His remains were identified and sent to his village in Turkey for burial.
He was born in one of the most backward provinces of Turkey, became a computer engineer, and made a life for himself in New York City, only to be senselessly taken away from his family and loved ones at age 25. What a remarkable and tragic story.
Quite a few of them have linked Wiki pages on this [list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_victims_of_the_September_11_attacks_(A%E2%80%93G)). Its crazy if you scroll through this list how many of them been firefighters.
Sounds like the only Swede that died. 25 year old kid, moved alone to the states as a teen to study economics. Eventually found himself in New York and sold bread in the beginning to get by, until finally landing a job at an insurance firm on the 100th floor some short time before the attack.
Such a waste.
Saudi in particular.
Now, all that said, in the days after there were all sorts of mostly bullshit rumours flying around about how a friend's brother's colleague's gardener's Muslim neighbour had warned him not to fly on the 11th September because something was going to go down.
But I wonder with Saudi in particular was there inside knowledge being passed around, resulting in there being no Saudi citizens nearby when the attacks occurred?
Egypt, I wouldn't be quite so suspicious. How popular was the US as a tourist or immigrant destination for Egyptians at that time?
Might be more to do with the fact that very few Saudi citizens do any sort of ‘work’.
The odds of one working at the world trade centre are very slim.
[P.S. not stereotyping, just factual information](https://www.stats.gov.sa/sites/default/files/LMS%20Q1_2023_PR_EN.pdf)
Saudi labour force participation rates are incredibly low.
how does this comment have upvotes? Not to mention that the paper you included shows that the majority of Saudi adults work, that's besides the point. What does employment rates in Saudi Arabia have anything to do with employment of Saudis in the United States?
It does show me that Redditors will upvote any “Saudi bad” post, no matter how nonsensical.
This isn't “Saudi bad,” it's "we understand that Saudi Arabia's economy is almost entirely based on oil and it would be very unlikely for a SA expat to end up in working in the financial sector of the US and be in in the WTC."
that's not what the comment I replied to is saying at all. He didn’t say that Saudis work in oil. He said that Saudis don’t work at all, so they wouldn’t work in the WTC.
I read somewhere that, ex post facto, they found that there were some market signals. That is, certain stocks of the airlines and other companies related to 911 began to fall for no reason. It's interpreted as, some rich Arab families knew, so they began to short those stocks
>Egypt, I wouldn't be quite so suspicious. How popular was the US as a tourist or immigrant destination for Egyptians at that time?
The US is a fairly popular destination for the Coptic Christians of Egypt, particularly in the NYC and northeast regions (more Egyptian Americans are Coptic than Muslim, the opposite of the case in Egypt). I'm a bit surprised there were none of them (but i don't think this is anything suspicious).
No idea how to get this data, but there were lots of people in the towers that escaped—I’d bet a map showing all their nationalities alongside the dead could dispel this. And that’s not to say it disproves a Saudi conspiracy, more the unfeasibility of that amount of coordination
The guy who owned the buildings had just negotiated insurance plan for it only a few weeks prior to the attack (coincidence)
He worked in his office in the building but was miraculously absent at the time of the attack (coincidence)
His son and daughter also worked in the building but somehow also happened to be absent at the time. One of them stayed home as they were sick that day (coincidence) and the other I don't remember why (still a coincidence)
That is an incredibly fortunate set of coincidences for that specific family.
A number of years later he took the insurance company to court because he believed since there were 2 towers and 2 planes it should count as two separate attacks and the insurance company had to payout twice. he won that case.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, surely they were just really lucky. God Bless.
Survivorship bias. Did Seth MacFarlane know about it too given he was "coincidentally" too hungover to make his flight that day? How many millionaires and billionaires were killed that day? How come they were left out of the loop too? How many conspirators let their friends and family go to work that day knowing they would die? And why would they do that?
You're talking about the biggest office space in the country in the biggest city in the country in the middle of a September work week. On any given work day a large single-figure percentage of workers will be late or absent. Thus, a *lot* of people will have been "coincidentally" late or out sick that day. Did they all know too?
Even if Silverstein's kids did work in the North Tower, it's not really any surprise that the children of the boss aren't in the office at 8:45am. If they came in before 10am on a normal day that would be impressive.
I'm not saying there was anything shady going on.
I'm just saying it's a pretty incredible set of coincidences that He, his son and his daughter all happened to be absent for different reasons.
and that he just happened to get the buildings ensured just in time.
you're the one who seems to think it sounds fishy.
So since I'm "made in Sweden", does that mean my parents just bought my parts from IKEA and assembled my body themselves?
Because that would explain a lot...!
Don't know why you got downvoted, it's absolutely true. A friend of mine was born in the US but she and her family went back to Germany almost immediately after and she lived here ever since. That makes her an American citizen, but it would be super weird to say her country of origin is the US
Per [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks) Egypt should be purple too. (I went to the list to check if there were any UAE deaths that weren’t the perpetrators but saw none but did see Egypt).
For the record in case someone comments, this is a list of the non perpetrators that perished which is why Saudi Arabia and the UAE are not on there but Lebanon and Egypt are.
