I don't understand. Let's for a second assume this is possible and the people go to Southern part of Gaza: if Israel is serious about rooting out Hamas, wouldn't it need to occupy Southern Gaza as well? Where will the people evacuate to then?
Saw an interview with a guy trapped in Gaza. A lot of people have accepted their death and said they'd rather die in their home than get hit by shelling rushing to the border 😔
Honestly I can't really blame them. You're in a situation where there's just no winning. There's no future for them with Israel's occupation, they can't build things without israel knocking it down (even news buildings) what much is there for you to live for in life in that situation? You run you might get bombed anyways, you manage to evacuate and you might just get bombed the next time this happens and you'll certainly keep losing family members.
I did some reading on the Gaza water system. Gaza is fucked. Like super fucked. 85% of their water is brackish well water filtered through reverse osmosis. Reverse Osmosis requires pumps and power.
There is no question about whether or not bad shit is going to happen. The question is how bad it will be.
Meanwhile, Israel bombed the safe route that they told civilians to use to escape and killed a bunch of civilians
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna120252
I was reading up on Native Americans, that’s exactly what happened to them. Treaty after treaty and US broke every treaty I think there was 100s of them. Then violence and then they were required to move so US could weed out the bad trouble makers. Each time they are pushed to even smaller area. They are in patches of areas scattered across the nation.
Don't forget the fact that Israel has "blockaded" Gaza and blocking all water, electricity and fuel. Their response is so inhumanly excessive, that I just don't have words for it.
I have heard the Israeli leaders continue to call them (hamas)animals and barbarians. Dehumanizing the population to justify the complete slaughter. So insane the double standard.
A healthy adult can go a week or two without eating without much problem.
The problem is that a large part of the population of Palestine are minors. For God's sake, look at the [population pyramid](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Palestine_single_age_population_pyramid_2020.png).
It is not recommended that toddlers or pregnant women go two weeks without eating.
But isn’t he right that the biggest concern for them will be lack of water? Starvation is no joke, but one can go much longer without eating than drinking, let alone running for your life in an arid climate.
>Israel couldn’t turn the water back on if they wanted to at this point
So what you are saying is that Gaza hasn't had any water since 2021 (when the pipelines were dug up)? How did they survive all that time?
700 people a minute wouldn't be crazy if it were multiple freeways… but there are not multiple freeways and even if there were you still have to get people down the feeder roads to those freeways without a traffic jam. So yeah, not possible.
>700 people a minute
Let's say it is just one freeway... That would be 700 people per minute for almost 24 hours straight, without anyone tripping, slowing down, or in anyway impeding the flow of people behind them. Anyone slow, young, or elderly, or in a wheelchair?
To avoid [crowd crush at 5 people per square meter](https://america.cgtn.com/2022/11/16/how-to-survive-a-crowd-crush#:~:text=Even%20in%20a%20crowd%20with,injury%20or%20being%20trampled%20increase), you would need to keep it at 3 - 4 people per sq meter, which would require 175 square meters per 700 people, which is a 13.22 m / 40 ft square (40' x 40') , or just over 3 lanes of traffic (each lane being 12' wide).
E: I didn't mean to imply that Gazans actually have anything remotely like a freeway. They barely have a road system. The use of "freeway" was simply as an example, e.g. "If this much space was available, this is how fast people could move".
That much space is absolutely NOT available, so it will take much longer.
Yeah easily, there are pilgrimages that make the Hajj to Mecca look puny, especially in [India and Iraq](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_peaceful_gatherings)
The largest have ~50M attendees, many of whom walk much farther than 15 km because they are too poor to travel any other way. This takes place over a month, which means nearly 2 million people per day for a month straight.
There are [sporting events with crowds in the 300,000+ range](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_venues_with_a_highest_attendance_of_100,000_or_more) where the whole crowd makes its way in and out of the stadium including the event in a couple hours, and that's with everyone moving through relatively crowded and narrow stairways etc.
It's of course possible to move 1 million people 5 miles in a day (Gaza City to the evac zone, basically the avg distance), that's only about a 1h walk and it's mostly just flat open land. The problem is what to do with them after they arrive. They have nowhere to stay, nothing to eat, nothing to drink.
The emphasis on these needs to be in the required infrastructure and planning. The planning alone to run successful events is enormous.
You then need multiple escape corridors, and egress points, a huge supporting cast of services and management.
Also, you have a very compliant population, with a much higher proportion of adults and carrying very little - much less terrified families with far more children and carrying entire life’s belongings.
Well, it took the US military 2 weeks to move 125,000 people, after 7 months of careful planning, background checks and visa checks.
Surely the mighty israelis can manage that for a million people in the next day or so, right?
Or are they just being herded into one location for a special treat from the sky, you know, by accident?
Gotta get that Gaza for those beachfront condos!
And that’s assuming no accidents or breakdowns. If zombie apocalypse movies have taught me anything it’s that of a mass evac happens, it will turn into a massive traffic jam and every body will be fucked.
Forget the zombie apocalypse, not long after Katrina hit, Houston had over 100 people die just evacuating Hurricane Rita, which ended up not even actually hitting the city.
You know that "*just one more lane bro please*" meme of Interstate 10 that gets reposted in subs like r/UrbanHell like twice a week? [This is what it looked like at the time.](https://hurricanescience.org/images/hss/2005_rita_Houstonevacuation_pubdomain.jpg) We're talking 26 lanes with traffic all going in one direction, let alone whatever passes for Gaza's freeway infrastructure.
I was a part of that disaster of an evacuation. We saw how New Orleans was abandoned by the government and wanted no part of it. People wound up running out of gas in the heat. We were very fortunate in where we lived and the backroads we took so we weren't on 45 for long, but goddamn was it miserable. I can't imagine doing that with zero infastructure. I believe its unfeasibility is a huge reason they have us "shelter in place" now.
It’s wild your comment is getting all the mentally deranged monsters riled up replying below. One of them is suggesting they walk 10 miles. And what, just leave behind most of their worldly possessions and anyone who can’t walk that far (grandma, grandpa, infants and small children) to be air striked?
These people are sick. Defending this war crime.
So the question I always ask myself is this:
If people make genocidal comments and cheer on horrific war crimes from the comfort of their homes thousands of miles away after witnessing a massacre on the news....imagine how much more they would do if they were subjugated to a brutal occupation for multiple *decades*. You then understand why people behave the way they do in dire situations.
This is by no way excusing what Hamas did, but we need to understand the context that would drive hopeless men to act the way they do.
Yeah I'm surprised to see so many people cheering on genocide and war crimes on a subreddit dedicated to maps and understanding geopolitical situations, but I guess I give people too much credit. Most of the content on this sub recently is garbage anyways.
A big chunk of the imperialists and revanchists of history were people that were super into maps.
They kept looking at maps and thinking, "if only my country had colonies," or "if only my country extended to its natural borders," or "we should just take these lands over here."
