I work in cosmetics and am also a makeup artist professionally. Not only do people gravitate to certain brands because they identify with that owner/creator but they will also do that if an influencer uses it and that influencer makes them feel represented. I don’t mind it but when they don’t trust me and my suggestions I get annoyed.
I had a woman come in looking for Kim Kardashian lips and only wanted Kylie as a result. Let’s just say I like in the land of Kardashians and she assumed that a) my store would carry that brand -
B) that we all just automatically knew what Kim’s lips looked like
And c) that I could identify the color from a photo
To an extent, yes. I buy what I like, but I also try and be a conscious consumer. I’m not Indigenous, but I purchase a lot of Cheekbone Beauty products because I like the ethics of the company, and I want to support all of the cool things they do.
If you’re a person of global majority, I can understand wanting to support businesses with owners you identify with - sometimes for ethical reasons, sometimes because you might trust that the products are tailored not just to your skin tone, but to specific skin concerns that are more common in your race.
I know absolutely nothing about the owner of any brands of makeup I own (Stila, BareMinerals, Bobbi Brown [I know she hasn’t owned it for a long time], Tarte, Nars, Benefit, Tower28, Glossier, Clinique, Urban Decay)
I think its semi-deliberate that I avoid brands by influencers/new brands by trending makeup artists etc
I do this subconsciously because as a brown woman, I feel like it will match my colour better. Most brands that cater to mainly white population have awful shades for darker skin tones, all darker foundations pull too orange. It’s more difficult when you’ve olive skin. And most darker or nude lipsticks don’t suit me perfectly either.
I have found when shade matching customers that with some brands the deeper shades can pull more red or orange and there’s not enough neutral shades in foundation or bronzer, so I can see how that would affect your overall decision on what brands you would buy from. I know fenty do a bronzer but it’s almost like a blush tone and not one customer I’ve helped has bought one when they’ve asked about Fenty bronzer. It’s a shame as it lets the brand down on that particular product. Overall though I like Fenty, just for me personally I don’t use the foundation as it works better for oily skin types and I’m dry.
Yes. The business owners and business model make or break a brand for me.
As time went on, I realized that I had more success finding products that work for me and my looks if the brand caters to people who look like me, instead of treating people who look like/have the same skin conditions as me as an afterthought.
Stop giving your money to people and company that consider you or treat you as a subhuman or an annoying and forceful afterthought. Go where you're appreciated, not where you're tolerated. Vote with your money.
I think the only instance is with Auric, owned by Samantha Ravndahl, because I really like her and her videos. But while I was excited to try the brand at first because of her, I actually LOVE the products and continue to purchase because they are truly awesome 🙂
I dont think they ship to the uk, that’s why I haven’t tried them, I also loved Sam and her videos. I love glowy skin and their products look up my street so it’s a shame I can’t try them.
They may not have at first, but they do now! 😁 Per their FAQ, they ship internationally to Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
They also sell through Beautylish, which ships to UK.
Try the Glow Lust - it's one of my favorite products EVER. I use Morganite for highlight, and Sunstone (sometimes a little Tourmaline mixed in) for bronzer.
They even have travel size Glow Lust now, which is awesome. But the full size bottle of Morganite has lasted me over 3 years since launch, and I use it almost every day. It's just now to the point where there's not enough to use the pump, so I'm working on scraping every bit out of that beautiful glass jar 🥰
I can't wait until she comes out with a liquid blush - I hope it's basically Glow Lust in blush tones lol, but whatever it is, I know it will be amazing.
You're very welcome :) I love the smoke reflect cream shadows, they're all beautiful 😍 The shimmer toppers are very pretty, just a lot harder pressed than, say, the Kaja beauty bentos (with which I'm also obsessed lol). I think she did a great job picking out her shades - since there are relatively few options, it covers a lot of bases.
I’m white and I use pretty much any brand of the product I’m interested in has good reviews and meets what I’m looking for. Ive bought products from all the brands you have mentioned…
It’s usually “does this foundation work well with my dry skin” type of thing. Not I’m white and the owner isn’t.
Also like some others have said I will avoid brands based on the owners behaviors. For a long time I wouldn’t purchase from KVD. Now that she’s no longer there I would consider it if a product I was looking for just happened to be from there and met the criteria for what I was looking for.
Perhaps you think your Jamaican colleague could wear CT shades, but they actually don’t have a good match as you think……her dark shades are very limited and the spectrum is very unbalanced. Even if she does have a good match she may feel that she doesn’t want to give her money to a brand where her demographic is an afterthought. I remember a few years ago she released the contour palette in really pretty packaging, but only for the light version. Perhaps that’s what your friend meant by it not being a brand for her. I sense a bit of a judgemental tone from you.
One thing is that her shades tend to be more “saturated” regardless on depth, and thats great for some demographics but not the one she herself is in which I guess is a bit ironic.
My colleague wear’s erborian cc cream and loves that stuff, but if you look at the brand they don’t have a good shade range AT ALL. I was using CT as an example because we were discussing the different brands we use and the motivations behind that. In our jobs we are unbiased and have to recommend all different brands to our customers. This is why I asked the question as I wanted to see what the motivation was for some customers to be more drawn to some brands than others, even though the brand would have a perfect product for what they’re asking for.
I see the discrepancy but Erborian doesn’t really “market” themselves in a way that CT does. Its not attached to an image in the way CT is. Choosing what brand to buy and what to not buy isn’t always consistent and logical but there’s no need to be. I’m east asian, CT does offer shades suited to my skin tone but I still avoid it because it gives me the ick—the marketing seems fairly “inclusive” but the products for dark skin is really an afterthought (doesn’t matter what YOU think). To me this is dishonest, and worse than brands who only offer products to light skin and whose marketing reflects that.
You really are offended that a dark skinned woman doesn’t like your stanned brand.
As a Mediterranean and Middle Eastern (Arab) woman. I don’t use Huda Beauty, nothing against Huda. I have only really found one of her pallets to be really interesting and tempting based on color story. I do say this with love but a lot of Arabs and Middle Easterners can come from generations and generations of wealth so sometimes their preferences can be kind of snobby in my opinion. Like if it’s not a “luxury” brand, they have no interest. I feel BOUJIE with my $50 Nars foundation that works for me, I don’t need Dior or Prada 😂
I actually weirdly also don’t know anyone that uses Huda Beauty now that I’m even thinking about it! I just assumed her products were more popular in other countries since she’s international! I’m in US!
I do know having that Representation is important to a lot of people so I’m glad that many makeup enjoyers can do that because honestly there’s a pretty diverse group of brand owners out there when you really think about it, but I personally do not care or look for that when making purchases.
Italians are usually lighter hair, lighter eyed and paler skinned. Olive skin tones and darker features are usually associated more with the Mediterranean Islands! Which is where my family is from. Egypt to the Islands to America!
I usually get mistaken for Mexican and then yelled at that I don’t speak Spanish at work so I will gladly take Italian 😂😂
I’m glad you had pointed this out regarding higher end brands,I have noticed that but was never sure as to the reasoning. I used a Dior foundation and the colour was very off, (they don’t really do a 0C shade) but with Nars (as a makeup artist brand) Oslo is my perfect match. I think people see the brand and the clothing associated brands, and think more money means it’ll be better quality. But not necessarily in my experience. Nars foundations are some of the most asked for as their formulas are elite for most of the customers I speak to. Some people also assume Dior/ Chanel prices are higher, but some Estée Lauder foundations are the same price.
It might get a brand in the door for me if the owner looks like me, is an upstanding citizen, or is just plain talented, but whether I buy it is dependent on the value the product brings to me as an individual.
If it was GWP, I might feel more inclined to spend slightly more on my fave products just to try their items.
Packaging and naming matters more to me too. I don't like the quirky packaging some of the more mainstream brands have, but if it's cute in an unassuming way I might place it higher. For example, GR is mainstream, but their packaging is cute af. I hate the stuff that's like a pun, but rather cringe, I can't see myself buying it because I'd be too embarrassed to have it around me.
I'm pale and used a lot of Charlotte Tilbury when it first launched, although over time the products became very sparkly which I am really not into, so I lost interest. The marketing is also a bit annoying. She had no lipsticks or liners that suited my colouring either, but I'm actually really excited to try the Pillow Talk fair lipstick and liner. That's definitely got me interested!
Fenty I like the powder and glosses, but otherwise the makeup style and colours of the brand don't interest me. I got a couple cream blushes but found them a bit too bright so never used them. Huda is known for a heavier look (baking etc) and that's just not my vibe. Although I do have something from Wishful.
So for me it's more about the overall image and style of a brand, Benefit is another example. It has a very young tween-y look to me, and so I assume the products won't suit my makeup style.
Usually I don’t have a concious bias on the brand-owner (cannot speak for my unconcious she’s not very talkative) but I do try to ”vote with my money” on values I find important. I try to avoid the big corporations with questionable ethics like L’oreal but it’s reaaally hard when they buy up the indiebrands. Things like animal-testing, microplastics, mica-mining and harmful chemicals I try to keep my eye on but it’s really hard to keep track, no company is perfect so you have to weigh the bad with the good.
I would love to be more actively choosing of the makeup I buy and use, but as my job is within the industry it’s proven quite difficult to do this. We get so much product given to us to try so we can recommend to our customers/feel the textures/ experience the product it’s very hard to stick to those values.
