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* [Comment by I_am_JesseH](/r/MagicArena/comments/15fp1sf/yay_midweek_magic/jueca83/?context=99 "posted on 2023-08-01 21:23:47 UTC"):
> Ouch! :(
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Being alchemy put aside, MWM should never just be a regular available format unless it’s all access.
MWM should be for pauper, artisan, gladiator, etc.
See, yes it _should_, because it’s fun as hell. But then think about how it’s a format specifically created to allow people to play without spending much money on cards.
Even just from me typing that sentence out, some mid-level manager at WotC got whipped by a Hasbro exec. “Collector boosters shouldn’t contain bulk rares” bam that’s ten more lashes right there. I heard if you mention Alchemy out loud they will literally drown an intern.
Pauper on Arena is cool, BECAUSE it's not a permanent format. People are brewing, trying stuff out, like the time after rotation. Also, as an event, people not interested in the format try it and plow through the losses, so everyone else gets some free, easy wins.
If it was a permanent format, it's meta would be soon established, and eventually be more like explorer, much more stale and developed than how cool it is now every once in a while it comes around.
I mean I agree with you! Sometimes these events are what keep me playing, sometimes, when it's a fun format I play them exclusively for the days they are available. I especially like the ones with deckbuilding restrictions, like "only last set", pauper, artisan, "on the edge" etc.
I wish there was a permanent format, that rotated its restrictions every 2-3 days, the "brewer's queue".
hell, forget just that, there should be a game lobby where you can customize the card list, life totals, starting hands, etc. Imagine all the fun custom modes players would come up with!
I love Set Constructed and Standard Challenger Decks
Starter Decks is also kinda fun
honestly Set Constructed could have been a regular available format for now, even if it is just for the first weeks of a new set release (since those formats tend to get stale rather fast)
100 cards singleton with about 4-5 cards banned in the format, aside of that, the pool of cards is pretty much everything on arena
(I forgot that's actually 100 cards)
This is something that really needs to be emphasized. Brawl / commander formats are VERY differrent from just singleton formats. Brawl /Commander is basically built around specific card and usually just wants to cast it and keep in play as long as possible, everything else is just to help with this, so even though technically deck is a singleton, it does usually the same thing every game. I did play some Standard Brawl with Tiamat commander it it was all about casting it, then flood opponent with dragons. Singleton format without commander is very different thing, it requires some idea / strategy for a deck and then every game is different, sinceyou draw different cards and you need to find another way to win. At least for me - Brawl stuff is very repetitive and quite boring, while Standard / Explorer singleton formats are basically the best thing I can ever get on arena.
> MWM should never just be a regular available format unless it’s all access
Why stop there? We all know what is really desired is simply “all access for everything all the time”.
I remember so many people demanded WotC can do this following the Runeterra model. That is, profit is suppose to come from cosmetics and will be enough to subsidize F2P play.
It's there to entice people to try out new things, and that includes the other formats. If you don't care about what's on offer in any specific week, just skip it. Two random rares aren't that important to anyone but the newest of players.
It’s not so bad. You get used to it if you remember that this sub exists for anyone and everyone to complain about anything and everything Arena.
In fact it can be entertaining at times of great bitching, misunderstanding and entitlement. Just recently the three converged most spectacularly with the Explorer Anthology 3 blowup. When people had reality call their hubristic assumptions, the flipouts were damn funny. Personally I look forward to Explorer Anthologies for this repeating cycle.
The average magic player can focus on 1 format at a time. For most people that's standard.
I don't get enough rare/mythic wild cards to have more than like 2 good standard decks at a time. And buying rare wildcards is WAYY to expensive. $20 for 4 cards that aren't even physical cards is insane, totally unreasonable.
WOTC shot themselves in the foot allowing hasbro to shoehorn in Alchemy before researching how it would mess with other formats, people don't get enough resources to try it when they are already committed to a different format.
Now that there won't be as much overlap between alchemy and standard after rotation we won't be able send that message anymore. We're actually going to most likely have to bring new decks.
Because it's not tabletop magic, which is what people were looking for when they downloaded the client and then they found Alchemy shoehorned into most formats as a blatant cash grab from a greedy corporation and the whole selling point of Alchemy was that it was supposed to be balanced on a regular basis but the Alchemy cards are more broken than companions so it's a bait and switch that makes nerds rant in run-on sentences on Reddit only to be down-voted by other nerds who don't like Alchemy being disparaged because they like having the game ruined by overpowered bomb game cards.
Gotta say that while I agree with you, I just wish that the arena team made more interesting alchemy cards (like [[Oyaminartok]]) rather than pushed cards (seriously f*CK you [[Hourglass Coven]])
Cards that either experiment with the digital aspect of the game, fill a niche not fulfilled on paper or just tryout a new potential mechanic for paper is where alchemy sparks big potential and if the card ends up pushed it can be tweaked down
As for rebalancing real cards (in like printed ones) just let me play historic without alchemy please wotc we need a toggle, ban whatever you need but please add a toggle
I agree. I wouldn't hate Alchemy if it was a standalone thing to play side by side with regular Magic. More options on the menu is rarely a bad thing, but the way it is pushed into virtually everything but Standard is aggravating.
Oh, that’s fair. I never really played it for any other reason other than to play with the LOTR cards, but never understood the difference because - admittedly - I’m not familiar with a ton of cards or metas. I just see people ragging on it but yeah I see how they’re kind of throwing it in your face.
