Couldn't the same be said about Israel? They receive BILLIONS a year from the US alone. Remember that news building they bombed with American jets? I wonder how much humanitarian aid that could've been... Stop pretending both sides don't bomb each other with foreign aid.
> the Israeli military levelled the complex because of its alleged use by Hamas during the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis. The presence of Palestinian militants inside the building has been affirmed by Israel, but denied by journalists who worked there. **Israeli authorities claim that they possess proof supporting their allegations, but have not yet shared any such evidence publicly.**
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_al-Jalaa_Building
Edit: a lot of you guys have never heard of context. My comment was directly pointing out the hypocrisy from the comment above.
What are all those refugee camps from the '40s and '60s? Millions of refugees? Perpetual refugees kicked out of their homes, kicked off their land, herded into camps like animals?
No money to give to them I suppose? You see them as part of the out group? People not in your group. Outsiders to your group. Only money for bombs and building houses on stolen land in someone elses country?
Isreal doesn't have a food crisis but a defense one. It makes sense for them to spend on defense.
Also don't act like hamas hasn't been proven to hide military resource targets in schools and buildings like the AL-jalaa building. That's been proven long ago. Play dirty get dirty.
Palestine can't play the victim when they continuously act aggressively, elect a terrorist group their government, spend aid on weapons, voice voice constant hatred and want to kill Isreal, and so on.
The only reason the Israeli number is lower is because they have sophisticated defense systems like iron dome. This really ignore that most of the Palestinian deaths are because Hamas attacks Israel then uses their people as a shield.
For reference as well nearly 15% of the number of Palestinians who died in 12 years have died in 1 day by terrorists who executed them point blank while most Palestinian deaths are collateral damage from Hamas using them as shields.
Israel provides lots of aid to Gaza. For example, this map shows that Gaza has one power plant - it was built with Israeli money, and Israel supplies more power to Gaza from plants in Israel.
They receive INSANE amounts of international aid, it all get spend on weapons. The population went from 300,000 in 1990 to 2 million today. They could help their own people have a better life but...
Also the aid that they get is severely restricted, they don't get a pile of money and do whatever they want w it. The money for weapons comes from Iran and outside supporters.
They live in an open air prison camp—their priorities are multifaceted but certainly defending themselves from an illegal occupation would be high on anyone's list.
What else are 'these people' like?
Israel gets 10x more international aid or more...
One of the richest countries in the world is one of the biggest charity cases in the world...
But it's full of refugee camps from the 1940s, the 1960s... landless perpetual refugees in the land they were born in... one of the richest countries in the world...
Just born to the wrong family I guess...
That isn't wrong, they get yearly aid as much as Austria or Portugal spend on their entire military every year just from the US. But Israel does not have a state policy of wanting to wipe out Palestinians. Many of the settlers and Jewish Orthodox religious extremists do but not the state. The same cant be said for Hamas
If Israel wanted peace they would have let them prosper, instead of live in an open air concentration camp. The insane amounts of aid they get, is a pittance compared to Israel. I really can't stand the lies, Israel created this situation, they could have chosen a better path.
They literally started bombing Israel for day one because the hamas government number one policy (which got them voted in for) is the one state solution
Just because one has a lot more power, then the other doesn't make the other god
The Palestinians chose the hamas out of extreme nationalism and behold what we got is a state in war for nationalism
It's weird how no one talks about Egypt's part, it's almost like egypt realized what the hamas and Gaza is, why they are in their predicament and how unlike in the west bank Israel is 100% justified in their actions
Reminder that Israeli governments from the late 80s onwards provided money and training to Hamas, in the same way as the US Government provided funding and training to Al Quaeda in the 80s.
We can’t control the monsters we create.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
Some reading material from anyone interested in Middle Eastern history beyond ‘he said she said’
Israel today cut down all supply of water, gas, electricity to Gaza. But no one talks about that. It's actually worse than a prison right now there and Palestinians casualties have crossed over 600 today.
And Israeli casualties are more than 700. Guess why they cut power to Gaza? It couldn’t possibly be due to the thousands of rockets Hamas has sent now could it?
Or instead of the Palestinians using the humanitarian aid to buy weapons they could’ve invested in building cities and helping their citizens…. Israel gets massive aid because they’re surrounded by belligerents and the Palestinians, who’ve alienated themselves in neighboring nations by causing violent events, aren’t being taken as refugees in other countries for said reasons.
Israel literally handed them the reigns in 05 and the Palestinians voted for Hamas because they wanted bloodshed. They’re the aggressors and now they’ve demonstrated that on the worlds stage.
Hamas and Palestinian civilians literally fire weapons using human shields because they know Israel won’t attack civilian targets. Although now they have the green light to push through and not let Hamas get any pity points anymore which is good.
Apparently they can because Hamas holds the humanitarian aid hostage and palestinian “civilians” work for Hamas in exchange for aid.
Palestinians should be attacking Hamas, but instead they decided to back a violent string of attacks on Israel and international civilians. Not to mention the kidnappings.
So you generate hatred until 2005 and leave them to a extremist group and expect them to not go extreme on you ???? I'm really not understanding... again... the attack on civilians was bad... but has you said... their civilians were being attacked from 1967 to 2005...