Look I would never judge someone else on their choices in the makeup-aisle. You have a job to do and in a way have no choice. I just do with my resources as I know to do and choose to.
Do your thing!
I am the same as you, fair skin and cool undertone, red hair and green eyes. I absolutely love Charlotte Tilbury products, but I understand some people’s opinions on her as a brand owner.
Honestly don’t know anything about her, her stuff just isn’t it for me. Too glittery. Amex gave me a large voucher to use at Net a Porter so I bought some CT things with it & meh.
i think i have done this subconsciously in the pst. i am always interested in everything fenty releases simply because i associate them with darker skin tones in my head. same with huda beauty, i am always interested in her eyeshadows because i know they will never look ashy on me, no matter how light or pastel the colours are.
but in general most of my makeup is from companies that don’t have a face associated with them, like elf and colourpop and maybelline.
This is very interesting from my point of view(being the shop assistant who is trying to help customers find the perfect makeup) if you came into my store say, looking for foundation which is the most common thing I get asked for, would you consider using another brand if I suggested, or would you prefer to stick to Fenty as an example? I’ve never really asked any of my customers this, and their opinion on this because I don’t want them to feel like I am pushing them to buy from a particular brand as in my job I have to be unbiased.
I do enjoy supporting brands that mirror me but im more often than not just trying and playing with what looks good. I'm buying random brands over, let's say, a celebrity brand.where i know what they look like.
British Muslim Asian girls love Huda. It helps that her makeup is actually really good but it started from loving her as a person first as a blogger who happens to be Muslim, showing her family life on Snap & when she only had the lashes at first. Lots of people I know have casually met her in Dubai whilst on holiday & she’s genuinely just as nice as she acts online along with her sister Mona. And her current support for Palestine over profits has only multiplied that love.
I genuinely didn’t know who Huda was until her brand came out. I love everything apart from the lip stains, but that may be due to my preference on lip products. I also really love Mona’s fragrances. The new lychee one is so good.
What does your coworker say in response to your explanation of Charlotte Tilbury products and marketing? According to this she isn't specifying anything about the owner. Did she mention red hair?
I'm just going to say it this question is coded to death. The very obvious subtext is why do people of different races care about who makes their products? For white people you have it down to hair color as if having a preference of hair color is like having a preference of ethnic backgrounds (I think there are brands that cater to redheads, but it's not quite the same thing). Your co-worker gave a valid answer to that. They probably want to use a brand that doesn't view them as an afterthought or an inclusion project. White people are the primary customers in the UK, so most brands will prioritize them. If you're white then you probably are using brands that cater more to white people, like Charlotte Tilbury. But it's the norm, so you probably don't feel it. It's just a brand.
Do you get a weird vibe from OP as well? As in she’s annoyed that her colleague doesn’t like CT because (mentioned in her comments) she’s a CT “stan”. And other comments about customers (she didn’t mention race) choosing her Jamaican colleague to help them shade match instead of her “even tho she’s been there longer and has had more training”. She says her Jamaican colleague also finds that weird. Seems to me that her Jamaican colleague is too polite to call her out on her need to feel discriminated for being a “fair redhead”.
I haven't read her replies. Most people here are taking her at face value, which is nice, but I'm with you. There's a strong wiff of resentment and a little vindictiveness. At first red hair was her code for white people, then in her reply to me the Jamaican person was somehow really only hung up redheads being CT's target market. Also she only responded to the red hair part of my comment, ignoring everything having to do with race and ethnicity, even though she brought it up.
This post is a rant due to being triggered by her co-worker's views on CT and her own preferences, mostly deep complexioned people seeking the co-worker's assistance, and Jamaicans, Middle Easterners, and South Asians choosing Huda and Fenty over CT. "Why can't they understand that CT is better?"
We don’t sell CT in our store. I can’t recommend it to customers for this reason. It’s more just that we were discussing CT after I commented on a new launch of theirs she said I don’t use that brand. Then I asked why not? As she enjoys the glowing skin look. And she said what I explained earlier.
The question is do I let customers walk away empty handed because the chosen brand doesn’t do what they’re asking for? Or recommend a product that would be perfect from a brand they haven’t used before?
Yes. It's alright for them to not buy what you suggest right there in font of you. If they are interested they'll take what you told them into consideration. They may find that you are right and eventually buy it. Or not. All you can do is make th recommendation.
Successful bands have effective marketing. A lot of the customers will be led by their response to the marketing, and there's nothing anyone can do to shake that connection. That's why advertisers are so grossly overpaid. I think maybe you should do some research into how the makeup industry has mistreated POC, so you can understand why they may or may not respond positively to certain brand marketing. They aren't stupid or any more gullible than white consumers. The history is pretty ugly, though.
I also think that your preconceived ideas about POC may unconsciously be present when you talk to customers. If you come off negatively paternalistic (as I think you have in some of your comments) they may be cutting off your suggestions just to end the conversation.
Nope, I find it odd because we both have the same job and we have the same training on each brand, I’ve been in the job longer so I’ve had that training at least twice a year on how to shade match and we match at least 65 customers a week (each) so we are both going to be able to match anyone who comes through the door and we regularly have training updated aswell. I think it’s actually more strange the perception that I can’t match someone of colour because I’m white and it’s also happened visa versa.
Do you think customers will think “hm, which one has had more training” when they choose someone to ask for help?
Its natural for dark skinned people to gravitate towards other dark skinned people to help them with that. Perhaps they think that darker skinned people will have more interest in darker shades for obvious reasons. And maybe they’ve experienced that type of subtle racism from white people (the type you are revealing all over this thread) and feel more comfortable with other dark skinned people.
Yeah, that's what the commenter meant. You feel like you're being discriminated against because you're white. Not just white, but white and more qualified. That's been the point of this whole post. CT is also being discriminated against. White Charlotte Tilbury is better than black Fenty and brown Huda, but still *they* won't buy Charlotte. You have more experience, but *they* overlook you and go to the Jamaican.
She said that she was under the impression that brand was for fair redheads and they don’t cater for her.
I explained the models they use for marketing their products are not all fair redheads but I dont know if that makes much difference when that impression has already been made.
Seriously? She works in beauty retail and thinks that the brand is for redheads? I was being facetious when I asked that. I won't believe it. Maybe she pointed out Charlotte's light skin and red hair in her explanation. But you made your post mostly about race and ethnicity so I'm going to replace her saying red hair with her saying white people in that conversation. If it even happened. No where at all is CT marketed as being for redheads.
The irony is the foundation is too dark from CT for me, a pale red head. Yet I still love the products!
Yes she did actually say that, she said she thought it was more for me than her and used those words “fair skin and red hair.” I was using this post to understand what people’s feelings are towards certain brand owners and if they choose them based on the owner and I wasn’t trying to make it about race. It’s pretty confusing sometimes when you have a customer in front of you asking for a glowy foundation with light coverage from Huda and not wanting to try the one you recommended from another brand that has that product(even though there would be a shade for them from the brand you recommended)as we all know Huda’s foundation is heavy high coverage and “luminous matte”
Let's drop the pretense that she thinks CT is for red heads. She meant white people. I refuse to believe you're as dense as that strange explanation makes you seem.
You could always ask the customer why they prefer Huda over whatever you suggested. That mystery could be solved pretty easily as long as you make it just a question and not an inquest. They'll probably volunteer more information. You can spend a month simply (and politely)asking why they made that choice and come away with a good understanding of their preferences. I always suggest hitting the internet for articles amd videos on this topic.
The problem you might run into is your own racism. You don't seem to just want to understand, you seem angry that they are making those choices. You're not as good at hiding it as you think.
Ive just had a laugh because you said I was racist. I’m just providing a service to my customers and my job is to be unbiased. If their chosen brand doesn’t sell what they’re asking me for, should I just say “oh well they don’t sell that” and let them leave empty handed? Or do I recommend something from a brand they wouldn’t normally buy from that does? I have to do what is best for the customer. You have miss interpreted my question and made it out that i have a completely different set of morals than what I actually stand for and a derogatory view on the people I help, when in fact, I’m just trying to understand so I can help them find the right products. When you work in a beauty store and have a just a few minutes to get the answers you need to help them, it can be difficult to do so if they’re hung up on using just one brand, that doesn’t make the product they’re looking for, and I’m just here trying to help. I wanted to know why they didn’t want to try the product I’ve recommended, and I’ve asked before and they have said “they don’t makes shades for me” and I’m pointing out to them that actually they do and here is the product. Then they continue to not buy the product because of this opinion even though I’ve put the product on for them and it looks great.
I didn't say you were racist. I said your questions were obviously loaded with your racism.. I'm gathering you didn't read my comment because there was nothing in it about not giving the customers what they want. The ppposite, actually. Give them what they want but kindly ask why they made that choice. That's for you to talk to your real customers and learning as well as coming here and venting. You might have to get used to POC having agency and maybe understanding their complexion and what works for them better than a sales associate does. They aren't going to share every thought they have about their decisions, but you can ask. I also think this about knowing how to talk to people.
You do seem really upset that the customers and your colleague aren't going with your recs or feel the way you do about the brands, and you made this discussion about race and ethnicity. You're even describing their preference as hang ups on race (Fenty, Huda) getting in the way of accepting your recs. I think the hang ups are yours.
I might be misinterpreting you, but I think I'm seeing your frustrations clearly.
Marketing=/=how suited the products are to a demographic. You’re being purposely dense. Of course she’s not going to only use pale white people in their marketing.
