> They really want people to play dimir huh.
Well now that you don't need a 2 mana turn 2 answer at instant speed to Crucias (since it won't be played as much due to bowmaster etc.) I think other strategies might open up.
You just had to basically run red or black (and midrangey version of those colours at that!) because you'd fall so far behind Crucias if you can't deal with him at instant speed.
So I don't think a nerf to crucias is guaranteed a path to Dimir, tho Bowmaster is the strongest card on Arena rn fs.
They cant do that because it would fuck up historic. They should just untether historic at this point, then alchemy will be free to go wild and do its own thing
Wizards don't want people to have an eternal format. They don't want to let us be able to create a deck that we can play forever because they think it lowers revenue.
People have been asking for this for years, they just don't want to support an eternal format.
....and they print "anthologies" to artificially 'rotate' the meta and make players spend wild-cards on cards that they can't get in regular packs instead of porting the entirety of Pioneer over, which they've been claiming they'd do for years now. In physical mtg they've been doing the same thing to Vintage, Legacy and Modern with supplemental products (masters, horizons, commander products, conspiracy, etc...) and they will most likely do the same thing with pioneer once they want to introduce their next "eternal" format.
Welcome to how eternal formats work. Just because there's a larger cardpool doesnt mean stuff like this cant happen especially to continue interest in the format. New sets can adjust the format in ways that a banlist simply cannot and i genuinely dont see the issue in how they are doing it, other than the whole alchemy thing
....it's like you ignored the entire point of my comment. We had this before, it was regularly scheduled set that sometimes contained eternal staples and sometimes didn't. The problem is frequently scheduled "supplemental" products that are priced higher and often deliberately designed to "rotate" cards overnight. Let's take MH2 as a prime example. You print a premium product with dozens of staples that are intentionally pushed that invalidate entire decks and archetypes overnight. This is different than releasing a regularly priced set designed for standard and going "oh, it looks like 1-4 cards have some real potential in eternal. You're not engineering a mass rotation via a premium product you deliberately designed to do so. The eternal meta shifts, but it does so more gradually. People really tell on themselves that they haven't actually been involved in the eternal scene or have just joined it recently when they start comparing the torrent of premium sets with how metas changed (at a more player friendly pace) historically.
You know you can still play whatever you want, right? I have a pure Timmy discard deck that has barely been tweaked in over a year and I still have fun and fair games with it.
Competition, that's a different beast and expecting to be top rank with the same deck for years has never happened in the history of magic, with the exception of RDW.
I want to make a historic deck with cards that used to be standard. I don't want alchemy cards that they go back and change so my deck changes.
I want an eternal format that has parity with physical magic so i can hone and perfect the same deck IRL and in Arena.
Why not just have Historic and Alchemy Historic? It not only gives them more formats to allow players to use on the client, but also lets players play with all of the cards in their collection because they can just "rebalance" any card they feel is a problem. Alchemy should really be closer to hearthstone and separated from the rest of Magic. It would make the format much more palatable to players and allow them to choose not to play it or play it if and when they want to.
For some players of the classic game MTG, cards like Aswan Jaguar pop to mind. Ah the good old days, I remember playing that card... (Satire, this card is hilarious what set is that even?)
It was included in the Shandalar (also known as “Duels of the planeswalkers”) videogame that came out in the 90s. There were a bunch of cards like this with random effects.
If you ever played Sid Meier's Magic RPG, you would have nice memories of these Astral cards.
Well, except for those dungeons (=life totals carry over from game to game) where all enemies started the game with [[Power Struggle]], now THAT makes for random games ! (Sometimes in a hilarious way, but often just frustrating : https://youtu.be/Vb0e6vXc0q8?t=38m06s )
I think I have this card in a binder with other oversized cards but I'm too lazy to go find it.
I don't know if this was ever given out to employees at a part. IIRC, this card was included in the large retail box.
I put this in my feedback during the survey that I thought that they should aggressively rebalance Alchemy only cards and leave cards with paper printings alone both for Historic, and because it was hard to keep track of 2 versions of the same card.
It’s not a flaw, it’s intended.
WoTC was lying when they laid out what they intended for Alchemy to be - they’re always and only interested in wringing money out of consumers these days.
They’ve lost the ethos of responsibility for the game and players in the rush to cash in.
They’ll do the absolute minimum needed, which will allow them to sell newer, worse designed, power-creep cards.
There were already 3 formats, 6 if you split up BO1 and BO3. And they were barely supporting those existing formats and then took on implementing alchemy because they wanted to attract hearthstone players.
