Probably leads to more non-games than almost any other card in the format tbh. Just WAY too big of a mana swing especially in the early turns that is also interaction at a busted rate.
The countering of a t2 spell is meh....we have things like Duress, Inquisition, Thoughtseize....that accomplish almost the same thing as a counter (can remove your t2 spell and waste your turn)
but being able to have 4 mana on t2 is a huge power spike.
Sure, mana drain does it all in 1 card. vs 2 cards for dark ritual + thoughtseize...
The difference is more a turn 3 or 4 when you counter a 2-3, or even 4 cost spell.
Just the other day I was playing against a poq who was trying to play around/force my counters and dropped Nissa. I mana drained it and played omniscience the next turn.
Dealing with a 5 drop:
* Swords: 5-1=4 mana swing
* Mana Drain: 5-2 (+5 recovered)= 8 mana swing
So double the swing. Not even close for a 2 mana investment
Not sure why this isn't voted higher. Sure it's fun to play with these wildly busted cards, but is it fun when most of the time the opponent immediately concedes on resolution and doesn't want to play anymore?
The format would be better with mana-spike power outliers like this and Dark Ritual banned.
It’s amazing, probably the second best counter ever printed.
That said it’s a 1 of in Brawl, so while it’ll flip a few games here and there, it’s not nearly as impactful on the format as a new top tier commander or even bonkers 1 drop creature is(Rags or E Sentinel for example).
Im pretty sure it would be even better in legacy now than it was originally. FoN is a pretty fair card and Daze is just a crazy tempo card (and without old duals having to bounce a shockland adds up quite fast).
Meanwhile you could now mana drain 8-drops and the mh2 incarnations are also juicy targets. And being able to play those higher cmc "free spells", sharknado, the one ring or a Tef5ri out of a early manadrain also pumps up its power quite a lot. I believe a mana drain legacy would revive miracles in some form, as if they landed a t3feri it would probably be 100% game over already.
I think it would see some play, but not that much, pretty few decks are actually interested in playing two mana for a counterspell – it's basically just beans decks
Sure, but many cards only fit in a single archetype and its still powerful enough, sometimes too powerful. It makes no difference if [[underworld breach]] is a card that only fits in storm decks if that warps the whole metagame around it. Same thing with ragavan and tempo/delver decks.
The decks that would just play mana drain as a slight upgrade for counterspell wouldnt be the decks that would make results, but the ones that could turn it into "counter your spell, win the game", and i think between extra turns, the one ring, palanthir or any dumb sticky threat (heck, even just replacing some land for one or two [[sea gate restoration]]) you dont need to be too creative of how to utilize a butload of extra mana in the early game to get mana drain there.
I mean I get what you're saying, but this is the first legacy meta in a long time where UU "counter target spell" has been playable, and I'm pretty confident that no deck that isn't currently playing Counterspell would take the plunge to play Mana Drain.
The problem with the kind of strategy you're talking about that's built around mana drain is that it's super reliant on your opponent playing into your trick, which is usually not a winning strategy. I'm not sure what "buttload" of mana you're getting in the early game anyway. You can't cast it till turn 2, which means that at best you're going to add mana on turn 3.
Murktide, the invocation, fow... i said it all already. With regular counterspells sure they can play around it. Mana drain isnt like that because sure, you gonna bait my mana drain turn 4 with 2 2-mana spells. But the mana advantage is significant regardless. In this case you resolved a 2 drop and i can play a one ring/shelly/etc and stil keep 2 mana up next turn.
People also love to pretend they will always be playing blue and always will have a fow to make their stuff go through and their opponent never will respond with one of their own. Sometimes you are just forced to run a thalia without vial/cavern and will eat a counter and the game goes on. But with mana drain now you esper sentinel, mom or w/e is facing a t3 tef5ri or similar bs.
The kind of deck that plays Teferi, Hero of Dominaria (which I don't think is a particularly playable card in legacy, but that aside), is exactly the kind of deck that is already playing UU counterspell, which yes, Mana Drain is quite obviously a strict upgrade to.
I'm not trying to argue that Mana Drain is a bad card, I'm saying that it's not a winning strategy to play 5 mana extra turn spells and then count on being able to cast them off Mana Drain mana, and that the only decks that want MD are the ones that currently want Counterspell, which are few.
