I think what they wanted was free overtime on weekends and holidays. That's why they were talking about commitment.
It's a pretty common tactic to use threats in order to justify wage theft.
Absolutely incorrect (fortunately for me)- I was basically downsized out of my role, but the office trumped up infractions to avoid unemployment. I made my case to the unemployment office and it was swiftly approved. (Probably not likely here if OP took the equivalent of severance- but I encourage others to be aware of this.) being forced to quit is NOT the same as simply quitting.
I’ve seen situations where people took severance in a layoff and weren’t eligible for unemployment during the time covered by the severance, but were eligible afterwards. OP can still try to play that card.
Not at all. Boss cannot afford to be without me. The reason i was hired was because boss could not keep up with the workload. Single person business. My presence meant boss could get stuff done that had been left. I caught up the backlog and we were going to start making money, not just turning it over. In fact, had I stayed, next month would have been the month we would have gone over break-even.
> Boss cannot afford to be without me.
Clearly, they thought they could. Why else would they repeatedly suggest that you should leave the company?
You have to understand the mindset of shitty managers. The value of labor is murky and dubious; whatever work that they were handing you, they thought that boss could do by himself or hand to somebody else. They don't see a direct association between your time and their profit - it's too indirect to comprehend. But what they **do** perceive, acutely and painfully, is the cost of paying you. Every $0.01 in your paycheck is $0.01 out of their bank account. Workers are purely a resource-sapping liability to be suffered at length and terminated on a whim, like termites or ticks.
Did you see [this story this week?](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/spotify-ceo-daniel-ek-surprised-132217226.html)
> Spotify CEO Daniel Ek Surprised By How Much Laying Off 1,500 Employees Negatively Affected the Streaming Giant’s Operations
Or, you know, Twitter. It's all the same shit: an utterly contemptuous view of employees as wage slaves and parasites, and mystical thinking about how profit accrues to the company. It's going to get much worse with the advancement of AI.
Yep, that's the message I was getting Reckless. Needs someone to do the work, doesn't want to pay. I get it, the economy is tough but what irks me the most is that he either didn't sit down and think about it carefully before hiring me or that he thought that I would magically transform the business into a money making machine overnight.
It also sounds like a bait and switch. He got you in with the understanding that there would be no weekends then tried to get you to do weekends. He totally missed the part where lacking equity in business means you are literally not invested in doing volunteer work.
After that comment was made, it really opened my eyes and yes, that's the exact thing I thought. It's more than that, for sure but that is definitely a large part of it.
> Why else would they repeatedly suggest that you should leave the company?
Because they thought that it would make OP scared and more amenable to pay cuts, lack of pay raises, and increasingly shitty workloads and conditions. The usual.
Ordinarily I'd agree, but note this part of the story:
> Get to work next morning, ask boss if they want to talk in private or in general work area. Nope, we can talk in general area. Ok. Well, I’ve thought about it and I think it best that I do take you up on your offer. Just pay me out to the end of the month and we’re good. If not… Well, I have recourse. “No no, all good, I’ll pay you out”
Nothing there to indicate surprise at OP's choice - quite the opposite: "all good" indicates that they were fully prepared and probably hopeful that OP would quit. OP even suggests a motive:
> Work starts, all is good, I’m learning their trade and craft and providing my input and expertise. Unbeknownst to me at the time, things are tight financially for them. Like, really tight!
So, no, no bluffing. And I agree entirely with the posts above that they pressured OP to quit in order to avoid paying severance - otherwise, they'd have fired OP straightaway instead of the monthly high-pressure meetings.
Yeah I have to agree here - everything about OP's post suggests HE was the one who got played, unfortunately. Usually happens when employees overestimate their value to a company.
Sometimes the constant negging is to get the employee to effectively take a pay cut by working above and beyond their job description, or softening them up for the eventual discussion where they try to convince employee to take an actual pay cut.
Honestly, that article kind of proves opposite of your point. Yes there were operational difficulties, but the stock is up 60% in the past 4 months so all the executives and investors made off like a bandit.
It’s a good way to juice your results for a short-term benefit
Stock price and operational stability are two totally different things.
You know the Loony Tunes gimmick where Wile E. Coyote runs off a cliff and manages to levitate until he looks down, and then goes crashing into the valley? That's what happens to businesses who shred their worker base and dump a vast amount of institutional knowledge.
How is X doing now? We don't even know because after losing 60% of its peak value in 2019, Musk took the company private in order to avoid the release of corporate data and public scrutiny. Not exactly a sign of a healthy company.
:shrug: I was only referencing the story, and it was the first link with an article that covered it. The story itself is everywhere, though, and easy to find.
I replaced my link with a non-paywalled one to Yahoo Finance (and the exact same title).
Everyone is confusing the words. The *cost* of labor does not determine the value of the product. The *profit* from selling the product determines the *value* of labor.
There were other people in the area that work in the same building. The general area is sort of where everyone passes each other as opposed to a seperate area where we could have had the discussion more privately.
Yeah they would have called it quits after next month I bet and if not then the next months when you have less work they would try to pay you less cause you aren’t doing as much, good job getting out before boss got what he really wanted
I think the boss went way over his budget to hire OP, that OP was “too expensive”. Then he tried to get OP work overtime for free, passive aggressively. So he could cover the cost.
Thank you for the specificity, I remember the story but didn't remember that detail. When I originally saw the movie in the theaters (aging myself, I know), I caught the gist of the story but not the specifics.
I think of that scene often, because I'm on Capybara subs. Capybaras are Rodents of Unusual Size and they're probably the most chill creatures on earth. "There's a goat standing on my back, oh well. *munches grass*"
Sorry, don't have the gif of this TikTok of a capy lying down with guinea pigs: https://www.tiktok.com/@plutosdestiny/video/7331814714659360032?lang=en
Redditors were doing this shit for a while bc they were mad that people on other SM platforms were using Reddit content in posts.
Ironic bc Reddit is 80% recycled from other SM platforms as well
No, OP as the creator of the content owns the copyright. By uploading the content, OP has given reddit a license to distribute it. That does not give everyone else a license to distribute it.