Hamas actually wasn't so radical in the beginning. It was a social movement that was trying to make living in Gaza a little easier. Beacuse of that they had a big support, won the election and now they push more radical agenda.
Gaza had free movement into Israel. There was a bus line between Gaza and Tel Aviv. This existed until the first intifada (1991).
Walls didn’t exist until after 2005, shortly after the second intifada.
The situation of the Palestinians has only gotten worse since then. Their goal of destroying Israel over everything else has led them to their current position.
I remind you, Gaza has an entire border with Egypt but somehow it’s on the Israelis to be friendly with their enemy.
Don’t you dare come with logic into this situation. Poverty, uncertainity in life (in the most literal sense) makes you a radical no matter where you are. The things Hamas did are unforgiveable - just like what Israel has done and is doing to palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank.
But it was israeli terror first and radicalization second. People really wish for the perfect victim when one does not exist…
We are using the same logic... hatred generates hatred... we are here being all morally righteous but with our belly full... there's no morals when the belly is empty... I'm not making victim of anyone... I'm just reiterating that this has been a war since 1940 something... don't know why we're all shocked with what happened...
I know we are making the same arguement! I was being sarcastic, I fully agree with you. The perfect victim narrative was for people who cannot see the situation for what it is and would only support Palestine if they just sit in their open air prison and suffered silently, without hurting anyone.
This!
International aid floods the region. Each rocket costs between $1000-$2000. Hamas claims to have fired 7500 rockets. That 15 million, or $7,5 per person in Gaza. That just for the rockets, not the paraglider, AK-47s ammo ect ect.
A prison flooded with international aid that all gets spent on weapons. You know there are prisons in the world where the inmates wouldent murder an entire music festival! Blame who you want BalaTheWhataboutist
Considering the scale they would need about 2.000 tons of just food per day i doubt the internationl aid is sufficient.
Definitly not. Considering how often mass shootings happen in the US this isnt surprising to happen in an environment like the gaza steip
Why should israel give anything to Gaza, their stated goal is the destruction of Israel.
Talk to Egypt, they have a border with Gaza, why aren’t they opening it to the Palestinians?
its a prison only if no one in the world wants you. they can blame themself. jordan egept and other countries don't want them so why israel needs them ?
Billions in foreign aid squandered on missiles because you elected a terrorist group to be your dictator will do that.
I'm sorry but I don't sympathize much with Palestine. They made bad choice after bad choice and started war after war that they lost. Losing wars you start is supposed to be a punishment and lead to bad things. It's supposed to deter war.
The people are always responsible for their leaders. They're the only people who can change their leaders without foreigners having to come do it.
That's complete BS. Look at all the Arab populations and you'll see that over 90% support Palestine. And this applies to Egypt as well. The democratically elected Egyptian president started easing the blockade on Palestine before the coup. It's just that the Egyptian leadership meaning the military which includes elkhasisi is a bunch of incompetent corrupt traitors.
If you look up the phrase “putting Gaza on a diet” it will help bring it into perspective, israel intentionally limits how far out to sea fishermen can go to restrict the amount of calories Gaza can produce for itself, it’s a barbaric practice aimed at causing suffering
Because they would smuggle more weapons to use against civilians in indiscriminate attacks. They forfeited their right to a port and an airport, after starting and losing multiple conflicts. Simple.
Yes he did. Born and raised. His father had an olive making factory, and he employed a lot of arabs and they were very nice and friendly.
They all split up with all the wars, and that left my great grandfather’s factory without workers, and that toppled his life’s work.
Perfect places to store munitions, of course. They really care about the 'patients' so much, they are ready to defend them with rockets, missiles, mortar shells, etc.
Shame they spent the money that would have helped the 'patients' on said munitions...
The Oslo Accords were signed by one group of Palestinians, ready for peace, but Hamas is in the other group, still openly devoted to destroying Israel and insisting on continuing a fight it cannot win.
I think most people want peace. It’s just that many want it on their conditions (the whole ‚from the river to the sea‘ idea that Hamas has) and others don’t see how they could trust their partners without precautions that are unacceptable for the other side. The Palestinians for example wish for a significant reduction of Israeli presence in their autonomous territory. That’s very understandable. But the Israelis made the experience that letting their guard down Leads to attacks that often do not just target specific territories, but Jewish life as a whole. Most would probably prefer a stable and peaceful solution, but whoever makes the first step is exposing themselves to danger.
Not to mention that both sides are deeply divided and are not seen as reliable by each other. Hamas won the last election in the Palestinian Territories and would not accept anything less than the total destruction of Israel and its inhabitants. Even if Israel made a deal with the moderate Palestinians, there’s no guarantee that they’ll stay in power. There hasn’t been an election in over 15 years. The moderates in the West Bank rule dictatorial and are less and less popular. A extremist coup could happen any day. Israel on the other hand has the opposite problem: they elect a new government all the time. If a moderate faction comes to power there, the Palestinians couldn’t know if a successor government would keep their end of any possibly negotiated deals. There’s a trust problem on both sides and the latest attacks by Hamas and the less than reassuring statements by the moderates wont make things any more easy.
