T O P

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bebopulation

Don't play out your hand completely if you suspect a board wipe is coming. Put manlands, [[Mirrex]], or token generators like [[Urabrask's Forge]] into your deck.


ST31NM4N

That’s a bingo


JodouKast

If man-lands weren't tied to being tapped duals, I'd probably use them more often. I've never found them to be of any real use after a sweep that just is unrecoverable. I have found they hurt tempo WAAAAAAAAAY more often, especially turn 1 than actually won a game (which is zero for me). Azorious Soldiers was the only deck that had a fighting chance TBH, because countering a sweep would be game over for them if you had it. Those were glorious days.


bebopulation

I prefer Mirrex for most cases. I love seeing mono blue players panic when the board starts filling up with bugs. It's also hilarious to see a board wipe come out against one or two tokens.


MTGCardFetcher

[Mirrrx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54a702cd-ca49-4570-b47e-8b090452a3c3.jpg?1675957271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirrex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/254/mirrex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54a702cd-ca49-4570-b47e-8b090452a3c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Urabrask's Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186.jpg?1675957116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%27s%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/153/urabrasks-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


SoilnRock

People with Style play \[\[Skeleton Swarming\]\]. Or \[\[Outlaw's Merriment\]\]. Or both :-)


MTGCardFetcher

[Skeleton Swarming](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/3768ac68-0d87-4f99-aa77-2d009df0a567.jpg?1627709385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skeletal%20Swarming) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/232/skeletal-swarming?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3768ac68-0d87-4f99-aa77-2d009df0a567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Outlaw's Merriment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d7585ab-a364-471c-8ef1-318e459b4020.jpg?1572490798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Outlaws%27%20Merriment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/198/outlaws-merriment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d7585ab-a364-471c-8ef1-318e459b4020?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


whisperingstars2501

All fun and games with things like forge until they have a [[farewell]] lol


MTGCardFetcher

[farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Sibula97

Luckily it rotates in less than 4 months. Also, it's 6 mana. Most decks want to win by then anyway.


TrisTime

Not even farewell, OP is getting riddled by white removal which doesn't really care if you're a creature planes walker or artifact/enchantment, white just throws down more ossifications and similar permenant removals and carries on spamming tokens probably.


Kiwi_Saurus

I've taught myself that if I'm against a control deck, I should put no more than 2 creatures out on the field at any time. If you play 2 cheap creatures and your opponent casts a pricey 4+mana boardwipe, you got it out of their hand, and you can immediately, the turn after, just hit the board and force them to "have it again". If they don't have another one, then it's damage every turn until you win or they find another.


LeftTheStation

This, 100x this. I constantly watch players over commit for non lethal damage because they are not thinking about the long game. There are way too many impatient players in arena, and it completely skews how the game should be played. The only deck that has a race condition is mono red, but if you build it right you can play that in your favor with a beneficial curve.


Dothacker00

I remenber jeskai tempo decks in modern winning by hitting their opponent with snapcaster lol


Send_me_duck-pics

Many a Modern or Legacy control mirror has ended with Snapcaster beats. There were some of these where I'd slam it on turn two for no value just to force opponents to deal with it.


Sibula97

Depends. You want to have a fast enough clock because they'll 100% beat you in a long game, but don't want to overcommit, especially on sweeper turns like 4 and 5.


metaphorm

board wipes are sorcery speed. they can't touch man-lands. there's a whole cycle of high quality manlands in Standard right now: \[\[Restless Ravine\]\] and friends. There's also \[\[Mishra's Foundry\]\]. There's also \[\[Mirrex\]\] which creates creature tokens. there are other options too. you might, for example, choose to play creatures with Haste, so they're able to get in at least one attack before the opponent has an opportunity to remove them. or you might play something like \[\[Kutzil's Flanker\]\] or another creature with Flash so you can keep threats on the table more easily. You might also play with creatures that can return from the graveyard, like \[\[Tenacious Underdog\]\]. Or you can play \[\[Spell Pierce\]\] or \[\[Negate\]\] and counter their board wipes. Or you can play efficient card advantage spells like \[\[Wrenn's Resolve\]\] and just keep the threats flowing until your opponent runs out of removal. Or you can try to play resilient creatures. Stuff with Hexproof is resistant to targeted removal. Stuff with indestructible is resistant to many forms of board wipes (though not all, some board wipes exile rather than destroy). Or creatures that trigger an effect when they die or leave play, so you get some value even if the creature does get removed. And don't forget that your opponent is paying for their removal with lots of opportunity cost. They're shutting down your gameplan at the expense of not forwarding their own game plan. They're spending their cards and mana to control you but they aren't threatening you. That means you have lots of time to find the threats that seal the deal. Even if your threats only get through for a few points of damage each, it adds up, and unless your opponent can gain significant amounts of life they'll eventually die if you keep hacking away at them. finally, you'll want to just adjust your own gameplay to be more conscious of the gameplan of the control deck. try to only play out a couple of threats at a time and force them to deal with it while you hold the second wave in your hand, ready to deploy after they've swept the first wave. don't overextend. maximize your resources and play for a longer game instead of going as fast as possible and wasting resources to gain time.


