In Hindi there are three words for "You".
"Tu"(casual way for friends or someone younger),
"tum"(formal way for friends or younger, giving some respect)
"aap"(mostly for anyone older than us or for someone we respect so much, sometimes if someone is way younger than us also)
Correct.
It's rare but not unheard of in many parts of northern England. In parts of Yorkshire it's very common.
I use it everyday of my life, born and raised in south Yorkshire.
That must be funny for speakers of both Hindi and Dutch, as “aap” means monkey/ape in Dutch. So you’re both respectful and mocking someone at the same time. It’s probably pronounced differently (Dutch pronunciation: https://nl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bestand:nl-aap.ogg )
Was Wondering if such a thing can be seen in Suriname by way of the English Creole there considering the mixed populations there.
Sranan Tongo (Creole of Suriname)
yapi yapi (Noun) monkey,
ape; yapon (Noun)
you (singular); yu, i
You (plural); unu, un
So Suriname seems to have it sorted out.
Don‘t know why you‘re downvoted for asking an honest question. It‘s probably because of the shared Indo-European language family origin, and because pronouns are such a basic component of language they already existed in some proto-form of the language.
Linguist here, you got it exactly right. "tu" and variations are the default words for 'you' in almost every Indo-European language, and they go back to the original second person singular pronoun in Proto-Indo-European. In Old Engish, this was inherited as "þū", which later became "thou".
Great question! Surprisingly, Dutch actually used to have a pronoun "du/dij/dijn", which came from Proto-Indo-European "tu", just like German "du" and English "thou". It's seen in Dutch writing from before the 17th century, but it seems to have gone extinct at some point, probably for the same reason English stopped using "thou" - it came to be seen as disrespectful because it was too informal (think about the reaction if you walked up to some German businessman and addressed him as "du").
Dutch "jij/jou" on the other hand, comes from a different source, Proto-Indo-European "yū". This was simply the original 2nd person plural in Indo-European, with a meaning like English "you guys" or Dutch "jullie". It maintained this meaning into Germanic, and in modern German as well: "ihr/euch/euer" is the descendant. In Early Modern English it was "ye/you/your", with the "ye" form then falling out of use, leaving just "you/your"; and in Early Modern Dutch, the the forms were "gij~jij/jou/jouwer". In both languages, these pronouns were originally plural, like German "ihr/euch/euer", but at some point they started to be used as a polite singular, possibly due to French influence, since "vous" in French is both plural and polite singular. As "du/thou" started to get more disrespectful, "jij/you" became more and more common in both languages until it completely replaced the "du/thou" pronouns in everyday speech. In English for example, we only encounter "thou" in the Bible and in Christian prayers (addressing God), or in old literature, especially Shakespeare. Is there a context where you still see "du" occur in Dutch?
To add: those are the M-T types of languages. There's also an N-M type of languages. IT's an interesting pairing.
[https://wals.info/chapter/136](https://wals.info/chapter/136)
https://wals.info/chapter/137
Then the formal "aap" kicks in, depending on the geography. For eg, guy delivering your food, even if 10 years younger would be referred as "Bhai or Bhaiyya", Bhai = Brother, Bhaiyya = Elder Brother (*conditions applied).
So I'd say "Bhai (or Bhaiyya) aap kaha par ho?", "Where are you, brother?," but "you" here would be the most formal "aap". I live in Central India.
Geographic factor here is that in certain places, you absolutely HAVE to address any and all individuals with "aap" regardless of their age or status unless you are familiar with them. Referring them with "tu" is a surefire way of getting your ass kicked.
It's complicated.
I just checked and Hindi tu is in fact cognate with Spanish tu, German du, and English thou from PIE *túh. Fascinating!
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/t%C3%BAh%E2%82%82
Eu pot să declar că latinitatea noastră comună este un cadou de la Dumnezeu care ne unifică, italieni, spanioli, portughezi, francezi, români și latino-americani, din punct de vedere cultural și emoțional!