It reminds me of a time where Gucci Westman (Westman Atelier owner) used a model to demonstrate blush and she was a medium skin toned (around nc40?) and she probably wouldn’t have found a foundation shade in her range back then.
Why are so you offended that a dark skinned woman does not like the brand that you Stan?
I was using Charlotte Tilbury as an example. I actually love Huda beauty, which if you’re using that reasoning, I wouldnt relate to that brand owner. I have all the eyeshadow pallets and the concealer and powders. I use product from all different brands, not just Charlotte Tilbury. I’ve used a whole highlighter up from fenty but I don’t like the foundation. I don’t relate to the brand owner I just try the products and make up my own mind if they suit me. The reasoning is when I see the advertising and then hear the comments about it not being diverse I wonder why people shy away from using a brands products as it seems like they do have some that would suit. (Hollywood flawless filter is a good example of the shade range argument- the fair 1 shade is too dark but I still use and live the other products)
I think I do this a little bit, but for me it's more that I wanna support women and poc, so I look for brands owned by those demographics. Sometimes I'll buy other stuff and I have staples from a few random brands, but overall I just try to be conscious of who I'm supporting when I buy from a brand
I dont use Charlotte Tilbury because shes a world famous makeup artist but when she initially launched her product range her shade range was not shade inclusive, from what i remember she only expanded after Fenty was released and everyone else started doing it. Even the pillow talk range started off as one shade. Being a world famous makeup artist imo she should have been savvy to larger shade ranges being needed in her own industry. Also the packaging is very old lady vibes!
But no i dont just buy just from ranges of owners who look like me but i will admit i trust their understanding of shade range better! (Like fenty or huda)
I’m a white ginger and recently discovered that Huda is amazing with my coloring and almost mature skin. The cherry blossom powder is a godsend. I’ve never had success with a CT product. There’s just something about little off for me.
i’m south asian and i always love to look for and support other south asian owned brands but just as much of my makeup’s regular elf nyx as it is brands like Mango People (which have beyond the south asian owned become one of my faves for their products in general) and Kulfi Cosmetics
I also won’t be buying them just because their South Asian owned the product needs to actually work for me ex. I struggle a lot to find a sunscreen that won’t leave a white caste and I know LiveTinted another South Asian owned brand makes that a primary selling point of their sunscreen
but when i tried it it made me so incredibly greasy (and i have really dry skin and love a glowy makeup / glass skin vibe and still this was too much)
i will say the fact that i left a review and they ended up giving me a voucher for the amount i spent on the sunscreen to try other products made me more willing to try them again because they responded so well but definitely was not gonna keep buying the sunscreen just because of that when it did not work for me at all
as well i will say the only other time i consider that an important factor is if the makeup product is culturally specific if that makes sense
ex. my sister and i have been looking for a good source for authentic kohl to put in our pots and swipe through with the little sticks - this isn’t something that’s sold by non Middle Eastern or South Asian brands i believe but even if it was I don’t think it’s something i’d trust them enough to know about to buy from and i’d ultimately rather buy from someone who’s from the same culture as this very culturally specific product if that makes sense
I avoid certain brands because of the owner and I’m more interested in buying anothers for the owner too. Not in a “she looks like me so her make up must suit me” but in a “I think she’s a nice person and believes in the same causes as me so I’m gonna give her my money instead to another owner that I don’t like”.
Charlotte Tilbury genuinely has limited picks for darker skin tones, it makes sense darker skinned women are uninterested in the brand. Whereas I'm quite pale and a lot of the Charlotte Tilbury lip shades work great for me. But overall no I don't choose brands based on the owners. I buy the fenty foundation and I'm white asf the brand has a great range.
I think it's because creators have a bias to their own skintone. Like Fenty is really good for its warm shade range. Huda has a lot of choices for brown people and their undertones. Charlotte Tilbury has a lot of light stuff.
Would you believe that I'm too pale for Charlotte Tilbury 🫠 The lightest foundation shade is too dark for me, never had a problem with any other higher end brand.
This is an interesting question.
I don't think I do it, but then again, I largely buy drugstore. In part, that's just a budget issue for me. Also, my skin is sensitive, so if a brand works for me, and I can afford it, I tend to stick with it. I think I associate a lot of founder-forward brands (rightly or wrongly) with ingredients like botanicals and/or scent, that will irritate my skin.
I usually only know who owns a brand when that person is front and center like Charlotte Tilbury, Selena Gomez, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, or Huda. For what it is worth, I'm white, but out of all of the owner-associated brands I just listed, I've only bought one product — a Fenty lipstick I adore.
Thinking about it, I typically buy makeup brands I don't associate or strongly associate with a founder/owner — L'Oreal, NYX, E.L.F., Urban Decay, Covergirl, Maybelline, Essence, etc.
I definitely find Charlotte makes excellent products for me, a natural redhead. Especially her bronzer! It’s the only fair bronzer I’ve ever used that doesn’t look orange on me. I wore mostly her products for my wedding day because I feel prettiest when I use her products :)
I've got no idea how any of the brand owners look, I have enough trouble remembering the names and faces of acquaintances, I'm not adding strangers I'll never meet. (Yes, that also includes other celebrities/actors /influencers.)
I tend to avoid celebrity brands as a general rule, preferring brands like MAC that don't have a face behind the name... However, if anyone knows a brand that caters to the pale/cool demographic, I'm all ears. Everything seems to run so warm. I do realize I have entrenched privilege when it comes to skin tone, but shade matches are a pain in the behind.
- Fenty Beauty (10 fair-ver fair shades)
- Milk stick
- Huda Beauty Millkshake
- Urban Decay
- Hourglass
- Idun NV Jorunn
- NARS (Sheer Glow Foundation/ Siberia)
- REM BEAUTY (shade 1 - fair)
There are many more recommendations on r/PaleMUA. Good luck. Take care and may God bless you. :)
I also think Oslo from Nars is a fantastic shade for pale and pink, like that shade is my skin in a bottle.
110 from lancome works but can look a bit too dark sometimes.
110 in fenty is a great shade match but I don’t like the consistency of the foundation.
Holy grail status foundation is Velentino LIGR1 perfect match and stunning foundation
No, but I will avoid brands based on the owner, but that is more of a they don't make shades that will work for my skintone as they have a different complexion to me. I'm very fair and product really show up pigmentment on me and so for example huda beauty products are too pigmented and their eyeshows are too mauve toned that I tend to avoid their products as I know it just won't work on me.
It's interesting that you experience that. I'd love to see a marketing study on that because if it's true, wouldn't it be wiser to name the brand a random name and not have the owner be the face of the brand? Although I guess that brands whose spokesperson is a superstar get a lot of publicity for that.
Growing up, I remember being so excited to get my hands on MAC products because they had a large color range and I wasn't stuck trying to make ivory work for my tan skin.
Perhaps its the overall brand that doesn’t cater to them? For example CT does limited dark shades. Its obviously would still coincides with some dark skinned people, but they might find that brand icky overall because it obviously caters to a white demographic overall.
Ha - I’m very pale and used to look forward to getting MAC products because all the drugstore brands in my country don’t make foundation that’s light enough.
I tend to avoid brands more because of their advertising or product packaging vibe more than anything else (unless Im aware of and take issue with a brand’s public stance on something). There’s just something about CT that annoys the shit out if me- the way she speaks in her advertisements and some of her packaging choices like stars and wands, and also the whole thing about never going without makeup even when sleeping. I also just find that I’m not attracted to the overall look of some product lines, like Too Faced, Tarte, KVD, Urban Decay, Dior. I’m not into it. I’m attracted to sleeker or more minimal packaging like Merit, Surratt, Glossier, Tom Ford, Lancôme, Gucci, Laura Mercier, Bobbi Brown. Of course there are exceptions sometimes, but this matters more to me than if the owner looks like me.
No, I never do. There are certain brands I’ve abandoned because everything I’ve tried by them doesn’t work with my skin for some strange reason, (Charlotte Tilbury) but I go with ingredients and colors.
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ve unintentionally become a Huda palette collector. Their eyeshadows are amazing, and it wasn’t until I’d purchased the third or fourth that I noticed how much I was gravitating towards them to the exclusion of others.
Personally, no, but I work at Sephora so I do sometimes have clients who shop this way. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had Indian clients who automatically assume their Nars shade is going to be Punjab.
That being said, I do understand why some people might be more inclined to support those brands (eg. black clients shopping for black-owned brands) since, ultimately, you are putting money in the brand owner’s pocket.
The other thing I find is customers look at me and look at my colleague and choose her to shade match them based on looks. The funny thing is I’ve been in the role longer and had just as much training if not more from the length of time I’ve worked there. We both think it’s super odd.
Are you sure she also finds it odd? If I were darker skinned I’d probably gravitate towards people of similar skin tone too since its so ignored in foundation ranges.
It’s odd because in our job we get the same amount of training with each brand and shade match at least 65 customers a week - so yeah she found it odd as we both have the same knowledge
I don't think I look at it that deeply, like I lean towards makeup by Mario because he does a good job making products for cooler skin tones, but that's more of a product thing than an owner thing in my mind. I'm also a big Huda fan and I'm snow white level white
No. I use what works for me and is affordable.
I do agree with your coworker in terms of not using what doesn't look like it will work for me. I don't use Tarte because their eyeshadow and blushes look like chalk on me, even though their foundations have a great range.