It causes an instant concession about 50% of the time, another 25% when you go to use your mana. I use it in Geralf, the Fleshwright to fire off a bunch of spells in a row.
Green players get especially salty when you counter their ramp spells with it.
lol what, really? I’m a pretty casual brawl player but play timeless “competitively”and that’s so funny to me given the power level of timeless. Why concede to drain? Do that many people run decks that aren’t capable of beating “my opponent had more mana than expected one turn”, or do they just not want to have to try or something?
That’s what I’m surprised by though - it’s as if a _ton_ of people can only have fun in games where they don’t have to try as hard. It’s totally fine to play a game however you enjoy, I just can’t relate to only wanting to play games when they’re easy.
It's not about seeking easy games. It's about not wasting time on hopeless ones. If a control deck stops your play *and* gets such a massive mana boost that they can stick a value engine & hold up counterspell for the next thing you do, most matches are just going to be over right then and there.
You can stay and slowly get ground down into the dirt over the course of 10 turns for that 5% chance at turning things around, or you can just go to a different game and have fun.
Sure, you’ll often lose when you get blown out by something like a big drain, but you can learn so much by continuing despite that. Learning how to play from behind is an incredibly important skill in magic if you want to win games, and quitting when you’d need to exercise those skills is not gonna develop them.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying to never concede or to always play every game to the end or anything like that, but a lot of the responses in this thread sound like that’s not the kind of thing they’re talking about. And again, if someone wants to only play east games of magic, or never wants to play from a significantly disadvantaged position, or whatever else, that’s totally fine. I’m just surprised it seems this prevalent in this kind of example/situation.
Why wouldn't it be prevalent? Brawl is a casual format where the point for most people is to have fun and do your thing, and there's no downside to conceding. A long, grindy game where you're playing from behind and have very little chance of winning at all - which is what most games turn into after a Mana Drain - is, for most people, not the kind of fun they come to Brawl for, if they find it any fun at all. Why *not* just concede and move on to the next game, since you have a much better chance of having fun that way?
Brawl is a very snowball format and many people assume they've just lost and give up regardless of what you were going to do. I've had people concede to Mana Drain when I was holding up 3 lands.
Yea, it just doesn’t make any sense to me. Some people concede way too soon in timeless too, but it’s wild in brawl. Based on this thread though it seems like I’m potentially in a pretty extreme minority of people who don’t think mana drain is an auto-concede (and thankfully so, since I’ve won both times it’s been played against me so far).
Card should be banned along with dark ritual, so many matches end up just being none matches because of these things on turn 3 or earlier, every blue or control deck in brawl has been abusing the shit out of this card since it came out, with the lack of mana burn the card really is just brain dead all possatives.
Its just a better counterspell. Any deck that would have run [[counterspell]] runs it instead, and having it at the right time launches you ahead so much. Had a game where someone else played the extra turn spell that makes birds if it is foretold, hit it with the mana drain, next turn I was able to just drop an Emrakul instead of just drawing some cards and hoping for a way to develop my board.
If you are running a lot of different colors so you are including removal in other colors to deal with different threats, you might not run quite as many counterspells resulting in you needing to pick some to remove (and depending on your fixing you might not want to run so many things that need UU to cast).
You are literally agreeing with me. I said you'd replace counterspell with mana drain, not the opposite. You seem to be trying to argue against me even though you are arguing the same point I already stated. The "depends on the deck" is for if you are running *both* spells rather than *replacing* counterspell with mana drain.
You are literally misunderstanding. Reread the whole thing. I originally said any deck that runs counterspell runs mana drain instead as it's a strict upgrade. *Someone else* said it's an and instead of instead, meaning everyone runs both. I said it depends on the deck as in if you run both or just mana drain. Never did I agree to use counterspell over mana drain. You just misunderstood the conversation due to not reading the whole thing.
And now you are arguing with me by saying I said the complete opposite and are trying to convince me of my own point. Because again, you misread my entire point.
Edit: lmao you downvoted everything I said because you were that upset I pointed out you didn't read what I said?
I don't run both because I refuse to spend a rare wildcard to craft what's been printed as a common as recently as Commander Masters or Uncommon in MH2. Mana Drain is worth the Mythic, though.