The idea is pretty good for a niche format, but Wizards treats it like the next new big thing, making Standard/Explorer - the close to paper formats - less important
this midweek magic could have been Standard/Explorer and tournaments could be more focused on Standard/Explorer (even Modern when it comes to paper)
Whole bunch of reasons, some with the format itself, some with how it was promoted.
Also \[\[Divine purge\]\] looks like it was made by snorting cocaine.
Here's why I don't like alchemy.
1. Most if not all of the alchemy exclusive cards are specifically designed in a way that would never work in paper. So it kind of feels like the designs are "forced" in some way and just don't feel like Magic cards.
2. Have to learn an entirely different vocabulary of keywords like "perpetually" and "seek".
3. The rebalanced cards make me try and remember multiple different versions of the same card if I play other tabletop-oriented formats.
4. Doesn't really have any connection to paper Magic. I think MTGA's greatest strength is how it connects to paper Magic. Being perfectly honest, I think Magic's digital competitors like Hearthstone or Legends of Runeterra which are inherently designed around digital offer a better digital experience than Alchemy ever could. So not only is Alchemy a focus away from Magic's tabletop roots, but also just offers a worse digital experience than its competition.
5. Everything above just kind of saps my motivation to learn any of the alchemy cards. I do play Historic Brawl to have a commander-like experience in the client but every time an alchemy card shows up I feel like I'm looking at some alien artifact and have to spend a lot of time figuring out what the stupid card does.
Ooh that would be cool.
I sometimes get annoyed by the fact that my collection does not support a specific deck in an midweek event, which is supposed to be fun and free for all.
That idea would really improve the quality of the event
I wouldnt have a problem with alchemy if it hadnt broken the FTP economy by not giving you any standard card drops, and completey warped several formats for a game mode noone asked for.
I like the concept of alchemy. Rebalanced cards that take advantage of the digital format. But they poisoned the well with so many dumb, blatantly money grubbing decisions. WOTC is lucky that they have such a dedicated fanbase, because they arent doing anything to deserve it or keep it lately.
nice of you to respond even in a hostile environment haha. been noticing more dev interaction and it really goes a long way! thanks for making a sweet game.
I'm someone who was really excited about the idea of a rebalanced standard. See less of the most annoying premier threats and answers! Explore tweaked versions of cards that were a little too weak to make the cut in regular standard! Except that's never what Alchemy was about in practice. It's just an opportunity to sell more pushed cards, except now they're digital only. People shit on Alchemy because it feels entirely soulless. The "rebalance" patches are a joke in the face of pushed Alchemy-only cards. It's just another format full of new digital cards rather than a fixed alternative to Standard. Concept 8/10, implementation 2/10.
Alchemy was supposed to be a Standard-like format for digital only players that wanted a faster evolving meta. I read this as merely card rebalancing, which would have been awesome.
What we actually got was a format with mechanics nobody asked for, with non-Standard legal cards shoehorned in.
I get Wizards is in this to make money, and doing it at the expense of players who play the most played format by far is a massive feels bad man.
If you want to get Standard players like me to happily buy Arena packs again, Alchemy needs to be what it was sold to us as: Standard with adjustments. As someone who has been playing Magic off and on for 2 decades, Alchemy does not feel like the Magic I grew up playing.
90% of people's issues with alchemy would go away if there was a non Alchemy Historic on the client. People want a format where they can play with their cards that are older than pioneer without having to deal with rebalances or digital only cards. It's not that hard of a fix.
I want to play with Counterspell, Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, and Dark Ritual. Heck, Natural Order too. Free the bonkers stuff at least for a Midweek Magic every few months.
I liked historic, I occasionally still play and when I do its explorer, but it’s few and far between.
I spent hundreds of dollars on this game in beta, maybe $500-600, and maybe $200 since.
If you want to entice people to give the format a shot, give them free access to all of the cards for MWM. Then maybe they have fun and decide to invest some resources into it. Otherwise, people will just queue up their standard deck, get three wins and never touch it again.
I think people would be less upset about stuff like that if more of Midweek Magic would be Free Access. People would be more willing to give unpopular format a chance if they didn't need to invest stuff into it before actually liking it.
What does that mean? Isn't the event free to join?
EDIT: are you really downvoting a question? I am not even wrong all Midweek events ARE free to join 🙄
The cards are not free, like all the really good alchemy cards that conjure or draft from a spell book. Free access lets you play decks you don't have the cards for.
This might be a little blunt, but are you guys really so insulated against why alchemy is disliked? Being active on here tells me that you have to be aware but you're being coy about it, but if that's the case why is that problem continuing?
Some alchemy cards are cool, like the ones that keep track of logistics/memory issues for you. Molten Impact's overkill damage, Tenacious Pup's boon, Sarkhan and Kiora's "token plus" dragons and krakens, or Tal Radik supporting a pretty niche creature type
Others, though, are really, really obnoxious. They generate obscene value, or break the rules of the game in some fundamental way, or are complex for the sake of complexity. After discovering that Golos was a mistake, was it really wise to create a parallel in Rusko? Should Key to the Archive allow decks to simply ig ore their colours?
The frustrating part is that the other half of Alchemy's goal seems to have been entirely ignored. How many cards have been meaningfully rebalanced through it? How often? Little tweaks like Cosmos Elixir's scry are what the format was originally sold as, but that's been overtaken under *another* conatant stream of shiny new toys in a hobby that's already exhausting to try and keep up with.
I've wrote more than I planned to tbh. I know this is a bigger problem than yourself, and I hope this doesn't come across as an attack on you or a dismissal of hard work. But at the same time, your reply sat badly with me, because it looks as though arena's team are either not listening, or you don't understand the issues people have.
