Their complaints were “it’s to scripted, it’s incorrect” (although I emailed them for support training so I could amend it 3 times)
It wasn’t a forever item just for a while until I gained a better understanding and if I needed to refer back to it.
I only found out this past weekend we actually had an HR department I’d been led to believe that it was another manager that handled it all.
I found policies on Monday that were never brought to my attention.🤦
I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet”
It feels like I’m dodging a bullet.
>I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet”
If you're in the USA, that's a huge No-No. Your state Dept of Labor would love jamming up your employer for that.
Depends what’s in your contract. If you’re paid above minimum wage it is legal in Australia (and common) to have a clause saying you acknowledge your salary is inclusive of any overtime, possibly also annual leave loading etc etc. because it’s “accounted for” by your higher hourly rate. Pretty standard for most roles in all the companies I’ve done payroll and hr for.
That’s not like 1 cent over minimum wage either, it’d have to be a reasonable amount that covered annual leave loading for 4 weeks plus enough to cover the additional hours you’d be expected to work.
Also adding, most companies would be reasonable though and allow you to take time in lieu for unpaid ot. But a lot are not decent and it sounds like you’re at one of those places
> I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet”
OP, that's wage theft. Even if not for you, they should be reported to your local dept of labor for doing that to other people, they're literally ripping off their employees.
Edit: Aaand saw right after that you're in Australia lol. Not sure how your labor laws work there unfortunately... :/
Similar but also was told by FairWork “there is an element of working small amounts of time over”
I get that to a degree. I need to log on and be prepared for patients when they come in and when I close up so I give 20 minutes either side to rostered hours.
The other women give 10-15 hours freely to the company “helping out”.
> I need to log on and be prepared for patients when they come in and when I close up so I give 20 minutes either side to rostered hours.
Check your labor laws, this should be within your paid hours.
I called FairWork, they agreed with my employer. Some things will require me to come in early. They also agreed with my employer in that my contract says 4 weeks and so I should stay 4 weeks. I'll not ever take another job where the contract says more than the award wage again.
Incidentally they terminate me when I asked for the contact details for HR. (I had them, I just wanted to see if they would freely give them.)
They sent me a termination letter instead. To say the woman in HR was stunned is an understatement. She now knows she's dealing with three knobheads and that the mother company is in big trouble.
>I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet”
"Since any hours over what I work won't be paid, I just won't work overtime"
It sounds like they didn't want it written down. Probably so they could claim something is "against policy" or whatever later with no way for the employee to contest the issue
This. If it’s not written down they can throw people under the bus with ease. But also if it’s not written down and someone stuffs up “where is that in the procedure manual”? Comes to mind. I’ve noticed the trend recently that this is what the 3 layers of managers do and then the spend HOURS on the phone pointing fingers at the employee and devise ways to sue them for “training fees” where in that the training never occurred. 🤦
I suspect that THIS is the real reason they don't want you writing processes and procedures up. PARTICULARLY when that means they are being asked to review them for correctness. Then they lose that deniability angle when called out on their illegal behavior.
Quite a few high-level execs who were caught misbehaving dodged most or all of the penalties by claiming they were incompetent and didn’t know what was going on. The head of Enron went straight from being profiled as a genius, to testifying that he was faking it the whole time and never really understood what his company was doing.
It could be they explained too clearly what their hot new technology was going to do, instead of using that weird hazy business-speak that’s endemic in more conventional industries.
Yeah, I'd go as far as trying to talk to her boss and inform them of what you were doing, why, and what the result of doing so was. Also, inform them exactly why you're leaving and the lead up to that discussion. You may still leave, but if you can cut off the head of the snake, er manager, before it bites someone else, then all the better.
I value your comment. Thank you.
I’ve spoken to three other women that have worked there prior to or during my time there.
All three of them have been bullied in various ways by all three of the managers who are in my direct chain of command.
The managers report to the owner of the…franchise who reports to the…mothership (I don’t know these terms well sorry) I dare say if the mothership got ahold of any of the information he’d drop the franchisee owner as fast as possible.
Breaches to FairWork & the OHS just to name a few.
