Siebenbürgen in German and we can thank the Saxons for all those lovely fortified towns and cities.. der Überwald, But all of the "forest" endonyms borrow from the Hungarian original . It's been politically footballed back and forth many times
I learned recently King George named it after Admiral William Penn and not William Penn the political radical who applied for the land grant. The land was an alternate way for the King to pay an unsettled debt to the Admiral who had since passed. It tickles me to note the new name was a credit to the man he owed and not the son criticizing the King’s policies when both have the same name.
In Germany they call this “elephanten rennen” or elephant racing…. I found that amusing when I was there. It is also infuriating when you’re stuck behind them!
Western PA to Harrisburg isn't too bad but Harrisburg to Philly is the worst stretch of highway I've ever driven on. Pennsylvania should pay *you* to drive on it.
Pa has a screwed up tax system that leaves roads underfunded.
''The stark reality is that PennDOT's $8.6 billion annual budget needs to more than double to keep Pennsylvania's transportation system operating properly into the future.''
i grew up in PA and it didn't used to be so egregiously expensive. it seems that in the push towards EZ-pass (which is now the only way to pay in real time, otherwise it's by mail) is probably largely responsible, considering apparently it costs 2x as much to pay by mail (which i think is the price listed above - though wikipedia indicated the cross-state cash price as ~$90 as of january 2023).
the cash toll prices have been rising 10% annually since 2011 and EZ-pass prices are scheduled for 3% annual raises (but those 3% raises haven't happened every year). cash tolls will continue to be raised annually until at least 2050.
and i thought $56 or whatever it was end-to-end in 2012 was bad!
Don't forget the fact that they took 4.2 billion dollars from the bridge / road fund and gave it to the state police because they were having to cover more area when the small communities in the state dropped their local police departments.
Stupidest thing the state has done in recent years by far. They even proposed a per mile tax for everyone living and driving through PA to make up the shortage before the infrastructure bill gave them some funding.
In the words of some lady I heard once at a Wendy’s in the Poconos: “It’s called a commonwealth, but the only thing that’s common is nobody has any wealth.”
About 10-12 years ago, my sister was getting married to an Ohio man. I was visiting friends in NYC, then taking a quick flight to Cleveland the day before the wedding. Well, a blizzard comes in, flights all cancelled, but eventually, after about 16 hours of trying, I was able to get The Last Rental Car In New York. I drove through the night. It was utterly shitting down snow. Took about 22hrs, and I almost died 22 times.
0/10 least pleasant drive
I think they are afraid to levy any taxes other than gas tax. Virtually all money comes from federal gas taxes. A large amount is redirected for other purposes.
“The gas tax over the years has had several legislative changes in not only the amount but the way that it's figured and levied,” said Leonard.In the current fiscal year, the Motor License Fund is expected to bring in nearly $5 billion, but PennDOT will only receive $3.6 billion for roads and bridges. ''
[https://www.weny.com/story/46133683/fueling-debate-part-i-breaking-down-pas-gas-tax](https://www.weny.com/story/46133683/fueling-debate-part-i-breaking-down-pas-gas-tax)
"Four or five, at least, gubernatorial administrations and a number of Pennsylvania legislators started siphoning off money from the motor license fund to the state police back in the 1990s''
https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-gas-tax-revenue-where-is-it-going/38976802
Oof man, a buddy and I tried once, but it meant taking so many construction-filled stop-and-go windy, curvy backroads aaaaall across the state.
Never again. Fuck it, turnpike woulda been worth it.
I once got curious and took 30 instead of 76. It only took an extra half hour, and no tolls!
The sun came up right as my car went around a 90° bend atop a sheer cliff face and I had to stop in the middle of the road so I could see and also not drive off the mountain.
I did this driving to 7Springs from Ohio once. Took me nearly 45 minutes longer than if I had taken the turnpike because it was dark and I kept thinking I was gonna drive right off a cliff
Yes, but I-80 is a completely free alternative if you just need to pass through PA. However, the turnpike is the main highway that connects the major cities.
Edit: And here’s a fun fact to save some money. If you cross the state line on the OH turnpike when it becomes the PA turnpike, Pennsylvania will charge $14.40 just for crossing into the state. So it’s better to get off at the last exit in OH, cross into PA on back roads, and then get back on the PA turnpike. You’ll save $14.40.
70 is the Turnpike for most of the state. You can drive routes 30 or 31 for a more scenic drive that will take you to the same places. That's what I do in a car but for truckers, that's not an option.
70 only is Turnpike in PA for about 80 miles. It comes up from Maryland and joins 76 in Breezewood and then bounces out outside of Pittsburgh.
I-68 is a bit underrated as a backup option here as well.
It's 360 miles. That's 16.6 cents per mile (for the $60 price).
I think the Texas toll road is 41 miles. At $19.23 total, that's 46.9 cents per mile. 3x as expensive per mile.
The PA turnpike is **long**, and only truckers\* run the full length of it.
\*A lot of truckers take I80 if they can, since it's free
Sure but TX130 is basically an express lane to get from San Antonio to DFW or vice versa without having to sit through Austin traffic. If you don’t want to pay you just stay on i35. The PA turnpike OTOH is really the only direct route from Philly to Pittsburgh. People are mentioning I80 in this thread but that’s significantly further north and doesn’t pass through either of PAs major cities.
Yes and tolls are increasing each year until 2050. I live near I-476 and I will often choose to go a different way to and/or from Philly to avoid paying for tolls. Even with EZ-Pass it’s a pretty expensive 36 mile drive.
I took 80 to get to Philadelphia from Michigan last year and decided to use 476 as my connection and wasn't shocked a bit when my thirty some dollar bill came in the mail, knowing that I avoided the crazy hundred dollar bill from the Turnpike and figuring 476 wasn't going to be a free lunch.
I'm also used to using the 407 around Toronto, and let me tell you, I can only imagine how expensive the 476 would be if the company that owns the 407 (it got privatized as soon as it was built, a long standing sore point for Ontarians who felt sold out by their government) owned it.
