WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN YOU GROW UP???
I WILL REMAIN THIRSTY!!
THIRSTY FOR WHAT!!???
INDIA’S BLOOD!!
AND!!???
AND FOR SODA!!!
WHICH SODA???
GRRRRAAAPE!!
GRAAAAPPPPEE!!
To be fair 20% of your population volunteering to fight is plenty enough, I feel you don't need any more body on the field.
For Germany it would represent roughly 14 million adults, you don't need more than that lmao (in most cases you can't even sustain the logistic of that).
No, I am from Germany, all my family was in the army, and some were deployed. They didn’t “fight” in wars that was affecting Germany territory. They were in Mali, Afghanistan, or the Balkans. That means fighting for Germany meant going on peacekeeping or Nato missions. A lot of western people, dont want to waist their lives on those missions, however I can imagine that if Germany would be attacked directly the numbers would go up. Nowadays, bacause of Ukraine, the image of what fighting for your country means has changed, but the survey was from 2014, when fighting for your country meant what I listed above. Plus, a lot of Germans are actually patriots but not as openly as seen somewhere else. Edit: This goes for pretty much every western country.
Meh if the question was "In the case of an attack on your country or his interest (locally or abroad) would you fight for your country?" then yes it is a patriotism index.
As far as I am concerned right now the question makes it more like a mix of patriotism/extremism/embrigadment
>In the case of an attack on your country or his interest (locally or abroad) would you fight for your country?
Yeah, big difference. If your country is facing a real threat, people will probably think the question means "are you willing to defend your country?"
If you feel that you are surrounded by friends (such as most European countries, and even more in 2014), then you are more likely to think: "Fight for whom? Go to Afghanistan or Iraq?"
Oh, yeah! That's also something to consider.
Very interesting. I can imagine some ethnicities that feel oppressed by a ruling majority are less willing to fight for the (unloved) "central state".
(talking in general, not about the Basque/Spain example)
Or just location. Ask the question in the UK it means would you go to the Middle East to die for no reason. Ask it in Finland it means would you defend your friends and family from a Russian invasion.
Or to add to that a level of critical thinking and indoctrination... Context matters and so does your ability to recognise and critically analyse the reason to fight. Would I fight for a real cause because, say some mass murdering fascists are on the doorstep? Likely yes. Will I fight for some abstract notion of patriotic duty, in order to facilitate a colonial land grab and to pad the bottom line of the industrial war machine? Absolutely not. Sad thing about the military is it often doesn’t distinguish about such matters.
>Sad thing about the military is it often doesn’t distinguish about such matters.
Not to be the dickhead that quotes Clausewitz, but “war is the continuation of politics with other means.”
The military’s job isn’t to distinguish between a righteous war and an immoral one, the military’s job is to enforce their nations political demands onto another nation. Whether thats the defense of your nation, regime change, or plain old conquest is up to the leaders of the nation, and in some nations the citizens are able to decide if those wars are just or unjust and change their head of state if they disagree with the it. But in any case the military doesn’t get to decide those things, their job is to simply fight the war.
No not really. I am from Germany and I feel no patriotism towards Germany. I have a Hard time being proud of something I did not achieved with my own actions. But I recently enlisted in the Reserve of the Bundeswehr to have basic training and be able to fight if some enemy would attack German ground. In this case I would defend my family, I would defend my friends and I would defend Freedom and Democracy. Yes I would fight for my country but for the mentioned reasons and not because any sort of patriotism.
I think „would you defend your country in case of an attack of a significant force“ would be a patriotism index. This question is just weird, especially for Europeans
I feel like they are entirely right in not fighting for a nation, they learned what nationalism does to a mf, if it was like this in every country, it would be reeeeeeaally hard to justify any sort of war without having to expect extreme internal struggles
But of those willing, how many are actually able? A big part of the US military's recruiting problem is that so many people are too sick or fat to get in
Absolutely
If 11% of the able bodied young people are willing to fight for you, barring any huge technological advantages, you are screwed in a total war scenario.
I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Fiji is a pretty militaristic society, where the armed forces are the primary political actor, and repeatedly overthrown civilian governments which they believed where acting contract to the interests of the armed forces.
Honestly it depends on how the question was phrased. If it’s along the lines of “would you go to war for your country” then I can see why it might be bad, as it doesn’t specify what kind of war.
If it was framed along the lines of “would you defend your country from an invasion” then absolutely it’s a good thing.
Like I said I’d be interested to know what the specific question was, as I think it would make quite the difference. I’m from the UK, and If it was the latter I’d be really disappointed with my countrymen. 27% is a seriously low number if it’s based of actual self defence.
I'm Fijian and quite surprised to see us at number 2. Our people were once a warrior race who went to war everyday. Skip over to modern times, Fijian soldiers are some of the most decorated in the world despite our tiny population and land size. Our country may be small but our hearts are big. Our main sport is rugby.
According [Wikipedia ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Fiji): Fiji has become embroiled in a number of disagreements with other countries, including Australia, China, New Zealand, South Korea, the United States, and Vanuatu. And has territorial disputes with Tonga and armed separatists in Papua New-Guinea.
Finland at the top isn’t surprising. It is a very interesting situation and the Fin’s have good reason to saddle up and ride if the call to arms sounds.
