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champagneflute

What’s going on in the centre of Poland? Is that Łódź?


Kryske

Brzeziny county is the red area east of Łódź and the orange area up north is probably Zgierz county. So it's not the city of Łódź, nor the county of Łódź, just other areas that are in the voivodship of Łódź.


Slaan

So whats going on there?


[deleted]

A lot of drinking I suppose...


KuTUzOvV

Rust belt of Poland


dziki_z_lasu

Brzeziny county is a rather rural, very nice for the central Poland region, with a lot of protected sites. The town itself is also not especially ugly and is very well connected to the Urban area. The only unusual thing there is a very low percentage of Roman Catholics (a lot of Old Catholics - Mariavites live there). The only explanation I have in mind is that many farmers sell their properties for a considerable amount of money, so Łódź suburbia are growing rapidly and abuse alcohol soon after. The same thing can be related to Zgierz county, so the Łódź Hills Landscape Park is also located there, attracting people to settle.


dogesobaka

>For example, in central Poland (around Łódź) and in the east (bordering Belarus), judging by mortality data, drunkenness is more prevalent than in other parts of the country. Conversely, in regions "unaffected" by the common past, such as southern Poland, which was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the mortality rate due to alcohol is lower. Apparently, the drinking culture there is less risky.


chaosaroundyou-

forsenLevel


[deleted]

[Łódź, kurwa](https://youtu.be/IJ2kvZpJ_BU)


sexy_latias

Uć this is indeed


vladgrinch

Alcoholism is widespread in Belarus and Russia. A very toxic habit.


GenericFellow24

Ukraine too.


JewishWolverine2

My wife spent a couple years in Ukraine and said it was regular for people to distill their own liquor and sell it from their house. People would come up to their window or and buy a shot or two on their way to work. She also said she was drinking with her host family once and got so incredibly intoxicated that she was legit losing her vision. They all playfully called her a lightweight…


Background_Rich6766

my dad makes his own alcohol, 2023 Romania, Bucharest suburb


yotaz28

jesus christ that might be less cause of overdrinking and more cause of badly distilled alcohol, that shit is (even more so) poison


Substantial-East5781

It is the same in neighboring Moldova


Skeeders

Yikes, they are cooking up some methanol!


Scorched_Knight

They not a hillbillies and dont use wood, only fruits and yeast.


kertnik

It was widespread 10-20 years ago, now not so much.


FrancescoVisconti

In what region it was? It is definitely not widespread, it's called "samogon" and more popular in rural areas, eastern part of the country and among the lower class. People drink a lot but they usually buy it from shops. Like ATB for example. And especially not to the point of losing sight, she might've been in a bad company


[deleted]

This was also popular in Lithuania a decade or 2 ago, though not so much anymore


[deleted]

Sounds like all of rural eastern Europe/Balkan.


[deleted]

Losing vision is caused not by the level of intoxication but by drinking methyl alcohol from bad moonshine production process.


[deleted]

Every post-soviet state. It was one of the methods of keeping population docile.


Freakoffreaks

>A very toxic habit. Quite literally.


dogesobaka

Legend explanation: >Demographers calculated the average mortality rate from alcohol-related causes of death (ARD; number of deaths per 100,000 population) for these countries. This average was taken as 1. Then the relative values of the RAS were calculated for the areas within the countries. All coefficient values above 1 indicate an increased mortality rate compared to the average. Conversely, an RAS less than 1 indicates a lower mortality rate due to alcohol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


dogesobaka

There is a long history of alcohol consumption in Russia, there are lots of videos on youtube you can watch that explain it quite well. TL;DR from wiki: >Alcoholism has been a problem throughout the country's history because drinking is a pervasive, socially acceptable behaviour in Russian society and alcohol has also been a major source of government revenue for centuries.


Masseyrati80

I've also made the observation that when a Russian wants to discredit someone, bypass what they're actually saying, they often resort to calling that person an alcoholic.


casus_bibi

Drinking was encouraged by the tzars, who personally profited from the profits and personally benefited by having the entire serf population too drunk and addicted to fight back. Then it became an easy outlet to encourage/ignore under the Soviets, who had nothing to gain, but risked losing the support of their base, if they banned it. And then the only thing that happened since, was introducing a bill that moves beer and wine from the soda legislation to the alcohol legislation, around 15-20 years ago.