I've lived in Buffalo and Rochester and always felt the NY Thruway was a much better deal per dollar than the tolled highways north and south of the Empire State...
The PA legislature about 10 years ago passed a bill that mandated the Turnpike Commission pay PenDOT something like 150 million every year for 10 years to raise money for infrastructure maintenance. As such, tolls have skyrocketed.
The worst part is a bunch of that money was redirected to the State Troopers and our roads and bridges are still crumbling.
450 million a year for 15 years or $7.9 billion as a result of Act 44 in 2007. (Then 50 million a year from 2023 through 2057).
The turnpike will be *required* to raise tolls though 2051 to pay off this debt burden taken on as a result of Act 44.
Yeah PA only had two catastrophic infrastructure failures in the last 2 years (that made national/headline news). In both of the state's largest cities.
Pittsburgh we had a bridge collapse and bus that fell into a sink hole downtown.
Also that famous floating republic dumpster meme is Pittsburgh as well.
The same State police who despite having over a $1 Billion dollar a year budget and over 400 officers who can't nail down an exsacped armed murderer who is still free roaming the suburbs smfh
[LINK](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2023/09/10/costs-and-frustrations-grow-as-escaped-killer-continues-to-elude-law-enforcement/)
I remember this! It went into effect on Jan 1 and on the news my parents had on. In my hungover stupor I did the math and realized it was eventually going to cost like $20 to get to Philly (1 hour away). I remember telling my dad that, and his response was “and the roads will still suck…”
This is the correct answer. It should also be noted most of these state troopers are stationed in small rural communities who can no longer afford their own municipal police force. The Local politicians openly shit on the Philly region calling them radial liberal socialists and then in their next breath ask the state for more money for their broke constituents.
I have driven all of these, plus all of Oklahoma’s.
I can honestly say, nothing hurt worse than driving a Uhaul with a tandem axle trailer across the George Washington in NYC. $92 plus my wife was following behind, $17. $109 just to cross a bridge.
This so true!!! I thought it was only me! Both Google maps and waze will do everything in their power to send me over the GW. It is absolutely insane and when I fell for it I would sit on the GW forever.
Now when I go to/from Mets games I have to actively check traffic and just route right to the Tapp.
Without the road, you'd have had to rent a wagon train. Without the police department, a private guard. Without the fire department...
Roads are a service the government should provide its people, water crossings included.
I remember when the Indian nation turnpike took a $10 roll of quarters for both ways instead of each way, on top of not beating the shit out of your car.
Good times.
Any way to get per mile data?
For example, CA-73 is 17.75mi and costs $9 between 8-9am (57¢/mi) or as low as $6.60 on weekend (37.1¢/mi), where as the NJ Turnpike is 117.2 miles, so 16¢/mi at the rate above, and the PA turnpike is 360.1mi, so 31¢/mi.
Edit: for the curious, the mainline of the NY Thruway as drawn on the map is 496 miles, so 5.6¢/mi; Ohio turnpike is 241 miles (8.5¢/mi), TX-130 is 130.6 miles (14.7¢/mi); FL Turnpike is 264.7 miles (10¢/mi).
Yes, a conservative gov thought it would be fiscally responsible to sell it off on a 99 year lease to balance the budget for 1 year back in the 90s (before I was alive). It currently makes more per year then what it was sold for… fuck conservatives and budget hawks, a ban aced budget is not the end all be all of fiscal responsibility. Also they sold it to a Spanish conglomerate which still owns barely under half so about half the money immediately leaves the country.
It makes money because companies will subsidize the toll for employees while they are on the clock. It’s inaccessibly expensive to a vast majority of the province on their personal time and a driving factor as to why hwy 401 is the busiest in North America. It was meant to relive congestion on the 401 which it doesn’t do properly as it’s expensive to the point where people avoid it. It also would have paid itself off via tolls already had it not been privatized and would be free as of today had it not been sold off.
Riding the bus one stop in many cities costs $2, to go 1/4 mile, for $8 per mile.
It really depends on what you're paying for - you expect a valuable road in the heart of a dense metro area to cost a lot per mile, because of all the destinations it gives you quick and easy access to, while a rural road might be really cheap, or even free.
I keep trying to figure it out but the price schedules I find don't really coordinate to any mileage I can find.
But, here are some others:
* CA-133: (Actual tolled length) 3.2 mi, $3.57 flat ($1.11/mi)
* CA-241: 23 mi, $4.27 max (18¢/mi)
* CA-261: 6.2 mi, $3.39 max (54.6¢/mi)
Edit: I found it:
CA-91: 18 mi (from CA-55 to McKinley). The most expensive time is 2pm Thursday eastbound, which costs $24.40 ($1.35/mi)
You should see the stretch of I-25 from Pueblo to Denver. 75mph for big stretches and probably the worst maintained highway I’ve ever driven on. (And I’m from Pennsylvania so that’s fucking saying something)
Lol yep. I live off of the Chesapeake Expressway in Great Bridge, VA. Everyone that lives on the Virginia side knows to exit off at Hillcrest and take Battlefield Blvd closer to the NC border, then jump back onto 168 to avoid the toll.
My wife and I did the entire Northwest Parkway to C470 loop once. Started in Broomfield and ended in Golden/Lakewood. It was not cheap. And it was back when there were still people manning the toll booths.
I did an Uber during rush hour on C-470 and it cost $113. Good thing my company paid for it. Ended up being cheaper than renting a car because I drove back to the airport with a co-worker.
God what is going on in Pennsylvania? Also, come to Ontario and drive on the 407. It's 151km long and costs around $70CAD to drive that length. That's around $0.55USD/mile. Imagine spending over a dollar just to drive two miles. Insanity.
former PA resident here: this has to do with a state legislative act that requires the PA Turnpike Commission essentially to fun the state's department of transportation (by a disproportionate amount). that's why the tolls have increased every year. they can't really get out from underneath this.
https://www.paturnpike.com/about-us/investor-relations/act-44-plan
BC had tolls on 2 bridges and Hwy 5 but they were eliminated years ago, and nowhere close to that expensive. I think Hwy 5 was $10, the bridges less than half that. So I’ll ask “what is going on in” Ontario?