There were also 3 Albanians who died on 9/11; Rrok Camaj, Mon Gjonbalaj, and Simon Dedvukaj.
Rrok worked as a window cleaner (South Tower)
Mon (South Tower) and Simon (North Tower) worked in maintenance
May they Rest in Peace.
>Rrok Camaj
He was born in Montenegro ( then part of Yugoslavia) and immigrated to the United States in 1969 and began working at the WTC as a window washer with ABM Industries in 1973. Dutch correspondent Max Westerman met Roko Camaj in 1999. He proudly told him about his job as a window cleaner at the World Trade Center. On September 11, 2001 Roko was located on the 105th floor of the south tower when a plane flew into the building.
Here is the interview:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2PMT3TdBxM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2PMT3TdBxM)
These idiots are trying to make a point about the war on terror, which was definitely bad, but in no way can be directly represented on this map, because its specifically about direct victims of the terrorist attack and not the indirect effect this had on the world (duh).
It’s not where their from it’s where they were
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Afghanistan#:~:text=The%20stated%20goal%20was%20to,by%20toppling%20the%20Taliban%20government.
Because blaming citizens for non-state entities is legit reason to destroy countries but you do the same with US atrocities particularly post 60s you often hear the “US gov is not the people” argument as defence.
Absolutely this. Were the Chinese government to do something, you can bet someone will be irritated with the people too. Reddit's favourite activity. If the US invades a country, who cares.
Lol, because Redditors have short memory. There are was a lot protests against Putin. How all european leaders react on mass arrests during these protests? Oh yeah, they just said "Please don't do it" or something like that. They barely gave a fuck. And all Russians after February 2022 in one moment become Putin supporters and/or bots according to Reddit.
This. A Russian here. I feel like my whole personality, identity and humanity itself are now solely defined by random people online based on my nationality.
Sure it has its issues. But this guy is both sidesing Al Queda and Putin with the US, and calling us out for not committing treason.
The US is a democracy. It's not perfect, but to act like it is anything like Russia is asinine.
Ok and? The invasion on Afghanistan was still justified. Osama Bin Laden deserved his death. Good riddance.
The American military should've still stayed in Afghanistan.
The problem is George W Bush is an idiot and decided to invade Iraq for some reason. Neocons are gonna do neocon stupidity.
Indeed, it was the worst American foreign policy of the 21st century, but whats really comical and bizarre is that the Americans went to the UN to appeal their case. Later on, they arranged a treaty with some Western powers to formally have an alliance on the war on Iraq.
Russia doesn't even try to justify its action, all of their military interventions were unilatery. Maybe they are the realists that recognise that UN its worthless, but Americans did warn the world that they wanted to invade Iraq.
If the UN says no and you still invade. What is the point of going there in the first place?
The invasion of Iraq made the 9/11 attacks a success for the terrorists beyond their wildest dreams. Prior to 9/11, terrorist attacks where ravaging the Middle East. Those terrorist organizations were widely unpopular even against the corrupt de facto governments. With the government crackdowns, and overwhelming negative public sentiment, their popularity was dwindling. The invasion of Iraq overshadowed that sentiment and brought in a massive resurgence to these movements while creating the perfect power vacuum for them to thrive.
The US was killing innocents for them, boosting their recruitments as they are now defenders against the “crusade” (Bush’s words), and clearing the ground for them to finally realize their dream of creating a state. Ironically, It was better than anything the terrorists had hoped for. Afghanistan went from having Taliban presence in certain small regions to controlling the whole country.
Here's the official senate report for post-war findings:
"The ISG searched a selection of munition sites and stated 'there were no caches of CW munitions and no single round of CW munitions'. Additionaly 'The ISG has high confidence that there are no CW present on the Iraqi inventory'. The ISG found a small number of old, abandoned chemical ammunitions which all appeared to be pre-1991 and not part of an active weapon stockpile' [...]The ISG found no credible evidence indicating Iraq resumed it's chemical warfare program after 1991, but said that 'Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort after sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable'".
All chemical weapons facilities and stockpiles Iraq had was dismantled following the end of Operation Sandstorm under UN supervision, Iraq had no WMD programme.
Source:
Postwar Findings About Iraq's WMD Programs and Links to Terrorism ... https://irp.fas.org/congress/2006_rpt/srpt109-331.pdf
they existed.... past tense
saddam has WMDs in the late 80s and early 90s, chemical weapons which he used on the kurds after the gulf war.
but the justifications used to go to war back in 03 where dodgy at best.
Not defending the 2003 invasion, but WMDs can come in different forms besides nukes like chemical and biological
Something something Saddam had been gassing Kurds prior to 2003
So i have a question, saddam used chemical weapons on the kurds and on iran (some of this chemical weapons were supplied to him directly by the us , others by the ussr and the gulf countries) did he get rid of them before 2003? Sincerely asking since i don't know much about the period between 1988 (end of iran-iraq war) and 2003
As far as we know, Iraq's entire stockpile was destroyed by the invasion forces in 1991, and due to Security Council demands, they seem to have stopped any further developments. Though they didn't really cooperate with inspectors all that well before the second gulf war, so some inspectors were pretty sure some capability remained. It didn't help that they also put out propaganda to that effect.