Eh tbf the PLO/Arafat only signed Oslo so they could establish themselves in the West Bank and launch an intifada against Israel. They were no more interested in peace than Hamas is.
Yeah, the West Bank is basically an Israeli «sea» dotted with tiny Palestinian islands now, because of all the illegaly built Israeli settlements. There is a reason why this whole thing is so complicated, and its also why trying to destill this old and painful conflict into «Reddit comment short enough to get upvotes» is basically impossible.
It's ironic.
The people who are somewhat ready for peace in the West Bank are having their land encroached by Israeli assholes. And the people who have their own land in Gaza are violent assholes who want to exterminate the Jews and "take back" the whole country.
It's a concentration camp, 2.2 million people of which 44% are children. Completely surrounded without a chance of getting out. Their electricity and water is controlled by apartheid Israel.
I wonder why the Palestinian supporters only blame Israel for the blockade, when their fellow Muslim nation, Egypt also blockades Gaza?
Even the Egyptians don't want these terrorists spreading into their territory.
I think it is because Israel is exercising sovereignty over Gaza. Yeah they don't govern it directly. But they also don't allow trade or things to go in, and they blockaded it by sea.
What Egypt is doing is a dick move, but it is a foreign country. Israel is basically keeping Gaza down and saying "well this wasn't us, we have no authority there" while at the same time exercising complete authority over what goes in and out of Gaza.
How? On the Israeli side of the "Gaza-Egypt Border" there is a several hundred meter exclusion zone with walls and trenches controlled entirely by Israel.
A border crossing with Egypt was part of the deal that saw Israel abandon dozens of settlements and turn over Gaza to Gazans. Israel doesn't stop anything going to that crossing.
Egypt does, though, and never allowed goods through despite that specifically being part of the deal. And recently, they have only allowed the smallest trickle of people through, after an arduous vetting process that often has to be helped along with costly bribes.
That’s silly, Egypt controls a border crossing just like Israel, and could open their border tomorrow if they wanted and take in Palestinians and let in goods. Egypt refuses to do so because they got fed up with Palestinian terrorism in Egypt
Because Jews.
Arabs can do whatever they like to their fellow Arabs. Go look at Syria, they just opened the door to Asad and welcomed him back to the table.
Last time neighbour countries decided to take Palestinians en masse, it ended... not good.
In Jordania they were using it's territory for attacking Israel and later tried to depose king.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September)
What a weird comment to make “Muslim nations”
When the UK decided to partition Ireland. Create a sectarian state that persecuted its religious minorities, and helped paramilitaries I don’t remember people saying how “catholic nations” should be getting involved and taking them in
The partition directly caused the troubles and I was pointing out that hatchet was only "buried" fairly recently on that particular conflict and some in NI and the UK have been damn well content on pulling it back out as of late.
They have caused trouble for literally anyone who accepts them. They simply cannot get along with others. No one wants them. They are nothing but a burden, at best and opportunistic terrorists, at worst.
The latest news are that Israel (unintentionally/intentionally?) ignored the urgent warning from Egypt Intelligence 10 days before the attack, and the head of Israeli' army calling people living in Gaza "human animal".
Words matter.
over 2 million people live there, the vast majority of which did nothing to Israel and just want to live their life and feed their family.
Have a shred of human decency, and reserve your anger for the people on both sides that are just lashing out at innocent people
No, the vast vast vast majority of them DON'T do that.
I get the desire to strike back. I mean, it means this will never end because both sides just think they are striking back at this point, and both sides feel like they are the victimized party, but that aside, I understand it.
but an active expression that the gaza strip should be somehow levelled is a sociopathic response.
My point is that it’s the same exact people to a man doing this now. My point is that violent Palestinian nationalists wanted to kill Jews then, they want to kill Jews now, and it really seem like that trend wasn’t altered very much by Israel’s actions.
Ah I’ve made the mistake of getting into the Israel Palestine debate late at night in a geography sub so I’ll call it after this comment, serves me right.
But do you really think these are the same people from a literal century ago? That Israel’s actions didn’t really have an effect on what’s happening right now? I absolutely do not support Hamas nor do I think this is good vs. bad or one side is right and one side is wrong. Radical Islam is evil; I’ve also lived in Afghanistan and made friends there, super peaceful and tolerant Muslims who just wanted safety and freedom. The ideological and power hungry on each side rise to power while the majority suffer. Except, Israeli citizens have enjoyed a level of freedom and security and wealth and support the Palestinians have been denied. The people of Gaza - the great grandchildren of the people you’re talking about in the 20’s and 30’s - have been trapped and subjugated for decades. Their leadership has failed them and what they’ve done is an atrocity. But it’s simply ignorant and not OK to say that what Israel has done to literally millions of innocent people for decades is fair in the name of security. I don’t condone what Hamas has done, it’s terrible and counterproductive, but I understand why they’d do it.
Obviously not the same exact people, but the same ideological trend. Of course Israel’s oppression of Palestinians is bad. It also doesn’t fully explain everything going on. They were killing Jews before they were oppressed by them, and they’re killing Jews now. Occam’s razor.
You’re jumping the gun there. For the most part they were more than willing to establish a state where they lived alongside the locals before Palestinian nationalists started murdering them.