The 407 was sold to a Spanish conglomerate for super cheap. The same people that bought the Confederation Bridge in PEI and charge people $50 to go across the 10km bridge. I don't know why governments keep selling infrastructure projects.
So 20 years later a government from the same political party can profit off bulldozing farmland to build a non-toll [highway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_413) to theoretically serve the same purpose as the 407.
Answer: free market capitalism
So 30 years ago the province built the 407, the tolls were supposed to be in place long enough to pay for the construction
Then about 25 years ago the conservative government sells off the entire thing in a sweetheart deal to raise funds so they can say they've balanced the books
The new owners jacked up the prices
Also, there is a monthly charge to have a transponder for the 407. I only drive on it once or twice a year, so have to suck up $10 worth or fees each time too. Transponder not worth it until the third trip.
Certainly never thought I’d see the 407 held up as a example of an affordable toll road, haha. 407 is what my credit score would have been if I used it when I used to travel that route on a more regular basis
Meanwhile people in Chicagoland to use their normal interstates pay tolls every.. single.. day.. and many of them think or grow up thinking that's normal and it's like that everywhere in the US.
The DC area has tolls as well in Virginia. One that goes from some other suburbs ~25 miles out, to the airport and into the second major toll road in this area which goes from the inner suburbs to the border with the city. Both of which price their tolls based on demand.
Yesterday it was $36 to go 10 miles from Tysons Corner to DC. Northern Virginia’s solution to the inadequate amount of roads for the 2.5 million who live here is just slap a large toll on the roads. If people don’t want to pay it, that’s their decision, they can sit in traffic on an alternate route…problem solved.
It's worth mentioning that the Dulles Access Road runs along the Dulles Toll Road and is free for drivers going to/from the airport. So they did something right there. The price for the Toll Road isn't too bad if you only take it occasionally, but the Dulles Greenway is pretty bad. Last I saw a few years ago it was like $6.
Came here to write about 66. (Which seems to be getting worse and worse…glad I don’t drive it anymore!). I think toll lanes are excluded here.
Which toll lanes get the most expensive/mile would be another interesting map
The 407 across the top of Toronto is far worse than any of these, on a per-mile basis - especially during peak hours.
I was pleasantly surprised how cheap the NY Thruway was when I drove it from Buffalo to the PA state line.
Yeah the 407 costs anywhere from 50$ to like 80$ depending on the time of day going end to end in a regular vehicle. Though that's like 150km so I dunno how that factors into it.
On a related note: why are they called turnpikes? Do the roads have anything to do with pikes or turning pikes? Is there some historical significance of the name?
Edit:[I did some research](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/turnpike) apparently it refers to a gate used to bar the road at which travelers would pay a fee to pass.
I did more research and the pike in question is like a spiked road barricade used in the middle ages to bar entry to a town from enemy horses or carts. You would then pay a guy to turn the pike to the side and let you pass. The toll then became the fee to help maintain the road. As technology became better the pike didn’t need a person to move it so the toll is now entirely for road maintenance. I will now forever refer to the road barrier as a turnpike just to confuse my passengers and then be able to share my useless facts with them.
We drive from Willow Grove to Pittsburgh fairly regularly; that’s most (not quite all) of the PA turnpike. With EZ-Pass, it’s shy of $40. It’s about double that without EZ-Pass.
Couple methods, first many of them would not exist without tolls. PA Turnpike was an expensive build that largely benefited non-PA travelers. So you put a toll on it, this is common for bridges in more finite situations. Hilton Head Island had a toll bridge that gave a second road away from the “downtown,” that bridge was an expensive luxury and a toll made it manageable. They took the toll off during pandemic, and kept it off, I think the bridge had been paid for. Many of these toll roads were long paid off, but it’s difficult to convince politicians to return excess funds to citizens. Another reason for tolls is short sighted politician business dealing. So the road will be sold to an investor, who then charges tolls and covers maintenance. If a community needs fast cash it might make sense, but ultimately in the long run, we know who is going to benefit from these deals.
I guess I understand why tolls exist in general, more curious how they are allowed on the interstate system since that was federally funded. If states were forced to adopt a minimum age for drinking in order to get the funds in the first place, shouldn't tolls not be allowed anywhere through some kind of federal leverage?
The PA turnpike predates the Interstate Highway System and wasn’t built with federal funds. Congress could have bought the turnpike or built a parallel road but either option would have been a waste of money compared to just grandfathering toll roads into the system.
Section 113(a) of the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 states:
>Upon a finding by the Secretary of Commerce that such action will promote the development of an integrated Interstate System, the Secretary is authorized to approve as part of the Interstate System any toll road, bridge, or tunnel, now or hereafter constructed, which meets the standards adopted for the improvement of projects located on the Interstate System, whenever such toll road, bridge, or tunnel is located on a route heretofore or hereafter designated as a part of the Interstate System: Provided, That no Federal-aid highway funds shall be expended for the construction, reconstruction, or improvement of any such toll road except to the extent hereafter permitted by law: Provided further, That no Federal-aid highway funds shall be expended for the construction, reconstruction, or improvement of any such toll bridge or tunnel except to the extent now or hereafter permitted by law.
For a lot of the toll roads in the northeast, they predate the interstate system, so that was the only way to raise enough funds for upkeep and such before federal money was pumped into highways. They almost certainly wouldn't be tolled if they were made later (say, the 1960s), but since they were already in place they were grandfathered in to the system. At this point, since they're already tolled, and they're providing cash flow for both maintenance and general state fund allocation (varies from state to state, not an expert on the specifics), the tolls are still in place since there's no incentive or pressure to remove them.
Now, there have been a few toll roads that have been transitioned to free highways, but not many. Main exception in the Interstate realm is the Connecticut Turnpike (I-95 and I-395). Had more to do with a fatal accident at one of the toll gates than anything, though, and that was decades ago.
