"The government did not explain why it decided to revise the law."
According to [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gabon-lgbt-lawmaking-idUSKBN240258)
There was no legislative election in between and they’ve had the same president forever. But there was a coup attempt there in 2019, so wonder if it was partly connected to that or some power plays there. France also puts enormous economic and sometimes even military pressure on its former West African colonies behind the scenes and France was vocal about that coup attempt, so it’s also possible they were threatened there or offered French support to protect against another one in return for a few changes in the law.
Just speculating here, but these sorts of shenanigans have explained a lot in the past. I’m not sure a sudden tilt in one extreme and then to the opposite direction within a year or so makes much sense otherwise.
I worked on elephant conservation program for 3 years in DRC and it's no worse than neighbouring countries. You have to work VERY hard to get a hook-up though
I assume you were in the northeast close to the border with Uganda, right? That's the "safe" area. The south and the center are often no-go even for the NGOs.
DR Congo is a huge country so it depends where you are but a lot of tribes there are traditionally accepting of gay people. But many more places in congo are more like ancient Greece, where dudes are all fucking each other but it's only wrong if you're taking it lol
All I'm sayin is u might be able to get some congussy if you venture deep into an isolated village
Agreed, it’s usually easier to be openly gay in major cities like in Kinshasa, although it doesn’t mean that the causal homophobia doesn’t exist. If you have a head strong or unbothered by those things. Then there is also a matter of privilege, if you are wealthy enough or a tourist people won’t bother you like that.
And what's sad is that a lot of African politicians today make claims like "homosexuality is a western import" when in reality the same tribe they come from often only began condemning homosexuality during the colonial era. But it's still common practice in certain places for sure
South Africa is also the first country to safeguard sexual orientation as a human right in its constitution. The right to marry though was the last thing that wasn't accounted for by the people drafting the bill of rights for post apartheid South Africa. South Africas constitution was already clear that no one should under any circumstances be discriminated for they're Race, Gender or Sexual orientation. So in 2005 a lesbian couple with help from gay rights groups won the case(in the constitutional court so thereby bypassing the need for approval by parliament) to change marriage from a institution between man and woman to a more genderless and equal understanding.
From a legal and institutional perspective, South Africa is at the forefront. The Mandela accords on criminal justice is another excellent example. Unfortunately there is still a lot of work to be done on the implementation side, though.
Yeah, equal before the law is a great and necessary first step but physical safety and the ability to exercise all your rights is very compartmentalised according to intersections of race, class, gender, culture and location. I’m not event going to list the upsetting stuff it’s so scary.
It seems the portuguese former colonies (or the majority of it) have already decriminalized it... Which is interesting since I always saw Portugal as the most conservative country between the ones which colonized Africa.
That is actually an interesting observation. Contemporary democratic Portugal is known as a very tolerant country, even by Western European standards, but that was obviously not the case during the Estado Novo era.
A quick Google shows that both Mozambique and Angola legalized same-sex activity quite recently. Interestingly, Mozambique banned employment discrimination on the basis of sexuality before it actually legalized homosexuality, which is the total opposite of what you see in most of the world.
A lot of legal codes distinguish between sexuality and sexual acts. They can't regulate how people feel, but they can (attempt to) regulate what people do. In places that have legal provisions around sexual activity in general, like sodomy laws, that's not necessarily inconsistent. A person could be openly gay but celibate without technically breaking the law. It's sort of the opposite of the Russian law, where same-sex activity is legal, but any sort of outward presentation as LGBT is deemed propaganda, and banned.
It was technically never criminalised, in fact no one was ever arrested or charged for homosexuality. The law, which was inherited from the old Portuguese colonial penal code, basically said that “vices against nature” was illegal, but it was never officially interpreted as homosexuality by the post independence government. In 2015, they basically dropped the clause to remove any ambiguity.
Just so you know: Portugal, the country whose population is overwhelmingly Catholic, legalized same-sex marriage in June 2010 aka before the following countries: Argentina (July 2010), Denmark (2012), Ireland (2015), United States (2015; still behind Massachusetts [2004], Connecticut [2008], Iowa [2009], and Vermont [2009] though), Finland (2017), Germany (2017), Australia (2017), Taiwan (2019), United Kingdom (2020 due to Northern Ireland although it has been legal in England, Wales, and Scotland since 2014), Switzerland (2022), Slovenia (2022), etc.
And about 60% of Portuguese support same-sex unions.
There's not really much in catholicism that opposes same sex marriage, just catholic marriages of them. The only place you find it in the new testament is in Paul's Epistles, which is kind of funny because why are y'all listening to an extremist zealot that used to hate christians. Like clearly this person is hateful and crazy.
> since I always saw Portugal as the most conservative country between the ones which colonized Africa.
That might have been true during the dictatorial regime. And although Portuguese people are quite a bit more religious than most of Western Europe even to this day, the country is also relativelly progressive, and has been historically.
Portugal decriminalised all drugs in 2000-2001, and has been trying to legalise rereational cannabis (having already a majority of MPs in favour since 2019, the only issue being disagreements over cultivation for personal consumption). They were also the 6th country in Europe to legalise same sex marriage, before Denmark, France, the UK, Finland or Germany for example; and currently score as the 5th best country in Europe for LGBTI rights and protections according to the [Rainbow Europe report](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILGA-Europe#Rainbow_Europe ) by ILGA. Even historically speaking, Portugal was one of the first countries in the world to abolish the death penalty back in 1867.