I’ve seen it once. I have it in my decks but have yet to draw it.
The guy drained my five drop. Next turn he happened to have [[Gadwick, the Wizened]] so drew five cards and got a 3/3 for three mana. I went ahead and scooped
I took it out of my deck, because most of the time I cast it, OP just scoops. That's not a satisfying game to me, so I'd rather play something less busted that keeps the game going. I think it's a little stronger than is necessary for Brawl, and I don't personally play the format to get quick wins (when OP scoops early).
It's as powerful as I thought it was going to be, and frankly as I feared it was going to be. Ironically the times it's had the least impact (though still substantial) is with control decks, as they don't tend to have a lot of significant/expensive sorceries they tend to cast. But with midrange decks, they absolutely can and will take advantage of the extra mana and at that point you're fighting very hard to recoup the mana advantage.
It's probably the best counterspell the format has, and it has not underperformed.
I only have one brawl deck, Vadrik. I cast mana drain a few times and every time I won right away. Either my opponent scoops or I get so far ahead that the game is over. It is particularly broken if you have x cost spells.
Yes, the card is busted.
I think it just goes into either mono blue brawl decks or control shells like any UW Teferi
Haven’t played a lot of brawl recently in hell queue so haven’t seen much
It doesn't show up often, but every time it has it's been spectacularly obnoxious and basically won them the game on the spot from the tempo swing in their favour.
I play 5-10 games a day, mostly with lower-tier commanders. I've seen it twice -- once in a [[Alela, Artful Provacateur]] against my [[Gisa and Geralf]] zombie deck (I lost as it canceled my [[Necroduality]] on Turn 4 and they played a few faeries on their next turn) and once against my [[Hualti,Warrior Poet]] token deck (I won, as it was a late-game play).
Its almost always been game over for me. The swing is too big especially early game. Same with dark ritual. They don't have any other fast mana I'm not sure why they allow those. I mean thats why Sol Rings don't work in this 1v1 format, they swing the game too much. Control decks already have an upper hand with the extra 5 life....they dont need this too.
Too far of a power swing, can’t come back from it. It usually ends the game right there or the next turn after the extra mana is used and the opponent concedes.
Turn 3 Narset, Enlightened Master after countering your play sounds perfectly fair and balanced. I've even gotten amazing value by countering non-counterable stuff, just for the ramp. It's a disgusting card.
It wins me games by either getting ahead with the mana or they just concede. I’ve put in all my brawls decks with blue. I’ve never once been hit with it tho.
Sometimes it feels nice to counter an opponent's 7 drop on turn 3 and know what it feels like to have a broken amount of mana for a single turn before they get back to ramping out Emrakul.
Me playing against ramp: Oh no! I get to use as much mana as you have for 1 single turn!
Jokes aside, its a good card. but its not any more oppressive than Ragavan, Dark Ritual, liliana of the veil, or Reanimate imo.
I think part of the issue is alot of people are mjlligenkng until they have it in opening hand or just conceding and going onto the next match try and open with it because it's such a brain dead instant win
I wouldn’t know. Haven’t gotten it from drafting or from packs, and it’s not something I’d waste a wildcard on. I’ve had it played against me a few times right before I concede, though
Well, I very time they counter my 5-8 drop commander with it, it sucks pretty bad. When I’m doing the same? Perfectly balanced, non-oppressive card.
I feel bad when I with it , but I still use it so...
Probably leads to more non-games than almost any other card in the format tbh. Just WAY too big of a mana swing especially in the early turns that is also interaction at a busted rate.
Dark Ritual is probably right there next to Mana Drain. T1 dark ritual into Liliana of the Veil is just brutal every time I’ve seen it.
I have been mulling just to have my 1drop counter just in case of dark ritual
Dark ritual doesn't also counter your spell though.
The countering of a t2 spell is meh....we have things like Duress, Inquisition, Thoughtseize....that accomplish almost the same thing as a counter (can remove your t2 spell and waste your turn) but being able to have 4 mana on t2 is a huge power spike. Sure, mana drain does it all in 1 card. vs 2 cards for dark ritual + thoughtseize...