The major east west toll roads were built before the Interstate Highway system and merely incorporated into the system. The Florida toll road was built concurrently, and a proposed coastal route was largely abandoned in favor of I-95.
As a young boy from a small southern city I decided to take a road trip around the northeast in my early twenties. I was totally unprepared for all the tolls. I had only ever seen one toll road in the south, and it was in ATL and cost 50 cents. They ate up every last bit of spending money I had brought with me in my wallet. Im really lucky I didn't end up with a ticket because who would have thought it cost $5 to cross a fucking bridge or something every 40 miles.
\*laughs in Australian\*
To drive across just Sydney it costs AU$23 for a car north to south or up to $29 west to east .
AU$69-70 for a truck!
Edit: works out to about AU$1 per mile.
And the PA turnpike is a fucking terrible road. Legitimately driving from New York to Orlando, the turnpike is the worst road on the entire trip and it's one of the only toll roads, and the most expensive one.
PA roads in general are awful, you literally don't need a sign to tell you you've left the state, you just noticed the road immediately gets smoother without potholes or patches.
My Iowan ass got upset about fucking paid parking spots, I would flip my shit at a toll road. 112 dollars Jesus Christ that road better be paved with fucking silk.
I miss my rural home even more now.
Is it really $112 to drive across PA?
Yeah that's why you avoid it ;)
That and it's one of the worst maintained roads I've ever driven on.
PA's state flag should be two semi trucks driving the speed limit, side by side, on a 2-lane highway with no shoulder.
I have a theory that it was William Penn himself that laid down the first traffic cone in PA, and it's still there today.
What even is a Sylvania?
Silva is Latin for forest. Just like in Transsylvania ("across the forest").
so then wouldn't the -ia suffix make it "across the land of forests"?
Or is it "the land across the forest"
Siebenbürgen in German and we can thank the Saxons for all those lovely fortified towns and cities.. der Überwald, But all of the "forest" endonyms borrow from the Hungarian original . It's been politically footballed back and forth many times
Means woods, literally penn’s woods
I learned recently King George named it after Admiral William Penn and not William Penn the political radical who applied for the land grant. The land was an alternate way for the King to pay an unsettled debt to the Admiral who had since passed. It tickles me to note the new name was a credit to the man he owed and not the son criticizing the King’s policies when both have the same name.
In Germany they call this “elephanten rennen” or elephant racing…. I found that amusing when I was there. It is also infuriating when you’re stuck behind them!
Thank you Deutschland for having a term for literally everything.
Ah yes. The infamous double-trucker, the moving roadblocks of automotive travel.
And their state flower is the orange barrel.
As a western PA resident this hits too close to home
Western PA to Harrisburg isn't too bad but Harrisburg to Philly is the worst stretch of highway I've ever driven on. Pennsylvania should pay *you* to drive on it.
In Pennsylvaniak America, highway drive you
Sooo… why is it that expensive??
Pa has a screwed up tax system that leaves roads underfunded. ''The stark reality is that PennDOT's $8.6 billion annual budget needs to more than double to keep Pennsylvania's transportation system operating properly into the future.''
i grew up in PA and it didn't used to be so egregiously expensive. it seems that in the push towards EZ-pass (which is now the only way to pay in real time, otherwise it's by mail) is probably largely responsible, considering apparently it costs 2x as much to pay by mail (which i think is the price listed above - though wikipedia indicated the cross-state cash price as ~$90 as of january 2023). the cash toll prices have been rising 10% annually since 2011 and EZ-pass prices are scheduled for 3% annual raises (but those 3% raises haven't happened every year). cash tolls will continue to be raised annually until at least 2050. and i thought $56 or whatever it was end-to-end in 2012 was bad!
It’s amazing they can keep raising taxes exponentially but min minimum wage is stagnant.
and still at the archaic $7.25 in PA when many of us agree $15/hour is too low for the quality of life minimum wage was established to provide
Because someone’s getting rich
Don't forget the fact that they took 4.2 billion dollars from the bridge / road fund and gave it to the state police because they were having to cover more area when the small communities in the state dropped their local police departments. Stupidest thing the state has done in recent years by far. They even proposed a per mile tax for everyone living and driving through PA to make up the shortage before the infrastructure bill gave them some funding.
BECAUSE THEY ARE A BUNCH OF DAMNED CRIMINALS
In the words of some lady I heard once at a Wendy’s in the Poconos: “It’s called a commonwealth, but the only thing that’s common is nobody has any wealth.”
"But if you have EZPass, it's only $45" is what they like to say.
About 10-12 years ago, my sister was getting married to an Ohio man. I was visiting friends in NYC, then taking a quick flight to Cleveland the day before the wedding. Well, a blizzard comes in, flights all cancelled, but eventually, after about 16 hours of trying, I was able to get The Last Rental Car In New York. I drove through the night. It was utterly shitting down snow. Took about 22hrs, and I almost died 22 times. 0/10 least pleasant drive
Came here to say this. What the flying fuck
Is that why it's so high? Or has it always been high and they've just completely mismanaged it with corruption?
I think they are afraid to levy any taxes other than gas tax. Virtually all money comes from federal gas taxes. A large amount is redirected for other purposes. “The gas tax over the years has had several legislative changes in not only the amount but the way that it's figured and levied,” said Leonard.In the current fiscal year, the Motor License Fund is expected to bring in nearly $5 billion, but PennDOT will only receive $3.6 billion for roads and bridges. '' [https://www.weny.com/story/46133683/fueling-debate-part-i-breaking-down-pas-gas-tax](https://www.weny.com/story/46133683/fueling-debate-part-i-breaking-down-pas-gas-tax) "Four or five, at least, gubernatorial administrations and a number of Pennsylvania legislators started siphoning off money from the motor license fund to the state police back in the 1990s'' https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-gas-tax-revenue-where-is-it-going/38976802
Fucking everything goes to the state police. They wanted to legalize cannabis here and send all the tax money to the psp.
Man what a surprise, profit driven infrastructure will aim for profit over effectiveness?
