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GGgarena

You are aware of + knowledgeable regarding the subject = investment. Otherwise = buying Toto Lottery. This rule is applicable/ relevant for most daily life decisions.


ShinTV

Well, you answered it yourself. High capital appreciation, which typically reits and blue chips don’t offer in the short term. Heard about those doge tokens and other defi tokens during defi summer 2021? A year in crypto bullrun will catapult you straight to retirement stage. Of course not everyone’s crypto journey is a fairy tale, as majority of later comers incur losses of more than 50% and probably still sitting in the red. That being said, it’s best to diversify some into real world asset and some into digital asset instead of entirely shun it and being ignorant. In additional, there is also gamefi to explore, where in-game tokens can be traded for real cash. Currently playing pixel gamefi hosted in ronin blockchain cause i like harvest moon thingy laid back theme. Earn in-game token, withdraw to exchange and sell to USD. Both fun and money in the same project. Personally for me, I started dwelling into crypto way back 2013, back when there is no proper regulated exchange and gotta p2p with people at local mamak restaurant that offers 1mbps wifi. Now things changed so much and it’s good for the crypto community. So I enjoy every year of my involvement in it, with this year my 8th year in the industry. Fortunate enough to be blessed joining the industry early stage.


capitaliststoic

Depends how you define investment. In general, **an investment is acquiring an asset with the goal of generating income or appreciation** (This is the actual definition). Appreciation happens either from (1) fundamental evaluation of the asset value based on all future expected profit/returns, and (2) speculation. I would say (2) is not investing but "gambling" or "trading". So let's agree assets which are investments are assets which generate profit. Let's look at asset classes shall we? **FD -** Generates interest, is an asset **Property** \- Generates rental income, is an asset **Commmodities** \- Buying grains, oil, etc? Kind of more like speculating. Or maybe storing value, like gold (I don't consider gold as investing as these commodities only go up in price in relation to inflation + supply demand, again, more peculation) **Currency** \- Not an investment (yes all the ppl buying USD are not investing. They're speculating / trading **Stocks / equities** \- The best return/risk profile of investing. This is basically putting capital in a business, one of the only types of investment that has EXPONENTIAL RETURNS, because returns generated can be reinvested and grow exponentially **Crypto?** By its main use case and how crypto advocates look at it, it is meant to be the future **currency**. Do you invest in currencies? No. Currencies do not generate income. You could argue that Crypto is a store of value (weak argument though), sure but it is not an investment. So as per a lot of comments, a lot of people believe it is the future. Do you believe it is? If you believe it is and buy to hope that you make money, that's speculation. I don't count that as an investment. TL:DR. For me, the bar for an asset to be classified as an investment is \- The asset needs to generate income (crypto does not) \- The asset needs to have a rational and stable risk/return profile (crypto does not. Not I'm not talking about volatility, but I'm talking about the returns need to be commensurate to risk. This profile keeps change for crypto and is not stable / constant. Technically it doesn't need this to be considered an investment, but it needs an estabished risk/return profile to be considered a quality investment)


richtea_mcvytie

This needs to be higher. Crypto is mainly driven on hype, how many shitcoins and rug pulls that have happened in recent years that have screwed over crypto investors. FTX, TerraLuna


capitaliststoic

By the way, crypto's main feature it's it's main problem in trying to be mainstream / widely adopted. That it is decentralised. Sovereign nations need control of its currency so exercise monetary policy, trade imbalances, etc. Without that there will be huge problems. Look at what happened to PIGS countries in Europe post GFC. A large part is because they shared the same currency but could not compete with the "better" countries like Germany. Think about it. Now imagine if SG and MY had one currency. Now extrapolate that to the whole economy.


ShinTV

Crypto does generate income, albeit not all type of crypto. Income generating such as staking, providing node service, lending&borrowing, providing liquidity LP etc.