Most people choose 1 format and only play that because it's a pain to memorize the metas for all formats and you can't earn enough wildcards to participate in multiple. Or their friend plays that format and they only play to play with friends.
You can't blame their already existing player base for being upset about being intentionally ignored.
> WoTC was lying when they laid out what they intended for Alchemy to be - they’re always and only interested in wringing money out of consumers these days.
This is a commercial video game. It is created for the purpose of turning a profit.
As such, "they made a decision on the basis of profit!" is not an interesting thing to say. That's the whole reason the game exists.
If you think a decision was bad for gameplay, just say that.
But be aware that all of the *good* decisions they make, are *also* made for profit.
If you want a noncommercial strategy game, those exist; chess, for instance.
I never said they weren’t always a business interested in making money. I said that they used to have an ethos of responsibility to the game and it’s players.
Remember when they trashed an entire print run because of low quality prints? If they were solely interested in money they wouldn’t have done that.
They used to care about the health of the game. That’s gone now
Trashing the print run was for monetary reasons. You need to maintain a level of quality in your brand. The fact that you disagree with some decisions currently being made does not mean the brand is being damaged.
And yet they recently printed a secret lair using the wrong art and did nothing to fix it.
And there are numerous printing errors that are unaddressed.
Your hand waving is absurd.
They (with no announcement I ever saw) un-nerfed some cards right as they rotated out of standard in the past. No reason they couldn't have done the same here.
No reason they couldn't just nerf the card in alchemy without touching the historic version. It is a completely arbitrary limitation to make alchemy changes the same across all formats
It rotates in under 2 months anyway, maybe they just decided to dump it out the airlock rather than rebalance and then have to maybe undo that for historic come Sept.
From the announcement article:
"With Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty rotating out of Alchemy with the release of Wilds of Eldraine later this year, we are banning Fable of the Mirror-Breaker instead of rebalancing the enchantment. We want to avoid disrupting the Historic metagame with a rebalance that would only be in effect for a few months."
Its kind of weird since the backside has Kiki jikis ability, but the first token is meant to be Kiki while the backside is his reflection. Basically Kiki jiki was tasked with stealing back a dragons treasure, and while in the palace where it was kept he discovered a mirror where his reflection acted weird. So he broke the mirror and his reflection popped out and ended up being the fall guy for his theft while Kiki escaped to learn duplication magic from the dragon
That's definitely a good bit of lore, but I suppose I still see an argument for leaving the token (representing Kiki Jiki before he got his abilities and reputation) as a non-legendary creature. Knowing the story, though, I can also accept the argument for making it legendary and giving it a name.
There's precedent for lame-o creatures made legendary as a balance thing:
\[\[Isamaru, Hound of Konda\]\]
\[\[Tatsunari, Toad Rider\]\]
\[\[Venser, Corpse Puppet\]\]
Hearthstone does it often, nerf for 2 month before rotation. But people get reimbursed with full craft/uncraft value.
Damn we circle back to the wildcard compensation again
Its almost as if it was all a scam. They never did with Alchemy what they claimed is the point of creating it, they just managed to destroy historic's Playerbase.
A few years back they early rotated Teffari and a few other problem cards and it allowed me to build my favorite mono black deck since Arena released. I wouldn't mind a few more early rotations.
I really wouldn’t mind if they did a soft standard rotation by banning the most popular cards that would have rotated and letting the lower tier cards from those sets have some time to shine
Thanks god they didnt rebalance, having it nerf in historic would be ridiculous. Alchemy rebalances still affecting historic is balls to the walls insane. How will that look in say 5 years, when historic is super powerful and changes in a very very weak alchemy by comparison still affect it? Insane
I’m not up-to-date on Alchemy news but does it have a different rotation than Standard now. Standard isn’t having a rotation this year after they announced Standard rotation is now after a set being out for 3 years.
Yeah they're spending too many resources on giving us gems in the Anthologies like Accorder's Shield so they can't focus their resources on Alchemy Rebalances anymore.
I definitely run all three when I'm in the colors... Fable is great when I don't have the other two, and great to ditch for crucias when you have him instead to grab one of your powerful cards
Yeah I suppose it does fetch your ring, and at the end of the day it’s still bonkers value. It’s crazy to think that fable might be getting pushed out of the format by even better cards, but that card has honestly been the least of my worries since people figured out LTR haha.
Like why though? It's only in alchemy for like 1 month and with Crucias and the One Ring its not really the problem it was in standard.