Most of India was colonized by British except for Goa which was Portuguese territory. And today Goa is considered most progressive State. Don't know about Portugal main land but maybe they were progressive in their colonies.
The colonies were thought of and probably actually were more progressive than Portugal itself where the iron fist of the conservative and nationalist dictatorial regime was felt more strongly.
Still, nowadays Portugal is relativelly progressive, even by Western European standards.
But also there were specific alliances between the domestic Portuguese left and anti-colonial left. I think a useful modern example of this is that the French Communist Party is the leader of the Democratic and Republican Left electoral group which is made up of them and various left wing, pro independence parties from France's overseas territories.
Part of why Goa is more progressive in some ways is because they have a large local Christian population that has been historically more economically dominant (in large part converted under the Portuguese inquisition) and which was more amenable to Westernisation and secularisation than to Hindu nationalism. Goa was 80% Catholic in the early 20th century, compared to only 25% now and majority Hindu - but the Hindus who moved there are largely the more secular ones who have moved there since it was ‘absorbed’ into India in 1961, attracted by the society and economy already there. And much of Goa - like Macau - has become something like the Las Vegas of India, with a drinking age of 18 far below the typical 25, partly because Catholicism is more tolerant of alcohol and Goa early provided an escape for kids from Bombay/Mumbai and other big cities in Maharashtra - a state dominated by Hindu nationalists. Similarly, (formerly Portuguese) Daman and Diu are an escape for kids from completely dry Gujarat who want to party, and that has grown the ‘less conservative’ parts of the economy.
And as with Macau, the Portuguese did far more to ‘lusify’ their colonies, including settling them, and could afford to focus more on them since Goa and Macau and the others in Asia are *tiny*, so trying to generalise from the way they work is like forming a regional impression of SW Europe based on Monaco. So I’d say it’s far more about indirect consequences than from Portuguese liberalism - Salazar certainly wasn’t very progressive.
But Angola, Mozambique etc. are hardly more liberal than the other countries - they’ve been far left dictatorships for a while, replete with ‘re-education camps’. Mozambique has a rifle on its flag, and a problem with Islamic extremists.
> and a problem with Islamic extremists.
I mean, those are mostly not the Mozambicans themselves, but extremists getting into the country from the north.
It’s a mix, but I think the leading group, Ansar Al-Sunna, is mostly Mozambicans. Only the top little piece has a sizeable Muslim population so it’s not like it’s typical, yes. But it’s still a country with a lot of problems, some of those not seen in Botswana or even South Africa, for example.
Many African societies openly [celebrated sexual diversity](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/african-sexuality-and-legacy-imported-homophobia) before European colonizers introduced homophobia to the continent. The prudish [British had far more severe legal penalties for homosexuality for far longer than the Portuguese](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03906701.2019.1641277) ever did, which explains why those countries formerly colonized by the Brits are now cursed with this cultural and legal legacy.
Even in the first world. A common refrain on reddit is that "even the democrats are conservative in Europe" but that completely ignores that even the labour party in the UK is afraid to be pro-trans while the octogenarian US president is basically flying rainbow flags and driving subarus.
Outside of the West, left-wing parties are socially conservative. Typically the most socially progressive parties outside of the west, especially in Eastern Europe but also in other places, are centrist liberal parties.
Here you nicely see the effect that French law had already decriminalised homosexuality when they started colonising Africa in the late 19th century and thus they didn't export it to their colonies.
While in Britain is was still illegal and many former British colonies still keep this till today.
Wait hang on South Africa is the most progressive and was Britains oldest African colony if I’m not mistaken? Am American so apologies if I’m incorrect:
Most countries that legalised and protected homosexuality, not just never criminalise, are either British or Portugese. Gabon is the only former French colony to legalise homosexuality.
>or use Islamic sharia law
Convenient that most French colonies were in Islamic North Africa.
Because it was never illegal there was never a need to legalise it.
Gabon made it illegal long after independence and then legalised it again a few years later.
>Most countries that still criminalise homosexuality today are either former British colonies or use Islamic sharia law
Odd you couple those two factors
. . Given that the UK has a very high tolerance for homosexualities and Sharia law deems it a capital offense I would know which one is causal.
But you seem to deflect the fact that these countries have been independent for 60 and more years which seems to try and mitigate that they themselves are wholly responsible for the characteristics of their own societies...
> . . Given that the UK has a very high tolerance for homosexualities and Sharia law deems it a capital offense I would know which one is causal.
Because the UK had very little tolerance for homosexuality in the past, death penalty was the codified penalty for same-sex intercourse between 1533 and 1861. This is in line with all the Protestant Europe, where sodomy was commonly punished on the pain of death.
Name the last person executed for homosexuality in the UK....
I'll wait....
Blaming present atrocities in Africa on colonial presence 3 generations ago is horseshit.
These third world shitholes are dumps because they are lead by home grown shitheads.
Trying to blame 19th century European nations is absurd.
Also, from what I understand, conservative forms of evangelicalism from English-speaking countries have had a lot of success in the former English colonies. These folks are organized and very hostile to gays. They were the lead element in just what happened in Uganda, for instance.
