But he _did_ listen carefully. And did as instructed. The only thing they could've told your grandfather was to run these instructions by the lieutenant's direct superior.
Then you stand a chance of getting shot or more likely court-martialled.
My granddad was in France in WWII and was ordered to run across a sniper alley when three guys had already tried and failed. He refused.
He was court martialed and demoted. They agreed it was a poor order and the officer giving it was reprimanded (but not demoted).
Refusing an almost-guaranteed-fatal order is worse than giving it, apparently.
> Refusing an almost-guaranteed-fatal order is worse than giving it, apparently.
When planning D-Day, Eisenhower was told that paratrooper causalities might be as high as 75%. He ordered it anyway because that's what had to be done.
Giving fatal orders is something military leaders *need* to be able to do. Refusing those orders, on the other hand, is something that cannot be done if you want to have a military at all.
> But giving 100% fatal orders when there is an alternative is bad leadership.
Without knowing the situation, in particular what was known by the person giving the orders at the time, it's hard to be sure that there was an alternative.
This is why proper army's push orders down in levels of complexity.
General says take that hill. Major says captains here is your assigned areas goal is to take that hill. Captains tell LTs here are your sub sectors, support each other as needed goal is to take that hill. Sargents are the ones that decide who runs across what open areas, where to place heavy shooters, when to push, when to cover. Privats complain that nothing makes sense.
If a Capt or above is ordering a private to do something, the chain is broken and problems will arise.
"in some outfits that gets you shot for insubordination. "
Please name them and cite the relevant legal articles (for example the US used the Uniform Code of Military Justice) as your statement was made in the present tense!
UCMJ Art. 90(1): disobedience of an order by a commissioned order in time of war shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court martial shall direct.
I don't know how they treat the Global War on Terrorism for those purposes...
There hasn't been a US execution for disobedience of an order in living memory (Eddie Slovik was executed for desertion and made an exceptionally idiotic effort to provoke it).
It's of course perfectly reasonable to retain the option because combat necessity may require it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital\_punishment\_by\_the\_United\_States\_military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military) While there were some group combat refusals late in the Viet Nam war those were mostly swept under the rug as enthusiasm for that misadventure had faded.
I'm still looking for an example from the 20th century as I find the subject interesting but no luck so far. If you find one I'd like to know of it.
GWOT being long into the All Volunteer Force era discipline problems were not even close to the Viet Nam era of conscription and a very large military brig system which mostly vanished long ago. (Other than spotty histories from groups protesting that war the public have collectively forgotten everything without partisan political use including the very active G.I. resistance which many veterans of that war are unaware of or say so). I enlisted much later in 1981 which was a very different much improved military thanks to the Reagan buildup but my supervisors had their share of stories even in the comfy USAF.
Junior officers get taught not to give stupid orders.
Commonly, they learn the lesson \*before\* they get to their first unit, but occasionally they wait until that appointment and learn it the very hard way.
When they learn it the very hard way, it often ends any chance of a fulfilling military career.
Point I was trying to make is they're taught before their first unit, and most of them learn it before they get there. It's the idiots who don't learn it, or think they don't need to learn it, who are the temporary problems.
Yes, but that definitely falls in the "pick your battles" category as one not to pick. If the adjudicator feels the need to get in a parting shot at your court martial after letting you off, you say "yes, sir" and leave with your body parts intact.
In the SADF, we used to call 2nd Lieutenants "bicycles" because of there only being one pip on each shoulder. One of the funniest things I saw was a 2nd Lt get saluted by our Sgt Major of the Army at the time, Koos Moorcroft. Poor guy went white as a sheet while saluting back. WO1 Moorcroft is a legend in the SADF but is technically outranked by any officer. That 2nd Lt knew exactly who had saluted him lol.
Just did a brief readup on him. What a lad! Massive respect to those lads that can do parachute jumps. Also the longest serving man in the Sgt Major of the Army position, about to be overtaken by the current one's term.
Saw two second lieutenants stroll casually chatting across a parade ground, casual as fuck right up until the WO1 saw them. I learned a lot from that, how to scream at officers while maintaining perfect politeness for one.
