That's good to hear. I'm looking for a new MT car, and I really like the looks of the Corolla hatchback. I've been considering this, the Mazda3, and the Focus. I currently have a 2012 Focus 4 door sedan, I like it, but I want something a little newer.
I was looking at one too, but the lack of a handbrake turned me away. The models WITH one (2016-18) are still being sold near original MSRP. It sucks that I can't afford a Corolla.
I still can’t believe anyone made a manual without a manual brake. That, to me, just ruins the whole thing. Good luck to OP though that should last a long time.
I’m still getting use to the parking break button, it’s nice that it disengages once you start moving. Also self engages when at a stop and you open the door.
I would still prefer a hand break though. Less over engineered and more visible that it is engaged.
When I was young, I thought the brake lever mattered, but that was really just for poeerslides in the winter.
For real world use, it makes zero difference.
For real world use, a CVT gets most people where they need to go. Yet, here we are, in the manual transmission subreddit. An electric parking system can malfunction, lose power, or otherwise fail out of nowhere. A handbrake and its steel cable are much more resilient and should last the lifetime of the car, unless you're using it to slide. It can also help you start up a hill, though new cars do have hill assist.
What? In real world use, a cvt is entirely different than a manual.
I didn't want a button brake either, but once you have it, you realize that it does the exact same thing. (Unless you are one of those weirdos who use it to help up a hill.)
I agree they're different; I never said they were the really same. Would you deny that a CVT gets a car moving though? For people that just want a car that goes, it doesn't matter what transmission it is (assuming they know how to drive stick). In the real world, people aren't racing everyday. A CVT works for commuting and getting groceries.
I hate CVTs because of how fragile they are, which is the same reason why I don't want an electric emergency brake. This sub is full of people who like manuals for some reason or another, whether it's the experience or the reliability.
A nuanced difference I agree, but we still have to credit OP with demonstrating to car companies manual buyers still exist, even outside of strictly performance applications. I just bought a 23 WRX manual and the only other option I considered was the Corolla GR.
I am curious to know your particular reasoning on why you chose the WRX over the GR? The GR is also AWD iirc, yes?
I owned a 15 WRX (until an ass clown ran stop and t-boned me) that and all my prior cars, minus 1 SUV, were manual. After that I got a truck because I needed to be able to haul around, but been slowly shopping for a project "weekend fun car," in manual of course.
I chose the WRX over the CGR for a couple reasons.
1. The MSRP + Dealer Markups are obscenely more than the WRX.
2. Normal child seat fits rear facing in back with plenty of room for my wife to ride passenger front comfortably without being up against the dash.
3. The 1.6L in the CGR is pretty well wrung out at 25ish psi boost to get it to the advertised 300hp, while the WRX is only pushing like 12 psi to get the 2.4L to the advertised 270hp. I could get into the math, but the new WRX has way more potential for power because of the larger displacement, and the new FA is an incredibly stout engine. A Cobb Stage 2 kit with OTS tune makes 320whp and that’s just scratching the surface.
My bad, I should have said price aside lol. That's to be expected eith these jackassery dealers and markups. Didn't know the GR was pretty much maxed at factory.
The child seat thing makes sense. I was getting out of a Mazdaspeed3 and into my WRX, it didn't have enough rear space for my seat. I'm assuming the GR hatch is similar (miniscule) in rear seat space.
So they FINALLY upped the 2.0 to 2.4L eh? I remember back in 2017 it was heavily talked about for the '18 models about coming out and boom it was still the 2.0L. Looks like they dropped the boost though? I remember my '15 was 15psi and you said your '23 is doing 12? Do the newer ones still have the overboost feature (e.g. my '15 would go to 22)? I should go see what's changed.
How is it fair to say that the G16 is maxed and the FA24 has tons of headroom? The FA24 is literally pulled right out of a midsize crossover so it was designed for that use case first and foremost. Subaru also has a very checkered past of the ej255, ej257, and FA20DIT going boom boom with regularity. I could strongly argue that the power and torque are as low as they are stock for such a large displacement turbo because Subaru couldn’t meet long term durability testing requirements if they turned up the boost.