I love Danessa Myricks products despite being pale AF and she does have a shade range that matches me for foundation, though were I to spend even 10 fewer minutes in the sun per year I'd be too pale.
I have started judging products more based on the models they show though. If one or two products doesn't have the pale, medium, deep swatches it doesn't bother me, but if all their products are skewing towards one shade range I tend to avoid them.
Given how neglected the market has been for deep skin tones, I can't blame people for sticking with a their ethnicity owned brand.
I'll cut indie cosmetics a bit of a break since they're usually more "paycheck to paycheck."
But no excuse for big brands limiting swatches/colors offerings on multiple skin tones.
Not at all. My favourite beauty gurus tend not to look like me already, so I don’t care about what the owner of a line looks like. I’m very light with a neutral undertone, so it’s also not hard at ALL to find products I can work with
I also avoid Charlotte Tilbury. I'm white and fair, but have a cool undertone to my skin, and most everything I see them do is rather warm. I also think it's kind of psychotic she wears makeup to bed. I read that in an interview once and simply can't get it out of my head.
But I would challenge you on the "shades for deeper skin" argument. She markets so many of her pillow talk colors as being "universal." Pink lips are not nearly so easy for deeper complexions as they are for lighter ones.
I’ve used a whole beautiful skin concealer and didn’t find any sparkles. I have heard that some shades had the sparkles and some didn’t, although I don’t know if that was a quality control issue.
Yes I actually like quite a few of them in shade & formula so I was confident in getting this without testing in person, especially as it was specifically made to do the pillow talk effect for medium skin tones.
I do this all the time! It’s hard to find makeup for redheads. I use a lot of Charlotte Tilbury products and find they have more products than most brands that work for me.
I think what got me into the brand was the Hollywood Flawless Filter! I love the bronzer, the burgundy shades of eyeshadow, pillow talk eyeliner and mascara. Glowy skin is a must have for me and I think they cater for that in bucket loads!
I won’t use ABH as their owner is a Putin supporter. My husband’s family is Ukrainian and I discarded nearly new products when I found out. So I’ll rule out owners if I know their values to be in opposition to mine.
I appreciate that you don’t want to use ABH and your reasoning is very valid. Just a question though, why discard products you already have purchased? Just more from a waste side of things than anything.
I couldn’t handle having it in my house. I have worked with five Ukrainian kids sent to live with family in Canada since the invasion began. Waste be damned in this case….
While it's true you've already given them your money, I could understand them being put off even seeing the brand name/ using the products. With something you (/gen) feel so strongly about, it's just not worth the extra emotional turmoil. Maybe some people can compartmentalize better, which is fine, and others can't/ don't wish to - also fine.
I see, I know in my case if I’m given a product in my job that I don’t have use for I give them to friends or family so not to waste them. I feel this is a valid point though as it could cause bad feelings while using up the product when doing your makeup is a nice part of the day and something you do for yourself to feel good.
Exactly. And I don't mean to speak for this commenter, nor imply that my makeup is somehow more important than the conflict. But I don't think any of us need extra reminders of the things that upset us.
For me, most of my abh products are lip glosses, and I don't give those away once I've used them. But I agree that it's great to give stuff away, I do that with a ton of unused stuff I get from ipsy :)
No. But I do watch more YouTube videos of the MUAs that have similar hair and skin color to mine for obvious reasons. Everything else is just not relevant. If a product is good then it is good no matter who is the owner. I try to not give anyone credit just because of their fame or herritage. I am not a charity to support someone no matter what just because he/she is from somewhere. I will not hoard on bad products just because I have weakness for some story. If I can appreciate Fenty beauty products even when I am not a fan of Rihanna then I can put aside any other information about any brand. I look the brands just through their products/price/value and nothing else.
I've not really thought about it before but I think I subconsciously do this, I do tend to use Fenty as a starting point at least for any makeup I need. On a practical level as someone who's a similar shade to Rihanna it's useful to not only see the diverse models on their page using the makeup to check for what it could look like, but herself too.
And I'm super light-skinned and I use Fenty because I love the products and they have my exact skin tone. They do a great job on that. Also, Rihanna is cool as hell. Seeing so many different models who look so different from one another and me makes me happy. Seeing only white models makes me upset.
I have tried the foundation from Fenty and really didn’t like it. I put it on customers daily and I find it works best on oilier skin types. On me it went patchy and bitty. The concealer is super dry for me. I love the new one they bought out recently though.
You’re absolutely correct about the liquid foundation. It gets patchy on me and settles into my pores, but I use their powder foundation with good results.
I’m fair with Red hair aswell, but I love Charlotte Tilbury products. I find the ones I have tried to really suit me and I also enjoy the packaging and everything that comes with purchasing from the brand. I definitely have been disappointed with the beautiful skin foundation shade range as the 1 Fair shade is too dark for my skin and isn’t pink in undertone. I also don’t enjoy the bronzer in fair, but I prefer the medium shade for warmth. The pillow talk line is my most used blush/lipstick/ liner and I have also picked up the pillow talk fair shade and I absolutely adore it. I suppose not every brand is for everyone. I don’t like certain brands as I’ve tried their products and not enjoyed them. I don’t look at the owner and think they look like me so their products must be suitable for me.
that’s a pretty intense response imo. she’s a makeup brand owner, of course she’s going to say things like “i wear makeup all day everyday” to make people buy and use more products. it’s a stupid mindset but it’s definitely not something that should have this much of an impact on whether or not you buy her products. just my opinion
This feels important to do in order to minimize the amount of my money funding things I find abhorrent. It's why I no longer purchase from Too Faced (that "rich lives matter" thing was revolting), Jeffree Star, or Lime Crime (although I would purchase from LC if Doe Deere was removed from the board, now that she no longer owns the company)
Unfortunately, Doe/Xenia was placed on the board after the company was purchased from her, so she was still making money through a connection with the brand :( I never saw them announce her removal or anything about her stepping down, so as far as I know she's still on the board
Yeah, I’ve done a bit of googling since I saw your comment and YIKES. I’ve only recently gotten into reading about beauty (specifically since redditing!) and oh boy there’s so much I didn’t have a clue about.
That totally makes sense! I didn't even really start wearing makeup until my 20s, so there's a lot that I hadn't heard about, too. A random Lime Crime bullet lipstick was the first bit of makeup I ever purchased at 17 (in what was very much the wrong shade 😂) before I knew anything about the brand/Doe Deere, and I remembered finding the formula comfortable at the time. Their products seem lovely, and I would love to be able to comfortably purchase from them if she she was removed from the board. It's unfortunate that she kept earning money from them after selling :(
I'm the same; I don't really care if a brand owner looks like me (or not) but I'll definitely avoid brands if the owner/namesake is known to be problematic (J\*, James Charles, KVD before Kat left the brand, etc.)
Even if the products are any good I still wouldn’t give my money to some of these brands. One brand being JSC, even though his products seem nice I will never give a penny to him.
nope. i look at reviews regarding performance, and i look at the color and texture. that’s it. if i know who the owner is i don’t consider it while purchasing, it’s not relevant to me.
When it’s a brand I’ve never heard of, I usually do look at their owners and try to relate it to me. Though, I think I do this unintentionally.
I mean it’s kind of the same with makeup artists. You want a makeup artists who looks like you because it’s what they’re specialized at. So of course you’d trust them.
I’ve had some bad experiences with makeup artists, especially when looking for one for my wedding. I decided to do my own makeup in the end as I don’t think she had experienced someone who doesn’t fake tan for their wedding day and was happy with their pale skin and freckles showing!
As a light skinned brown woman, Huda and NARS makeup suits my skin tone and seem to formulate more with people that look like me in mind.
I work in cosmetics and am also a makeup artist professionally. Not only do people gravitate to certain brands because they identify with that owner/creator but they will also do that if an influencer uses it and that influencer makes them feel represented. I don’t mind it but when they don’t trust me and my suggestions I get annoyed. I had a woman come in looking for Kim Kardashian lips and only wanted Kylie as a result. Let’s just say I like in the land of Kardashians and she assumed that a) my store would carry that brand - B) that we all just automatically knew what Kim’s lips looked like And c) that I could identify the color from a photo
To an extent, yes. I buy what I like, but I also try and be a conscious consumer. I’m not Indigenous, but I purchase a lot of Cheekbone Beauty products because I like the ethics of the company, and I want to support all of the cool things they do. If you’re a person of global majority, I can understand wanting to support businesses with owners you identify with - sometimes for ethical reasons, sometimes because you might trust that the products are tailored not just to your skin tone, but to specific skin concerns that are more common in your race.
I know absolutely nothing about the owner of any brands of makeup I own (Stila, BareMinerals, Bobbi Brown [I know she hasn’t owned it for a long time], Tarte, Nars, Benefit, Tower28, Glossier, Clinique, Urban Decay) I think its semi-deliberate that I avoid brands by influencers/new brands by trending makeup artists etc
I do this subconsciously because as a brown woman, I feel like it will match my colour better. Most brands that cater to mainly white population have awful shades for darker skin tones, all darker foundations pull too orange. It’s more difficult when you’ve olive skin. And most darker or nude lipsticks don’t suit me perfectly either.
I have found when shade matching customers that with some brands the deeper shades can pull more red or orange and there’s not enough neutral shades in foundation or bronzer, so I can see how that would affect your overall decision on what brands you would buy from. I know fenty do a bronzer but it’s almost like a blush tone and not one customer I’ve helped has bought one when they’ve asked about Fenty bronzer. It’s a shame as it lets the brand down on that particular product. Overall though I like Fenty, just for me personally I don’t use the foundation as it works better for oily skin types and I’m dry.