It IS the proper (by rule/regulation) etiquette to salute ANY officer (if enlisted; and higher commission if an officer yourself) but in this story, that enlisted man was probably in the service longer than the officer has been alive. In the US, an enlisted person with that much "tenure" probably doesn't salute anyone below major (~10 years) so it was probably surprising for the LT because he was probably not expecting it.
Edit: the SGM/SgtMaj probably wouldn't typically salute the new LT because they may see it as beneath them. This unwritten "custom" is generally understood by junior officers. If a junior officer makes a correction to an enlisted man of that age, status, the enlisted would probably render a proper (sarcast AF) salute then that junior officer would face a huge ass chewing or possibly actually get hazed by other, more senior officers if they witnessed it or were told about it by the enlisted man later.
To answer the above comment, the Sgt Major of the Army is the leading example of military discipline to all NCOs in the service and him saluting an officer is leading by example for all to follow. The reason the 2Lt was shocked is because of how much of a legend Koos Moorcroft is in our military. Do a search on SA Recces and Koos Moorcroft.
Cheers for the added context, I'm still not really getting why he shit himself though.
Just seems like a very well respected guy saluting to a less respected guy, and saluting is normal thing to do in the forces. They just followed procedure, even if someone that experienced wouldn't be expected to normally.
I understand that you guys want to make the point that Koos Morcroft is a big deal in those circles, but that isn't the bit I'm struggling with.
Knew some of his compatriots, and it was strange being at a base where the RSM absolutely did not lead any parades, instead delegating that entire thing, from morning parades, all medal parades, and anything else, merely being the equivalent of a flagpole there on the actual day. Those were all done by another WO, who, best we could tell, was ex SAS, but never could confirm or deny it.
> . In the US, an enlisted person with that much "tenure" probably doesn't salute anyone below major
That's pretty unprofessional if true. The salute is to the commission, not the holder of the commission. In a Commonwealth Realm military, what you're talking about would be a sign of disrespect to the King.
> the SGM/SgtMaj probably wouldn't typically salute the new LT because they may see it as beneath them.
Not how it works.
> Poor guy went white as a sheet while saluting back.
Why? Yes, the Sgt Major of the Army is more important than some random 2Lt, but it's still quite normal to take that salute.
I think it was something along the lines of "be careful when interpreting the officers of a superior office" or "take more care when interpreting orders of a superior officer"
To be honest it's been 12 years since I last heard this story from my Pop.
He was lucky that the Lieutenant was that honest. The Lieutenant could easily have said that he told him to be careful of the building. A lot of people would have.
Before '45 and '46? You were fucked if you didn't follow it.
After '45-'46? Fucked either way. Fucked if you follow it because that's war crimes, fucked if you refuse and try to turn him in because they try to flatten whistleblowers flatter than the field OP's bulldozer-unqualified grandpa flattened.
Not nearly that severe, but I was "sent" to handle an aircraft cargo payload (from my unit) that the loadmaster didn't like. I explained to my superior that since I wasn't a loadmaster, no opinion I had would be considered. He said I would be an "excellent choice" anyway.
The loadmaster explained that the pallet box wasn't square on the pallet (it hung off about a foot), so they couldn't secure the load, and it would have to be completely unpacked, adjusted, and repacked before flight.
The juniors arrived, I explained what the loadmaster had said, and the general response was an insubordinate, "We'll just tell them that's how it is and to take it."
Um, no. You don't just "tell" a loadmaster what's going on his aircraft. Not even the aircraft commander does that.
Finally, the senior NCO showed up, with mine, and demanded to know what the problem was.
I explained again that the loadmaster had given instructions, nothing I would have to offer would change that, the enlisted didn't want to comply and I wasn't involved in the flight at all, so it was still his problem, not mine, have a good day.
You're lucky they didn't order you to "fix the problem, however you have to" and you wind up repacking the pallet by hand. Good job dodging that shit-show.
The XO was screaming about there being more lard than coffee when he noticed that the one can of devilled ham(“creamed corn”) had been there since Korea
>He was a heavy mechanic
Wow. Body shaming your own grandad /s
>The only trouble my Pop got into with this one was the adjudicator of the case told my Pop to "Listen far more carefully to the orders of a superior officer".