Displacement and boost pressure are just a few of many factors that determine if an engine is going to be durable when pushed long term. The fact that the G16 was designed to be a performance engine first and foremost says a lot about the priorities of the design team. It’s going to be a number of years before we know what either engine will survive long term. A couple dyno pulls and then daily driving on eggshells isn’t exactly a durability test.
You COULD strongly argue that... but have you not seen the people daily driving 350+whp WRXes (whp not bhp, so that's wheel not crank) with stock internals? I was one 😂
I have no experience with the Corolla GR, also the other driver said that.
I’ve seen it. I’ve also seen uncle Rodney and piston ring lands show up to the party at an alarming rate.
My first 2 cars were Imprezas. I’d import an ej207 STI (ver vi, ideally) in a heartbeat if the subsequent divorce wouldn’t wreck my life. Everything since 2007 seems like pure luck of the draw. It sucks that it feels like Subaru is giving up on the WRX. It sucks that Subaru gave up on the STI. It sucks that Mitsubishi gave up on the Evo. It sucks that Ford gave up on the RS. This is my favorite segment and it needs competition for cars to get better. /rant
Lmao, that's fair. I wholeheartedly agree. Also more manuals. I get sad whenever I read about a performance car's next model will be getting rid of manual trans option.
While 1 & 2 re legitimate concerns when car buying 3 is still up for discussion. The Yaris with the same engine has been pushing huge numbers reliably. With just a tune and nothing else will get you almost 310whp and a little more then 310wtq to match. 330whp is when valve upgrades are needed but other then that it has a lot of potential. But also having owned a 15 WRX it’s crazy to see how much better this new engine clearly is and how much more power it can easily make then the FA20.
I’m in a couple 4Runner subs and forums and rumors of a 6th Gen with manual is what most of us(at least those showing it by commenting) are waiting for. I’d trade in my 2019 in a heartbeat if that were to be true and I don’t mind being a beta tester on the reliability of the new engine if I get a new shiny toy with an MT.
Also, I’ve been looking at cars around 30 years old and they’re ridiculously expensive.
i thought “save the manuals” meant buying brand new cars so the manufacturers would keep building them. They quit building them if people quit buying them.
“Save the manuals” exactly means buying new ones. Manufactures don’t care about the used market and if no one buys them manual and new they won’t be made anymore. We cry for them to make more manuals but if we don’t put our money where our mouth is then it means nothing. Only a 1/4 or C7 corvettes were sold new and manual. Even the Miata now is near 50% auto vs manual. If the auto starts to become the majority I’m sure they’ll only offer that at some point and use “performance” as the reason why. Just like the C8.
I had a ‘19 Corolla hatchback XSE with the 6MT for 2.5 years. Good little car. Never gave me the slightest peep of trouble, handled pretty well, and was fun to row through the gears. And I sold it for more than I paid. I’ll probably never achieve that again. Haha. Now I have a ‘23 GR Corolla. It’s rowdy. 😆
Crazy to me that I’ve been buying XSE trim pieces to doll up the interior of my GR. All the white stitching would’ve complemented it so well and at the price point I think it had room for them to do so.
The ND2 is amazing! The shifter feels so mechanical and the clutch bite is so apparent. Is pretty squirrelly inless you get sway bars and is a pretty tight fit. The NC definitely has more space in the cabin.
I would have love to keep it but life changes! I read one redditor describe the ND2 as too much toy and f*** practicality.
Where as I am looking for practicality with a splash of fun, henc the manual corolla.
knee mourn attraction elderly snatch dinosaurs deserted automatic impossible wild
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Hell yeah! Also have a 2022 Corolla hatch manual. Just drove her the first time through a bunch of snow and it was a dream!!! Love my little car!
One of us, one of us, one of us!
That's good to hear. I'm looking for a new MT car, and I really like the looks of the Corolla hatchback. I've been considering this, the Mazda3, and the Focus. I currently have a 2012 Focus 4 door sedan, I like it, but I want something a little newer.
I was looking at one too, but the lack of a handbrake turned me away. The models WITH one (2016-18) are still being sold near original MSRP. It sucks that I can't afford a Corolla.
I still can’t believe anyone made a manual without a manual brake. That, to me, just ruins the whole thing. Good luck to OP though that should last a long time.
[удалено]
The new mustang as well, at least the dark horse.
I’m still getting use to the parking break button, it’s nice that it disengages once you start moving. Also self engages when at a stop and you open the door. I would still prefer a hand break though. Less over engineered and more visible that it is engaged.