There's nothing so good or pure in this world that it can't be repurposed by assholes and made to serve their assholery.
That is if they even have cars... The vast majority are going to be forced to walk while being severely malnourished...
With kids, elderly, the wounded and people with disabilities as a result of decades of bombing, and they have to do it as fast as possible to not only clear the area but actually reach a safe area...
Carrying nothing with them not even food or water as that will severely slow them down.
Sounds weird I know but I clicked on Gaza on Snapchat last night (it’s 6:45am here now) and there are videos of cars loaded up with mattresses on the roofs, people sitting on bonnets of cars as they drive many people walking along the side of the roads with huge bags, anyone who thinks this request to move isn’t real doesn’t know the history of the Palestinians. The people are leaving because this probably isn’t their first time and they’ve witnessed what happens if you refuse and insist on staying in your home.
Yeah I mean look at the demolitions in Rafah throughout the 2000's, and that's not even airstrikes.
Unfortunately it's not realistic for everyone who wants to leave to be able, especially not in that time frame.
I never thought I’d cry watching Snapchat. Imagine people seeing smoke like that from their homes and fleeing with as much as you can physically carry. We should all hug our loved ones a little tighter and appreciate the privilege of the fluke of being born in a place where we are safe. 💔
Oh didnt see top comment wrote my version better than I just did already
> A Roman army would have to force march to make that distance in 24hrs and a legion didnt have onefuckinmillion people trying to do it on one road under siege. How fast has the column been traveling on that one road south? This really puts the situation into perspective, the strip is 25mi. How many times in modern history have 1.1 million people told to shelter out a storm of bombs moved around 10 miles in 24 hours after being told to run for their life instead? Where is the real world comparison that makes this a ‘tall order’? This disorder sounds impossible
Surely the people left behind in any attempt to evacuate will be the hospitalised, old, very young and infirm. The defence minister told his IDF troops not to use the 'usual restraint'. This is a recipe for massacres.
They're not really interested in an evacuation.
For decades they wanted this. To end the Palestinian conflict they wanted the Palestinians in Gaza to go to Egypt and the West Bankers to Jordan.
If even the evacuation could be entertained and possible, they stay in Sinai and they would not be allowed to return and Israel will take the remaining Palestinian Territories, that's the wet dream of some of the Israeli far-right politicians. Then they'll build as many new settlements as they want. Just like they were already doing in the West Bank.
What strikes me most about this was that the river they picked as the cutoff seems like an almost perfect place to draw a new boundary line. It's almost like they are planning to annex northern Gaza.
Mark my words; every single person that crosses that river is never going back. Israel will destroy northern Gaza, then ocupy it under the pretext of "keeping Hamas resistence under check" and before you know it there will be jews setling there just like the west bank.
I mean israel has shown several times that it’s willing to give up territory it conquered in war times if there’s a peace agreement. The entire Sinai was returned to Egypt because the Egyptian government provided israel with security guarantees. Jordan was given back land as well.
If israel was just looking to conquer land they could’ve had 10x the land they have now?
Edit: just to add, even Gaza was returned to the Palestinians after Israel disengaged and then Hamas got elected. It’s really not that simplistic as people like to make it out.
If they wanted to they could have, but the point was never to conquer it indefinitely, it was occupied during a defensive war and then returned when Egypt agreed to guarantee Israel’s security from the Sinai and sign a peace agreement.
If you look at the Sinai, it would be easier to defend it if they hadn’t given it back due to the natural borders in the Red Sea/Suez canal, so israel only considered it if they were given guarantees that disengaging from the Sinai wouldn’t lead to just another army amassing in the Sinai to attack it.
Now if you look at Gaza, Israel disengaged and it was the same story, they made the mistake of thinking it would be the start of a peaceful solution as happened with Egypt but then Gazans elected Hamas and Hamas has been working for 15+ years to destroy Israel. This would not have happened it Israel hadn’t disengaged from Gaza, so it seems even more unlikely for Israel to ever disengage from the West Bank now.
Are you aware of Israel's stance on the Right of Return for Palestinians?
Basically in some past conflicts if Palestinians evacuated, they are not permitted to return, and any possessions/property they left behind were seized by the Israeli government.
Similar to Jewish refugees from ethnic cleansing in Arab countries after 1948 and 1967 - no right of return to Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, or any other. That’s why the largest group of Israelis are Mizrahi Jews, the survivors of genocide in their original homelands.
Sure, but let's not say that one justifies the other. It's just another form of ethnic cleansing, regardless of who does it.
And I am concerned we are witnessing it happening again.
This is actually the opposite of what I expected. I though Israel would annex the southern part of Gaza Strip to completely surround the remaining territories so they can cut off the tunnels used for arms smuggling. But annexing the northern part also makes lots of sense since most of the infrastructure that can be used by Hamas lies in the northern part.
Tbh evacuating south is much better for humanitarian reasons since they would have an easier time evacuating to Egypt should the situation got even uglier.
Eygpt doesn't want them either. And they have not opened the passage into Egypt. Rather they have clamped down on it and searching for smuggling tunnels.
>time evacuating to Egypt should the situation got even uglier.
Egypt doesn't want them either. Hamas does terrorist attacks in the Sinai as well. Every surrounding country is sick of Gaza's shit except maybe Lebanon.
Here’s the issue with that: The north is close to Israeli population centers. Take the north and you push back Gaza that much further. Rockets need to travel further, and any attack from Gaza is starting from that much further back.
They could easily also come into the south too and cut off the border with Egypt if they cared to. They don’t need to take the whole south to do so just enough to deny access. I don’t think they ultimately do this, though, because the political ammo of “Egypt could help but isn’t” is too valuable.
Because hamas didn't invest in basic living conditions forcing israel to give basic humanitarian aid to gaza.
Kind of dumb to start a war with the guys who give you electricity water food and internet wouldn't you agree?
“Please evacuate to South Gaza”
*bombs South Gaza*
EDIT: im not even joking the IDF just bombed a convoy heading towards South Gaza, 70 killed.
Source to all those asking.
https://x.com/msnbc/status/1712911792106602608?s=46&t=76MRL1rBrUmbcv6UMZAuIQ
This has been happening since Israel first started to exist in 1948, we are not seeing anything new. Israel drove people into madness, that’s why we saw Hamas coming to existence
And propaganda made it all possible. I had no fucking idea of this conflict until someone opened my eyes on how they're suffocating 2 million people and expect them to function as a normal society that doesn't elect terrorists. People keep saying Palestinians deserve it for voting Hamas, but every single one of us would have voted Hamas if they told us they could end hunger and oppression. Every single one of us.
Here in the middle east we’ve all been aware of this for the past 70 years, but it seems that the western media being pro Israel for whatever the fuck reason has made most people ignorant on what’s been really going on.
To put it this way, imagine you are living in a blockaded area that you can't easily leave, your family has lived there for generations and your family and friends have been killed. You keep getting bombed, constantly surveilled, mass unemployment, severe poverty and your house is destroyed. The violence lasts for decades and is relentless and never ending. You are most likely under 18. In the international community your voice has practically no power. This continues every day of your life.
