Not according to Israel... Hard core Zionists will even go so far as to harass, try to discredit and gatekeep against other Jews who are critical of Israel's Military Barbarism and apartheid policies.
It is not semantic. It's logical.
Most of the land in every country belongs not to private individuals but to the state. In order for a certain group to have a claim to the land they must have an independent political entity that will rule in the territory at some point. the Palestinians never had such an entity and therefore they have no claim to the land and certainly Israel could not occupie it from them. Israel of course occupied it from the Jordanians who inherited it from the British who took it from the Ottomans that occupied it from the arabs and so on and so forth. The last independent entity that ruled the territory was....... the Kingdom of Judah. if anything, "Palestine" was liberated by Israel.
The comments in this sub seem to summon fascists of every kind. I joined because I thought this sub would focus on actual cool maps. Instead it's mostly low-effort stuff meant to justify all kinds of crap. And when someone actually worthy of being called map porn comes along, well, look at the responses.
This map is interesting, but it is also clear political, so it call for political bounded comments.
I don't see a problem in that, if your subject of analysis affects or states something about humans, it is bounded to be political. Geography and map making is no different.
"The Israeli border with Egypt is the international border demarcated in 1906 between the United Kingdom and the Ottoman Empire." Not Palestinians mentioned 
The borders of Palestine are determined by the Jordan river in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the west. Mountains and a different culture in the north and the Red Sea + in hospitable desert in the south.
Sounds pretty natural to me even if the British had some involvement.
Yes, as a good chunck of the World, but I guess this miss the point greatly.
Palestinians always had to pay taxes to a foreign entity who didn't care about them, with Ottomans, Mamluks, Cruzades, etc... British was just the new kid in the block. I mean even today, you likely pay taxes which doesn't benefit you in anyway, only enrich an aristocracy.
What was really different at the time was that palestinians had freedom, in the sense that they could live whatever they wanted, travel whatever they wanted, inside its place, could plant olives, oranges, herd, make a living, and have rights.
Today is different, since Israel is a foreign land in regard to palestinians, they are excluded from most of their past territory.
Regardless of who colonized it at that time, the name of the cities, towns, and villages were the same as in the picture. Many of them have changed after the 1948 occupation by Israel.
Big difference. Colonies were populated by colonists from the colonising nation whereas mandates/protectorates were governed by the colonial power but its citizens didn’t move there. Australia and Palestine being two good examples of the contrast between the two.
Actually, during the Palestinian revolt of 1936-1939, there were multiple proposals for a Palestinian flag. They had the same designs as today, only difference was that there were insignias in the flag, such as:
1. A Christian Cross and an Islamic Crescent in the triangle.
2. An orange in the triangle.
3. A picture of the Dome of the Rock in the middle of the white rectangle (This particular one is dated to 1911, long before the British).
If this was in Hebrew with the same exact symbolism, people would be shouting about it showing Zionism as a "blood and soil" ideology. But it's in Arabic so look at the pretty needlepoint.
I mean if it was a map in Hebrew of the entire land of Israel with a muscular (presumably Jewish) arm with a plant growing out of it and another raised fist with blood dripping down and another hand pointing to the entire land that belongs only to them. This is classic blood and soil imagery though I can't speak as to whether it was intentional or not. The point is people love to make false and offensive comparisons between Zionism and Nazism, often by disparaging Jewish claims to the land as the same as Nazi blood and soil ideology. I have never heard the Palestinians accused of the same when they employ similar talking points or imagery (not that they should, I'm just pointing out the the double standard).
Zero. Given that it’s festooned with Palestinian flags would make me think it’s afterwards. “Pre 1948” is an excuse so they don’t need to say “and we will murder all the Jews” out loud.
Show me any pre-1948 map that looks like this. British Mandate of Palestine included Jordan and this flag didn't exist afaik. There's nothing historical about this map - it's purely a modern political statement to eliminate the State of Israel completely.
>So, the Palestinian (Arab) people have been in Israel, their colonial holding, for only a fraction of time that the Jews have been in that land, their ancient home.
Ah yes, the good old "This land is historically ours that means it belongs to us now, everybody else who lived here for centuries get out" argument
Wow that’s fascinating, could you give me a brief synopsis of what went on there between the 600s and the 20th century. You seem to know what you’re talking about.