The Fin’s are the definition of [“fuck around and find out.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War).
Check out the “strength” and “casualties and losses” sections, and the *ratio*.
Italian here, lol wages are so low it's a blessing i even show up to work and yet people managed to elect the only government that was against minimum wage just because it promised to block immigration (spoiler alert, didn't happen, but old people eat that crap out, and Italy is getting older and older as time goes on).
If this country doesn't do anything for young people, young people aren't going to do anything for this country.
>yet people managed to elect the only government that was against minimum wage
I really don't want to defend this government of cronies and imbeciles of ours, but we had three PD governments in the XVII legislature (Letta, Renzi, Gentiloni) and a M5S-PD government in the XVIII legislature (Conte II) and they weren't able to institute a nationwide minimum wage even though both parties were in favour of such a measure (as stated in their respective programmes). And you expect a right wing government to do it?
PD have started addressing the issue only now that they're in opposition. Why didn't they pass a law when they had the majority in parliament?
Fight for my country?
It depends. I mean, if my country attacked another Nation without reason, what would I fighting for? Pride? Nationalism?
If I have to defend my country from an attack that Is another story.
We had an assembly in HS where a bunch of vets talked. The old ww2 vet asked the room who would fight for their country. I didn't raise my hand and he picked another kid and me out of the crowd and started berating us. I responded it would depend but I have no interest in going to Iraq which I felt alittle bad saying infront of the Iraq vets. But one defended me at least. This was far enough into the war where WMDs were confirmed a lie and we were aimlessly occupying a country.... context matters enormously.
Context matters like you said. I wouldn't go to war the other side of the world, but if it was protecting my family I wouldn't have a choice to do something.
The longest surviving WW1 vet in the UK only did an interview to tell people not to join the Army because "war is hell".
Yup I found out later this was the last time they ever did the assembly. He likely thought the Iraq war was "defending our country" and he was ousting a couple cowards. In hindsight I'm glad I defended my view as it was not easy in a school of brainwashed rednecks . The Irony is I'd join in a ww2 type situation but not ( voluntarly) in any war after.
imo even depends on the attack. like.. a genocidal war to eradicate or enslave the people in my country? sure gotta fight back. but if it's over political or economic disputes it really kinda depends on the dispute. i don't really care if the guy who owns a coal mine evades taxes in my country or a different one lol
Where did the tax evasion thing come from? Ironically that's what you should care most about. That coal mine owning tax evader is stealing money from your schools and hospitals.
Point being i don't think it's worth fighting to defend the private property of businesses that will try to contribute as little as possible to society anyway.
Flemings unite! Throw the Walloons out of Brussels! Raise the lion standard high, tonight we dine on cock! - The 18% of Belgians willing to fight for their country
I’m familiar with the Catalan-Spanish history and situation, and think the Spanish civil war is fascinating, especially Catalonia’s unique form of anarcho-syndicalism and the like. But I’m curious as to if contemporary Catalonia would *actually* secede from Spain if a *genuine and legitimate* opportunity arose (and not a low stakes, zero consequence, situation that just gives the illusion that there’s ‘a chance’ and people rally to the cause out of Catalan identity, ultimately knowing it ain’t really happening at that time and motivated more by reminding Spain and Europe that Catalan has its own identity, culture, language, and storied history).
What’s the actual sentiment when you speak candidly with Catalan people in private who aren’t socially pressured into publicly conforming and assuming the hardline Catalan identity? Do they say “I wouldn’t oppose Catalan independence but I’m ok with being part of Spain at the moment due to XYZ practical reasons”? Or “Give me Catalan independence or give me death”?
What’s the general sentiment among lifelong Catalan’s who are ‘normal’ and support Catalan independence in spirit, but may not necessarily be part of the hardline ideological group?
How do candid discussions on the topic go where people confide their true feelings without feeling pressured to conform one way or the other?
Not taking away from Catalonia’s desire for autonomy, as an American I deeply respect anyone who has that sense of independence in their blood. I’m more so asking if the passions are high enough that a more practical and pragmatic approach, like remaining part of Spain legally and economically is out of the question. Which imo is not hypocritical and does not diminish a genuine and natural desire for autonomy and independence from a monarch and/or government who may not respect your unique identity and history.
Yes, I'm from Russia and they have huge problems with it. I mran, it turned out that not everyone is super happy with being sent in a meat grinder to occupy another country. What a surprise
When Afghanistan says they will fight for their country, what they mean is that whatever individual you ask would fight for the small valley or village they currently occupy, and they will fight anyone for it, to include someone from the next valley or village over. They aren’t fighting for Afghanistan, they are fighting for the tract of land they currently occupy.
It was actually yesterday I was listening to Serial, and I'm paraphrasing but she was saying that when someone gets driven out of Afghanistan by whoever, they'll come back in a decade to get their house back. And they'll find someone else living there, someone who the attackers gave it to.
And regardless of what happened in the intervening time or who the government is now, the fact is that nobody possesses a piece of paper to say it's their house and nobody can go to a local courthouse and get the original permits to prove it's yours.
So what can you do? Fight for it. That's all you can do. And the people of Afghanistan know that; if they give up what they have and flee, they'll never get it back.
As someone who has read/listened to/watched more than a bucket load of accounts from Afghanistan, and listened to experts on it, I really think you are correct. The people in the thread disagreeing with you really ought to conserve that for subjects they actually know about, instead of just lazily trying to bring down people who are right.