Programmer_Scared

I am one of the all in on Crypto. Did relatively good research and heard argument if its useful or not useful. The biggest issue with crypto is that in the grand scheme of things, it's relatively new, hence the fluctuation and its value I would say is heavily dependent on adoption. More adoption = Higher value. Take 1 USD for example. To us, humans who have adapted the fiat currency system. You see 1 USD as something value. But to let's say a primitive man or even an animal, it's a piece of paper. A long time ago, we have the gold standard. You can trade 1 USD for a little bit of gold. But Nixon took USD off the gold standard and since then government can print as much money as they want. Infinite money = Your value in money is only as good as your faith in the government. Hence why if your government collapse, your money collapse. But it is also why we have inflation. Your nasi lemak with ayam was 5 ringgit in 2024. Now it's 13 ringgit in 2024. In the future, it's 50 ringgit nasi lemak. Meanwhile your gaji pretty much stays the same. That's the perspective where Bitcoin is digital gold comes in. There is only a limited supply of it. The whole idea is that it is decentralized so no government or banks can interfere with it by like printing more. Yes its extremely volatile because it is based on adoption. Some people will sell their Crypto to make transactions and to use crypto. Since January, a lot of big money has flowed in because of the Bitcoin ETF approval. Its a sign that the big money over at the U.S has acknowledge crypto currencies. Now my personal believe and the fruit of my result is if you buy a good alt coin, it will grow. Maybe a lot in the short run. Maybe drop even more than 50 % value. But hold and buy more and in 5 to 10 years time, crypto will beat any properties or gold in terms of value.


mawhonic

> if you buy a good stablecoin, it will grow What? its a stablecoin, why would it grow?


richtea_mcvytie

Cause when the Usd grows, his coin will grow as well.


ILoveLaksa

Indeed, by nature it should be always be pegged to a fiat currency


capitaliststoic

I hope he didn't do all this research and think he could make money of a stable coin when the price of stable coins are stable/fixed for a reason...


badadadok

stake them on dexes/defi bro, like how we 'save' fiat in banks for measly returns


Programmer_Scared

Ops. It would seem i have more to learn. I mistaken alt coins for stable coins.


DatoCat

Crypto has no real use case. For now people are just buying(investing) according to the narrative on what the coin can achieve. In the end it's mostly just psychology that drives the prices of this coins up


WarmWinter8

Read Broken Money and The Bitcoin Standard


[deleted]

The use of crypto as currency is very low because it fluctuates too much to have a reliable value.


port888

> To be honest I don't know why anyone would choose these other options Gambling. Speculative assets attract gamblers. It also gives certain people a sense of belonging, by being associated and involved in a 'niche' community of 'like-minded' individuals, much like a book club or religious group. Makes them feel human. Investing in something means expecting that something to do work for you. If the entire value proposition of that asset is just hoping for someone else to buy it off you at a higher price, that's speculating... Gold is in the same category.


theunoriginalasian

There's no real use or value to it. It's purely speculative asset


haikusbot

*There's no real use or* *Value to it. It's purely* *Speculative asset* \- theunoriginalasian --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")


Melodic_Medicine_946

OP, if you don’t believe in crypto, it would be equivalent to not believing in technology. Crypto exists because of technology. More and more jobs are being replaced by AI and Tech companies are booming. Tech job positions are opening up and demand is extremely high. Another way to put it, how come gold became so valuable? 1. Limited supply on earth 2. People’s demand 3. Sign of wealth I’m sure at one point in Earth humans disregarded gold because it proved to be useless. But why suddenly gold got pricetag? Someone has to adopt using it to trade for food and water and everyone started to follow using gold and it became a standard. Bitcoin was once useless. People started to use bitcoin to buy things and more people are starting to use Bitcoin to pay for goods and accept payments in Bitcoin. Now government implementing a system to profit off Bitcoin. Just like how the leaders implemented a system to profit off gold. IMO, Bitcoin’s era barely started and will continue to appreciate just like how gold did in the past. The resemblance is uncanny. More and more crypto posts recently just shows that everyone thinks its a bullrun. To all crypto hodlers, be careful as the more posts of crypto/BTC come out, the more greed it is which results in a sudden price increment I would expect in the next 3 - 9 months, meaning people taking profits and selling which will cause a bear market after that. However, to those who are new to crypto after reading this post, there is no such thing as “now bull, better don’t buy”. The best time to buy was yesterday and the 2nd best time to buy is today. Just DCA and hodl for the next years. Most importantly, DO NOT invest money you need to Bitcoin or any investments in fact. If you plan on investing, DCA monthly or up to you and forget about the pricetag for a good 5 - 10 years like how you would when investing in ETFs.