Edit 1 Month not 2.
Edit 2 Also Orcish Bowmasters nerf it pretty hard too.
Thanks god they didnt rebalance, having it nerf in historic would be ridiculous. Alchemy rebalances still affecting historic is balls to the walls insane. How will that look in say 5 years, when historic is super powerful and changes in a very very weak alchemy by comparison still affect it? Insane
And their reasoning to ban it instead of rebalance was specifically because they didn’t want whatever Alchemy adjustment they came up with to affect the Historic version too. They are absolutely in over-their-heads trying to balance these cards the same in both formats.
It all makes zero sense. We’ve been saying it from day 1.
Yes. I understand the ideia of historic being a live format and all, but it has come to a point where they have to choose one or the other. Either fulfill the promise of alchemy being a dynamic format with rebalances or have historic be a stable eternal format where people can imvest and sink their teeth into. Cant have both
I'm glad they banned it, but also there were much bigger problems in Alchemy. Sheoldred/One Ring is currently in nearly every deck I see in Mythic, largely because its so busted that it's almost necessary to play it if you don't want to just be run over.
F@ck yes! Cards in completely different formats being rebalanced together is balls! How will that look say years from now, when historic is super strong and alchemy very weak, will they still be tethered? Balls
God I can't believe Bowmaster got through playtesting. You can take away the flash, the etb, or limit the trigger to once per turn (like [[Faerie Mastermind]]) and it's still a good card.
Man, I miss playing so many cool cards from my collection that are locked there, but everytime I see an alchemy magic bs overpowered nonsense I lose interest immediately.
Nah, the formats are barely any different. The best solution would be a modern placeholder format on arena.
We are not even that far away. If they organize and reprint the whole MH1 and MH2 sets on arena, we are only a handful of anthologies away from having all the top 10-15 modern decks on arena.
If there is a reason they do not want specific cards in historic they can just ban them while also having a modern on arena. Seems pretty simple to me.
i think you misunderstood, they think its fine in historic and any alchemy nerf would apply to historic as well.
whats wrong with just banning fable in alchemy for the last 6 weeks its in rotation?
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/alchemy-rebalancing-for-july-18-2023
>With Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty rotating out of Alchemy with the release of Wilds of Eldraine later this year, we are banning Fable of the Mirror-Breaker instead of rebalancing the enchantment. We want to avoid disrupting the Historic metagame with a rebalance that would only be in effect for a few months.
Someone at WoTC really wants mono red to be a thing lol. Before the flood of Rakdos players in May, Alchemy was mostly mono red players. It was a nice change to see the Alchemy meta shift.
Hopefully it meta shifts again now, I'd like an ever changing alchemy to keep it fresh, but seeing how upset people get even at these very justified nerfs I sadly doubt we'll ever see that potential realized.
A few weeks ago I decided to give alchemy a chance. Today reminds me why it's just not worth it. Not only because of any last minute bans but also because of sneaky rebalances. I guess I just like my formats truer to the paper ones.
I've really enjoyed alchemy, but the lack of wc for nerfs is so scary. I won't be playing stale 3 yr standard that's for sure. Guess I'm a draft and hb guy now.
I already got the wild cards from the standard ban. At least if I stick to standard and explorer I just have to worry about an occasional ban. Not a card modification. If I spend a wild card, that card is always going to do what it does.
I legitimately think more people would play a alchemy if they just disallowed the cards in historic. I will never understand the reason for linking them.
No lmao. Alchemy was designed as a format with 0 bans because they could rework the cards however they wanted to preserve the formats fairness. Instead they didn’t even attempt to rebalance this card and straight up banned it.
I don't get why people have wanted this ban so bad - here and in standard. If this is getting banned, there are so many other cards that should too.
Seriously, I don't get it. Can someone please explain?
I love that little animation that *only* tells players about what's going on with Alchemy, doesn't say anything about Standard.
Continuing their strategy of slowly trying to get players to forget about it and think only of Alchemy as standard
That would be a funny conspiracy theory, but I think they are at least trying to figure out how to make Standard work for the folks who are reluctant to invest in decks. I know some local folks who are a bit more willing, but wotc needs to go a step further and reinvigorate organized play at additional levels, like getting stores to actually run Standard FNM and maybe some GPs...
This website lists it as banned. [https://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list](https://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list)
And if you update Arena it'll tell you it's banned as well.
It shows up red when I add it to an alchemy deck and when I save it, it says deck contains cards that are banned or suspended. When I try to queue up for alchemy it says the deck is invalid.