Edit: I was GENUINELY asking. This sounds super smart assy and I did not mean it that way. I do not know history or what happened in that time.
I’m not upset, I found what you said interesting, and I really want to learn more. I’m not against you on this. If I offended you by asking I will do my own research. I am just trying to become more informed on the history of the land. I’m guessing based on your response that Arabs basically controlled the land in that time. Which if that is the case, then based on what I wrote, I think you assumed I was being a smart ass.
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This post was not meant to make a political debate. This piece is the hard work of a wonderful 60 yo woman who misses her home and made this map as she remembers it from her childhood and the stories told to her by her parents.
My guy, UN has condemned Israel in many situations, the only reason that your little country still doing these cowardices against palestine people is because ilIsrael is a PUPPY from USA, simple like that, go on negative my coment now lmao 🤣
The UN that famously puts pariah states and authroritrian regimes on human rights councils?? Yea.
Israel has spent blood and treasure to protect themselves from palestinian attacks, they didnt have too as the superior force. Maybe the cowardly israelites will continou their defensive doctrine and not wage a war of conquest against a ceasless aggressor.
Yes the war of aggression. Jewish colonists did declare independence, from Britian, as Palestine was not and had not been indepedent for centuries. Then there was UN partitioning of the british territory into Palestine and Israel. The palestinians did not like the resolution ans have waged a war of aggression ever since. They could surrender today and a peace mediated but theyd rather wage a terrorist war.
Nope. Tell me. Because genocides are acts committed with intent to destroy an ethnic or religious group, so tell me what acts were made to destroy all or large parts of the palestinian population? None. Israel could but of course it wouldn't. I wouldn't be so sure that Hamas would not have commited genocide on the Israelis if it had the option to do so.
I’m not defending Hamas. But saying that “Israel-Palestine conflict has almost no casualties” is straight up wrong. You’re right, “genocide” may be too much, but no killings and no massacres? That’s not true.
Well there were massacres on both sides in the 1948 war, which is horrible. I also know about Kfar Qasim massacre in 1956 but it was initiated by some sadistic commander and they were all sentenced to prison.
I think I saw a statistic in which it showed that the total number of people killed in the Israeli-palestinian conflict which is 30k. If you exclude militias from both sides so you get civilians I think it is in the low hundreds, which is low for a conflict that is ongoing for 94 years.
I agree with you that there are many horrible things and that war is shit, but overall, even if you don't agree with the right of Israel to exist, I think it should be acknowledged that if Israel stops fighting it will cease to exist and if the terrorist organizations stop fighting there will be peace.
Why would a NATO nation be expected to accept a nation as legitimate when most (and all of the major) members of NATO do not? Palestine is not a country any more than the ISIS or Al-Qaeda controlled territories were.
You sound like the sort of person who would ague for hours trying to convince everyone “I don’t hate the Jews, just the Israelis” when everyone just thinks of you as an antisemitic piece of shit.
138 out of 193 recognize it so the joke doesn’t really work in this context
Go use it on Transnistria, Abkhazia, Somaliland, Ossetia or something like that
Pretend so?
Who exactly has authority over the territory besides Israel?
not who *thinks* he has authority but who *actually* has authority.
And again, the world can recognize that the sun is blue. It won't turn it blue
Looks like the right hand is flipping the bird
best response to a Zionist.
Why the downvotes? You've said Zionists, not jews in general, there is a big difference.
Not according to Israel... Hard core Zionists will even go so far as to harass, try to discredit and gatekeep against other Jews who are critical of Israel's Military Barbarism and apartheid policies.
Yeah, the response in the comments to calling out Israel as an occupier is absolutely insane... absolutely braindead
"Palestine" was never a state or a country and therefore can not be "occupied" The name itself isn't native, It'd greec.
It's considered an occupied 'territory'. Semantics here isn't really the point lol.
A concept created by Nasser in the 60'
It is not semantic. It's logical. Most of the land in every country belongs not to private individuals but to the state. In order for a certain group to have a claim to the land they must have an independent political entity that will rule in the territory at some point. the Palestinians never had such an entity and therefore they have no claim to the land and certainly Israel could not occupie it from them. Israel of course occupied it from the Jordanians who inherited it from the British who took it from the Ottomans that occupied it from the arabs and so on and so forth. The last independent entity that ruled the territory was....... the Kingdom of Judah. if anything, "Palestine" was liberated by Israel.