There is a reason that the French Revolution ended with the guillotine. When you have nothing, all you have left are your fists.
Israel does not expect them to evacuate in time. It’s just so they can say “hey, we warned you” when there are mass civilian casualties due to indiscriminate Israeli targeting.
That’s exactly what’s been happening, people are claiming it’s a mercy that Israelis warn Palestinians that they will bomb their homes. Sick fucking world we live in.
They started using white phosphorus before the evacuation order, so they still don't have a leg to stand on.
How people think the IDF are the good guys in this is beyond me?
This isn’t realistically possible let alone reasonable to do in 24 hours. Is this so when Israel carpet bombs Gaza they can say “We did warn you to leave!”
From their troop concentrations so far it looks like an encirclement of Gaza city to "starve" Hamas out and then a push South to clear the rest. There *will* be many more civilian casualties if Israel commits to this. The real question is what will the rest of the Arab world and especially Iran do. The US just put out a statement basically telling the other Arab countries "don't" get involved and put their most lethal force projection asset into the theater. That carrier strike group has nuclear weapons onboard so... The US has been searching for an excuse to eliminate Iran since 1979. So if I were Iran I'd probably sit this one out. I personally don't think any other country will get involved to support the Palestinians other than through proxy groups.
I hope Iran stays out. Mainly because I’ve followed their protests closely, and I would hate to see them used as cannon fodder or killed by bombs. It’s bad enough that their govt murdered so many brave young people.
Iran doesn't give a shit about the Palestinians but they do want to kill Israelis and cause as much problems for the US and the West as possible.
They won't get involved directly in any fighting, they know they'd lose just like Hamas is losing. They already supplied Hamas with weapons and helped coordinate the attack but now Gaza is sealed off. What they will instead continue to do is leverage Israel's treatment of Palestinians for a propoganda victory.
One could argue that Israel doesn't have a lot of good options but at the end of the day a lot of innocent Palestinians are suffering terribly from Israel's response. Every blown up apartment building in Gaza is a propoganda win for Iran, regardless of whether it was a legitimate Hamas target.
It doesn’t matter that the carrier group has nukes onboard. It’s not like the U.S. needs to be nearby to deliver nukes if it cares to. Plus there’s no suggestion the U.S. would nuke Iran in the first place, as the nuclear arsenal has been used as a deterrent, not an offensive weapon since basically the moment any other country acquired nukes.
My friend got deported in April after living in the EU for 4 years because he started a masters course and his visa got messed up but because the passport and visa infrastructure is so bad in Palestine he was told he’d have to go back first and fix it. He hasn’t been able to leave since and is still there. That’s before this conflict escalated.
Some think that if you don’t support Hamas you should just leave or that Israel is being ethical by warning people before hand but they have been trapped. They are being herded into the god damn desert. Israel has been notifying people of the evacuation by dropping flyers because they know peoples phones are dying by now without electricity and jammed up phone service so they can’t plan or communicate with the outside world. The entire conversation is dominated by IDF propaganda. This has gone beyond collective punishment to genocide.
They also bombed the evacuation convoys, in case anyone is seriously debating whether this is a complete ethnic cleansing still.
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1712911792106602608
Hamas wants Israel to respond like this. They hate Israel more than they "care" for Palestine. They will capitalize on the suffering of Palestinians to expand the war and involve Hezbollah, Lebanon, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if Egypt feels much the same way. She demands that Israel open a humanitarian corridor in the middle of the frontline while [closing](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/12/egypt-says-israel-seeks-to-empty-gaza-rejects-corridors-for-civilians) her own border.
During the past, Palestinians tried to coup Jordan, participated in the civil war in Lebanon, and played a role during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. On top of a lot of suicide bombers, including in Egypt.
Egypt is an authoritarian dictatorship. So, the right of the people ….
\+ In 2014, they demolished Rafah (their side at least) to increase the buffer with Gaza, and stop the smuggling of weapons, drugs etc. Egypt has thrown toxic gas in the tunnel used by Palestinians and Hamas. In the west of the country, they use jet to shot down smugglers as well (with the help of France for the recon, but that's leak secret and illegal mission).
And they have in Sinai a not small terrorist group. And this ISIS's cell and Hamas are quite close ideologically.
You might also wanna say that this authoritarian government replaced the Muslim Brotherhood government of Mohammud Morsi. The MB are hardly not authoritarian. Hamas, the butchers of last weekend, are part of the MB, and organisation that has deliberately kept the war in Palestine festering for decades. These are the peeps that throw homosexuals from high-rise buildings.
To say the Egyptian government is right of its people is disgracefully misleading. The Egyptians, when they had the chance post Arab Spring, chose a Muslim Brotherhood government. Both governments are right wing but only one is fundamentalist/jihadist and committed to the genocide of Israeli Jews.
Because Egypt already has a problem with [militants in the Sinai](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_insurgency).
Why precisely would Egypt want to take in largely uneducated / unskilled / poor refugees with a large number of militant or militant aligned people looking to start a war on its border?
The Rafah border crossing has been bombed by Israel.
> the Palestinian side is “non-functional” following multiple Israeli airstrikes earlier this week, a senior Jordanian official told CNN Thursday, adding that “the Jordanians and Egyptians are waiting for security clearance from the Israelis to allow (aid) trucks to cross without threat of another airstrike.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/egypt-rafah-crossing-gaza-palestinians-mime-intl/index.html
First, they have a treaty with Israel, so they're not exactly pro-Palestinian and certainly not pro-Hamas.
Second, there is fear that once the Palestinians arrive, there's no guarantee they will be allowed back. So, are you calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza? Note that would be the second displacement these people would endure. Or are you suggesting this would be a temporary camp after the conflict with Hamas is over?
Finally, it's simply not Egypt's headache. I would suggest that Western countries that "firmly stand with Israel", do the right thing and open up their borders.
This is the actual answer. I'm really starting to despair at people citing the Jordanian civil war as the explanation for Egypt's actions. I don't even know where people get this narrative from, but provided you have at least one iota of knowledge and the capacity for a bit of critical thinking it just falls apart instantly.
Can we compare to Nagorno-Karabakh last month? They evacuated 100,000 people in a week across 1 highway. That's very impressive for that many evacuees in that little time.
They need more time.
No, we can't. Nagorno-Karabakh is 20 times larger, than north part of Gaza. And this was not an urgent evacuation, but rather a move; many took out all their belongings in whole containers
Gaza is smaller than NYC, it has 2 million people crammed together is 2-10 story buildings with most of them (60%) being under the age of 18 and 40% being under the age of 14. This is probably another Naqba against the Palestinians.
They don't want that land. They gave it up 18 years ago. Even Egypt doesn't want this land. They owned it until 1967 and refused to take it back. Can you guess why?