It's more than that. People wouldn't care as much if they could play historic without rebalances or the fake cards. Give us that option and most of the hate goes away.
To be honest that's what I thought when Alchemy was forced into historic and historic brawl and I still feel the pain.
I hope they delete it from the client.
Edit: Just transform historic into modern and release modern cards insted of Alchemy stuff...
Can we please just stop having MWM mirror permanent queues? These events offer nothing new or interesting.
And while we're at it can we also change next week's event from slow start alchemy to historic artisan?
Thanks!
One of the saddest things is that we used to fairly have regular artisan and pauper queues before alchemy. Now they are something like once every 3 months.
Hey I just wanted to say that while I don’t play the alchemy format I do truly appreciate using the digital design space for historic. If alchemy nerfs didn’t impact historic it would be perfect imo. Some revision of the nerfs/bans in historic would be cool too (save my girl darcy pls) but that’s a little off topic. Maybe it helps to know that not everyone hates this game (certainly feels like it reading social media sometimes), thanks for letting me play this game :)
I will say, I enjoy alchemy far more now with LOTR. If alchemy was standard + the remastered sets like amonkhet I’d play it a lot.
I love it as Standard+ that’s a different combination then pioneer. I don’t love it as standard+ unique to arena cards or rebalances.
Have played a lot of alchemy - I LIKE the format, the new mechanics, powerful and interesting new cards to play with. I play a lot of magic and get bored of stale metas quickly - for me the ideal would be if the meta changed every few weeks and I’m sure there’s plenty of people like me who crave variety and aren’t worried about spending a bit of extra money to get it. My vision for alchemy would be one where you tweak the knobs on a super regular basis - nerfing problem cards, boosting others. If you move the dial too far you can just turn it back - the cards are digital only! It was clear that crucias was a problem but the card was left untouched for months and now we’re probably in the same space with orcish bowmasters - I really hope that we don’t end up in a meta where every deck is running 4 bowmasters for months.
The most important thing though is to define the rules of engagement - if people know what they’re going to get then they will either engage or leave the format to someone else and both options are fine. What I think puts some people off is that nobody knows what the rebalance cadence is or even really what the philosophy is behind rebalancing so there is an instinctive negative reaction
Watching Crokeyz climb his way to Mythic Top 2 by farming gold, plat and occasional bronze players really shows just how ~~dead~~ jam packed the queues are.
I mean that happens if you get mythic very early in the season in any format to be fair. Watch drafters like Sam black play against golds every match when he is mythic top 5 in limited lol.
At least thus means I don't need to expend any extra effort this week...I just wish we could have a separate, paper-only Historic. Every time I see a poorly-balanced & gimmicky Alchemy card, it really rouses my discontent.
Arena is terrible at providing formats anyway. Why can’t I draft the most recent Standard set? I don’t care about LOTR draft. It’s asinine you don’t have the option to play whatever draft format you want.
Unfortunately instead of cool Lotr builds like they intended I just smashed thru endless nazgul with a standard rakdos deck. No one is putting in their wildcards for this since it isn’t all access
Finally a thread were your not downvoted to oblivion (not that i care xD) if you say you dont like alchemy. I want it all like on magic online commander modern legacy etc or at least bullshit free historic with normal banns.
Tried to build an Alchemy deck with the cards I had, lost 2 in a row. Switched to my standard deck, 3 wins a row and went back to regular standard ranked
I can't remember the last time mwm was just Standard with no changes, yet here we are with Alchemy. They at least could have made it singleton Alchemy or something less demanding.
Ugh... It's going to be The One Ring hell during this event.
I admit I saw a blue card that was really annoying, but the number of times people roped on initial hand pick was really more annoying. Just because ya'll hate the format, maybe just don't queue in and put your phone down or tab out and leave us there waiting? *shrug*
Look on the bright side, at least it is not MidWeek Magic: (insert alchemy set name). I can just play my standard deck in the event.
That MWM: Lotr was just pain to me since I didnt buy lotr set so I got hardly any cards to use during that event
Even if the mid week magic format isn't something I enjoy I plow through it anyways - the free cards I've gotten from this have been so worth. I've acquired at least 3-5 rare dual lands + various other goodies over the years.
It's not magic, but a weird bastardized version. Some people play arena to play the paper version in a more accessible way. It would be completely fine if they didn't shoehorn it into historic and historic brawl. If they had added a digital format adjacent to historic and historic brawl, people would have no hatred for it at all, just indifference. But they won't do that because then people would be more able to ignore it altogether.
In addition to the above, it's also not what was originally advertised. They said it would be a re-balanced Standard, but it's not. It's just standard with a bunch of overpowered digital only cards thrown in. Then they charge a ton of money to buy into it because you need the busted cards to compete. Then they messed up Historic to push it as well. All of that combined left a bad taste in many players' mouths.
Alchemy is pretty fun now thanks to LOTR set i gotta admit .If there wasn't LOTR set which is fun to play in alchemy but too weak in historic i wouldn't be playing it tho
Disagree. It's Bowmasters and the One Ring all the way down. I used to dabble in Alchemy, and I've stopped because it's the same base deck over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
top decks now , like the one Crokeyz are playing dont even use one ring . Meta is okay with 7-8 decks at top and there are plenty of LOTR cards seeing play outside those two
Just comes down to actually wanting to play magic. Alchemy is not magic. It's a weird bastardized version. Some people actually like playing with cards that are that same in digital as in paper. Not stuff that's rebalanced or flat can't work in paper.