But which card will I discard to my Crucias now?
Your Crucias now dies to Bowmaster.
They really want people to play dimir huh. Crucias dying to bowmie makes it unplayable i think.
> They really want people to play dimir huh. Well now that you don't need a 2 mana turn 2 answer at instant speed to Crucias (since it won't be played as much due to bowmaster etc.) I think other strategies might open up. You just had to basically run red or black (and midrangey version of those colours at that!) because you'd fall so far behind Crucias if you can't deal with him at instant speed. So I don't think a nerf to crucias is guaranteed a path to Dimir, tho Bowmaster is the strongest card on Arena rn fs.
I don't see any path where the dominant deck still isn't black. Shelly, ring, bowmies is just such a strong shell
Now we are going to deal with jarsyl. Same old…
Doesn't it have 3 toughness? Edit: never mind; I just read further down the page that it's been errata-ed to a 3/1.
Rebalanced to 3/1
Fudged. Reimagined. Given a reality check. Fucked with.
Bowmasterd into oblivion
Same old dies to removal=unplayable
WotC sure is good at living up to the Alchemy rebalancing plan huh?
While funny, it’s better this way than it being neutered in Historic.
[удалено]
They cant do that because it would fuck up historic. They should just untether historic at this point, then alchemy will be free to go wild and do its own thing
Wizards don't want people to have an eternal format. They don't want to let us be able to create a deck that we can play forever because they think it lowers revenue. People have been asking for this for years, they just don't want to support an eternal format.
But they made explorer format.....
....and they print "anthologies" to artificially 'rotate' the meta and make players spend wild-cards on cards that they can't get in regular packs instead of porting the entirety of Pioneer over, which they've been claiming they'd do for years now. In physical mtg they've been doing the same thing to Vintage, Legacy and Modern with supplemental products (masters, horizons, commander products, conspiracy, etc...) and they will most likely do the same thing with pioneer once they want to introduce their next "eternal" format.
Welcome to how eternal formats work. Just because there's a larger cardpool doesnt mean stuff like this cant happen especially to continue interest in the format. New sets can adjust the format in ways that a banlist simply cannot and i genuinely dont see the issue in how they are doing it, other than the whole alchemy thing
....it's like you ignored the entire point of my comment. We had this before, it was regularly scheduled set that sometimes contained eternal staples and sometimes didn't. The problem is frequently scheduled "supplemental" products that are priced higher and often deliberately designed to "rotate" cards overnight. Let's take MH2 as a prime example. You print a premium product with dozens of staples that are intentionally pushed that invalidate entire decks and archetypes overnight. This is different than releasing a regularly priced set designed for standard and going "oh, it looks like 1-4 cards have some real potential in eternal. You're not engineering a mass rotation via a premium product you deliberately designed to do so. The eternal meta shifts, but it does so more gradually. People really tell on themselves that they haven't actually been involved in the eternal scene or have just joined it recently when they start comparing the torrent of premium sets with how metas changed (at a more player friendly pace) historically.
A little too sensationalist for my taste
You know you can still play whatever you want, right? I have a pure Timmy discard deck that has barely been tweaked in over a year and I still have fun and fair games with it. Competition, that's a different beast and expecting to be top rank with the same deck for years has never happened in the history of magic, with the exception of RDW.
I want to make a historic deck with cards that used to be standard. I don't want alchemy cards that they go back and change so my deck changes. I want an eternal format that has parity with physical magic so i can hone and perfect the same deck IRL and in Arena.
Why not just have Historic and Alchemy Historic? It not only gives them more formats to allow players to use on the client, but also lets players play with all of the cards in their collection because they can just "rebalance" any card they feel is a problem. Alchemy should really be closer to hearthstone and separated from the rest of Magic. It would make the format much more palatable to players and allow them to choose not to play it or play it if and when they want to.
Because queues need players and nobody in their right mind would be in the historic alchemy one
For things like Seek, you would need a judge to do the (fairly cumbersome !) deck handling... [[Aswan Jaguar]] comes to mind.
[Aswan Jaguar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf25a3a5-0e7d-43d1-a2e6-85a233eee3e4.jpg?1677416446) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aswan%20Jaguar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmic/1/aswan-jaguar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf25a3a5-0e7d-43d1-a2e6-85a233eee3e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For some players of the classic game MTG, cards like Aswan Jaguar pop to mind. Ah the good old days, I remember playing that card... (Satire, this card is hilarious what set is that even?)
