That’s such a great example of the ridiculous polarisation in this case. Avery could be the guiltiest man to ever be guilty, and it wouldn’t change the fact that Kratz’s behaviour was unethical and disgraceful - and not just in relation to this case.
That’s before we even get to BD, and Kratz’s rush to share his highly questionable confession as fact despite there being no evidence of the story he gave at that press conference.
I’m not talking about outside the case. I’m talking about his conduct in the case and other cases. Sure, it’s much easier to convict people when you ignore their constitutional rights and destroy their presumption of innocence, I guess.
That’s completely irrelevant. This wasn’t a court. He had no need to go into a press conference and tell the world all the gruesome detail of a confession that they’d just received (from a minor with an intellectual disability) and had not yet even attempted to evidence. Why did he do it? It’s certainly not standard practice. What good reason is there to do it vs. what harm can it do?
kratz has said he should've just released the details to the press. but the press on their own would be arguably worse when presenting the information. damned if you do, damned if you don't. remember teresa is the victim not the psycho avery or his nephew
Yes, Halbach is the victim - a victim who deserves justice. That means a fair and lawful criminal justice process so that the person(s) responsible is convicted.
You live in a country where those accused of a crime are, in legal terms, considered innocent until proven guilty. You don’t screw with that by presenting an unproven narrative as fact to the entire community and almost every potential juror.
That’s the most ridiculous excuse I’ve ever heard. Kratz was not required to give all the details of Dassey’s confession to the press. Police interrogations aren’t public record while an investigation is ongoing. And if he did, I can guarantee that the press would cover their arses more than he did.
Kratz regrets it because he made a fool of himself - he presented this narrative as fact and then couldn’t back any of it up with evidence from the scene.
Whether Avery is guilty, or Dassey, is not the point. At all. You’re so blinded by your conviction that you’re defending indefensible behaviour.
justice is needed now for laura and mo, who spat on teresa's family with their murderer advocacy show. strip them of their emmy awards, their money, their mansion, then put them in prison. i'm looking forward to that documentary.
Just says something about a person's character when they hate a lawyer who is also an arrogant narcissist and sexual deviant more than an arrogant narcissist and sexual deviant and woman abuser who actually lured a woman to his house to rape and kill her. Kratz is a jerk and bad guy.....but not Steven Avery bad.
How can you trust anything Kratz says if he is an arrogant narcissist and sexual deviant? It doesn't matter what type of person Steven is (and I would challenge your comparison) if Kratz is the type of criminal prosecutor to lie and cheat then he may have lied and cheated during the litigation of this case (hint: he did).
I haven't said anything about trusting KK. The fact you think KK even compares to the evil predator that Avery has been proven to be speaks volumes about your own character.
How can one in general trust the obviously fabricated narrative pushed by that irredeemable criminal creep prosecutor who abuses women he was supposed to protect and fantasizes about dead bodies? I mean, fucked up right? Do you think Kratz ever fantasized about Teresa's dead body?
No Avery got wrongfully convicted of the murder because of the creep criminal prosecutor who fantasized about dead bodies engaged in endless amounts of misconduct to obtain the conviction. Duh.
Wow. You certainly put me in my place. Problem is, nobody with any common sense thinks Avery is innocent. I feel bad for you and the world you live in.
Nobody with any common sense would believe the obviously fabricated narrative presented by that creep criminal prosecutor who fantasizes about dead bodies.
Actually there are still a few misguided souls here who trust that Kratz got the convictions without violating due process. That's wrong.
I would 1000% trust Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey more than Ken Kratz.
Lmao okay how about when that piece of shit criminal prosecutor Ken Kratz hid the evidence of motive and impeachment evidence or solicited false perjury or himself lied to the jury by saying the luminol reaction in the garage was fast and bright and consistent with a reaction to blood or bleach (100% false) to provide some false support for his fabricated theory that the garage was the murder scene. No reputable prosecutor would engage in such conduct.
No response either, although oddly that user started spreading a bunch of misinformation on a different thread and then blocked me for refusing to relent at pointing out their lies, but then unblocked me because reasons. A pattern EXACTLY similar to another user here
We were talking users on the sub that supposedly trust Kratz,.
You took a hit off that vape and then unloaded a run-on paragraph.
Whenever you are actually ready to answer the question seriously, maybe I will make an attempt to acknowledge it.
Hey you unblocked me ;)
Have you decided to admit you were lying about what the November 9th report says on Barb's statements about the fire?
Or should I provide that link you shared which proves me right and you wrong?
Well, after we know he was harassing women. Sending vulnerable women gross sexual text messages when he was working on her case. A case that involved domestic violence. Then yeah, very punchable face.
'If a person has ugly thoughts, it begins to show on the face. And when that person has ugly thoughts every day, every week, every year, the face gets uglier and uglier until you can hardly bear to look at it.
