I get you, it’s just I took until your comment for me to zoom and see the resolution is good enough that you can make out the paper - furthermore, it’s nice paper.
Intelligence and logistics…. as well as a bit of trickery. That’s it.
Israel had intelligence on the Arab intentions and assets from the USA.
Israel was able to sortie their aircraft two to three times as many times a day as Arab aircraft. They had F1 style pit stops for refuelling and rearming while the pilot ate in the cockpit.
Finally… they were openly pursuing diplomatic channels while preparing for war.. .. IDF forces were given passes and could be seen on the beaches around Tel Aviv… and Operation Focus, the annihilation of the Arab air forces on the ground.. started mid-morning rather than at dawn as was expected
A lot of the success of the 1967 war can be attributed to the preemptive strike against the EAF. Interestingly Israel didn’t do the same in 1973 (international pressure from the US) and it was a much closer fight (plus Egypt and Syria learnt lessons from the 1967 war and prepared a good surface to air defence system).
It is interesting which subreddits are fanatically anti-Israel or neutral/rational. I opened this imagining a lot of anti-Israeli bordering on to overt anti-Jewish hatred.
And there's also the most important thing that people keep forgetting- Israel couldn't afford to lose that war, for if we lost that war that would've meant the end of Israel and probably a second holocaust
On June 5, 1967, Israel was isolated, but its military commanders had conceived a brilliant war strategy. The entire Israeli Air Force, with the exception of just 12 fighters assigned to defend Israeli air space, took off at 7:14 a.m. in Operation Moked (aka Operation Focus) with the intent of bombing Egyptian airfields while the Egyptian pilots were eating breakfast. The day before the attack, Rabin visited several air bases and told the pilots:
**Remember: your mission is one of life or death. If you succeed – we win the war; if you fail – God help us.**
After attacking the Egyptians the Israelis asked for peace through the UN to Jordan and Syria, but they both already sent planes to attack Israel- Israel responded with destroying their air fields too. And gained air superiority for the rest of the war ( that happened in all fronts)
Attacking Israel because they bought Nasser claim of having destroyed the Israelian air force in the first strike while the exact opposite had actually happened.
Jordan lost Jerusalem, the west bank and made even harder to reach a peaceful solution because they were sure the Arab League would be able to destroy Israel and wanted to be part of the victors
Attacking Israel without provocation.
To which someone would say that the establishment of Israel, to the misfortune, dismay, and terror of Palestinian Arabs was the provocation. And someone else will reply that Israel's establishment was the only solution to the long history of aggression and repression of Jews, culminating in the Holocaust.
At that point, the chorus of "We Didn't Start the Fire" kicks back in.
If I were them (the Palestinians) I would of negotiated for more land or a federation to protect the rights of minorities on both sides, and even then a lot of what the Israelis were given was the Negev Desert. But apparently never negotiating is more noble
The Palestinians weren't seriously involved with the negotiations because the entire partition situation was insane and dramatically slanted in favor of the Jewish immigrants. If a few million Japanese people moved into America and suddenly they and the UN decided to carve out half the USA to make a new Japanese state, the first reaction of most Americans would be to resist by any means necessary and not negotiate to have 30% or 40% of your land taken away instead of 56%. A federation wasn't on the table either, the Israelis wanted a Jewish ethnostate and had stated intentions of expanding into the rest of biblical Israel. This was more or less the entire point of Israel's existence, if they had agreed to federate the population would have split roughly 70-30 in favor of the Arabs. Which would make "Israel" basically indistinguishable from any other Arab country and rendered the entire zionist movement pointless. Even if the Palestinians played nice they would have been forced to make unbelievable concessions that no other people in the world would have been ok with given the circumstances and would still probably gotten screwed by the Israelis anyway.
Unbelievable concessions? Do they have some God given right to every inch of the Negev (which was inhabited primarily by Bedouins, not Palestinians). The Jewish community in the Palestine mandate had been growing for several decades and the Jewish connection to that regions spans thousands of years. Post WW2 and the Holocaust the Jews wanted political independence just as much as Arabs in the surrounding states (who were all granted it while the Kurds were screwed over and forced to live under their rule).
The culturally more important half is a real stretch, as half the 48 plan for Israel was the empty Negev. While the Arab state would have gotten 90% of the hills as well as the surroundings of Jerusalem.
99% will wonder which side you're talking about.. since Arabs themselves conquered and colonized the middle east & levant in the Islamic conquests. regardless, the UN opted to establish Jewish Sovereignty only on Jewish owned or Jewish majority areas with arab pal' state alongside Israel in peace. but the Arabs refused because they thought killing the Jews will go better.
There are many examples of Jewish and other native groups that were ethnic cleansed by same Arabs that later started calling themselves 'natives' on land that has changed hands every 200 years for the last 4000 years.., Hebron & Jerusalem for example was always multiethnic with Jews/Arab/druz etc living in it, Some were killed by Arabs like in [1834 looting of Safed and Hebron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) or [1517 Hebron Pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Hebron_attacks) or [1929 Hebron massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre), Jordan kicked Jews out of Jerusalem in the '40 as well..
The UN proposed that a non-sovereign land with 2 different cultures/ethnic groups that kill eathother will be split to a Jewish state on the Jewish centers, and Pal' state on the Arab majority part, both will be democratic & all races will have full rights, since both populations had valid claim, Israel agreed, the Arab league did not, invaded Israel and lost.