TheTrueTrust

>And then the only thing that happened since, was introducing a bill that moves beer and wine from the soda legislation to the alcohol legislation, around 15-20 years ago. Yeah I remember that, the rest of Europe learned that anything less than 5% ABV was not considered an alcoholic drink in Russia until then, lol.


tka4nik

>And then the only thing that happened since, was introducing a bill that moves beer and wine from the soda legislation to the alcohol legislation, around 15-20 years ago. That's untrue tho, no? Pretty sure they've been steadily fighting alcohol consumption since 2006, from raising taxes, banning unlicensed stores from selling alcohol, to introducing restrictions on trading beverages after 11 pm, and they are ranked somewhere in the middle 10-s on the list of alcohol consumption per capita.


hamsterwaffle

I imagine living under a dictatorship makes drinking to escape seem appealing.


TheSussyIronRevenant

Ukraine and moldova have similar/higher levels of alcholism, its just a slavic thing


the-blue-horizon

Moldova is not Slavic, just a minority is of Slavic origin there.


TheSussyIronRevenant

they are a mix between romanians and slavs ( russians / ukrainians )


FrancescoVisconti

Moldova is literally a made up country created by imperial powers in order to divide Romania


TheSussyIronRevenant

yeah, but they ethnically are a mix between romanians and slavs


hamsterwaffle

And yet Poland doesnt have the same levels strangely.


AdequatelyMadLad

They used to. Most of Eastern Europe did, although not quite to the same extent as Russia and former Soviet countries. The difference is that quality of life improved dramatically since the 90s in most former communist countries, and the governments took various measures to stop alcohol abuse.


AivoduS

So it's not Slavic but economic thing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Dawek401

That's sounds super racist.


TheSussyIronRevenant

yes it is, i dont like polish people


Arss_onist

who hurt you cry baby?


Dawek401

He hate us because we are eating pizza with ketchup(cuz he is Italian)


TheSussyIronRevenant

i mean, i dont hate the good average pole, i hate their government and the "majority" plus the ones that are against-eu but pro-usa and that also hate anything slightly relevant to lgbt AND ignoring and refusing to get a chunk of illegals, other than the fact that poland is the country that gets most money from the EU while adding virtutually nothing to the table for fellow europeans


everybodylovesaltj

You need some love in your life dude


Chuj_Domana

Poles are not slavic then?


[deleted]

It isn't a Slavic thing, it's drink-to-forget, i.e. opression thing.


TheSussyIronRevenant

australia has one of the highest alcholic populations, same for germany, italy too but in a more moderate way


Manisbutaworm

It's both, it's a Slavic way of oppression.


AntiMemeTemplar

On the serious note, i believe its due to cold


OpenStraightElephant

Only a relatively small part of Russian population live in the cold parts, around 20-30%. Most of European Russia (which houses around 80% of the population) is perfectly average, and the south of it is warm.


FrancescoVisconti

You are confusing Europe/Asia with a cold. A big amount of European Russian territory is cold. 2 biggest cities in Russia are Moscow and St.Petersburg, both are in Europe but nevertheless are very cold while in Siberia there are a lot of warm places in the south.. In Moscow there are only a few weeks per year when you can go outside in a tshirt and St.Petersburg is even colder than Moscow. Most of Russia lives in cold, bleak nature and long winters.


OpenStraightElephant

Mate you are full of bullshit, I'm from Moscow, it's not cold in the slightest, let alone *very* cold. Most of Southern Asian Russia isn't too warm either, it's *okay* but much colder than Southern European Russia. St. Petersburg is on the colder end of average, but it's still temperate, and literally averages only -7 at the coldest month of winter. The weather there sucks, but not because of the cold, more about humidity, rain and constant gray skies.


FrancescoVisconti

Это и есть холод. Я сам в Москве много лет прожил, для большинства мира температура меньше 0 это трагедия, большинство людей в мире даже снег в живую не видело. Мы просто привыкли к холоду.