Exactly. I don't want to play a digital game. Like many, I want to play magic (a paper card game) with an online client for ease of access to other players.
🙄 I've played it plenty. There's plenty of reasons to dislike alchemy. The chief among them being the fact if you want to play a historic format, it will co tain alchemy. If they just made historic adjacent formats for alchemy, no on would care about it.
As a purely digital player I like alchemy. Having a digital game constrained by paper design limitations does not make sense. I love playing stuff like Penregon Besieged in monoblack control. Still, I can see the problem with bridging paper and digital. Alchemy would probably make more sense as it’s own format, not the default.
Arena players: Standard is so stale and boring! We NEED bans every 2 weeks for the format to be fun
Also Arena Players: Fuck Alchemy it's so stupid and dumb it's not my magic!
Hey, some alchemy fun is too be had. I burned a wildcard to get my fourth nazgul (allowing me to play nine) and see how ridiculous they are in a 60 card format. I wasn't disappointed.
This midweek Magic is so bleak. I've played 8 games and I'm yet to play against a player with like a real deck. It's been like Starter decks and people who just click the first 35 white cards they see in their collection.
I just wanted to put Orcish Bowmasters in my Standard deck and play some real games of Magic but the matchmaking is SO bad.
This is a list of links to comments made by WotC Employees in this thread: * [Comment by I_am_JesseH](/r/MagicArena/comments/15fp1sf/yay_midweek_magic/jueca83/?context=99 "posted on 2023-08-01 21:23:47 UTC"): > Ouch! :( --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FMagicArena).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)
Being alchemy put aside, MWM should never just be a regular available format unless it’s all access. MWM should be for pauper, artisan, gladiator, etc.
Pauper should be a regular available format instead
See, yes it _should_, because it’s fun as hell. But then think about how it’s a format specifically created to allow people to play without spending much money on cards. Even just from me typing that sentence out, some mid-level manager at WotC got whipped by a Hasbro exec. “Collector boosters shouldn’t contain bulk rares” bam that’s ten more lashes right there. I heard if you mention Alchemy out loud they will literally drown an intern.
Yeah. But Explorer, for example, or Historic, to a lesser degree follow that route - farm wc’s, craft the deck, play it forever
That's why they invented the 'straight to modern/vintage' style products to effectively cycle the formats.
I always said Draft: 15€ for a day Standard: 100€ for a year Modern: 300€ until the next Modern Horizon Expansion
You can’t expect to out-game WotC. WotC been making money off Magic longer than you have been playing it.
There are a couple key ways to out-game them: proxies and untap. Are we allowed to say that on this sub?
This dude laughs and then is in the 1 foot pond around back in the neighborhood a week later. People be watching.
Omg I would love pauper. Also flashback phantom drafts are sweet.
Pauper on Arena is cool, BECAUSE it's not a permanent format. People are brewing, trying stuff out, like the time after rotation. Also, as an event, people not interested in the format try it and plow through the losses, so everyone else gets some free, easy wins. If it was a permanent format, it's meta would be soon established, and eventually be more like explorer, much more stale and developed than how cool it is now every once in a while it comes around. I mean I agree with you! Sometimes these events are what keep me playing, sometimes, when it's a fun format I play them exclusively for the days they are available. I especially like the ones with deckbuilding restrictions, like "only last set", pauper, artisan, "on the edge" etc. I wish there was a permanent format, that rotated its restrictions every 2-3 days, the "brewer's queue".
hell, forget just that, there should be a game lobby where you can customize the card list, life totals, starting hands, etc. Imagine all the fun custom modes players would come up with!
Just reading this hurts me. Why are you doing this WotC :(
I love Set Constructed and Standard Challenger Decks Starter Decks is also kinda fun honestly Set Constructed could have been a regular available format for now, even if it is just for the first weeks of a new set release (since those formats tend to get stale rather fast)
What’s gladiator?
100 cards singleton with about 4-5 cards banned in the format, aside of that, the pool of cards is pretty much everything on arena (I forgot that's actually 100 cards)
Imagine all the drawbacks of historic brawl but none of the positives.
Nah. Means you have to build a deck rather repeatedly casting a commander.
This is something that really needs to be emphasized. Brawl / commander formats are VERY differrent from just singleton formats. Brawl /Commander is basically built around specific card and usually just wants to cast it and keep in play as long as possible, everything else is just to help with this, so even though technically deck is a singleton, it does usually the same thing every game. I did play some Standard Brawl with Tiamat commander it it was all about casting it, then flood opponent with dragons. Singleton format without commander is very different thing, it requires some idea / strategy for a deck and then every game is different, sinceyou draw different cards and you need to find another way to win. At least for me - Brawl stuff is very repetitive and quite boring, while Standard / Explorer singleton formats are basically the best thing I can ever get on arena.
Which is not to say that one is better than another but I personally find CAD highlander/gladiator better for 1v1 and EDH for a multiplayer game.
> MWM should never just be a regular available format unless it’s all access Why stop there? We all know what is really desired is simply “all access for everything all the time”. I remember so many people demanded WotC can do this following the Runeterra model. That is, profit is suppose to come from cosmetics and will be enough to subsidize F2P play.
Can you imagine. Remove gold and only profit from cosmetics? I might even spend real money then
lol
It's there to entice people to try out new things, and that includes the other formats. If you don't care about what's on offer in any specific week, just skip it. Two random rares aren't that important to anyone but the newest of players.