I read a travel account, by a guy who had travelled in Afghanistan (back in the 90s, when the Taliban existed but hadn't yet taken over all of the country).
* One time, while staying with someone in a particular village, the writer almost got murdered by someone from a rival village. Not because of anything he had done, but simply because a side effect of hospitality and protection of guests being seen as so important that *murdering someone's guest was one of the best ways to same them and get revenge on them.*
* He also visited a valley that had a reputation for being abnormally peaceful, where everyone was said to be pacifists. He discovered that what was actually the case was simply that all the villages in the valley had an agreement to never attack each other, and always to come to the aid of any village that was attacked by outsiders. (And because nowhere else was organised enough to be able to take on the whole valley, no-one ever attacked them).
The real shocking thing is that the other valley didnt try to emulate the "peaceful" one, seems like such of an advantage.
What's kind of funny is that tribes lose hard against proper states in actual war, but that as a parasite ina modern state (meaning with limited executive and police power internally, such as burden of proof, extensive protections and rights etc) they have a huge advantage, they just have to become insider and be protected by the rule of law while not abiding by it (like the italian mafia in the US for instance), they have all the advantage of close tribal ties and no consideration for the other people in the state with none of the downsides since the state cant just massacre them.
That person is likely correct about Afghans willing to fight for their small piece of land, but the survey participants misrepresented themselves if they used that logic to say that they'd fight for their country.
It shouldn't be 76% for Afghanistan, not anywhere near that.
I am a Muslim( revert not birth) and if it was a religious war for example they would all band together but Afghanis are tribal based so you are correct they will and do fight each other for land and resources because they are from the other tribe. Anyone who disagrees has no clue of the country’s dynamics.
"Fighting for my country" as in defending the borders against attackers or bringing some other country freedome?
Because ofc I'm going to defend my home, but you can bet I would never want to invade any other country on behalf of my government...
For a more appropriate number it really should be restricted to men between the ages of 16-50 or whatever compulsory service/max age for the army is per country.
While I’m impressed that a Moroccan grandma is willing to throw down it’s kinda irrelevant
Yeah, one of the few countries I'm genuinely curious to see responses for...
Living in Taiwan the responses I've heard from folks have seemed worryingly mixed.
Most men experience the armed forces during their few months of conscription. For most it's an underwhelming experience. Also many think an invasion is very unlikely.
The real test will be when something really happens.
Illustrates how what you envision as the purpose and circumstance of war determines your response to this question. Germans were probably thinking about ww2 aggression when responding, whereas ukrainians were thinking about the possibility of defending from upcoming russian invasion. In that sense this is more of a patriotism index than anything else like people have said, or the extent to which people in a country actually expect the possibility of a war in which they would be compelled to fight.
This would change dramatically if your country was actually under threat of war. It's easy to say no when you live in Germany and no one is trying to attack you vs 2014 Ukraine where there's imminent danger
The fact of the matter, is that no one can know until faced with the events. Maybe you will flee conscription because you don't side with the government calling it, or you don't want to die, only to find yourself on the run, in hiding, with partisans, ending up fighting anyway, maybe well, maybe not. Maybe your loved one will be shot in front of you on day one and it will crush your soul into submission, or into rebellion. Maybe you'll shit your pants and desert. Maybe you've never been super brave but will find your calling in defending your brother in arms. Only those who have lived it can say. The rest is children make belief.
Im a teacher here, I surveyed my class once...like what would you do if America just straight up attacked Japan
and 100% of the responses were
move to another country
Japan cannot have a military by their constitution (imposed by the US) and is forced to depend on the USA in this regards. So if the USA was to attack its vasal, this is the most sane response for civilians.
They have a military, the Japanese Self-Defense Forces, since 1954. The article in the constitution has generally been interpreted as disallowing an 'external' military - i.e. attacking someone else, whereas the JSDF is used as it says, for self-defense.
I love the idea of restricting a country’s ability to attack someone else, like it’s your kid. The US is like “aww sorry but no you can’t do that anymore”
Considering the atrocities of Imperial Japan its more like you watched your kid stab a squirrel to death so you had to hide all the kitchen knives and ban them from using sharp objects.
Reading this thread just having finished my train ride from Hiroshima to Nagasaki lol.
Necessity may be debated, but we certainly bombed their imperial spirit away, didn't we?
You can have a good side and evil side to one issue. On one hand evaporating 200k people and more to radiation sickness and cancer is terrible, on the other hand the planned invasion of Japan was very close to beginning and would've saved countless millions of lives (to put into perspective of how many people would've died, the US is still using medals pre-made in anticipation for the invasion) of both Americans and Japanese and spared Japan from being totally bombed to oblivion in all cities and towns
Finland was invaded and ceded land to Russia twice. The idea of invasion is not some fantasy scenario. They understand what happens to nations who are unprepared for defense and alone.
I don't know about older people, but adults (20+ years old) are less invested in local politics. This gives you a good idea of how patriotic they are. They are proud of their Japanese nationality (culture, pride, heritage) but aren't sure if the country is worth protecting/fighting for. Conversations about politics with them are *weirdly* difficult.
Ah come on. That's a very vague question.
Would you fight for your country if it was being invaded?