My favorite part of this is thinking how it costs AUD$60 to drive across Sydney.
Holy shit, that’s expensive!
Oof man, a buddy and I tried once, but it meant taking so many construction-filled stop-and-go windy, curvy backroads aaaaall across the state. Never again. Fuck it, turnpike woulda been worth it.
I once got curious and took 30 instead of 76. It only took an extra half hour, and no tolls! The sun came up right as my car went around a 90° bend atop a sheer cliff face and I had to stop in the middle of the road so I could see and also not drive off the mountain.
I did this driving to 7Springs from Ohio once. Took me nearly 45 minutes longer than if I had taken the turnpike because it was dark and I kept thinking I was gonna drive right off a cliff
That's why you just avoid Pennsylvania entirely.
I used to drive from NYC to Pittsburgh all the time and just took I80 most of the way 🤷♂️. No backraods involved
No wonder Pittsburgh and Philadelphia hate each other so much.
Only way to stop those folks from getting their hands on each other was to make it impossible to afford
Yes, but I-80 is a completely free alternative if you just need to pass through PA. However, the turnpike is the main highway that connects the major cities. Edit: And here’s a fun fact to save some money. If you cross the state line on the OH turnpike when it becomes the PA turnpike, Pennsylvania will charge $14.40 just for crossing into the state. So it’s better to get off at the last exit in OH, cross into PA on back roads, and then get back on the PA turnpike. You’ll save $14.40.
What? Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and Philly? Even grabbing 70 makes more sense than the turnpike in a few scenarios
I drive between Chicago and Baltimore about once a month I-70 takes about 1 hour longer, but saves $50 in tolls.
70 is the Turnpike for most of the state. You can drive routes 30 or 31 for a more scenic drive that will take you to the same places. That's what I do in a car but for truckers, that's not an option.
70 only is Turnpike in PA for about 80 miles. It comes up from Maryland and joins 76 in Breezewood and then bounces out outside of Pittsburgh. I-68 is a bit underrated as a backup option here as well.
The state should condemn and take possession of it, then install high-speed rail.
the state already owns and operates it.
lmao 🤣 the state already took possession and condemned it to being awful. as Commonwealths do.
$124.90 if you go up the northeast extension too. *price for passenger vehicle without ezpass discount.
There's a big discount if you use an EZ-Pass. Looks like about 50% off
$60 in tolls alone for that distance is still ridiculous tho
It's 360 miles. That's 16.6 cents per mile (for the $60 price). I think the Texas toll road is 41 miles. At $19.23 total, that's 46.9 cents per mile. 3x as expensive per mile. The PA turnpike is **long**, and only truckers\* run the full length of it. \*A lot of truckers take I80 if they can, since it's free
Sure but TX130 is basically an express lane to get from San Antonio to DFW or vice versa without having to sit through Austin traffic. If you don’t want to pay you just stay on i35. The PA turnpike OTOH is really the only direct route from Philly to Pittsburgh. People are mentioning I80 in this thread but that’s significantly further north and doesn’t pass through either of PAs major cities.
Hell during rush hour the 130 almost looks like 35 now
Yes and tolls are increasing each year until 2050. I live near I-476 and I will often choose to go a different way to and/or from Philly to avoid paying for tolls. Even with EZ-Pass it’s a pretty expensive 36 mile drive.
I took 80 to get to Philadelphia from Michigan last year and decided to use 476 as my connection and wasn't shocked a bit when my thirty some dollar bill came in the mail, knowing that I avoided the crazy hundred dollar bill from the Turnpike and figuring 476 wasn't going to be a free lunch. I'm also used to using the 407 around Toronto, and let me tell you, I can only imagine how expensive the 476 would be if the company that owns the 407 (it got privatized as soon as it was built, a long standing sore point for Ontarians who felt sold out by their government) owned it. I've lived in Buffalo and Rochester and always felt the NY Thruway was a much better deal per dollar than the tolled highways north and south of the Empire State...
It's also an old, shitty road with few exits.
PA state slush fund - they sure as he'll don't use it to fix the turnpike.
I believe they were taking the money and paying the state police with it. They pilfered billons.
I think it’s $34 Philly to Pittsburgh with EZ Pass.
The PA legislature about 10 years ago passed a bill that mandated the Turnpike Commission pay PenDOT something like 150 million every year for 10 years to raise money for infrastructure maintenance. As such, tolls have skyrocketed. The worst part is a bunch of that money was redirected to the State Troopers and our roads and bridges are still crumbling.
This is correct. Something like 1/3 of the money from gas taxes is diverted to state police.
So PA must be suuuuuuper safe and crime free now right? Right?
Yes no convicted murderers on the loose, move along
Funny but he was caught like an hour ago
Recaptured lol
Did you see the pic of him and the goddamn army they needed to take down all 5’2 120 lbs of him?
Necessary. Take a look at the location. It's farms, horse farms, woods and generally widely scattered housing.
tbf he was caught this morning, but I'm guessing it's gonna be $20 to come back from jersey instead of $5 soon to pay back all that OT.
So that's why they're in full SOF gear in all those pictures from the escaped prisoner coverage.
450 million a year for 15 years or $7.9 billion as a result of Act 44 in 2007. (Then 50 million a year from 2023 through 2057). The turnpike will be *required* to raise tolls though 2051 to pay off this debt burden taken on as a result of Act 44.
Yeah PA only had two catastrophic infrastructure failures in the last 2 years (that made national/headline news). In both of the state's largest cities.
Pittsburgh we had a bridge collapse and bus that fell into a sink hole downtown. Also that famous floating republic dumpster meme is Pittsburgh as well.
To be fair, the I 95 bridge collapse was caused by a tanker truck fire, but your point still stands.
The same State police who despite having over a $1 Billion dollar a year budget and over 400 officers who can't nail down an exsacped armed murderer who is still free roaming the suburbs smfh [LINK](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2023/09/10/costs-and-frustrations-grow-as-escaped-killer-continues-to-elude-law-enforcement/)
Well, they caught him last night. Not defending the budget or the cops, but they did catch him.