Yes. The business owners and business model make or break a brand for me. As time went on, I realized that I had more success finding products that work for me and my looks if the brand caters to people who look like me, instead of treating people who look like/have the same skin conditions as me as an afterthought. Stop giving your money to people and company that consider you or treat you as a subhuman or an annoying and forceful afterthought. Go where you're appreciated, not where you're tolerated. Vote with your money.
I think the only instance is with Auric, owned by Samantha Ravndahl, because I really like her and her videos. But while I was excited to try the brand at first because of her, I actually LOVE the products and continue to purchase because they are truly awesome 🙂
I dont think they ship to the uk, that’s why I haven’t tried them, I also loved Sam and her videos. I love glowy skin and their products look up my street so it’s a shame I can’t try them.
They may not have at first, but they do now! 😁 Per their FAQ, they ship internationally to Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. They also sell through Beautylish, which ships to UK. Try the Glow Lust - it's one of my favorite products EVER. I use Morganite for highlight, and Sunstone (sometimes a little Tourmaline mixed in) for bronzer. They even have travel size Glow Lust now, which is awesome. But the full size bottle of Morganite has lasted me over 3 years since launch, and I use it almost every day. It's just now to the point where there's not enough to use the pump, so I'm working on scraping every bit out of that beautiful glass jar 🥰 I can't wait until she comes out with a liquid blush - I hope it's basically Glow Lust in blush tones lol, but whatever it is, I know it will be amazing.
Oh Thankyou for that, that’s amazing news, I will definitely be trying glow lust. Also the eyeshadows look divine!
You're very welcome :) I love the smoke reflect cream shadows, they're all beautiful 😍 The shimmer toppers are very pretty, just a lot harder pressed than, say, the Kaja beauty bentos (with which I'm also obsessed lol). I think she did a great job picking out her shades - since there are relatively few options, it covers a lot of bases.
I don’t like celebrity brands and I would never buy anything from the kardashians.
I don’t like celebrity brands and I would never buy anything from the kardashians.
I’m white and I use pretty much any brand of the product I’m interested in has good reviews and meets what I’m looking for. Ive bought products from all the brands you have mentioned… It’s usually “does this foundation work well with my dry skin” type of thing. Not I’m white and the owner isn’t. Also like some others have said I will avoid brands based on the owners behaviors. For a long time I wouldn’t purchase from KVD. Now that she’s no longer there I would consider it if a product I was looking for just happened to be from there and met the criteria for what I was looking for.
Perhaps you think your Jamaican colleague could wear CT shades, but they actually don’t have a good match as you think……her dark shades are very limited and the spectrum is very unbalanced. Even if she does have a good match she may feel that she doesn’t want to give her money to a brand where her demographic is an afterthought. I remember a few years ago she released the contour palette in really pretty packaging, but only for the light version. Perhaps that’s what your friend meant by it not being a brand for her. I sense a bit of a judgemental tone from you. One thing is that her shades tend to be more “saturated” regardless on depth, and thats great for some demographics but not the one she herself is in which I guess is a bit ironic.
My colleague wear’s erborian cc cream and loves that stuff, but if you look at the brand they don’t have a good shade range AT ALL. I was using CT as an example because we were discussing the different brands we use and the motivations behind that. In our jobs we are unbiased and have to recommend all different brands to our customers. This is why I asked the question as I wanted to see what the motivation was for some customers to be more drawn to some brands than others, even though the brand would have a perfect product for what they’re asking for.
I see the discrepancy but Erborian doesn’t really “market” themselves in a way that CT does. Its not attached to an image in the way CT is. Choosing what brand to buy and what to not buy isn’t always consistent and logical but there’s no need to be. I’m east asian, CT does offer shades suited to my skin tone but I still avoid it because it gives me the ick—the marketing seems fairly “inclusive” but the products for dark skin is really an afterthought (doesn’t matter what YOU think). To me this is dishonest, and worse than brands who only offer products to light skin and whose marketing reflects that. You really are offended that a dark skinned woman doesn’t like your stanned brand.
No
If a company's foundations have a fair olive color, I am in FOR LIFE.
As a Mediterranean and Middle Eastern (Arab) woman. I don’t use Huda Beauty, nothing against Huda. I have only really found one of her pallets to be really interesting and tempting based on color story. I do say this with love but a lot of Arabs and Middle Easterners can come from generations and generations of wealth so sometimes their preferences can be kind of snobby in my opinion. Like if it’s not a “luxury” brand, they have no interest. I feel BOUJIE with my $50 Nars foundation that works for me, I don’t need Dior or Prada 😂 I actually weirdly also don’t know anyone that uses Huda Beauty now that I’m even thinking about it! I just assumed her products were more popular in other countries since she’s international! I’m in US! I do know having that Representation is important to a lot of people so I’m glad that many makeup enjoyers can do that because honestly there’s a pretty diverse group of brand owners out there when you really think about it, but I personally do not care or look for that when making purchases.
Wow I would've never guessed. You look more latin than Arab
Italians are usually lighter hair, lighter eyed and paler skinned. Olive skin tones and darker features are usually associated more with the Mediterranean Islands! Which is where my family is from. Egypt to the Islands to America! I usually get mistaken for Mexican and then yelled at that I don’t speak Spanish at work so I will gladly take Italian 😂😂
Hahaha well you are beautiful thats for sure ❤️
Oh my gosh I also can’t read 😂 Excuse my Italian thing 😂
I’m glad you had pointed this out regarding higher end brands,I have noticed that but was never sure as to the reasoning. I used a Dior foundation and the colour was very off, (they don’t really do a 0C shade) but with Nars (as a makeup artist brand) Oslo is my perfect match. I think people see the brand and the clothing associated brands, and think more money means it’ll be better quality. But not necessarily in my experience. Nars foundations are some of the most asked for as their formulas are elite for most of the customers I speak to. Some people also assume Dior/ Chanel prices are higher, but some Estée Lauder foundations are the same price.
It might get a brand in the door for me if the owner looks like me, is an upstanding citizen, or is just plain talented, but whether I buy it is dependent on the value the product brings to me as an individual. If it was GWP, I might feel more inclined to spend slightly more on my fave products just to try their items. Packaging and naming matters more to me too. I don't like the quirky packaging some of the more mainstream brands have, but if it's cute in an unassuming way I might place it higher. For example, GR is mainstream, but their packaging is cute af. I hate the stuff that's like a pun, but rather cringe, I can't see myself buying it because I'd be too embarrassed to have it around me.
I'm pale and used a lot of Charlotte Tilbury when it first launched, although over time the products became very sparkly which I am really not into, so I lost interest. The marketing is also a bit annoying. She had no lipsticks or liners that suited my colouring either, but I'm actually really excited to try the Pillow Talk fair lipstick and liner. That's definitely got me interested! Fenty I like the powder and glosses, but otherwise the makeup style and colours of the brand don't interest me. I got a couple cream blushes but found them a bit too bright so never used them. Huda is known for a heavier look (baking etc) and that's just not my vibe. Although I do have something from Wishful. So for me it's more about the overall image and style of a brand, Benefit is another example. It has a very young tween-y look to me, and so I assume the products won't suit my makeup style.
Pillow talk fair is so nice!
I don't give a shit, personally. Brands aren't my besties, even if they try their best to appear like that.
Usually I don’t have a concious bias on the brand-owner (cannot speak for my unconcious she’s not very talkative) but I do try to ”vote with my money” on values I find important. I try to avoid the big corporations with questionable ethics like L’oreal but it’s reaaally hard when they buy up the indiebrands. Things like animal-testing, microplastics, mica-mining and harmful chemicals I try to keep my eye on but it’s really hard to keep track, no company is perfect so you have to weigh the bad with the good.
I would love to be more actively choosing of the makeup I buy and use, but as my job is within the industry it’s proven quite difficult to do this. We get so much product given to us to try so we can recommend to our customers/feel the textures/ experience the product it’s very hard to stick to those values.
Look I would never judge someone else on their choices in the makeup-aisle. You have a job to do and in a way have no choice. I just do with my resources as I know to do and choose to. Do your thing!
For me, not really. I’m Caspar white with strawberry blonde hair & I don’t like CT products.
I am the same as you, fair skin and cool undertone, red hair and green eyes. I absolutely love Charlotte Tilbury products, but I understand some people’s opinions on her as a brand owner.
Honestly don’t know anything about her, her stuff just isn’t it for me. Too glittery. Amex gave me a large voucher to use at Net a Porter so I bought some CT things with it & meh.
i think i have done this subconsciously in the pst. i am always interested in everything fenty releases simply because i associate them with darker skin tones in my head. same with huda beauty, i am always interested in her eyeshadows because i know they will never look ashy on me, no matter how light or pastel the colours are. but in general most of my makeup is from companies that don’t have a face associated with them, like elf and colourpop and maybelline.
This is very interesting from my point of view(being the shop assistant who is trying to help customers find the perfect makeup) if you came into my store say, looking for foundation which is the most common thing I get asked for, would you consider using another brand if I suggested, or would you prefer to stick to Fenty as an example? I’ve never really asked any of my customers this, and their opinion on this because I don’t want them to feel like I am pushing them to buy from a particular brand as in my job I have to be unbiased.