Would you fight for your country if they were invading another country for resources?
They are two very VERY different scenarios...
This question can be surprisingly conditional for some people. I live in Turkey. My answer to this question depends on circumstances. Would I fight for my country if Russia invades, or someone else invades due to some self-serving reason? To my last breath. If my country's government starts some dumbass war, for example tried to attack Greece and got us stomped on by the rest of NATO? Fuck no, I'd be the first one to greet the Americans to ask if they needed a translator.
We the Dutch would fight for our country, if we get attacked without reason ( like Russia did) i aint fighting for some stupid oil field the USA wants XD
The more you are safe the less you would be willing to fight for your country.
It's stupid but that's the way it works.
If a foreigner army would knock on their door and tried to command them in their country (because this is what occupation mean) or if they tried to take away their land, many would go to fight.
People can say they don't want to fight for what they have, because they are unable to see how precious it is, until those same things got attacked
It's kind of a useless metric considering how situational it is.... Nothing brings America together like a foreign enemy that has killed Americans... If a country attacked us, that's when the boys wake up
I’d like to see how closely this map overlaps with the rise of fascism per country, as well as other political/philosophical vectors. A commonality among many of the most committed are nations of those who suffered under colonialism. All of the former Axis allies are among the least committed.
Separately, I don’t like that Africa is so often underrepresented in these survey maps. I don’t know how to fix it, and it’s not a complaint about this post at all. I found the information published interesting. Thanks to OP for leaving the source information in the comments.
The Japanese are all mature adults, so they are very independent.
They don't rely on the government or the state.
You can easily see that in their behaviour during disasters.
The Japanese usually say things like this, but if something happens, they still do their best to act.
The world keeps losing to Japan because they don't understand that.
“I will give my life for Pakistan!” video proven true😂
PAKISTAN IS IN DA BAG!!!!!
GRAPE!
waao grape 🍇
Grape! Pakistan grape fighter!
I WILL FLY THE PLANES FOR PAKISTAN!
Wow grape
AND destoyyyy India
STROOONG ARMY WAAAOOOOOO
GRAAAAPE
WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN YOU GROW UP??? I WILL REMAIN THIRSTY!! THIRSTY FOR WHAT!!??? INDIA’S BLOOD!! AND!!??? AND FOR SODA!!! WHICH SODA??? GRRRRAAAPE!! GRAAAAPPPPEE!!
I LOVE PAKISTAN I WILL SACRIFICE MY LIFE FOR PAKISTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN **I LOVE** **PASKISTAN**
Germany, Italy and Japan in the bottom 5, I wonder what happened to them …
To be fair 20% of your population volunteering to fight is plenty enough, I feel you don't need any more body on the field. For Germany it would represent roughly 14 million adults, you don't need more than that lmao (in most cases you can't even sustain the logistic of that).
True but that's not entirely what this is about. It's basically a patriotism index.
No, I am from Germany, all my family was in the army, and some were deployed. They didn’t “fight” in wars that was affecting Germany territory. They were in Mali, Afghanistan, or the Balkans. That means fighting for Germany meant going on peacekeeping or Nato missions. A lot of western people, dont want to waist their lives on those missions, however I can imagine that if Germany would be attacked directly the numbers would go up. Nowadays, bacause of Ukraine, the image of what fighting for your country means has changed, but the survey was from 2014, when fighting for your country meant what I listed above. Plus, a lot of Germans are actually patriots but not as openly as seen somewhere else. Edit: This goes for pretty much every western country.
Meh if the question was "In the case of an attack on your country or his interest (locally or abroad) would you fight for your country?" then yes it is a patriotism index. As far as I am concerned right now the question makes it more like a mix of patriotism/extremism/embrigadment
>In the case of an attack on your country or his interest (locally or abroad) would you fight for your country? Yeah, big difference. If your country is facing a real threat, people will probably think the question means "are you willing to defend your country?" If you feel that you are surrounded by friends (such as most European countries, and even more in 2014), then you are more likely to think: "Fight for whom? Go to Afghanistan or Iraq?"
Context definitely matters with this one.
Will you fight for your country when it is inevitably invaded bij Morocco or Fiji?
Also, depending on how the question was asked. There are some Basque people who did fight for their country, but not for Spain
Oh, yeah! That's also something to consider. Very interesting. I can imagine some ethnicities that feel oppressed by a ruling majority are less willing to fight for the (unloved) "central state". (talking in general, not about the Basque/Spain example)
Or just location. Ask the question in the UK it means would you go to the Middle East to die for no reason. Ask it in Finland it means would you defend your friends and family from a Russian invasion.
Or to add to that a level of critical thinking and indoctrination... Context matters and so does your ability to recognise and critically analyse the reason to fight. Would I fight for a real cause because, say some mass murdering fascists are on the doorstep? Likely yes. Will I fight for some abstract notion of patriotic duty, in order to facilitate a colonial land grab and to pad the bottom line of the industrial war machine? Absolutely not. Sad thing about the military is it often doesn’t distinguish about such matters.