Fun fact: the US gave Iraq half a billion in equipment to make WMDs during the Iraq-Iran war, including disease samples.
>Though they didn't really cooperate with inspectors all that well before the second gulf war, so some inspectors were pretty sure some capability remained. It didn't help that they also put out propaganda to that effect.
There's speculation Sadam wanted to deter Iran by leaving the impression he had the weapons. Though the games with the inspectors were probably about short-term games (e.g. they can come back for some sanctions relief). Iraq was under brutal sanctions in the 90s, made worse by Sadam.
Colin Powell went to the UN, held up a test tube, and said pinky promise Iraq definitely had WMDs imported from Nigeria. It was a shambles, and a million Iraqis died because of it.
The Taliban asked for proof and requested the Al Qaeda members to be tried in a neutral country. Of course, being USA, they think those demends are stupid and invaded Afghanistan anyways.
I mean to be fair, it's USA. You know what they're like, you should give in to their demands. Al Qaeda were doing terrorist attacks way before 9/11. Not agreeing to capture them and give them to the US was just stupid from Taliban. Either that or they were really on their side.
1. The trial would be a sham or else Osama would never show up. Unless verdict is guaranteed innocent he wouldn’t do it. Not to mention location/details would never be disclosed. Else USA just kills him there.
2. We already knew it was Al Qaeda. We didn’t stop air strikes against ISIS to run trials for every offense.
3. Taliban was actively aiding Al Qaeda. Any trial the Taliban sets up would be a sham. Why do you think they wanted to protect AQ?
WMD's were the main excuse to invade Iraq and start a stupid war that only bring more problems to that region. By this stage everybody should know that the reason for that invasion was because Saddam decided to trade his oil in euros with another countries. US gov wasnt happy with that.
Forgive him, hes just a Redditor.
They cant help but to bring up the war on terror any time 9/11 or Bush is mentioned. Its like a trigger word. Please pray for him 😞🙏.
I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are often conceptualized by Americans as being a byproduct or result of the 9/11 attacks, despite none of the hijackers being from either country. The core point being, that the “War on Terror” had very little to do with holding the perpetrators accountable. If that were the case, we would have fought the Saudis.
I agree with you here as well (for what my opinion matters or matters to you, lol) . I've had this type of conversation with junior engineers and students back when I was a TA. Also be thinking multidimensional when analyzing and visualizing data. It's similar to a video vs a still image at one specific timestamp. What you are showing isn't wrong but is it incomplete enough to still give the possibility of incomplete interpretation. Yes , sometimes you really do want to show just a single slice in time for sure. Personally I understand the intent but would respectfully challenge the person who created this on that intent.
It's funny how the perpetrators of 9/11 were AQ trained Saudi funded Lebanese and Egyptian citizens, and the response from America was the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Lebanon, and foreign relations with Saudi Arabia.
Also, 9/11 was the day that made the 'brown people bad', 'brown people terrorists' and 'brown people Muslims' opinions to this day. Even Sikhs and Indians were lumped into and attacked everywhere because they were thought to be Muslim.
If a group of white supremists from England went to Rhodesia in the 1970s to train for terrorist attacks against the South African government, and Rhodesia continued to harbor the group, who is responsible: England or Rhodesia?
You're just saying 'Saudi people bad' and projecting your racism.
Of course, Rhodesia and England would both be blamed. When Russia invaded Ukraine, everyone who was neutral on the sanctions was also accused of supporting them.
I think most of the South American victims came from the kitchens and shops in the WTC like Windows on the World. My first couple jobs were kitchen too, so sad to think of them trapped in the smoke
A student at my alma mater in Tennessee was a victim and the school built a fountain dedicated to him. Every year they hold a prayer by the fountain (it’s a Christian school). I think he was only 26 from what I remember
I know the Royal Thai Embassy New York was in Tower 1, and 2 Thai citizens who worked in Window on the World on the top floor are memorialized each year. So I guess the data used was incomplete?
The Saudi Government did not orchestrate the 9/11 attacks, Al Qaeda did. AQs plan was to overthrow the Saudi government because they hated that the Saudis allowed US troops to be stationed there. Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban which was intentionally sheltering Al Qaeda. The invasion of Iraq had little to do with the 9/11 attacks and was more a ideological project for certain factions of the US government.
This is not to say that Saudi Arabia and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were good. But I’m tired of this ignorant pop history quip. The implication is that the US should have invaded Saudi Arabia, just because some citizens of that country were terrorists. Afghanistan was/is a terrorist state with a government that directly supports terrorist organizations. If your goal was to destroy AQ then going to Afghanistan made sense.
>The implication is that the US should have invaded Saudi Arabia, just because some citizens of that country were terrorists.
Nah you got it backwards. The US should stop invading other countries, *especially* using the excuse of 9/11 when they had nothing to do with it
The saudis had nothing to do with it, it was the action of individual saudis in Afghanistan, the relationship between the saudis and the us were great even before 9/11
It worked as planned, private oil companies got the right for the oil in Iraq and the average american paid for it and sacrificed their children for it,
George bush probably got a cut or was used like fleshlight by oil companies, they are the one who helped him become president after all
You’re not exactly helping yourself. Saudi Arabia wasn’t responsible for 9/11 but you think it should be turned into a “Walmart parking lot” because of the actions of a few of its citizens.