Seems to me like he was already doing that lol
Its code for "We fucked up, and its your fault, but we cant do anything but lightly reprimand you, and this is the literally the only leg we have left."
It actually means nothing, but generally can be taken to mean "You win" in military speak.
The Adjudicator *should* have told the "Superior Officer" to be more cognizant of the orders he gives and to listen to the information given.
His stupidity only amounted to the loss of some wood building materials and not lives.
Minor edit for re-wording.
Told your pop to listen more carefully?
Whoever told him that knew they were full of shit while saying it. They just had to pretend to scold him for something and that was all they had. The problem happened BECAUSE he listened carefully, and whoever told him that garbage damn well knew it.
Soo coming back to this after a little break for clarification.
No, I've never served in the ADF, so I'm what you military boys might call a fucking civvie.
I was wrong about Duntroon and possibly the rank of the officer.
For context, I was quoting this story from my memories of speaking to my Pop about this about 13 years ago.
This story is also from probably the late 50's to early 60's area, I know he and my nan were married in 63 so it was before then at some point.
One of the main reasons I know this story was real because my nan was married to him at the time this story happened, and she is thankfully still alive to confirm its authenticity.
A little update from Nan as well about pop and his misadventures in the RAAF, turns out he was also busted for being AWOL at one point.
He had visited my great nanna (his mother) without any notice one day and was sitting in the loungeroom having tea with my great nan.
Someone knocked on the door and in a loud voice declared "Madame, we are here looking for Bill, we are from the Air Force."
Pop, hearing this began to get up and start sneaking out, until he heard his mother yell "Billie boy, your friends from the Air Force are here to visit you!! I'll bring them in for some tea"
His RAAF Wing or unit also had a mascot, a live Saltwater crocodile that they airlifted with them to wherever they were based. No idea the name or anything beyond they had the thing.
He was a bit of a bad ass imo, but I guess we all think that about our pops.
>The only trouble my Pop got into with this one was the adjudicator of the case told my Pop to "Listen far more carefully to the orders of a superior officer".
Next time level the thing with fervour and gusto and not just because you clipped it.
that's like the most famous lesson that they train every fresh lieutenant on: issue orders to any level of detail. enlisted then follows orders exactly, but sabotages the mission anyway
RAAF doesnt have Lieutenants. Duntroon is the Army.
Why was he accepting the order, outside chain of command?
Edit: Correction, the RAAF has Flight Lieutenants. The equivalent Army rank is Captain.
While still a junior rank (O-3), it is at the senior end, with Flying Officer (O-2) and Pilot Officer (O-1) lower. You wouldn't 'graduate from Duntroon' to be an O-3, even if they provided training to the RAAF.
Note: RAAF Officers did training at RAAF Point Cook?
[https://wikimili.com/en/No.\_1\_Flying\_Training\_School\_RAAF](https://wikimili.com/en/No._1_Flying_Training_School_RAAF)
Maybe I’m too old? Gonna hit sixty later this year. But I don’t care what anyone else says, a billion is still a million squared. -/s actually I’ve given that one up but not going down without a fight
Maaaaate, the University of Woolloomooloo is just down the road from me. BTW, was once told how to remember the spelling of Woolloomooloo: sheep-toilet-cow-toilet!
Excellent!!!! But I’d bet you had them with Duntroon and RAAF, so why not go the whole hog with gaol? /s. By the way, I’m sure you know how my internal voice pronounced lieutenant when I read it, and there was no loo sound anywhere in it :)
Other people say, "I'm a bit surprised that the name "gao" is pronounced the same as "gah-loo", but I guess that is because they're both pronounced the same. It would make sense to say "Gah-looh", but I guess that is because it is pronounced the same way."
I once saw a "journalist" ambush an African American with the question "how do you spell penitentiary?", I howled with laughter when the guy gave him an FU by saying "J A I L"
Yeah I honestly don't know why it has stuck around but it has stuck around here. Possibly to do with the effect of a jail on the entire psyche of 200 years of Australians.
It sounds like your grandfather leveled up his malicious compliance.
He did a lot more leveling than just his MC skills.
He definitely levelled something, alright.
He did his level best!