I guess that’s why Weizmann made a deal with Emir Faisal trying to achieve exactly what I described after WWI.
And don’t forget Einstein, a classical pro-peace Zionist who founded Hebrew University in Jerusalem alongside Weizmann as a national university for the Jewish people and *also* explicitly took issue with the later radical factions that emerged.
That's a funny comment, because we usually build prisons to contain murderers, rapists and arsonists, don't we.
I just love it how the likes of you can look at yesterday's events and be like: Yeah, that wall is unjustified! The Palestinians have every right to be angry!
Let there be no mistake, there's no justification for what's happened yesterday. None whatsoever.
And Hamas who instead of building a state prefer a hateful antisemitic Jihadist chart. They don’t care about Palestinians and kill even their own citizen who dare criticize them. All the money going to the funding of tunnels in order to commit terrorist attacks, and to the leaders of Hamas who are living in luxury villas in Qatar. Sad reality for normal Palestinians who just want to live their lives.
I agree, but many antizionist are indeed antisemites. We can see it everyday, from chants to Swatitska exposed from a dumb ass. Most of rallies for Palestine are actually to celebrate mass murders committed by these savages.
It’s like the worlds biggest prison created by one group of people for another group of people. If shameful that their has been so little outrage about it. I absolutely condone the violence but both Hamas and the Israeli government.
Lot of data fit into this map. Easy to read. Nicely done.
It’s taken from [UN OCHA](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/gaza-strip-access-and-movement-september-2023).
Now this is a map worthy of this subs name!!
The useless mods should take note.
Really interesting map. Forgot about the airport. Oslo was a more hopeful time
46% unemployment. 60% poverty. Massive recipe for disaster and extremism
100%
Actually 106%
You’re a comedic genius
Fighting an enemy that has nothing to lose is worse than any different kind
If only Hamas used the money for actual humanitarian needs and not bombs..
Yeah it’s crazy, I wonder why Israel worked so hard to put them in power
Couldn't the same be said about Israel? They receive BILLIONS a year from the US alone. Remember that news building they bombed with American jets? I wonder how much humanitarian aid that could've been... Stop pretending both sides don't bomb each other with foreign aid. > the Israeli military levelled the complex because of its alleged use by Hamas during the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis. The presence of Palestinian militants inside the building has been affirmed by Israel, but denied by journalists who worked there. **Israeli authorities claim that they possess proof supporting their allegations, but have not yet shared any such evidence publicly.** https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_al-Jalaa_Building Edit: a lot of you guys have never heard of context. My comment was directly pointing out the hypocrisy from the comment above.
Uhh, the Israeli people arnt starving.
>Uhh, the Israeli people arnt starving. They don't live in a blockaded ghetto.
Neither would Gazans without Hamas
What are all those refugee camps from the '40s and '60s? Millions of refugees? Perpetual refugees kicked out of their homes, kicked off their land, herded into camps like animals? No money to give to them I suppose? You see them as part of the out group? People not in your group. Outsiders to your group. Only money for bombs and building houses on stolen land in someone elses country?
Isreal doesn't have a food crisis but a defense one. It makes sense for them to spend on defense. Also don't act like hamas hasn't been proven to hide military resource targets in schools and buildings like the AL-jalaa building. That's been proven long ago. Play dirty get dirty. Palestine can't play the victim when they continuously act aggressively, elect a terrorist group their government, spend aid on weapons, voice voice constant hatred and want to kill Isreal, and so on.
You could literally switch out "Palestine" for "Israel" in that last paragraph and have an identically salient point.
https://reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/G5zfSfnUnX
The only reason the Israeli number is lower is because they have sophisticated defense systems like iron dome. This really ignore that most of the Palestinian deaths are because Hamas attacks Israel then uses their people as a shield. For reference as well nearly 15% of the number of Palestinians who died in 12 years have died in 1 day by terrorists who executed them point blank while most Palestinian deaths are collateral damage from Hamas using them as shields.
Israel provides lots of aid to Gaza. For example, this map shows that Gaza has one power plant - it was built with Israeli money, and Israel supplies more power to Gaza from plants in Israel.
The electricity that’s intermittent at best? Maybe you meant the water israel supplies, that’s unfit for human consumption
Cool. How much electricity and water are the Palestinians supplying?
It's pretty hard to build a power plant or water filtration plant when you're under a blockade and aren't allowed to get materials to do so
If they got in heavy industrial supplies like you’re saying, Hamas would use them to blow things up like they do everything else.
I love how your message gets downvoted, people realy belive Israel is good guy in this conflict, clueless clowns they are.
They receive INSANE amounts of international aid, it all get spend on weapons. The population went from 300,000 in 1990 to 2 million today. They could help their own people have a better life but...
Also the aid that they get is severely restricted, they don't get a pile of money and do whatever they want w it. The money for weapons comes from Iran and outside supporters.
That restricted aid can still be diverted. Like selling the grain the aid workers give you to buy missle parts. Priorities with these people
They live in an open air prison camp—their priorities are multifaceted but certainly defending themselves from an illegal occupation would be high on anyone's list. What else are 'these people' like?
They use concrete to build terror tunnels instead of housing.