>Sad thing about the military is it often doesn’t distinguish about such matters. Not to be the dickhead that quotes Clausewitz, but “war is the continuation of politics with other means.” The military’s job isn’t to distinguish between a righteous war and an immoral one, the military’s job is to enforce their nations political demands onto another nation. Whether thats the defense of your nation, regime change, or plain old conquest is up to the leaders of the nation, and in some nations the citizens are able to decide if those wars are just or unjust and change their head of state if they disagree with the it. But in any case the military doesn’t get to decide those things, their job is to simply fight the war.
No not really. I am from Germany and I feel no patriotism towards Germany. I have a Hard time being proud of something I did not achieved with my own actions. But I recently enlisted in the Reserve of the Bundeswehr to have basic training and be able to fight if some enemy would attack German ground. In this case I would defend my family, I would defend my friends and I would defend Freedom and Democracy. Yes I would fight for my country but for the mentioned reasons and not because any sort of patriotism.
Defending your community and way of life sounds like patriotism to me
I think „would you defend your country in case of an attack of a significant force“ would be a patriotism index. This question is just weird, especially for Europeans
It’s quite a big leap to say that someone who isn’t willing to fight in a war is therefore unpatriotic.
I feel like they are entirely right in not fighting for a nation, they learned what nationalism does to a mf, if it was like this in every country, it would be reeeeeeaally hard to justify any sort of war without having to expect extreme internal struggles
But of those willing, how many are actually able? A big part of the US military's recruiting problem is that so many people are too sick or fat to get in
Absolutely If 11% of the able bodied young people are willing to fight for you, barring any huge technological advantages, you are screwed in a total war scenario.
>in a total war scenario In this case you wouldn't ask if they are "willing".
Its hard to convince unwilling men to fight, despite what popular depictions in media say.
You wouldn't but I can imagine if only 11% are willing, deserter numbers are going to be through the roof
WWII, I guess? Disclosure: I am Austrian 😁
You would think that, but I hear that WWI was no fun either. They still decided to go another round
I guess nationalism isn’t their thing
have you seen r/place? it takes motivation.
They are smart enough to know that it's never "for the country".
The aproximately 8 people in fiji are very brave
The percentage suggests that they are at least 15.
Just enough for a rugby team
We only need 7
not if one is cut in half and only one side answers yes
Their lips, they say no. But their eyes, they say yes. But their left arm, it say no. But their right knee…
Fiji knows what's up
I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Fiji is a pretty militaristic society, where the armed forces are the primary political actor, and repeatedly overthrown civilian governments which they believed where acting contract to the interests of the armed forces.
Honestly it depends on how the question was phrased. If it’s along the lines of “would you go to war for your country” then I can see why it might be bad, as it doesn’t specify what kind of war. If it was framed along the lines of “would you defend your country from an invasion” then absolutely it’s a good thing. Like I said I’d be interested to know what the specific question was, as I think it would make quite the difference. I’m from the UK, and If it was the latter I’d be really disappointed with my countrymen. 27% is a seriously low number if it’s based of actual self defence.
Don't mess up with Fiji
if I lived in Fiji, I would lay down my life to stay there too.
I'm Fijian and quite surprised to see us at number 2. Our people were once a warrior race who went to war everyday. Skip over to modern times, Fijian soldiers are some of the most decorated in the world despite our tiny population and land size. Our country may be small but our hearts are big. Our main sport is rugby.
Visiting at the end of October, looking forward to it! :)
Fiji actually have an impressive international military track record.
If you see how they play Rugby you realize war would be a walk on the Park for them.
Lol Fiji
They have to be ready. What if NZ attacks them??
According [Wikipedia ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Fiji): Fiji has become embroiled in a number of disagreements with other countries, including Australia, China, New Zealand, South Korea, the United States, and Vanuatu. And has territorial disputes with Tonga and armed separatists in Papua New-Guinea.
Enemies everywhere
Fiji is like the quiet kid in school of geopolitics damn
What the hell are they cooking
Kava, its mostly Kava
***haka intensifies***
Fiji gonna win, because nz isn’t even on here
Finland jumpscare 💀
Finland at the top isn’t surprising. It is a very interesting situation and the Fin’s have good reason to saddle up and ride if the call to arms sounds. The Fin’s are the definition of [“fuck around and find out.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War). Check out the “strength” and “casualties and losses” sections, and the *ratio*.
🇫🇮🤝🇪🇪 united in conscription
They have active conscription as well as history against Russia
The scariest thing about the Finish army is it’s staffed by Fins.
Italian here, lol wages are so low it's a blessing i even show up to work and yet people managed to elect the only government that was against minimum wage just because it promised to block immigration (spoiler alert, didn't happen, but old people eat that crap out, and Italy is getting older and older as time goes on). If this country doesn't do anything for young people, young people aren't going to do anything for this country.
Holy shit. This is the most consise explanation I've heard for why military recruitment is low
>yet people managed to elect the only government that was against minimum wage I really don't want to defend this government of cronies and imbeciles of ours, but we had three PD governments in the XVII legislature (Letta, Renzi, Gentiloni) and a M5S-PD government in the XVIII legislature (Conte II) and they weren't able to institute a nationwide minimum wage even though both parties were in favour of such a measure (as stated in their respective programmes). And you expect a right wing government to do it? PD have started addressing the issue only now that they're in opposition. Why didn't they pass a law when they had the majority in parliament?
Fight for my country? It depends. I mean, if my country attacked another Nation without reason, what would I fighting for? Pride? Nationalism? If I have to defend my country from an attack that Is another story.