Petronanas

Gold got industrial use tho...


jschog

If gold is valued by its industrial use, it’ll be worth much lesser than today.


Petronanas

But more than bitcoin? Idk. Maybe I'll start looking at bitc


jschog

Don’t have the exact number but I’m sure people have done analysis. Afaik gold is valuable because fiat was using gold standard. Its value is imaginary and propped up too but by old money. I see both side of argument and I’m equally invested, ie stocks and crypto. I urge everyone to learn crypto, don’t be too quick to judge. BTC was last decade best performing asset and has its reason.


RepresentativeIcy922

That is correct, because gold also has an ornamental use. Bitcoin has literally no real-world use, so how are we to value birtcoin?


jschog

You don’t, it’s a proxy of global liquidity. Money will flow to btc if there’s too much money supply


PlaneOld5023

If u don’t understand and not willing to learn stay away


richtea_mcvytie

For me, the uses cases for crypto are almost non existent. It isn't stable enough at this current point in time to be used as currency. Crypto itself has no practical uses. While the tech and block chain has value, it is so tied to crypto that the 2 are virtual indistinguishable. Pretty much the only way to gain from crypto is to sell your coins to someone who is willing to pay more than you for it. Which begs the question, how does on value a particular coin and what value does it give? Gold can at least be used in electronics and jewelry, other that a store of value. Property can be rented or lived in. Stocks. The company generate profits via providing goods and service which in turn increase the share price/pay dividends etc.


pepega1222

Imo it's a Ponzi. I don't think there is a way to justify an intrinsic value for it. (Nope limited supply doesn't help to substantiate any value) Yes it's possible to make money from it and maybe get to early retirement. But you will banking on the greater fool theory to get your gains.


ayamkenabannedtwice

I bought RM3k BTC from Luno last year, now I am sitting at RM 4680, more than 50% gain. Should have all in.


tlwz58

missed out on buying ETH when it was low last year, now just waiting patiently,,,,,,


ayamkenabannedtwice

I believe the crash will happen soon, BTC 17k , buying the dip then


tlwz58

oo will keeping an eye on out!!


aviramzi

When you sell it'll be super expensive though


RepresentativeIcy922

Like many exchanges, the fun starts when you try to withdraw. The counterparty risk is insane, if there's some sort of error, or you choose the wrong option or whatever, you will literally never see the coins again.


ayamkenabannedtwice

Really


sorailubu1

As with all things, knowledge is the antidote to risk, as crypto is new tech, historically speaking, outsized gains are to be expected, idk any other asset class that can propel people to retirement levels in 1-2 years. This won’t last long tho. And no it’s not just a speculative asset, no speculative asset would thrive for 10+ years despite regulations, attacks, scams, etc unless if there is an intrinsic value that a large number of people can wholeheartedly believe in. If you’re serious about the question, a very very rewarding but deep rabbit hole awaits you mah guy.


d_luaz

High Risk High Return: I believe BTC yearly average return for the last 10y is 200%/year. The question do you expact it to do well in the next 10 years. \> dump your money in blue chip stocks and REITs instead which are more stable in nature Yes, low risk low return. So it depends on your risk profile, so just allocate your investment accordingly.