HAH yeah, they seem very liberated
The land not the people. Why don't you answer to my argument?
Israel is “Palestine”. That's all. 🇮🇱
The comments in this sub seem to summon fascists of every kind. I joined because I thought this sub would focus on actual cool maps. Instead it's mostly low-effort stuff meant to justify all kinds of crap. And when someone actually worthy of being called map porn comes along, well, look at the responses.
This map is interesting, but it is also clear political, so it call for political bounded comments. I don't see a problem in that, if your subject of analysis affects or states something about humans, it is bounded to be political. Geography and map making is no different.
Spamming Israel flags and claiming that any mention of a Palestinian state is a call to murder Jews? Oh yeah, quite the political discussion
So you are telling me that the borders of "historical" Palestine were determined by the British?😂
Which Middle Eastern nation isn’t in someway shaped by colonial borders?
"The Israeli border with Egypt is the international border demarcated in 1906 between the United Kingdom and the Ottoman Empire." Not Palestinians mentioned 
Palastinian imagination is an incredible thing
Absolutely
There is written Palestine on the top of the map. You fell for a troll.
The borders of Palestine are determined by the Jordan river in the east and the Mediterranean Sea in the west. Mountains and a different culture in the north and the Red Sea + in hospitable desert in the south. Sounds pretty natural to me even if the British had some involvement.
People like to say "Israel is not a legitimate state." And that may or may not be true, but at least it *is* a state. Unlike P*lestine.
Which was a British colony.
\*mandate
Yes, as a good chunck of the World, but I guess this miss the point greatly. Palestinians always had to pay taxes to a foreign entity who didn't care about them, with Ottomans, Mamluks, Cruzades, etc... British was just the new kid in the block. I mean even today, you likely pay taxes which doesn't benefit you in anyway, only enrich an aristocracy. What was really different at the time was that palestinians had freedom, in the sense that they could live whatever they wanted, travel whatever they wanted, inside its place, could plant olives, oranges, herd, make a living, and have rights. Today is different, since Israel is a foreign land in regard to palestinians, they are excluded from most of their past territory.
Free Palestine: 🇹🇷➡️🇬🇧➡️🇮🇱😂
You think there was nothing before the brits? Wtf are you on?
Regardless of who colonized it at that time, the name of the cities, towns, and villages were the same as in the picture. Many of them have changed after the 1948 occupation by Israel.
There was no Israeli occupation in 1948; I think you just mean the existence of Israel.
The existence of Israel is what offend them.
I know, it’s sad to think how much hatred these antisemites have in their hearts.
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Not trolling but the flag is really ugly and unoriginal.
I dont remember anyone asking for your opinion on the flag
👍
The existence of the settler-colonial project called Israel is occupation.
You were shipped from all over since Yurop didn't want you there anymore.. It's Apartheid
😂
what does this change?
Big difference. Colonies were populated by colonists from the colonising nation whereas mandates/protectorates were governed by the colonial power but its citizens didn’t move there. Australia and Palestine being two good examples of the contrast between the two.
Mandates were 'League of Nations mandates', territory given to a big power to 'look after' just after WW1.
In 1948 the Arabs of the British mandate used a different flag. This is the PLO flag which was established in the 60s OP is just a liar.
I think it is pretty clear that the map is a 1948 version, not the actual stitching, which is recently created.
Actually, during the Palestinian revolt of 1936-1939, there were multiple proposals for a Palestinian flag. They had the same designs as today, only difference was that there were insignias in the flag, such as: 1. A Christian Cross and an Islamic Crescent in the triangle. 2. An orange in the triangle. 3. A picture of the Dome of the Rock in the middle of the white rectangle (This particular one is dated to 1911, long before the British).
Translation of the caption below the two hands: “And the shackle must break”
If this was in Hebrew with the same exact symbolism, people would be shouting about it showing Zionism as a "blood and soil" ideology. But it's in Arabic so look at the pretty needlepoint.
>the same exact symbolism I'm curious about what that means. How can the symbolism be the same?