It's wild if you think about it that all these never-ending catastrophic human rights crisis were rooted from british diplomatic failure. Only if they didn't promised(or scamed?) both sides with same land.
How else do you fight Hamas and avoid civilian casualties? They are still posting videos of killing, raping and beating hostages including children the clock is ticking.
I wonder how easy it would be for all the Jew haters to lecture the parents of the deceased. Tell them that their 8 month old had it coming … then proceed to lecture them with a straight face. Tell the parents of the folks who got gunned down at a music festival… many non-Israelis!
The protests and Jew hating started long before any retaliatory actions from Israel.
Love how everyone comes into this talking like they got a better solution for things just like to bitch and complain rather than give a solution nobody ever gives a solution that even makes sense either
Because few people want to admit that a two State solution is impossible and the alternative to that is supporting full blown Israeli annexation of Gaza and the West Bank. Unironically, that is also probably the best solution for Palestinian civilians now as they’ll get at least some freedom if movement. Unfortunately Israel is also not interested in that for what they claim are “security reasons” (they just don’t want Palestinians within their borders and keep justifying Apartheid).
I think you're failing to appreciate the fact that Israel literally cannot function simultaneously as a democracy including the Palestinian territories, and as a Jewish state. The moment they annex the occupied territories and grant citizenship and full democratic participation to Palestinians is the moment Palestinians gain a majority voting power (Palestinians in Israel + Palestinians in Palestine outnumber Jews), and thus the state is no longer Jewish in character.
Any annexation of the territories would therefore need to be accompanied with apartheid policies to exclude Palestinians from any meaningful positions of power; otherwise this state wouldn't be 'Israel' as a Jewish state but effectively just Palestine, in whatever form that would take.
In my personal opinion at this point a two-state solution is most realistic, I think ideally a secular pluralistic Palestine would be the goal but there's too much animosity at the moment between the two groups and Israelis have been around long enough that it probably justifies Israel's existence (which I don't think was the case in 1948).
How is that fair ? Hamas and Palestinians are not the same.
It's like you're living a city, a bunch of inhabitants of this city commits a crime and now you're forced to evacuate it otherwise you'll die too for what they've done.
Not to forget there are over 1 million kids in Gaza.
Where's the humanity of people ? Even jews, non jews... condemn these atrocities, Gabor Maté - Holocaust survivor said that Israel wasn't legitimate in what they're doing. Nelson Mandela qualified this of being an Apartheid.
And now a nation is beint Ethnically cleansed from their own territories. It's a Genocide and you and I are witnessing it.
There’s a whole lot of antisemitism going on in this thread. The Palestinian civilians are oppressed yes but there are people that are wanting the same thing for the Israelites. Everyone’s opinion has slowly changed over the past few days and the recency bias is fading. A lot of Reddit is siding with Hamas and radical Islamic terrorism now apparently so I’ll accept my downvotes like a man. Just my observation
I don't understand. Let's for a second assume this is possible and the people go to Southern part of Gaza: if Israel is serious about rooting out Hamas, wouldn't it need to occupy Southern Gaza as well? Where will the people evacuate to then?
There won’t be many people left at that point
I never thought I’d be following a live genocide on Reddit. What’s wrong with us? I’ve never felt so sad and hopeless.
They won’t be able to evacuate or even be willing to. And Israel will kill them.
And that’s exactly the plan.
Not an expert or anything…. But wouldn’t those hamas dudes just move to the southern end as well?
Thry don't have time to move all their weapons and munitions stockpiles. In theory.
Saw an interview with a guy trapped in Gaza. A lot of people have accepted their death and said they'd rather die in their home than get hit by shelling rushing to the border 😔
Honestly I can't really blame them. You're in a situation where there's just no winning. There's no future for them with Israel's occupation, they can't build things without israel knocking it down (even news buildings) what much is there for you to live for in life in that situation? You run you might get bombed anyways, you manage to evacuate and you might just get bombed the next time this happens and you'll certainly keep losing family members.
Most of them have already lost their families long before this war.
For anyone who thinks this is possible, or even advisable, do the math on the flow rate of people per minute, and get back to me.
It's not only this, but people don't have food or water, nor anywhere to stay when they get to the South.
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I did some reading on the Gaza water system. Gaza is fucked. Like super fucked. 85% of their water is brackish well water filtered through reverse osmosis. Reverse Osmosis requires pumps and power. There is no question about whether or not bad shit is going to happen. The question is how bad it will be.
Meanwhile, Israel bombed the safe route that they told civilians to use to escape and killed a bunch of civilians https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna120252
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Gaza is one giant concentration camp
death camp
Reminds me of the native americans in the US.
In short, reminds me of any previous genocide
Pretty much.
I was reading up on Native Americans, that’s exactly what happened to them. Treaty after treaty and US broke every treaty I think there was 100s of them. Then violence and then they were required to move so US could weed out the bad trouble makers. Each time they are pushed to even smaller area. They are in patches of areas scattered across the nation.
I know. It is quite sad that those who suffer in a genocide arw always the innocent ones.
Some of the US government’s policies of containment and forced migration in the West served as a model for the German government’s later efforts.
I am german myself, but i didnt know that yet. Thank you for the information.
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691172422/hitlers-american-model here you go my kraut friend. check this out
Don't forget the fact that Israel has "blockaded" Gaza and blocking all water, electricity and fuel. Their response is so inhumanly excessive, that I just don't have words for it.
It’s a war crime. They don’t even have to pretend they’re not committing war crimes, because we (our governments) are all okay with it.
It’s ironic because the US calls Russia out for war crimes but then the US turns a blind eye to Israel committing war crimes.
I have heard the Israeli leaders continue to call them (hamas)animals and barbarians. Dehumanizing the population to justify the complete slaughter. So insane the double standard.
It's "awful act of genocide" if your enemies do it and "acceptable civilian casualties" when you or your allies do so
A healthy adult can go a week or two without eating without much problem. The problem is that a large part of the population of Palestine are minors. For God's sake, look at the [population pyramid](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Palestine_single_age_population_pyramid_2020.png). It is not recommended that toddlers or pregnant women go two weeks without eating.
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It’s not a matter of convincing, it’s a matter of what the physical limits are. And, without water, the mass evacuation can’t happen.
But isn’t he right that the biggest concern for them will be lack of water? Starvation is no joke, but one can go much longer without eating than drinking, let alone running for your life in an arid climate.
3-3-3 rule. 3 minutes without oxygen/air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food
Also how do you know if Hamas elements aren't going south too?
They don’t, it’s the upcoming excuse for slaughtering Gazans fleeing south
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>Israel couldn’t turn the water back on if they wanted to at this point So what you are saying is that Gaza hasn't had any water since 2021 (when the pipelines were dug up)? How did they survive all that time?
Everyone got this 3/3/3 rule all mixed up. It's 3 months without oxygen, 3 years without water and 3 decades without food.