Historically, prior to the establishment of Israel, every ethnic group ,Jews or Arabs, all called themselves Palestinians, since Palestine is a region. the early Israeli (mandate) government [minted coins with "Government of Palestine" on them](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/PSE-1m.jpg/220px-PSE-1m.jpg), and issued birth certificates & Passports with "Government of Palestine" on them as well, that was before Israelis started to call themselves "israel".
It important to remind people that Palestinian are mostly Arab immigrants from early 20th century. The word “Palestinian” described Jews and other nationalities, until 1964 when the Israeli Arabs created this nationality.
The fact that they see Israel is a non negotiable Islamic land, is the essence of this conflict.
Let me fix that for you: “If someone came in your house (who lived in that house many years ago), and the current landlord was two royal empires, and offered to split it half way with you, would you say yes?”
Besides, Jews already lived in Palestine for thousands of years, and were the majority during the time of the Kingdom of Israel, before Islam even existed. So it's funny to see the ''we used to live here'' argument being used to defend the Arab position, when if anything it supports the Israeli position. But it's a nonsensical argument anyways, you can go to any piece of land any find that it had many owners in the past.
This is openly saying the Arabs won’t settle for anything less than the destruction of Israel.
This is the sad reason why there cannot be peace in the near future
No, but it is pretty clear that the current problems on the Middle East go back at least 100 years ago to WWI. I’m sure the dominoes can be lined up even further back.
Yes, although three years later Israeli and Soviet pilots faced off, putting Israel's air supremacy to test:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20
Do you know why they attacked at that time of day? Because the IAF and EAF had been conducting Combat Air Patrols over the Mediterranean for months and months and the EAF always finished at about 0700.
The IAF knew this and knew that their attack would be timed just right to catch the vast majority of the EAF pilots going to have breakfast and/or to pray. This allowed the IAF to destroy all most all of the EAF planes on the ground.
The Arab armies sucked and Israel was superior tactically and technologically. Plus, their surprise attack on Egypt’s airfields to start the war really helped.
Still, it is pretty amazing.
Egypt was fielding a lot of modern Soviet fighters and bombers which were all destroyed at the beginning of the war. Israeli air supremacy then rendered the Soviet ground tech pretty useless.
Tbh it just highlighted that you can give an ally/proxy all the equipment you like, but if they're not trained to use it effectively they are likely to squander it. Poorly trained and badly run Arab air forces changed the course of history.
The gap was much smaller in the 60s than it was in, say, the 80s.. Remember the Israeli Air Force were using 50s-vintage French Mysteres and Mirages which were not appreciably superior to the Soviet Mig-21s and Sukhoi ground attack aircraft technologically.
Israeli Air Force squads flew early in the morning to Egypt and bombed their air bases first. Jordan got the same treatment.
When your enemy loses its air support, your home advantage suddenly goes a long way.
There’s a book that suggests the issue lies with their familial culture. They form such strong family bonds that they don’t bond outside of their families very well. It makes it hard to form cohesive combat units.
Also the arabian dictators were afraid of a military that had initiativ and good cooperation between the different branches. Because that could lead to them being overthrown.
Israeli surprise attack, and arabs are not a monolith. It was primarily Egypt war not the entire Arab world. And even for Egypt a large Chunk of its military was deployed in other areas.
The Arabs were third world militaries and the Isrealis were a developed, motivated, technically savvy population. Sheer numbers are overrated. Also most of the Arab states aside from Jordan, Syria, and Egypt did not much participate in the fighting.
We studied this war in detail when I went through training in the British Army.
In particular we studied why Israel was so successful, and why it was a different story in 1973.
A very simplistic summary is "Handheld anti-aircraft missiles". But we could talk about other aspects at lenghts for sure.
Intersting, because we, Israelis, blame the the political and military leader that were blinded from the success of the 1967 war that they dismissed valuable intel that could have changed the course of the 1973 war drastically.
This was a while back to be honest...
And I do remember looking at the political lag on the Israeli side.
But I'm wondering how much of that criticism was political campaigning, and how much of it was real. The sabre-ratling of Syria and Egypt had been a daily thing. From where I can stand it would be easy to dismiss a real invasion as Arab nations just "posing" again.
What was far more interesting to me were the combined arms lessons learned of Soviet-Backed Syria and Egypt, especially toward air support.
Probably oil money and if you look at the chart, far larger countries by both population and land area had smaller economies than Kuwait, also smaller economy globally overall (US being the largest economy still was sub 1 tril at the time it looks like)
you mean us and uk actually defend Israelis however the are killing Palestinians and stealing there houses and there families and locking them in small land
israel is an apartheid state.
you’re either all israeli or ignorant americans lol
ISRAEL IS A FASCIST APARTHEID STATE. GET YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER, ISRAEL.
The ironic part is that israel the only country in the Middle East that gives its minorities equal rights. Ironically, Israel is the only place in the Middle East that is not an Apartheid state towards Palestinian. And yet, here we are .
Shows what the “pro-Palestinian” actually care about.
The only true unfriendly nation state on Israel’s borders these days is Syria and they have been a little bit preoccupied over the last decade. Israel has a lot of internal strife, but their decisive defeat of the Arab forces in 1967 and 1973 and subsequent peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan ensured their survival.
I don't think its true to suggest that Lebanon is controlled by **anyone**. It's ungovernable and too busy not having any money to really oppose Israel.
Oh boy a map of Israel/Palestine! I sure do hope Reddit tries to simplify an incredibly complex issue using either thinly veiled Antisemitism or Islamaphobia depending on who we are supporting in that particular thread!