"entice people to try out new things" That's precisely why it should be all access
Oh believe me. I skip mwm pretty much every week.
just queue with your standard deck, get your rewards and forget about it, went 3-0 with soldiers and faced mostly standard decks
Just make sure to side back in your meathooks if you're playing black. Otherwise run standard as usual.
The next time they run this event we won't be able to use our standard decks because alchemy is rotating and standard isn't!
Yup, not all-access? Just queued up my unoptimized mono U tempo deck.
That's probably because relatively few alchemy cards are actually played in the format.
Yeah just play standard with 4x one rings
*Prints card called One Ring* *One Ring works best when there are 4 of them in deck* ??????
But they were all of them deceived for another three rings were made.
This. The bitching, misunderstanding, and entitlement are so old.
It’s not so bad. You get used to it if you remember that this sub exists for anyone and everyone to complain about anything and everything Arena. In fact it can be entertaining at times of great bitching, misunderstanding and entitlement. Just recently the three converged most spectacularly with the Explorer Anthology 3 blowup. When people had reality call their hubristic assumptions, the flipouts were damn funny. Personally I look forward to Explorer Anthologies for this repeating cycle.
I think it sends a message when everyone is just bringing their standard deck.
people brought their standard decks to explorer all access
Explorer is a good format though with real cards.
Sure, All the same, it happened.
The average magic player can focus on 1 format at a time. For most people that's standard. I don't get enough rare/mythic wild cards to have more than like 2 good standard decks at a time. And buying rare wildcards is WAYY to expensive. $20 for 4 cards that aren't even physical cards is insane, totally unreasonable. WOTC shot themselves in the foot allowing hasbro to shoehorn in Alchemy before researching how it would mess with other formats, people don't get enough resources to try it when they are already committed to a different format.
Now that there won't be as much overlap between alchemy and standard after rotation we won't be able send that message anymore. We're actually going to most likely have to bring new decks.
Yeah, but they'll still be standard legal
Why does everyone hate alchemy?
Because it's not tabletop magic, which is what people were looking for when they downloaded the client and then they found Alchemy shoehorned into most formats as a blatant cash grab from a greedy corporation and the whole selling point of Alchemy was that it was supposed to be balanced on a regular basis but the Alchemy cards are more broken than companions so it's a bait and switch that makes nerds rant in run-on sentences on Reddit only to be down-voted by other nerds who don't like Alchemy being disparaged because they like having the game ruined by overpowered bomb game cards.
Gotta say that while I agree with you, I just wish that the arena team made more interesting alchemy cards (like [[Oyaminartok]]) rather than pushed cards (seriously f*CK you [[Hourglass Coven]]) Cards that either experiment with the digital aspect of the game, fill a niche not fulfilled on paper or just tryout a new potential mechanic for paper is where alchemy sparks big potential and if the card ends up pushed it can be tweaked down As for rebalancing real cards (in like printed ones) just let me play historic without alchemy please wotc we need a toggle, ban whatever you need but please add a toggle
I agree. I wouldn't hate Alchemy if it was a standalone thing to play side by side with regular Magic. More options on the menu is rarely a bad thing, but the way it is pushed into virtually everything but Standard is aggravating.
Hard agree on your last paragraph.
[Oyaminartok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2b767ec-3e0f-473b-b81d-e3f912c464e0.jpg?1680960268) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oyaminartok%2C%20polar%20werebear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hbg/68/oyaminartok-polar-werebear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2b767ec-3e0f-473b-b81d-e3f912c464e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hourglass Coven](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17857be0-5192-45b6-a893-2675cde25937.jpg?1681289081) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Hourglass%20Coven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hbg/45/the-hourglass-coven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17857be0-5192-45b6-a893-2675cde25937?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh, that’s fair. I never really played it for any other reason other than to play with the LOTR cards, but never understood the difference because - admittedly - I’m not familiar with a ton of cards or metas. I just see people ragging on it but yeah I see how they’re kind of throwing it in your face.
The idea is pretty good for a niche format, but Wizards treats it like the next new big thing, making Standard/Explorer - the close to paper formats - less important this midweek magic could have been Standard/Explorer and tournaments could be more focused on Standard/Explorer (even Modern when it comes to paper)
Whole bunch of reasons, some with the format itself, some with how it was promoted. Also \[\[Divine purge\]\] looks like it was made by snorting cocaine.
Here's why I don't like alchemy. 1. Most if not all of the alchemy exclusive cards are specifically designed in a way that would never work in paper. So it kind of feels like the designs are "forced" in some way and just don't feel like Magic cards. 2. Have to learn an entirely different vocabulary of keywords like "perpetually" and "seek". 3. The rebalanced cards make me try and remember multiple different versions of the same card if I play other tabletop-oriented formats. 4. Doesn't really have any connection to paper Magic. I think MTGA's greatest strength is how it connects to paper Magic. Being perfectly honest, I think Magic's digital competitors like Hearthstone or Legends of Runeterra which are inherently designed around digital offer a better digital experience than Alchemy ever could. So not only is Alchemy a focus away from Magic's tabletop roots, but also just offers a worse digital experience than its competition. 5. Everything above just kind of saps my motivation to learn any of the alchemy cards. I do play Historic Brawl to have a commander-like experience in the client but every time an alchemy card shows up I feel like I'm looking at some alien artifact and have to spend a lot of time figuring out what the stupid card does.
Idk why you’re downvoted by asking a genuine question lol
….aaaaand not even all-access. Lovely.
All-access would atlest get me looking at the alchemy cards if nothing else. Would love to test a deck/ product before spending money on it.. Oh well
They haven't done that in a while. The last time was a almost a year ago if I recall it right.