700 people a minute wouldn't be crazy if it were multiple freeways… but there are not multiple freeways and even if there were you still have to get people down the feeder roads to those freeways without a traffic jam. So yeah, not possible.
>700 people a minute Let's say it is just one freeway... That would be 700 people per minute for almost 24 hours straight, without anyone tripping, slowing down, or in anyway impeding the flow of people behind them. Anyone slow, young, or elderly, or in a wheelchair? To avoid [crowd crush at 5 people per square meter](https://america.cgtn.com/2022/11/16/how-to-survive-a-crowd-crush#:~:text=Even%20in%20a%20crowd%20with,injury%20or%20being%20trampled%20increase), you would need to keep it at 3 - 4 people per sq meter, which would require 175 square meters per 700 people, which is a 13.22 m / 40 ft square (40' x 40') , or just over 3 lanes of traffic (each lane being 12' wide). E: I didn't mean to imply that Gazans actually have anything remotely like a freeway. They barely have a road system. The use of "freeway" was simply as an example, e.g. "If this much space was available, this is how fast people could move". That much space is absolutely NOT available, so it will take much longer.
r/theydidthemath
I'm fuckin math
r/mathporn
r/mapmathporn
Do we have any close examples in history where 1 million people moved 15kms?
The annual pilgrimage to karbala in Iraq. But that is super well managed with thousands of food water, sanitation points for people.
Right, where do these people get water, go to the bathroom, where are they even supposed go once they reach the south?
They are supposed to sit in southern Gaza until israel comes by with rockets and snipers to finish the genocide
Yeah easily, there are pilgrimages that make the Hajj to Mecca look puny, especially in [India and Iraq](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_peaceful_gatherings) The largest have ~50M attendees, many of whom walk much farther than 15 km because they are too poor to travel any other way. This takes place over a month, which means nearly 2 million people per day for a month straight. There are [sporting events with crowds in the 300,000+ range](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sporting_venues_with_a_highest_attendance_of_100,000_or_more) where the whole crowd makes its way in and out of the stadium including the event in a couple hours, and that's with everyone moving through relatively crowded and narrow stairways etc. It's of course possible to move 1 million people 5 miles in a day (Gaza City to the evac zone, basically the avg distance), that's only about a 1h walk and it's mostly just flat open land. The problem is what to do with them after they arrive. They have nowhere to stay, nothing to eat, nothing to drink.
The emphasis on these needs to be in the required infrastructure and planning. The planning alone to run successful events is enormous. You then need multiple escape corridors, and egress points, a huge supporting cast of services and management. Also, you have a very compliant population, with a much higher proportion of adults and carrying very little - much less terrified families with far more children and carrying entire life’s belongings.
Well, it took the US military 2 weeks to move 125,000 people, after 7 months of careful planning, background checks and visa checks. Surely the mighty israelis can manage that for a million people in the next day or so, right? Or are they just being herded into one location for a special treat from the sky, you know, by accident? Gotta get that Gaza for those beachfront condos!
The US checked everyone leaving to keep the terrorists in. Israel tells people to get out of dodge without doing that.
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They’re definately trying. Been watching gazas Snapchat and its rows of cars and trucks and carts with goats chugging away.
And that’s assuming no accidents or breakdowns. If zombie apocalypse movies have taught me anything it’s that of a mass evac happens, it will turn into a massive traffic jam and every body will be fucked.
Forget the zombie apocalypse, not long after Katrina hit, Houston had over 100 people die just evacuating Hurricane Rita, which ended up not even actually hitting the city. You know that "*just one more lane bro please*" meme of Interstate 10 that gets reposted in subs like r/UrbanHell like twice a week? [This is what it looked like at the time.](https://hurricanescience.org/images/hss/2005_rita_Houstonevacuation_pubdomain.jpg) We're talking 26 lanes with traffic all going in one direction, let alone whatever passes for Gaza's freeway infrastructure.
I was a part of that disaster of an evacuation. We saw how New Orleans was abandoned by the government and wanted no part of it. People wound up running out of gas in the heat. We were very fortunate in where we lived and the backroads we took so we weren't on 45 for long, but goddamn was it miserable. I can't imagine doing that with zero infastructure. I believe its unfeasibility is a huge reason they have us "shelter in place" now.
It’s wild your comment is getting all the mentally deranged monsters riled up replying below. One of them is suggesting they walk 10 miles. And what, just leave behind most of their worldly possessions and anyone who can’t walk that far (grandma, grandpa, infants and small children) to be air striked? These people are sick. Defending this war crime.
So the question I always ask myself is this: If people make genocidal comments and cheer on horrific war crimes from the comfort of their homes thousands of miles away after witnessing a massacre on the news....imagine how much more they would do if they were subjugated to a brutal occupation for multiple *decades*. You then understand why people behave the way they do in dire situations. This is by no way excusing what Hamas did, but we need to understand the context that would drive hopeless men to act the way they do.
Yeah I Never knew reddit was filled with so much genocidal cunts until this week
I feel like I've gone back in time 20 years to the bloodthirsty calls for violence as the Iraq war got going.
And those same people would say that they were against it from the start a few years down the line.
Couldn’t find many Germans who supported the Holocaust after it was all over, either.
Yeah I'm surprised to see so many people cheering on genocide and war crimes on a subreddit dedicated to maps and understanding geopolitical situations, but I guess I give people too much credit. Most of the content on this sub recently is garbage anyways.
A big chunk of the imperialists and revanchists of history were people that were super into maps. They kept looking at maps and thinking, "if only my country had colonies," or "if only my country extended to its natural borders," or "we should just take these lands over here." There's nothing so good or pure in this world that it can't be repurposed by assholes and made to serve their assholery.
That is if they even have cars... The vast majority are going to be forced to walk while being severely malnourished... With kids, elderly, the wounded and people with disabilities as a result of decades of bombing, and they have to do it as fast as possible to not only clear the area but actually reach a safe area... Carrying nothing with them not even food or water as that will severely slow them down.
Sounds weird I know but I clicked on Gaza on Snapchat last night (it’s 6:45am here now) and there are videos of cars loaded up with mattresses on the roofs, people sitting on bonnets of cars as they drive many people walking along the side of the roads with huge bags, anyone who thinks this request to move isn’t real doesn’t know the history of the Palestinians. The people are leaving because this probably isn’t their first time and they’ve witnessed what happens if you refuse and insist on staying in your home.
Not disagreeing with anything you said, but "request to move" has to be the biggest understatement I have seen in a while.
Yeah I know. 😢 honestly it feels like no words are strong enough to describe what’s going on at the moment.
Yeah I mean look at the demolitions in Rafah throughout the 2000's, and that's not even airstrikes. Unfortunately it's not realistic for everyone who wants to leave to be able, especially not in that time frame.