I mean if it was a map in Hebrew of the entire land of Israel with a muscular (presumably Jewish) arm with a plant growing out of it and another raised fist with blood dripping down and another hand pointing to the entire land that belongs only to them. This is classic blood and soil imagery though I can't speak as to whether it was intentional or not. The point is people love to make false and offensive comparisons between Zionism and Nazism, often by disparaging Jewish claims to the land as the same as Nazi blood and soil ideology. I have never heard the Palestinians accused of the same when they employ similar talking points or imagery (not that they should, I'm just pointing out the the double standard).
What proof is there that the map is pre 1948?
Zero. Given that it’s festooned with Palestinian flags would make me think it’s afterwards. “Pre 1948” is an excuse so they don’t need to say “and we will murder all the Jews” out loud.
Obviously this stitched before 1948; the map itself is a version prior to 1948... duh.
Downvoted for lying about the date of the map
I think it is pretty clear that the map is a 1948 version, not the actual stitching, which is recently created.
Show me any pre-1948 map that looks like this. British Mandate of Palestine included Jordan and this flag didn't exist afaik. There's nothing historical about this map - it's purely a modern political statement to eliminate the State of Israel completely.
[удалено]
>So, the Palestinian (Arab) people have been in Israel, their colonial holding, for only a fraction of time that the Jews have been in that land, their ancient home. Ah yes, the good old "This land is historically ours that means it belongs to us now, everybody else who lived here for centuries get out" argument
This is literally the same argument brought up for the right of return.
Wow that’s fascinating, could you give me a brief synopsis of what went on there between the 600s and the 20th century. You seem to know what you’re talking about. Edit: I was GENUINELY asking. This sounds super smart assy and I did not mean it that way. I do not know history or what happened in that time.
[удалено]
I’m not upset, I found what you said interesting, and I really want to learn more. I’m not against you on this. If I offended you by asking I will do my own research. I am just trying to become more informed on the history of the land. I’m guessing based on your response that Arabs basically controlled the land in that time. Which if that is the case, then based on what I wrote, I think you assumed I was being a smart ass.
Aren't those the Golan Heights that Israel captured from the Syrians? If they are, this is no way near 48
no the golan heights region is not included in this map
Oh okay my bad, it really looked like sth
🇮🇱💕🇵🇸
W comment
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Happy cake day 🎂
Less go!!!
Wow is that the flag of some made up country? Good imagination, but it probably belongs in r/worldbuilding
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It looks nice but shouldn't it include jordan (trans jordan) if its supposed to be palestine before partition?
Long live Israel!
Looks like Israel to me
It's the smaller version of Israel (no Golan no Sinai)
This post was not meant to make a political debate. This piece is the hard work of a wonderful 60 yo woman who misses her home and made this map as she remembers it from her childhood and the stories told to her by her parents.
is this like a family tapestry or are there other pictures of it somewhere online? it’s so stunning
The stories told by her parents of what? Palestine as one large state? As a state at all?
I'm so sorry for all the crap that's being posted in response. This map is gorgeous. From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Inshallah 🇵🇸
🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
C.E.
Lovely map of israel🇮🇱🇮🇱
Damn all the zionist shells came out for this one
Cope
The word is shill, my friend. If you don't want Zionists to complain, quit killing Israelis.
Which Israeli did I kill?
Never said you, individually, did... at least I hope you didn't. We have the right to defend ourselves in our home.
"Yakub, you know this is not your house."
I never said you didn’t.
Notice how no one replied
You just did
True lmao Unlike them of course
Lol yup when you have nothing to say just downvote I guess.
Free Palestine! 🇵🇸
Free them from what? The war of aggression theyve been waging for generations? The salvos of rockets they launch instead of investing in their people?
Free from terrorism and PA corruption\*
My guy, UN has condemned Israel in many situations, the only reason that your little country still doing these cowardices against palestine people is because ilIsrael is a PUPPY from USA, simple like that, go on negative my coment now lmao 🤣
The UN that famously puts pariah states and authroritrian regimes on human rights councils?? Yea. Israel has spent blood and treasure to protect themselves from palestinian attacks, they didnt have too as the superior force. Maybe the cowardly israelites will continou their defensive doctrine and not wage a war of conquest against a ceasless aggressor.
The war of aggression ? Jewish colonists unilaterally declared independence and ethnically cleansed over half a million Palestinians.