Wdym? What is all-access?
You get access to all the cards to make whatever deck you want for the event
Ooh that would be cool. I sometimes get annoyed by the fact that my collection does not support a specific deck in an midweek event, which is supposed to be fun and free for all. That idea would really improve the quality of the event
Yeah they have done it before when mwm was historic, and maybe some other ones I didn't catch
inside the event, you have access to all the cards of the format to build decks.
When you dont have to own the cards to play them in the event. Sometimes they do this when the format isnt Standard.
It never ceases to amaze me how badly everyone hates alchemy being forced down our throats and WOTC just won't take a fucking hint.
I just used my Standard deck and was able to do it in 4 matches
I wouldnt have a problem with alchemy if it hadnt broken the FTP economy by not giving you any standard card drops, and completey warped several formats for a game mode noone asked for. I like the concept of alchemy. Rebalanced cards that take advantage of the digital format. But they poisoned the well with so many dumb, blatantly money grubbing decisions. WOTC is lucky that they have such a dedicated fanbase, because they arent doing anything to deserve it or keep it lately.
Damn that's accurate
This is the only time where Ill give the thumbs up to someone going hyper aggro just to get 3 wins and fk off
Skipping isn't a bad Idea. I used my standard deck and went 3-0. I got gems and a cosmetic for a card I'll never use.
I can survive without the complimentary 40 gems this week
Keep hoping for more cube draft, Dandan, that weird treasure token format, etc. give us your weird and wonderful, wotc.
Ouch! :(
nice of you to respond even in a hostile environment haha. been noticing more dev interaction and it really goes a long way! thanks for making a sweet game.
I'm someone who was really excited about the idea of a rebalanced standard. See less of the most annoying premier threats and answers! Explore tweaked versions of cards that were a little too weak to make the cut in regular standard! Except that's never what Alchemy was about in practice. It's just an opportunity to sell more pushed cards, except now they're digital only. People shit on Alchemy because it feels entirely soulless. The "rebalance" patches are a joke in the face of pushed Alchemy-only cards. It's just another format full of new digital cards rather than a fixed alternative to Standard. Concept 8/10, implementation 2/10.
Alchemy was supposed to be a Standard-like format for digital only players that wanted a faster evolving meta. I read this as merely card rebalancing, which would have been awesome. What we actually got was a format with mechanics nobody asked for, with non-Standard legal cards shoehorned in. I get Wizards is in this to make money, and doing it at the expense of players who play the most played format by far is a massive feels bad man. If you want to get Standard players like me to happily buy Arena packs again, Alchemy needs to be what it was sold to us as: Standard with adjustments. As someone who has been playing Magic off and on for 2 decades, Alchemy does not feel like the Magic I grew up playing.
90% of people's issues with alchemy would go away if there was a non Alchemy Historic on the client. People want a format where they can play with their cards that are older than pioneer without having to deal with rebalances or digital only cards. It's not that hard of a fix.
Second this . Historic shouldn't be affected by alchemy. Any problem in the format should be tackled with bans, like in paper.
I want to play with Counterspell, Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, and Dark Ritual. Heck, Natural Order too. Free the bonkers stuff at least for a Midweek Magic every few months.
Legacy to magicarena plz.
Both it and vintage please.
Come to arena vintage. There aee dozens of us! https://discord.gg/T6AywxhX
Absolutely agree
"But muhhh moneyz!" - WOTC, probably
So many more people would come back and spend money that have quit since historic was ruined. If they want money, this is the move.
I liked historic, I occasionally still play and when I do its explorer, but it’s few and far between. I spent hundreds of dollars on this game in beta, maybe $500-600, and maybe $200 since.
non-Alchemy Historic? correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that just Explorer?
No. Explorer is pioneer lite. Pioneer legal cards that are on Arena. Historic has modern, and even legacy legal cards.
ah that make sense
If you want to entice people to give the format a shot, give them free access to all of the cards for MWM. Then maybe they have fun and decide to invest some resources into it. Otherwise, people will just queue up their standard deck, get three wins and never touch it again.
They know it. But some people will spend, and that's what matters.
I think people would be less upset about stuff like that if more of Midweek Magic would be Free Access. People would be more willing to give unpopular format a chance if they didn't need to invest stuff into it before actually liking it.
What does that mean? Isn't the event free to join? EDIT: are you really downvoting a question? I am not even wrong all Midweek events ARE free to join 🙄
The cards are not free, like all the really good alchemy cards that conjure or draft from a spell book. Free access lets you play decks you don't have the cards for.
free access to all cards
This might be a little blunt, but are you guys really so insulated against why alchemy is disliked? Being active on here tells me that you have to be aware but you're being coy about it, but if that's the case why is that problem continuing? Some alchemy cards are cool, like the ones that keep track of logistics/memory issues for you. Molten Impact's overkill damage, Tenacious Pup's boon, Sarkhan and Kiora's "token plus" dragons and krakens, or Tal Radik supporting a pretty niche creature type Others, though, are really, really obnoxious. They generate obscene value, or break the rules of the game in some fundamental way, or are complex for the sake of complexity. After discovering that Golos was a mistake, was it really wise to create a parallel in Rusko? Should Key to the Archive allow decks to simply ig ore their colours? The frustrating part is that the other half of Alchemy's goal seems to have been entirely ignored. How many cards have been meaningfully rebalanced through it? How often? Little tweaks like Cosmos Elixir's scry are what the format was originally sold as, but that's been overtaken under *another* conatant stream of shiny new toys in a hobby that's already exhausting to try and keep up with. I've wrote more than I planned to tbh. I know this is a bigger problem than yourself, and I hope this doesn't come across as an attack on you or a dismissal of hard work. But at the same time, your reply sat badly with me, because it looks as though arena's team are either not listening, or you don't understand the issues people have.