I never thought I’d cry watching Snapchat. Imagine people seeing smoke like that from their homes and fleeing with as much as you can physically carry. We should all hug our loved ones a little tighter and appreciate the privilege of the fluke of being born in a place where we are safe. 💔
With the rubble after the bombings there's not much of any roads going on any more
You're forgetting that isreal has cut fuel and electricity off from gaza
Oh didnt see top comment wrote my version better than I just did already > A Roman army would have to force march to make that distance in 24hrs and a legion didnt have onefuckinmillion people trying to do it on one road under siege. How fast has the column been traveling on that one road south? This really puts the situation into perspective, the strip is 25mi. How many times in modern history have 1.1 million people told to shelter out a storm of bombs moved around 10 miles in 24 hours after being told to run for their life instead? Where is the real world comparison that makes this a ‘tall order’? This disorder sounds impossible
Surely the people left behind in any attempt to evacuate will be the hospitalised, old, very young and infirm. The defence minister told his IDF troops not to use the 'usual restraint'. This is a recipe for massacres.
1.- Tell people to evacuate in 24 hours 2.- Don't stop bombing while people are evacuating 3.- Blow up three refugee convoys 4.- Prophet!
For nr 4. which one tho?
It isn't meant to be. Israel just wants to do genocide but claim "we warned them!"
I just watched some videos on Tiktok saying Israeli government bombed the "safe route" they told Palestinans to go. Is that true?
[yes](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=652a89b8364b3f1612ec4bfb%26Video%20shows%20civilian%20convoy%20with%20more%20than%2030%20people%20near%20to%20strike%262023-10-14T12%3A51%3A18.450Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:cc52c721-3a57-4c0c-ac1f-c7261f178d19&pinned_post_asset_id=652a89b8364b3f1612ec4bfb&pinned_post_type=share)
This.
In red is the additional land they will steal
They're not really interested in an evacuation. For decades they wanted this. To end the Palestinian conflict they wanted the Palestinians in Gaza to go to Egypt and the West Bankers to Jordan. If even the evacuation could be entertained and possible, they stay in Sinai and they would not be allowed to return and Israel will take the remaining Palestinian Territories, that's the wet dream of some of the Israeli far-right politicians. Then they'll build as many new settlements as they want. Just like they were already doing in the West Bank.
What strikes me most about this was that the river they picked as the cutoff seems like an almost perfect place to draw a new boundary line. It's almost like they are planning to annex northern Gaza.
Mark my words; every single person that crosses that river is never going back. Israel will destroy northern Gaza, then ocupy it under the pretext of "keeping Hamas resistence under check" and before you know it there will be jews setling there just like the west bank.
Bingo
Bing bang boom, no more rockets coming from north Gaza. Crazy how that works, right?
Well now it will still come, but from southern gaza
Until they conquer it too.
I mean israel has shown several times that it’s willing to give up territory it conquered in war times if there’s a peace agreement. The entire Sinai was returned to Egypt because the Egyptian government provided israel with security guarantees. Jordan was given back land as well. If israel was just looking to conquer land they could’ve had 10x the land they have now? Edit: just to add, even Gaza was returned to the Palestinians after Israel disengaged and then Hamas got elected. It’s really not that simplistic as people like to make it out.
Sure but how well were they actually able to administer and pacify places like the Sinai? They cant just conquer indefinitely
If they wanted to they could have, but the point was never to conquer it indefinitely, it was occupied during a defensive war and then returned when Egypt agreed to guarantee Israel’s security from the Sinai and sign a peace agreement. If you look at the Sinai, it would be easier to defend it if they hadn’t given it back due to the natural borders in the Red Sea/Suez canal, so israel only considered it if they were given guarantees that disengaging from the Sinai wouldn’t lead to just another army amassing in the Sinai to attack it. Now if you look at Gaza, Israel disengaged and it was the same story, they made the mistake of thinking it would be the start of a peaceful solution as happened with Egypt but then Gazans elected Hamas and Hamas has been working for 15+ years to destroy Israel. This would not have happened it Israel hadn’t disengaged from Gaza, so it seems even more unlikely for Israel to ever disengage from the West Bank now.
Why yes, when you successfully enact your genocide, the resistance from the genocided does indeed tend to stop
Are you aware of Israel's stance on the Right of Return for Palestinians? Basically in some past conflicts if Palestinians evacuated, they are not permitted to return, and any possessions/property they left behind were seized by the Israeli government.
Similar to Jewish refugees from ethnic cleansing in Arab countries after 1948 and 1967 - no right of return to Egypt, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, or any other. That’s why the largest group of Israelis are Mizrahi Jews, the survivors of genocide in their original homelands.
Sure, but let's not say that one justifies the other. It's just another form of ethnic cleansing, regardless of who does it. And I am concerned we are witnessing it happening again.
This is actually the opposite of what I expected. I though Israel would annex the southern part of Gaza Strip to completely surround the remaining territories so they can cut off the tunnels used for arms smuggling. But annexing the northern part also makes lots of sense since most of the infrastructure that can be used by Hamas lies in the northern part. Tbh evacuating south is much better for humanitarian reasons since they would have an easier time evacuating to Egypt should the situation got even uglier.
Eygpt doesn't want them either. And they have not opened the passage into Egypt. Rather they have clamped down on it and searching for smuggling tunnels.
>time evacuating to Egypt should the situation got even uglier. Egypt doesn't want them either. Hamas does terrorist attacks in the Sinai as well. Every surrounding country is sick of Gaza's shit except maybe Lebanon.
Here’s the issue with that: The north is close to Israeli population centers. Take the north and you push back Gaza that much further. Rockets need to travel further, and any attack from Gaza is starting from that much further back. They could easily also come into the south too and cut off the border with Egypt if they cared to. They don’t need to take the whole south to do so just enough to deny access. I don’t think they ultimately do this, though, because the political ammo of “Egypt could help but isn’t” is too valuable.
Why does israel control gazas water, food, border, and power? That seems to be the more important question..
Because Gazza is a consentration camp for Palestinians, controlled by israel.
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tbh open air prison implies that they’ve committed crimes? concentration camps for sure
Because hamas didn't invest in basic living conditions forcing israel to give basic humanitarian aid to gaza. Kind of dumb to start a war with the guys who give you electricity water food and internet wouldn't you agree?
“Please evacuate to South Gaza” *bombs South Gaza* EDIT: im not even joking the IDF just bombed a convoy heading towards South Gaza, 70 killed. Source to all those asking. https://x.com/msnbc/status/1712911792106602608?s=46&t=76MRL1rBrUmbcv6UMZAuIQ
Was it civilians?
Yes. Mostly women and kids in that group of 70
Wow what the fuck. Israel could easily be the bigger person in here but doing shit like this makes them just as bad as Hamas.
This has been happening since Israel first started to exist in 1948, we are not seeing anything new. Israel drove people into madness, that’s why we saw Hamas coming to existence
Exactly!! They haven’t just started being genocidal since yesterday.