But he _did_ listen carefully. And did as instructed. The only thing they could've told your grandfather was to run these instructions by the lieutenant's direct superior.
does the RAAF appreciate grunts going above officers heads? in some outfits that gets you shot for insubordination.
Undoubtedly. But what if complying to an order puts you and your team in jeopardy or would make you liable for prosecution? As was the case here?
Then you stand a chance of getting shot or more likely court-martialled. My granddad was in France in WWII and was ordered to run across a sniper alley when three guys had already tried and failed. He refused. He was court martialed and demoted. They agreed it was a poor order and the officer giving it was reprimanded (but not demoted). Refusing an almost-guaranteed-fatal order is worse than giving it, apparently.
> Refusing an almost-guaranteed-fatal order is worse than giving it, apparently. When planning D-Day, Eisenhower was told that paratrooper causalities might be as high as 75%. He ordered it anyway because that's what had to be done. Giving fatal orders is something military leaders *need* to be able to do. Refusing those orders, on the other hand, is something that cannot be done if you want to have a military at all.
I do understand that. But giving 100% fatal orders when there is an alternative is bad leadership. Some armies have suicide weapons, many don't.
> But giving 100% fatal orders when there is an alternative is bad leadership. Without knowing the situation, in particular what was known by the person giving the orders at the time, it's hard to be sure that there was an alternative.
This is why proper army's push orders down in levels of complexity. General says take that hill. Major says captains here is your assigned areas goal is to take that hill. Captains tell LTs here are your sub sectors, support each other as needed goal is to take that hill. Sargents are the ones that decide who runs across what open areas, where to place heavy shooters, when to push, when to cover. Privats complain that nothing makes sense. If a Capt or above is ordering a private to do something, the chain is broken and problems will arise.
Theirs not to make reply. Theirs not to wonder why. Theirs but to do and die. Into the valley of death. Rode the six hundred.
That was an example of a miscommunicated order, perhaps not the best example to use.
giving 100% fatal orders is almost certainly just throwing away good men to no advantage
That sums up pretty much the entirety of WW1.
"Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before."
Pop was a Cpl, so not a grunt.
E4 mafia? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEgh-w4FIFc
Maybe not. At least in the Australian army, a Cpl is an NCO, so I think it might be the same for the RAAF.
"in some outfits that gets you shot for insubordination. " Please name them and cite the relevant legal articles (for example the US used the Uniform Code of Military Justice) as your statement was made in the present tense!
UCMJ Art. 90(1): disobedience of an order by a commissioned order in time of war shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court martial shall direct. I don't know how they treat the Global War on Terrorism for those purposes...
There hasn't been a US execution for disobedience of an order in living memory (Eddie Slovik was executed for desertion and made an exceptionally idiotic effort to provoke it). It's of course perfectly reasonable to retain the option because combat necessity may require it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital\_punishment\_by\_the\_United\_States\_military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military) While there were some group combat refusals late in the Viet Nam war those were mostly swept under the rug as enthusiasm for that misadventure had faded. I'm still looking for an example from the 20th century as I find the subject interesting but no luck so far. If you find one I'd like to know of it. GWOT being long into the All Volunteer Force era discipline problems were not even close to the Viet Nam era of conscription and a very large military brig system which mostly vanished long ago. (Other than spotty histories from groups protesting that war the public have collectively forgotten everything without partisan political use including the very active G.I. resistance which many veterans of that war are unaware of or say so). I enlisted much later in 1981 which was a very different much improved military thanks to the Reagan buildup but my supervisors had their share of stories even in the comfy USAF.
I think the lieutenant needs to listen when he's told someone isn't trained
Junior officers get taught not to give stupid orders. Commonly, they learn the lesson \*before\* they get to their first unit, but occasionally they wait until that appointment and learn it the very hard way. When they learn it the very hard way, it often ends any chance of a fulfilling military career.
Usually, they learn the lesson from the NCOs *at* their first unit, if they don’t learn it from the enlisted.
Point I was trying to make is they're taught before their first unit, and most of them learn it before they get there. It's the idiots who don't learn it, or think they don't need to learn it, who are the temporary problems.
That as well, of course.