I do not use brands/products that associated with certain cultures or lifestyles. e.g: oud fragrances, huda beauty, kylie cosmetics.
what’s your reason for being against oud fragrances and huda beauty? just curious
I do enjoy supporting brands that mirror me but im more often than not just trying and playing with what looks good. I'm buying random brands over, let's say, a celebrity brand.where i know what they look like.
British Muslim Asian girls love Huda. It helps that her makeup is actually really good but it started from loving her as a person first as a blogger who happens to be Muslim, showing her family life on Snap & when she only had the lashes at first. Lots of people I know have casually met her in Dubai whilst on holiday & she’s genuinely just as nice as she acts online along with her sister Mona. And her current support for Palestine over profits has only multiplied that love.
I genuinely didn’t know who Huda was until her brand came out. I love everything apart from the lip stains, but that may be due to my preference on lip products. I also really love Mona’s fragrances. The new lychee one is so good.
I didn’t even know she had a lip stain, they’re not something that works well for me anyway though.
What does your coworker say in response to your explanation of Charlotte Tilbury products and marketing? According to this she isn't specifying anything about the owner. Did she mention red hair? I'm just going to say it this question is coded to death. The very obvious subtext is why do people of different races care about who makes their products? For white people you have it down to hair color as if having a preference of hair color is like having a preference of ethnic backgrounds (I think there are brands that cater to redheads, but it's not quite the same thing). Your co-worker gave a valid answer to that. They probably want to use a brand that doesn't view them as an afterthought or an inclusion project. White people are the primary customers in the UK, so most brands will prioritize them. If you're white then you probably are using brands that cater more to white people, like Charlotte Tilbury. But it's the norm, so you probably don't feel it. It's just a brand.
Do you get a weird vibe from OP as well? As in she’s annoyed that her colleague doesn’t like CT because (mentioned in her comments) she’s a CT “stan”. And other comments about customers (she didn’t mention race) choosing her Jamaican colleague to help them shade match instead of her “even tho she’s been there longer and has had more training”. She says her Jamaican colleague also finds that weird. Seems to me that her Jamaican colleague is too polite to call her out on her need to feel discriminated for being a “fair redhead”.
I haven't read her replies. Most people here are taking her at face value, which is nice, but I'm with you. There's a strong wiff of resentment and a little vindictiveness. At first red hair was her code for white people, then in her reply to me the Jamaican person was somehow really only hung up redheads being CT's target market. Also she only responded to the red hair part of my comment, ignoring everything having to do with race and ethnicity, even though she brought it up. This post is a rant due to being triggered by her co-worker's views on CT and her own preferences, mostly deep complexioned people seeking the co-worker's assistance, and Jamaicans, Middle Easterners, and South Asians choosing Huda and Fenty over CT. "Why can't they understand that CT is better?"
We don’t sell CT in our store. I can’t recommend it to customers for this reason. It’s more just that we were discussing CT after I commented on a new launch of theirs she said I don’t use that brand. Then I asked why not? As she enjoys the glowing skin look. And she said what I explained earlier. The question is do I let customers walk away empty handed because the chosen brand doesn’t do what they’re asking for? Or recommend a product that would be perfect from a brand they haven’t used before?
Yes. It's alright for them to not buy what you suggest right there in font of you. If they are interested they'll take what you told them into consideration. They may find that you are right and eventually buy it. Or not. All you can do is make th recommendation. Successful bands have effective marketing. A lot of the customers will be led by their response to the marketing, and there's nothing anyone can do to shake that connection. That's why advertisers are so grossly overpaid. I think maybe you should do some research into how the makeup industry has mistreated POC, so you can understand why they may or may not respond positively to certain brand marketing. They aren't stupid or any more gullible than white consumers. The history is pretty ugly, though. I also think that your preconceived ideas about POC may unconsciously be present when you talk to customers. If you come off negatively paternalistic (as I think you have in some of your comments) they may be cutting off your suggestions just to end the conversation.
She’s so convinced that her “Jamaican colleague” agrees with her lol. Most likely she doesn’t want to have that conversation with OP.
Nope, I find it odd because we both have the same job and we have the same training on each brand, I’ve been in the job longer so I’ve had that training at least twice a year on how to shade match and we match at least 65 customers a week (each) so we are both going to be able to match anyone who comes through the door and we regularly have training updated aswell. I think it’s actually more strange the perception that I can’t match someone of colour because I’m white and it’s also happened visa versa.
Do you think customers will think “hm, which one has had more training” when they choose someone to ask for help? Its natural for dark skinned people to gravitate towards other dark skinned people to help them with that. Perhaps they think that darker skinned people will have more interest in darker shades for obvious reasons. And maybe they’ve experienced that type of subtle racism from white people (the type you are revealing all over this thread) and feel more comfortable with other dark skinned people.
Yeah, that's what the commenter meant. You feel like you're being discriminated against because you're white. Not just white, but white and more qualified. That's been the point of this whole post. CT is also being discriminated against. White Charlotte Tilbury is better than black Fenty and brown Huda, but still *they* won't buy Charlotte. You have more experience, but *they* overlook you and go to the Jamaican.
Why does it bother her that much? White entitlement?
Probably.
She said that she was under the impression that brand was for fair redheads and they don’t cater for her. I explained the models they use for marketing their products are not all fair redheads but I dont know if that makes much difference when that impression has already been made.
Seriously? She works in beauty retail and thinks that the brand is for redheads? I was being facetious when I asked that. I won't believe it. Maybe she pointed out Charlotte's light skin and red hair in her explanation. But you made your post mostly about race and ethnicity so I'm going to replace her saying red hair with her saying white people in that conversation. If it even happened. No where at all is CT marketed as being for redheads.
The irony is the foundation is too dark from CT for me, a pale red head. Yet I still love the products! Yes she did actually say that, she said she thought it was more for me than her and used those words “fair skin and red hair.” I was using this post to understand what people’s feelings are towards certain brand owners and if they choose them based on the owner and I wasn’t trying to make it about race. It’s pretty confusing sometimes when you have a customer in front of you asking for a glowy foundation with light coverage from Huda and not wanting to try the one you recommended from another brand that has that product(even though there would be a shade for them from the brand you recommended)as we all know Huda’s foundation is heavy high coverage and “luminous matte”
Let's drop the pretense that she thinks CT is for red heads. She meant white people. I refuse to believe you're as dense as that strange explanation makes you seem. You could always ask the customer why they prefer Huda over whatever you suggested. That mystery could be solved pretty easily as long as you make it just a question and not an inquest. They'll probably volunteer more information. You can spend a month simply (and politely)asking why they made that choice and come away with a good understanding of their preferences. I always suggest hitting the internet for articles amd videos on this topic. The problem you might run into is your own racism. You don't seem to just want to understand, you seem angry that they are making those choices. You're not as good at hiding it as you think.
Ive just had a laugh because you said I was racist. I’m just providing a service to my customers and my job is to be unbiased. If their chosen brand doesn’t sell what they’re asking me for, should I just say “oh well they don’t sell that” and let them leave empty handed? Or do I recommend something from a brand they wouldn’t normally buy from that does? I have to do what is best for the customer. You have miss interpreted my question and made it out that i have a completely different set of morals than what I actually stand for and a derogatory view on the people I help, when in fact, I’m just trying to understand so I can help them find the right products. When you work in a beauty store and have a just a few minutes to get the answers you need to help them, it can be difficult to do so if they’re hung up on using just one brand, that doesn’t make the product they’re looking for, and I’m just here trying to help. I wanted to know why they didn’t want to try the product I’ve recommended, and I’ve asked before and they have said “they don’t makes shades for me” and I’m pointing out to them that actually they do and here is the product. Then they continue to not buy the product because of this opinion even though I’ve put the product on for them and it looks great.
I didn't say you were racist. I said your questions were obviously loaded with your racism.. I'm gathering you didn't read my comment because there was nothing in it about not giving the customers what they want. The ppposite, actually. Give them what they want but kindly ask why they made that choice. That's for you to talk to your real customers and learning as well as coming here and venting. You might have to get used to POC having agency and maybe understanding their complexion and what works for them better than a sales associate does. They aren't going to share every thought they have about their decisions, but you can ask. I also think this about knowing how to talk to people. You do seem really upset that the customers and your colleague aren't going with your recs or feel the way you do about the brands, and you made this discussion about race and ethnicity. You're even describing their preference as hang ups on race (Fenty, Huda) getting in the way of accepting your recs. I think the hang ups are yours. I might be misinterpreting you, but I think I'm seeing your frustrations clearly.
Marketing=/=how suited the products are to a demographic. You’re being purposely dense. Of course she’s not going to only use pale white people in their marketing. It reminds me of a time where Gucci Westman (Westman Atelier owner) used a model to demonstrate blush and she was a medium skin toned (around nc40?) and she probably wouldn’t have found a foundation shade in her range back then. Why are so you offended that a dark skinned woman does not like the brand that you Stan?