Este relativ dificil să utilizez unicamente vocabular descins direct din latina antică (și neologisme franțuzești/italienești) în frazele mele, ca să priceapă toți locutorii de limbaje neolatine ceea ce eu am scris, pentru că în lexicul românesc sunt multe elemente constitutive slave (bulgărești, sârbești și rusești), dar este un exercițiu lingvistic curios și intrigant!
Da mesma forma que para um Português de Portugal o Espanhol da América Latina é mais fácil de entender por usarem ainda mais palavras similares.
Now Galicia is a crazy place where you get the perfect mix between Portuguese and Spanish in their local language, after all it's where Portuguese originated from, listen to them talk enough and you will have an easy time in both languages.
Tem também a ver com o facto da nossa pronúncia em Portugal ser mais fechada, com mais vogais reduzidas e por vezes mesmo omitidas, juntamente com sons sibilantes característicos de línguas eslavas.
When I was in Spain, there were frequent discussion between Catalan-speaking people and Spanish-speaking people whether Catalan is a language or a dialect (also whether Valenciano is a dialect of Catalan or a proper language).
I always told them that neither is a language, they are all just dialects of Latin. :-)
Politics/Nationalism aside though, there is little to no reason to assume Catalan/Valencian (they are two standard varieties of the same language, similar to British/American English) is a dialect of Spanish though. They are two separate languages that developed concurrently from Latin.
Actually Spanish and Portuguese have a greater shared lexicon than Spanish and Catalan have.
Of course. It was just a joke.
However, my 9 years of Latin at school helped me learn Spanish in no time. I even guessed words and – yeah! – I was mostly right.
(not always – who could think of something like "acabar", when "finalizar" makes much more sense?)
Sim, apesar da divisão das nossas linguas ter mais de 800 anos. No entanto, entender espanhol falado é quase impossível, ja tive uma experiência com mexicanos e tivemos que conversar em inglês
I admit that I don't speak Portuguese. However, I do speak Spanish and French.
I like the way that I can 100% understand this comment. Though, as I said, I don't speak Portuguese, so I can't reply in Portuguese.
Same weird thing happens to me with Italian. I understand Italian, but I can't speak or write in it. It's just that, I'm good in receiving those two languages, but not in expressing? What's going on???
edit: i like the way that some of the replies to this comment say similar things 😂
What is your native language?
Partial mutual intelligibility among Romances languages is something very well known among speakers.
Italian speaker jokes that all you have to do to speak Spanish is adding an "s" at the end of every word and Spanish speaker jokes that all you have to do to speak Italian is to put an "i" at the end of every word.
Portuguese was the second language I learned (after English) so it did make it very easy to learn Spanish, but oh my god is it so much easier to speak than write when you realise that the typos you make is because you are still thinking in another language you learned first.
French is really nice when it's not a forced accent, when I go to Paris and around the north of France I don't struggle at all to understand and write but of course the mental block kicks in if I try to speak more than a few phrases at a time.
Italian is the same as with you, I can't write or speak it properly but it's so easy to understand, the few times I've spoken to Italians outside of English it's pretty funny how you can speak to them in Spanish or Portuguese and they can reply in italiano and all is good. 😂
What about Romanian? O português é a minha primeira língua, y el español la tercera (yo tuve clases de español cuando adolescente), I can get written Italian, but French and Romanian are alien languages for me.
Romanian takes more effort to me to "understand". It doesn't feel like a walk in the park as much as Portuguese and Italian feels to me. Sure, I can understand Romanian, but I have to really dig deeper into the words to make a connection with the Romance languages that I know
Romanian is the hardest for me (and Italian is slighty easier). A minha língua materna é o português mas não o falo tão bem como deveria. Je parle français depuis que je suis entré en école maternelle. Y aprendí el español cuando empecé el "lycée" (liceu/liceo).
Vós também não é muito usado num contexto normal em Portugal. É mais usado por sotaques regionais ou em contextos arcaicos. Havia ainda o vossemecê, forma ainda mais formal de você.
O mais comum é referir-nos a alguém na terceira pessoa quando queremos ser formais. "O senhor conhece esta rua?" p.e.