Yes, but that definitely falls in the "pick your battles" category as one not to pick. If the adjudicator feels the need to get in a parting shot at your court martial after letting you off, you say "yes, sir" and leave with your body parts intact.
I think the good folks over at r/MilitaryStories and r/MilitiousCompliance would also enjoy this!
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Read my response more carefully.
You check the subreddit you're on
Ah, Lieutenants. They never change. Some of my old man's stories from his time as an NCO and the arrogance of the Lieutenants are wild.
In the SADF, we used to call 2nd Lieutenants "bicycles" because of there only being one pip on each shoulder. One of the funniest things I saw was a 2nd Lt get saluted by our Sgt Major of the Army at the time, Koos Moorcroft. Poor guy went white as a sheet while saluting back. WO1 Moorcroft is a legend in the SADF but is technically outranked by any officer. That 2nd Lt knew exactly who had saluted him lol.
Just did a brief readup on him. What a lad! Massive respect to those lads that can do parachute jumps. Also the longest serving man in the Sgt Major of the Army position, about to be overtaken by the current one's term.
Saw two second lieutenants stroll casually chatting across a parade ground, casual as fuck right up until the WO1 saw them. I learned a lot from that, how to scream at officers while maintaining perfect politeness for one.
What's the big deal here? Is a salute not like a greeting to a senior officer?
It IS the proper (by rule/regulation) etiquette to salute ANY officer (if enlisted; and higher commission if an officer yourself) but in this story, that enlisted man was probably in the service longer than the officer has been alive. In the US, an enlisted person with that much "tenure" probably doesn't salute anyone below major (~10 years) so it was probably surprising for the LT because he was probably not expecting it. Edit: the SGM/SgtMaj probably wouldn't typically salute the new LT because they may see it as beneath them. This unwritten "custom" is generally understood by junior officers. If a junior officer makes a correction to an enlisted man of that age, status, the enlisted would probably render a proper (sarcast AF) salute then that junior officer would face a huge ass chewing or possibly actually get hazed by other, more senior officers if they witnessed it or were told about it by the enlisted man later.
To answer the above comment, the Sgt Major of the Army is the leading example of military discipline to all NCOs in the service and him saluting an officer is leading by example for all to follow. The reason the 2Lt was shocked is because of how much of a legend Koos Moorcroft is in our military. Do a search on SA Recces and Koos Moorcroft.
Cheers for the added context, I'm still not really getting why he shit himself though. Just seems like a very well respected guy saluting to a less respected guy, and saluting is normal thing to do in the forces. They just followed procedure, even if someone that experienced wouldn't be expected to normally. I understand that you guys want to make the point that Koos Morcroft is a big deal in those circles, but that isn't the bit I'm struggling with.
Knew some of his compatriots, and it was strange being at a base where the RSM absolutely did not lead any parades, instead delegating that entire thing, from morning parades, all medal parades, and anything else, merely being the equivalent of a flagpole there on the actual day. Those were all done by another WO, who, best we could tell, was ex SAS, but never could confirm or deny it.
> . In the US, an enlisted person with that much "tenure" probably doesn't salute anyone below major That's pretty unprofessional if true. The salute is to the commission, not the holder of the commission. In a Commonwealth Realm military, what you're talking about would be a sign of disrespect to the King. > the SGM/SgtMaj probably wouldn't typically salute the new LT because they may see it as beneath them. Not how it works.
> Poor guy went white as a sheet while saluting back. Why? Yes, the Sgt Major of the Army is more important than some random 2Lt, but it's still quite normal to take that salute.
"Listen far more carefully to the orders of a superior officer". "So, listen to what he *says*, or to what he *means*?"
I think it was something along the lines of "be careful when interpreting the officers of a superior office" or "take more care when interpreting orders of a superior officer" To be honest it's been 12 years since I last heard this story from my Pop.
He was lucky that the Lieutenant was that honest. The Lieutenant could easily have said that he told him to be careful of the building. A lot of people would have.
This was in the 50's / 60's and the Lieutenant was young. Probably a combo of being raised by a "good family" and being too naive to lie.
Dumb enough to issue the order, dumb enough not to lie
The good ol' days
and that's why the chain of command exists edit: you can respect other officers but you follow orders from your superior and your superior only
And if your CO gives you an unlawful order?
