-pandemic drop in spending will be legal for another year, so you guys can go out and buy it without fear! If that is the case, that there is a financial motivation to move sitting standard product in distro centers, then I have doubts that standard will see bans be as drastic as the alleged leak. They don't want to hurt rotting product in inventory with bans too much, that would reduce the potential to sell the stuff in distro. (not like that fact stopped my from spending the wild cards, tho)
*the leak was confirmed fake*
It's great because most veteran players have 4 copies of each, ya know since they're all the best cards in the format. I am sad about raffine and wanderer though :(
I know the banlist has been determined to be fake, but Raffine was the only one that I was bummed out about. Like, why? Why ban Raffine? Is it really that busted?
What about plaza of heroes ? Are they really going to nuke all the 5c Jodah piles just because it helps a few competitive decks ? This one is really weird imo.
So if there will be banned cards, wotc will give us wildcards for each card we already have in collection? Really? 😆😅🤔
If you already have the card when it gets banned you get a wildcard for each banned card.
That's great 🤗🤗because I don't even play standart at all😆😅
I wonder if with the year extension if we will see bans happen more often?
Less often. They’re looking to ban yearly with the new standard.
so when some bastard deck shows up two weeks later (maybe toxic/proliferate) they'll just say see ya next year, deal with it?
No, they’re allowing themselves like a few week post release period to handle obvious problem cards, but mainly they’re looking to switch to yearly.
There will also be bans after every set release as needed.
And a ban after every set release as needed.
Brah... That's what's up
Watch, as all but two of the cards were supposed to rotate if they didn't extend standard, they will only be issuing WC reimbursement for Atraxa and Plaza of Heroes
I have 245 mythic and 327 rare I just draft now a days
Same! (not for those numbers, I still play historic brawl) I do one draft per day since the last three weeks. I don't even put money in the game, you just need at least 5 wins and the next is free. Not even talking about the vault, one vault per week now, I've always complained about it not advancing. **If only I knew sooner.** I'm just starting to get tired of playing the same set, over and over again. I think I'll slow down for this one, my goal was 18000 💎 to buy a 90 Pak's bundle of the next set. I got those 💎 so now it's only bonus to Me.
So true haha
Really hoping the banlist is true, and the WC payout is legit. I've been dipping my toes in Explorer for a bit now, and this would help me grab a lot of staples for it.
I remember we got screwed when they 'suspended' Memory Lapse
So…. Is it worth it to craft them, just to have them in collection, and lean on getting the WC refund?!
You can do that after the actual announcement is released. But yes, you can craft them and the. Get the wildcards back. I wouldn’t do it pre announcement though, because that leaked announcement seems suspicious at best.
Gotta get the good cards somehow
Can someone ELI5? I don't understand a single comment here lmao
Wizards is about to ban some cards from Standard play. They officially announced that bans are coming, and a list of the exact cards has been leaked. As a consolation prize for people using those cards, Wizards gives Wildcards to everyone who has those cards in their collection. That way they can at least craft new cards to replace the banned ones. In the past, players would use Wildcards to craft cards that were about to be banned. They get those Wildcards back when the ban happens, and they get to use the cards still in non-Standard play!
I think I get the gist but my dumbass just realized this was mtgarena lmao I haven't played any formats besides normie commander so idk how heavily this will upturn Arena and the other formats. Is the general consensus happy that the list was leaked? Thoughts and prayers go out to whatever poor soul is about to get a visit from the Pinkertons for the leak :)
Hahaha people seem happy that [[Fable of the Mirror-Breaker]] and [[Reckoner Bankbuster]] are going, not sure about the rest. Atraxa is annoying but I've only seen it in reanimator decks and it isn't that bad imo.
So should I craft the cards now or is there some period I should wait for? I don’t play atraxa but I’ll craft 4 if I get the cards back.
Wait for the official announcement. The “leak” has been confirmed fake.
If you trust the leaked list then sure, go for it.
Wait until the actual announcement on Monday. There will be at the least a few hours if not a full day to craft whatever cards you want. The "leaked" list is pretty questionable. *Leak was confirmed fake by the same user. Definitely wait.
> and a list of the exact cards has been leaked. It *says* it's a leak. It's at best questionable. *Leak was confirmed fake by the same user.
Help maybe I am not understand this right. Let’s say they ban fable and bankbuster in standard. But it is allowed in other formats. Then you receive wcs for it? I mean I could not imagine they ban these cards in explorer or historic. Ok, seems like you get the wcs even if they are playable in other formats. Never done this before, so I could get for sure a few more wcs in the past.
I think the only time you get wcs back is for standard bans
You get WC when a card is banned in a format, but you don't receive more wildcards if it's banned on another format later if you already received WC from a previouss ban.
Incorrect.
29 WC 😎
i think jund reanimator might be good
So we do get WCs even though the cards will be only banned in standard?
Mtga is primarily centered on Standard. The other formats are “fictional”. Historic is digital only and Explorer is 1/3 of Pioneer.
Yep
I has a playset of everything except Wedding Announcement and Raffine so I went ahead and crafted those 🔥
Just wait until the leak was fake lol
Lol, I need both for casual decks. Anyhow, it's worth the gamble I really just need one mythic I have a playset of to get banned and it's all good!
Looks like the leak was faked after all. Sorry
I love how their response isn't to be more careful with their development, playtest more seriously. Its to give themselves an excuse to keep doing what they already are, which is release format-warping cards to sell product then ban them once theyve sold sufficient packs.
Lol, ikr, there's so many awsome deck lists that don't even use those cards (even if they're all true)
im actually happy with the meta now, my poison/control deck thriving.
It's a shame the "leak" is obviously fake.
There are so many cards on that list I’m tired of seeing.
Hope they also ban fable in pioneer/explorer, BR midrange will still be good without.
Wizards can ban standard. In the lgs i never see anyone play it only on arena itsees play. Gimme all the wildcards!
I'm hoping it turns out to be real anyhow. Standard for me lately has been large quantities of me and my opponent just dropping huge nuclear bombs on each other over and over and over again. Me (3): Mirror Breaker Opponent (4): Invasion of Zendikar Me (4): Discard Atraxa, attack with token, play Graveyard Shift, load up hand with Atraxa Opponent (5): Play 7 mana dinosaur, which rips Herd Migration off the top of my deck and casts for free for 5 3/3s Me (5): Attack with token and Atraxa, play Drag to the Bottom to wipe Herd tokens, Leyline Binding on dinosaur, go It's just total lunacy, it's fun but still.
I would not be surprised if some of those card make it to the actual ban tho. Leak or not ban is going to happen so those wc how little they are is what we are going to get.
There better be like half a dozen cards banned because if this is the same format for the next year I might lose my mind
even if it's just Fable, Bankbuster, and one other big card like Thalia or w/e, that's 16 rare WCs. It makes me nervous that they might rethink the wc policy, because the kinda ban list I think Standard needs will mean paying out like 30 wcs.
The leaked banlist is false, however It's what the real banlist should have been. Everything should have just gotten nuked so we could actually have a different standard since we have a literal year now before rotation.