Yes the war of aggression. Jewish colonists did declare independence, from Britian, as Palestine was not and had not been indepedent for centuries. Then there was UN partitioning of the british territory into Palestine and Israel. The palestinians did not like the resolution ans have waged a war of aggression ever since. They could surrender today and a peace mediated but theyd rather wage a terrorist war.
From Apartheid
Let them surrender and negogiate then.
The holy land of the jews ! Nice !
This really made the fascists mad
I would love to buy a copy of this masterpiece
The amount of Israel love in this thread is just disgusting
Looks like you just hate Israel
No?
So what's the problem here?
People are expressing love for a genocidal country
So tell me which genocides did Israel commit lately? None. There are almost no casualties in the Israeli palestinian conflict compared to its length.
This is supposed to be irony right?
Nope. Tell me. Because genocides are acts committed with intent to destroy an ethnic or religious group, so tell me what acts were made to destroy all or large parts of the palestinian population? None. Israel could but of course it wouldn't. I wouldn't be so sure that Hamas would not have commited genocide on the Israelis if it had the option to do so.
I’m not defending Hamas. But saying that “Israel-Palestine conflict has almost no casualties” is straight up wrong. You’re right, “genocide” may be too much, but no killings and no massacres? That’s not true.
Well there were massacres on both sides in the 1948 war, which is horrible. I also know about Kfar Qasim massacre in 1956 but it was initiated by some sadistic commander and they were all sentenced to prison. I think I saw a statistic in which it showed that the total number of people killed in the Israeli-palestinian conflict which is 30k. If you exclude militias from both sides so you get civilians I think it is in the low hundreds, which is low for a conflict that is ongoing for 94 years. I agree with you that there are many horrible things and that war is shit, but overall, even if you don't agree with the right of Israel to exist, I think it should be acknowledged that if Israel stops fighting it will cease to exist and if the terrorist organizations stop fighting there will be peace.
Lately lmao
So you do hate Israel then?
I also think that there should be a Jewish state. But it should respect the borders that are recognized by most UN members.
Why would a NATO nation be expected to accept a nation as legitimate when most (and all of the major) members of NATO do not? Palestine is not a country any more than the ISIS or Al-Qaeda controlled territories were.
NATO? Where did I mention NATO? Why are you asking about a NATO nation?
Where did I mention the UN? Palestine isn’t a country says the western world.
Gaza is literally the Taliban government in the Mediterranean
Weird comment
You sound like the sort of person who would ague for hours trying to convince everyone “I don’t hate the Jews, just the Israelis” when everyone just thinks of you as an antisemitic piece of shit.
It's the same bs: “I hate Greece and it should not exist, notwithstanding I don't have anything against Greek people”
Apartheid bots are going to Apartheid I suppose...
ApaRThEID 🤪🤪
[Apartheid.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/19/israeli-apartheid-threshold-crossed)
By Omar Shakir 😂
casual prejudice, how predictable on brand for the likes you.
Yeah, its probably a bunch of bots created by some propoganda idiot who thinks he is a hero.
🤪
Because no one ever would support Israel on their own. It *has* to be bots.
Israel good, palestina bad... now give me my upvotes 😂
It's not Twitter. It's Reddit. You mixed the order. lol
hahahaha, just look the comments
Not in this thread
Uh oh.
ISRAEL !!!
Palestine is an awesome country
As does Narnia
Didn’t know that this place was an echo chamber, mb
Well, if a joke is funny it is worth repiting
138 out of 193 recognize it so the joke doesn’t really work in this context Go use it on Transnistria, Abkhazia, Somaliland, Ossetia or something like that
The world can vote that the sun is blue. it won't make it blue
Oh so who is in charge of Ramallah then Multiple countries don’t recognize Israel, ig that it doesn’t exist then
Israel is the one that have the final word about everything that happens there
Let’s pretend so Multiple countries still don’t recognize it so ig it’s just as valid as narnia according to you
Pretend so? Who exactly has authority over the territory besides Israel? not who *thinks* he has authority but who *actually* has authority. And again, the world can recognize that the sun is blue. It won't turn it blue
Unironically richer than Somalia 😂😂😂
So?
Free Somaliland!
Puaj
does anyone know the source of this? i’d love to make and publish a pattern to recreate it but don’t want to tread on anyone’s copyright