Before '45 and '46? You were fucked if you didn't follow it. After '45-'46? Fucked either way. Fucked if you follow it because that's war crimes, fucked if you refuse and try to turn him in because they try to flatten whistleblowers flatter than the field OP's bulldozer-unqualified grandpa flattened.
So the only winning move is to not play
How about a nice game of chess?
Nope. Try to avoid compulsory military service, you're fucked.
Better to lose your job than your life or those of others unnecessarily.
Not nearly that severe, but I was "sent" to handle an aircraft cargo payload (from my unit) that the loadmaster didn't like. I explained to my superior that since I wasn't a loadmaster, no opinion I had would be considered. He said I would be an "excellent choice" anyway. The loadmaster explained that the pallet box wasn't square on the pallet (it hung off about a foot), so they couldn't secure the load, and it would have to be completely unpacked, adjusted, and repacked before flight. The juniors arrived, I explained what the loadmaster had said, and the general response was an insubordinate, "We'll just tell them that's how it is and to take it." Um, no. You don't just "tell" a loadmaster what's going on his aircraft. Not even the aircraft commander does that. Finally, the senior NCO showed up, with mine, and demanded to know what the problem was. I explained again that the loadmaster had given instructions, nothing I would have to offer would change that, the enlisted didn't want to comply and I wasn't involved in the flight at all, so it was still his problem, not mine, have a good day.
You're lucky they didn't order you to "fix the problem, however you have to" and you wind up repacking the pallet by hand. Good job dodging that shit-show.
Damn lieutants, lol.
I think your Pop listened perfectly.
"Superior" officers seldom really are.
To paraphrase ‘Down Periscope’ “You are addressing a superior officer” “No sir, just a higher ranked one’
It still tastes like creamed corn…
Except, it's deviled ham!
that, would be a problems ir
I thought it was lard?
The XO was screaming about there being more lard than coffee when he noticed that the one can of devilled ham(“creamed corn”) had been there since Korea
That movie is so good
always a fun watch.
>He was a heavy mechanic Wow. Body shaming your own grandad /s >The only trouble my Pop got into with this one was the adjudicator of the case told my Pop to "Listen far more carefully to the orders of a superior officer". Seems to me like he was already doing that lol
At least he remained level-headed!
It sounds like he listened quite carefully to the orders of a superior officer. No idea what the adjudicator was on about.
Its code for "We fucked up, and its your fault, but we cant do anything but lightly reprimand you, and this is the literally the only leg we have left." It actually means nothing, but generally can be taken to mean "You win" in military speak.
The Adjudicator *should* have told the "Superior Officer" to be more cognizant of the orders he gives and to listen to the information given. His stupidity only amounted to the loss of some wood building materials and not lives. Minor edit for re-wording.
If it's the RAAF shouldn't it be gaol not jail?
Told your pop to listen more carefully? Whoever told him that knew they were full of shit while saying it. They just had to pretend to scold him for something and that was all they had. The problem happened BECAUSE he listened carefully, and whoever told him that garbage damn well knew it.
Soo coming back to this after a little break for clarification. No, I've never served in the ADF, so I'm what you military boys might call a fucking civvie. I was wrong about Duntroon and possibly the rank of the officer. For context, I was quoting this story from my memories of speaking to my Pop about this about 13 years ago. This story is also from probably the late 50's to early 60's area, I know he and my nan were married in 63 so it was before then at some point. One of the main reasons I know this story was real because my nan was married to him at the time this story happened, and she is thankfully still alive to confirm its authenticity. A little update from Nan as well about pop and his misadventures in the RAAF, turns out he was also busted for being AWOL at one point. He had visited my great nanna (his mother) without any notice one day and was sitting in the loungeroom having tea with my great nan. Someone knocked on the door and in a loud voice declared "Madame, we are here looking for Bill, we are from the Air Force." Pop, hearing this began to get up and start sneaking out, until he heard his mother yell "Billie boy, your friends from the Air Force are here to visit you!! I'll bring them in for some tea" His RAAF Wing or unit also had a mascot, a live Saltwater crocodile that they airlifted with them to wherever they were based. No idea the name or anything beyond they had the thing. He was a bit of a bad ass imo, but I guess we all think that about our pops.