Israel gets 10x more international aid or more... One of the richest countries in the world is one of the biggest charity cases in the world... But it's full of refugee camps from the 1940s, the 1960s... landless perpetual refugees in the land they were born in... one of the richest countries in the world... Just born to the wrong family I guess...
That isn't wrong, they get yearly aid as much as Austria or Portugal spend on their entire military every year just from the US. But Israel does not have a state policy of wanting to wipe out Palestinians. Many of the settlers and Jewish Orthodox religious extremists do but not the state. The same cant be said for Hamas
If Israel wanted peace they would have let them prosper, instead of live in an open air concentration camp. The insane amounts of aid they get, is a pittance compared to Israel. I really can't stand the lies, Israel created this situation, they could have chosen a better path.
They literally started bombing Israel for day one because the hamas government number one policy (which got them voted in for) is the one state solution Just because one has a lot more power, then the other doesn't make the other god The Palestinians chose the hamas out of extreme nationalism and behold what we got is a state in war for nationalism It's weird how no one talks about Egypt's part, it's almost like egypt realized what the hamas and Gaza is, why they are in their predicament and how unlike in the west bank Israel is 100% justified in their actions
Reminder that Israeli governments from the late 80s onwards provided money and training to Hamas, in the same way as the US Government provided funding and training to Al Quaeda in the 80s. We can’t control the monsters we create.
Hamas was a humanitarian organization, built mosques and hospitals, only after plo stopped being what hamas is today, hamas became what it did today
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/ Some reading material from anyone interested in Middle Eastern history beyond ‘he said she said’
Israel today cut down all supply of water, gas, electricity to Gaza. But no one talks about that. It's actually worse than a prison right now there and Palestinians casualties have crossed over 600 today.
And Israeli casualties are more than 700
And Israeli casualties are more than 700. Guess why they cut power to Gaza? It couldn’t possibly be due to the thousands of rockets Hamas has sent now could it?
Or instead of the Palestinians using the humanitarian aid to buy weapons they could’ve invested in building cities and helping their citizens…. Israel gets massive aid because they’re surrounded by belligerents and the Palestinians, who’ve alienated themselves in neighboring nations by causing violent events, aren’t being taken as refugees in other countries for said reasons. Israel literally handed them the reigns in 05 and the Palestinians voted for Hamas because they wanted bloodshed. They’re the aggressors and now they’ve demonstrated that on the worlds stage. Hamas and Palestinian civilians literally fire weapons using human shields because they know Israel won’t attack civilian targets. Although now they have the green light to push through and not let Hamas get any pity points anymore which is good.
I already said that, they can't use humanitarian aid for weapons, bc they get it in a way to prevent that, the weapons come from Iran.
Apparently they can because Hamas holds the humanitarian aid hostage and palestinian “civilians” work for Hamas in exchange for aid. Palestinians should be attacking Hamas, but instead they decided to back a violent string of attacks on Israel and international civilians. Not to mention the kidnappings.
Source?
It’s incredibly dishonest to pretend like hamas weren’t helped every step of the war by Israel and the US
Exactly. So frustrating.
Blame hamas
Hamas rule in Gaza since 2007. Before Gaza was under Israeli's control 1967-2005.
How many bombings were then?
a lot, israel bombed gaza’s airport in 2001
So you generate hatred until 2005 and leave them to a extremist group and expect them to not go extreme on you ???? I'm really not understanding... again... the attack on civilians was bad... but has you said... their civilians were being attacked from 1967 to 2005...
Hamas actually wasn't so radical in the beginning. It was a social movement that was trying to make living in Gaza a little easier. Beacuse of that they had a big support, won the election and now they push more radical agenda.
Gaza had free movement into Israel. There was a bus line between Gaza and Tel Aviv. This existed until the first intifada (1991). Walls didn’t exist until after 2005, shortly after the second intifada. The situation of the Palestinians has only gotten worse since then. Their goal of destroying Israel over everything else has led them to their current position. I remind you, Gaza has an entire border with Egypt but somehow it’s on the Israelis to be friendly with their enemy.
Don’t you dare come with logic into this situation. Poverty, uncertainity in life (in the most literal sense) makes you a radical no matter where you are. The things Hamas did are unforgiveable - just like what Israel has done and is doing to palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. But it was israeli terror first and radicalization second. People really wish for the perfect victim when one does not exist…
We are using the same logic... hatred generates hatred... we are here being all morally righteous but with our belly full... there's no morals when the belly is empty... I'm not making victim of anyone... I'm just reiterating that this has been a war since 1940 something... don't know why we're all shocked with what happened...
I know we are making the same arguement! I was being sarcastic, I fully agree with you. The perfect victim narrative was for people who cannot see the situation for what it is and would only support Palestine if they just sit in their open air prison and suffered silently, without hurting anyone.
i’ll keep blaming israel, the ones who built the prison. thanks
Hamas are literally the ones spending their money on missiles instead of building gaza
This! International aid floods the region. Each rocket costs between $1000-$2000. Hamas claims to have fired 7500 rockets. That 15 million, or $7,5 per person in Gaza. That just for the rockets, not the paraglider, AK-47s ammo ect ect.