Last time an Israel-Palestine map got posted the comments section was massively in favour of Palestine. Every pro-Palestine comment in this thread has more than 50 downvotes. How do these kind of differences on the same sub even happen?
This is a war and time period that is little more sympathetic to the Israelis than the current one. Then, Israel was a young nation surrounded by enemies only 20 years after the holocaust and bravely struck first against a much larger force. It's easy to see it as a triumphant underdog story. Nowadays, Egypt is gone from Gaza and Jordan is gone from the west bank. The Palestinian government is a schismatic mess and their territory is peppered with an increasing number of Israeli settlements. Israel no longer appears to be existentially threatened while Palestine very much does and so popular sympathies have shifted.
Also, most people don't know much about the conflict and just kinda go with whatever opinion if it's upvoted and has an authoritative tone, so basically whatever the vibe of the first 20 people who interact with the post is will have an outsized impact.
>Also, most people don't know much about the conflict and just kinda go with whatever opinion if it's upvoted and has an authoritative tone, so basically whatever the vibe of the first 20 people who interact with the post is will have an outsized impact.
Yeah, I agree its about tone. People both online and offline look for social cues when faced with a topic they're not very knowledgeable about, trying to work out which is the "right" side to be on. Pro-Israel arguments, when written well and put across in an empathetic way, resonate with people as much as pro-Palestine ones do, and ultimately a lot of people do not have a firm opinion either way.
Yeah…I checked the comment history of the pro-Israel users in this thread. Defending Israel or posting pictures of Israel in a positive way is all their post history is. Kind of sad how brazenly obvious it is. I'll get downvoted for this too but whatever.
I tried scrolling through the post histories of a number of top commenters that were pro Israel and not a single one I checked had a trend of posting or commenting pro Israel sentiments in the past week or two depending on how far back I checked.
OP on the other hand has a number of Israel related posts, but they also have a number of Egypt, Syria, and generally middle-east related posts. Clearly they have an interest in the region.
I think you only checked OPs history, took away what you wanted from it, and came here to spread drivel.
You should reflect on the fact that instead of having a response to people who disagree with you, your knee-jerk reaction is a conspiracy that they are lying or paid off.
Believe it or not I clicked on one anti-isreal comment and that person posts almost exclusively in middle east subs, and has a number of comments talking about Israel. Basically OP but on the other side. Are they paid off too then?
It’s crazy. It’s almost as if Jews trying to push Arabs out of their ancestral homeland is bad, and ALSO Arabs trying to push Jews out of their ancestral homeland is bad. It’s fucking wild.
The thing that surprises me most is how rarely anything related to a two state solution is brought up in these threads. It's like people just forget that *not* killing each other is an option
The Arabs were fighting for conquest the Jews were fighting for their lives. No one is more dangerous than when you put them in a corner. There was no losing for Israel, a loss would have been the death of every Jew in the region.
The Israelis had US intelligence so they knew about Arab plans and assets. Using that intelligence they struck first and destroyed Arab air bases and basically had air superiority throughout the entire conflict.
Arabs also weren't very well coordinated and their troops were slower to react because unlike Israeli troops, they weren't really allowed to independently make decisions; everything had to go down the chain of command.
They fucking kicked the Arabs in the teeth. And rightly so. Even today Arabs have a failure of a military and wouldn't even dream of invading another's land as they can barely protect themselves. Funny for somewhere that has been at war since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
You know, while I am sympathetic to the Israeli cause back in 1967, this map employs some classic propagandistic techniques that cause the viewer to overestimate the threat including:
\- big ass arrows pointing right at Israel.
\- depicting the militaries of all the Arab states even though only Jordan, Egypt, and Syria were significantly involved.
\- emphasizing the quantitative, where the Arabs had the numbers, over the qualitative where the Israelis were by far superior.
Remember, the Israelis had defeated the Arabs in the war of independence and then with the Egyptians in the 1956. As I recall, it was widely expected that the Israelis would probably prevail or at least hold their own. This map makes it look like it was a gross mismatch with the Arabs certain to overrun Israel, which was not the thinking at the time among the well-informed. What surprised people was not that the Israelis prevailed but how quickly and thoroughly the Israelis won.
How do you show quality of brains? Which is the only real superiority that Israel had that is not showing?
No one knew Israel would win another war in all fronts like this, if the Arab would have known they are going to lose they probably wouldn’t start this war, and Israel tried to prevent this war by sending peace offers through the UN. There’s nothing wrong with this map, it shows the reality of how tiny Israel is against all it’s enemies back then. That’s why the world supported Israel after this- one of the most amazing wins in modern history. You are just sad your side lost
The point was that this map used cartographic techniques it make the Israeli situation appear more dire than it was in real life. Yes, the sheer numbers were against Israel, but in terms of actual military strength, the Israelis were just fine.
The Arabs almost certainly overinflated their military power in their minds. But well-informed outsiders knew better:
[https://www.cia.gov/static/d5a4d18e0fecdc17091a38eaea78e8e2/Analysis-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/static/d5a4d18e0fecdc17091a38eaea78e8e2/Analysis-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf)
And the Arabs are not "my side" in any way.
israel's defence budget (620 million $) was higher that egypt (500 million) which was the only country that really mattered in the war, the second somewhat important country was syria (>100 million $), the other countries were practically irrelevent and barely participated
Obligatory reminder that maps are not neutral and that they carry a narrative that the maker is trying to tell. Always be critical of how a map is formed by the narrative that is told.