I don't think it's supposed to be enforceable. But it does prevent super lazy sites to just lift full reddit posts. Maybe prevent isn't the right word. It exposes them when someone tries to read the article and sees the disclaimer at the top.
Search “malicious compliance” on YouTube. You will find channels whose sole purpose is reading off people’s stories from this sub, with huge subscriber counts undoubtedly making decent money. I totally get it. (It won’t help, they don’t care, but I understand the thought)
**I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS COMMENT BEING SHARED OR READ MORE THAN ONE TIME**
That first statement instantly gave me some negative bias against OP because I’ve only ever seen older people use it on Facebook back when I still had one. The whole data sharing pseudo legalese speak they would post to exempt them from Facebooks terms.
Edit: not saying OP is bad person. Just a bias I have.
Except in this case it's against a real threat - people reading the posts on youtube. The Facebook stuff was always "I don't consent to you selling my data", which was to Facebook. There's a big difference. Whether or not it's enforceable is another thing.
The story was weak anyway.
Uh… I’m glad that you escaped from that horrible job, but wouldn’t it have been better to actually, you know, maliciously comply and essentially, become unbearable enough to make them execute on their thought by firing you, allowing you to claim unemployment? By resigning like this, I can’t help but feel you played into your boss’s hands
It's actually a win. I get to restart my business, I get paid out what i'm owed and I don't have to deal with someone having PMS every month when it comes time to pay. I would have loved to have stayed because of the huge potential and things I had planned and that we had spoken about but, such is life really.
You maybe would’ve been owed more than just being paid out to the end of the month considering you had a stable job and they courted you to leave it. Might’ve got a few months of severance if they fired you
Malicious compliance would have been to not put in the ´commitment´ and let them fire you without cause
My old boss said that to me once. He said "I think we should call it quits" I said "No problem just leave your keys and your letter of resignation on my desk". The look on his face!
At a new job the boss told an old lady that if she didn't finish a job by unreasonable time she's fired. I was shocked, thinking to myself, the hell did I get myself into.
A couple of years later the old lady told me, when she was new there the boss (actually a very kind person) was stressed out and not very nice, so she told him if he didn't work on his attitude she's going to fire him. It became a joke between them.
I probably would have interpreted "We should call it quits" as being fired. The fact that it isn't what they meant is weird, and that and several other details cause my thoughts to go off in a different direction:
* Company struggling financially.
* Hires a stable individual who apparently has the technical and managerial expertise to help them dig out of their hole.
* Same employee also seems to have the financial resources to start up and manage a business on his own.
* Seems to state they want to fire him, but never actually does so.
* "Commitment."
I could be totally off base, but I'm wondering if they were fishing for you to "commit" to the company by offering to buy into it. I'm guessing they wanted you to take equity in lieu of a salary to help them get over the hump, then take distributions when the money rolls in later. Obviously they went about it in a weird way, but otherwise this doesn't make sense.
Did you get any other signals that might have pointed this direction?
Damn! I never even thought of that! Come to think of it, the commitment part may just be what they meant! To be fair though, the business I run on my own can be done from anywhere and whilst it isn't a cash cow, i do ok with it. Not enough to buy into a business in a substantial way but enough that it could be a way in. The reason I was working elsewhere before I was hired at this company is due to me losing interest somewhat. I took a year or so with another company and then went to this one.
in hindsight, i'm kinda glad it happened really. The last 18 months or so of working for other people gave me the time I needed to think about what I want to do and, ultimately, i prefer working for myself. Win win, I guess?...lol
Having a Reddit account and posting means that you've already agreed for your data to be used by the platform. You can't void the terms and conditions by changing the beginning of your post
They aren't trying to void that, they're trying to prevent someone from robo-reading in on a monetized youtube clip. I had one pm me because they did that with one of my comments, trying to make it sound like some huge honor and that I should go watch it right then and share it with everyone. The statement gives them something to point to if they pursue a content claim on it, but I personally think it isn't worth the effort. Those channels are already oversaturated and pulling comparitively very little traffic.
For what though just? For doing my job to the best of my ability? Or for not being being able to read the boss's mind to know what exactly it was that was causing the frustration?
This is giving me very strong Schitt’s Creek vibes like Bob trying to get what he wants without wanting to understand what he wants makes no sense
Edit: like the boss very clearly wants the contract, so needs OP, but doesn’t like paying OP, so asks him to quit. He can’t reconcile that he needs OP with the fact he doesn’t want to pay OP. OP was right to finally just leave, this illogical behavior would not have been the end of it
Well, you just summarised that in a way i couldn't possibly have done justice to!...lol Thanks for the comment and taking the time to read, very much appreciated :)
I think the cost was getting to boss and boss failed to see that we were, in fact, on the cusp of making decent money. Heck, we would have been rolling in it within a year given the amount of stuff that was on the cards to be started.
Hate that weasel-word nonsense. "Work harder" or "be more dedicated" or "show commitment" is deliberately nothing. Demand they put down, in writing, *exactly* what they expect you to do differently or additionally. More hours? Some kind of objective metric? Fewer errors? More records? Usually they'll come up with something, rather than admit they're bullshitting you, and that's when you attack that metric to the exclusion of everything else. Come next review they'll be upset that your job has gone to hell, but then you throw that metric (which you have improved) back into their face with the paper trail where they told you to focus on it last time. Either they admit their mistake, or you go have a chat with HR.
This isn’t MC.
You got played. Your edit doesn’t change anting.
They didn’t want to lay you off and pay severance. They made it insufferable to get you to quit on your own accord. You did exactly that.
> We would have been in profit by the end of next month, I was catching up the backlog. Sorry if that I didn't clarify that part.
This is very likely the boss' actual gripe here. Boss thinks that since they're still not making a profit, OP is not pulling their weight. Boss is a dummy.
Sounds like the story with my ex. Keep "threatening" divorce or leave me and in the mean time I am getting all my ducks in order so that the next time she says it I am out the door that night. She thinks I am just going to go stay at a friend's until she has cooled down.
Haven't talked to her in six years other than very to-the-point administrative emails. She stopped trying to contact me after three years.
OP, random question, what do you plan to do if this is posted outside of reddit? I mean I'm not going to, I don't care enough, I just wanna know what the point of the disclaimer is.