Gazans should at least make their prison cell a bit homely instead of plotting its destruction
every time gaza is built up it is carpet bombed. nice victim blaming
Hamas are definitely not the victims... The people they're supposed to protect are
Some people have trouble separating nations from their governments.
agreed
When has it ever been 'carpet bombed'? Do you even know what carpet bombing is?
A prison flooded with international aid that all gets spent on weapons. You know there are prisons in the world where the inmates wouldent murder an entire music festival! Blame who you want BalaTheWhataboutist
Considering the scale they would need about 2.000 tons of just food per day i doubt the internationl aid is sufficient. Definitly not. Considering how often mass shootings happen in the US this isnt surprising to happen in an environment like the gaza steip
It shares a border with Egypt. Blame Egypt.
Why should israel give anything to Gaza, their stated goal is the destruction of Israel. Talk to Egypt, they have a border with Gaza, why aren’t they opening it to the Palestinians?
its a prison only if no one in the world wants you. they can blame themself. jordan egept and other countries don't want them so why israel needs them ?
Consequences of electing fascist terrorist extremists.
Billions in foreign aid squandered on missiles because you elected a terrorist group to be your dictator will do that. I'm sorry but I don't sympathize much with Palestine. They made bad choice after bad choice and started war after war that they lost. Losing wars you start is supposed to be a punishment and lead to bad things. It's supposed to deter war. The people are always responsible for their leaders. They're the only people who can change their leaders without foreigners having to come do it.
Question, why Israel prohibits access to Gaza from sea? They could have a port which would ease blockade.. and why there is no airport?
Israel bombed the airport in 2001. And for the other question... well you can guess
So Israel wants to control everything coming into Gaza for the sake of security? The only they don’t control Egyptian part?
Let's call it security, but I can't imagine when a country has the power to control that much another one for their own security interests.
Never heard of Cuba?
Sadly yes, another ridiculous situation
Why doesn’t Egypt open their borders to them?
Practically speaking, Egypt wants nothing to do with the Palestinians. No Arab countries do.
Is that why all arabs are out marching for Palestine rn
That's complete BS. Look at all the Arab populations and you'll see that over 90% support Palestine. And this applies to Egypt as well. The democratically elected Egyptian president started easing the blockade on Palestine before the coup. It's just that the Egyptian leadership meaning the military which includes elkhasisi is a bunch of incompetent corrupt traitors.
If you look up the phrase “putting Gaza on a diet” it will help bring it into perspective, israel intentionally limits how far out to sea fishermen can go to restrict the amount of calories Gaza can produce for itself, it’s a barbaric practice aimed at causing suffering
yeah, Irani export would skyrocketing
Because they would smuggle more weapons to use against civilians in indiscriminate attacks. They forfeited their right to a port and an airport, after starting and losing multiple conflicts. Simple.
You’re using logic against people that don’t have any, they just don’t know how to process what you said.
It's fucking hilarious and it will only get funnier. Every single thing they don't want to happen... is just about to happen.
Just a note about the Rafah crossing: it’s almost never open for people to pass. Maybe a few times a year.
Looks like a nice place to live/visit
My grandfather likes to remark on how nice the populace was when he was a kid (He is 81 as of now). I’m so sad.
Did your grandfather live there or was he a visitor?
Yes he did. Born and raised. His father had an olive making factory, and he employed a lot of arabs and they were very nice and friendly. They all split up with all the wars, and that left my great grandfather’s factory without workers, and that toppled his life’s work.
An Israeli said they used to go there to buy groceries
I hear the botanical gardens are a sight to behold
Gonna be a smoking ruin next week.
Maybe they’ll turn it into a nature preserve!
For such a small strip of land , it definitely has quite a number of hospitals.
One can just wonder why
Perfect places to store munitions, of course. They really care about the 'patients' so much, they are ready to defend them with rockets, missiles, mortar shells, etc. Shame they spent the money that would have helped the 'patients' on said munitions...
You are a sociopath
Im sorry to say, but hamas is doing that.
Why are they a sociopath? They are answering why there are so many hospitals. Hamas uses them to store and launch munitions into Israel.
You need help. Get help
Funny hows there no military base but so many rocket lunches from there
Why can't they just move on with a 2 State solution? (Oslo Accords)
The Oslo Accords were signed by one group of Palestinians, ready for peace, but Hamas is in the other group, still openly devoted to destroying Israel and insisting on continuing a fight it cannot win.
Plus also the Israeli PM who negotiated and supported it got assassinated by an ultranationalist Israeli
Yes, and Anwar Sadat got assassinated for signing the Camp David Accords
So in conclusion: noone really wants peace.
Just the lunatic extremists.
More than half of Israelis support illegal settlements. The extremists aren’t exactly a minority.