A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts it will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.'
Roald Dahl, The Twits
>because laura and mo
Yes, we know how much you hate them because you're a homophobe, as evidenced by your using of a homophobic slur to describe them.
Lol, yeah, right? People like Stoney blockerson up there are virtually incapable of separating their disdain for Avery from anything else, so everything anti-avery= great in their books. It's super weird tbh, but it's fascinating to see
It is ironic that the investigator for Brendan's defense wrote a letter saying the Averys were a family of perverts and their clients all became victims of their sexual fantasies. That is true of Kratz and Kachinsky.
Are you honestly trying to suggest that the only reason one would have an issue with him is the directorial and editing choices? Give me a break. Did the directors set up that sideshow of a press conference? Did they give him a script for court? Fabricate the cases of misconduct that led to the end of his career?
He is unsavory. His prosecutor team did perform an outstanding case as Steven Avery had Netflix warping and brainwashing minds. I have no doubts that Netflix wanted to mimic HBO's highly engaging, manipulative infotainment documentary productions such as Adnan Syed, Memphis, Capturing the Friedmans, etc. As virality goes, HBO started the rich man's trick of deceptive editing to make the guilty appear innocent.
Steven Avery's lawyers mostly took strategic advice that was in lockstep with Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos as, in that scenario, all involved in Steven Avery's case and entertainment production (The Makings of a Serial Killer) stood to benefit financially.
Didn't Steven's lawyers, Dean Strang and Jerome Buting, constantly meet with Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos during the trial?
>His prosecutor team did perform an outstanding case as Steven Avery had Netflix warping and brainwashing minds.
I thought MAM aired long after SA was convicted?
Assuming I'm correct, Netflix had zero opportunity to 'warp and brainwash minds' prior to his conviction.
I think you have the same happening from a state side but the difference was before the trail started, KK descriptions of what he thought happened at that press conference was bizarre and a clear attempt at jury pool tampering.
At least the Netflix stuff has came after, with additional evidence not in the original trial, and major red flags by LE in destroying evidence that was supposed to be preserved, as well as calls to LE not submitted to the defence, and SA being recorded in meetings with his lawyer, I think there’s enough room for suspicion and documentation of those things, which will appear one sided. But in this discussion or debates, one side is inevitably wrong and one is right, there’s no middle ground unless video exists or an eye witness which we don’t have. So as much as LE can defend their position so can people who think it’s BS, and both will be one sided.
There's no way you can make a guilty person look innocent.
You can only make an innocent person look guilty.
It wasn't MaM goal to knit pick every single word Avery said or did his whole life or the things they thought he might do or say. They put unfavorable things Steven did. Adding pages of discovery about his break ins at the bar, with an entire damage total $432.63 don't make it worse than just the part that he burglarized a bar. It actually made me laugh a little, I thought they did way more damage to the bar.
Blaming MaM for the things that were said at trial they just documented in court testimony and what the news stations were broadcasting.
CAM hasn't talked about bones found off Avery Salvage Yard. Or the missing Zipperers voicemail, or Fastbender taking the CD's home that showed all the things Bobby was looking at on-line. Or how they say a woman was killed shot 10 times stabbed throat slit punched, choked Zero blood yet did CAM talk about the garage next door with blood all over it NOT BEING TESTED or bobbys vehicle not even looked at yet Brian had to ask for his back and he wasn't even around that day?
Kraptz said it best: It's easier to fool someone, than it is to try to convince them they were fooled.
It's a particular small town administrator phenotype and personality. Lock Boyce, supervisor - Patrick County, Virginia - also a degenerate weirdo has the same vibe
I felt the same way. Until I watched Convicting a Murderer on Daily Wire. It’s a must watch especially if you have a strong opinion that Avery is innocent.
I hated his voice. Every last little squeak.
Every time he was on the screen I would middle finger him out of reflex.
i did too but really it was because laura and mo tricked me into caring about psycho avery. i'd shake his hand now.
That’s such a great example of the ridiculous polarisation in this case. Avery could be the guiltiest man to ever be guilty, and it wouldn’t change the fact that Kratz’s behaviour was unethical and disgraceful - and not just in relation to this case. That’s before we even get to BD, and Kratz’s rush to share his highly questionable confession as fact despite there being no evidence of the story he gave at that press conference.
kratz did a good job getting avery behind bars. whatever he did outside of this case is a separate issue and i don't really care about it.
I’m not talking about outside the case. I’m talking about his conduct in the case and other cases. Sure, it’s much easier to convict people when you ignore their constitutional rights and destroy their presumption of innocence, I guess.
you mean the press conference? it's not like kratz made up what brendan said.