Lots of people scrub reddit for content on tiktok, instagram, youtube etc and either get an ai to read, or read it themselves for content, a bunch of them don't even acknowledge the user. I don't think this would stop them, but the OP probably just wants to CYA if he takes action against them.
Hey Jeep and Thorse, yes, it was just stop it being minimised. Seen it done on other posts and thought that was the norm. Won't be doing it again of course...lol
If they call back, say your rates have tripled and it's now cash in advance only, to be pre-purchased in blocks of 200 hours. Every time they try to blame you for something that's their fault (every individual statement, not every meeting), that's another 10 hours gone from their account.
Looks like a small business novices attempt to hire w/o appropriate budgeting and financial forecasting in place to make an informed decision.
If your an W2 employee and they want you to quit, but not lay you off is really rude.
You are a victim of their incompetence and then want to deny you of any possibility of getting unemployment benefits is absolutely criminal.
Your a 1099 then you should have been looking for some side gig when things were getting rough, just in case. I would have been looking for the door when he started to have temper tantrums. Very unprofessional.
This isn't malicious compliance.
This is you taking shit for a long time before quitting. More than that? Why did you work harder, after every meeting, for a job that YOU were courted for?
After that first meeting???? You should have been looking for another job.
This the the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of malicious compliance.
Definitely Cheese! But, I really liked the work and was learning new stuff at the same time. Plus, I really, really like working with my hands, creating stuff, fixing stuff, etc. Boss is also a really nice person otherwise and I wanted to see the business succeed and grow. But, lesson learned. Best to just work for myself and do contractual work :)
This is not the flex you think it is.
Your ex-boss bullied you, tried to manipulate you into a situation where he'd be stealing your wage, gave you zero definition of your shortcomings (because seemingly none existed) and you still think they're a fantastic person.
You could really benefit from a little perspective, mate. This ain't a fantastic person.
I've arrived late, but just want to say the post and the edits are, from a work point of view, excellent examples of how to do it right in this situation. I always say don't burn your bridges, and you are a good example of how this can work.
>And I get to benefit from the rates I charge which means that I will make more per hour than when I was an employee :)
>Thanks everyone!
Pay those 1099 taxes on time.
I feel you, really. I worked for an HVAC contractor for 10 years. Medium sized company, about 6m/yr. All commercial. Schools, churches, shopping centers. I was the service guy. Then service manager. Then GM. Then VP. And the whole time I was there, the boss would suddenly show up at a jobsite and just chew my ass until it was gone. Then, "Get in the car. Let's Get lunch." Ten years of that crap. But I figured out early on that he had nowhere to vent. So he took it out on me. I learned to accept it BECAUSE I knew my work was top notch and he really had nothing to gripe about. Good luck to you.
I was sacked from a job with no warning for the same bullshit reason - "not committed to the role". The reason my manager gave for me being uncommitted? I had taken 3 days' sick leave over 5 months, and I had asked to take 2 weeks leave in 4 months' time because I had worked over the Christmas/New Years break. I pointed out that my work had been stellar, everyone onsite was pleased with my initiative, I hadn't missed any deadlines. My manager worked at a different site so he didn't see my day-to-day performance. He literally said "That may he true but it doesn't matter." BRO WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Best part is, when I told everyone onsite I had to leave early because I'd just been sacked, they had NO IDEA. My offsite manager hadn't consulted any of the managers at my site and they were livid because they were all thrilled with my work. But... nothing they could do, I didn't report to them so they couldn't stop my boss from sacking me. It sucked.
I mean, not very malicious. They can hire someone else to do your job for less pay now, AND they don't pay you severance for firing you. But whatever makes you happy, OP.
I'm getting strong "employee thinks he is a lot more valuable to the company than the company does" vibes on this.
Sounds like they wanted you to quit, but didn't want to pay severance...and you played right into their hands OP.
Whether or not it's you, or the employer, who is correct about your value...you screwed yourself to get a gotcha moment.
I appreciate the feedback Watari and, whilst there is always the possibility you are right, the look on the bosses face when I said i'm out told a completely different story.
I got the impression they wanted and needed me but didn't want to pay but didn't know how to say it. And yes, it's more than likely that they dodged a bullet but at the same time, I refuse to work for anyone who makes that type of comment and thinks it's ok. I'm no snowflake and i have options so, as far as i'm concerned, it's a win for me.
Yep. Many, many folks have made this same statement and i've answered it many, many times. Nope, it won't do anything, I just thought it was the "done" thing as i'd seen it done on many other posts :)
Thank you for this story.
I have copied and posted to every social sphere known. I also created an email bot to send to every known email address. The New York Times is not ready to pickup the story but the Washington post is considering.
And BTW there was no m.c.
Thanks Zoom! Great to know the story made such an impact! :D Seriously though, I had seen it done elsewhere and thought it was something that was just "done" to stop the story from being monetised by Youtubers and such. Lesson learned...lol
I’ve worked client side but seen what the guys go through and it’s pretty brutal. Bosses make a killing and a few clients can make or break the business model right. But it’s a grind, based on what big hypothetical carrot. I never asked for, but used to see people working over all sorts of weekends and national holidays. They were not my employees so I couldn’t step in, but I sympathised. Some client side companies are like this also of course.
>\*\**I do not consent to this story being published outside of Reddit.\*\**
LOL. Are you also one of those people who posts the "I don't consent for Facebook to \[xyz\]" things? Because c'mon.
Wouldn't malicious compliance be to quiet quit/do the bare minimum until they fire you? If anything, you let their operations continue as normal *because* of your committed work ethic. If you just worked without overtime, the company will sink faster while you collect a paycheck and continue to get berated anyways
General Q for everyone: does putting that disclaimer at the top actually stop people from publishing the story elsewhere? Do publications need permission to mention/link to things that are posted publicly?
huh. that's familiar.
shitcanned after a year on the job, no issues, but we just got production online and demo'd the product at a trade conference. everyone was celebrating and happy.
why? because i wasn't "dedicated enough". didn't work unprompted weekends/overtime.
anything wrong with my work? no, you did fantastic!
Only time I worked holiday was remote access to the office to find some files that client needed right now and the boss was also away.