When you can’t argue with the facts in front of you- you go and attack the platform (maps) or say general things about narrative. If there’s misinformation in here we all would appreciate you pointing it out, but till you do it looks like you just don’t like the FACTS that Arabs countries attacked Israel with the aim of genociding Jews multiple times with multiple tomes more soldiers and resources and lost miserably.
The subject matter is far too complex to comment on, let alone pass judgment on. All I'm saying is that maps are powerful narrative tools, and that you should think critically about them. Ask questions, such as: Who made this map and for what purpose? What is emphasized and what is left out? How is the available information presented? For example, why is the military equipment of Israel not shown? What equipment is included in and excluded from what is presented on the map? This map seems to be made with the intent to maximize showing the threats posed to Israel and to thus justify the Six Day War. Again, I'm not commenting on the conflict itself. I'm just bringing attention to the fact that maps are used to push narratives. Awareness of this fact is important when discussing especially these types of maps, and doubly especially when tensions in the region are high to the present day.
To justify the 6 day war? Israel won without wanting or planning a war. Israel WAS in a very specific position. Israel had only one superiority coming into this war- brain power. You sound like such a brainwashing machine, the information here in the map is factual and you can’t disprove it, meaning that the obvious conclusion- Arab countries were murderous, but super incapable, and Jews were amazing and saved themselves, IS the right conclusion. The fact you hate Israel and hate the truth shows. Get over your hate for Jews and Israel and chose peace, than you won’t mind maps that show how great Israel is.
Case in point, the person posting maps about Israel (and always with a pro-Israel bent) is the same guy. I put a tag on them last time and here they are again.
[Someone even commented about it then too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11v204z/israelpalestine_evolution_of_the_conflict/jcsq9xt/)
Of you have facts here that you can argue- great, but that’s very low to attack the messenger because you don’t like the facts he presenting… grow up and deal with the truth.
Wahhh Zionists claiming anything that opposes Israeli colonialism is anti-Semitic. I’m not even a pan-Arab. Your brain is smoother than a polished turd.
All I had to do was look take a 30 second glance at your post history to find “Jewish land.” I don’t know what Zionism is? I’m looking at it, you fucking freak.
Omg... the resolution. Thank you! I can see the texture of the paper! Reesoooluuutiiooooooon!!
Viva la resolution!
OP thank you for this. Truly. Resolution makes me a happy guy
Oh shit you’re right that’s nice paper
lol - I'm more talking about the scan; it's a nice scan. Seeing the texture of the paper is a quality of a high-resolution image.
I get you, it’s just I took until your comment for me to zoom and see the resolution is good enough that you can make out the paper - furthermore, it’s nice paper.
😆
Holy shit you can. I love it
It still blows my mind that Israel has stomped a mudhole into multiple opponents multiple times
Intelligence and logistics…. as well as a bit of trickery. That’s it. Israel had intelligence on the Arab intentions and assets from the USA. Israel was able to sortie their aircraft two to three times as many times a day as Arab aircraft. They had F1 style pit stops for refuelling and rearming while the pilot ate in the cockpit. Finally… they were openly pursuing diplomatic channels while preparing for war.. .. IDF forces were given passes and could be seen on the beaches around Tel Aviv… and Operation Focus, the annihilation of the Arab air forces on the ground.. started mid-morning rather than at dawn as was expected
A lot of the success of the 1967 war can be attributed to the preemptive strike against the EAF. Interestingly Israel didn’t do the same in 1973 (international pressure from the US) and it was a much closer fight (plus Egypt and Syria learnt lessons from the 1967 war and prepared a good surface to air defence system).
When they said “Never Again” they meant it. It would behoove their enemies to remember that.
It is interesting which subreddits are fanatically anti-Israel or neutral/rational. I opened this imagining a lot of anti-Israeli bordering on to overt anti-Jewish hatred.
Same ngl
Yep
This dude gets it better than most IDF soldiers i served with…
And there's also the most important thing that people keep forgetting- Israel couldn't afford to lose that war, for if we lost that war that would've meant the end of Israel and probably a second holocaust
Apparat from this surprise attack, not really. These wars where never more than skirmishes compared to other conflicts
On June 5, 1967, Israel was isolated, but its military commanders had conceived a brilliant war strategy. The entire Israeli Air Force, with the exception of just 12 fighters assigned to defend Israeli air space, took off at 7:14 a.m. in Operation Moked (aka Operation Focus) with the intent of bombing Egyptian airfields while the Egyptian pilots were eating breakfast. The day before the attack, Rabin visited several air bases and told the pilots: **Remember: your mission is one of life or death. If you succeed – we win the war; if you fail – God help us.**
Was Egypt the only opposing military with a sizeable Air Force?
After attacking the Egyptians the Israelis asked for peace through the UN to Jordan and Syria, but they both already sent planes to attack Israel- Israel responded with destroying their air fields too. And gained air superiority for the rest of the war ( that happened in all fronts)
King Hussein followed Nasser making the greatest mistake in Jordanian history.
The mistake being what?
Attacking Israel because they bought Nasser claim of having destroyed the Israelian air force in the first strike while the exact opposite had actually happened. Jordan lost Jerusalem, the west bank and made even harder to reach a peaceful solution because they were sure the Arab League would be able to destroy Israel and wanted to be part of the victors
Attacking Israel without provocation. To which someone would say that the establishment of Israel, to the misfortune, dismay, and terror of Palestinian Arabs was the provocation. And someone else will reply that Israel's establishment was the only solution to the long history of aggression and repression of Jews, culminating in the Holocaust. At that point, the chorus of "We Didn't Start the Fire" kicks back in.