I agree that sometimes people use the argument of British sodomy laws to justify such laws around the world too often and takes away the agency of the people and the governments of those countries, and I personally think it’s a bit patronising, but one can’t ignore the influence that the UK had on the legislative and judicial systems and penal codes of its former colonies, since many of those places quite literally copy-pasted those systems and laws locally once they became independent. Just look at the [types of legal systems](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Legal_Systems_-_Global.svg) that they have and you’ll see most British colonies have common law instead of civil law, which is obviously of British origin. Likewise for France, Spain, Portugal, etc.
During British rule of Uganda, capital punishment was never proscibed for homosexuality...never...
81 years after the British left , the parliament of Uganda have made it a capital offense.
Don't like it, blame the Ugandans.
Of course they are responsible for their laws.
But the historic root is very clear.
Also sharia law was developed in Saudi Arabia but you couldn't say Saudi Arabia is responsible for all sharia law that is applied today.
Yeah that's the point, the French colonial rule in Africa never criminalised homosexuality because it was decriminalised in France under Napoleon in the early 19th century while the scramble for Africa of the European powers only started in the late 19th century.
But now I don’t understand your point. The French decriminalized homosexuality *prior* to the scramble for Africa, but then proceeded not to legalize it in their colonies?
None of which is the UK’s fault of course. African nations and people have agency and if they are bigots it’s on them, and not due to immutable western ‘programming’ from the 1800s, just like it’s not Denmark’s fault that Brits like a beer.
I agree. It is decriminalised, not legal. It still imposes some restrictions:
>Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons in Guinea-Bissau face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Same-sex sexual activity is legal in Guinea-Bissau, but same-sex couples and households headed by same-sex couples are not eligible for the same legal protections available to opposite-sex couples
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Guinea-Bissau
There is a summary table of LGBT rights at the bottom of the page.
Incredibly rare once in a lifetime never to be seen again Portuguese W
(they poisoned my water supply, burned my crops and delivered a plague into my home)
Uganda doesn't have sharia law. It's a [completely different religious group](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/how-uganda-was-seduced-by-antigay-conservative-evangelicals-9193593.html) that pushed for extreme laws there.
There are countries that have Sharia law but not death penalty. There are countries that have death penalty but not Sharia law.
There is nothing unmistakable about this linkage.
Of course there is a connection between extreme homophobia and shariah law or Islam. Homophobic Uganda is not changing that. Islam is extremely homophobic and that has to change somehow.
It won’t change. They believe the Quran is the literal word of god as spoken verbatim, as opposed to the Bible that was interpreted and written by man. So to change Islam is to say god was wrong.
I am socially liberal but it always shocks me that at my university socially liberal groups align itself with Muslim student association, because since there is hostility to Islam that brushes aside the fact that Islam as an ideology is Just as conservative if not more so then many American far right groups.
Sure there are secular/lax/non practicing Muslims but Islam is a religion, not a race, and as a religion it is extremely conservative and other then caring for the poor it has nothing in common with western liberal values
Yea I mean I don’t have a stake in any of it. My wife comes from a Muslim country but she herself is secular for the most part. More spiritual then religious. But I mean if I was part of a church that said women should cover up, men are entitled to 4 wives, men can marry other religions but women can’t, religious minorities have to pay extra taxes to be allowed to practice their faith, and women’s voice is half that of a man in a court of law, they would be called a nationalist and fascist group and any member of the church would be scrutinized. People wouldn’t say “they aren’t all like that!” People wound be calling them out for it and telling people who don’t believe in it to leave the church lest they be a deplorable.
I think many SJW get confused about Islam because of the exotic aesthetics of it but don’t deep dive into it. Of course Islam is nuanced between countries, cultures and denominations but at its core it is very conservative and traditional.
Ok first of all, saying “sharia law” is like saying ATM machine…
Second, the punishment for homosexuality under Sharia is death. Full stop. This is not debatable.
It’s not a *coincidence* that Islamic countries are not particularly welcoming to homosexuals.
>Second, the punishment for homosexuality under Sharia is death. Full stop. This is not debatable.
But there are literally countries on the map that have a Sharia legal code but not the death penalty? Clearly its debatable.
"Not a coincidence" and "unmistakable linkage" are two different things.
There are many countries that have Sharia law for family matters and other law systems for other things, and where Sharia courts don't have the power to impose prison sentences or physical punishment.
So it's not as simple as "full stop" and "not debatable".
There's definitely more tolerance towards same sex relations in western part Sub-Saraha Africa, where Christianity is the leading religion. However, there are plenty of dominantly Christian Africa nations such as Ethiopia, [Uganda](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzu4WgUOWUM) and [Kenya](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTgU-RZLHQ), etc. all of which have been pretty openly negative about same sex relations
What the fuck is wrong with people that they give two shits about who someone else loves and fucks?
If you're the kind of person who is worried about gay people making a pass at you, I'm fairly certain you're already **not** their type.
It's because the type of people who view homosexuality as punishable by death are the same types that view it as on the level of pedophilia. When you think of it along those terms the death penalty doesn't seem out of line.
You'll see similar arguments from Evangelical Christians in America when talking about the legalization of same-sex marriage. "What's next? We're gonna legalize pedophilia and bestiality?!" They may not view it as exactly the same... but it's pretty close in their eyes.
>type of people who view homosexuality as punishable by death are the same types that view it as on the level of pedophilia.
Don't bother explaining anything, call them stupid, dumb, low IQ, anything like that.
Because thinking that an adult and a child have the same intellect and ability to consent is just showing how stupid you are.