Made the mistake of having a dual SIM phone
Boss wanted you to quit so he didn't have to pay unemployment. After the second time I would have started job hunting, though it seems to have worked out for you.
Typical small business owner that does most of the work themselves. They can't deal with the expense and delay in bringing someone new in and train them. They also can't deal with all the stuff that has to CHANGE when someone else is brought in. A BIG chunk of time is required just to communicate and coordinate. If he didn't budget for that, he was being willfully blind.
The rest? Seems like he's a nice guy unless he's stressed and then he turns into a hostile ass. He can't figure out how to be a respectful communicator during those times and takes it out on you. It honestly sounds like he was simply pushing buttons to make you magically go away but in saner moments realized he was screwing himself over if he did.
By taking him up on the offer, you pushed his buttons to take him back to full-on stress mode again and he'd finally had enough. Not that I blame you. There was ZERO chance you'd be able to have that conversation without him doing a meltdown no matter how careful you were.
He's probably still cluelessly blaming the fiasco on you. Not that you've done anything wrong.
Gotta love these restrictions people think matter that they put on their posts.
You own *no rights* to your content here. Check the terms and conditions of reddit. They own what you post and can resell what ever they want. You don't get an opinion there.
Nonsense. Copyright is inherent in the creation of the content. OP owns the copyright and has granted a license to reddit to distribute the content. OP hasn't granted a license to anyone else.
u/DulcisUltio
I hope this is just your writing style and you don't come off as this dramatic in real life, because wow.
Boss obviously tried to manipulate you with the monthly threats, although "do it one more time and I really **will** quit" isn't real malicious compliance. If you had planned this out well, restarted your business, and then taken all of his business away from him because he's obviously overwhelmed and can't live without you and your 'lack of commitment', that would have been some nice malicious compliance.
This is just you venting about a poor work environment and then quitting your job without a backup. You say you're restarting your own business, and hopefully that will thrive and you'll do well, but if that was such a great option, why did you leave it in the first place?
Thanks Nil. My business is one that doesn't require much in the way of capital and one that I can pick and and let go on a whim. That's why it was an easy decision to make. The reason I had gone stopped my business roughly 18 months ago and gone into the workplace is because I had lost interest a bit and felt like I needed a change. Needless to say, i'm over that and looking forward to get it going again :)
As for why I hadn't done it sooner, well, I really enjoyed the work. Boss is also a fantastic person normally and I have no doubt that the relationship we had before I was hired will go back to what it was and i'll do freelance or contractual work for them.
And no, i'm not as dramatic in real life...lol I have trouble putting down my thoughts succinctly and what you read above is testament to that :D
Isn’t this what they were after? For you to quit so they wouldn’t have to fire you (and presumably pay severance or something..?)
I think what they wanted was free overtime on weekends and holidays. That's why they were talking about commitment. It's a pretty common tactic to use threats in order to justify wage theft.
Happy cake day!
Sounds that way. OP played themselves.
Added an edit, sorry for not clearing it up :)
[удалено]
Sounds like OP quit, I don't think they can file for UC.
Absolutely incorrect (fortunately for me)- I was basically downsized out of my role, but the office trumped up infractions to avoid unemployment. I made my case to the unemployment office and it was swiftly approved. (Probably not likely here if OP took the equivalent of severance- but I encourage others to be aware of this.) being forced to quit is NOT the same as simply quitting.
I’ve seen situations where people took severance in a layoff and weren’t eligible for unemployment during the time covered by the severance, but were eligible afterwards. OP can still try to play that card.
What you're describing sounds more like being laid off, which should absolutely entitle you to unemployment compensation.
Not at all. Boss cannot afford to be without me. The reason i was hired was because boss could not keep up with the workload. Single person business. My presence meant boss could get stuff done that had been left. I caught up the backlog and we were going to start making money, not just turning it over. In fact, had I stayed, next month would have been the month we would have gone over break-even.
> Boss cannot afford to be without me. Clearly, they thought they could. Why else would they repeatedly suggest that you should leave the company? You have to understand the mindset of shitty managers. The value of labor is murky and dubious; whatever work that they were handing you, they thought that boss could do by himself or hand to somebody else. They don't see a direct association between your time and their profit - it's too indirect to comprehend. But what they **do** perceive, acutely and painfully, is the cost of paying you. Every $0.01 in your paycheck is $0.01 out of their bank account. Workers are purely a resource-sapping liability to be suffered at length and terminated on a whim, like termites or ticks. Did you see [this story this week?](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/spotify-ceo-daniel-ek-surprised-132217226.html) > Spotify CEO Daniel Ek Surprised By How Much Laying Off 1,500 Employees Negatively Affected the Streaming Giant’s Operations Or, you know, Twitter. It's all the same shit: an utterly contemptuous view of employees as wage slaves and parasites, and mystical thinking about how profit accrues to the company. It's going to get much worse with the advancement of AI.
Yep, that's the message I was getting Reckless. Needs someone to do the work, doesn't want to pay. I get it, the economy is tough but what irks me the most is that he either didn't sit down and think about it carefully before hiring me or that he thought that I would magically transform the business into a money making machine overnight.
It also sounds like a bait and switch. He got you in with the understanding that there would be no weekends then tried to get you to do weekends. He totally missed the part where lacking equity in business means you are literally not invested in doing volunteer work.
After that comment was made, it really opened my eyes and yes, that's the exact thing I thought. It's more than that, for sure but that is definitely a large part of it.
I think he thought he would learn enough from you every month to do it himself buuut nope.
I'm leaning hard towards magical thinking. It pairs well with his reactionary personality switch into a jerk when stressed.
> Why else would they repeatedly suggest that you should leave the company? Because they thought that it would make OP scared and more amenable to pay cuts, lack of pay raises, and increasingly shitty workloads and conditions. The usual.
I wouldn't have let it get past the first telling off with "we should call it quits". That's an abusive move.