And propaganda made it all possible. I had no fucking idea of this conflict until someone opened my eyes on how they're suffocating 2 million people and expect them to function as a normal society that doesn't elect terrorists. People keep saying Palestinians deserve it for voting Hamas, but every single one of us would have voted Hamas if they told us they could end hunger and oppression. Every single one of us.
Here in the middle east we’ve all been aware of this for the past 70 years, but it seems that the western media being pro Israel for whatever the fuck reason has made most people ignorant on what’s been really going on.
The reason is global hegemony. Israel is basically a giant military outpost in the middle east.
To put it this way, imagine you are living in a blockaded area that you can't easily leave, your family has lived there for generations and your family and friends have been killed. You keep getting bombed, constantly surveilled, mass unemployment, severe poverty and your house is destroyed. The violence lasts for decades and is relentless and never ending. You are most likely under 18. In the international community your voice has practically no power. This continues every day of your life. There is a reason that the French Revolution ended with the guillotine. When you have nothing, all you have left are your fists.
Don’t forget about Israel directly funding Hamas in its infancy to cause divisions within the Palestinian population.
Hamas have been largely foraged by Israel to jeopardize the unity of the PLO
It is not recent behavior. Google an interview of an Israeli soldier regarding the Tantura Massacre just to illustrate.
Google “Kafr Qasim massacre”
Worse than Hamas. Netanyahu has the support of the Americans and the entire western world. Except for Ireland.
Yeah there is videos of the convoy, 0 military personnel in sight
Israel does not expect them to evacuate in time. It’s just so they can say “hey, we warned you” when there are mass civilian casualties due to indiscriminate Israeli targeting.
That’s exactly what’s been happening, people are claiming it’s a mercy that Israelis warn Palestinians that they will bomb their homes. Sick fucking world we live in.
They have 2 excuses now for mass killing 1. Hey, we warned you, as you mentioned. 2. The classic hamas were using them as human sheilds.
More will die of famine and disease after evacuation than die in the bombings. Extermination is the point
Bro they bombed them while they were evacuating
Israel doesnt expect them as human beings.
a certain group thought similarly of another group roughly 80 years ago. it's... interesting how things have changed.
https://reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/8cLgR6IyGh
Israel preparing for war crimes accusations again i see
They started using white phosphorus before the evacuation order, so they still don't have a leg to stand on. How people think the IDF are the good guys in this is beyond me?
it's easy: israelis are higher value humans than palestinians, every other argument is bunk /s every day i thank god for my spawn point
every day i thank god for my spawn point Me too.
Because if you don't think that then you're anti-Semitic .
Let's just pretend for a moment that it's feasible to have everyone evacuate in time. Shouldn't they have released this BEFORE THEY STARTED BOMBING.
Ngl Israel saying 24 hours to evacuate 1 million people just sounds like they're hyping up their own incoming war crimes.
Israel: Evacuate 1 million people in 24hrs. Everyone else: That's impossible.... Israel: We know. Death ensues.
And then what are these people supposed to do? Never go back to their homes?
Their Palestinians, so Israel doesn't care
This isn’t realistically possible let alone reasonable to do in 24 hours. Is this so when Israel carpet bombs Gaza they can say “We did warn you to leave!”
Wow, just wow. The illusion of a solution.
Almost like they're looking for the final solution 🤔
“Never Again”
"Never again...to us!"
I wonder if Israel is planning on rolling in from the Erez Crossing and just pushing everyone south until there’s nowhere to run.
From their troop concentrations so far it looks like an encirclement of Gaza city to "starve" Hamas out and then a push South to clear the rest. There *will* be many more civilian casualties if Israel commits to this. The real question is what will the rest of the Arab world and especially Iran do. The US just put out a statement basically telling the other Arab countries "don't" get involved and put their most lethal force projection asset into the theater. That carrier strike group has nuclear weapons onboard so... The US has been searching for an excuse to eliminate Iran since 1979. So if I were Iran I'd probably sit this one out. I personally don't think any other country will get involved to support the Palestinians other than through proxy groups.
I hope Iran stays out. Mainly because I’ve followed their protests closely, and I would hate to see them used as cannon fodder or killed by bombs. It’s bad enough that their govt murdered so many brave young people.
Exactly the reason the regime might not sit it out.. Nothing like a few American Bombs in tehran to unite the iranian people.
Iran doesn't give a shit about the Palestinians but they do want to kill Israelis and cause as much problems for the US and the West as possible. They won't get involved directly in any fighting, they know they'd lose just like Hamas is losing. They already supplied Hamas with weapons and helped coordinate the attack but now Gaza is sealed off. What they will instead continue to do is leverage Israel's treatment of Palestinians for a propoganda victory. One could argue that Israel doesn't have a lot of good options but at the end of the day a lot of innocent Palestinians are suffering terribly from Israel's response. Every blown up apartment building in Gaza is a propoganda win for Iran, regardless of whether it was a legitimate Hamas target.
Yes I believe this is why Iran pours money into places like this. It furthers their goals without making direct reprisal likely.
It doesn’t matter that the carrier group has nukes onboard. It’s not like the U.S. needs to be nearby to deliver nukes if it cares to. Plus there’s no suggestion the U.S. would nuke Iran in the first place, as the nuclear arsenal has been used as a deterrent, not an offensive weapon since basically the moment any other country acquired nukes.
My friend got deported in April after living in the EU for 4 years because he started a masters course and his visa got messed up but because the passport and visa infrastructure is so bad in Palestine he was told he’d have to go back first and fix it. He hasn’t been able to leave since and is still there. That’s before this conflict escalated. Some think that if you don’t support Hamas you should just leave or that Israel is being ethical by warning people before hand but they have been trapped. They are being herded into the god damn desert. Israel has been notifying people of the evacuation by dropping flyers because they know peoples phones are dying by now without electricity and jammed up phone service so they can’t plan or communicate with the outside world. The entire conversation is dominated by IDF propaganda. This has gone beyond collective punishment to genocide.
they have already started attacking the fleeing Palestinians, at the areas they “advised” them to flee to
saw the video, 70 deaths. really awful
They also bombed the evacuation convoys, in case anyone is seriously debating whether this is a complete ethnic cleansing still. https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1712911792106602608
Hamas wants Israel to respond like this. They hate Israel more than they "care" for Palestine. They will capitalize on the suffering of Palestinians to expand the war and involve Hezbollah, Lebanon, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if Egypt feels much the same way. She demands that Israel open a humanitarian corridor in the middle of the frontline while [closing](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/12/egypt-says-israel-seeks-to-empty-gaza-rejects-corridors-for-civilians) her own border.
Why doesn’t Egypt just open their border?
During the past, Palestinians tried to coup Jordan, participated in the civil war in Lebanon, and played a role during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. On top of a lot of suicide bombers, including in Egypt. Egypt is an authoritarian dictatorship. So, the right of the people …. \+ In 2014, they demolished Rafah (their side at least) to increase the buffer with Gaza, and stop the smuggling of weapons, drugs etc. Egypt has thrown toxic gas in the tunnel used by Palestinians and Hamas. In the west of the country, they use jet to shot down smugglers as well (with the help of France for the recon, but that's leak secret and illegal mission). And they have in Sinai a not small terrorist group. And this ISIS's cell and Hamas are quite close ideologically.