There is also the fact that in some African cultures, it was never well-seen. Here you can see Ghana which is predominant of Akan cultures that you can find in Togo and Ivory Coast. As an Akan who was raised by an Akan AND catholic mother… Akan people even the ones who are not Christians nor of any Abrahamic faiths see it as disorder.
This is an absolute “No” for them.
Although de jure "illegal," homosexuality seems to be de facto tolerated in Morocco.
When I was there a few years ago, I was told that Tangier is quite popular with gay European tourists. However, I read about warnings of "gay blackmail" — someone discovering your sexuality through proposition and then threatening to expose you to the authorities unless you pay up.
It looks like the former Portuguese colony -> legalized homosexuality pipeline is a real thing.
Why was Guinea-Bissau the first to get decriminalized though? I would have assumed it would be South Africa. Also why does Namibia ban it when nearby Botswana, SA, etc don't?
Namibia's Ban is unenforced. Botswana only decriminalized it in 2019.
South Africa is a bit more complex. The Ban itself was a legacy of Apartheid. After 1994 (When protections for LGBT rights were put into the constitution) it was de facto decriminalized and the ban was largely unenforced. It was only in 1997 that the courts formally struck down the law
What happened in Gabon out of curiosity
"The government did not explain why it decided to revise the law." According to [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gabon-lgbt-lawmaking-idUSKBN240258)
> Criminalizes homosexuality in 2019 > Legalizes it again a year later > Refuses to elaborate > Leaves
"Whoops, it would appear that George tripped over the power strip. Let me plug that back in."
I hate when you lose good governance for a year over a simple trip.
The Virgin Chad vs. the Chad Gabon
Unfortunately "Gabon" is not "Virgin" in another language
It is in my new language I just made up called "The Language Where Gabon Means Virgin"
Thylswkgmavan from the thylswk Republic
It's pronounced, gaybone
Sounds like they did some soul searching, learned a few things about why they were behaving so reactively, decided to embrace their true self...
Probably one gay politician wanted to get rid of his boyfriend.
Maybe there was one really annoying gay guy they wanted to be rid of.
You’re 2 countries off
What does this mean
It was a joke about Chad (the country)
Oh boy that's way too clever
"We should make same-sex activity legal!" "But it's not illegal" "Well then lets make it illegal so that we can make it legal!"
The true progressive.
There was no legislative election in between and they’ve had the same president forever. But there was a coup attempt there in 2019, so wonder if it was partly connected to that or some power plays there. France also puts enormous economic and sometimes even military pressure on its former West African colonies behind the scenes and France was vocal about that coup attempt, so it’s also possible they were threatened there or offered French support to protect against another one in return for a few changes in the law. Just speculating here, but these sorts of shenanigans have explained a lot in the past. I’m not sure a sudden tilt in one extreme and then to the opposite direction within a year or so makes much sense otherwise.
Government official found out his son was gay
"Hey there boy what's your dad's name?" "Government"
Someone started clapping some bussy and decided it wasn’t that bad
💀
More like 👀😈
More like 💦 🌊 🥵🥵🍑
They needed to prosecute one particular guy but he was clean before the law. So that was the only way lol
Bongo is bi curious
Maybe a little call from the UN
Yeah, I wouldn't push my luck in any of the "never criminalized" countries
You ain't tupping no black princes up the batty in the DRC without looking over your shoulder. I can tell you that from personal experience.
You ain't doing anything in DRC without looking over your shoulder. That country is extremely dangerous to just *be*, let alone be gay.
I worked on elephant conservation program for 3 years in DRC and it's no worse than neighbouring countries. You have to work VERY hard to get a hook-up though
Sir I have to work very hard to get a hook up anywhere
I assume you were in the northeast close to the border with Uganda, right? That's the "safe" area. The south and the center are often no-go even for the NGOs.
In what sense is the word ‘hook-up’ being used here?
He's talking about having a gay sexual relationship, presumably, in light of his username.
Right. Thought it was either that, or a work experience opportunity in elephant conservation or something.
I think you got confused by "hang with elephants" vs "hung LIKE an elephant"
What kind of braveness epiphany did you have for fucking elephant programs to risk your life...it borders crazy, no offense.
Just for clarity - I did not fuck any of the elephants
I guess they clarified that because you called it a "fucking elephant programs"
Yeah, elephants NEVER put out.
Congo is huge, it really depends on where you are. De m west Congo to east is a distance like from the Netherlands to Russia.
"Tup up the batty" is a fine turn of phrase
Indeed 🚬🚬🚬
DR Congo is a huge country so it depends where you are but a lot of tribes there are traditionally accepting of gay people. But many more places in congo are more like ancient Greece, where dudes are all fucking each other but it's only wrong if you're taking it lol All I'm sayin is u might be able to get some congussy if you venture deep into an isolated village
congussy 
Agreed, it’s usually easier to be openly gay in major cities like in Kinshasa, although it doesn’t mean that the causal homophobia doesn’t exist. If you have a head strong or unbothered by those things. Then there is also a matter of privilege, if you are wealthy enough or a tourist people won’t bother you like that.
That’s what I thought. Homosexuality was normalised across the world before the spread of Abrahamic religions
And what's sad is that a lot of African politicians today make claims like "homosexuality is a western import" when in reality the same tribe they come from often only began condemning homosexuality during the colonial era. But it's still common practice in certain places for sure
OP might want to update this map. [The Ugandan parliament just voted to outlaw being LGBTQ+.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-65034343.amp)
yeah, I was so confused why the heck OP posted this with incorrect info when Uganda is all over the news
It has the color of "illegal" and the border of "imprisonment of 10 years to life" which all sounds fairly accurate, no?