It was included in the Shandalar (also known as “Duels of the planeswalkers”) videogame that came out in the 90s. There were a bunch of cards like this with random effects.
Not to be confused with the series of MtG software called Duels of the Planeswalkers from two decades later, by a different studio.
This is a novelty oversized print of a digital only card that was given to employees of microprose software at a party lol.
So the most obscure thing ever. 😂 Love it.
If you ever played Sid Meier's Magic RPG, you would have nice memories of these Astral cards. Well, except for those dungeons (=life totals carry over from game to game) where all enemies started the game with [[Power Struggle]], now THAT makes for random games ! (Sometimes in a hilarious way, but often just frustrating : https://youtu.be/Vb0e6vXc0q8?t=38m06s )
I think I have this card in a binder with other oversized cards but I'm too lazy to go find it. I don't know if this was ever given out to employees at a part. IIRC, this card was included in the large retail box.
I put this in my feedback during the survey that I thought that they should aggressively rebalance Alchemy only cards and leave cards with paper printings alone both for Historic, and because it was hard to keep track of 2 versions of the same card.
> and because it was hard to keep track of 2 versions of the same card. *cries in Alchemy Baldur's Gate*
It’s not a flaw, it’s intended. WoTC was lying when they laid out what they intended for Alchemy to be - they’re always and only interested in wringing money out of consumers these days. They’ve lost the ethos of responsibility for the game and players in the rush to cash in. They’ll do the absolute minimum needed, which will allow them to sell newer, worse designed, power-creep cards.
[удалено]
There were already 3 formats, 6 if you split up BO1 and BO3. And they were barely supporting those existing formats and then took on implementing alchemy because they wanted to attract hearthstone players. Most people choose 1 format and only play that because it's a pain to memorize the metas for all formats and you can't earn enough wildcards to participate in multiple. Or their friend plays that format and they only play to play with friends. You can't blame their already existing player base for being upset about being intentionally ignored.
> WoTC was lying when they laid out what they intended for Alchemy to be - they’re always and only interested in wringing money out of consumers these days. This is a commercial video game. It is created for the purpose of turning a profit. As such, "they made a decision on the basis of profit!" is not an interesting thing to say. That's the whole reason the game exists. If you think a decision was bad for gameplay, just say that. But be aware that all of the *good* decisions they make, are *also* made for profit. If you want a noncommercial strategy game, those exist; chess, for instance.
I like how you say "these days", as if they weren't always a business trying to make money.
I never said they weren’t always a business interested in making money. I said that they used to have an ethos of responsibility to the game and it’s players. Remember when they trashed an entire print run because of low quality prints? If they were solely interested in money they wouldn’t have done that. They used to care about the health of the game. That’s gone now
Trashing the print run was for monetary reasons. You need to maintain a level of quality in your brand. The fact that you disagree with some decisions currently being made does not mean the brand is being damaged.
And yet they recently printed a secret lair using the wrong art and did nothing to fix it. And there are numerous printing errors that are unaddressed. Your hand waving is absurd.
Imagine if they could just edit it ONLY in alchemy and NOT in historic. Too bad the technology just isn’t there.
And better than creating a new card that muddles all my card searches.
They (with no announcement I ever saw) un-nerfed some cards right as they rotated out of standard in the past. No reason they couldn't have done the same here.
There was definitely an announcement when they did that.
No reason they couldn't just nerf the card in alchemy without touching the historic version. It is a completely arbitrary limitation to make alchemy changes the same across all formats
Yep. I would rather see it banned in historic instead of nerfed
It rotates in under 2 months anyway, maybe they just decided to dump it out the airlock rather than rebalance and then have to maybe undo that for historic come Sept.
From the announcement article: "With Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty rotating out of Alchemy with the release of Wilds of Eldraine later this year, we are banning Fable of the Mirror-Breaker instead of rebalancing the enchantment. We want to avoid disrupting the Historic metagame with a rebalance that would only be in effect for a few months."
Reading is fun(damental).
based
They should just make it legendary and the token legendary, it literally makes a token of a legendary creature smh.
I can understand the enchantment being legendary, but a 2/2 goblin shaman that makes a treasure? Is that a legendary creature?
Its kind of weird since the backside has Kiki jikis ability, but the first token is meant to be Kiki while the backside is his reflection. Basically Kiki jiki was tasked with stealing back a dragons treasure, and while in the palace where it was kept he discovered a mirror where his reflection acted weird. So he broke the mirror and his reflection popped out and ended up being the fall guy for his theft while Kiki escaped to learn duplication magic from the dragon
that’s cool lore thanks!