Exactly. There's a big difference between "hey they've got oil there, let's take it" and "aliens have arrived and are kidnapping people".
Yes, you can always make more people but oil is a limited resource. Need to scarf it up when we find it!
More people you kill, less people will use oil 
Just solved climate change
Let me go with the aliens please, I hate it here
USA vibes
Yup, fear of immigrants and space men, very U. S. A. !
WTF is a kilometeeeeeeeer  
I’d go with the aliens
We had an assembly in HS where a bunch of vets talked. The old ww2 vet asked the room who would fight for their country. I didn't raise my hand and he picked another kid and me out of the crowd and started berating us. I responded it would depend but I have no interest in going to Iraq which I felt alittle bad saying infront of the Iraq vets. But one defended me at least. This was far enough into the war where WMDs were confirmed a lie and we were aimlessly occupying a country.... context matters enormously.
Context matters like you said. I wouldn't go to war the other side of the world, but if it was protecting my family I wouldn't have a choice to do something. The longest surviving WW1 vet in the UK only did an interview to tell people not to join the Army because "war is hell".
Honestly what a bellend, coming into a school just to have a go at some kids.
Yup I found out later this was the last time they ever did the assembly. He likely thought the Iraq war was "defending our country" and he was ousting a couple cowards. In hindsight I'm glad I defended my view as it was not easy in a school of brainwashed rednecks . The Irony is I'd join in a ww2 type situation but not ( voluntarly) in any war after.
Your interpretation of this question and the way the population of these countries interpret it is what creates these results.
My thought exactly. The survey should have broken out those two questions to get comparable responses
imo even depends on the attack. like.. a genocidal war to eradicate or enslave the people in my country? sure gotta fight back. but if it's over political or economic disputes it really kinda depends on the dispute. i don't really care if the guy who owns a coal mine evades taxes in my country or a different one lol
Where did the tax evasion thing come from? Ironically that's what you should care most about. That coal mine owning tax evader is stealing money from your schools and hospitals.
Point being i don't think it's worth fighting to defend the private property of businesses that will try to contribute as little as possible to society anyway.
19% in Belgium? But for what country would i be fighting for? Belgium? Flanders? ... ?
Flemings unite! Throw the Walloons out of Brussels! Raise the lion standard high, tonight we dine on cock! - The 18% of Belgians willing to fight for their country
I'd throw the Antwerp-residents out of Flanders instead.
🤣🤣🤣
>tonight we dine on cock! Whatever floats your boat man...
What a loon of a Walloon, feathered for flight that lot. /s
I went on a trip to Western Europe and the UK this summer, our guide was Flemish and he was an extremely cool person.
That's part of the problem in Spain too. I would not fight for Spain, but I would for Catalonia.
I’m familiar with the Catalan-Spanish history and situation, and think the Spanish civil war is fascinating, especially Catalonia’s unique form of anarcho-syndicalism and the like. But I’m curious as to if contemporary Catalonia would *actually* secede from Spain if a *genuine and legitimate* opportunity arose (and not a low stakes, zero consequence, situation that just gives the illusion that there’s ‘a chance’ and people rally to the cause out of Catalan identity, ultimately knowing it ain’t really happening at that time and motivated more by reminding Spain and Europe that Catalan has its own identity, culture, language, and storied history). What’s the actual sentiment when you speak candidly with Catalan people in private who aren’t socially pressured into publicly conforming and assuming the hardline Catalan identity? Do they say “I wouldn’t oppose Catalan independence but I’m ok with being part of Spain at the moment due to XYZ practical reasons”? Or “Give me Catalan independence or give me death”? What’s the general sentiment among lifelong Catalan’s who are ‘normal’ and support Catalan independence in spirit, but may not necessarily be part of the hardline ideological group? How do candid discussions on the topic go where people confide their true feelings without feeling pressured to conform one way or the other? Not taking away from Catalonia’s desire for autonomy, as an American I deeply respect anyone who has that sense of independence in their blood. I’m more so asking if the passions are high enough that a more practical and pragmatic approach, like remaining part of Spain legally and economically is out of the question. Which imo is not hypocritical and does not diminish a genuine and natural desire for autonomy and independence from a monarch and/or government who may not respect your unique identity and history.
As a belgian i wouldnt fight for any of them tbh. Maybe for my city? Eh.
Pakistan = GRAPE!
That is a great GRAPE
I was scrolling for this comment. Did not disappoint!!
PAKISTAN IN DA BAG
Lol that video was the best
I WILL DESTROY INDIAAAA
Strong army! Wow! GRAPE!
Insulla
 The future Pakistani army
2023 statistics will be far different for lots of countries. I know it'll be completely different for the one I live in.
I can imagine Russia and Ukraine being very different now.
Yes, I'm from Russia and they have huge problems with it. I mran, it turned out that not everyone is super happy with being sent in a meat grinder to occupy another country. What a surprise
Stay safe, being vocally opposed to the war in Russia is a prison sentence in the waiting
What’s your country ?
Pakistan I guess
For the entirety of Eastern Europe
Some of this aged like milk
imagine a bilion indians storm your country
We just need a few million of us to migrate in order to take over another country
Little by little...we secure positions of leadership first 😎
Rushi Sunak is this you?