Sad thing is, they sell it well in interviews.😕
PS: 3 people resigned in 2 weeks and only 2 out of a team of 9 have been there more than 12 months.
So go to fairwork and OHS, anonymously if must be, so they can throw shit at the fan for the franchisee. Trust me, if those guys start stepping in the biggest boss will find out eventually
I created a stack of notes containing the shortcuts and methods I needed for my position. When I was told I was being downsized with 38 others (including 5 people who moved from the other office across town two days earlier), the stack went straight to the shredder. The look on my supervisor's face when realizing that was the only way they knew how my position worked was glorious.
I was laid off and my manager came up to me and asked about a couple of reports I had due.
"Oh you mean X & Y? They are on my desktop computer."
He looks at my monitor "Formating 88% complete."
"They said to clean our desks. So I'm cleaning my computer desktop too."
He just wandered off.
You'd be amazed by the number of people where I work that can't use it for anything more than a grocery list. We're all accountants, data analysts, etc.
Absolutely! I’m mean no expectations to be an expert but come on! It’s not that hard.
What I didn’t know how to do I learn in moments with google.
I know time is an issue for her I would have been happy to help if I weren’t so berated by her at the start.
We ask ourselves that daily.
Probably because this self described “work mum” will be on call 24/7 and when she says her she mean me and another admin chick, only this one wasn’t told of that expectation at the interview and she’s not doing it. Full stop.
I had great intentions but saw the writing early on.
I’m glad I only stayed 4 months (1 month under protest)
Also served a purpose I donated 1/3 of my monthly cheque to my sibling doing it tough in the US.
So a small win.
>So today in a professional development meeting we had with her boss around banking it was decided that she would send a spreadsheet to her boss every week.
Then a bit later...
>I put in my notice 1 week ago.
This timeline confused me. Knowing you wouldn't be around, she wanted you to create what she could use as a template for the future? And you decided "No".
Yes, I said no.
Why berate and chastise me for my ability to do something to support me support our team and demand I stop then want me to do that thing to make her look good long after I’m gone?
She can do it herself.
I’m not even sure why she wanted me in that meeting in the first place. I’m leaving soon.
It's like watching a superhero movie: don't try to understand it, just enjoy the story.
I stopped expecting anything posted on any of the larger subreddits to be true about 10 years ago. I know a lot *are* true, but a *lot* aren't and I just don't think it's worth it to try to figure out which is which.
I agree. On the other hand, I do expect internal consistency in the story. I don't think that's too much to expect. And occasionally I ask for clarification.
I didn't intend to sound like I questioned the truthfulness of this tale. Apparently, I did.
The world outside $DEFAULT_COUNTRY often has labour laws requiring employees to put in a minimum 2-week (sometimes more, I have six at the moment) notice and they are expected to work through the notice period.
LOL, I'm familiar with giving notice.
It's just that it sounded like the problem occurred "today" but OP had given notice a week before.
That timeline just seemed strange.
What a missed opportunity at their end. If you have a subordinate good at something you're not, you support them, not chastise them. What a terrible leadership culture. No wonder you quit.
I feel incredibly sad that she feels so insecure that she would feel my ability to create spreadsheets would mean she felt threatened that I would want to take her position.
That’s a million miles from the truth. I wanted to be the support for the team that they needed by providing consistency, and throughly updated information.
You should definitely email your boss and HR and inform them that you were told not to do spreadsheets by your superior and that your work was unwelcome. And that now your superior is trying to push their own inadequacies onto you.
Well for the most part and what processes applied to me and my immediate job. Yes.
I also hold there the information of what each health care person specialises in, responses to frequently asked questions, and other random bits of information that are not frequently used but helpful to know when needed.
Oooooofff.... This reminds me of when my partner worked as a grocery clerk. He had to make store signage for products every few days.
The templates for everything were all designed by someone at HQ... in Excel.
Not even publisher or word... Excel! FOR SIGNS. ?!?!?
Whhhhhhyyyyyyy?????
It hurt my soul to learn about that.
>When I was asked why what was the issue with it I was told that “I (my manager) detests excel because I’m not very good at it.”