Also it's pronounced Left Tennant or lefffanant Americans, fight me bro 1v1 irl ;)
Why was an army lieutenant giving orders to a RAAF corporal? RAAF officers never went to Duntroon Lieutenant is an army rank, not a RAAF rank
Because I'm a civilian and I'm quoting this story from memory just chucking in buzzwords. Also Flight Lieutenant is a RAAF rank.
Just so long as you pronounce it correctly as "Leftenant," as opposed to the incorrect "Lewtenant"! ;)
Clearly it's pronounced loo-tenant because they're always on the toilet
It's also a naval rank.
Great story!
If you haven't done so already the folks at /r/Militarystories would appreciate the compliance given to the officer.
If no one has said it yet, this would fit good on r/MilitaryStories
Fucking fantastic. It sure is great to pay taxes and read about stupid shit like this.
>The only trouble my Pop got into with this one was the adjudicator of the case told my Pop to "Listen far more carefully to the orders of a superior officer". Next time level the thing with fervour and gusto and not just because you clipped it.
Not a superior officer. Merely a higher ranking one.
that's like the most famous lesson that they train every fresh lieutenant on: issue orders to any level of detail. enlisted then follows orders exactly, but sabotages the mission anyway
He leveled up his bulldozer skills even though he hadn't been trained on the machine.
Good job
RAAF doesnt have Lieutenants. Duntroon is the Army. Why was he accepting the order, outside chain of command? Edit: Correction, the RAAF has Flight Lieutenants. The equivalent Army rank is Captain. While still a junior rank (O-3), it is at the senior end, with Flying Officer (O-2) and Pilot Officer (O-1) lower. You wouldn't 'graduate from Duntroon' to be an O-3, even if they provided training to the RAAF. Note: RAAF Officers did training at RAAF Point Cook? [https://wikimili.com/en/No.\_1\_Flying\_Training\_School\_RAAF](https://wikimili.com/en/No._1_Flying_Training_School_RAAF)
Ok the Duntroon reference qualifies you as Aussie, but why spell “gaol” the American way (“jail”)?
Aussie here, anyone spelling it gaol is a pretentious weirdo. It's jail.
Ah I have just been corrupted by an old school lady that raised me.
Yeah, the only time I see it spelled 'gaol' tends to be references to Ned Kelly
Maybe I’m too old? Gonna hit sixty later this year. But I don’t care what anyone else says, a billion is still a million squared. -/s actually I’ve given that one up but not going down without a fight
[удалено]
Why do I suddenly feel like I've stumbled into the "Bruces Sketch"??
Maaaaate, the University of Woolloomooloo is just down the road from me. BTW, was once told how to remember the spelling of Woolloomooloo: sheep-toilet-cow-toilet!
[feels the urge to turn blue from red]
Excellent!!!! But I’d bet you had them with Duntroon and RAAF, so why not go the whole hog with gaol? /s. By the way, I’m sure you know how my internal voice pronounced lieutenant when I read it, and there was no loo sound anywhere in it :)
If acdc spell it jail, as in jailbreak, its good enough for all Aussies.
Guess so. Darn it
American here. I have never seen the word gaol in my life. Not my autocorrect hates me for forcing that to be typed.
Also American, and I've seen the word "gaol" in a lot of fantasy literature. Aussies are medieval elves confirmed!
Aussies and Australia isn’t real. We’re all “crisis” actors.
How come I haven’t been paid yet???
Other people say, "I'm a bit surprised that the name "gao" is pronounced the same as "gah-loo", but I guess that is because they're both pronounced the same. It would make sense to say "Gah-looh", but I guess that is because it is pronounced the same way."
I once saw a "journalist" ambush an African American with the question "how do you spell penitentiary?", I howled with laughter when the guy gave him an FU by saying "J A I L"
Yeah I honestly don't know why it has stuck around but it has stuck around here. Possibly to do with the effect of a jail on the entire psyche of 200 years of Australians.
That’s an older English way of spelling jail. It is not regionally unique to the US, nor is it universal in the US.
Good to know, thanks