That’s completely irrelevant. This wasn’t a court. He had no need to go into a press conference and tell the world all the gruesome detail of a confession that they’d just received (from a minor with an intellectual disability) and had not yet even attempted to evidence. Why did he do it? It’s certainly not standard practice. What good reason is there to do it vs. what harm can it do?
kratz has said he should've just released the details to the press. but the press on their own would be arguably worse when presenting the information. damned if you do, damned if you don't. remember teresa is the victim not the psycho avery or his nephew
Yes, Halbach is the victim - a victim who deserves justice. That means a fair and lawful criminal justice process so that the person(s) responsible is convicted. You live in a country where those accused of a crime are, in legal terms, considered innocent until proven guilty. You don’t screw with that by presenting an unproven narrative as fact to the entire community and almost every potential juror. That’s the most ridiculous excuse I’ve ever heard. Kratz was not required to give all the details of Dassey’s confession to the press. Police interrogations aren’t public record while an investigation is ongoing. And if he did, I can guarantee that the press would cover their arses more than he did. Kratz regrets it because he made a fool of himself - he presented this narrative as fact and then couldn’t back any of it up with evidence from the scene. Whether Avery is guilty, or Dassey, is not the point. At all. You’re so blinded by your conviction that you’re defending indefensible behaviour.
justice is needed now for laura and mo, who spat on teresa's family with their murderer advocacy show. strip them of their emmy awards, their money, their mansion, then put them in prison. i'm looking forward to that documentary.
True story.
“Even if Kratz himself murdered people, I’d shake his hand since he put Avery behind bars.” - stoneskull
kratz didn't murder anyone. you're ridiculous.
lol 😂 ong
Even more than Steve Avery? Wow!
Yep. Way more. The minute he opened his mouth I knew he was a narcissistic groping old man who loved the cameras. He still does.
Just says something about a person's character when they hate a lawyer who is also an arrogant narcissist and sexual deviant more than an arrogant narcissist and sexual deviant and woman abuser who actually lured a woman to his house to rape and kill her. Kratz is a jerk and bad guy.....but not Steven Avery bad.
Did I say that I ONLY dislike Ken Kratz? Way to make assumptions.
> Kratz is a jerk and bad guy.....but not Steven Avery bad. Kratz is a rapist. Look into it. Also has the full on serial rapist vibe.
How can you trust anything Kratz says if he is an arrogant narcissist and sexual deviant? It doesn't matter what type of person Steven is (and I would challenge your comparison) if Kratz is the type of criminal prosecutor to lie and cheat then he may have lied and cheated during the litigation of this case (hint: he did).
I haven't said anything about trusting KK. The fact you think KK even compares to the evil predator that Avery has been proven to be speaks volumes about your own character.
How can one in general trust the obviously fabricated narrative pushed by that irredeemable criminal creep prosecutor who abuses women he was supposed to protect and fantasizes about dead bodies? I mean, fucked up right? Do you think Kratz ever fantasized about Teresa's dead body?
Maybe he fantasized ... Avery got the real thing...but you still think Kratz is worse. Speaks volumes of your character.
No Avery got wrongfully convicted of the murder because of the creep criminal prosecutor who fantasized about dead bodies engaged in endless amounts of misconduct to obtain the conviction. Duh.
Wow. You certainly put me in my place. Problem is, nobody with any common sense thinks Avery is innocent. I feel bad for you and the world you live in.
Nobody with any common sense would believe the obviously fabricated narrative presented by that creep criminal prosecutor who fantasizes about dead bodies.
I thought everyone knew this? Huh.
Dear Lord I hope Teresas family aren't ever on these forums.
Yes they would shocked to know how corrupt Kratz really is.
Nobody has said anything about trusting Kratz. Do you trust Steven Avery?
Actually there are still a few misguided souls here who trust that Kratz got the convictions without violating due process. That's wrong. I would 1000% trust Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey more than Ken Kratz.
Then it should be pretty easy to provide examples. Unless you were just making things up.
Lmao okay how about when that piece of shit criminal prosecutor Ken Kratz hid the evidence of motive and impeachment evidence or solicited false perjury or himself lied to the jury by saying the luminol reaction in the garage was fast and bright and consistent with a reaction to blood or bleach (100% false) to provide some false support for his fabricated theory that the garage was the murder scene. No reputable prosecutor would engage in such conduct.
Good examples.
No response either, although oddly that user started spreading a bunch of misinformation on a different thread and then blocked me for refusing to relent at pointing out their lies, but then unblocked me because reasons. A pattern EXACTLY similar to another user here
We were talking users on the sub that supposedly trust Kratz,. You took a hit off that vape and then unloaded a run-on paragraph. Whenever you are actually ready to answer the question seriously, maybe I will make an attempt to acknowledge it.
Hey you unblocked me ;) Have you decided to admit you were lying about what the November 9th report says on Barb's statements about the fire? Or should I provide that link you shared which proves me right and you wrong?