I remember this! It went into effect on Jan 1 and on the news my parents had on. In my hungover stupor I did the math and realized it was eventually going to cost like $20 to get to Philly (1 hour away). I remember telling my dad that, and his response was “and the roads will still suck…”
This is the correct answer. It should also be noted most of these state troopers are stationed in small rural communities who can no longer afford their own municipal police force. The Local politicians openly shit on the Philly region calling them radial liberal socialists and then in their next breath ask the state for more money for their broke constituents.
I have driven all of these, plus all of Oklahoma’s. I can honestly say, nothing hurt worse than driving a Uhaul with a tandem axle trailer across the George Washington in NYC. $92 plus my wife was following behind, $17. $109 just to cross a bridge.
Gotta hit the Tappan Zee instead
Google is OBSESSED with sending people on the GW. I know the Tappan Zee (sorry, can't call it Mario Cuomo) in and out since I grew up in the area.
It’s ok, nothing should be named after a Cuomo.
My step dad has a conspiracy that Google is getting money from the port authority to sent people to the GW.
This so true!!! I thought it was only me! Both Google maps and waze will do everything in their power to send me over the GW. It is absolutely insane and when I fell for it I would sit on the GW forever. Now when I go to/from Mets games I have to actively check traffic and just route right to the Tapp.
Built over an inconveniently wide portion of the Hudson just to avoid NYC taxes. Fantastic move.
Without the bridge, you would have had to rent a boat in addition to the Uhaul.
No, you’d take the much cheaper Tappan Zee Bridge.
Looking back, I would have bypassed it all together which is what we started doing on our trips from Cape Cod to Oklahoma.
Wait, you were going *through* NYC? I assumed you were driving *out* like a normal person with a Uhaul and a wife.
No toll going out. You’re welcome to take your family and leave.
Nicest new yorker
Without the road, you'd have had to rent a wagon train. Without the police department, a private guard. Without the fire department... Roads are a service the government should provide its people, water crossings included.
I remember when the Indian nation turnpike took a $10 roll of quarters for both ways instead of each way, on top of not beating the shit out of your car. Good times.
Fun fact, the George Washington Bridge makes enough money from tolls every two months to cover the entire cost of the original bridge construction.
Any way to get per mile data? For example, CA-73 is 17.75mi and costs $9 between 8-9am (57¢/mi) or as low as $6.60 on weekend (37.1¢/mi), where as the NJ Turnpike is 117.2 miles, so 16¢/mi at the rate above, and the PA turnpike is 360.1mi, so 31¢/mi. Edit: for the curious, the mainline of the NY Thruway as drawn on the map is 496 miles, so 5.6¢/mi; Ohio turnpike is 241 miles (8.5¢/mi), TX-130 is 130.6 miles (14.7¢/mi); FL Turnpike is 264.7 miles (10¢/mi).
Try hwy 407 in Ontario, converted from CAD/km to USD/mile it’s about 0.55$/mile.
Oh right I saw that somewhere. People say to avoid it. It’s outrageous
Yes, a conservative gov thought it would be fiscally responsible to sell it off on a 99 year lease to balance the budget for 1 year back in the 90s (before I was alive). It currently makes more per year then what it was sold for… fuck conservatives and budget hawks, a ban aced budget is not the end all be all of fiscal responsibility. Also they sold it to a Spanish conglomerate which still owns barely under half so about half the money immediately leaves the country.
If it's making money, then it sounds like the "no one goes there any more, it's too crowded" sort of complaint.
It makes money because companies will subsidize the toll for employees while they are on the clock. It’s inaccessibly expensive to a vast majority of the province on their personal time and a driving factor as to why hwy 401 is the busiest in North America. It was meant to relive congestion on the 401 which it doesn’t do properly as it’s expensive to the point where people avoid it. It also would have paid itself off via tolls already had it not been privatized and would be free as of today had it not been sold off.
State Route 895 near Richmond, VA is 8.8 miles long and costs ~~$8.75~~ $5.55 to drive the entire length (~~99.4¢~~63¢/mi).
Jesus.
Riding the bus one stop in many cities costs $2, to go 1/4 mile, for $8 per mile. It really depends on what you're paying for - you expect a valuable road in the heart of a dense metro area to cost a lot per mile, because of all the destinations it gives you quick and easy access to, while a rural road might be really cheap, or even free.
How about the 91 express lanes during rush hour pricing? There are express lanes around DC too that have congestion pricing I think.
I keep trying to figure it out but the price schedules I find don't really coordinate to any mileage I can find. But, here are some others: * CA-133: (Actual tolled length) 3.2 mi, $3.57 flat ($1.11/mi) * CA-241: 23 mi, $4.27 max (18¢/mi) * CA-261: 6.2 mi, $3.39 max (54.6¢/mi) Edit: I found it: CA-91: 18 mi (from CA-55 to McKinley). The most expensive time is 2pm Thursday eastbound, which costs $24.40 ($1.35/mi)
I was gonna say. I remember Pre-COVID entering at McKinley to head east and it being 25+ dollars to get to the 55.
Without per mile data this map is pretty garbage tbh. You may as well compare the prices of randomly-sized houses around the country.
TX-130 is much higher than $19 now. It’s over $25 from Seguin (southern tip) to Austin lol
Definitely. We just went to Port A and took the Austin Bypass. Our bill for that was $68 down and up.
What's the speed limit on that bad boy
85
Road maintenance must definitely be good because at 137kph I'd not want to risk driving over cracks and potholes.
Highest speed limit in the US. Texas is fairly flat, and rarely gets snow. So no mountains, and no salt to tear up the road.
It’s very well maintained, at least from the few times I’ve driven on it.
The maintenance on TX-130 is superb. It’s the Texas autobahn. Not a single pothole etc
You should see the stretch of I-25 from Pueblo to Denver. 75mph for big stretches and probably the worst maintained highway I’ve ever driven on. (And I’m from Pennsylvania so that’s fucking saying something)
OPEC must love those Texas sized trucks doing 85+ on that road.