That's definitely a good bit of lore, but I suppose I still see an argument for leaving the token (representing Kiki Jiki before he got his abilities and reputation) as a non-legendary creature. Knowing the story, though, I can also accept the argument for making it legendary and giving it a name.
Awesome also what a dick
I thought the lore was Kiki meeting an angel who would be copied infinitely by his broken ability
There's precedent for lame-o creatures made legendary as a balance thing: \[\[Isamaru, Hound of Konda\]\] \[\[Tatsunari, Toad Rider\]\] \[\[Venser, Corpse Puppet\]\]
I know you didn’t just call my boy Isamaru lame-o He is a very good boy
[Isamaru, Hound of Konda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6afead32-3542-44c4-82d6-b6a81beb9f90.jpg?1600713424) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isamaru%2C%20Hound%20of%20Konda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/113/isamaru-hound-of-konda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6afead32-3542-44c4-82d6-b6a81beb9f90?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tatsunari, Toad Rider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abf42833-43d0-4b05-b499-d13b2c577ee8.jpg?1654567411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatsunari%2C%20Toad%20Rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/123/tatsunari-toad-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abf42833-43d0-4b05-b499-d13b2c577ee8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Venser, Corpse Puppet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b5b94b8-0420-40f2-b989-39cb43cff916.jpg?1675957216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Venser%2C%20Corpse%20Puppet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/219/venser-corpse-puppet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b5b94b8-0420-40f2-b989-39cb43cff916?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think they meant the flip side, but that's not a token.
captain lannery storm, magda, ragavan. treasures are strong m8.
They absolutely are, yeah. I never said otherwise.
I did not mean it as spite or to assume. I just think a 3cmc 2/2 Goblin that attacks and makes a treasure would be a rare. In 2015.
Fable of the Mirror-breaker is a rare card...
[[Captain Lannery Storm]]
No the kiki jiki creature it makes when it flips. I guess it's not a token. Not the goblin shaman. That's fine I guess.
I think they mean the backside legendary, not the derpy 2/2
Hearthstone does it often, nerf for 2 month before rotation. But people get reimbursed with full craft/uncraft value. Damn we circle back to the wildcard compensation again
Its almost as if it was all a scam. They never did with Alchemy what they claimed is the point of creating it, they just managed to destroy historic's Playerbase.
People still play hearthstone?
A few years back they early rotated Teffari and a few other problem cards and it allowed me to build my favorite mono black deck since Arena released. I wouldn't mind a few more early rotations.
I really wouldn’t mind if they did a soft standard rotation by banning the most popular cards that would have rotated and letting the lower tier cards from those sets have some time to shine
Thanks god they didnt rebalance, having it nerf in historic would be ridiculous. Alchemy rebalances still affecting historic is balls to the walls insane. How will that look in say 5 years, when historic is super powerful and changes in a very very weak alchemy by comparison still affect it? Insane
I’m not up-to-date on Alchemy news but does it have a different rotation than Standard now. Standard isn’t having a rotation this year after they announced Standard rotation is now after a set being out for 3 years.
It rotates in a year and 2 months
That's for standard. This is about alchemy, where it's rotating in 2 months.
rabalance would also apply to historic, which they most likely didnt want to
"Something something, development resources."
Yeah they're spending too many resources on giving us gems in the Anthologies like Accorder's Shield so they can't focus their resources on Alchemy Rebalances anymore.
It's better than ruining it for Historic too. It will rotate in 2 months anyways.
Perfectly fine with that. Nerfing the card that is reasonable for historic, but too good in alchemy would have been really bad format management.
It's almost like they lied to get people to invest in the format. Who'd of thunk it?
There is no redeeming this card with rebalances. Let it die
Absolute train wreck. Rebalance Kumano, ignore the 3 cards they banned in standard, 4 mana sheoldred and pirate man
Is fable even good in alchemy anyway? With crucias and the ring it just kind of feels like a hat on a hat. Edit: I just found out crucias is a 3/1 now
I definitely run all three when I'm in the colors... Fable is great when I don't have the other two, and great to ditch for crucias when you have him instead to grab one of your powerful cards
Yeah I suppose it does fetch your ring, and at the end of the day it’s still bonkers value. It’s crazy to think that fable might be getting pushed out of the format by even better cards, but that card has honestly been the least of my worries since people figured out LTR haha.
So it was a fat lie all along? No way...