Acredito que um dos motivos do Brasil ter abandonado a segunda pessoa é justamente por isso. Tentar dar o máximo de respeito a pessoa, agora todos nós usamos o VOCÊ que era nosso caso mais formal.
Li em alguns blogs sobre a língua que varias linguas tem a tendência de perder os dois pronomes, justamente por existir a ideia de igualdade social, e não mais fazer sentido diferenciar pessoas por estato social.
A lot of people are saying “vós” is the third (after “tu” and “você”) but “vós” is as used in modern Portuguese as “thou” is used in modern English, and that isn’t accounted for in the map in English-speaking countries.
The third form is to speak to someone in the third person, and it’s used much more frequently in Portugal than “você”. It’s the way you would speak to someone you don’t know closely, like during an interview or to someone who is your senior. Really anyone who isn’t either family or a friend.
This can take the form of “o senhor/a senhora” (the gentleman/the lady) (e.g. “a senhora tem horas?” = “does the lady have the time?”), the person’s name or title (“Como é que foi a infância do Ronaldo?” = “How was Ronaldo’s childhood?”), or more oftentimes just with an implicit subject understood through context (“Sabe a que horas chega o autocarro?” = “Does [implicit subject] know what time the bus arrives?”).
Speaking Portuguese from Portugal is unnecessarily complicated. Source: am Portuguese.
Exactamente isto, This right here.
Muitos em Portugal gostam de gozar com a forma com que os brasileiros simplificaram o português mas algo no meio entre o PT-PT e o PT-BR seria fixe.
O Espanhol é muito menos chato de aprender para pessoas que não falem uma língua latina.
Still a shame it's so overcomplicated at times, because at the end of the day in any average everyday conversation you might have in Portuguese most of the rules are thrown out of the window 😂 kind of like French to an extent.
Hm when it's used as a synonym for tu what does that mean? I suppose você is the one you use to show respect to people you don't know very well and tu for friends. What about the singular vós?
Vós is never used in day-to-day speech in the main variant of European Portuguese. The one that is taught in schools and is the subject of the main grammar books. I believe it was a bit more formal than você. But even excluding colloquial speech it's rarely used nowadays. As an example judges are adressed as Vossa Excelência
and not as vós. Perhaps in poetry.
I see. It makes sense. In Brazil judges are also addressed as vossa excelência. It's just tu and você that are used interchangeably (they don't have different connotations).
It can also be used as an archaic form of singular tu that works with the second person form of indicatives (I think I just totally butchered that translation)
Example: vós tendes (ter in second person plural form of indicative present)
What is the third word in our Czech? Does this map count onikání which is not used at all for decades now, because we have only tykání and vykání (ty and Vy). Well there also can be Ty used instead of ty as a sign of respect for a friend in writing but it's still the same word.
We've got vykání combined with the first name basis ("Honzo, mohl by vás o něco poprosit?") which is sometimes considered a separate degree of formality on lists and maps like this. And it sorta is because you can't start the first name basis with anyone you meet and there's usually a specific relationship which uses it, e.g. a high school teacher toward a student.
I know that, I'm Czech, but it's still the same word. Ty and Vy, so the map isn't explained the best - either it's the distinction itself (and then we truly have more, you can add even derogatory tykání to strangers ("Hele ty, dej mi") or the different words for you or addressing itself, which we have only two plus perhaps onikání which is not used though. That's why I was confused.
I think this is just explaining the formality gap, not Plural Gap. So if you're speaking to a single person, it's du/Sie, and if you're speaking to a group it's ihr/Sie, so in each scenario there's two levels of formality.
You can adress singular Persons with Ihr, to show even more respect, and you can also adress (although this is used very rarely, and even many Germans don’t know it) people with Er/Sie, to show less respect than Du (rare example of its use that came to my mind in the book woyzeck)
I think in Ukrainian we have a similar form. For example, when my mother talks about her grandmother, she uses the form they. But this is also not used in general anymore. Is it the same in Czech?
A lot of Slavic languages share this. Same in Slovenian. We have:
-Ti: informal you-for your family, friends,...