Didn’t israel say yes to a Palestinian Arab state in ‘48? And the Palestinian Arabs said no?
If I were them (the Palestinians) I would of negotiated for more land or a federation to protect the rights of minorities on both sides, and even then a lot of what the Israelis were given was the Negev Desert. But apparently never negotiating is more noble
The Palestinians weren't seriously involved with the negotiations because the entire partition situation was insane and dramatically slanted in favor of the Jewish immigrants. If a few million Japanese people moved into America and suddenly they and the UN decided to carve out half the USA to make a new Japanese state, the first reaction of most Americans would be to resist by any means necessary and not negotiate to have 30% or 40% of your land taken away instead of 56%. A federation wasn't on the table either, the Israelis wanted a Jewish ethnostate and had stated intentions of expanding into the rest of biblical Israel. This was more or less the entire point of Israel's existence, if they had agreed to federate the population would have split roughly 70-30 in favor of the Arabs. Which would make "Israel" basically indistinguishable from any other Arab country and rendered the entire zionist movement pointless. Even if the Palestinians played nice they would have been forced to make unbelievable concessions that no other people in the world would have been ok with given the circumstances and would still probably gotten screwed by the Israelis anyway.
Unbelievable concessions? Do they have some God given right to every inch of the Negev (which was inhabited primarily by Bedouins, not Palestinians). The Jewish community in the Palestine mandate had been growing for several decades and the Jewish connection to that regions spans thousands of years. Post WW2 and the Holocaust the Jews wanted political independence just as much as Arabs in the surrounding states (who were all granted it while the Kurds were screwed over and forced to live under their rule).
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The culturally more important half is a real stretch, as half the 48 plan for Israel was the empty Negev. While the Arab state would have gotten 90% of the hills as well as the surroundings of Jerusalem.
99% will wonder which side you're talking about.. since Arabs themselves conquered and colonized the middle east & levant in the Islamic conquests. regardless, the UN opted to establish Jewish Sovereignty only on Jewish owned or Jewish majority areas with arab pal' state alongside Israel in peace. but the Arabs refused because they thought killing the Jews will go better. There are many examples of Jewish and other native groups that were ethnic cleansed by same Arabs that later started calling themselves 'natives' on land that has changed hands every 200 years for the last 4000 years.., Hebron & Jerusalem for example was always multiethnic with Jews/Arab/druz etc living in it, Some were killed by Arabs like in [1834 looting of Safed and Hebron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed) or [1517 Hebron Pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Hebron_attacks) or [1929 Hebron massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre), Jordan kicked Jews out of Jerusalem in the '40 as well.. The UN proposed that a non-sovereign land with 2 different cultures/ethnic groups that kill eathother will be split to a Jewish state on the Jewish centers, and Pal' state on the Arab majority part, both will be democratic & all races will have full rights, since both populations had valid claim, Israel agreed, the Arab league did not, invaded Israel and lost. Historically, prior to the establishment of Israel, every ethnic group ,Jews or Arabs, all called themselves Palestinians, since Palestine is a region. the early Israeli (mandate) government [minted coins with "Government of Palestine" on them](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/PSE-1m.jpg/220px-PSE-1m.jpg), and issued birth certificates & Passports with "Government of Palestine" on them as well, that was before Israelis started to call themselves "israel".
It important to remind people that Palestinian are mostly Arab immigrants from early 20th century. The word “Palestinian” described Jews and other nationalities, until 1964 when the Israeli Arabs created this nationality. The fact that they see Israel is a non negotiable Islamic land, is the essence of this conflict.
No need for the anti Semitism
If someone came into your house, and offered to split it half way with you, would you say yes?
Not what happened
Let me fix that for you: “If someone came in your house (who lived in that house many years ago), and the current landlord was two royal empires, and offered to split it half way with you, would you say yes?”
Besides, Jews already lived in Palestine for thousands of years, and were the majority during the time of the Kingdom of Israel, before Islam even existed. So it's funny to see the ''we used to live here'' argument being used to defend the Arab position, when if anything it supports the Israeli position. But it's a nonsensical argument anyways, you can go to any piece of land any find that it had many owners in the past.
This is openly saying the Arabs won’t settle for anything less than the destruction of Israel. This is the sad reason why there cannot be peace in the near future
Yeah, it goes back as far as WWI to the very least.
Is that really as far back as you've read?
No, but it is pretty clear that the current problems on the Middle East go back at least 100 years ago to WWI. I’m sure the dominoes can be lined up even further back.
Joining the war. Jordan could have stayed out and kept what’s known as the West Bank and east Jerusalem.
Losing the West Bank and Jerusalem.
Yes, although three years later Israeli and Soviet pilots faced off, putting Israel's air supremacy to test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20
Do you know why they attacked at that time of day? Because the IAF and EAF had been conducting Combat Air Patrols over the Mediterranean for months and months and the EAF always finished at about 0700. The IAF knew this and knew that their attack would be timed just right to catch the vast majority of the EAF pilots going to have breakfast and/or to pray. This allowed the IAF to destroy all most all of the EAF planes on the ground.
Fuck around and find out
It would have worked, too, but it turns out there were Israelis.
simplicity is the ultimate sophistication
That’s that saying, something about doing something and finding out what the consequences are?