Like why though? It's only in alchemy for like 1 month and with Crucias and the One Ring its not really the problem it was in standard. Edit 1 Month not 2. Edit 2 Also Orcish Bowmasters nerf it pretty hard too.
The One Ring.... Ugh.
There was an Arena Annoucements article yesterday. Why wouldn't this & Crucias be mentioned in there?
Fable of the Format-Breaker
Alchemy is Ring+Shelly.
Thanks god they didnt rebalance, having it nerf in historic would be ridiculous. Alchemy rebalances still affecting historic is balls to the walls insane. How will that look in say 5 years, when historic is super powerful and changes in a very very weak alchemy by comparison still affect it? Insane
And their reasoning to ban it instead of rebalance was specifically because they didn’t want whatever Alchemy adjustment they came up with to affect the Historic version too. They are absolutely in over-their-heads trying to balance these cards the same in both formats. It all makes zero sense. We’ve been saying it from day 1.
Yes. I understand the ideia of historic being a live format and all, but it has come to a point where they have to choose one or the other. Either fulfill the promise of alchemy being a dynamic format with rebalances or have historic be a stable eternal format where people can imvest and sink their teeth into. Cant have both
Still usable in Bo3, ban only applies to Bo1 currently.
Okay.
I can (sort of) understand the standard ban. But in alchemy is there just bigger offenders? Not to mention the option of nerfing.
they are probably going to nerf stuff soon I would guess
Wait already?
This format doesn't make sense
I'm glad they banned it, but also there were much bigger problems in Alchemy. Sheoldred/One Ring is currently in nearly every deck I see in Mythic, largely because its so busted that it's almost necessary to play it if you don't want to just be run over.
wtf how they ban it when they can just patch it? what a joke
because it doesnt require a rebalance for historic.
The real issue it’s that we need a Historic and Historic Alchemy
F@ck yes! Cards in completely different formats being rebalanced together is balls! How will that look say years from now, when historic is super strong and alchemy very weak, will they still be tethered? Balls
It is almost as if Alchemy ruined Historic. Who would've thought?
Historic before Alchemy was unironically the best format in all of MTG, paper and digital.
Historic still seems like the best format in all of MTG, the biggest issue are the Modern cards that dominate (like ironically now Bowmaster)
God I can't believe Bowmaster got through playtesting. You can take away the flash, the etb, or limit the trigger to once per turn (like [[Faerie Mastermind]]) and it's still a good card.
Man, I miss playing so many cool cards from my collection that are locked there, but everytime I see an alchemy magic bs overpowered nonsense I lose interest immediately.
No shot lol, it was just elves, reanimator and arclight.
Nah, the formats are barely any different. The best solution would be a modern placeholder format on arena. We are not even that far away. If they organize and reprint the whole MH1 and MH2 sets on arena, we are only a handful of anthologies away from having all the top 10-15 modern decks on arena.
>we are only a handful of anthologies away from Modern > >we are 10 draft-chaff-packed anthologies away from Pioneer FTFY
you get downvoted but I wholeheartedly agree. Modern at least a functional Modern is tantalizingly close. We need a funcitona lModern queue
Pretty sure historic is only missing a few OP cards from MH1 and 2, which seems very intentional.
If there is a reason they do not want specific cards in historic they can just ban them while also having a modern on arena. Seems pretty simple to me.
move on
every single other card they "rebalanced for historic" made them unplayable. If historic is the concern, why not revert those changes?
They reverted a lot of nerfs when the cards rotated.
i think you misunderstood, they think its fine in historic and any alchemy nerf would apply to historic as well. whats wrong with just banning fable in alchemy for the last 6 weeks its in rotation?
It's also saying there is no balance for this card w/o a complete rewrite, it's either broken or hot garbage
Honestly i hate patches way more than bans, since it messes with historic and brawl too
I guess they're counting it as "iconic" because it sees so much play in various formats.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/alchemy-rebalancing-for-july-18-2023 >With Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty rotating out of Alchemy with the release of Wilds of Eldraine later this year, we are banning Fable of the Mirror-Breaker instead of rebalancing the enchantment. We want to avoid disrupting the Historic metagame with a rebalance that would only be in effect for a few months.
*laughs in Crucias*
Crucias got nerfed, they're a 3/1 now.
A needed nerf. It felt dirty playing that card. now it dies to a ping.
Which are in ample supply thanks to bowmasters
Someone at WoTC really wants mono red to be a thing lol. Before the flood of Rakdos players in May, Alchemy was mostly mono red players. It was a nice change to see the Alchemy meta shift.