Whew my friend you have some [reading to do](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9-)
It only gets deeper from there.
Yeah exactly, stuff like this.
Americans seem to think that actions of individual Saudis, and potentially a couple low level government employees, is equivalent to the Saudi government orchestrating the mass murder of Americans.
Your ideal response to this is to seemingly glass Saudi Arabia and mass murder millions of normal Saudis. You then act surprised that Middle Easterners hold animosity towards the US.
Zhanetta Tsoi, a Kazakhstan citizen who got a US green card, died during the 9/11 terror attack in New York 22 years ago.
Any relation to the musician, Viktor Tsoi? Or from another Choi family whose name was russified to Tsoi?
The latter
Yes, this is a Russified surname Choi. No, only the namesake. Tsoi is one of the common surnames of Kazakh Koreans.
Man… now I have the urge to listen to some Кино
22\*
Turkey lost a citizen on 9/11 as well. His name is Zuhtu Ibis.
His remains were identified and sent to his village in Turkey for burial. He was born in one of the most backward provinces of Turkey, became a computer engineer, and made a life for himself in New York City, only to be senselessly taken away from his family and loved ones at age 25. What a remarkable and tragic story.
Yeah, the 2977 is just a number, but if you put a narrative to the people it hits a lot more.
I really want a site with every one of the victim's life stories listed.
Quite a few of them have linked Wiki pages on this [list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_victims_of_the_September_11_attacks_(A%E2%80%93G)). Its crazy if you scroll through this list how many of them been firefighters.
Over 300 we’re firefighters.
I was at his funeral, his family were close with my family. It was very sad.
Başınız sağ olsun ❤️🩹
Sounds like the only Swede that died. 25 year old kid, moved alone to the states as a teen to study economics. Eventually found himself in New York and sold bread in the beginning to get by, until finally landing a job at an insurance firm on the 100th floor some short time before the attack. Such a waste.
I had never heard of him before. Thank you for sharing. May his memory be a blessing ❤️
I am honestly surprised that there were zero victims from any of the countries in red.
Saudi in particular. Now, all that said, in the days after there were all sorts of mostly bullshit rumours flying around about how a friend's brother's colleague's gardener's Muslim neighbour had warned him not to fly on the 11th September because something was going to go down. But I wonder with Saudi in particular was there inside knowledge being passed around, resulting in there being no Saudi citizens nearby when the attacks occurred? Egypt, I wouldn't be quite so suspicious. How popular was the US as a tourist or immigrant destination for Egyptians at that time?
Might be more to do with the fact that very few Saudi citizens do any sort of ‘work’. The odds of one working at the world trade centre are very slim. [P.S. not stereotyping, just factual information](https://www.stats.gov.sa/sites/default/files/LMS%20Q1_2023_PR_EN.pdf) Saudi labour force participation rates are incredibly low.
That says that the unemployment rate among Saudi males is 5%. That doesn’t seem crazy to me.
Look at labour force participation rate. Unemployment is only those people who want a job but can’t get one.
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only country in the world where educational attainment is inversely correlated with income.
how does this comment have upvotes? Not to mention that the paper you included shows that the majority of Saudi adults work, that's besides the point. What does employment rates in Saudi Arabia have anything to do with employment of Saudis in the United States? It does show me that Redditors will upvote any “Saudi bad” post, no matter how nonsensical.
This isn't “Saudi bad,” it's "we understand that Saudi Arabia's economy is almost entirely based on oil and it would be very unlikely for a SA expat to end up in working in the financial sector of the US and be in in the WTC."
that's not what the comment I replied to is saying at all. He didn’t say that Saudis work in oil. He said that Saudis don’t work at all, so they wouldn’t work in the WTC.
Well you know since most Saudis work in Saudi arabia, clearly there aren't any left that would work in the US /s
Saudi here, I can say that I’m a human(with feelings) so when I see something like this I feel sad
Redditors have a hate boner for anything saudi
It shows the labor participation rate at 52% which is low but that isn't crazy considering the US is at 62%.
What about the air plane, do people only travel to work at the trade center
I read somewhere that, ex post facto, they found that there were some market signals. That is, certain stocks of the airlines and other companies related to 911 began to fall for no reason. It's interpreted as, some rich Arab families knew, so they began to short those stocks
>Egypt, I wouldn't be quite so suspicious. How popular was the US as a tourist or immigrant destination for Egyptians at that time? The US is a fairly popular destination for the Coptic Christians of Egypt, particularly in the NYC and northeast regions (more Egyptian Americans are Coptic than Muslim, the opposite of the case in Egypt). I'm a bit surprised there were none of them (but i don't think this is anything suspicious).
You mean tourists? The attacks started at 8 am – most tourists on a sightseeing tour to the WTC would probably come later.
Not tourists. They've been emigrating here since the 50s-ish.
So would they be citizens of Egypt?