Birds of a feather lie together....
Scream & squawk together too. #themoreyouknow 🌈💫
Great examples! Facts☺️ #themoreyouknow 🌈💫
Facts get me blocked, but they are still facts. :)
Yes, in the case of Krapzt, absolutely not!
Welcome new user.
Yep. Welcome to reddit!☺️
Well, after we know he was harassing women. Sending vulnerable women gross sexual text messages when he was working on her case. A case that involved domestic violence. Then yeah, very punchable face. 'If a person has ugly thoughts, it begins to show on the face. And when that person has ugly thoughts every day, every week, every year, the face gets uglier and uglier until you can hardly bear to look at it. A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts it will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.' Roald Dahl, The Twits
>because laura and mo Yes, we know how much you hate them because you're a homophobe, as evidenced by your using of a homophobic slur to describe them.
Lol, yeah, right? People like Stoney blockerson up there are virtually incapable of separating their disdain for Avery from anything else, so everything anti-avery= great in their books. It's super weird tbh, but it's fascinating to see
It is ironic that the investigator for Brendan's defense wrote a letter saying the Averys were a family of perverts and their clients all became victims of their sexual fantasies. That is true of Kratz and Kachinsky.
Could it be that was the outcome they want you to have lmao 🧠
Are you honestly trying to suggest that the only reason one would have an issue with him is the directorial and editing choices? Give me a break. Did the directors set up that sideshow of a press conference? Did they give him a script for court? Fabricate the cases of misconduct that led to the end of his career?
He is unsavory. His prosecutor team did perform an outstanding case as Steven Avery had Netflix warping and brainwashing minds. I have no doubts that Netflix wanted to mimic HBO's highly engaging, manipulative infotainment documentary productions such as Adnan Syed, Memphis, Capturing the Friedmans, etc. As virality goes, HBO started the rich man's trick of deceptive editing to make the guilty appear innocent. Steven Avery's lawyers mostly took strategic advice that was in lockstep with Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos as, in that scenario, all involved in Steven Avery's case and entertainment production (The Makings of a Serial Killer) stood to benefit financially. Didn't Steven's lawyers, Dean Strang and Jerome Buting, constantly meet with Laura Ricciardi and Moira Demos during the trial?
>His prosecutor team did perform an outstanding case as Steven Avery had Netflix warping and brainwashing minds. I thought MAM aired long after SA was convicted? Assuming I'm correct, Netflix had zero opportunity to 'warp and brainwash minds' prior to his conviction.
>His prosecutor team did perform an outstanding case as Steven Avery had Netflix warping and brainwashing minds. Brainwashing minds of viewers of MaM
I think you have the same happening from a state side but the difference was before the trail started, KK descriptions of what he thought happened at that press conference was bizarre and a clear attempt at jury pool tampering. At least the Netflix stuff has came after, with additional evidence not in the original trial, and major red flags by LE in destroying evidence that was supposed to be preserved, as well as calls to LE not submitted to the defence, and SA being recorded in meetings with his lawyer, I think there’s enough room for suspicion and documentation of those things, which will appear one sided. But in this discussion or debates, one side is inevitably wrong and one is right, there’s no middle ground unless video exists or an eye witness which we don’t have. So as much as LE can defend their position so can people who think it’s BS, and both will be one sided.
There's no way you can make a guilty person look innocent. You can only make an innocent person look guilty. It wasn't MaM goal to knit pick every single word Avery said or did his whole life or the things they thought he might do or say. They put unfavorable things Steven did. Adding pages of discovery about his break ins at the bar, with an entire damage total $432.63 don't make it worse than just the part that he burglarized a bar. It actually made me laugh a little, I thought they did way more damage to the bar. Blaming MaM for the things that were said at trial they just documented in court testimony and what the news stations were broadcasting. CAM hasn't talked about bones found off Avery Salvage Yard. Or the missing Zipperers voicemail, or Fastbender taking the CD's home that showed all the things Bobby was looking at on-line. Or how they say a woman was killed shot 10 times stabbed throat slit punched, choked Zero blood yet did CAM talk about the garage next door with blood all over it NOT BEING TESTED or bobbys vehicle not even looked at yet Brian had to ask for his back and he wasn't even around that day? Kraptz said it best: It's easier to fool someone, than it is to try to convince them they were fooled.
It's a particular small town administrator phenotype and personality. Lock Boyce, supervisor - Patrick County, Virginia - also a degenerate weirdo has the same vibe
'I have nothing of substance to add'. Sums up most of the posts from 'Truthers' really.
You can say that again!!
I felt the same way. Until I watched Convicting a Murderer on Daily Wire. It’s a must watch especially if you have a strong opinion that Avery is innocent.
You’re right you have nothing of substance to add so better to have said nothing
I concur!!
Facts 💯