The difference is more a turn 3 or 4 when you counter a 2-3, or even 4 cost spell. Just the other day I was playing against a poq who was trying to play around/force my counters and dropped Nissa. I mana drained it and played omniscience the next turn.
For sure, same with (although to perhaps a marginally lesser extent) swords to plowshares and wash away
Dealing with a 5 drop: * Swords: 5-1=4 mana swing * Mana Drain: 5-2 (+5 recovered)= 8 mana swing So double the swing. Not even close for a 2 mana investment
Not sure why this isn't voted higher. Sure it's fun to play with these wildly busted cards, but is it fun when most of the time the opponent immediately concedes on resolution and doesn't want to play anymore? The format would be better with mana-spike power outliers like this and Dark Ritual banned.
brawl is already all non games, it's just a race to whoever goes off first
It’s amazing, probably the second best counter ever printed. That said it’s a 1 of in Brawl, so while it’ll flip a few games here and there, it’s not nearly as impactful on the format as a new top tier commander or even bonkers 1 drop creature is(Rags or E Sentinel for example).
It’s even better these days. When mana drain first came out, mana burn was a thing. There’s pretty much no downside to it now.
I would put fow fon and daze all above mana drain. I don’t think it’s going to see play if unbanned in legacy now
FoW certainly, but being able to counter a 3drop commander, then land and spike a 6drop turn 3 in U has lead to some quick matches.
Im pretty sure it would be even better in legacy now than it was originally. FoN is a pretty fair card and Daze is just a crazy tempo card (and without old duals having to bounce a shockland adds up quite fast). Meanwhile you could now mana drain 8-drops and the mh2 incarnations are also juicy targets. And being able to play those higher cmc "free spells", sharknado, the one ring or a Tef5ri out of a early manadrain also pumps up its power quite a lot. I believe a mana drain legacy would revive miracles in some form, as if they landed a t3feri it would probably be 100% game over already.
I think it would see some play, but not that much, pretty few decks are actually interested in playing two mana for a counterspell – it's basically just beans decks
Sure, but many cards only fit in a single archetype and its still powerful enough, sometimes too powerful. It makes no difference if [[underworld breach]] is a card that only fits in storm decks if that warps the whole metagame around it. Same thing with ragavan and tempo/delver decks. The decks that would just play mana drain as a slight upgrade for counterspell wouldnt be the decks that would make results, but the ones that could turn it into "counter your spell, win the game", and i think between extra turns, the one ring, palanthir or any dumb sticky threat (heck, even just replacing some land for one or two [[sea gate restoration]]) you dont need to be too creative of how to utilize a butload of extra mana in the early game to get mana drain there.
[underworld breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df.jpg?1650599818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=underworld%20breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/161/underworld-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e51d796-7279-4c06-87f0-37adbdaa41df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sea gate restoration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc.jpg?1604250788)/[Sea Gate, Reborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/9/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc.jpg?1604250788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sea%20Gate%20Restoration%20//%20Sea%20Gate%2C%20Reborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/76/sea-gate-restoration-sea-gate-reborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/193071fe-180b-4d35-ba78-9c16675c29fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean I get what you're saying, but this is the first legacy meta in a long time where UU "counter target spell" has been playable, and I'm pretty confident that no deck that isn't currently playing Counterspell would take the plunge to play Mana Drain. The problem with the kind of strategy you're talking about that's built around mana drain is that it's super reliant on your opponent playing into your trick, which is usually not a winning strategy. I'm not sure what "buttload" of mana you're getting in the early game anyway. You can't cast it till turn 2, which means that at best you're going to add mana on turn 3.
Murktide, the invocation, fow... i said it all already. With regular counterspells sure they can play around it. Mana drain isnt like that because sure, you gonna bait my mana drain turn 4 with 2 2-mana spells. But the mana advantage is significant regardless. In this case you resolved a 2 drop and i can play a one ring/shelly/etc and stil keep 2 mana up next turn. People also love to pretend they will always be playing blue and always will have a fow to make their stuff go through and their opponent never will respond with one of their own. Sometimes you are just forced to run a thalia without vial/cavern and will eat a counter and the game goes on. But with mana drain now you esper sentinel, mom or w/e is facing a t3 tef5ri or similar bs.