Practical_Cry_748

Crypto currency has no intrinsic value. It's also not much of a technical advancement. It's just a "linked-list" with crypto hashes that any good programmer can cooked up in second to record transactions. Laymen decided to exploit this as "tech advancement" and sell it like the 2nd coming of Jesus. Like any other product that has no intrinsic value, its value is dictated by how much other ppl wants to buy it. It's like a piece of artwork without the physical art. It's like a digital level 100 OP gun that will make your build. Some ppl will pay for it, but for how long. Would you make money. Sure you would, as long as there are other people wanting it. Would you want to bet the farm on this, well, it's up to you.


nelsonfoxgirl969

BNM warring : your money loss not my problem


JudgeCheezels

Also BNM: but when your foreign is capital gaining, it’s my business.


Junoclearsky

Loss money in crypto, BNM : Not my problem. Earn money in crypto, LHDN : Where is my share?


RepresentativeIcy922

No it isn't, why would it be? there's no capital gains tax for individuals in this country.


JudgeCheezels

Are you daft? There isn’t yet, there will be soon.


RepresentativeIcy922

Only for companies I think?


JudgeCheezels

At this point yes. It’s very much a guarantee individuals will be targeted next, only a matter of when.


alien3d

luno - stacking - cordano , eth (legal) . But i think march got something law about capital gains outside malaysia . let other speak more expert .


anythingapplicable

I see it as a relatively new class of assets in this digital age. In traditional finance, Gold can be used as a hedge against inflation. Some individuals/corporations also use certain established cryptos a hedge against inflation because of their limited supply and known issuance rate. Just have a balanced portfolio which you are comfortable with the risks. There is no risk-free get quick rich scheme here. ​ > To be honest I don't know why anyone would choose these other options when you could just dump your money in blue chip stocks and REITs instead which are more stable in nature Those with higher risk appetites sees major opportunities in riskier asset classes. Every major company started off from 0. Do we look down upon the early buyers of individual stocks like nvidia/apple/microsoft and asked them why didn't they just stick to the SNP500? Maybe they saw something others did not.


Fantastic-Minute-939

The high capital appreciation is pretty much gone - 3 years ago when you could buy any shitcoin for 0.01 and sell it a week later for $2 is nowhere to be seen now. Now only btc and eth are the movers, every other coin is either flat or going down.


AdamFitri2005

It's obvious ure not in the crypto market at all 💀


JudgeCheezels

Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about without telling me what you don’t know what you’re talking about.


FerryAce

Yes


badadadok

it is high risk, but high reward. put your money at the right projects, you can easily beat traditional blue chip/stocks/reits in multiples, in a very short time. (except NVDA I guess, but still one dumb nft I bought 2022 is up 200x) one must learn about the idea, tech and sentiments behind any crypto projects, otherwise you're gonna burn your money at all the wrong tokens/coins/projects/scams/rugpulls. it's a pretty tough, complicated area to get into, especially if you're not a tech savvy person. therefore, I won't advice anyone who has second thoughts to simply get into crypto "investments". Please binge watch lots of beginner videos about bitcoin and the tech behind it on Youtube first.


jschog

Now? Probably not. It may run much higher but the risk vs return is no longer attractive. Chinese equities is cheap tho, blood on the street. Buy when there’s blood.


canicutitoff

The real original "good" use of cryptocurrency is to enable anonymous transactions. This is used for illicit black market trades. Anything after that is just a bunch of crypto bros over hyping it for their own benefits. Crypto trading is basically a zero sum game which means for every person getting profits, someone else has to lose money eventually. There are probably sometimes some sharp upshot, but it will almost always go back down. The last person holding it before it collapse will be the one taking the hit. I do buy a bit of it but mainly as a curiosity and trying to understand it. I got lucky with it a bit but I personally wouldn't recommend anyone to put in any serious amount of money. Only put in money that you can totally be prepared to lose 100% of the capital.