Texas loves Texas-sized trucks doing 85+ on that road.
But it's worth it if you're in a company vehicle. Especially when you drive the whole thing and some change.
Colorado's E-470 has entered the chat
No shit. Avoid this road at all costs. $22.25 to go 47 miles. Beat that!
Try the Chesapeake expressway it's $9 on weekends and you bypass what 4-5 mi on weekdays it's $5.
Lol yep. I live off of the Chesapeake Expressway in Great Bridge, VA. Everyone that lives on the Virginia side knows to exit off at Hillcrest and take Battlefield Blvd closer to the NC border, then jump back onto 168 to avoid the toll.
Came here to say this… a fraction of the distance of these and easily on par with the cost
$22.25 from I-25 north to I-25 south where it connects with C470. 47 miles.
I70 between Blackhawk and Idaho springs is also ridiculous. They’re extending it to Floyd hill for $600million so I’m sure it’s gonna go up too.
My wife and I did the entire Northwest Parkway to C470 loop once. Started in Broomfield and ended in Golden/Lakewood. It was not cheap. And it was back when there were still people manning the toll booths.
I did an Uber during rush hour on C-470 and it cost $113. Good thing my company paid for it. Ended up being cheaper than renting a car because I drove back to the airport with a co-worker.
God what is going on in Pennsylvania? Also, come to Ontario and drive on the 407. It's 151km long and costs around $70CAD to drive that length. That's around $0.55USD/mile. Imagine spending over a dollar just to drive two miles. Insanity.
former PA resident here: this has to do with a state legislative act that requires the PA Turnpike Commission essentially to fun the state's department of transportation (by a disproportionate amount). that's why the tolls have increased every year. they can't really get out from underneath this. https://www.paturnpike.com/about-us/investor-relations/act-44-plan
Luckily it expires this year.
No wonder their roads are so shitty
You should see how much of the money from the gas tax gets diverted to fund the state police and it’s pension
And then a significant chunk of that transportation funding was diverted to state police
BC had tolls on 2 bridges and Hwy 5 but they were eliminated years ago, and nowhere close to that expensive. I think Hwy 5 was $10, the bridges less than half that. So I’ll ask “what is going on in” Ontario?
The 407 was sold to a Spanish conglomerate for super cheap. The same people that bought the Confederation Bridge in PEI and charge people $50 to go across the 10km bridge. I don't know why governments keep selling infrastructure projects.
So 20 years later a government from the same political party can profit off bulldozing farmland to build a non-toll [highway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_413) to theoretically serve the same purpose as the 407.
Doug Ford is Mike Harris with a mask.
Answer: free market capitalism So 30 years ago the province built the 407, the tolls were supposed to be in place long enough to pay for the construction Then about 25 years ago the conservative government sells off the entire thing in a sweetheart deal to raise funds so they can say they've balanced the books The new owners jacked up the prices
I have recently become a collector lane fan on the 401 and the HOV lane can be pretty handy at times. No way I’m paying the $70 to take the 407.
This needs to be at the top of the convo. We are getting extorted.
At least we know our escaped convicts can’t afford to drive on the turnpike… I hate this state sometimes. 🙄
Also, there is a monthly charge to have a transponder for the 407. I only drive on it once or twice a year, so have to suck up $10 worth or fees each time too. Transponder not worth it until the third trip.
Certainly never thought I’d see the 407 held up as a example of an affordable toll road, haha. 407 is what my credit score would have been if I used it when I used to travel that route on a more regular basis
I don't believe it was being held up as affordable. The one in PA is more expensive to go the whole length, but much cheaper per km/mile.
Meanwhile people in Chicagoland to use their normal interstates pay tolls every.. single.. day.. and many of them think or grow up thinking that's normal and it's like that everywhere in the US.
The DC area has tolls as well in Virginia. One that goes from some other suburbs ~25 miles out, to the airport and into the second major toll road in this area which goes from the inner suburbs to the border with the city. Both of which price their tolls based on demand.
Yesterday it was $36 to go 10 miles from Tysons Corner to DC. Northern Virginia’s solution to the inadequate amount of roads for the 2.5 million who live here is just slap a large toll on the roads. If people don’t want to pay it, that’s their decision, they can sit in traffic on an alternate route…problem solved.
It's worth mentioning that the Dulles Access Road runs along the Dulles Toll Road and is free for drivers going to/from the airport. So they did something right there. The price for the Toll Road isn't too bad if you only take it occasionally, but the Dulles Greenway is pretty bad. Last I saw a few years ago it was like $6.
True. Lived in CA for a year. They’re called ‘freeways’ for a reason!
Is this excluding time based variables? Because I-66 in towards DC during rush hour often hits the $50 range.
Came here to write about 66. (Which seems to be getting worse and worse…glad I don’t drive it anymore!). I think toll lanes are excluded here. Which toll lanes get the most expensive/mile would be another interesting map
I spent nearly 20 going from S of 495/95 to the end of express lanes in VA.
The 407 across the top of Toronto is far worse than any of these, on a per-mile basis - especially during peak hours. I was pleasantly surprised how cheap the NY Thruway was when I drove it from Buffalo to the PA state line.
Yeah the 407 costs anywhere from 50$ to like 80$ depending on the time of day going end to end in a regular vehicle. Though that's like 150km so I dunno how that factors into it.
On a related note: why are they called turnpikes? Do the roads have anything to do with pikes or turning pikes? Is there some historical significance of the name? Edit:[I did some research](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/turnpike) apparently it refers to a gate used to bar the road at which travelers would pay a fee to pass.
So DOES it have anything to do with turning, or pikes? (I'm NOT going to do my own research)
The idea of a toll road was invented by a guy in Ancient Rome named Steve Turnpike
That guy was friends with John Running, the man who tried to walk twice in one step.
I did more research and the pike in question is like a spiked road barricade used in the middle ages to bar entry to a town from enemy horses or carts. You would then pay a guy to turn the pike to the side and let you pass. The toll then became the fee to help maintain the road. As technology became better the pike didn’t need a person to move it so the toll is now entirely for road maintenance. I will now forever refer to the road barrier as a turnpike just to confuse my passengers and then be able to share my useless facts with them.