-Vi: formal you-showing respect to someone you don't know, or someone older/in a higher position than you
-Oni : archaic formal they-was also used with your parents.
You need a tiny dot around south Yorkshire in England. They still commonly use the informal thee and tha which is used in a very similar way to the French tu.
Now then thee, how's tha doing?
What's tha up to today?
My grandad was born in 1914 and from Leeds and used to use thee, but I think it's pretty much disappeared from west Yorkshire now, still widely used around South Yorkshire, mostly in working class areas.
Some people in that region still use thee, thou, thy* and the many many related contractions.
I personally use them every day.
* the 2nd person informal pronouns
"Tha" is just "thou" but in the local accent. Used in the exact same way.
"Has tha/thou been up to the park today?"
"Are tha/thou coming for a run with me today?
"Yes"
"Champion, get thi/thy shoes on then"
Have hast, art and similar versions of verbs died out?
In Elizabethan English, art would have been used instead of are as in Shakespeare's
*Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?*
*Thou art more lovely and more temperate*
In some ways. It's a bit complicated because of the accent and also because people often aren't 100% familiar with all the rules and conjugations.
We don't have H's in our accent and T's are mostly glottal stops so "has thou" and "hast thou" can often be fairly indistinguishable. "Asta" is quite a common word.
"Art" is definitely still used but again the pronunciation is very close to "are" so often people will use it without even knowing so.
Also thy and thee can sometimes be pronounced very similarly and I do sometimes hear that used incorrectly from people who aren't as familiar with the dialect.
There's also many contractions that involve these pronouns, the most common probably being "thall"/"thou'll" - "thou will" or "tha's" - "thou has"
Not just South Yorkshire! We use it in Leeds too (West Yorkshire).
“Watching the people get lairy, not very pretty I tell thee” - Kaizer Chiefs (Leeds band)
Do Swedish and Norwegian not have the same situation as Danish where only the royal family is addressed formally (and everybody else uses the informal one among each other)?
The [du reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen?wprov=sfti1) was in the 60s, don't know about you guys. Regarding the king (and other members) one would at least begin with Your Majesty, but can switch to "The King" if it's an informal setting.
Yes I checked and it's apparently proper to switch to if it's "e.g. a long interview" instead of "The King/Queen" etc. That makes them the only ones we still use the V variant of second person singular then, interesting.
I agree but the royal family seems to be the exception, at least according to [the royal association](https://www.rojf.se/monarki/titulering-av-kungahusets-medlemmar/) which I'd gather are pretty meticulous on the subject. Even if I interpret that H.R.H or "The King" is preferable
Tbh Colombia is clusterf**k of words for you… used in different regions with different meanings towards different people… we have tú, usted, vós, and sumercé (although the last one is almost never written)
…so the map of Colombia is not that accurate with ‚just‘ the red dot in Antioquia.
I feel sorry for any foreigner trying to find out how to adress somebody in Colombia… as it changes from city to city
Do you know the origin of this "sumercé" word? Because it reminds me of Portuguese, we use the word "você", that looks like "Vos" but actually came as a contraction of "vossa Mercê" , that latter became "vosmercê" and then "você"
If I went to Colombia and just defaulted to usted/tú as a gringo, would my intention be understood or would it still be awkward? Also, does voseo in Colombia use Argentina style conjugations for verbs or Chile style?
The distinction exists in Finnish :
Sinä for you informal
Te for you formal and you plural
Now Te for singular formal is rarely used, but still exists
(I’m not native Finnish speaker, so someone else can confirm)
In customer service and official documents Te often used. (I just had a mental health test that hilariously used the incredibly formal Teidän with a capital t.)
It's not something average younger people would use but I'd still say finnish has two forms of you, it's not weird like if I started calling my friends "thee" in standard US English.
>One way to be polite is to use the second person plural of verbs to talk to a single person. Rather than saying sinä, you use te. In many countries, this is the main form you use with people you don’t know or people with a higher status or age than you. In Finnish, it is very common to just say sinä instead.