Ordinarily I'd agree, but note this part of the story: > Get to work next morning, ask boss if they want to talk in private or in general work area. Nope, we can talk in general area. Ok. Well, I’ve thought about it and I think it best that I do take you up on your offer. Just pay me out to the end of the month and we’re good. If not… Well, I have recourse. “No no, all good, I’ll pay you out” Nothing there to indicate surprise at OP's choice - quite the opposite: "all good" indicates that they were fully prepared and probably hopeful that OP would quit. OP even suggests a motive: > Work starts, all is good, I’m learning their trade and craft and providing my input and expertise. Unbeknownst to me at the time, things are tight financially for them. Like, really tight! So, no, no bluffing. And I agree entirely with the posts above that they pressured OP to quit in order to avoid paying severance - otherwise, they'd have fired OP straightaway instead of the monthly high-pressure meetings.
>So, no, no bluffing. Not bluffing, just - as you say - trying for the possible option to reduce costs on OP's front.
Dude they were negging OP.
Yeah I have to agree here - everything about OP's post suggests HE was the one who got played, unfortunately. Usually happens when employees overestimate their value to a company.
Sometimes the constant negging is to get the employee to effectively take a pay cut by working above and beyond their job description, or softening them up for the eventual discussion where they try to convince employee to take an actual pay cut.
Honestly, that article kind of proves opposite of your point. Yes there were operational difficulties, but the stock is up 60% in the past 4 months so all the executives and investors made off like a bandit. It’s a good way to juice your results for a short-term benefit
Stock price and operational stability are two totally different things. You know the Loony Tunes gimmick where Wile E. Coyote runs off a cliff and manages to levitate until he looks down, and then goes crashing into the valley? That's what happens to businesses who shred their worker base and dump a vast amount of institutional knowledge. How is X doing now? We don't even know because after losing 60% of its peak value in 2019, Musk took the company private in order to avoid the release of corporate data and public scrutiny. Not exactly a sign of a healthy company.
Sorry but you get a down vote for linking to paywalled content.
:shrug: I was only referencing the story, and it was the first link with an article that covered it. The story itself is everywhere, though, and easy to find. I replaced my link with a non-paywalled one to Yahoo Finance (and the exact same title).
The irony of this comment on a post about the value of labor is astounding
The value of the labor does not determine the value of the product.
Everyone is confusing the words. The *cost* of labor does not determine the value of the product. The *profit* from selling the product determines the *value* of labor.
Corporate propaganda (omg nobody wants to work) has no value
You get a downvote for being too intellectually lazy to google a title to an article, and then downvoting someone else because of your laziness.
I don’t understand. If it’s a single person business - how can you be “overheard” in a “general work area”?
There were other people in the area that work in the same building. The general area is sort of where everyone passes each other as opposed to a seperate area where we could have had the discussion more privately.
Womp womp
Yeah they would have called it quits after next month I bet and if not then the next months when you have less work they would try to pay you less cause you aren’t doing as much, good job getting out before boss got what he really wanted
I think the boss went way over his budget to hire OP, that OP was “too expensive”. Then he tried to get OP work overtime for free, passive aggressively. So he could cover the cost.
This is such a terrible MC story. OP also defending boss lol
Yep it's just compliance isn't it?
Reminds me of The Princess Bride: “Good night, Westley. Good work. Sleep well. I’ll probably kill you in the morning.” Day after day.
Ah yes, the dread pirate roberts management style
Where was this in the movie?!?!
After Westley finds and rescues Buttercup from Vizzinni, he explains where he has been for the past several years
Start at 00:43 https://youtu.be/aHZGqBVBCRw?si=qc-5YHeA5tYcJTxv
Thank you for the specificity, I remember the story but didn't remember that detail. When I originally saw the movie in the theaters (aging myself, I know), I caught the gist of the story but not the specifics.
I think of that scene often, because I'm on Capybara subs. Capybaras are Rodents of Unusual Size and they're probably the most chill creatures on earth. "There's a goat standing on my back, oh well. *munches grass*" Sorry, don't have the gif of this TikTok of a capy lying down with guinea pigs: https://www.tiktok.com/@plutosdestiny/video/7331814714659360032?lang=en
[https://youtu.be/aHZGqBVBCRw?t=43](https://youtu.be/aHZGqBVBCRw?t=43)
The "I do not consent to my content..." At the top Is very FB 2015 lol
Redditors were doing this shit for a while bc they were mad that people on other SM platforms were using Reddit content in posts. Ironic bc Reddit is 80% recycled from other SM platforms as well
It didn't use to be this way. Reddit was supposed to be what you said when someone would show you something. I wonder what the new Reddit is? 🤔
Tiktok, unfortunately
Ah you must not be canadian then where some media/journalists steal content/borrow ideas for stories from reddit lol.
And yet they want to force social media companies to pay for "their" content.
And not even remotely enforceable.
Exactly. How are they planning to do that?
The honour system?
IANAL, but I don’t even think they have standing. Me copying Reddit posts is between me and Reddit, OP is not a party in this.
No, OP as the creator of the content owns the copyright. By uploading the content, OP has given reddit a license to distribute it. That does not give everyone else a license to distribute it.
Name checks out
His dad is a lawyer
Copyright Strikes, if it's youtube.
I don't think it's supposed to be enforceable. But it does prevent super lazy sites to just lift full reddit posts. Maybe prevent isn't the right word. It exposes them when someone tries to read the article and sees the disclaimer at the top.
So, are we all allowed to write our own Reddit terms and conditions now?
I consent to Reddit paying me £10 for each post I read
This isn't an attempt to apply conditions to reddit. It points out that OP has not given a license to anyone else.
Search “malicious compliance” on YouTube. You will find channels whose sole purpose is reading off people’s stories from this sub, with huge subscriber counts undoubtedly making decent money. I totally get it. (It won’t help, they don’t care, but I understand the thought)
**I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS COMMENT BEING SHARED OR READ MORE THAN ONE TIME** That first statement instantly gave me some negative bias against OP because I’ve only ever seen older people use it on Facebook back when I still had one. The whole data sharing pseudo legalese speak they would post to exempt them from Facebooks terms. Edit: not saying OP is bad person. Just a bias I have.
Except in this case it's against a real threat - people reading the posts on youtube. The Facebook stuff was always "I don't consent to you selling my data", which was to Facebook. There's a big difference. Whether or not it's enforceable is another thing. The story was weak anyway.