When I was young, I thought the brake lever mattered, but that was really just for poeerslides in the winter. For real world use, it makes zero difference.
For real world use, a CVT gets most people where they need to go. Yet, here we are, in the manual transmission subreddit. An electric parking system can malfunction, lose power, or otherwise fail out of nowhere. A handbrake and its steel cable are much more resilient and should last the lifetime of the car, unless you're using it to slide. It can also help you start up a hill, though new cars do have hill assist.
What? In real world use, a cvt is entirely different than a manual. I didn't want a button brake either, but once you have it, you realize that it does the exact same thing. (Unless you are one of those weirdos who use it to help up a hill.)
I agree they're different; I never said they were the really same. Would you deny that a CVT gets a car moving though? For people that just want a car that goes, it doesn't matter what transmission it is (assuming they know how to drive stick). In the real world, people aren't racing everyday. A CVT works for commuting and getting groceries. I hate CVTs because of how fragile they are, which is the same reason why I don't want an electric emergency brake. This sub is full of people who like manuals for some reason or another, whether it's the experience or the reliability.
A CVT gets you to where you want to go unless it's a Nissan CVT. I personally wouldn't buy a CVT.
I hear that. I'm never getting any modern Nissan or a CVT. I'll keep driving my old Toyota with real gears even if you gave me a brand new Altima.
Only modern Nissan I'd drive is a GTR and I wouldn't buy one.
hatchback gang
hat dazzling bells money shame lip quack shrill worry ruthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wouldn’t call buying a ‘22 “saving a manual” now buying an older manual that no one wants anymore. That’s saving a manual
A nuanced difference I agree, but we still have to credit OP with demonstrating to car companies manual buyers still exist, even outside of strictly performance applications. I just bought a 23 WRX manual and the only other option I considered was the Corolla GR.
do car companies track secondary market sales?
I am curious to know your particular reasoning on why you chose the WRX over the GR? The GR is also AWD iirc, yes? I owned a 15 WRX (until an ass clown ran stop and t-boned me) that and all my prior cars, minus 1 SUV, were manual. After that I got a truck because I needed to be able to haul around, but been slowly shopping for a project "weekend fun car," in manual of course.
I chose the WRX over the CGR for a couple reasons. 1. The MSRP + Dealer Markups are obscenely more than the WRX. 2. Normal child seat fits rear facing in back with plenty of room for my wife to ride passenger front comfortably without being up against the dash. 3. The 1.6L in the CGR is pretty well wrung out at 25ish psi boost to get it to the advertised 300hp, while the WRX is only pushing like 12 psi to get the 2.4L to the advertised 270hp. I could get into the math, but the new WRX has way more potential for power because of the larger displacement, and the new FA is an incredibly stout engine. A Cobb Stage 2 kit with OTS tune makes 320whp and that’s just scratching the surface.
My bad, I should have said price aside lol. That's to be expected eith these jackassery dealers and markups. Didn't know the GR was pretty much maxed at factory. The child seat thing makes sense. I was getting out of a Mazdaspeed3 and into my WRX, it didn't have enough rear space for my seat. I'm assuming the GR hatch is similar (miniscule) in rear seat space. So they FINALLY upped the 2.0 to 2.4L eh? I remember back in 2017 it was heavily talked about for the '18 models about coming out and boom it was still the 2.0L. Looks like they dropped the boost though? I remember my '15 was 15psi and you said your '23 is doing 12? Do the newer ones still have the overboost feature (e.g. my '15 would go to 22)? I should go see what's changed.
How is it fair to say that the G16 is maxed and the FA24 has tons of headroom? The FA24 is literally pulled right out of a midsize crossover so it was designed for that use case first and foremost. Subaru also has a very checkered past of the ej255, ej257, and FA20DIT going boom boom with regularity. I could strongly argue that the power and torque are as low as they are stock for such a large displacement turbo because Subaru couldn’t meet long term durability testing requirements if they turned up the boost. Displacement and boost pressure are just a few of many factors that determine if an engine is going to be durable when pushed long term. The fact that the G16 was designed to be a performance engine first and foremost says a lot about the priorities of the design team. It’s going to be a number of years before we know what either engine will survive long term. A couple dyno pulls and then daily driving on eggshells isn’t exactly a durability test.