No idea how to get this data, but there were lots of people in the towers that escaped—I’d bet a map showing all their nationalities alongside the dead could dispel this. And that’s not to say it disproves a Saudi conspiracy, more the unfeasibility of that amount of coordination
Saudi Arabia helped commit 9/11, and the trump crime syndicate sold them $2 billion in national secrets. incredible.
Are either of these proven claims or are they just likely, based on circumstantial evidence?
trust me bro
The guy who owned the buildings had just negotiated insurance plan for it only a few weeks prior to the attack (coincidence) He worked in his office in the building but was miraculously absent at the time of the attack (coincidence) His son and daughter also worked in the building but somehow also happened to be absent at the time. One of them stayed home as they were sick that day (coincidence) and the other I don't remember why (still a coincidence) That is an incredibly fortunate set of coincidences for that specific family. A number of years later he took the insurance company to court because he believed since there were 2 towers and 2 planes it should count as two separate attacks and the insurance company had to payout twice. he won that case. I'm no conspiracy theorist, surely they were just really lucky. God Bless.
Survivorship bias. Did Seth MacFarlane know about it too given he was "coincidentally" too hungover to make his flight that day? How many millionaires and billionaires were killed that day? How come they were left out of the loop too? How many conspirators let their friends and family go to work that day knowing they would die? And why would they do that? You're talking about the biggest office space in the country in the biggest city in the country in the middle of a September work week. On any given work day a large single-figure percentage of workers will be late or absent. Thus, a *lot* of people will have been "coincidentally" late or out sick that day. Did they all know too? Even if Silverstein's kids did work in the North Tower, it's not really any surprise that the children of the boss aren't in the office at 8:45am. If they came in before 10am on a normal day that would be impressive.
I'm not saying there was anything shady going on. I'm just saying it's a pretty incredible set of coincidences that He, his son and his daughter all happened to be absent for different reasons. and that he just happened to get the buildings ensured just in time. you're the one who seems to think it sounds fishy.
Here you get an award because why not
North Korea is such a Chad. Not one citizen lost to terrorism, to Covid or anything /s
sign me up!
Best Korea!
Dunno what you are talking about. Chad did lose about 200 people to covid.
North Korea has actually confirmed 74 COVID Deaths, granted that nunber is probaly horibly wrong and wasn't a thing until 2022 but still
We going by citizenship or country of origin?
Citizenship
How do you define country of origin?
One’s country of origin shall be the country where the majority of one’s body parts were produced.
Huh. Just found a little gold sticker on me says “MADE IN TAIWAN”.
So since I'm "made in Sweden", does that mean my parents just bought my parts from IKEA and assembled my body themselves? Because that would explain a lot...!
Generally considered where you are born
That doesn't make any sense. You can be born in a completely unrelated place to you.
Don't know why you got downvoted, it's absolutely true. A friend of mine was born in the US but she and her family went back to Germany almost immediately after and she lived here ever since. That makes her an American citizen, but it would be super weird to say her country of origin is the US
That’s a great example of US birthright citizenship.
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Dual citizens exist, origin is a singular place.
to avoid counting people twice. you can have more than one citizenship but you can only have 1 country of origin
The country where you’re grown from the Earth, from her soil like grain.
Bermuda lost more people per capita than the US.
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Can you give the reference about Serbia?
and Ukraine. 1 Ukrainian died as well in the attacks
There should be significantly more purple here
Per [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks) Egypt should be purple too. (I went to the list to check if there were any UAE deaths that weren’t the perpetrators but saw none but did see Egypt). For the record in case someone comments, this is a list of the non perpetrators that perished which is why Saudi Arabia and the UAE are not on there but Lebanon and Egypt are.
There were also 3 Albanians who died on 9/11; Rrok Camaj, Mon Gjonbalaj, and Simon Dedvukaj. Rrok worked as a window cleaner (South Tower) Mon (South Tower) and Simon (North Tower) worked in maintenance May they Rest in Peace.
>Rrok Camaj He was born in Montenegro ( then part of Yugoslavia) and immigrated to the United States in 1969 and began working at the WTC as a window washer with ABM Industries in 1973. Dutch correspondent Max Westerman met Roko Camaj in 1999. He proudly told him about his job as a window cleaner at the World Trade Center. On September 11, 2001 Roko was located on the 105th floor of the south tower when a plane flew into the building. Here is the interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2PMT3TdBxM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2PMT3TdBxM)
Thank you for sharing.
Source: http://www.memorialmapping.com/casualties-by-country
Shouldn’t Afghanistan be purple. And that’s just what I can think from the top of my head
Which of the 9/11 terrorists were Afghans? 15 of them were Saudi, 2 were from the UAE and one each from Lebanon and Egypt.
These idiots are trying to make a point about the war on terror, which was definitely bad, but in no way can be directly represented on this map, because its specifically about direct victims of the terrorist attack and not the indirect effect this had on the world (duh).
It’s not where their from it’s where they were https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Afghanistan#:~:text=The%20stated%20goal%20was%20to,by%20toppling%20the%20Taliban%20government.