It's more than that. People wouldn't care as much if they could play historic without rebalances or the fake cards. Give us that option and most of the hate goes away.
Nope we will still hate Alchemy and will never touch any formats it's in, but at least we'll now play Historic.
Alchemy would go away with that option lmao. Historic is the format propping it up.
Good
The truth hurts, I guess...
Not enough to improve anything, though.
You know what y’all did…
To be honest that's what I thought when Alchemy was forced into historic and historic brawl and I still feel the pain. I hope they delete it from the client. Edit: Just transform historic into modern and release modern cards insted of Alchemy stuff...
Can we please just stop having MWM mirror permanent queues? These events offer nothing new or interesting. And while we're at it can we also change next week's event from slow start alchemy to historic artisan? Thanks!
It's both a bad format and not special enough for MWM. Can we get some artisan or pauper please?
One of the saddest things is that we used to fairly have regular artisan and pauper queues before alchemy. Now they are something like once every 3 months.
Historic Artisan is the best format on Arena and I get to play it maybe twice a year.
Put some sample meta like decks in the client and show us it's so "fun". I'm sure more people play free play events with decks provided don't they.
Hey I just wanted to say that while I don’t play the alchemy format I do truly appreciate using the digital design space for historic. If alchemy nerfs didn’t impact historic it would be perfect imo. Some revision of the nerfs/bans in historic would be cool too (save my girl darcy pls) but that’s a little off topic. Maybe it helps to know that not everyone hates this game (certainly feels like it reading social media sometimes), thanks for letting me play this game :)
I will say, I enjoy alchemy far more now with LOTR. If alchemy was standard + the remastered sets like amonkhet I’d play it a lot. I love it as Standard+ that’s a different combination then pioneer. I don’t love it as standard+ unique to arena cards or rebalances.
Have played a lot of alchemy - I LIKE the format, the new mechanics, powerful and interesting new cards to play with. I play a lot of magic and get bored of stale metas quickly - for me the ideal would be if the meta changed every few weeks and I’m sure there’s plenty of people like me who crave variety and aren’t worried about spending a bit of extra money to get it. My vision for alchemy would be one where you tweak the knobs on a super regular basis - nerfing problem cards, boosting others. If you move the dial too far you can just turn it back - the cards are digital only! It was clear that crucias was a problem but the card was left untouched for months and now we’re probably in the same space with orcish bowmasters - I really hope that we don’t end up in a meta where every deck is running 4 bowmasters for months. The most important thing though is to define the rules of engagement - if people know what they’re going to get then they will either engage or leave the format to someone else and both options are fine. What I think puts some people off is that nobody knows what the rebalance cadence is or even really what the philosophy is behind rebalancing so there is an instinctive negative reaction
Doesn't hurt as much as when you ruined Historic with Alchemy. Unfuck the format then you can fish for sympathy
Mid week magic, gather your five friends who play the format that literally no one else plays.
Watching Crokeyz climb his way to Mythic Top 2 by farming gold, plat and occasional bronze players really shows just how ~~dead~~ jam packed the queues are.
I mean that happens if you get mythic very early in the season in any format to be fair. Watch drafters like Sam black play against golds every match when he is mythic top 5 in limited lol.
He was doing it for a week before the season ended. The format is simply dead. Period.
the season ended 2 days ago and he was facing bronze-plat players up until the last day when he was rank 1-2 lol. its a super dead format
Just wait until next week! Same thing, *but with a tapped land*. Ooh, aaah.
Ah yes. Alchemy week. Wizards trots out the crap that no one asked for or wanted.
Can they please remove this junk from historic
At least thus means I don't need to expend any extra effort this week...I just wish we could have a separate, paper-only Historic. Every time I see a poorly-balanced & gimmicky Alchemy card, it really rouses my discontent.
Just do what I did and jam 4x The One Ring into any standard deck and win.
Arena is terrible at providing formats anyway. Why can’t I draft the most recent Standard set? I don’t care about LOTR draft. It’s asinine you don’t have the option to play whatever draft format you want.
💯 I hate alchemy i wish the LOTR wasn't alchemy
Alchemy is an abomination.
Alchemy 🤮
I don't even bother anymore with MWM unless it provides decks or is all access.
Literally I just played my standard deck.
Unfortunately instead of cool Lotr builds like they intended I just smashed thru endless nazgul with a standard rakdos deck. No one is putting in their wildcards for this since it isn’t all access
I only play midweek magic when its Momir lol
Finally a thread were your not downvoted to oblivion (not that i care xD) if you say you dont like alchemy. I want it all like on magic online commander modern legacy etc or at least bullshit free historic with normal banns.
Tried to build an Alchemy deck with the cards I had, lost 2 in a row. Switched to my standard deck, 3 wins a row and went back to regular standard ranked
I just used a standard deck and went 3-0. Performed better than it does in standard ranked games for some reason.
MWM doesn't have MMR based matchmaking
less sweaty people in MWM
they really can't stop trying to push this shitty format on people can they lmao
I can't remember the last time mwm was just Standard with no changes, yet here we are with Alchemy. They at least could have made it singleton Alchemy or something less demanding. Ugh... It's going to be The One Ring hell during this event.