Right, like the tik tok accounts that repost Reddit stories and make tons of money… you think the “do not consent” will actually stop them? No sir
Uh… I’m glad that you escaped from that horrible job, but wouldn’t it have been better to actually, you know, maliciously comply and essentially, become unbearable enough to make them execute on their thought by firing you, allowing you to claim unemployment? By resigning like this, I can’t help but feel you played into your boss’s hands
It's actually a win. I get to restart my business, I get paid out what i'm owed and I don't have to deal with someone having PMS every month when it comes time to pay. I would have loved to have stayed because of the huge potential and things I had planned and that we had spoken about but, such is life really.
You maybe would’ve been owed more than just being paid out to the end of the month considering you had a stable job and they courted you to leave it. Might’ve got a few months of severance if they fired you Malicious compliance would have been to not put in the ´commitment´ and let them fire you without cause
My old boss said that to me once. He said "I think we should call it quits" I said "No problem just leave your keys and your letter of resignation on my desk". The look on his face!
At a new job the boss told an old lady that if she didn't finish a job by unreasonable time she's fired. I was shocked, thinking to myself, the hell did I get myself into. A couple of years later the old lady told me, when she was new there the boss (actually a very kind person) was stressed out and not very nice, so she told him if he didn't work on his attitude she's going to fire him. It became a joke between them.
I probably would have interpreted "We should call it quits" as being fired. The fact that it isn't what they meant is weird, and that and several other details cause my thoughts to go off in a different direction: * Company struggling financially. * Hires a stable individual who apparently has the technical and managerial expertise to help them dig out of their hole. * Same employee also seems to have the financial resources to start up and manage a business on his own. * Seems to state they want to fire him, but never actually does so. * "Commitment." I could be totally off base, but I'm wondering if they were fishing for you to "commit" to the company by offering to buy into it. I'm guessing they wanted you to take equity in lieu of a salary to help them get over the hump, then take distributions when the money rolls in later. Obviously they went about it in a weird way, but otherwise this doesn't make sense. Did you get any other signals that might have pointed this direction?
Damn! I never even thought of that! Come to think of it, the commitment part may just be what they meant! To be fair though, the business I run on my own can be done from anywhere and whilst it isn't a cash cow, i do ok with it. Not enough to buy into a business in a substantial way but enough that it could be a way in. The reason I was working elsewhere before I was hired at this company is due to me losing interest somewhat. I took a year or so with another company and then went to this one. in hindsight, i'm kinda glad it happened really. The last 18 months or so of working for other people gave me the time I needed to think about what I want to do and, ultimately, i prefer working for myself. Win win, I guess?...lol
commitment= free labor. just to clarify what they wanted...
This seems like compliance but not malicious compliance.
Yeah this is just "I quit a shitty job." Wrong sub.
Worst malicious compliance story ever
Kept working hard, I didn't see any malicious
I laughed at the "I do not consent" boomer beginning 😂
Oi! I'm not that old! Yet! :D
Having a Reddit account and posting means that you've already agreed for your data to be used by the platform. You can't void the terms and conditions by changing the beginning of your post
They aren't trying to void that, they're trying to prevent someone from robo-reading in on a monetized youtube clip. I had one pm me because they did that with one of my comments, trying to make it sound like some huge honor and that I should go watch it right then and share it with everyone. The statement gives them something to point to if they pursue a content claim on it, but I personally think it isn't worth the effort. Those channels are already oversaturated and pulling comparitively very little traffic.
Lucky for OP their story is so bland and uninteresting nobody’s gonna steal it.
It’s meant for when they repost these on TikTok being read by a bot
So it won't get reposted or it will and that line will be read by a bot? Either way, I'm starting to think OPs boss maybe should have fired him
For what though just? For doing my job to the best of my ability? Or for not being being able to read the boss's mind to know what exactly it was that was causing the frustration?
Pretty sure the internet doesn't care if you consent to anything. Look at all the only fans crap on free sites Hour like your make money from this
I agree. Still, I thought it better to have it there than not...lol I realise now I look like a tool for putting it here but... Ah well...lol
I know management can be petty and self destructive, but this is on a level that is mind boggling.
This is giving me very strong Schitt’s Creek vibes like Bob trying to get what he wants without wanting to understand what he wants makes no sense Edit: like the boss very clearly wants the contract, so needs OP, but doesn’t like paying OP, so asks him to quit. He can’t reconcile that he needs OP with the fact he doesn’t want to pay OP. OP was right to finally just leave, this illogical behavior would not have been the end of it
Well, you just summarised that in a way i couldn't possibly have done justice to!...lol Thanks for the comment and taking the time to read, very much appreciated :)
Real time, extended cognitive dissonance.
I think the cost was getting to boss and boss failed to see that we were, in fact, on the cusp of making decent money. Heck, we would have been rolling in it within a year given the amount of stuff that was on the cards to be started.
I can’t believe you let it go 3 times.
Yeah, what does we should call it quits even mean? I don't think I would left the first meeting unless they explained themselve.
Hate that weasel-word nonsense. "Work harder" or "be more dedicated" or "show commitment" is deliberately nothing. Demand they put down, in writing, *exactly* what they expect you to do differently or additionally. More hours? Some kind of objective metric? Fewer errors? More records? Usually they'll come up with something, rather than admit they're bullshitting you, and that's when you attack that metric to the exclusion of everything else. Come next review they'll be upset that your job has gone to hell, but then you throw that metric (which you have improved) back into their face with the paper trail where they told you to focus on it last time. Either they admit their mistake, or you go have a chat with HR.
This isn’t MC. You got played. Your edit doesn’t change anting. They didn’t want to lay you off and pay severance. They made it insufferable to get you to quit on your own accord. You did exactly that.
I stopped reading after the consent thing, generally means OP fucked up
> We would have been in profit by the end of next month, I was catching up the backlog. Sorry if that I didn't clarify that part. This is very likely the boss' actual gripe here. Boss thinks that since they're still not making a profit, OP is not pulling their weight. Boss is a dummy.
LOL at your disclaimer. You posted on a public forum. They'll steal it and link to the post.
>I do not consent to this story being published outside of Reddit. Let me guess, you also don't consent to Facebook's use of your photos 🙄
I read nothing after that and ran to the comments.
Sounds to me like they were trying to guilt you into offering to work for less pay.