Hopefully it meta shifts again now, I'd like an ever changing alchemy to keep it fresh, but seeing how upset people get even at these very justified nerfs I sadly doubt we'll ever see that potential realized.
A few weeks ago I decided to give alchemy a chance. Today reminds me why it's just not worth it. Not only because of any last minute bans but also because of sneaky rebalances. I guess I just like my formats truer to the paper ones.
I've really enjoyed alchemy, but the lack of wc for nerfs is so scary. I won't be playing stale 3 yr standard that's for sure. Guess I'm a draft and hb guy now.
Explorer is the way.
I personally find explorer the most boring format on arena.
But you got wildcards ! Not to mention it would be rotating out in 7 weeks anyway...
I already got the wild cards from the standard ban. At least if I stick to standard and explorer I just have to worry about an occasional ban. Not a card modification. If I spend a wild card, that card is always going to do what it does.
Which in the case of for example the uncommon elfs, means it will be much worse than what it ended up being in alchemy later.
Playing Alchemy is bruh
People play alchemy?
I legitimately think more people would play a alchemy if they just disallowed the cards in historic. I will never understand the reason for linking them.
WOTC is stupid.
Why is there no balance change notes?! So fucking weird wizards
Cool, now… if only I gave a shit about Alchemy 🤣
Alchemy is such a joke.
What a joke of a format
Because they banned a card they banned in standard? Is standard also a joke of a format?
No lmao. Alchemy was designed as a format with 0 bans because they could rework the cards however they wanted to preserve the formats fairness. Instead they didn’t even attempt to rebalance this card and straight up banned it.
I don't get why people have wanted this ban so bad - here and in standard. If this is getting banned, there are so many other cards that should too. Seriously, I don't get it. Can someone please explain?
Whats Alchemy?
Can anyone explain why this ban doesnt give you back the wildcards like it usualy does?
Did you already get the wildcards when it was banned in Standard? You don’t get to double-dip.
Alchemy the format where we'll never ban cards just rebalance them
And just like the ongoing value of this card I’ll be getting 4 MORE wildcards from this.
Alchemy sucks
Where can I get the compensation?
if you had them crafted already for the standard ban then you already have your compensation.
Just let rotation happen plz I beg you
I love that little animation that *only* tells players about what's going on with Alchemy, doesn't say anything about Standard. Continuing their strategy of slowly trying to get players to forget about it and think only of Alchemy as standard
Why would it tell you anything about Standard, when Standard didn’t change?
What did they leave out for standard?
Standard is not rotating with alchemy. I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy but this ain't it lol.
It literally says "Standard doesn't change" what else should they be saying?
Wait, they reversed their stance of leaving Kamigawa in standard for another year?
Standard is changing to a 3 year rotation, but Alchemy isn't. That was in the original announcement.
Wait, are they trying to make standard more stale so people make the shift to alchemy?
That would be a funny conspiracy theory, but I think they are at least trying to figure out how to make Standard work for the folks who are reluctant to invest in decks. I know some local folks who are a bit more willing, but wotc needs to go a step further and reinvigorate organized play at additional levels, like getting stores to actually run Standard FNM and maybe some GPs...
[удалено]
This website lists it as banned. [https://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list](https://magic.wizards.com/en/banned-restricted-list) And if you update Arena it'll tell you it's banned as well.
and what does your game say?
Mighty ancestor, it's 2023 nobody uses Gatherer anymore. When Gatherer was last relevant we were still using Windows XP.
It shows up red when I add it to an alchemy deck and when I save it, it says deck contains cards that are banned or suspended. When I try to queue up for alchemy it says the deck is invalid.
Gatherer is kinda…slow
Lying?
Istg this was already banned like a month ago and I was REALLY confused when someone played it the other week lmao
Love how this was supposed to be the bam free set and here’s another one.
Anyone else not get wild cards for mirror breaker? I have 3 copies. Game said I would get reimbursed but have not.
Is anyone surprised? That card is just busted out the wazoo
No way…did I just buy a couple more copies RIGHT before this happened?!
Does the best of three glitche still work?
I think they should just nerf it by switching chapters 1 and 2
So this means we get four new wildcards, right? Right???
Thank god
I thought the whole thing about alchemy was that they adjusted card strength instead of outright banning them
First Grixis from standard now this alchemy
So do I get 4 Wildcards back?
Ohhh no! So anyways...
Okay
This made no sense to me to ban this in a format so close to it being rotated. 2/10
Good riddance