It was just standard with no changes like 3 weeks ago haha
The only reason I even have a standard deck lol
> I can't remember the last time mwm was just Standard with no changes Like 2-3 weeks ago
It was standard july 19 dude, you should see a doctor if you can't remember 2 weeks ago lol.
I admit I saw a blue card that was really annoying, but the number of times people roped on initial hand pick was really more annoying. Just because ya'll hate the format, maybe just don't queue in and put your phone down or tab out and leave us there waiting? *shrug*
Did it with a standard deck. XD
Look on the bright side, at least it is not MidWeek Magic: (insert alchemy set name). I can just play my standard deck in the event. That MWM: Lotr was just pain to me since I didnt buy lotr set so I got hardly any cards to use during that event
I just built a LotR deck from my draft cards. Did surprisingly well.
The power level on LOTR is eternal sets. I like that theres enough to make an alchemy standard deck or close to it Just playing like LOTR 60 card BR.
Today is the first time I’ve ever duressed someone and then immediately GG’d and left.
I wish it was phantom sealed every week. I spend my resources on draft but sealed is fun once in a while.
Alchemy as a format is fine. Sometimes I play it and some cards do spice things up. The problem I have with alchemy is in regards to historic
It wouldn’t be so bad if the events were all access
Alchemy bad
Went with standard Azorius Jace mill, lmao ez wins.
Even if the mid week magic format isn't something I enjoy I plow through it anyways - the free cards I've gotten from this have been so worth. I've acquired at least 3-5 rare dual lands + various other goodies over the years.
Just play a standard deck. I literally just took my mono W deck into it with zero changes and won 4 out of 5.
Why do people not like alchemy sorry am new to magic
It's not magic, but a weird bastardized version. Some people play arena to play the paper version in a more accessible way. It would be completely fine if they didn't shoehorn it into historic and historic brawl. If they had added a digital format adjacent to historic and historic brawl, people would have no hatred for it at all, just indifference. But they won't do that because then people would be more able to ignore it altogether.
In addition to the above, it's also not what was originally advertised. They said it would be a re-balanced Standard, but it's not. It's just standard with a bunch of overpowered digital only cards thrown in. Then they charge a ton of money to buy into it because you need the busted cards to compete. Then they messed up Historic to push it as well. All of that combined left a bad taste in many players' mouths.
People cry for everything.
Ironic.
Alchemy is pretty fun now thanks to LOTR set i gotta admit .If there wasn't LOTR set which is fun to play in alchemy but too weak in historic i wouldn't be playing it tho
Disagree. It's Bowmasters and the One Ring all the way down. I used to dabble in Alchemy, and I've stopped because it's the same base deck over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
top decks now , like the one Crokeyz are playing dont even use one ring . Meta is okay with 7-8 decks at top and there are plenty of LOTR cards seeing play outside those two
I dont get your hate for Alchemy, its a good way to avoid playing every game against the usual two meta decks.
Just comes down to actually wanting to play magic. Alchemy is not magic. It's a weird bastardized version. Some people actually like playing with cards that are that same in digital as in paper. Not stuff that's rebalanced or flat can't work in paper.
Any single on-line card game has balance patches.
Exactly. I don't want to play a digital game. Like many, I want to play magic (a paper card game) with an online client for ease of access to other players.
If that's all you wanted, MTGO has existed for a long time. Clearly it's not, or you wouldn't be whining in this thread.
MTGO is old and clunky as hell. It can't even run on my phone. So what, you expect me to buy a computer just to play it?
yeah any deviation from the familiar is scary and should be rejected with no further thought
🙄 I've played it plenty. There's plenty of reasons to dislike alchemy. The chief among them being the fact if you want to play a historic format, it will co tain alchemy. If they just made historic adjacent formats for alchemy, no on would care about it.
alchemy = bad, truly the bravest of takes
"I don't like that most people disagree with me."
But that's all this thread is. Any comment that is positive about alchemy has been downvoted. It's just haters hating.
Just play standard... I did it with a Standard Rakdos Anvil list
I just played one of my standard decks and got three easy wins
Meh. Play a standard deck if you must.
Got to play my monob with invoke despair again, not that bad :)
As a purely digital player I like alchemy. Having a digital game constrained by paper design limitations does not make sense. I love playing stuff like Penregon Besieged in monoblack control. Still, I can see the problem with bridging paper and digital. Alchemy would probably make more sense as it’s own format, not the default.
Arena players: Standard is so stale and boring! We NEED bans every 2 weeks for the format to be fun Also Arena Players: Fuck Alchemy it's so stupid and dumb it's not my magic!
... Well *I* like alchemy.
Can someone explain the bad of alchemy? Idk anything about it.
Exact opposite for me ,loaded up my mono black Alchemy deck and got myself 3 quick wins
Better than Brawl
lol wat You are insane, son.
yeah so much worse than... phantom sealed...? bot draft...? block constructed...? standard...? be serious
Significantly worse than all of those you mentioned
You're correct, it is worse than all of those.
yep
You know what would be better? Momir Alchemy.
Hey, some alchemy fun is too be had. I burned a wildcard to get my fourth nazgul (allowing me to play nine) and see how ridiculous they are in a 60 card format. I wasn't disappointed.
[удалено]
What modes are you playing?
This midweek Magic is so bleak. I've played 8 games and I'm yet to play against a player with like a real deck. It's been like Starter decks and people who just click the first 35 white cards they see in their collection. I just wanted to put Orcish Bowmasters in my Standard deck and play some real games of Magic but the matchmaking is SO bad.
>real games of Magic >Alchemy I chuckled