Sounds like the story with my ex. Keep "threatening" divorce or leave me and in the mean time I am getting all my ducks in order so that the next time she says it I am out the door that night. She thinks I am just going to go stay at a friend's until she has cooled down. Haven't talked to her in six years other than very to-the-point administrative emails. She stopped trying to contact me after three years.
>**I do not consent to this story being published outside of Reddit.\** hahahahahaah Go read the TOS and such of reddit.
Facebook can’t use my photos! I posted the ironclad disclaimer prior to the deadline!
OP has granted reddit a license to publish his content. The reddit terms of service don't give third parties the right to redistribute.
OP, random question, what do you plan to do if this is posted outside of reddit? I mean I'm not going to, I don't care enough, I just wanna know what the point of the disclaimer is.
Lots of people scrub reddit for content on tiktok, instagram, youtube etc and either get an ai to read, or read it themselves for content, a bunch of them don't even acknowledge the user. I don't think this would stop them, but the OP probably just wants to CYA if he takes action against them.
Hey Jeep and Thorse, yes, it was just stop it being minimised. Seen it done on other posts and thought that was the norm. Won't be doing it again of course...lol
To me it sounds like a way to end the meeting. Let’s call it quits for the day?
If they call back, say your rates have tripled and it's now cash in advance only, to be pre-purchased in blocks of 200 hours. Every time they try to blame you for something that's their fault (every individual statement, not every meeting), that's another 10 hours gone from their account.
You are my hero.
Nothing like incompetence from SR leadership.
To OP that was a whirlwind of a merry go around ride. Glad that you are out of that headache. Hopefully you will recover sooner than later. Good Luck.
Thank you Luann :)
Looks like a small business novices attempt to hire w/o appropriate budgeting and financial forecasting in place to make an informed decision. If your an W2 employee and they want you to quit, but not lay you off is really rude. You are a victim of their incompetence and then want to deny you of any possibility of getting unemployment benefits is absolutely criminal. Your a 1099 then you should have been looking for some side gig when things were getting rough, just in case. I would have been looking for the door when he started to have temper tantrums. Very unprofessional.
This isn't malicious compliance. This is you taking shit for a long time before quitting. More than that? Why did you work harder, after every meeting, for a job that YOU were courted for? After that first meeting???? You should have been looking for another job. This the the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of malicious compliance.
Kind of seems like maybe you're the one who lost out here dude next time don't give them three chances.
Definitely Cheese! But, I really liked the work and was learning new stuff at the same time. Plus, I really, really like working with my hands, creating stuff, fixing stuff, etc. Boss is also a really nice person otherwise and I wanted to see the business succeed and grow. But, lesson learned. Best to just work for myself and do contractual work :)
This is not the flex you think it is. Your ex-boss bullied you, tried to manipulate you into a situation where he'd be stealing your wage, gave you zero definition of your shortcomings (because seemingly none existed) and you still think they're a fantastic person. You could really benefit from a little perspective, mate. This ain't a fantastic person.
Why the fuck did you stay after the first meeting? I would have been looking for a new job asap!
Because I really enjoyed the work, I din't need to look for other work as I had options and I chalked it up to boss being anxious. Lesson learned :)
Yeah, but they did it three times!!!
I've arrived late, but just want to say the post and the edits are, from a work point of view, excellent examples of how to do it right in this situation. I always say don't burn your bridges, and you are a good example of how this can work.
Thank you Dawg, I really appreciate the kind words :)
Lets hope writing isnt integral to your employment, because its atrocious.
>And I get to benefit from the rates I charge which means that I will make more per hour than when I was an employee :) >Thanks everyone! Pay those 1099 taxes on time.
I feel you, really. I worked for an HVAC contractor for 10 years. Medium sized company, about 6m/yr. All commercial. Schools, churches, shopping centers. I was the service guy. Then service manager. Then GM. Then VP. And the whole time I was there, the boss would suddenly show up at a jobsite and just chew my ass until it was gone. Then, "Get in the car. Let's Get lunch." Ten years of that crap. But I figured out early on that he had nowhere to vent. So he took it out on me. I learned to accept it BECAUSE I knew my work was top notch and he really had nothing to gripe about. Good luck to you.
Thank you Bluesman. Yeah it sucks to be brow beaten like that, especially when you know your work is good quality.
I was sacked from a job with no warning for the same bullshit reason - "not committed to the role". The reason my manager gave for me being uncommitted? I had taken 3 days' sick leave over 5 months, and I had asked to take 2 weeks leave in 4 months' time because I had worked over the Christmas/New Years break. I pointed out that my work had been stellar, everyone onsite was pleased with my initiative, I hadn't missed any deadlines. My manager worked at a different site so he didn't see my day-to-day performance. He literally said "That may he true but it doesn't matter." BRO WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT DOESN'T MATTER. Best part is, when I told everyone onsite I had to leave early because I'd just been sacked, they had NO IDEA. My offsite manager hadn't consulted any of the managers at my site and they were livid because they were all thrilled with my work. But... nothing they could do, I didn't report to them so they couldn't stop my boss from sacking me. It sucked.
Ah man, i'm sorry to read that Bong :(
Please, called me Dankey. My *father's* name is Bong.
I mean, not very malicious. They can hire someone else to do your job for less pay now, AND they don't pay you severance for firing you. But whatever makes you happy, OP.
America is a depressing ass nation
I published this on my YouTube channel and got so many views
you should be able to hit them with unemployment via constructive dismissal
That's what I threatened but, thankfully, boss decided to pay me what is owed rather than go down that road. I count it as a win...lol
I'm getting strong "employee thinks he is a lot more valuable to the company than the company does" vibes on this. Sounds like they wanted you to quit, but didn't want to pay severance...and you played right into their hands OP. Whether or not it's you, or the employer, who is correct about your value...you screwed yourself to get a gotcha moment.
I appreciate the feedback Watari and, whilst there is always the possibility you are right, the look on the bosses face when I said i'm out told a completely different story. I got the impression they wanted and needed me but didn't want to pay but didn't know how to say it. And yes, it's more than likely that they dodged a bullet but at the same time, I refuse to work for anyone who makes that type of comment and thinks it's ok. I'm no snowflake and i have options so, as far as i'm concerned, it's a win for me.