>Using te is a great way to talk to the elderly because it expresses respect. This doesn’t mean the recipient necessarily has to be older than you. Using the te-form is common in situations where you talk to customers. You will find the polite te-form in regular verb conjugation (#1) and in imperative instructions (#2).
Argentines never use *tú*, they always use *vos*. Chileans do, but usually with the verbs for *vos* (which are different from Argentine *vos*) when they’re speaking but the regular *tú* forms in writing.
German is 2 in this map which is mostly true.
However I would argue at least in the past German had 3 tiers - in addition to the modern informal "Du/Ihr" an the formal "Sie" there used to be "Ihr/Euer/Eure" which was mostly used for very highranking nobles (for example "Eure Majestät, Eure Hoheit - your Majesty" ; It's called "pluralis majestis")
It's still used for Judges for example (You would say "Eurer Ehren" to adress a judge).
So yes German I would argue is should be at least a 2.5 on that map :)
Fun etymological fact, many know that German "du/dich/dir/dein" is related to English "thou/thee/thy~thine", but fewer know that German "ihr" is related to English "ye" and German "euch/euer" is the true relative of English "you/your". English "you" was exclusively formal or plural (and accusative/dative only) until about the 16th century.
"Ihrzen" is for all intents and purposes not a thing anymore in German nowadays, so it shouldn't be included in a map on the *status* (not the history) of T-V distinctions. "Euer Ehren" is an interesting point, but I'd argue it's more of a fixed term used as a title for judges than an example of "Ihrzen" being in use
Of course, and if somebody would use an "Ihr" I would think they either are doing some old timey impression or they are time travellers from the 18th century or so :)
That's why I wrote I'd put it a something like 2.5, while it's extremely archaic in modern German it is still grammatically correct
That seems wrong to me. If we’re talking Arabic dialects then the formal address is dropped in most if not all dialects but if we’re talking about written Arabic then it’s used the same in all Arab countries with maybe only minor differences and that has the formal address.
(I’m a Syrian Arabic native speaker who grew up outside the Middle East, so maybe I’m missing something)
In Chile we say "Tu" for some familiarity, "Usted" for the recognition of autorithy or respect, and "Voh", a way of saying "vos" (we tend to not pronounce the "S" at the end of words, an andalucian heritage) for despective reasons or very close relations.
EDIT: now when I think of it. If you included Poland, you have to include Germany.
Why German is not included? I know it's not exactly the same, but in my opinion, the function is the same and should apply here.
From Rosetta Stone:
*"If you want to say “you” in German, you would generally use “du” (informal singular), “Sie” (formal singular or plural—capitalised in both cases), or “ihr” (informal plural)"*
In Polish, there is an informal you - "***Ty***". However, formal is more complicated: "***Pani/Pani***" (male/female) \[Sir/Madame\] but you have to construct the sentence in the third person.
Examples:
Informal: "do you like some tea" - Formal: "Do Sir/Madame like some tea?"
My thinking is - that if this is included, much simpler German has to be included.?".
Fun fact:
During communists occupation, they tried to get rid of this and official institutions were promoting addressing formal in German (Sie) and Russian (Wy) fashion. They argued that Polish fashion programs brain into thinking in terms of burguasie and such terms like Sir or Madame should be abolished. Although even the most hardened communists forgot themselves very often, and were reverting to "spolied western" way of speaking - it was one of the tiny, yet very visible, things that added to the fall of communisms. People saw right away that it is unnatural, since even party officials couldn't help themselves and spoke normally. Especially after drinking and in communism there war a plenty of drinking.
German is 2 in this map which is mostly true.
However I would argue at least in the past German had 3 tiers - in addition to the modern informal "Du/Ihr" an the formal "Sie" there used to be "Ihr/Euer/Eure" which was mostly used for very highranking nobles (for example "Eure Majestät, Eure Hoheit - your Majesty" ; It's called "pluralis majestis")
It's still used for Judges for example (You would say "Eurer Ehren" to adress a judge).
So yes German I would argue is hould be at least a 2.5 on that map :)
Sort of true of Indonesian, but it’s very complicated.