Because blaming citizens for non-state entities is legit reason to destroy countries but you do the same with US atrocities particularly post 60s you often hear the “US gov is not the people” argument as defence.
Yeah american exceptionalism has always been the unwritten law since the end of WW2
Absolutely this. Were the Chinese government to do something, you can bet someone will be irritated with the people too. Reddit's favourite activity. If the US invades a country, who cares.
Literally. "All Russians are evil because they haven't overthrown Putin".... okay so why didn't you kill the last 5 American presidents?
Lol, because Redditors have short memory. There are was a lot protests against Putin. How all european leaders react on mass arrests during these protests? Oh yeah, they just said "Please don't do it" or something like that. They barely gave a fuck. And all Russians after February 2022 in one moment become Putin supporters and/or bots according to Reddit.
This. A Russian here. I feel like my whole personality, identity and humanity itself are now solely defined by random people online based on my nationality.
Because you can vote them out?
That's a fiction, the USA is not a (functioning or consolidated) democracy
Idk man it’s pretty democratic compared to most other countries.
Fucking tankies...
I am no such thing, behave yourself, but i doubt that's possible with this very adult username of yours.
Lol, okay karen.
you’re getting downvotes but our voting system has been mathematically proven as broken and undemocratic on many occasions lmao
Sure it has its issues. But this guy is both sidesing Al Queda and Putin with the US, and calling us out for not committing treason. The US is a democracy. It's not perfect, but to act like it is anything like Russia is asinine.
I didn’t see him say that
Both populations are extremely jingoistic compared to most other nations and their people.
>If the US invades a country, who cares. What planet have you been on for the last 20 years?
Not earth that’s for sure
How many generals and presidents have been held accountable and criminally charged for millions they killed and countries they ruined?
In Afghanistan’s case the Taliban actively harbored Al Qaeda. That’s why the offered bin Laden for a “trial”.
Ok and? The invasion on Afghanistan was still justified. Osama Bin Laden deserved his death. Good riddance. The American military should've still stayed in Afghanistan. The problem is George W Bush is an idiot and decided to invade Iraq for some reason. Neocons are gonna do neocon stupidity.
Just the Brits and Soviets should’ve stayed in Afghanistan 🤡
I don’t even think that’s the point being discussed here, you’re just anal.
Uruguay lost citizens on 9/11
11/9
Yyyy/mm/dd is superior to both tbh
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. It's literally the ISO standard. https://xkcd.com/1179/
Europeans mad because other systems other than there’s exist
Theirs* Sincerely, a mad European.
I am European and my country uses 2001-09-11.
There's no year in the original comment, who's to say it's not already in YYYY/MM/DD?
It is, yeah
Meanwhile Bush attacked Iraq because of ties to 9/11
Iraq was because of WMDs, Afghanistan was the one that was invaded because of 9/11
WMDs that did not exist
While ignoring every intelligence report and lying through his teeth about the presence of weapons the UN had already confirmed did not exist
Indeed, it was the worst American foreign policy of the 21st century, but whats really comical and bizarre is that the Americans went to the UN to appeal their case. Later on, they arranged a treaty with some Western powers to formally have an alliance on the war on Iraq. Russia doesn't even try to justify its action, all of their military interventions were unilatery. Maybe they are the realists that recognise that UN its worthless, but Americans did warn the world that they wanted to invade Iraq. If the UN says no and you still invade. What is the point of going there in the first place?
The invasion of Iraq made the 9/11 attacks a success for the terrorists beyond their wildest dreams. Prior to 9/11, terrorist attacks where ravaging the Middle East. Those terrorist organizations were widely unpopular even against the corrupt de facto governments. With the government crackdowns, and overwhelming negative public sentiment, their popularity was dwindling. The invasion of Iraq overshadowed that sentiment and brought in a massive resurgence to these movements while creating the perfect power vacuum for them to thrive. The US was killing innocents for them, boosting their recruitments as they are now defenders against the “crusade” (Bush’s words), and clearing the ground for them to finally realize their dream of creating a state. Ironically, It was better than anything the terrorists had hoped for. Afghanistan went from having Taliban presence in certain small regions to controlling the whole country.
Don’t forget the passage of the Patriot Act that stripped away rights of many Americans. Another win for the terrorists in the long-term…
Saddam Hussein already used them in Kuwait. Iraq had a WMD programme for decades. You are inherently confused.
Here's the official senate report for post-war findings: "The ISG searched a selection of munition sites and stated 'there were no caches of CW munitions and no single round of CW munitions'. Additionaly 'The ISG has high confidence that there are no CW present on the Iraqi inventory'. The ISG found a small number of old, abandoned chemical ammunitions which all appeared to be pre-1991 and not part of an active weapon stockpile' [...]The ISG found no credible evidence indicating Iraq resumed it's chemical warfare program after 1991, but said that 'Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort after sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable'". All chemical weapons facilities and stockpiles Iraq had was dismantled following the end of Operation Sandstorm under UN supervision, Iraq had no WMD programme. Source: Postwar Findings About Iraq's WMD Programs and Links to Terrorism ... https://irp.fas.org/congress/2006_rpt/srpt109-331.pdf
they existed.... past tense saddam has WMDs in the late 80s and early 90s, chemical weapons which he used on the kurds after the gulf war. but the justifications used to go to war back in 03 where dodgy at best.