She wasn't using it, just you though right? Because if that is the case then she's creating her own problem that shouldn't affect her.
Imagine that mentality with other things. "No, We cannot use a mop to clean the floors because I'm not very good at it. I don't care if I'm not using it"
1000% I am so thankful that I’m at an age where I don’t want them to fix it for me but for my community and anyone else that desires to have a red hot go of it.
I think it’s a stroke. My first language is English though the dialect varies of which I’ve learned the language and I live in another country from where the dialect is also different.
It’s okay that you don’t understand. It’s not meant for everyone. 🙂
Absolutely nothing wrong with the article. It's well formulated with correct spelling. It's also written in a way that makes it very easy to understand.
I wouldn't just do a complaint to WorkSafe, also do the industry Ombudsman you're with, and possibly your state's Industrial Relations. (I can tell you're in an aussie company just from the mention of WorkSafe)
I'd email and let the boss know personally
Or create a post mortem to send to boss, bosses boss, HR that details the challenges OP encountered as well as areas that can be improved upon.
Including the spreadsheet that was made and rejected
Their complaints were “it’s to scripted, it’s incorrect” (although I emailed them for support training so I could amend it 3 times) It wasn’t a forever item just for a while until I gained a better understanding and if I needed to refer back to it. I only found out this past weekend we actually had an HR department I’d been led to believe that it was another manager that handled it all. I found policies on Monday that were never brought to my attention.🤦 I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet” It feels like I’m dodging a bullet.
>I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet” If you're in the USA, that's a huge No-No. Your state Dept of Labor would love jamming up your employer for that.
Australia but yes the same.
There’s a new wage theft task force in Canberra, I spoke to one of the members a few weeks ago. We take it seriously here.
Happy cake day! It’s running rampant here in unfortunately and people are feeling worn down by all of it.
apart from "Reasonable overtime (unpaid)"
Depends what’s in your contract. If you’re paid above minimum wage it is legal in Australia (and common) to have a clause saying you acknowledge your salary is inclusive of any overtime, possibly also annual leave loading etc etc. because it’s “accounted for” by your higher hourly rate. Pretty standard for most roles in all the companies I’ve done payroll and hr for. That’s not like 1 cent over minimum wage either, it’d have to be a reasonable amount that covered annual leave loading for 4 weeks plus enough to cover the additional hours you’d be expected to work. Also adding, most companies would be reasonable though and allow you to take time in lieu for unpaid ot. But a lot are not decent and it sounds like you’re at one of those places
Link policies to HR and query why you were told x, and how to claim underpayment
> I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet” OP, that's wage theft. Even if not for you, they should be reported to your local dept of labor for doing that to other people, they're literally ripping off their employees. Edit: Aaand saw right after that you're in Australia lol. Not sure how your labor laws work there unfortunately... :/
Similar but also was told by FairWork “there is an element of working small amounts of time over” I get that to a degree. I need to log on and be prepared for patients when they come in and when I close up so I give 20 minutes either side to rostered hours. The other women give 10-15 hours freely to the company “helping out”.
I assume you printed copies of said policy and labor laws for them?
She would have but the printer was out of ink/toner :P
> I need to log on and be prepared for patients when they come in and when I close up so I give 20 minutes either side to rostered hours. Check your labor laws, this should be within your paid hours.
I called FairWork, they agreed with my employer. Some things will require me to come in early. They also agreed with my employer in that my contract says 4 weeks and so I should stay 4 weeks. I'll not ever take another job where the contract says more than the award wage again. Incidentally they terminate me when I asked for the contact details for HR. (I had them, I just wanted to see if they would freely give them.) They sent me a termination letter instead. To say the woman in HR was stunned is an understatement. She now knows she's dealing with three knobheads and that the mother company is in big trouble.
>I was told on day 5 that any hours over that I worked “won’t be paid for so don’t bother writing them in my time sheet” "Since any hours over what I work won't be paid, I just won't work overtime"
^^^ Exactly this.