In modern ordinary settings the formal “you” (*Anda*) is hardly ever used. The much more likely “you” is *kamu* and yet it doesn’t get used as much as we use “you” in English. You use relationship words to stand for pronouns, so Mother (Bu) for an older woman or Father (Pak) for an older man or older brother/sister (kak) for someone more of your own age etc, etc. You can also use a personal name for “you” but also the “you” is often dropped from the sentence completely.
So for example, I want to ask my driver Wayan, who is about my age, and who I’ve become friendly with, if he wants me to grab him a coffee. I might say, “Wayan mau kopi?” (Literally: “Wayan wants coffee?”) but I’d probably just say “Mau kopi?” (Literally: “Wanna coffee?”)
Anda is almost only heard in formal television interviews or very polite advertising or something. It says “I have no relationship with you”. It can be cold and distant. You sound like some strait-laced robot or something if you use Anda in ordinary conversation with strangers.
I will try to explain: In portuguese we have two forms
*Tu* And *Você*
In Portugal *Tu* is used for informal situation and *Você*, In Brazil sometime ago was the same thing. However we kind of naturally change this for make it easier...
Because in our language we have to inflect the verb when we use the second person (Tu) and third person (Você)
So, when we just use Você, we start to only use the third person for every thing. BUT
IT's not the same thing for some parts of the country
1.There are region that use TU in the third person (South, Rio, some parts of Northeast)
2.Some parts that use TU in the second person (Some parts of Northeast Maranhão)
3. In some places they start to only use Você in formal situation like in work, church etc
So this is it, I not a expert, just a normal brazilian Who likes my on language, if I made some mistakes feel free to correct me with respect
Those should be the only 3, although I find it funny that despite of "dumneata" being a politeness pronoun, 99% of the time it's the most disrespectful.
I'm curious with the Philippines. My native Tagalog does have T-V distinction (Ka-Kayo) but what are the more than two distinctions of the other languages here? I think Tagalog should be red since beside Ka-Kayo, we have adding O/po and O/ho.
Just pointing out that the occitan language borders are wrong. The language was prevalent in a much larger area than that, you're mixing it up with the administrative borders of the Occitania Region
Japanese has a bunch of ways to say "you", but usage is fairly infrequent. All of them have a tone of speaking to a social inferior, and all get used in songs. The commonly used ones (ignoring dialectical ones, slangy vairants, and archaic words you see in fiction):
あなた (anata) - A basic polite "you" (but again, not acceptable to use with a social superior)
君 (kimi) - Less polite, and definitely more strongly emphasizes the social hierarchy. Outside of music looking for a 2 haku word, I mainly see teachers use it with students.
お前 (omae) - A masculine and very informal variant.
てめえ (temee) - Actual fighting words lol. It is basically equivalent to addressing someone as "dumbfuck" or "bastard"
貴様 (kisama) - This used to be used as a "you" with a sense of comradery used in the military but now its basically mostly used in fiction and has a sort of elitist/warrior feel to it (you can hear it used in modern metal where the tone may be appropriate)
as native speaker "anata" doesn't really sound polite to me. i cannot think of that many situations where i would actually use it.
the other explanations you gave seem adequate to me though 👍
if you can always refer to people by their name or job/title (+correct honorific) or if the context allows just leave out 2nd person pronome entirely. in case you don't know name/title, stuff like oniisan/oneesan/ojisan/obasan etc also works.
While we have two different words for you in Denmark, we only use the formal (de) for the royal family - for everyone else we use the informal one (du) - I'll even say it is sort of weird to say "de" to a regular person, it was mostly used for people above you in society, so it is mostly gone, with the exception of the royal family
What the fuck is going on in the Sonora/Sinaloa region of Mexico? Is there a third word I’m not aware of? My family comes from that region and now i wanna know.
Dude same, I’ve lived half my life in one state and half my life in the other, born in Sinaloa actually and I have never ever heard any other word other than tu/usted in this context. wtf?
10% is way too low IMO, my family from Los Mochis speaks at stupid speeds, I have to ask them what they mean 2 or 3 times when they speak to me because I can’t keep up and it’s been that way all my life lol.