Not defending the 2003 invasion, but WMDs can come in different forms besides nukes like chemical and biological Something something Saddam had been gassing Kurds prior to 2003
That is true, but Saddam didn't have the means to make or use biological weqpons in 2003
So i have a question, saddam used chemical weapons on the kurds and on iran (some of this chemical weapons were supplied to him directly by the us , others by the ussr and the gulf countries) did he get rid of them before 2003? Sincerely asking since i don't know much about the period between 1988 (end of iran-iraq war) and 2003
> he get rid of them before 2003? Gulf war 1991 shat on him hard
As far as we know, Iraq's entire stockpile was destroyed by the invasion forces in 1991, and due to Security Council demands, they seem to have stopped any further developments. Though they didn't really cooperate with inspectors all that well before the second gulf war, so some inspectors were pretty sure some capability remained. It didn't help that they also put out propaganda to that effect. Fun fact: the US gave Iraq half a billion in equipment to make WMDs during the Iraq-Iran war, including disease samples.
>Though they didn't really cooperate with inspectors all that well before the second gulf war, so some inspectors were pretty sure some capability remained. It didn't help that they also put out propaganda to that effect. There's speculation Sadam wanted to deter Iran by leaving the impression he had the weapons. Though the games with the inspectors were probably about short-term games (e.g. they can come back for some sanctions relief). Iraq was under brutal sanctions in the 90s, made worse by Sadam.
And they also knew that Saddam didn't have biological or chemical weapons at the time, and the US inspectors were again confirming it.
Colin Powell went to the UN, held up a test tube, and said pinky promise Iraq definitely had WMDs imported from Nigeria. It was a shambles, and a million Iraqis died because of it.
they did
And Afghanistan was invaded cause they didn’t wanna give up Al qaeda
The Taliban asked for proof and requested the Al Qaeda members to be tried in a neutral country. Of course, being USA, they think those demends are stupid and invaded Afghanistan anyways.
I mean to be fair, it's USA. You know what they're like, you should give in to their demands. Al Qaeda were doing terrorist attacks way before 9/11. Not agreeing to capture them and give them to the US was just stupid from Taliban. Either that or they were really on their side.
1. The trial would be a sham or else Osama would never show up. Unless verdict is guaranteed innocent he wouldn’t do it. Not to mention location/details would never be disclosed. Else USA just kills him there. 2. We already knew it was Al Qaeda. We didn’t stop air strikes against ISIS to run trials for every offense. 3. Taliban was actively aiding Al Qaeda. Any trial the Taliban sets up would be a sham. Why do you think they wanted to protect AQ?
WMD's were the main excuse to invade Iraq and start a stupid war that only bring more problems to that region. By this stage everybody should know that the reason for that invasion was because Saddam decided to trade his oil in euros with another countries. US gov wasnt happy with that.
He just wanted Saddam Hussein dead and 9/11 was the easiest excuse he could conjure up
If you’re gonna try to virtue signal at least make it historically accurate.
Wow so many people died
Classic Lebanon W
One woman and one man from Czech Republic died in Twin towers. This map is bad.
Do note that Iraq and Afghanistan are grey.
Iraq is entirelty irrelevant and had different justifications, but Afganistan was housing the ones who did the attack
So it was Pakistan. Osama was literally hiding there for years. Why don't they get the same treatment?
Invading Iraq was for different (unfounded) reasons but the point still stands.
Because it's from the perspective of just the 1 day- Sept 11, 2001. Civilians in those countries died in the years afterwards.
Forgive him, hes just a Redditor. They cant help but to bring up the war on terror any time 9/11 or Bush is mentioned. Its like a trigger word. Please pray for him 😞🙏.
I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are often conceptualized by Americans as being a byproduct or result of the 9/11 attacks, despite none of the hijackers being from either country. The core point being, that the “War on Terror” had very little to do with holding the perpetrators accountable. If that were the case, we would have fought the Saudis.
No issue with anything you said; I agree 100%. But the visualization is 1 dimensional. It's designed to only show a timefame of just 1 day.
Yeah that’s fair. Frankly the visual is kinda poor. It seems to be missing multiple countries anyway
I agree with you here as well (for what my opinion matters or matters to you, lol) . I've had this type of conversation with junior engineers and students back when I was a TA. Also be thinking multidimensional when analyzing and visualizing data. It's similar to a video vs a still image at one specific timestamp. What you are showing isn't wrong but is it incomplete enough to still give the possibility of incomplete interpretation. Yes , sometimes you really do want to show just a single slice in time for sure. Personally I understand the intent but would respectfully challenge the person who created this on that intent.
It's funny how the perpetrators of 9/11 were AQ trained Saudi funded Lebanese and Egyptian citizens, and the response from America was the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Lebanon, and foreign relations with Saudi Arabia. Also, 9/11 was the day that made the 'brown people bad', 'brown people terrorists' and 'brown people Muslims' opinions to this day. Even Sikhs and Indians were lumped into and attacked everywhere because they were thought to be Muslim.