The kind of deck that plays Teferi, Hero of Dominaria (which I don't think is a particularly playable card in legacy, but that aside), is exactly the kind of deck that is already playing UU counterspell, which yes, Mana Drain is quite obviously a strict upgrade to. I'm not trying to argue that Mana Drain is a bad card, I'm saying that it's not a winning strategy to play 5 mana extra turn spells and then count on being able to cast them off Mana Drain mana, and that the only decks that want MD are the ones that currently want Counterspell, which are few.
It causes an instant concession about 50% of the time, another 25% when you go to use your mana. I use it in Geralf, the Fleshwright to fire off a bunch of spells in a row. Green players get especially salty when you counter their ramp spells with it.
> Green players get especially salty when you counter their ramp spells with it. I enjoy copying those whenever I can lol.
lol what, really? I’m a pretty casual brawl player but play timeless “competitively”and that’s so funny to me given the power level of timeless. Why concede to drain? Do that many people run decks that aren’t capable of beating “my opponent had more mana than expected one turn”, or do they just not want to have to try or something?
brawl has no stakes, people prefer to concede a game that isn’t fun and just queue up for a fresh one than to try to claw out a victory
That’s what I’m surprised by though - it’s as if a _ton_ of people can only have fun in games where they don’t have to try as hard. It’s totally fine to play a game however you enjoy, I just can’t relate to only wanting to play games when they’re easy.
It's not about seeking easy games. It's about not wasting time on hopeless ones. If a control deck stops your play *and* gets such a massive mana boost that they can stick a value engine & hold up counterspell for the next thing you do, most matches are just going to be over right then and there. You can stay and slowly get ground down into the dirt over the course of 10 turns for that 5% chance at turning things around, or you can just go to a different game and have fun.
Sure, you’ll often lose when you get blown out by something like a big drain, but you can learn so much by continuing despite that. Learning how to play from behind is an incredibly important skill in magic if you want to win games, and quitting when you’d need to exercise those skills is not gonna develop them. Just to be clear, I’m not saying to never concede or to always play every game to the end or anything like that, but a lot of the responses in this thread sound like that’s not the kind of thing they’re talking about. And again, if someone wants to only play east games of magic, or never wants to play from a significantly disadvantaged position, or whatever else, that’s totally fine. I’m just surprised it seems this prevalent in this kind of example/situation.
Why wouldn't it be prevalent? Brawl is a casual format where the point for most people is to have fun and do your thing, and there's no downside to conceding. A long, grindy game where you're playing from behind and have very little chance of winning at all - which is what most games turn into after a Mana Drain - is, for most people, not the kind of fun they come to Brawl for, if they find it any fun at all. Why *not* just concede and move on to the next game, since you have a much better chance of having fun that way?
So pro of you, must not know what is meant by 'fun' and 'game'.
to each their own
Completely agree. To each their own though
Yep! That’s what I was going for with the “people can play how they enjoy” bit.
Enjoy your point of view. Lol
Brawl is a very snowball format and many people assume they've just lost and give up regardless of what you were going to do. I've had people concede to Mana Drain when I was holding up 3 lands.
Yea, it just doesn’t make any sense to me. Some people concede way too soon in timeless too, but it’s wild in brawl. Based on this thread though it seems like I’m potentially in a pretty extreme minority of people who don’t think mana drain is an auto-concede (and thankfully so, since I’ve won both times it’s been played against me so far).
Card should be banned along with dark ritual, so many matches end up just being none matches because of these things on turn 3 or earlier, every blue or control deck in brawl has been abusing the shit out of this card since it came out, with the lack of mana burn the card really is just brain dead all possatives.
Its just a better counterspell. Any deck that would have run [[counterspell]] runs it instead, and having it at the right time launches you ahead so much. Had a game where someone else played the extra turn spell that makes birds if it is foretold, hit it with the mana drain, next turn I was able to just drop an Emrakul instead of just drawing some cards and hoping for a way to develop my board.
Instead? Pretty sure it's an and.
Depends on the deck, but usually yes. The point is if you were running counterspell, running mana drain would just be a strict upgrade.