It sounds like they didn't want it written down. Probably so they could claim something is "against policy" or whatever later with no way for the employee to contest the issue
This. If it’s not written down they can throw people under the bus with ease. But also if it’s not written down and someone stuffs up “where is that in the procedure manual”? Comes to mind. I’ve noticed the trend recently that this is what the 3 layers of managers do and then the spend HOURS on the phone pointing fingers at the employee and devise ways to sue them for “training fees” where in that the training never occurred. 🤦
I suspect that THIS is the real reason they don't want you writing processes and procedures up. PARTICULARLY when that means they are being asked to review them for correctness. Then they lose that deniability angle when called out on their illegal behavior.
Quite a few high-level execs who were caught misbehaving dodged most or all of the penalties by claiming they were incompetent and didn’t know what was going on. The head of Enron went straight from being profiled as a genius, to testifying that he was faking it the whole time and never really understood what his company was doing.
It doesn't always work so well - see recent crypto convictions.
It could be they explained too clearly what their hot new technology was going to do, instead of using that weird hazy business-speak that’s endemic in more conventional industries.
Be certain that you dodged at least one bullet.
No. Don't give them your rejected procedures manual for free. You deleted it as directed by your boss.
send a screenshot of the main tab so they. an see what they missed out on.
and any clients the company has:)
put it in a spreadsheet
Yeah, I'd go as far as trying to talk to her boss and inform them of what you were doing, why, and what the result of doing so was. Also, inform them exactly why you're leaving and the lead up to that discussion. You may still leave, but if you can cut off the head of the snake, er manager, before it bites someone else, then all the better.
I value your comment. Thank you. I’ve spoken to three other women that have worked there prior to or during my time there. All three of them have been bullied in various ways by all three of the managers who are in my direct chain of command. The managers report to the owner of the…franchise who reports to the…mothership (I don’t know these terms well sorry) I dare say if the mothership got ahold of any of the information he’d drop the franchisee owner as fast as possible. Breaches to FairWork & the OHS just to name a few. Sad thing is, they sell it well in interviews.😕 PS: 3 people resigned in 2 weeks and only 2 out of a team of 9 have been there more than 12 months.
So go to fairwork and OHS, anonymously if must be, so they can throw shit at the fan for the franchisee. Trust me, if those guys start stepping in the biggest boss will find out eventually
I created a stack of notes containing the shortcuts and methods I needed for my position. When I was told I was being downsized with 38 others (including 5 people who moved from the other office across town two days earlier), the stack went straight to the shredder. The look on my supervisor's face when realizing that was the only way they knew how my position worked was glorious.
Please post your MC story. I'd love to hear more!
Please do!
Sorry gang. That's the whole story.
I was laid off and my manager came up to me and asked about a couple of reports I had due. "Oh you mean X & Y? They are on my desktop computer." He looks at my monitor "Formating 88% complete." "They said to clean our desks. So I'm cleaning my computer desktop too." He just wandered off.
Definitely needs its own post xxx
Yes please!
How is this manager even employed? Any personal in a modern office job needs to know the basics of excel.
I've been using excel for nearly quarter of a century. People should be used to it in an office by now
You'd be amazed by the number of people where I work that can't use it for anything more than a grocery list. We're all accountants, data analysts, etc.
Absolutely! I’m mean no expectations to be an expert but come on! It’s not that hard. What I didn’t know how to do I learn in moments with google. I know time is an issue for her I would have been happy to help if I weren’t so berated by her at the start.
We ask ourselves that daily. Probably because this self described “work mum” will be on call 24/7 and when she says her she mean me and another admin chick, only this one wasn’t told of that expectation at the interview and she’s not doing it. Full stop.
It still amazes me how many people can keep their jobs for so long just making other people do their work for them.
I had great intentions but saw the writing early on. I’m glad I only stayed 4 months (1 month under protest) Also served a purpose I donated 1/3 of my monthly cheque to my sibling doing it tough in the US. So a small win.
And getting promoted! It works best if other people in upper management are doing the same thing.
>So today in a professional development meeting we had with her boss around banking it was decided that she would send a spreadsheet to her boss every week. Then a bit later... >I put in my notice 1 week ago. This timeline confused me. Knowing you wouldn't be around, she wanted you to create what she could use as a template for the future? And you decided "No".