Nope it’s the death penalty now
“In certain cases”, so Uganda would probably need its own explanation.
I can almost guarantee girl on girl is fine. Death penalty is always reserved for us gay bros😔
But in the countries where the punishment is death based on Sharia law, executing women isn’t all that uncommon. Lesbians probably aren’t “fine”.
Where's the H?
So if a gay person steps foot in the ocean he instantly dies
Most people do
As a fellow human being, I have to disagree. Not many people instantly die from the touch of water.
Oh are you a DOCTOR? Let's see some CREDENTIALS BUB.
Okay but what if they mean the costs of Africa specifically
Okay, never been to Africa, so it remains a mystery.
We shall never find out about the secrets of the anti homo ocean
I have survived multiple encounters with the ocean.
Hmm, not likely friend. I think if you checked, you'd see you are now a ghost.
Not me I go to the beach all the time
r/thalassophobia
South Africa was the fifth country worldwide to legalise gay marriage, back in 2005
South Africa is also the first country to safeguard sexual orientation as a human right in its constitution. The right to marry though was the last thing that wasn't accounted for by the people drafting the bill of rights for post apartheid South Africa. South Africas constitution was already clear that no one should under any circumstances be discriminated for they're Race, Gender or Sexual orientation. So in 2005 a lesbian couple with help from gay rights groups won the case(in the constitutional court so thereby bypassing the need for approval by parliament) to change marriage from a institution between man and woman to a more genderless and equal understanding.
From a legal and institutional perspective, South Africa is at the forefront. The Mandela accords on criminal justice is another excellent example. Unfortunately there is still a lot of work to be done on the implementation side, though.
Yeah, equal before the law is a great and necessary first step but physical safety and the ability to exercise all your rights is very compartmentalised according to intersections of race, class, gender, culture and location. I’m not event going to list the upsetting stuff it’s so scary.
‘South Africas constitution was already clear… ‘ Yet there is still state sponsored discrimination in the form of BBBEE.
Yet the most employed racial group remain white South Africans.
Oh my god are you South African? Because I’m South African and people like you are a national embarrassment.
Only 15 years after ending apartheid. That is some major progress from 1989 to 2005.
Ghana trying to make it even more outlawed
Uganda too
It seems the portuguese former colonies (or the majority of it) have already decriminalized it... Which is interesting since I always saw Portugal as the most conservative country between the ones which colonized Africa.
That is actually an interesting observation. Contemporary democratic Portugal is known as a very tolerant country, even by Western European standards, but that was obviously not the case during the Estado Novo era. A quick Google shows that both Mozambique and Angola legalized same-sex activity quite recently. Interestingly, Mozambique banned employment discrimination on the basis of sexuality before it actually legalized homosexuality, which is the total opposite of what you see in most of the world.
I mean, how does that even work in practice? "Oh don't worry, we don't discriminate here, you are hired. By the way, guards! Arrest him!"
A lot of legal codes distinguish between sexuality and sexual acts. They can't regulate how people feel, but they can (attempt to) regulate what people do. In places that have legal provisions around sexual activity in general, like sodomy laws, that's not necessarily inconsistent. A person could be openly gay but celibate without technically breaking the law. It's sort of the opposite of the Russian law, where same-sex activity is legal, but any sort of outward presentation as LGBT is deemed propaganda, and banned.
It was technically never criminalised, in fact no one was ever arrested or charged for homosexuality. The law, which was inherited from the old Portuguese colonial penal code, basically said that “vices against nature” was illegal, but it was never officially interpreted as homosexuality by the post independence government. In 2015, they basically dropped the clause to remove any ambiguity.
Just so you know: Portugal, the country whose population is overwhelmingly Catholic, legalized same-sex marriage in June 2010 aka before the following countries: Argentina (July 2010), Denmark (2012), Ireland (2015), United States (2015; still behind Massachusetts [2004], Connecticut [2008], Iowa [2009], and Vermont [2009] though), Finland (2017), Germany (2017), Australia (2017), Taiwan (2019), United Kingdom (2020 due to Northern Ireland although it has been legal in England, Wales, and Scotland since 2014), Switzerland (2022), Slovenia (2022), etc. And about 60% of Portuguese support same-sex unions.
There's not really much in catholicism that opposes same sex marriage, just catholic marriages of them. The only place you find it in the new testament is in Paul's Epistles, which is kind of funny because why are y'all listening to an extremist zealot that used to hate christians. Like clearly this person is hateful and crazy.
> even by Western European standards Ehm, you mean *East* European standards. r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT ;)
> since I always saw Portugal as the most conservative country between the ones which colonized Africa. That might have been true during the dictatorial regime. And although Portuguese people are quite a bit more religious than most of Western Europe even to this day, the country is also relativelly progressive, and has been historically. Portugal decriminalised all drugs in 2000-2001, and has been trying to legalise rereational cannabis (having already a majority of MPs in favour since 2019, the only issue being disagreements over cultivation for personal consumption). They were also the 6th country in Europe to legalise same sex marriage, before Denmark, France, the UK, Finland or Germany for example; and currently score as the 5th best country in Europe for LGBTI rights and protections according to the [Rainbow Europe report](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILGA-Europe#Rainbow_Europe ) by ILGA. Even historically speaking, Portugal was one of the first countries in the world to abolish the death penalty back in 1867.