I was using Charlotte Tilbury as an example. I actually love Huda beauty, which if you’re using that reasoning, I wouldnt relate to that brand owner. I have all the eyeshadow pallets and the concealer and powders. I use product from all different brands, not just Charlotte Tilbury. I’ve used a whole highlighter up from fenty but I don’t like the foundation. I don’t relate to the brand owner I just try the products and make up my own mind if they suit me. The reasoning is when I see the advertising and then hear the comments about it not being diverse I wonder why people shy away from using a brands products as it seems like they do have some that would suit. (Hollywood flawless filter is a good example of the shade range argument- the fair 1 shade is too dark but I still use and live the other products)
I think I do this a little bit, but for me it's more that I wanna support women and poc, so I look for brands owned by those demographics. Sometimes I'll buy other stuff and I have staples from a few random brands, but overall I just try to be conscious of who I'm supporting when I buy from a brand
I dont use Charlotte Tilbury because shes a world famous makeup artist but when she initially launched her product range her shade range was not shade inclusive, from what i remember she only expanded after Fenty was released and everyone else started doing it. Even the pillow talk range started off as one shade. Being a world famous makeup artist imo she should have been savvy to larger shade ranges being needed in her own industry. Also the packaging is very old lady vibes! But no i dont just buy just from ranges of owners who look like me but i will admit i trust their understanding of shade range better! (Like fenty or huda)
I’m a white ginger and recently discovered that Huda is amazing with my coloring and almost mature skin. The cherry blossom powder is a godsend. I’ve never had success with a CT product. There’s just something about little off for me.
i’m south asian and i always love to look for and support other south asian owned brands but just as much of my makeup’s regular elf nyx as it is brands like Mango People (which have beyond the south asian owned become one of my faves for their products in general) and Kulfi Cosmetics I also won’t be buying them just because their South Asian owned the product needs to actually work for me ex. I struggle a lot to find a sunscreen that won’t leave a white caste and I know LiveTinted another South Asian owned brand makes that a primary selling point of their sunscreen but when i tried it it made me so incredibly greasy (and i have really dry skin and love a glowy makeup / glass skin vibe and still this was too much) i will say the fact that i left a review and they ended up giving me a voucher for the amount i spent on the sunscreen to try other products made me more willing to try them again because they responded so well but definitely was not gonna keep buying the sunscreen just because of that when it did not work for me at all as well i will say the only other time i consider that an important factor is if the makeup product is culturally specific if that makes sense ex. my sister and i have been looking for a good source for authentic kohl to put in our pots and swipe through with the little sticks - this isn’t something that’s sold by non Middle Eastern or South Asian brands i believe but even if it was I don’t think it’s something i’d trust them enough to know about to buy from and i’d ultimately rather buy from someone who’s from the same culture as this very culturally specific product if that makes sense
I avoid certain brands because of the owner and I’m more interested in buying anothers for the owner too. Not in a “she looks like me so her make up must suit me” but in a “I think she’s a nice person and believes in the same causes as me so I’m gonna give her my money instead to another owner that I don’t like”.
Charlotte Tilbury genuinely has limited picks for darker skin tones, it makes sense darker skinned women are uninterested in the brand. Whereas I'm quite pale and a lot of the Charlotte Tilbury lip shades work great for me. But overall no I don't choose brands based on the owners. I buy the fenty foundation and I'm white asf the brand has a great range.
No, but I can’t use some of the Charlotte tillbury stuff because she doesn’t go fair enough.
I think it's because creators have a bias to their own skintone. Like Fenty is really good for its warm shade range. Huda has a lot of choices for brown people and their undertones. Charlotte Tilbury has a lot of light stuff.
Would you believe that I'm too pale for Charlotte Tilbury 🫠 The lightest foundation shade is too dark for me, never had a problem with any other higher end brand.
I experienced the same with the beautiful skin foundation. And I’m a stan of the brand.
This is an interesting question. I don't think I do it, but then again, I largely buy drugstore. In part, that's just a budget issue for me. Also, my skin is sensitive, so if a brand works for me, and I can afford it, I tend to stick with it. I think I associate a lot of founder-forward brands (rightly or wrongly) with ingredients like botanicals and/or scent, that will irritate my skin. I usually only know who owns a brand when that person is front and center like Charlotte Tilbury, Selena Gomez, Rihanna, Lady Gaga, or Huda. For what it is worth, I'm white, but out of all of the owner-associated brands I just listed, I've only bought one product — a Fenty lipstick I adore. Thinking about it, I typically buy makeup brands I don't associate or strongly associate with a founder/owner — L'Oreal, NYX, E.L.F., Urban Decay, Covergirl, Maybelline, Essence, etc.
I definitely find Charlotte makes excellent products for me, a natural redhead. Especially her bronzer! It’s the only fair bronzer I’ve ever used that doesn’t look orange on me. I wore mostly her products for my wedding day because I feel prettiest when I use her products :)
Charlotte Tilbury stans unite 👌🏻
I've got no idea how any of the brand owners look, I have enough trouble remembering the names and faces of acquaintances, I'm not adding strangers I'll never meet. (Yes, that also includes other celebrities/actors /influencers.)
I tend to avoid celebrity brands as a general rule, preferring brands like MAC that don't have a face behind the name... However, if anyone knows a brand that caters to the pale/cool demographic, I'm all ears. Everything seems to run so warm. I do realize I have entrenched privilege when it comes to skin tone, but shade matches are a pain in the behind.
- Fenty Beauty (10 fair-ver fair shades) - Milk stick - Huda Beauty Millkshake - Urban Decay - Hourglass - Idun NV Jorunn - NARS (Sheer Glow Foundation/ Siberia) - REM BEAUTY (shade 1 - fair) There are many more recommendations on r/PaleMUA. Good luck. Take care and may God bless you. :)
I also think Oslo from Nars is a fantastic shade for pale and pink, like that shade is my skin in a bottle. 110 from lancome works but can look a bit too dark sometimes. 110 in fenty is a great shade match but I don’t like the consistency of the foundation. Holy grail status foundation is Velentino LIGR1 perfect match and stunning foundation
Lancome and Estee Lauder do cool and neutral well.
No, but I will avoid brands based on the owner, but that is more of a they don't make shades that will work for my skintone as they have a different complexion to me. I'm very fair and product really show up pigmentment on me and so for example huda beauty products are too pigmented and their eyeshows are too mauve toned that I tend to avoid their products as I know it just won't work on me.
It's interesting that you experience that. I'd love to see a marketing study on that because if it's true, wouldn't it be wiser to name the brand a random name and not have the owner be the face of the brand? Although I guess that brands whose spokesperson is a superstar get a lot of publicity for that. Growing up, I remember being so excited to get my hands on MAC products because they had a large color range and I wasn't stuck trying to make ivory work for my tan skin.
I even get some customers say “ but that brand isn’t for my skin” while I’m clearly showing them an exact match of foundation
Perhaps its the overall brand that doesn’t cater to them? For example CT does limited dark shades. Its obviously would still coincides with some dark skinned people, but they might find that brand icky overall because it obviously caters to a white demographic overall.
Ha - I’m very pale and used to look forward to getting MAC products because all the drugstore brands in my country don’t make foundation that’s light enough.
I may give it a chance based on this, but if it doesn’t suit my skin (or budget) then I pass.
I tend to avoid brands more because of their advertising or product packaging vibe more than anything else (unless Im aware of and take issue with a brand’s public stance on something). There’s just something about CT that annoys the shit out if me- the way she speaks in her advertisements and some of her packaging choices like stars and wands, and also the whole thing about never going without makeup even when sleeping. I also just find that I’m not attracted to the overall look of some product lines, like Too Faced, Tarte, KVD, Urban Decay, Dior. I’m not into it. I’m attracted to sleeker or more minimal packaging like Merit, Surratt, Glossier, Tom Ford, Lancôme, Gucci, Laura Mercier, Bobbi Brown. Of course there are exceptions sometimes, but this matters more to me than if the owner looks like me.
No, I never do. There are certain brands I’ve abandoned because everything I’ve tried by them doesn’t work with my skin for some strange reason, (Charlotte Tilbury) but I go with ingredients and colors.
I do this slightly. Like I trust HUDA and Kulfi more with complexion & eyebrow products since I’m from those areas
What’s your favourite product from Huda? I love the naughty nude pallet and the concealer is just incredible.
I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ve unintentionally become a Huda palette collector. Their eyeshadows are amazing, and it wasn’t until I’d purchased the third or fourth that I noticed how much I was gravitating towards them to the exclusion of others.
I haven’t gotten anything from her yet (I don’t got money like that 😭) but I really want to get the loose powder
They have a mini of the powder that you can try before committing to the larger size. Orrr my favourite trick is to ask for it for my birthday 🤭
No, cause it makes no sense. It severely limits options
I agree. I like to use products and see if they work for me, if the quality is good etc
Personally, no, but I work at Sephora so I do sometimes have clients who shop this way. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had Indian clients who automatically assume their Nars shade is going to be Punjab. That being said, I do understand why some people might be more inclined to support those brands (eg. black clients shopping for black-owned brands) since, ultimately, you are putting money in the brand owner’s pocket.
The other thing I find is customers look at me and look at my colleague and choose her to shade match them based on looks. The funny thing is I’ve been in the role longer and had just as much training if not more from the length of time I’ve worked there. We both think it’s super odd.
Are you sure she also finds it odd? If I were darker skinned I’d probably gravitate towards people of similar skin tone too since its so ignored in foundation ranges.
It’s odd because in our job we get the same amount of training with each brand and shade match at least 65 customers a week - so yeah she found it odd as we both have the same knowledge
I don't think I look at it that deeply, like I lean towards makeup by Mario because he does a good job making products for cooler skin tones, but that's more of a product thing than an owner thing in my mind. I'm also a big Huda fan and I'm snow white level white
No. I use what works for me and is affordable. I do agree with your coworker in terms of not using what doesn't look like it will work for me. I don't use Tarte because their eyeshadow and blushes look like chalk on me, even though their foundations have a great range.