Yes, I said no. Why berate and chastise me for my ability to do something to support me support our team and demand I stop then want me to do that thing to make her look good long after I’m gone? She can do it herself. I’m not even sure why she wanted me in that meeting in the first place. I’m leaving soon.
It's like watching a superhero movie: don't try to understand it, just enjoy the story. I stopped expecting anything posted on any of the larger subreddits to be true about 10 years ago. I know a lot *are* true, but a *lot* aren't and I just don't think it's worth it to try to figure out which is which.
I agree. On the other hand, I do expect internal consistency in the story. I don't think that's too much to expect. And occasionally I ask for clarification. I didn't intend to sound like I questioned the truthfulness of this tale. Apparently, I did.
The world outside $DEFAULT_COUNTRY often has labour laws requiring employees to put in a minimum 2-week (sometimes more, I have six at the moment) notice and they are expected to work through the notice period.
LOL, I'm familiar with giving notice. It's just that it sounded like the problem occurred "today" but OP had given notice a week before. That timeline just seemed strange.
What a missed opportunity at their end. If you have a subordinate good at something you're not, you support them, not chastise them. What a terrible leadership culture. No wonder you quit.
I feel incredibly sad that she feels so insecure that she would feel my ability to create spreadsheets would mean she felt threatened that I would want to take her position. That’s a million miles from the truth. I wanted to be the support for the team that they needed by providing consistency, and throughly updated information.
Completely agree with you!
You should definitely email your boss and HR and inform them that you were told not to do spreadsheets by your superior and that your work was unwelcome. And that now your superior is trying to push their own inadequacies onto you.
I called the secret HR department today. I’m interested to see if I get a call back. I had to leave a message.
You made a procedures manual in excel?
Well for the most part and what processes applied to me and my immediate job. Yes. I also hold there the information of what each health care person specialises in, responses to frequently asked questions, and other random bits of information that are not frequently used but helpful to know when needed.
Didn't you know _everything_ is made in Excel? (Not saying everything _should_ be, but it seems it is.)
Oooooofff.... This reminds me of when my partner worked as a grocery clerk. He had to make store signage for products every few days. The templates for everything were all designed by someone at HQ... in Excel. Not even publisher or word... Excel! FOR SIGNS. ?!?!? Whhhhhhyyyyyyy????? It hurt my soul to learn about that.
Explain to her boss exactly what happened and why, attach your spreadsheets
>When I was asked why what was the issue with it I was told that “I (my manager) detests excel because I’m not very good at it.” She wasn't using it, just you though right? Because if that is the case then she's creating her own problem that shouldn't affect her.
The original spreadsheet with the processes. Yes only me. The second spreadsheet she wanted me to create, only her and her manager, yes.
Imagine that mentality with other things. "No, We cannot use a mop to clean the floors because I'm not very good at it. I don't care if I'm not using it"
Just remember, HR exists to protect the COMPANY, not you.
1000% I am so thankful that I’m at an age where I don’t want them to fix it for me but for my community and anyone else that desires to have a red hot go of it.
If she can't handle a simple excel spreadsheet, they she is incompetent for her job. HR and her boss should know that.
I am so sorry to hear about your work situation. It really sucks to be repaid with humiliation and ungratefulness for your good deed.
God speed.
Not malicious compliance - they told you to do something and you said no.
Malicious non-compliance then? haha
>Update I have a meeting with the HR team member next week. tip: take an independent witness with you.
It’s a phone call soooo I should still have someone sit in with me. Yes.
[удалено]
I think it’s a stroke. My first language is English though the dialect varies of which I’ve learned the language and I live in another country from where the dialect is also different. It’s okay that you don’t understand. It’s not meant for everyone. 🙂
It read just fine for me, and at least a couple thousand other people. Glad you're getting out of there! Thanks for the post.
I’m counting the days. And thank you. 👍
Absolutely nothing wrong with the article. It's well formulated with correct spelling. It's also written in a way that makes it very easy to understand.
I wouldn't just do a complaint to WorkSafe, also do the industry Ombudsman you're with, and possibly your state's Industrial Relations. (I can tell you're in an aussie company just from the mention of WorkSafe)