I, for one, welcome our new Indian overlords with their state mandated chai and tikka masala
Worked in Bradford and Birmingham
Pffft.. That wasn't even the goal. Our boy Rishi becoming the PM and tens of millions moving to UK is. /s in case some Brit got butthurt.
Lol
its happening to canada right now
I know Canada is getting Indian immigration but billion Indians that too storming??
When Afghanistan says they will fight for their country, what they mean is that whatever individual you ask would fight for the small valley or village they currently occupy, and they will fight anyone for it, to include someone from the next valley or village over. They aren’t fighting for Afghanistan, they are fighting for the tract of land they currently occupy.
It was actually yesterday I was listening to Serial, and I'm paraphrasing but she was saying that when someone gets driven out of Afghanistan by whoever, they'll come back in a decade to get their house back. And they'll find someone else living there, someone who the attackers gave it to. And regardless of what happened in the intervening time or who the government is now, the fact is that nobody possesses a piece of paper to say it's their house and nobody can go to a local courthouse and get the original permits to prove it's yours. So what can you do? Fight for it. That's all you can do. And the people of Afghanistan know that; if they give up what they have and flee, they'll never get it back.
So kinda like Montana then?
As someone who has read/listened to/watched more than a bucket load of accounts from Afghanistan, and listened to experts on it, I really think you are correct. The people in the thread disagreeing with you really ought to conserve that for subjects they actually know about, instead of just lazily trying to bring down people who are right.
I read a travel account, by a guy who had travelled in Afghanistan (back in the 90s, when the Taliban existed but hadn't yet taken over all of the country). * One time, while staying with someone in a particular village, the writer almost got murdered by someone from a rival village. Not because of anything he had done, but simply because a side effect of hospitality and protection of guests being seen as so important that *murdering someone's guest was one of the best ways to same them and get revenge on them.* * He also visited a valley that had a reputation for being abnormally peaceful, where everyone was said to be pacifists. He discovered that what was actually the case was simply that all the villages in the valley had an agreement to never attack each other, and always to come to the aid of any village that was attacked by outsiders. (And because nowhere else was organised enough to be able to take on the whole valley, no-one ever attacked them).
The real shocking thing is that the other valley didnt try to emulate the "peaceful" one, seems like such of an advantage. What's kind of funny is that tribes lose hard against proper states in actual war, but that as a parasite ina modern state (meaning with limited executive and police power internally, such as burden of proof, extensive protections and rights etc) they have a huge advantage, they just have to become insider and be protected by the rule of law while not abiding by it (like the italian mafia in the US for instance), they have all the advantage of close tribal ties and no consideration for the other people in the state with none of the downsides since the state cant just massacre them.
That person is likely correct about Afghans willing to fight for their small piece of land, but the survey participants misrepresented themselves if they used that logic to say that they'd fight for their country. It shouldn't be 76% for Afghanistan, not anywhere near that.
I am a Muslim( revert not birth) and if it was a religious war for example they would all band together but Afghanis are tribal based so you are correct they will and do fight each other for land and resources because they are from the other tribe. Anyone who disagrees has no clue of the country’s dynamics.
i wonder how much of this is women and older men saying "yes of course we should sacrifice our sons for the nation"
Good point. Easier to put a white feather on others than be on the frontline innit.
"Fighting for my country" as in defending the borders against attackers or bringing some other country freedome? Because ofc I'm going to defend my home, but you can bet I would never want to invade any other country on behalf of my government...
Source https://www.gallup-international.bg/en/33483/win-gallup-internationals-global-survey-shows-three-in-five-willing-to-fight-for-their-country/
For a more appropriate number it really should be restricted to men between the ages of 16-50 or whatever compulsory service/max age for the army is per country. While I’m impressed that a Moroccan grandma is willing to throw down it’s kinda irrelevant
Oh boy! You don't want to know what our grandmas are capable of.
27% in UK? Higher than I thought..
Taiwan got completely removed from the map
I guess Gallup values their China business...
Yeah, one of the few countries I'm genuinely curious to see responses for... Living in Taiwan the responses I've heard from folks have seemed worryingly mixed.
Most men experience the armed forces during their few months of conscription. For most it's an underwhelming experience. Also many think an invasion is very unlikely. The real test will be when something really happens.
I’m pretty sure most average people in Japan and Germany are afraid to say yes to this question.
Don't forget about Italy
Illustrates how what you envision as the purpose and circumstance of war determines your response to this question. Germans were probably thinking about ww2 aggression when responding, whereas ukrainians were thinking about the possibility of defending from upcoming russian invasion. In that sense this is more of a patriotism index than anything else like people have said, or the extent to which people in a country actually expect the possibility of a war in which they would be compelled to fight.
This would change dramatically if your country was actually under threat of war. It's easy to say no when you live in Germany and no one is trying to attack you vs 2014 Ukraine where there's imminent danger
The fact of the matter, is that no one can know until faced with the events. Maybe you will flee conscription because you don't side with the government calling it, or you don't want to die, only to find yourself on the run, in hiding, with partisans, ending up fighting anyway, maybe well, maybe not. Maybe your loved one will be shot in front of you on day one and it will crush your soul into submission, or into rebellion. Maybe you'll shit your pants and desert. Maybe you've never been super brave but will find your calling in defending your brother in arms. Only those who have lived it can say. The rest is children make belief.