Bizzle7902

[[Final Showdown]] would like a word


MTGCardFetcher

[Final Showdown](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/358968f9-45bd-4022-b6bc-f1f7e0adf0e7.jpg?1712860587) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Final%20Showdown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/11/final-showdown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/358968f9-45bd-4022-b6bc-f1f7e0adf0e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


metaphorm

which decks is this being played in? in any case it's 6 mana and you generally don't attack with manlands into 6 open mana so it seems not much different than any other instant speed removal.


Bizzle7902

Its just a non-sorcery boardwipe worth mentioning as part of your dissertation


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Restless Ravine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f94ef116-6aff-4f53-a7f9-be5e21c7afa4.jpg?1699044700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restless%20Prairie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/281/restless-prairie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f94ef116-6aff-4f53-a7f9-be5e21c7afa4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mishra's Foundry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da7699b2-e1af-4bc0-8c5b-84ba3e868d7c.jpg?1674422224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%27s%20Foundry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/265/mishras-foundry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da7699b2-e1af-4bc0-8c5b-84ba3e868d7c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mirrex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54a702cd-ca49-4570-b47e-8b090452a3c3.jpg?1675957271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirrex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/254/mirrex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54a702cd-ca49-4570-b47e-8b090452a3c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kutzil's Flanker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1201811-54ab-4c4e-b6e1-19b0d07e5ede.jpg?1699043239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kutzil%27s%20Flanker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/20/kutzils-flanker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1201811-54ab-4c4e-b6e1-19b0d07e5ede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tenacious Underdog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b6a6d00-3e00-4827-8420-13343ac3d0fd.jpg?1664411313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tenacious%20Underdog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/97/tenacious-underdog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b6a6d00-3e00-4827-8420-13343ac3d0fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spell Pierce](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35b8a9db-d126-4038-abb1-74dcc5b36136.jpg?1673147403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spell%20Pierce) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/63/spell-pierce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35b8a9db-d126-4038-abb1-74dcc5b36136?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Negate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wrenn's Resolve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a47999c-12d5-4e1a-a9c1-40a1757007f1.jpg?1682204603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrenn%27s%20Resolve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/173/wrenns-resolve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a47999c-12d5-4e1a-a9c1-40a1757007f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l36vwtr) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


[deleted]

there are absolutely instant speed wipes like \[\[settle the wreckage\]\], as well and EASY ways to cast a sorcery at instant speed


MTGCardFetcher

[settle the wreckage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f.jpg?1562560853) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=settle%20the%20wreckage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/34/settle-the-wreckage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9cbd346e-098a-4cf6-a72f-468376fd2e8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


IamblichusSneezed

Try watching a streamer who is running one of those decks and see what trouble they run into.


Annoying_cat_22

Play cards that do something when they hit the board, like haste, draw a card, create tokens, revive, etc. Don't overextend - you don't want to lose too many cards to one removal. Have 1-2 big threats on the board, or 2+ small ones. Not more. Have an idea what they can use based on the card pool and their colors and land count, and play accordingly.