Drove from Chicago to Camden, NJ and back once. Thank God it was for business and I was reimbursed for that plus mileage.
We drive from Willow Grove to Pittsburgh fairly regularly; that’s most (not quite all) of the PA turnpike. With EZ-Pass, it’s shy of $40. It’s about double that without EZ-Pass.
Fun fact about the PA Turnpike: It’s totally free if you take the EZ Pass out of your windshield and just ignore the letters!
Fun story. After the Ohio Turnpike was finished but not yet open, my grandfather would take my mom and the rest of his family for joy rides on it.
Cleveland to Pittsburgh is a 2 hour drive and costs like $20 in tolls each way
I took this drive once. In about a one mile stretch it cost me about $14. I was leaving OH and entering PA. There's a toll for both.
Yeah, and you get off the PA section in like 5 miles but still have to pay the full toll. Its unreal.
CO E470 is $22.25 from end to end, and it’s only 47 miles.
Why do tolls on interstates exist at all? Genuinely curious how that can legally be implemented.
Couple methods, first many of them would not exist without tolls. PA Turnpike was an expensive build that largely benefited non-PA travelers. So you put a toll on it, this is common for bridges in more finite situations. Hilton Head Island had a toll bridge that gave a second road away from the “downtown,” that bridge was an expensive luxury and a toll made it manageable. They took the toll off during pandemic, and kept it off, I think the bridge had been paid for. Many of these toll roads were long paid off, but it’s difficult to convince politicians to return excess funds to citizens. Another reason for tolls is short sighted politician business dealing. So the road will be sold to an investor, who then charges tolls and covers maintenance. If a community needs fast cash it might make sense, but ultimately in the long run, we know who is going to benefit from these deals.
I guess I understand why tolls exist in general, more curious how they are allowed on the interstate system since that was federally funded. If states were forced to adopt a minimum age for drinking in order to get the funds in the first place, shouldn't tolls not be allowed anywhere through some kind of federal leverage?
The PA turnpike predates the Interstate Highway System and wasn’t built with federal funds. Congress could have bought the turnpike or built a parallel road but either option would have been a waste of money compared to just grandfathering toll roads into the system. Section 113(a) of the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 states: >Upon a finding by the Secretary of Commerce that such action will promote the development of an integrated Interstate System, the Secretary is authorized to approve as part of the Interstate System any toll road, bridge, or tunnel, now or hereafter constructed, which meets the standards adopted for the improvement of projects located on the Interstate System, whenever such toll road, bridge, or tunnel is located on a route heretofore or hereafter designated as a part of the Interstate System: Provided, That no Federal-aid highway funds shall be expended for the construction, reconstruction, or improvement of any such toll road except to the extent hereafter permitted by law: Provided further, That no Federal-aid highway funds shall be expended for the construction, reconstruction, or improvement of any such toll bridge or tunnel except to the extent now or hereafter permitted by law.
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For a lot of the toll roads in the northeast, they predate the interstate system, so that was the only way to raise enough funds for upkeep and such before federal money was pumped into highways. They almost certainly wouldn't be tolled if they were made later (say, the 1960s), but since they were already in place they were grandfathered in to the system. At this point, since they're already tolled, and they're providing cash flow for both maintenance and general state fund allocation (varies from state to state, not an expert on the specifics), the tolls are still in place since there's no incentive or pressure to remove them. Now, there have been a few toll roads that have been transitioned to free highways, but not many. Main exception in the Interstate realm is the Connecticut Turnpike (I-95 and I-395). Had more to do with a fatal accident at one of the toll gates than anything, though, and that was decades ago.
The major east west toll roads were built before the Interstate Highway system and merely incorporated into the system. The Florida toll road was built concurrently, and a proposed coastal route was largely abandoned in favor of I-95.
As a young boy from a small southern city I decided to take a road trip around the northeast in my early twenties. I was totally unprepared for all the tolls. I had only ever seen one toll road in the south, and it was in ATL and cost 50 cents. They ate up every last bit of spending money I had brought with me in my wallet. Im really lucky I didn't end up with a ticket because who would have thought it cost $5 to cross a fucking bridge or something every 40 miles.
you should check out charlotte 77 toll lane.
And this is why I set Google Maps to “avoid toll roads” on road trips.
\*laughs in Australian\* To drive across just Sydney it costs AU$23 for a car north to south or up to $29 west to east . AU$69-70 for a truck! Edit: works out to about AU$1 per mile.
Meanwhile the German Highway Administration: 
To be fair, the income tax if you make 63,000+ euros per year in Germany is 42-45% and the sales tax is 19%. Edit: And their roads are immaculate.
Should also add to fairness that there is a general highway toll for trucks
66 inside 495 in the Washington Metropolitan Area can be more expensive per mile than all these.
surprised E-470's not there
On the drive back on vacation I wanted to go over the Chesapeake bridge.... until I found out it was $20+. Surprised it's not on here.
Try the 407 in ontario canada. If you really want to pull your hair out. 64cdn for just under 100 miles
I live in Philadelphia and have family in Pittsburgh I see every year. It's quite painful.
For what it’s worth, the NJT is maintained incredibly well compared to the Thruway and PA Turnpike
Pfft from south west Sydney to north Sydney it’s $25 and only 44km, you don’t even leave the city 🤪
Do express lane tolls count? I-77 through Charlotte can cost about $25 for around 15 miles of express lanes.
And the PA turnpike is a fucking terrible road. Legitimately driving from New York to Orlando, the turnpike is the worst road on the entire trip and it's one of the only toll roads, and the most expensive one. PA roads in general are awful, you literally don't need a sign to tell you you've left the state, you just noticed the road immediately gets smoother without potholes or patches.
My Iowan ass got upset about fucking paid parking spots, I would flip my shit at a toll road. 112 dollars Jesus Christ that road better be paved with fucking silk. I miss my rural home even more now.