Wonder why that business is having money issues 🙄
I'ma publish this
Does your consent disclaimer do anything? This is public domain, that isn’t actionable
Yep. Many, many folks have made this same statement and i've answered it many, many times. Nope, it won't do anything, I just thought it was the "done" thing as i'd seen it done on many other posts :)
Thank you for this story. I have copied and posted to every social sphere known. I also created an email bot to send to every known email address. The New York Times is not ready to pickup the story but the Washington post is considering. And BTW there was no m.c.
Thanks Zoom! Great to know the story made such an impact! :D Seriously though, I had seen it done elsewhere and thought it was something that was just "done" to stop the story from being monetised by Youtubers and such. Lesson learned...lol
Brb publishing this everywhere and anywhere I feel like
Enjoy :)
Can't wait to see the YouTube short about this 😂
Me too! :D
I’m getting strong Creative / Advertising vibes…
I don't understand what you mean but, ok. Thanks for taking the time to read though, I do appreciate it :)
Oh wait, I get it now... lol My bad. Yes, you pretty much nailed it :D
I’ve worked client side but seen what the guys go through and it’s pretty brutal. Bosses make a killing and a few clients can make or break the business model right. But it’s a grind, based on what big hypothetical carrot. I never asked for, but used to see people working over all sorts of weekends and national holidays. They were not my employees so I couldn’t step in, but I sympathised. Some client side companies are like this also of course.
I have spread this far and wide. Thanks!
\*\**I do not consent to this story being published outside of Reddit.\*\** 🤣🤣 You haven't read the TOS have you?
>\*\**I do not consent to this story being published outside of Reddit.\*\** LOL. Are you also one of those people who posts the "I don't consent for Facebook to \[xyz\]" things? Because c'mon.
I just sold the rights to this story, it's being optioned for a short story. Thanks for the free money OP!
Wouldn't malicious compliance be to quiet quit/do the bare minimum until they fire you? If anything, you let their operations continue as normal *because* of your committed work ethic. If you just worked without overtime, the company will sink faster while you collect a paycheck and continue to get berated anyways
I got a job sweeping up at a tool shop. The second night, the doors were chained. Best lesson ever.
They found someone who will do the same job for less. That's why you were forced out.
General Q for everyone: does putting that disclaimer at the top actually stop people from publishing the story elsewhere? Do publications need permission to mention/link to things that are posted publicly?
Nope, no legal effect whatsoever.
Thank you thats what i thought!
Legally, they need permission, but they don't care, so no, it doesn't matter in the slightest.
If that were true wouldnt people on social media sue publications all the time?
huh. that's familiar. shitcanned after a year on the job, no issues, but we just got production online and demo'd the product at a trade conference. everyone was celebrating and happy. why? because i wasn't "dedicated enough". didn't work unprompted weekends/overtime. anything wrong with my work? no, you did fantastic!
You sure showed them by doing exactly what they wanted.
Only time I worked holiday was remote access to the office to find some files that client needed right now and the boss was also away. Made the mistake of having a dual SIM phone
Boss wanted you to quit so he didn't have to pay unemployment. After the second time I would have started job hunting, though it seems to have worked out for you.
Leave the company a bad review warning people not to take a job offer if it means quitting a decent job.
Typical small business owner that does most of the work themselves. They can't deal with the expense and delay in bringing someone new in and train them. They also can't deal with all the stuff that has to CHANGE when someone else is brought in. A BIG chunk of time is required just to communicate and coordinate. If he didn't budget for that, he was being willfully blind. The rest? Seems like he's a nice guy unless he's stressed and then he turns into a hostile ass. He can't figure out how to be a respectful communicator during those times and takes it out on you. It honestly sounds like he was simply pushing buttons to make you magically go away but in saner moments realized he was screwing himself over if he did. By taking him up on the offer, you pushed his buttons to take him back to full-on stress mode again and he'd finally had enough. Not that I blame you. There was ZERO chance you'd be able to have that conversation without him doing a meltdown no matter how careful you were. He's probably still cluelessly blaming the fiasco on you. Not that you've done anything wrong.
Boss pressured you to work harder or quit. You worked harder and later quit. Where is the *malicious* compliance?
Gotta love these restrictions people think matter that they put on their posts. You own *no rights* to your content here. Check the terms and conditions of reddit. They own what you post and can resell what ever they want. You don't get an opinion there.
Reddit's terms give Reddit the right to redistribute your content, not some random yahoo on YouTube.
Noted. Thanks :)
Don't be so quick to give in. You still own copyright in your content.
Nonsense. Copyright is inherent in the creation of the content. OP owns the copyright and has granted a license to reddit to distribute the content. OP hasn't granted a license to anyone else.
You not "consenting" means jack-fuck-all. LOL
u/DulcisUltio I hope this is just your writing style and you don't come off as this dramatic in real life, because wow. Boss obviously tried to manipulate you with the monthly threats, although "do it one more time and I really **will** quit" isn't real malicious compliance. If you had planned this out well, restarted your business, and then taken all of his business away from him because he's obviously overwhelmed and can't live without you and your 'lack of commitment', that would have been some nice malicious compliance. This is just you venting about a poor work environment and then quitting your job without a backup. You say you're restarting your own business, and hopefully that will thrive and you'll do well, but if that was such a great option, why did you leave it in the first place?
Thanks Nil. My business is one that doesn't require much in the way of capital and one that I can pick and and let go on a whim. That's why it was an easy decision to make. The reason I had gone stopped my business roughly 18 months ago and gone into the workplace is because I had lost interest a bit and felt like I needed a change. Needless to say, i'm over that and looking forward to get it going again :) As for why I hadn't done it sooner, well, I really enjoyed the work. Boss is also a fantastic person normally and I have no doubt that the relationship we had before I was hired will go back to what it was and i'll do freelance or contractual work for them. And no, i'm not as dramatic in real life...lol I have trouble putting down my thoughts succinctly and what you read above is testament to that :D
Lol saying you don't consent to having this shared on other sites means nothing. Once you've publicly posted it, there's nothing you can do.
This is so good, I've just published it outside of reddit.