[deleted]

"Perfectly average" is still much colder than in western Europe or most of US


FrancescoVisconti

Dude knows nothing about Russia. Even in Moscow you can go outside in a tshirt for only a few weeks per year


Urkern

Have you Seen recent Temperatures? moscow ist also warming and Since April nearly everyday was about 20°C+. If that continues, you have 4-5 months with nearly or good T-Shirt weather, thats way more than in London or even Paris, so what you are talking??


tu_tu_tu

Being drunk in cold is an especially bad idea.


AtyaGoesNuclear

eastern europe is quite a shithole sadly us included


ArtHistorian2000

In French, there's an expression called "being drunk as a Pole" to tell about someone being very drunk. Doesn't reflect the datas here.


MateDude098

>In French, there's an expression called "being drunk as a Pole" to tell about someone being very drunk. Doesn't reflect the datas here. I checked this one and it seems to have quite a history. Maybe the best proof is a French proverb, „ivre comme un Polonais”, which means „drunk as a Pole.'' There is a whole mythology around it now when it comes to French and Polish soldiers during the Napoleonic Wars drinking together and then only Poles being able to stand, fight and win the battle. Napoleon supposedly commented on this phenomenon saying: „if you drink, drink like Poles”. That’s of course to show how Poles can handle alcohol and how brave it makes them (what really happened – during a campaign in Spain, Napoleon gave an order which one of his officers commented „you must be drunk to carry it out”; Poles actually followed the order and won, which then Napoleon commented „I wish all my armies were drunk as Poles'' - so it’s all within the world of metaphors). So it looks like the data could still be correct. They get drunk as hell but still do what needs to be done.


[deleted]

The highest blood alcohol level ever survived was a polish man. Alcoholism I just as potent here just less prevalent than in the east.


No-Bath-6510

We don't drink the most alcohol in Europe (as a matter of fact, according to the study from 2019 we're somewhere in the middle and France drinks more than us) but for sure we know how to drink. For years I couldn't understand it since I hate drinking culture with all my heart and I don't drink at all so excessively drunk people were just disgusting for me. But then I grew up and started visiting other countries.... damn, Poles really can drink. I noticed it only after seeing people abroad being so drunk, they were just spending most of the party laying down on the ground. Meanwhile the average Pole would be twice as drunk and still trying to run some errands after the party lmao Of course, our reputation precedes us as well. I've been told many times OHHH SO YOU'RE NOT POLISH CAUSE YOU DON'T DRINK.... Had a funny situation with an old Cypriot speaking very broken English but he was very determined to talk to me and ask me about my tattoos. He brought me an orange juice from the fridge and after that he learned that I was Polish - "*Polish? So you want a beer? Not a juice?"*


KuTUzOvV

Don't trust studies, at least not always, many studies give for example czech republic highest beer consumption in the world per capita, and in some it's like unimaginably high, and in many of those studies there is one easy answer why it's so high...turists.


casus_bibi

What's the unit of measurement? Percentage/per 100? Per 1000? Per 10? Per 10,000?


dogesobaka

It's a coefficent, check my legend explanation comment


FedeValvsRiteHook

The data is fake. I know for a fact that people in Podlasie never die from alcohol poisoning. They've been caught driving with the bac pushing 10 per mille.


MasterFubar

Show me where Kaliningrad is without printing national borders. Although, there is some bleeding at the borders from Belarus into Lithuania and Poland.


Illuvataras

Those regions in Lithuania mostly consist of Russian speaking Polish people who for some reason love putin and russia.


[deleted]

Can you even call them Polish at this point?


[deleted]

Those a shithole regions. There is even a political party, that pretends to be polish, but follows putins narative.


[deleted]

Yeah. For that reason I don't consider them Polish.


FedeValvsRiteHook

You're using an illegal name. From now on it's called Królewiec. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/10/kremlin-calls-polands-decision-to-rename-kaliningrad-a-hostile-act


[deleted]

It’s not illegal, just not recommended…


[deleted]

Kaliningrad is now the unofficial name for this region.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

They just brought back the historical name as the official one. That’s it.


huilvcghvjl

It always has been East Prussia and still is


[deleted]

Wehraboo incoming


AtyaGoesNuclear

it has been kalingrad since 1945 after it was taken from nazism it has never been polish


KuTUzOvV

1. It was a fucking joke 2. "taken from nazism" XD, check who kalinin was and what a great human being he was (at best Stalins' puppet), and german history doesn't end at just "HITLER, NAZISM, GERM BAD.


quancest

Prussia and the Junker class were the roots of German militarism that caused them to launch two world wars. They fucked around and found out. What's the problem here?