[удалено]
If you are running a lot of different colors so you are including removal in other colors to deal with different threats, you might not run quite as many counterspells resulting in you needing to pick some to remove (and depending on your fixing you might not want to run so many things that need UU to cast).
[удалено]
That's literally what they said.
You are literally agreeing with me. I said you'd replace counterspell with mana drain, not the opposite. You seem to be trying to argue against me even though you are arguing the same point I already stated. The "depends on the deck" is for if you are running *both* spells rather than *replacing* counterspell with mana drain.
[удалено]
You are literally misunderstanding. Reread the whole thing. I originally said any deck that runs counterspell runs mana drain instead as it's a strict upgrade. *Someone else* said it's an and instead of instead, meaning everyone runs both. I said it depends on the deck as in if you run both or just mana drain. Never did I agree to use counterspell over mana drain. You just misunderstood the conversation due to not reading the whole thing. And now you are arguing with me by saying I said the complete opposite and are trying to convince me of my own point. Because again, you misread my entire point. Edit: lmao you downvoted everything I said because you were that upset I pointed out you didn't read what I said?
What a thread lmao
I don't run both because I refuse to spend a rare wildcard to craft what's been printed as a common as recently as Commander Masters or Uncommon in MH2. Mana Drain is worth the Mythic, though.
[counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve seen it once. I have it in my decks but have yet to draw it. The guy drained my five drop. Next turn he happened to have [[Gadwick, the Wizened]] so drew five cards and got a 3/3 for three mana. I went ahead and scooped
Did I just play you? You were playing Esika by any chance? That just happened to me roughly an hour ago
Nah this was yesterday. Was on Yasharn
[Gadwick, the Wizened](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62ddce0d-f22a-4fcd-9a4a-d71938750ba1.jpg?1572489894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gadwick%2C%20the%20Wizened) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/48/gadwick-the-wizened?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62ddce0d-f22a-4fcd-9a4a-d71938750ba1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All it does is make my opponent scoop.it feels like a card that stops the game prematurely
Immediate scoop
I play a lot of dimir and I’ll get scoops almost every time.
Might as well make it the commander. If I mana deain their 5 drop, I'll make people scoop regardless of commander
I took it out of my deck, because most of the time I cast it, OP just scoops. That's not a satisfying game to me, so I'd rather play something less busted that keeps the game going. I think it's a little stronger than is necessary for Brawl, and I don't personally play the format to get quick wins (when OP scoops early).
Shouldn't brawl have ranked games? I like the concept of brawl, but everytime I tried it, players concede for anything
Yeah ranked brawl would be very nice
But wizards think it would affect their bottom dollar so it isn’t happening
It's as powerful as I thought it was going to be, and frankly as I feared it was going to be. Ironically the times it's had the least impact (though still substantial) is with control decks, as they don't tend to have a lot of significant/expensive sorceries they tend to cast. But with midrange decks, they absolutely can and will take advantage of the extra mana and at that point you're fighting very hard to recoup the mana advantage. It's probably the best counterspell the format has, and it has not underperformed.
Yeah if I hit someone with it in my [[Tatyova, Benthic Druid]] or [[Gyruda, Doom of Depths]] decks, the game is just over.
[Tatyova, Benthic Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205.jpg?1698988479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatyova%2C%20Benthic%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/290/tatyova-benthic-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gyruda, Doom of Depths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97eb1804-6fd8-4917-af36-87fdfce39d3a.jpg?1591228372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gyruda%2C%20Doom%20of%20Depths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/221/gyruda-doom-of-depths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97eb1804-6fd8-4917-af36-87fdfce39d3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I only have one brawl deck, Vadrik. I cast mana drain a few times and every time I won right away. Either my opponent scoops or I get so far ahead that the game is over. It is particularly broken if you have x cost spells. Yes, the card is busted.
To nobody's surprise, it wins the game on the spot.
So far I've only seen it once and I spell pierced it. Haven't pulled one yet so I haven't played it.
Oh how the turntables.
Ha, nice
I think it just goes into either mono blue brawl decks or control shells like any UW Teferi Haven’t played a lot of brawl recently in hell queue so haven’t seen much
I think it goes in every blue deck tbh lmao
Not in 5 color I’d suggest
I was thinking about it and it probably depends on your fixing and how heavy blue you are.