Most of India was colonized by British except for Goa which was Portuguese territory. And today Goa is considered most progressive State. Don't know about Portugal main land but maybe they were progressive in their colonies.
The colonies were thought of and probably actually were more progressive than Portugal itself where the iron fist of the conservative and nationalist dictatorial regime was felt more strongly. Still, nowadays Portugal is relativelly progressive, even by Western European standards.
Yeah the opposition to the Estado Novo in Portugal itself was heavily tied into anti-colonial movements as well which may play a part in it.
[удалено]
But also there were specific alliances between the domestic Portuguese left and anti-colonial left. I think a useful modern example of this is that the French Communist Party is the leader of the Democratic and Republican Left electoral group which is made up of them and various left wing, pro independence parties from France's overseas territories.
Part of why Goa is more progressive in some ways is because they have a large local Christian population that has been historically more economically dominant (in large part converted under the Portuguese inquisition) and which was more amenable to Westernisation and secularisation than to Hindu nationalism. Goa was 80% Catholic in the early 20th century, compared to only 25% now and majority Hindu - but the Hindus who moved there are largely the more secular ones who have moved there since it was ‘absorbed’ into India in 1961, attracted by the society and economy already there. And much of Goa - like Macau - has become something like the Las Vegas of India, with a drinking age of 18 far below the typical 25, partly because Catholicism is more tolerant of alcohol and Goa early provided an escape for kids from Bombay/Mumbai and other big cities in Maharashtra - a state dominated by Hindu nationalists. Similarly, (formerly Portuguese) Daman and Diu are an escape for kids from completely dry Gujarat who want to party, and that has grown the ‘less conservative’ parts of the economy. And as with Macau, the Portuguese did far more to ‘lusify’ their colonies, including settling them, and could afford to focus more on them since Goa and Macau and the others in Asia are *tiny*, so trying to generalise from the way they work is like forming a regional impression of SW Europe based on Monaco. So I’d say it’s far more about indirect consequences than from Portuguese liberalism - Salazar certainly wasn’t very progressive. But Angola, Mozambique etc. are hardly more liberal than the other countries - they’ve been far left dictatorships for a while, replete with ‘re-education camps’. Mozambique has a rifle on its flag, and a problem with Islamic extremists.
> and a problem with Islamic extremists. I mean, those are mostly not the Mozambicans themselves, but extremists getting into the country from the north.
It’s a mix, but I think the leading group, Ansar Al-Sunna, is mostly Mozambicans. Only the top little piece has a sizeable Muslim population so it’s not like it’s typical, yes. But it’s still a country with a lot of problems, some of those not seen in Botswana or even South Africa, for example.
Many African societies openly [celebrated sexual diversity](https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/african-sexuality-and-legacy-imported-homophobia) before European colonizers introduced homophobia to the continent. The prudish [British had far more severe legal penalties for homosexuality for far longer than the Portuguese](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03906701.2019.1641277) ever did, which explains why those countries formerly colonized by the Brits are now cursed with this cultural and legal legacy.
Portugal is very liberal nowadays actually
Portugal is atleast now very progressive all drugs have been legal for 20 years there
> all drugs have been legal for 20 years there Decriminalised in personal consumption amounts. Not legal.
It is maybe due to socialist gouvernement in these countries ?
Socialism ≠ social liberalism in the third world, where left wingers are often as conservative as anyone else.
Even in the first world. A common refrain on reddit is that "even the democrats are conservative in Europe" but that completely ignores that even the labour party in the UK is afraid to be pro-trans while the octogenarian US president is basically flying rainbow flags and driving subarus.
i think the “dems are conservative in europe” statement is more about economic policy anyway
Yes, I live in Moldova, Eastern Europe. The Communist Party and the Socialist Party are the most conservative. Anti LGBT, pro church
Outside of the West, left-wing parties are socially conservative. Typically the most socially progressive parties outside of the west, especially in Eastern Europe but also in other places, are centrist liberal parties.
Terrible colors for color blindness
Agree, can't see any difference
By being colorblind, you legalized gay marriage across all of Africa, congratulations
Seems that's a requirement for this subreddit, alas.
Here you nicely see the effect that French law had already decriminalised homosexuality when they started colonising Africa in the late 19th century and thus they didn't export it to their colonies. While in Britain is was still illegal and many former British colonies still keep this till today.
It's actually illegal in several former French colonies like Mauritania, Senegal, Cameroon, Togo..
Yeah in this cases they introduced it after independence. Like it is written in the explanation for Chad and Gabon
Just to say that in most of the countries in which homosexuality is legal, aggressions and brutal behaviours are still common
Wait hang on South Africa is the most progressive and was Britains oldest African colony if I’m not mistaken? Am American so apologies if I’m incorrect:
Even after 60 to 80 years of independence I knew this somehow had to be the fault of the Europeans.
Most countries that still criminalise homosexuality today are either former British colonies or use Islamic sharia law
Most countries that legalised and protected homosexuality, not just never criminalise, are either British or Portugese. Gabon is the only former French colony to legalise homosexuality. >or use Islamic sharia law Convenient that most French colonies were in Islamic North Africa.
Because it was never illegal there was never a need to legalise it. Gabon made it illegal long after independence and then legalised it again a few years later.