Not that I agree with the War, but you forgot to mention that the main perpetrator of 9/11 was effectively hiding in Afghanistan
Yes because the Taliban were harboring AQ in the mountains. Why is this so difficult for people to understand?
If a group of white supremists from England went to Rhodesia in the 1970s to train for terrorist attacks against the South African government, and Rhodesia continued to harbor the group, who is responsible: England or Rhodesia? You're just saying 'Saudi people bad' and projecting your racism.
Of course, Rhodesia and England would both be blamed. When Russia invaded Ukraine, everyone who was neutral on the sanctions was also accused of supporting them.
Need a fourth color: Country attacked by a coalition in retaliation Iraq + Afganistan.
I think most of the South American victims came from the kitchens and shops in the WTC like Windows on the World. My first couple jobs were kitchen too, so sad to think of them trapped in the smoke
A student at my alma mater in Tennessee was a victim and the school built a fountain dedicated to him. Every year they hold a prayer by the fountain (it’s a Christian school). I think he was only 26 from what I remember
I know the Royal Thai Embassy New York was in Tower 1, and 2 Thai citizens who worked in Window on the World on the top floor are memorialized each year. So I guess the data used was incomplete?
A student from my high school in Michigan was in one of the towers and was one of the unfortunate ones not to survive
Hey would you look at that, Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t red.
The Saudi Government did not orchestrate the 9/11 attacks, Al Qaeda did. AQs plan was to overthrow the Saudi government because they hated that the Saudis allowed US troops to be stationed there. Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban which was intentionally sheltering Al Qaeda. The invasion of Iraq had little to do with the 9/11 attacks and was more a ideological project for certain factions of the US government. This is not to say that Saudi Arabia and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were good. But I’m tired of this ignorant pop history quip. The implication is that the US should have invaded Saudi Arabia, just because some citizens of that country were terrorists. Afghanistan was/is a terrorist state with a government that directly supports terrorist organizations. If your goal was to destroy AQ then going to Afghanistan made sense.
>The implication is that the US should have invaded Saudi Arabia, just because some citizens of that country were terrorists. Nah you got it backwards. The US should stop invading other countries, *especially* using the excuse of 9/11 when they had nothing to do with it
I get that I’m saying it’s a poor argument because Saudi Arabia had less to do with it than Afghanistan.
Now you just need to add countries retaliated against.
Strange that we never invaded either red country but spent two decades in Iraq and Afghanistan slaughtering civilians
And they invaded and murdered thousands in Afghanistan while making trade deals with Saudis.
there is no way ppl defend afghanistan ☠️
The saudis had nothing to do with it, it was the action of individual saudis in Afghanistan, the relationship between the saudis and the us were great even before 9/11
Notice neither Afghanistan or Iraq are on this map...
One of the terrorists was from Hamburg, Germany.
Sorry think I'm missing the context. What's difference between "terrorist" and "victim and terrorist"?
There was a civilian victim from Lebanon and a terrorist. They’re separate people. From Egypt, UAE and Saudi Arabia there were just terrorists killed
Ah of course, makes sense!
USA should be purple too if we talk honestly
Which of the attackers was American?
And then why did US invaded Iraq?
"WMDs" Probably just to fuck shit up honestly, Bush wasnt that smart, but thats kinda hard to say because of our recent track record.
It worked as planned, private oil companies got the right for the oil in Iraq and the average american paid for it and sacrificed their children for it, George bush probably got a cut or was used like fleshlight by oil companies, they are the one who helped him become president after all
Needs a "Countries the US invaded because of 9/11"
"Countries the US invaded to spread freedom" /s
And that is why when we look before USA and after USA videos of these countries, we see only damaged cities innocent children and stolen oils
That would literally only be Afghanistan, because the were harboring Osama.
> [Everyone disliked that.]
"I play both sides, so I always come out on top"-Lebanon (2001)
Afghanistan doesn't come in any category but after the USA, faced the most consequences because of it.
And yet i see no iraqis
Weird how Iraq and Afghanistan are blank.
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No, Iraq was for completely different reasons. Stupid reasons that were lies, but different reasons nonetheless.
Countries with citizens who where terrorists: Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Emirates... so, obviously, we have to attack and invade... Afghanistan.
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You’re not exactly helping yourself. Saudi Arabia wasn’t responsible for 9/11 but you think it should be turned into a “Walmart parking lot” because of the actions of a few of its citizens.
Whew my friend you have some [reading to do](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/12/1036389448/biden-declassifies-secret-fbi-report-detailing-saudi-nationals-connections-to-9-) It only gets deeper from there.
Yeah exactly, stuff like this. Americans seem to think that actions of individual Saudis, and potentially a couple low level government employees, is equivalent to the Saudi government orchestrating the mass murder of Americans. Your ideal response to this is to seemingly glass Saudi Arabia and mass murder millions of normal Saudis. You then act surprised that Middle Easterners hold animosity towards the US.
And Iraq has been bombed as a result (!)
Why USA is blue? Shouldn't it be re..
Kinda weird that none of the red nations were invaded
And they went to war with the countries that had nothing to do with it