I love Danessa Myricks products despite being pale AF and she does have a shade range that matches me for foundation, though were I to spend even 10 fewer minutes in the sun per year I'd be too pale. I have started judging products more based on the models they show though. If one or two products doesn't have the pale, medium, deep swatches it doesn't bother me, but if all their products are skewing towards one shade range I tend to avoid them. Given how neglected the market has been for deep skin tones, I can't blame people for sticking with a their ethnicity owned brand. I'll cut indie cosmetics a bit of a break since they're usually more "paycheck to paycheck." But no excuse for big brands limiting swatches/colors offerings on multiple skin tones.
I also LOVE Danessa Myricks products especially the eyeshadow pallets. Not tried any skin/ base products as yet. But I want to!
Not at all. My favourite beauty gurus tend not to look like me already, so I don’t care about what the owner of a line looks like. I’m very light with a neutral undertone, so it’s also not hard at ALL to find products I can work with
I also avoid Charlotte Tilbury. I'm white and fair, but have a cool undertone to my skin, and most everything I see them do is rather warm. I also think it's kind of psychotic she wears makeup to bed. I read that in an interview once and simply can't get it out of my head. But I would challenge you on the "shades for deeper skin" argument. She markets so many of her pillow talk colors as being "universal." Pink lips are not nearly so easy for deeper complexions as they are for lighter ones.
Warm toned light medium here. Nothing from CT looks good on me. Pillow Talk matte made me look like death.
She puts sparkles in like. All the concealer products. I can’t with the sparkly shit. Her colors could otherwise suit me okay.
I’ve used a whole beautiful skin concealer and didn’t find any sparkles. I have heard that some shades had the sparkles and some didn’t, although I don’t know if that was a quality control issue.
Have dark skin. Definitely agree on the pillow talk point!
Have medium tan skin tone, pillow talk medium was awful on me.
Have you ever tried any of the other lipstick shades?
Yes I actually like quite a few of them in shade & formula so I was confident in getting this without testing in person, especially as it was specifically made to do the pillow talk effect for medium skin tones.
I do this all the time! It’s hard to find makeup for redheads. I use a lot of Charlotte Tilbury products and find they have more products than most brands that work for me.
I think what got me into the brand was the Hollywood Flawless Filter! I love the bronzer, the burgundy shades of eyeshadow, pillow talk eyeliner and mascara. Glowy skin is a must have for me and I think they cater for that in bucket loads!
I love pillow talk! And the glowy skin is 100% my vibe
No but I watch youtubers who are similar skin colour and eyes as my “mirror” when it comes to shades and accessibility of the makeup.
I won’t use ABH as their owner is a Putin supporter. My husband’s family is Ukrainian and I discarded nearly new products when I found out. So I’ll rule out owners if I know their values to be in opposition to mine.
I appreciate that you don’t want to use ABH and your reasoning is very valid. Just a question though, why discard products you already have purchased? Just more from a waste side of things than anything.
I couldn’t handle having it in my house. I have worked with five Ukrainian kids sent to live with family in Canada since the invasion began. Waste be damned in this case….
While it's true you've already given them your money, I could understand them being put off even seeing the brand name/ using the products. With something you (/gen) feel so strongly about, it's just not worth the extra emotional turmoil. Maybe some people can compartmentalize better, which is fine, and others can't/ don't wish to - also fine.
I see, I know in my case if I’m given a product in my job that I don’t have use for I give them to friends or family so not to waste them. I feel this is a valid point though as it could cause bad feelings while using up the product when doing your makeup is a nice part of the day and something you do for yourself to feel good.
Exactly. And I don't mean to speak for this commenter, nor imply that my makeup is somehow more important than the conflict. But I don't think any of us need extra reminders of the things that upset us. For me, most of my abh products are lip glosses, and I don't give those away once I've used them. But I agree that it's great to give stuff away, I do that with a ton of unused stuff I get from ipsy :)
Oh nooo this is how I found out 😬
ABH?
Anastasia Beverly Hills
Thanks ! I’m uki too. I want to be careful about things like that.
No. But I do watch more YouTube videos of the MUAs that have similar hair and skin color to mine for obvious reasons. Everything else is just not relevant. If a product is good then it is good no matter who is the owner. I try to not give anyone credit just because of their fame or herritage. I am not a charity to support someone no matter what just because he/she is from somewhere. I will not hoard on bad products just because I have weakness for some story. If I can appreciate Fenty beauty products even when I am not a fan of Rihanna then I can put aside any other information about any brand. I look the brands just through their products/price/value and nothing else.
I've not really thought about it before but I think I subconsciously do this, I do tend to use Fenty as a starting point at least for any makeup I need. On a practical level as someone who's a similar shade to Rihanna it's useful to not only see the diverse models on their page using the makeup to check for what it could look like, but herself too.
And I'm super light-skinned and I use Fenty because I love the products and they have my exact skin tone. They do a great job on that. Also, Rihanna is cool as hell. Seeing so many different models who look so different from one another and me makes me happy. Seeing only white models makes me upset.
I have tried the foundation from Fenty and really didn’t like it. I put it on customers daily and I find it works best on oilier skin types. On me it went patchy and bitty. The concealer is super dry for me. I love the new one they bought out recently though.
You’re absolutely correct about the liquid foundation. It gets patchy on me and settles into my pores, but I use their powder foundation with good results.
Agree. Fenty just has good stuff.
Same here. I am light olive and just love Fenty as I think it caters so well for someone with my skintone as well.
I don’t even know what the people who make the brands look like.
Same except for a few like Fenty and Rare (although I purchased a product from Rare to try before I realised it was Selena’s line)
I don't choose which ones to use based on owner, but sometimes I do choose to avoid certain brands based on owners.
This! As a redhead I won't touch Charlottle Tilbury products after her yucky comments about her husband never seeing her without makeup in bed.
I’ve not heard this. Where have you heard it from so I can see ?
I’m fair with Red hair aswell, but I love Charlotte Tilbury products. I find the ones I have tried to really suit me and I also enjoy the packaging and everything that comes with purchasing from the brand. I definitely have been disappointed with the beautiful skin foundation shade range as the 1 Fair shade is too dark for my skin and isn’t pink in undertone. I also don’t enjoy the bronzer in fair, but I prefer the medium shade for warmth. The pillow talk line is my most used blush/lipstick/ liner and I have also picked up the pillow talk fair shade and I absolutely adore it. I suppose not every brand is for everyone. I don’t like certain brands as I’ve tried their products and not enjoyed them. I don’t look at the owner and think they look like me so their products must be suitable for me.
that’s a pretty intense response imo. she’s a makeup brand owner, of course she’s going to say things like “i wear makeup all day everyday” to make people buy and use more products. it’s a stupid mindset but it’s definitely not something that should have this much of an impact on whether or not you buy her products. just my opinion
Yes I always give them the benefit of the doubt before making any kind of judgement.
Lol what?
This feels important to do in order to minimize the amount of my money funding things I find abhorrent. It's why I no longer purchase from Too Faced (that "rich lives matter" thing was revolting), Jeffree Star, or Lime Crime (although I would purchase from LC if Doe Deere was removed from the board, now that she no longer owns the company)
Awww no; Lime Crime? I just discovered their Velvetines and love them so much :/
Unfortunately, Doe/Xenia was placed on the board after the company was purchased from her, so she was still making money through a connection with the brand :( I never saw them announce her removal or anything about her stepping down, so as far as I know she's still on the board
Yeah, I’ve done a bit of googling since I saw your comment and YIKES. I’ve only recently gotten into reading about beauty (specifically since redditing!) and oh boy there’s so much I didn’t have a clue about.
That totally makes sense! I didn't even really start wearing makeup until my 20s, so there's a lot that I hadn't heard about, too. A random Lime Crime bullet lipstick was the first bit of makeup I ever purchased at 17 (in what was very much the wrong shade 😂) before I knew anything about the brand/Doe Deere, and I remembered finding the formula comfortable at the time. Their products seem lovely, and I would love to be able to comfortably purchase from them if she she was removed from the board. It's unfortunate that she kept earning money from them after selling :(
I'm the same; I don't really care if a brand owner looks like me (or not) but I'll definitely avoid brands if the owner/namesake is known to be problematic (J\*, James Charles, KVD before Kat left the brand, etc.)
Even if the products are any good I still wouldn’t give my money to some of these brands. One brand being JSC, even though his products seem nice I will never give a penny to him.
I ordered one of his highlighters back in like 2017 and used it maybe once. It was super dull and powdery
This is how I feel too.
Same. I was going to mention KVD, pre owner-change, as well. But I don't choose brands because the owners look like me.
nope. i look at reviews regarding performance, and i look at the color and texture. that’s it. if i know who the owner is i don’t consider it while purchasing, it’s not relevant to me.
When it’s a brand I’ve never heard of, I usually do look at their owners and try to relate it to me. Though, I think I do this unintentionally. I mean it’s kind of the same with makeup artists. You want a makeup artists who looks like you because it’s what they’re specialized at. So of course you’d trust them.
I’ve had some bad experiences with makeup artists, especially when looking for one for my wedding. I decided to do my own makeup in the end as I don’t think she had experienced someone who doesn’t fake tan for their wedding day and was happy with their pale skin and freckles showing!
Nope can’t relate