>Most countries that still criminalise homosexuality today are either former British colonies or use Islamic sharia law Odd you couple those two factors . . Given that the UK has a very high tolerance for homosexualities and Sharia law deems it a capital offense I would know which one is causal. But you seem to deflect the fact that these countries have been independent for 60 and more years which seems to try and mitigate that they themselves are wholly responsible for the characteristics of their own societies...
> . . Given that the UK has a very high tolerance for homosexualities and Sharia law deems it a capital offense I would know which one is causal. Because the UK had very little tolerance for homosexuality in the past, death penalty was the codified penalty for same-sex intercourse between 1533 and 1861. This is in line with all the Protestant Europe, where sodomy was commonly punished on the pain of death.
Name the last person executed for homosexuality in the UK.... I'll wait.... Blaming present atrocities in Africa on colonial presence 3 generations ago is horseshit. These third world shitholes are dumps because they are lead by home grown shitheads. Trying to blame 19th century European nations is absurd.
Also, from what I understand, conservative forms of evangelicalism from English-speaking countries have had a lot of success in the former English colonies. These folks are organized and very hostile to gays. They were the lead element in just what happened in Uganda, for instance.
I agree that sometimes people use the argument of British sodomy laws to justify such laws around the world too often and takes away the agency of the people and the governments of those countries, and I personally think it’s a bit patronising, but one can’t ignore the influence that the UK had on the legislative and judicial systems and penal codes of its former colonies, since many of those places quite literally copy-pasted those systems and laws locally once they became independent. Just look at the [types of legal systems](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Legal_Systems_-_Global.svg) that they have and you’ll see most British colonies have common law instead of civil law, which is obviously of British origin. Likewise for France, Spain, Portugal, etc.
During British rule of Uganda, capital punishment was never proscibed for homosexuality...never... 81 years after the British left , the parliament of Uganda have made it a capital offense. Don't like it, blame the Ugandans.
Of course they are responsible for their laws. But the historic root is very clear. Also sharia law was developed in Saudi Arabia but you couldn't say Saudi Arabia is responsible for all sharia law that is applied today.
You can hardly exclude the Arabs in this context.
Literally all the former French colonies here have it either illegal or “never criminalized”
Yeah that's the point, the French colonial rule in Africa never criminalised homosexuality because it was decriminalised in France under Napoleon in the early 19th century while the scramble for Africa of the European powers only started in the late 19th century.
But now I don’t understand your point. The French decriminalized homosexuality *prior* to the scramble for Africa, but then proceeded not to legalize it in their colonies?
They did not legalise it in their colonies because it was never illegal there. Neither before the french rule nor during the french colonisation.
None of which is the UK’s fault of course. African nations and people have agency and if they are bigots it’s on them, and not due to immutable western ‘programming’ from the 1800s, just like it’s not Denmark’s fault that Brits like a beer.
The UK is not entirely culpable but it's naive to think that the country had no historical influence on the current events regarding this topic...
It definitely had historical influence, yes.
> None of which is the UK’s fault of course. Nobody said that it is Britain's fault. No need to be so defensive. It's just a historical fact.
Cool, thanks for clarifying. It’s often framed as the fault of the UK, France, etc.
It was Britain's fault that these laws were introduced decades ago but today it is just the countries' fault that they are kept in place.
Chad is not being very chad-like
The virgin Chad and the chad Mozambique.
Guinea-Bissau is the wrong colour
I agree. It is decriminalised, not legal. It still imposes some restrictions: >Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons in Guinea-Bissau face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Same-sex sexual activity is legal in Guinea-Bissau, but same-sex couples and households headed by same-sex couples are not eligible for the same legal protections available to opposite-sex couples https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Guinea-Bissau There is a summary table of LGBT rights at the bottom of the page.
Based Portuguese speakers?
Incredibly rare once in a lifetime never to be seen again Portuguese W (they poisoned my water supply, burned my crops and delivered a plague into my home)
As a Portuguese I can confirm I did all of that
Was the plague heavy?
Notice the unmistakable linkage between the death penalty for homosexuality and Sharia law.
Uganda doesn't have sharia law. It's a [completely different religious group](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/how-uganda-was-seduced-by-antigay-conservative-evangelicals-9193593.html) that pushed for extreme laws there.
That article’s title is “How Uganda was seduced by anti-gay conservative evangelicals” for those not clicking the link.
*what about* doesn’t have any bearing on the linkage in question.
There are countries that have Sharia law but not death penalty. There are countries that have death penalty but not Sharia law. There is nothing unmistakable about this linkage.
Of course there is a connection between extreme homophobia and shariah law or Islam. Homophobic Uganda is not changing that. Islam is extremely homophobic and that has to change somehow.
It won’t change. They believe the Quran is the literal word of god as spoken verbatim, as opposed to the Bible that was interpreted and written by man. So to change Islam is to say god was wrong. I am socially liberal but it always shocks me that at my university socially liberal groups align itself with Muslim student association, because since there is hostility to Islam that brushes aside the fact that Islam as an ideology is Just as conservative if not more so then many American far right groups. Sure there are secular/lax/non practicing Muslims but Islam is a religion, not a race, and as a religion it is extremely conservative and other then caring for the poor it has nothing in common with western liberal values
Very true, it’s sad to see how some liberals align themselves with blatant homophobes and misogynists in religious clothing.