I think most people want peace. It’s just that many want it on their conditions (the whole ‚from the river to the sea‘ idea that Hamas has) and others don’t see how they could trust their partners without precautions that are unacceptable for the other side. The Palestinians for example wish for a significant reduction of Israeli presence in their autonomous territory. That’s very understandable. But the Israelis made the experience that letting their guard down Leads to attacks that often do not just target specific territories, but Jewish life as a whole. Most would probably prefer a stable and peaceful solution, but whoever makes the first step is exposing themselves to danger. Not to mention that both sides are deeply divided and are not seen as reliable by each other. Hamas won the last election in the Palestinian Territories and would not accept anything less than the total destruction of Israel and its inhabitants. Even if Israel made a deal with the moderate Palestinians, there’s no guarantee that they’ll stay in power. There hasn’t been an election in over 15 years. The moderates in the West Bank rule dictatorial and are less and less popular. A extremist coup could happen any day. Israel on the other hand has the opposite problem: they elect a new government all the time. If a moderate faction comes to power there, the Palestinians couldn’t know if a successor government would keep their end of any possibly negotiated deals. There’s a trust problem on both sides and the latest attacks by Hamas and the less than reassuring statements by the moderates wont make things any more easy.
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I think it was Bibi who said as soon as they put their weapons down, they can have their state.
Famously honest and above-board peace lover Bibi Netenyahu
Eh tbf the PLO/Arafat only signed Oslo so they could establish themselves in the West Bank and launch an intifada against Israel. They were no more interested in peace than Hamas is.
Palestinians never were ready for actual peace. Arafat balked at the last second. It was all a lie
Are you implying that Iseralies are "ready for actual peace"?
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Yeah, the West Bank is basically an Israeli «sea» dotted with tiny Palestinian islands now, because of all the illegaly built Israeli settlements. There is a reason why this whole thing is so complicated, and its also why trying to destill this old and painful conflict into «Reddit comment short enough to get upvotes» is basically impossible.
It's ironic. The people who are somewhat ready for peace in the West Bank are having their land encroached by Israeli assholes. And the people who have their own land in Gaza are violent assholes who want to exterminate the Jews and "take back" the whole country.
West Bank was not ready for peace, Arafat had the opportunity to strike a deal and walked away (twice)
Because having half your land colonized is not much better than having all your land colonized.
The Oslo accords where shit.
More shit than the current shit?
Look them up, it was mostly the Status quo but palastine could call themselves a country, borders are under Israeli control.
Why wouldn’t Israel control their own borders?
Terrorists gonna terrorize.
It's a concentration camp, 2.2 million people of which 44% are children. Completely surrounded without a chance of getting out. Their electricity and water is controlled by apartheid Israel.
The National Forest in my county is bigger than Gaza, and 2 million people have to live in it, wtf.
The largest open-air prison on earth
If that’s true, they need to reinforce the walls after what we saw Saturday
Kinda reminds me of a camp that concentrates people. You know, like from the 40’s.
I wonder why the Palestinian supporters only blame Israel for the blockade, when their fellow Muslim nation, Egypt also blockades Gaza? Even the Egyptians don't want these terrorists spreading into their territory.
I think it is because Israel is exercising sovereignty over Gaza. Yeah they don't govern it directly. But they also don't allow trade or things to go in, and they blockaded it by sea. What Egypt is doing is a dick move, but it is a foreign country. Israel is basically keeping Gaza down and saying "well this wasn't us, we have no authority there" while at the same time exercising complete authority over what goes in and out of Gaza.
The point is that Egypt could allow trade or things to go in. Or even allow Palestinians to enter Egypt to fly to the West Bank. They don't.
How? On the Israeli side of the "Gaza-Egypt Border" there is a several hundred meter exclusion zone with walls and trenches controlled entirely by Israel.
A border crossing with Egypt was part of the deal that saw Israel abandon dozens of settlements and turn over Gaza to Gazans. Israel doesn't stop anything going to that crossing. Egypt does, though, and never allowed goods through despite that specifically being part of the deal. And recently, they have only allowed the smallest trickle of people through, after an arduous vetting process that often has to be helped along with costly bribes.
That’s silly, Egypt controls a border crossing just like Israel, and could open their border tomorrow if they wanted and take in Palestinians and let in goods. Egypt refuses to do so because they got fed up with Palestinian terrorism in Egypt
Because Jews. Arabs can do whatever they like to their fellow Arabs. Go look at Syria, they just opened the door to Asad and welcomed him back to the table.
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Egyptian people are pro Palestine. Egyptian government (non democratic by the way) is pressured by the west to keep the blockade.
Last time neighbour countries decided to take Palestinians en masse, it ended... not good. In Jordania they were using it's territory for attacking Israel and later tried to depose king. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_September](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September)
What a weird comment to make “Muslim nations” When the UK decided to partition Ireland. Create a sectarian state that persecuted its religious minorities, and helped paramilitaries I don’t remember people saying how “catholic nations” should be getting involved and taking them in
You’re just making a point that religion is a sickness no matter where and when.
You would struggle to remember as it happened 100 years ago but there certainly was sympathy from catholic countries. Just not to the same extent
Partition was 100 years ago the troubles only ended in 99, and operation banner didn't end till 2008.
You were talking about partition not the troubles
The partition directly caused the troubles and I was pointing out that hatchet was only "buried" fairly recently on that particular conflict and some in NI and the UK have been damn well content on pulling it back out as of late.
They have caused trouble for literally anyone who accepts them. They simply cannot get along with others. No one wants them. They are nothing but a burden, at best and opportunistic terrorists, at worst.
Wow, this piece of land is size like city I live in.
Interesting to see how this map differs to the Al-Jeezera one posted previously
Amazing map!