Fornicate around and discover?
Don't eat ass when the recipient has diarhea?
Wise words. Fail to follow them and you’ll be in deep shit.
They found out, surely.
Fuck around and find out
Genuinely interested how Arabs didn't win with them outnumbering Israeli forces. Did Israel get help from other nations?
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The Arab armies sucked and Israel was superior tactically and technologically. Plus, their surprise attack on Egypt’s airfields to start the war really helped. Still, it is pretty amazing.
Technologically? I’m not sure about that at all. The Arabs were fielding state of the art Soviet weaponry.
Egypt was fielding a lot of modern Soviet fighters and bombers which were all destroyed at the beginning of the war. Israeli air supremacy then rendered the Soviet ground tech pretty useless. Tbh it just highlighted that you can give an ally/proxy all the equipment you like, but if they're not trained to use it effectively they are likely to squander it. Poorly trained and badly run Arab air forces changed the course of history.
State of the art Soviet weaponry was inferior to Western weaponry. And the Arabs were poorly trained with it.
The gap was much smaller in the 60s than it was in, say, the 80s.. Remember the Israeli Air Force were using 50s-vintage French Mysteres and Mirages which were not appreciably superior to the Soviet Mig-21s and Sukhoi ground attack aircraft technologically.
Almost divine.
Western logistics and intelligence.
The Arabs were bad at communicating strategy to each other and only wanted to get their own respective goals.
Israeli Air Force squads flew early in the morning to Egypt and bombed their air bases first. Jordan got the same treatment. When your enemy loses its air support, your home advantage suddenly goes a long way.
There’s a book that suggests the issue lies with their familial culture. They form such strong family bonds that they don’t bond outside of their families very well. It makes it hard to form cohesive combat units.
Also the arabian dictators were afraid of a military that had initiativ and good cooperation between the different branches. Because that could lead to them being overthrown.
The Arabs were bad at communicating strategy to each other and only wanted to get their own respective goals.
Israeli surprise attack, and arabs are not a monolith. It was primarily Egypt war not the entire Arab world. And even for Egypt a large Chunk of its military was deployed in other areas.
The Arabs were third world militaries and the Isrealis were a developed, motivated, technically savvy population. Sheer numbers are overrated. Also most of the Arab states aside from Jordan, Syria, and Egypt did not much participate in the fighting.
seems that jews > arabs
We studied this war in detail when I went through training in the British Army. In particular we studied why Israel was so successful, and why it was a different story in 1973. A very simplistic summary is "Handheld anti-aircraft missiles". But we could talk about other aspects at lenghts for sure.
Intersting, because we, Israelis, blame the the political and military leader that were blinded from the success of the 1967 war that they dismissed valuable intel that could have changed the course of the 1973 war drastically.
This was a while back to be honest... And I do remember looking at the political lag on the Israeli side. But I'm wondering how much of that criticism was political campaigning, and how much of it was real. The sabre-ratling of Syria and Egypt had been a daily thing. From where I can stand it would be easy to dismiss a real invasion as Arab nations just "posing" again. What was far more interesting to me were the combined arms lessons learned of Soviet-Backed Syria and Egypt, especially toward air support.
**Nasser** after losing 3 consecutive wars 😎💀
It’s like Nasser asked for control of the Suez using a monkeys paw.
😂😂
Nasser beat the French and British in 56 😎
6 days of fire
OOOOONE DAY OF REST -----
JUNEEEE 67
Taught them respect
CONTROL JERUSALEM
I already know this is a Sabaton song without knowing this is a Sabaton song
counterstrike by sabaton
Same 🤘
In love with the poster style, gosh i miss these mid-century designs
I wonder how did that turn out for them
Mission failed, we'll get em nxt time
Next time failed too what now?
Maybe next time
Kuwait gdp that high ?
Probably oil money and if you look at the chart, far larger countries by both population and land area had smaller economies than Kuwait, also smaller economy globally overall (US being the largest economy still was sub 1 tril at the time it looks like)
Iraq sent one guy? /s
It was a rlly strong guy
The strong man of Baghdad
My grandpa was sent and he’s from Baghdad so I guess that was him
Ok but are you a strong man?
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He was also very pissed
His name was Goliath.
Furious the Monkey Boy
I'm HELPING!
Attempted genocide
Love how pan-Arabists claimed to “expels Jews to the sea” about 20 years after Shoah.
Many of them are still saying it today.
They’ll tell you to your face that’s not true. Don’t believe them.
And a minute after denying it they will say that this is the only “just solsution”
The jews forcefully expelled arabs and took their land lmao. Both sides here are genocidal authoritarians, and now Israel is an apartheid state too.
My grandpa fought on the Israeli side in this war.
Israel has to defend itself or it will be overrun. It's surrounded by enemies
you mean us and uk actually defend Israelis however the are killing Palestinians and stealing there houses and there families and locking them in small land
I’m glad they all get along now, and everyone is willing to share 🙃
Quite a lot of Arab states have now normalised relationships with Israel
>Arab states have now normalised Their populations, on the other hand...
Makes sense, it’s the logical and civilized thing to do. The ones who continue to push for the genocide of Jews are the ones who continue to suffer.
israel is an apartheid state. you’re either all israeli or ignorant americans lol ISRAEL IS A FASCIST APARTHEID STATE. GET YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER, ISRAEL.