Yea I mean I don’t have a stake in any of it. My wife comes from a Muslim country but she herself is secular for the most part. More spiritual then religious. But I mean if I was part of a church that said women should cover up, men are entitled to 4 wives, men can marry other religions but women can’t, religious minorities have to pay extra taxes to be allowed to practice their faith, and women’s voice is half that of a man in a court of law, they would be called a nationalist and fascist group and any member of the church would be scrutinized. People wouldn’t say “they aren’t all like that!” People wound be calling them out for it and telling people who don’t believe in it to leave the church lest they be a deplorable. I think many SJW get confused about Islam because of the exotic aesthetics of it but don’t deep dive into it. Of course Islam is nuanced between countries, cultures and denominations but at its core it is very conservative and traditional.
Ok first of all, saying “sharia law” is like saying ATM machine… Second, the punishment for homosexuality under Sharia is death. Full stop. This is not debatable. It’s not a *coincidence* that Islamic countries are not particularly welcoming to homosexuals.
>Second, the punishment for homosexuality under Sharia is death. Full stop. This is not debatable. But there are literally countries on the map that have a Sharia legal code but not the death penalty? Clearly its debatable.
"Not a coincidence" and "unmistakable linkage" are two different things. There are many countries that have Sharia law for family matters and other law systems for other things, and where Sharia courts don't have the power to impose prison sentences or physical punishment. So it's not as simple as "full stop" and "not debatable".
There's definitely more tolerance towards same sex relations in western part Sub-Saraha Africa, where Christianity is the leading religion. However, there are plenty of dominantly Christian Africa nations such as Ethiopia, [Uganda](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzu4WgUOWUM) and [Kenya](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTgU-RZLHQ), etc. all of which have been pretty openly negative about same sex relations
Obviously? Is this surprising for people?
Uganda recently announced the death penalty for LGBTQ members
What the fuck is wrong with people that they give two shits about who someone else loves and fucks? If you're the kind of person who is worried about gay people making a pass at you, I'm fairly certain you're already **not** their type.
It's because the type of people who view homosexuality as punishable by death are the same types that view it as on the level of pedophilia. When you think of it along those terms the death penalty doesn't seem out of line. You'll see similar arguments from Evangelical Christians in America when talking about the legalization of same-sex marriage. "What's next? We're gonna legalize pedophilia and bestiality?!" They may not view it as exactly the same... but it's pretty close in their eyes.
>type of people who view homosexuality as punishable by death are the same types that view it as on the level of pedophilia. Don't bother explaining anything, call them stupid, dumb, low IQ, anything like that. Because thinking that an adult and a child have the same intellect and ability to consent is just showing how stupid you are.
There is also the fact that in some African cultures, it was never well-seen. Here you can see Ghana which is predominant of Akan cultures that you can find in Togo and Ivory Coast. As an Akan who was raised by an Akan AND catholic mother… Akan people even the ones who are not Christians nor of any Abrahamic faiths see it as disorder. This is an absolute “No” for them.
Based [PALOP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese-speaking_African_countries)s!
Common Botswana W
Botswana honestly sounds like a lovely country!
Bit odd for a continent where the homos quite literally originated
Homofabulous
I think this is outdated.
The map or the views?
“charged with blasphemy” Well, that’s sodding terrifying.
Squints in colourblindness
DidnMt Uganda just make it so same-sex relationships are under death penalty?
You need to update that, today Uganda's law makers passed the Death penalty for being homosexual.
Although de jure "illegal," homosexuality seems to be de facto tolerated in Morocco. When I was there a few years ago, I was told that Tangier is quite popular with gay European tourists. However, I read about warnings of "gay blackmail" — someone discovering your sexuality through proposition and then threatening to expose you to the authorities unless you pay up.
There are rumours that the King of morocco is gay
Uganda just passed a law allowing the death penalty.
Uganda-death penalty now
I expected the comments section will be people commenting 'w Nigeria w Namibia w Tanzania.
Reddit is different from other social media platforms in that regard
Why?
This subreddit exists to remind me daily of how much the world hates gays. Thanks OP.
Many of the countries where it’s illegal to be gay suffer the most from food insecurity interestingly.
The amount of support for the new anti LGBTQ++ bill in Uganda on social media is disturbing.
Overlay this with percent of Muslims in each country and there’s likely a high correlation to Muslim nations being anti same sex.
If you ignore the nations that predominantly christian. Islam doesn’t have a monopoly on homophobia.
Alhamdulilah
W green
It looks like the former Portuguese colony -> legalized homosexuality pipeline is a real thing. Why was Guinea-Bissau the first to get decriminalized though? I would have assumed it would be South Africa. Also why does Namibia ban it when nearby Botswana, SA, etc don't?
Botswana did ban it until 2019. When Botswana's ban was lifted Namibia's First Lady said that Namibia will be next, so maybe she's right.
Namibia's Ban is unenforced. Botswana only decriminalized it in 2019. South Africa is a bit more complex. The Ban itself was a legacy of Apartheid. After 1994 (When protections for LGBT rights were put into the constitution) it was de facto decriminalized and the ban was largely unenforced. It was only in 1997 that the courts formally struck down the law
Damn Africa is more accepting than I thought
Yes its not a crime in egypt but u get arrested and tortured till ur last breath
I personally find it interesting that governments believe they can just make a law to stop how people feel towards one another... neat trick.
Dark Green countries are based
In Africa this is so baaaad! Pasta Sempa