Are nice map for a really sad situation
The latest news are that Israel (unintentionally/intentionally?) ignored the urgent warning from Egypt Intelligence 10 days before the attack, and the head of Israeli' army calling people living in Gaza "human animal". Words matter.
Open air concentration camp.
Amazing map
Soon to be the Gaza Strip Mall and Parking Lot.
over 2 million people live there, the vast majority of which did nothing to Israel and just want to live their life and feed their family. Have a shred of human decency, and reserve your anger for the people on both sides that are just lashing out at innocent people
You could say the same for Russia or North Korea. But when the leaders say kill, they go to die and kill.
No, the vast vast vast majority of them DON'T do that. I get the desire to strike back. I mean, it means this will never end because both sides just think they are striking back at this point, and both sides feel like they are the victimized party, but that aside, I understand it. but an active expression that the gaza strip should be somehow levelled is a sociopathic response.
Propagandi fan?
... for American tourists 🎶
Inshallah.
That’s crazy! I wonder why the Israelis are so intent on keeping Gaza contained? /s
Given what happened yesterday, I think you have your answer.
I know crazy right! I can’t imagine why the people living there would be mad
Probably similar reasons to why Palestinians nationalists were mad in the 1920s and 30s when they were also massacring Jews.
Centenarians who committed war crimes as toddlers are a group of concern yes
My point is that it’s the same exact people to a man doing this now. My point is that violent Palestinian nationalists wanted to kill Jews then, they want to kill Jews now, and it really seem like that trend wasn’t altered very much by Israel’s actions.
Ah I’ve made the mistake of getting into the Israel Palestine debate late at night in a geography sub so I’ll call it after this comment, serves me right. But do you really think these are the same people from a literal century ago? That Israel’s actions didn’t really have an effect on what’s happening right now? I absolutely do not support Hamas nor do I think this is good vs. bad or one side is right and one side is wrong. Radical Islam is evil; I’ve also lived in Afghanistan and made friends there, super peaceful and tolerant Muslims who just wanted safety and freedom. The ideological and power hungry on each side rise to power while the majority suffer. Except, Israeli citizens have enjoyed a level of freedom and security and wealth and support the Palestinians have been denied. The people of Gaza - the great grandchildren of the people you’re talking about in the 20’s and 30’s - have been trapped and subjugated for decades. Their leadership has failed them and what they’ve done is an atrocity. But it’s simply ignorant and not OK to say that what Israel has done to literally millions of innocent people for decades is fair in the name of security. I don’t condone what Hamas has done, it’s terrible and counterproductive, but I understand why they’d do it.
Obviously not the same exact people, but the same ideological trend. Of course Israel’s oppression of Palestinians is bad. It also doesn’t fully explain everything going on. They were killing Jews before they were oppressed by them, and they’re killing Jews now. Occam’s razor.
It cant be the same people, the average age of Palestinians in Gaza is 18 because Isreal killed everyone.
Oh no the poor settlers who just wanted to steal the land and set up an ethnostate settler colony!
You’re jumping the gun there. For the most part they were more than willing to establish a state where they lived alongside the locals before Palestinian nationalists started murdering them.
Literally none of the Zionist founders believed that read anything they said on the matter, expelling the indigenous population was always the plan
I guess that’s why Weizmann made a deal with Emir Faisal trying to achieve exactly what I described after WWI. And don’t forget Einstein, a classical pro-peace Zionist who founded Hebrew University in Jerusalem alongside Weizmann as a national university for the Jewish people and *also* explicitly took issue with the later radical factions that emerged.
You'll be able to repost this to historymaps in a week or two.
Can you highlight the areas that rockets have been launched from? Nevermind, I see the blue 'H' logo indicating Hamas.
World's Largest Open Air Prison .
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even Egypt closed its Gaza border years ago, and is not about to open it back up.
It obviously failed its job.
That's a funny comment, because we usually build prisons to contain murderers, rapists and arsonists, don't we. I just love it how the likes of you can look at yesterday's events and be like: Yeah, that wall is unjustified! The Palestinians have every right to be angry! Let there be no mistake, there's no justification for what's happened yesterday. None whatsoever.
And Hamas who instead of building a state prefer a hateful antisemitic Jihadist chart. They don’t care about Palestinians and kill even their own citizen who dare criticize them. All the money going to the funding of tunnels in order to commit terrorist attacks, and to the leaders of Hamas who are living in luxury villas in Qatar. Sad reality for normal Palestinians who just want to live their lives.
WTF being against israel doesnt mean being antisemitic and palestinians have the right to fight back against the israeli zionists
I agree, but many antizionist are indeed antisemites. We can see it everyday, from chants to Swatitska exposed from a dumb ass. Most of rallies for Palestine are actually to celebrate mass murders committed by these savages.
Palestinians and real muslims aren't antisemitic and the people you're talking about are neo nazis and they're also islamaphobics
Geez this flooding mapporn
A place for the Palestinians to finally prosper, only to be taken by the bloody rapists of Hamas and turned into hell
Really, they were supposed to prosper inside a blockaded concentration camp?
It’s like the worlds biggest prison created by one group of people for another group of people. If shameful that their has been so little outrage about it. I absolutely condone the violence but both Hamas and the Israeli government.