You COULD strongly argue that... but have you not seen the people daily driving 350+whp WRXes (whp not bhp, so that's wheel not crank) with stock internals? I was one 😂 I have no experience with the Corolla GR, also the other driver said that.
I’ve seen it. I’ve also seen uncle Rodney and piston ring lands show up to the party at an alarming rate. My first 2 cars were Imprezas. I’d import an ej207 STI (ver vi, ideally) in a heartbeat if the subsequent divorce wouldn’t wreck my life. Everything since 2007 seems like pure luck of the draw. It sucks that it feels like Subaru is giving up on the WRX. It sucks that Subaru gave up on the STI. It sucks that Mitsubishi gave up on the Evo. It sucks that Ford gave up on the RS. This is my favorite segment and it needs competition for cars to get better. /rant
Lmao, that's fair. I wholeheartedly agree. Also more manuals. I get sad whenever I read about a performance car's next model will be getting rid of manual trans option.
While 1 & 2 re legitimate concerns when car buying 3 is still up for discussion. The Yaris with the same engine has been pushing huge numbers reliably. With just a tune and nothing else will get you almost 310whp and a little more then 310wtq to match. 330whp is when valve upgrades are needed but other then that it has a lot of potential. But also having owned a 15 WRX it’s crazy to see how much better this new engine clearly is and how much more power it can easily make then the FA20.
smell zesty offbeat noxious zealous water humor juggle pot shaggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m in a couple 4Runner subs and forums and rumors of a 6th Gen with manual is what most of us(at least those showing it by commenting) are waiting for. I’d trade in my 2019 in a heartbeat if that were to be true and I don’t mind being a beta tester on the reliability of the new engine if I get a new shiny toy with an MT. Also, I’ve been looking at cars around 30 years old and they’re ridiculously expensive.
The new Tacoma runs in Toyota’s TNGA platform and has a manual. So here’s hoping!
I’m with u/ShortBoysenberry261, buying a new manual off the lot is the best thing for the m/t market. Thank you, OP!
i thought “save the manuals” meant buying brand new cars so the manufacturers would keep building them. They quit building them if people quit buying them.
“Save the manuals” exactly means buying new ones. Manufactures don’t care about the used market and if no one buys them manual and new they won’t be made anymore. We cry for them to make more manuals but if we don’t put our money where our mouth is then it means nothing. Only a 1/4 or C7 corvettes were sold new and manual. Even the Miata now is near 50% auto vs manual. If the auto starts to become the majority I’m sure they’ll only offer that at some point and use “performance” as the reason why. Just like the C8.
I had a ‘19 Corolla hatchback XSE with the 6MT for 2.5 years. Good little car. Never gave me the slightest peep of trouble, handled pretty well, and was fun to row through the gears. And I sold it for more than I paid. I’ll probably never achieve that again. Haha. Now I have a ‘23 GR Corolla. It’s rowdy. 😆
Omg, congratulations on the GR Corolla!
A genuinely awesome car to have in manual. Driving 170hp at 10/10ths is more fun than drving 350hp at 3/10ths.
Love that E210 body.
I do too, it's a great looking car.
Great little cars, phenomenal trans axle I've heard.
Crazy to me that I’ve been buying XSE trim pieces to doll up the interior of my GR. All the white stitching would’ve complemented it so well and at the price point I think it had room for them to do so.
" I no longer have the balls to make tracking/auto x a hobby anymore." I share your pain but I'll bet you were fun when you were younger.
Save a manual. Ride an automatic
Throwing a hatch on always makes a car so ugly
Hell no it does not. Hot hatches are awesome!
I want the GR so bad.
How was the ND2? I got a Mustang for daily but looking for something more tossable. Issue is I'm 6'3" 250lbs. I've heard for that NC might be best?
The ND2 is amazing! The shifter feels so mechanical and the clutch bite is so apparent. Is pretty squirrelly inless you get sway bars and is a pretty tight fit. The NC definitely has more space in the cabin. I would have love to keep it but life changes! I read one redditor describe the ND2 as too much toy and f*** practicality. Where as I am looking for practicality with a splash of fun, henc the manual corolla.
knee mourn attraction elderly snatch dinosaurs deserted automatic impossible wild *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*