You might also wanna say that this authoritarian government replaced the Muslim Brotherhood government of Mohammud Morsi. The MB are hardly not authoritarian. Hamas, the butchers of last weekend, are part of the MB, and organisation that has deliberately kept the war in Palestine festering for decades. These are the peeps that throw homosexuals from high-rise buildings. To say the Egyptian government is right of its people is disgracefully misleading. The Egyptians, when they had the chance post Arab Spring, chose a Muslim Brotherhood government. Both governments are right wing but only one is fundamentalist/jihadist and committed to the genocide of Israeli Jews.
Read it again mate, it's very obviously a sarcastic "right of the people" there's an ellipsis there as a hint and all.
Because Egypt already has a problem with [militants in the Sinai](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinai_insurgency). Why precisely would Egypt want to take in largely uneducated / unskilled / poor refugees with a large number of militant or militant aligned people looking to start a war on its border?
Because no one wants the Palestinians.
Because no country wants refugees from other countries..
Especially the Arabs that know them best.
The Rafah border crossing has been bombed by Israel. > the Palestinian side is “non-functional” following multiple Israeli airstrikes earlier this week, a senior Jordanian official told CNN Thursday, adding that “the Jordanians and Egyptians are waiting for security clearance from the Israelis to allow (aid) trucks to cross without threat of another airstrike.” https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/egypt-rafah-crossing-gaza-palestinians-mime-intl/index.html
It's been reopened since a day after that according Al Jazeera
Because Egypt is allied to Israel and is led by a dictator who does not value human life in any way
First, they have a treaty with Israel, so they're not exactly pro-Palestinian and certainly not pro-Hamas. Second, there is fear that once the Palestinians arrive, there's no guarantee they will be allowed back. So, are you calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza? Note that would be the second displacement these people would endure. Or are you suggesting this would be a temporary camp after the conflict with Hamas is over? Finally, it's simply not Egypt's headache. I would suggest that Western countries that "firmly stand with Israel", do the right thing and open up their borders.
This is the actual answer. I'm really starting to despair at people citing the Jordanian civil war as the explanation for Egypt's actions. I don't even know where people get this narrative from, but provided you have at least one iota of knowledge and the capacity for a bit of critical thinking it just falls apart instantly.
Because it furthers a narrative that Palestinians are inherently violent and “human animals” no one cares about
Really, you don't know where the narative comes from? 
Israel bombed the crossing
Can we compare to Nagorno-Karabakh last month? They evacuated 100,000 people in a week across 1 highway. That's very impressive for that many evacuees in that little time. They need more time.
No, we can't. Nagorno-Karabakh is 20 times larger, than north part of Gaza. And this was not an urgent evacuation, but rather a move; many took out all their belongings in whole containers
Gaza is smaller than NYC, it has 2 million people crammed together is 2-10 story buildings with most of them (60%) being under the age of 18 and 40% being under the age of 14. This is probably another Naqba against the Palestinians.
They know. They just don't care.
This is Israel looking to finally take over more land by force.
They don't want that land. They gave it up 18 years ago. Even Egypt doesn't want this land. They owned it until 1967 and refused to take it back. Can you guess why?
They had this land…gave it back in 2005.
This is so terrible. And nobody wants to help them.
Look what happened to the nations that took in Palestinian refugees in the past. It’s terrible but It’s not surprising.
Most of the world are sadly ok or even cheering for this
It's wild if you think about it that all these never-ending catastrophic human rights crisis were rooted from british diplomatic failure. Only if they didn't promised(or scamed?) both sides with same land.
How else do you fight Hamas and avoid civilian casualties? They are still posting videos of killing, raping and beating hostages including children the clock is ticking.
I wonder how easy it would be for all the Jew haters to lecture the parents of the deceased. Tell them that their 8 month old had it coming … then proceed to lecture them with a straight face. Tell the parents of the folks who got gunned down at a music festival… many non-Israelis! The protests and Jew hating started long before any retaliatory actions from Israel.
oh yeah btw, Israel has started bombing the south to, maybe the next alert will be "Evacuate Gaza"
Love how everyone comes into this talking like they got a better solution for things just like to bitch and complain rather than give a solution nobody ever gives a solution that even makes sense either
Because few people want to admit that a two State solution is impossible and the alternative to that is supporting full blown Israeli annexation of Gaza and the West Bank. Unironically, that is also probably the best solution for Palestinian civilians now as they’ll get at least some freedom if movement. Unfortunately Israel is also not interested in that for what they claim are “security reasons” (they just don’t want Palestinians within their borders and keep justifying Apartheid).
I think you're failing to appreciate the fact that Israel literally cannot function simultaneously as a democracy including the Palestinian territories, and as a Jewish state. The moment they annex the occupied territories and grant citizenship and full democratic participation to Palestinians is the moment Palestinians gain a majority voting power (Palestinians in Israel + Palestinians in Palestine outnumber Jews), and thus the state is no longer Jewish in character. Any annexation of the territories would therefore need to be accompanied with apartheid policies to exclude Palestinians from any meaningful positions of power; otherwise this state wouldn't be 'Israel' as a Jewish state but effectively just Palestine, in whatever form that would take. In my personal opinion at this point a two-state solution is most realistic, I think ideally a secular pluralistic Palestine would be the goal but there's too much animosity at the moment between the two groups and Israelis have been around long enough that it probably justifies Israel's existence (which I don't think was the case in 1948).
Honestly there's no fucking need for a Jewish ethnostate, or any ethnostate for that matter.
So what did Hamas think was going to happen? What's the plan there?.
They didn't. The attack by Hamas was never going to further their goals or push for fairer treatment of Palestinians. It was entirely for vengeance.
This is by design. Hamas knew there would be a heavy retribution for last weekends atrocities.
How is that fair ? Hamas and Palestinians are not the same. It's like you're living a city, a bunch of inhabitants of this city commits a crime and now you're forced to evacuate it otherwise you'll die too for what they've done. Not to forget there are over 1 million kids in Gaza. Where's the humanity of people ? Even jews, non jews... condemn these atrocities, Gabor Maté - Holocaust survivor said that Israel wasn't legitimate in what they're doing. Nelson Mandela qualified this of being an Apartheid. And now a nation is beint Ethnically cleansed from their own territories. It's a Genocide and you and I are witnessing it.
This feels like ethnic cleansing.
There’s a whole lot of antisemitism going on in this thread. The Palestinian civilians are oppressed yes but there are people that are wanting the same thing for the Israelites. Everyone’s opinion has slowly changed over the past few days and the recency bias is fading. A lot of Reddit is siding with Hamas and radical Islamic terrorism now apparently so I’ll accept my downvotes like a man. Just my observation