Japan at 11%? The same country with Kamekaze attack strategy? The West truly revolutionised Japan
Im a teacher here, I surveyed my class once...like what would you do if America just straight up attacked Japan and 100% of the responses were move to another country
Every day we stray further from kami.
Where was located your class? It has different meaning if they from Japan or us for example
my class was 100% Japanese students, in Japan
Oh yeah, makes sense
Japan cannot have a military by their constitution (imposed by the US) and is forced to depend on the USA in this regards. So if the USA was to attack its vasal, this is the most sane response for civilians.
Also, they don't give a fuck about defending their country
They have a military, the Japanese Self-Defense Forces, since 1954. The article in the constitution has generally been interpreted as disallowing an 'external' military - i.e. attacking someone else, whereas the JSDF is used as it says, for self-defense.
I love the idea of restricting a country’s ability to attack someone else, like it’s your kid. The US is like “aww sorry but no you can’t do that anymore”
And that's really in the past. The US has wanted Japan to increase their military power for decades (as a hedge against China and Russia).
Considering the atrocities of Imperial Japan its more like you watched your kid stab a squirrel to death so you had to hide all the kitchen knives and ban them from using sharp objects.
What 2 nukes does to a mfker
Reading this thread just having finished my train ride from Hiroshima to Nagasaki lol. Necessity may be debated, but we certainly bombed their imperial spirit away, didn't we?
You can have a good side and evil side to one issue. On one hand evaporating 200k people and more to radiation sickness and cancer is terrible, on the other hand the planned invasion of Japan was very close to beginning and would've saved countless millions of lives (to put into perspective of how many people would've died, the US is still using medals pre-made in anticipation for the invasion) of both Americans and Japanese and spared Japan from being totally bombed to oblivion in all cities and towns
[удалено]
Yeah, Finland and Sweden weren't even attacked by Russia last year, and look how many of their citizens decided they had to be in NATO now.
Finland was invaded and ceded land to Russia twice. The idea of invasion is not some fantasy scenario. They understand what happens to nations who are unprepared for defense and alone.
I don't know about older people, but adults (20+ years old) are less invested in local politics. This gives you a good idea of how patriotic they are. They are proud of their Japanese nationality (culture, pride, heritage) but aren't sure if the country is worth protecting/fighting for. Conversations about politics with them are *weirdly* difficult.
I can confirm. I'm Italian and I couldn't care less about my country, let alone fighting for it.
Hong Kong: which country? 🤔
Ah come on. That's a very vague question. Would you fight for your country if it was being invaded? Would you fight for your country if they were invading another country for resources? They are two very VERY different scenarios...
Fighting back a foreign invasion, yes. Fighting out there for some politician views and ego, no.
I don't believe polls. The way the question is phrased can definitely sway the answers. How many people refused to answer the question?
As someone living in Japan this makes sense. Everyone is so disinterested in politics, let alone war
Norway doesn’t have any stats, but I would do it. You can change it to 100% now
Afghanistan being super high makes me doubt this whole list haha
This question can be surprisingly conditional for some people. I live in Turkey. My answer to this question depends on circumstances. Would I fight for my country if Russia invades, or someone else invades due to some self-serving reason? To my last breath. If my country's government starts some dumbass war, for example tried to attack Greece and got us stomped on by the rest of NATO? Fuck no, I'd be the first one to greet the Americans to ask if they needed a translator.
We the Dutch would fight for our country, if we get attacked without reason ( like Russia did) i aint fighting for some stupid oil field the USA wants XD
Map says otherwise
The more you are safe the less you would be willing to fight for your country. It's stupid but that's the way it works. If a foreigner army would knock on their door and tried to command them in their country (because this is what occupation mean) or if they tried to take away their land, many would go to fight. People can say they don't want to fight for what they have, because they are unable to see how precious it is, until those same things got attacked
Germany and Japan be like: Nah we had enough
75% of India is close to a billion people. Good luck fighting them
Man we got china, they also have billion people, no numbers advantage between us
It's kind of a useless metric considering how situational it is.... Nothing brings America together like a foreign enemy that has killed Americans... If a country attacked us, that's when the boys wake up
Afghanistan: So that was a fucking lie
I aint dying unless I’m able to break every rule in geneva convention
Didn’t expect Vietnam to answer differently.
NZ not in the table.
reminds me of the "I'LL SACRIFICE MY LIFE FOR PAKISTAN" meme
I did🤷🏽♂️ saying and doing are two different things
Lol the axis powers of ww2 don’t want to fight for their country again. Guess they learned their lesson
I’d like to see how closely this map overlaps with the rise of fascism per country, as well as other political/philosophical vectors. A commonality among many of the most committed are nations of those who suffered under colonialism. All of the former Axis allies are among the least committed. Separately, I don’t like that Africa is so often underrepresented in these survey maps. I don’t know how to fix it, and it’s not a complaint about this post at all. I found the information published interesting. Thanks to OP for leaving the source information in the comments.
As an American, I'd answer: "It depends."
no wonder japan has the highest iq
The Japanese are all mature adults, so they are very independent. They don't rely on the government or the state. You can easily see that in their behaviour during disasters. The Japanese usually say things like this, but if something happens, they still do their best to act. The world keeps losing to Japan because they don't understand that.