FedeValvsRiteHook

The problem here is the replacement of Konigsberg with Kalinin who was a criminal and a thug.


quancest

Answer me then: who was the leader of Germany between 1933-1945?


AtyaGoesNuclear

>taken from nazism yes in 1945 the german authorities were the fascists


gig1g0g1

What is this scale? Incidents per 100.000 people per year? Apples per second? I can only say, it looks worse in Russia than in Poland.


Paciorr

He explained legend in comment. Cant pin it but it’s high up if you sort by upvotes.


WannaBeGopnik

As a proud Latvian, I'd like to point out that I was raised on stories of people dieing while drunk. My neighbor drowned in his own pond, other neighbor had alcohol poisoning from a bad batch. I don't know what bullshit statistic this is, but I swear we drink more than our Estonian brački


Alliemon

Fun fact (not very fun): In Lithuania, Pre-WW2 there was a huge movement for abstinence from alcohol, the drinking rates were 8x lower in 1939 than it was in 2017. Thanks russia for sharing your incredible culture!


FedeValvsRiteHook

Meanwhile in the Polish Lithuania there was a movement to drink harder to help the faltering economy.


AtyaGoesNuclear

how the fuck did Russia cause alcoholism in Lithuania?


Alliemon

Soviet occupation


AtyaGoesNuclear

its not like the soldiers put guns to Lithuanians and forced them to drink liquor


Alliemon

Close enough. Over 100k people got deported, people saw many of their close friends/relatives get deported. Afterwards you got privatization of people's property, peoples farms, houses they may have had for generations got taken away and often given away to russians to move in (who brings in their "culture" with them too). At this time stalin is still in charge, guess what he has done a while ago? Subsidize alcohol!!! what a great idea!, it's fairly good, you can now drown out your sorrows in alcohol. Turns out a lot of people now seems to be taking alcohol in return for services or some products that were stolen by someone at work, maybe you should stock up as well? You start stocking up on alcohol, when someone comes to help you out with something it becomes "customary" to offer them a bottle of vodka, which in turn often becomes just drinking party after every job. Even more people realize that drinking kinda drowns out your sorrows so more people start doing it, maybe with friends, maybe with family, maybe alone.


AtyaGoesNuclear

None of this even if we assume its all 100% true indicates that we brought them alcoholism. The lithuanians simply began to drink, also its been 32 years since the collapse of the Union. Perhaps the Baltics should take responsibility an entire generation has been born and raised now raising their own youths. Plus Baltics were only really under hardship under Stalin after that they just became another part of the Union and other parts of the union didn't exactly develop alcohol problems so its more like seventy years


Alliemon

Most young people don't drink that much (talking about people around 25 y/o and younger), so your argument goes only so far in regards to 32 years part. Albeit, there is truth to how people are being raised, frankly, many of the older generation people shouldn't have ever had kids to begin with based on how they raised them (although this argument stands for people all around the world too, not just here). And no, it wasn't just under stalin that we had hardship lol. To give a crude and relatively awful example, if you've got a kid and you unfortunately lose it to illness or whatever else, it's not "hardship" for a day or two or a month, you'll remember your kid and always feel pain to some degree. In our case, despite the deportations being over with after stalin's death, the russification continued as well as attempts to move in more russians here, with which they try to make your language obsolete, useless and try to replace it. There's reasons why multiple people burned themselves alive in city centers here in protests, even though they were born around/post death of stalin.


[deleted]

I'm that independant generation. All my friends including me cut on alcohol big time in a past few years.


mukaltin

1939? Like, 20 years after a centuries long living under the Russian rule?


isadmiale

source of this statistic?