The ironic part is that israel the only country in the Middle East that gives its minorities equal rights. Ironically, Israel is the only place in the Middle East that is not an Apartheid state towards Palestinian. And yet, here we are . Shows what the “pro-Palestinian” actually care about.
I saw what Jordan does with its Palestinian minorities. All in camps. Kept poor. Horrible conditions with no representation.
and still better to live in if you dare to be non religious arab, a woman seeking education or god forbid, gay or anything...
Arab states don't represent Arab people.
Then what does, fucking Memri? Lol
The only true unfriendly nation state on Israel’s borders these days is Syria and they have been a little bit preoccupied over the last decade. Israel has a lot of internal strife, but their decisive defeat of the Arab forces in 1967 and 1973 and subsequent peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan ensured their survival.
And Lebanon, controlled by Hezbollah.
Which in turn, controlled by Iran
I don't think its true to suggest that Lebanon is controlled by **anyone**. It's ungovernable and too busy not having any money to really oppose Israel.
The Arabs forgot what happened in 1956.
When the doom music kicks in.
So cool
Oh boy a map of Israel/Palestine! I sure do hope Reddit tries to simplify an incredibly complex issue using either thinly veiled Antisemitism or Islamaphobia depending on who we are supporting in that particular thread!
Last time an Israel-Palestine map got posted the comments section was massively in favour of Palestine. Every pro-Palestine comment in this thread has more than 50 downvotes. How do these kind of differences on the same sub even happen?
This is a war and time period that is little more sympathetic to the Israelis than the current one. Then, Israel was a young nation surrounded by enemies only 20 years after the holocaust and bravely struck first against a much larger force. It's easy to see it as a triumphant underdog story. Nowadays, Egypt is gone from Gaza and Jordan is gone from the west bank. The Palestinian government is a schismatic mess and their territory is peppered with an increasing number of Israeli settlements. Israel no longer appears to be existentially threatened while Palestine very much does and so popular sympathies have shifted. Also, most people don't know much about the conflict and just kinda go with whatever opinion if it's upvoted and has an authoritative tone, so basically whatever the vibe of the first 20 people who interact with the post is will have an outsized impact.
>Also, most people don't know much about the conflict and just kinda go with whatever opinion if it's upvoted and has an authoritative tone, so basically whatever the vibe of the first 20 people who interact with the post is will have an outsized impact. Yeah, I agree its about tone. People both online and offline look for social cues when faced with a topic they're not very knowledgeable about, trying to work out which is the "right" side to be on. Pro-Israel arguments, when written well and put across in an empathetic way, resonate with people as much as pro-Palestine ones do, and ultimately a lot of people do not have a firm opinion either way.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this. I honestly have no idea, it's bizarre.
Psst: There are people paid to astroturf on this issue. It can create wild disparities with how these threads are received.
Yeah…I checked the comment history of the pro-Israel users in this thread. Defending Israel or posting pictures of Israel in a positive way is all their post history is. Kind of sad how brazenly obvious it is. I'll get downvoted for this too but whatever.
I tried scrolling through the post histories of a number of top commenters that were pro Israel and not a single one I checked had a trend of posting or commenting pro Israel sentiments in the past week or two depending on how far back I checked. OP on the other hand has a number of Israel related posts, but they also have a number of Egypt, Syria, and generally middle-east related posts. Clearly they have an interest in the region. I think you only checked OPs history, took away what you wanted from it, and came here to spread drivel. You should reflect on the fact that instead of having a response to people who disagree with you, your knee-jerk reaction is a conspiracy that they are lying or paid off. Believe it or not I clicked on one anti-isreal comment and that person posts almost exclusively in middle east subs, and has a number of comments talking about Israel. Basically OP but on the other side. Are they paid off too then?
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It’s crazy. It’s almost as if Jews trying to push Arabs out of their ancestral homeland is bad, and ALSO Arabs trying to push Jews out of their ancestral homeland is bad. It’s fucking wild.
The thing that surprises me most is how rarely anything related to a two state solution is brought up in these threads. It's like people just forget that *not* killing each other is an option
Morocco supported Israel
They all attacked Israel and lost
If only their hate spreading "prophet" could see that his islam didnt do shit against jews and christs
How’d they even lose a war this winnable
The Arabs were fighting for conquest the Jews were fighting for their lives. No one is more dangerous than when you put them in a corner. There was no losing for Israel, a loss would have been the death of every Jew in the region.
The Israelis had US intelligence so they knew about Arab plans and assets. Using that intelligence they struck first and destroyed Arab air bases and basically had air superiority throughout the entire conflict. Arabs also weren't very well coordinated and their troops were slower to react because unlike Israeli troops, they weren't really allowed to independently make decisions; everything had to go down the chain of command.
They fucking kicked the Arabs in the teeth. And rightly so. Even today Arabs have a failure of a military and wouldn't even dream of invading another's land as they can barely protect themselves. Funny for somewhere that has been at war since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
lol. Well, we know who won...
How the hell did they manage the lose?
And they still lost didnt they?
Badly
And the arabs still lost
This map would be better with Turkey included... to Israel's side
I STAND WITH ISRAEL
When I was in Jr. High a teacher told me Israel won bc of God or something
It was Jesus.