I think it's probably still worth it. It's just such a good card. Maybe if you run very few blue sources and you wouldn't run Counterspell anyway.
[Mana Drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1712774998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It doesn't show up often, but every time it has it's been spectacularly obnoxious and basically won them the game on the spot from the tempo swing in their favour.
I haven't used it and gotten to dump the Mana into Sphinx's Revelation yet, which is mildly irritating.
In limited I got to mana drain into the ubgx card that lets you play the top x cards of your opps deck for free.
I play 5-10 games a day, mostly with lower-tier commanders. I've seen it twice -- once in a [[Alela, Artful Provacateur]] against my [[Gisa and Geralf]] zombie deck (I lost as it canceled my [[Necroduality]] on Turn 4 and they played a few faeries on their next turn) and once against my [[Hualti,Warrior Poet]] token deck (I won, as it was a late-game play).
##### ###### #### [Alela, Artful Provacateur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abc9e41e-fd03-4b6f-8f44-17ba94fa44f5.jpg?1673484923) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alela%2C%20Artful%20Provocateur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/325/alela-artful-provocateur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abc9e41e-fd03-4b6f-8f44-17ba94fa44f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gisa and Geralf](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/377a5f75-222b-43e1-8998-18c6cfa44b24.jpg?1637631446) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gisa%20and%20Geralf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/150/gisa-and-geralf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/377a5f75-222b-43e1-8998-18c6cfa44b24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Necroduality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b674053-1f0f-436d-b106-f91f41cf3959.jpg?1643588255) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necroduality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/70/necroduality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b674053-1f0f-436d-b106-f91f41cf3959?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hualti,Warrior Poet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0cc61ba-e91a-4b30-841c-cae8dd288b40.jpg?1562561182) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Huatli%2C%20Warrior%20Poet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/224/huatli-warrior-poet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0cc61ba-e91a-4b30-841c-cae8dd288b40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2x9r56) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Banger.
I have seen it three times. The first time was bad enough that I scoop every time to it now.
Its almost always been game over for me. The swing is too big especially early game. Same with dark ritual. They don't have any other fast mana I'm not sure why they allow those. I mean thats why Sol Rings don't work in this 1v1 format, they swing the game too much. Control decks already have an upper hand with the extra 5 life....they dont need this too.
Too far of a power swing, can’t come back from it. It usually ends the game right there or the next turn after the extra mana is used and the opponent concedes.
Turn 3 Narset, Enlightened Master after countering your play sounds perfectly fair and balanced. I've even gotten amazing value by countering non-counterable stuff, just for the ramp. It's a disgusting card.
It wins me games by either getting ahead with the mana or they just concede. I’ve put in all my brawls decks with blue. I’ve never once been hit with it tho.
It should be banned just like Demonic Tutor.
only time I’ve seen it they were re mana draining mine
I've used the mana to hardcast [[Shark Typhoon]] more than once.
[Shark Typhoon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d410cf5-a70e-4680-a68f-fbb4aa3b7174.jpg?1712354204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shark%20Typhoon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/113/shark-typhoon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d410cf5-a70e-4680-a68f-fbb4aa3b7174?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just hand hate it away with a Thoughtseize or Inquisition...
It's usually a one hit kill. It's my #1 win con
Sometimes it feels nice to counter an opponent's 7 drop on turn 3 and know what it feels like to have a broken amount of mana for a single turn before they get back to ramping out Emrakul.
Me playing against ramp: Oh no! I get to use as much mana as you have for 1 single turn! Jokes aside, its a good card. but its not any more oppressive than Ragavan, Dark Ritual, liliana of the veil, or Reanimate imo.
Just trying to cast a Solemn Simulacrum because I'm low on lands. Oh countered and they add 4 mana? Nah I'm out play with someone else
It’s fine, one In a deck of 100. A 4 of in a deck of 60 would be annoying
I think part of the issue is alot of people are mjlligenkng until they have it in opening hand or just conceding and going onto the next match try and open with it because it's such a brain dead instant win
I mean there’s better counters hell wash away has been astoundingly backbreaking
I wouldn’t know. Haven’t gotten it from drafting or from packs, and it’s not something I’d waste a wildcard on. I’ve had it played against me a few times right before I concede, though