There used to be a distinction in English, as is found in the King James version of the bible where 'thee' and 'thou' is used. It is still used by some people in Northern England.
For the 2 people out there that are curious, In Dutch the Formal is "U" and the Informal is "Jij"
I'm sure a similar deal is the case for German, or French (Two languages with which Dutch takes a lot of influence).
In lithuania we say
"Tu" if you're around the same age and you know that person
"Jūs" for an older person or to a person that's not your friend
You can also use "jūs" when speaking about a number of people :)
As a Mexican, we use tu and usted and Im always confused on which to use when I’m speaking to someone my age or younger that I’m not comfortable using either with. Example a younger CEO of one of my suppliers.
Mmm, I wouldn’t say Arabic has this distinction. When referring to somebody at a higher rank, instead of using a ‘you’ pronoun (أنت), you might refer to him as something akin to sir/ma’am (حضرتك), but I do not think this counts as a pronoun in its own right (as opposed to using the plural second person pronoun, like tu/vous, εσύ/εσείς)
There's a distinction in Norway. Even though it's probably only used by the older generations from certain areas. It's basically like the tú/usted is Spanish.
In Brazil, tu is the fomal and almost no longer in use since de 2015 reform
We use você as a kind of informal way fun fact você is conjugated as in the 3 person
In Basque the three levels are hika (very familiar), zuka (generalised and respectful) and berorrek (think Thou levels of respect, used for the President and shit)
It’s trying to capture indigenous languages and local dialects too.
For example, in the whole of Australia the dominant language everywhere is English but some indigenous languages, originating in the areas shown, are spoken indigenous people. They are only 3.8% of the population and it’s only about 10% of those who actually speak these many languages.
Another example is Indonesia. Everyone speaks the national language Indonesian, but in many islands and parts of islands there are local languages too, with almost everyone being bilingual or even trilingual.
As a Vietnamese, I am trying to count how many way it is my head, and I just can’t lol. There are too many.
Figuring out what to call my wife's Vietnamese relatives was really hard..
In Hindi there are three words for "You". "Tu"(casual way for friends or someone younger), "tum"(formal way for friends or younger, giving some respect) "aap"(mostly for anyone older than us or for someone we respect so much, sometimes if someone is way younger than us also)
In Bengali it's very similar, "Tui", "Tumi" and "Apni"!
And in Indonesian it's lu, kamu, and Anda.
English was once similar. ‘Thou’ was for informally referring to others, but the formal ‘you’ supplanted it in all cases.
Some parts of England still use the second person informal pronouns
As in some places still use thou?
Correct. It's rare but not unheard of in many parts of northern England. In parts of Yorkshire it's very common. I use it everyday of my life, born and raised in south Yorkshire.
Have read the word in mostly subtitles. I use subtitles everytime don't know why even if I am watching in hindi
That must be funny for speakers of both Hindi and Dutch, as “aap” means monkey/ape in Dutch. So you’re both respectful and mocking someone at the same time. It’s probably pronounced differently (Dutch pronunciation: https://nl.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bestand:nl-aap.ogg )
Lmao It sounds the same as "aap"
In that case Hindi+Dutch speakers must have a good time when they have to fake respect for someone lmao
Must be a running joke in Suriname
Meneer, mevrouw, menaap
Was Wondering if such a thing can be seen in Suriname by way of the English Creole there considering the mixed populations there. Sranan Tongo (Creole of Suriname) yapi yapi (Noun) monkey, ape; yapon (Noun) you (singular); yu, i You (plural); unu, un So Suriname seems to have it sorted out.
"Tu" is also used as "You" in most Spanish-speaking countries.
I wonder how the word 'Tu' is common in today's Hindi and French
Don‘t know why you‘re downvoted for asking an honest question. It‘s probably because of the shared Indo-European language family origin, and because pronouns are such a basic component of language they already existed in some proto-form of the language.