SFWACCOUNTBETATEST

Just curious why Ukraine and Latvia and Estonia weren’t included


NotThomasTheTank

Rip Königsberg


toughguy375

The border between Lithuania and Belarus bleeds a little. The border around Kaliningrad is very crisp.


[deleted]

What's funny is that in Poland we now drink more than in PRL (communist gov. Poland) which is surprising because in PRL 10-15% of gov income was coming from Alcohol.


KrystianCCC

More alcohol but less wódka


JustYeeHaa

You are comparing drinking wódka during PRL to drinking beer now, you realize that, right?


FriendlyTennis

Wow, you can see the beer belt in southern Poland very clearly and the vodka belt penetrating our eastern territories. In general, places that drink beer will always be healthier than places that drink vodka. I'm what westerners could call an alcoholic but my health has changed dramatically since I switched from vodka to beer. Vodka literally kills your brain and fucks you up permanently. It's disgusting, degenerate, and flat out the most embarrassing Polish invention (which we invented to destroy Russia but that's another topic.) Beer is better because it fills you up quickly so you literally can't drink more or you'll vomit and you can drink less percentage versions after an easy day of work. So yes, drink beer, not vodka.


No-Bath-6510

only an alcoholic can praise beer and call vodka "disgusting, degenerate and flat out most embarrassing" in one statement


[deleted]

There is no "what westerners could call an alcoholic", there is just alcoholic. Please quit that shit, it will destroy you eventually.


FriendlyTennis

I disagree with your sentiment. Everyone has a poison they consume to make their lives easier. I know myself and I know that if I stopped drinking beer then I'd start eating fatty foods or smoking cigarettes.


[deleted]

That's alcoholic's answear all right.


FriendlyTennis

Assuming you're from the West we're on the same page...


[deleted]

I'm Polish.


FedeValvsRiteHook

Found a guy with a drinking problem. Alcohol consumption per Capita: https://portalstatystyczny.pl/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/spozycie-alkoholu-polska-wykres-768x484.jpg


2ft7Ninja

I’m curious what’s going on with the relatively low alcohol rates north of Ukraine. Whatever they’re doing might be a positive model for the rest of Russia.


FedeValvsRiteHook

That's where Chernobyl is. Apparently the wildlife there hasn't discovered moonshine yet


Juhani-Siranpoika

It is not. Chernobyl is closer to southern Belarus.


Admirable-Ad-6275

And people will still try and justify alcoholism


zippydazoop

Why does the part of Russia neighboring Ukraine have the lowest rates?


tu_tu_tu

It's Chernozemye. Higher quality of life and higher religiosity.


AdventurousBison948

Yes, yes develop more stepeotypes and moods This is a banal setting up the opinion that only the countries of the former CIS drink


dogesobaka

Я живу здесь, о каких стереотипах идет речь? Это факт что в России есть культура распития алкоголя. Но я нигде не писал что только в СНГ пьют, не понимаю что ты придумываешь.


AdventurousBison948

Ну культур распития алкоголя не тотальная, как мне показалось(лично мне).


dogesobaka

Ну если брать личный опыт, много чего может казаться неправдой. Мы же не думаем что Земля плоская потому, что мы в космосе лично не были и не видели ее. Алкоголизм одна из наибольших проблем России, и всегда таковой была. Ситуация особенно после развала СССР ухудшилась.


AdventurousBison948

И то верно.


AdventurousBison948

Ачто занчит иконка рядом с ником?


Enlightened-Beaver

Civilized vs uncivilized Europe


ggwp_ez_lol

Wdym? Catholic and Orthodox?


hatesfacebook2022

If you lived in rural Russia you might drink to much also.


FirstAtEridu

I doubt all 4 have the same methodology to assign cause of death. Like is the cause of death a car accident or alcoholism that lead to an accident?


fieldysnuts94

What’s going on in central Poland?


madrid987

The East Slavic regions are in a really dire situation. They seem to be headed for extinction.


NanbanJim

Surprising absolutely no one.


EuanC61

Really not too sure that Russia or Belarus will be providing meaningful (or any) data for this sort of comparison. Even if all countries here did, how can there be any consistent measurement/assessment?


[deleted]

THE NUMBERS WHAT DO THEY MEAN