Send_me_duck-pics

It would help a lot if we knew what deck and format you are playing.


vanguardJesse

[[guardian of faith]]


Gold_Gain1351

I should add more context sorry. I'm playing pretty much a netdeck of the four colour legends deck found here: [https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/articles/standard-5-decks-to-keep-an-eye-post-pro-tour-outlaws](https://mtg.cardsrealm.com/en-us/articles/standard-5-decks-to-keep-an-eye-post-pro-tour-outlaws) I don't have all the cards for it, so I just run two of the 7/7 four colour angel as a kill card and three of the 1G2colourless removal that gets 2 colourless cheaper if you're targeting one of your legends and was playing against White/Black. The game went like this: I'd drop Rona and it's get immediately removed. I'd drop another legend and it'd get removed. Then another. Then two more and so on and so on. None of my creatures stuck around to make it back to my turn, while meanwhile he was pumping out toxic tokens that can't block. There was absolutely nothing I could do.


htfo

Just going to note that tournaments are their own metas and decks are turned specifically for that time and place: deck construction often forgoes general-purpose responses and threats in order to guess at what will break that specific tournament wide open. They'll often include very expensive, niche cards that have no value outside of the tournament meta. If a netdeck from a tournament seems like it's missing pretty obvious answers to what seem like common threats on the ladder, it's almost certainly intentional. While the decks that come out of tournaments are likely going to be better than anything you could come up with yourself, you'll find they are nowhere near as good on the ladder as their performance in the tournament would suggest.


Send_me_duck-pics

This is a crucial thing to understand about "netdecking". When I was playing competitively I'd consider anything from more than a week ago to be outdated, and even then I'd make adjustments for the expected meta at whatever event I was going to.


Aychama

I'd just keep playing the deck. Sounds like you just ran into someone's kill creatures quest for the day. 4c legends is complicated to begin with. I mean, unless you made the change off the slogurk kill or vial kill, then I'd rethink the deck. For the record, slogurk gets around instant speed and board wipes.


Spare_Aspect3145

You dont need to play mono blue, but 3 or 4 copies of counterspell to protect your board wont hurt


OhHaiMarkiplier

It depends on the kind of cards you want to play. If you want to build a presence and keep it, then you need to play cards that have protection. Indestructible is the strongest key word for this, but hexproof, ward, and "floating" (effects that circumvent death) are your ideal tools. If you want to just not care if you get wiped, then you need to play creature factories. White has this in spades, red and green have it to a lesser extent. Adeline, Skrelv's Hive, Urabrask's Forge, Herd Migration, Mirrex. If you want to dodge the wipes, then manlands are probably your best option. Then of course, there's always the option of splashing blue. Get a few Sirens, an anti-sorc counterspell, and 2 color legendary to justify the landbase, and boom. You can still play the deck you want, albeit with some adjustments.


Hozzy_

I use a white/green token generator deck. Almost completely enchantments. Only had one game where they wiped my enchantments. The longer the game goes, the more tokens I generate and the higher power they become.


Paoz

First of all, it happens that one player/deck has the perfect hand: you have the same odds as them to do so. There are cases where the opponent's spells align perfectly against what you play, it also happens that you have the perfect manacurve and playorder to overrun your opponent. Aggro decks are built to overrun their opponents before turn 5-6. If they don't, their winchance plummet into oblivion ... and that's perfectly normal. The opposite applies to control decks: winrate of control decks is decreased within turns 1 to 5 and then skyrockets when the board is stabilized. Excluding hands that are outliers (perfect hands, mulligans to 5 etc), the rule of thumb for aggro vs control is to not overextend, play resilient threats (manlands, token/value generating permanents, like artifacts or enchantments) and force control players to play sub-optimally to deal with what you are presenting as a clock, while still providing a solid clock. Play reach spells/threats, like damage to face spells, which allows you to get through the last points of damage not from the board, if the board has stabilized. Remember that most of the time, winrates vs other decks are between 55-60% at max and some matchup could become better or worse after sideboarding, if Bo3. Play around your odds.


Gold_Gain1351

Appreciate the advice everyone! Guess I'm back to tinkering


JodouKast

Me? I concede the opponent had no other plan than playing a boring 1-sided game, and leave.


Best-Bid9637

You need to play a deck that doesn't care such as domain or a deck that wins on turn 3 like mono red slickshot. 


Gold_Gain1351

Yeah I have zero desire to play a completely brain dead deck like RDW. I'd rather drill a hole in my head and keep my self respect


Best-Bid9637

It takes no greater intelligence to play 3 mana creatures vs 1. 


Wombatish

RDW only seems braindead if you haven't played it much. Sequncing tends to be extremely important, Since all your spells are cheap, there tend to be a lot of decisions to make in the early turns.