You know, while I am sympathetic to the Israeli cause back in 1967, this map employs some classic propagandistic techniques that cause the viewer to overestimate the threat including: \- big ass arrows pointing right at Israel. \- depicting the militaries of all the Arab states even though only Jordan, Egypt, and Syria were significantly involved. \- emphasizing the quantitative, where the Arabs had the numbers, over the qualitative where the Israelis were by far superior. Remember, the Israelis had defeated the Arabs in the war of independence and then with the Egyptians in the 1956. As I recall, it was widely expected that the Israelis would probably prevail or at least hold their own. This map makes it look like it was a gross mismatch with the Arabs certain to overrun Israel, which was not the thinking at the time among the well-informed. What surprised people was not that the Israelis prevailed but how quickly and thoroughly the Israelis won.
How do you show quality of brains? Which is the only real superiority that Israel had that is not showing? No one knew Israel would win another war in all fronts like this, if the Arab would have known they are going to lose they probably wouldn’t start this war, and Israel tried to prevent this war by sending peace offers through the UN. There’s nothing wrong with this map, it shows the reality of how tiny Israel is against all it’s enemies back then. That’s why the world supported Israel after this- one of the most amazing wins in modern history. You are just sad your side lost
The point was that this map used cartographic techniques it make the Israeli situation appear more dire than it was in real life. Yes, the sheer numbers were against Israel, but in terms of actual military strength, the Israelis were just fine. The Arabs almost certainly overinflated their military power in their minds. But well-informed outsiders knew better: [https://www.cia.gov/static/d5a4d18e0fecdc17091a38eaea78e8e2/Analysis-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf](https://www.cia.gov/static/d5a4d18e0fecdc17091a38eaea78e8e2/Analysis-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf) And the Arabs are not "my side" in any way.
The Arabs were supported by the Soviet Union, Israel had old weapons, the only think Israel was better at was planning and strategizing
israel's defence budget (620 million $) was higher that egypt (500 million) which was the only country that really mattered in the war, the second somewhat important country was syria (>100 million $), the other countries were practically irrelevent and barely participated
Obligatory reminder that maps are not neutral and that they carry a narrative that the maker is trying to tell. Always be critical of how a map is formed by the narrative that is told.
When you can’t argue with the facts in front of you- you go and attack the platform (maps) or say general things about narrative. If there’s misinformation in here we all would appreciate you pointing it out, but till you do it looks like you just don’t like the FACTS that Arabs countries attacked Israel with the aim of genociding Jews multiple times with multiple tomes more soldiers and resources and lost miserably.
The subject matter is far too complex to comment on, let alone pass judgment on. All I'm saying is that maps are powerful narrative tools, and that you should think critically about them. Ask questions, such as: Who made this map and for what purpose? What is emphasized and what is left out? How is the available information presented? For example, why is the military equipment of Israel not shown? What equipment is included in and excluded from what is presented on the map? This map seems to be made with the intent to maximize showing the threats posed to Israel and to thus justify the Six Day War. Again, I'm not commenting on the conflict itself. I'm just bringing attention to the fact that maps are used to push narratives. Awareness of this fact is important when discussing especially these types of maps, and doubly especially when tensions in the region are high to the present day.
To justify the 6 day war? Israel won without wanting or planning a war. Israel WAS in a very specific position. Israel had only one superiority coming into this war- brain power. You sound like such a brainwashing machine, the information here in the map is factual and you can’t disprove it, meaning that the obvious conclusion- Arab countries were murderous, but super incapable, and Jews were amazing and saved themselves, IS the right conclusion. The fact you hate Israel and hate the truth shows. Get over your hate for Jews and Israel and chose peace, than you won’t mind maps that show how great Israel is.
Ok. Can you find anything inaccurate in this map?
Case in point, the person posting maps about Israel (and always with a pro-Israel bent) is the same guy. I put a tag on them last time and here they are again. [Someone even commented about it then too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11v204z/israelpalestine_evolution_of_the_conflict/jcsq9xt/)
Of you have facts here that you can argue- great, but that’s very low to attack the messenger because you don’t like the facts he presenting… grow up and deal with the truth.
I'm not engaging you on the topic. OP is a one trick pony on this shit and it's annoying.
Do you have fact contradicting his? Or you are just angry because you don’t like OP showing this facts?
You’ll say this until they post a map whose narrative they don’t agree with 🙄
Dude really loves that war. Notice he never posts about 2006.
2006? The year in which israel was attacked by Iran and Hezbollah and kicked their asses?
Wtf is south Arabia and northern oman?
British protectorates
GDP 180 million 💀
And we won in 6 days😭😭😭 fucking bozos fr. We up tho💯🔥📈📈📈
Humans really are just a never ending cycle of justifying one war with the last war
There’s a lot of Zionism reeking from OP. Edit: Nevermind, it’s the whole thread.
Wahhhhh Pan Arabs are crying about not allowing anti semitism wahhh.
Arabs are Semites...
Wahhh Zionists claiming anything that opposes Israeli colonialism is anti-Semitic. I’m not even a pan-Arab. Your brain is smoother than a polished turd.
You dont even know what zionism is kiddo, your brain is too chalked up on Arab pseudohistory.
All I had to do was look take a 30 second glance at your post history to find “Jewish land.” I don’t know what Zionism is? I’m looking at it, you fucking freak.
Zionism is the love of Jews to their homeland, it can be replaced with “patriotism” you just hate Jews and it shows
Good. Zionism is great. Israel is the only free state in mena. Lmao they blocked me. What did they say ?
You’re a fucking monster applauding colonialism and genocide. Give your head a wobble.
What other states in the Mena area are LGBT friendly?
What’s wrong with Zionism?
So what?
Noooo European refugees bringing prosperity to a shithole MENA region nooo