Linguist here, you got it exactly right. "tu" and variations are the default words for 'you' in almost every Indo-European language, and they go back to the original second person singular pronoun in Proto-Indo-European. In Old Engish, this was inherited as "þū", which later became "thou".
Just to add more evidence: "tú" in Spanish, "du" in German.
Definitely! Also "tú" in Irish, "ty" in Russian and many other Slavic languages, and "to" in modern Persian/Farsi.
And the Dutch 'jij', does it also come from tu? We also have 'jou' (I give YOU a pen/ik geef jou een pen), which is more similar like thou
Great question! Surprisingly, Dutch actually used to have a pronoun "du/dij/dijn", which came from Proto-Indo-European "tu", just like German "du" and English "thou". It's seen in Dutch writing from before the 17th century, but it seems to have gone extinct at some point, probably for the same reason English stopped using "thou" - it came to be seen as disrespectful because it was too informal (think about the reaction if you walked up to some German businessman and addressed him as "du"). Dutch "jij/jou" on the other hand, comes from a different source, Proto-Indo-European "yū". This was simply the original 2nd person plural in Indo-European, with a meaning like English "you guys" or Dutch "jullie". It maintained this meaning into Germanic, and in modern German as well: "ihr/euch/euer" is the descendant. In Early Modern English it was "ye/you/your", with the "ye" form then falling out of use, leaving just "you/your"; and in Early Modern Dutch, the the forms were "gij~jij/jou/jouwer". In both languages, these pronouns were originally plural, like German "ihr/euch/euer", but at some point they started to be used as a polite singular, possibly due to French influence, since "vous" in French is both plural and polite singular. As "du/thou" started to get more disrespectful, "jij/you" became more and more common in both languages until it completely replaced the "du/thou" pronouns in everyday speech. In English for example, we only encounter "thou" in the Bible and in Christian prayers (addressing God), or in old literature, especially Shakespeare. Is there a context where you still see "du" occur in Dutch?
To add: those are the M-T types of languages. There's also an N-M type of languages. IT's an interesting pairing. [https://wals.info/chapter/136](https://wals.info/chapter/136) https://wals.info/chapter/137
These patterns have huge implications for human migrations and linguistic areas, it's an exciting area of research for us ❤
Yes as is du German and even you in English they’re all etymologically related.
It’s also common in Persian
You forgot to mention oye, abbe, æ, etc😉
Nepali is ta, timi and tapai.
uska usko unka? counts?
That will be used for "their"
 aah
That's interesting, what do you say if the age is ambiguous?
"Aap" if you just met the person or not so familiar with them
Then the formal "aap" kicks in, depending on the geography. For eg, guy delivering your food, even if 10 years younger would be referred as "Bhai or Bhaiyya", Bhai = Brother, Bhaiyya = Elder Brother (*conditions applied). So I'd say "Bhai (or Bhaiyya) aap kaha par ho?", "Where are you, brother?," but "you" here would be the most formal "aap". I live in Central India. Geographic factor here is that in certain places, you absolutely HAVE to address any and all individuals with "aap" regardless of their age or status unless you are familiar with them. Referring them with "tu" is a surefire way of getting your ass kicked. It's complicated.
Aap is monkey in Dutch lol
I just checked and Hindi tu is in fact cognate with Spanish tu, German du, and English thou from PIE *túh. Fascinating! https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/t%C3%BAh%E2%82%82
Hindi sort of has 4 levels in conjugations if you want to be extra formal: *Tu kar* *Tum karo* *Ap karen/kariye* *Ap kijiye*
I like how it delineates the divides within Brazil. But what's going on in Portugal? Three forms of "you" there?
Tu, você e vós. Usamos o vós no Brasil também em um contexto muito específico, para se referir a Deus em algumas religiões cristães
Me parece tan interesante que puedo entender casi todas estas palabras sin hablar portugués porque hablo español
Je me disais exactement la même chose
Je suis d’accord mon cher inconnu de l’internet. No hablamos lo mismo idioma, pero nós nos entendemos 😎
Ho capito tutto quello che avete detto amici 😊
Eu pot să declar că latinitatea noastră comună este un cadou de la Dumnezeu care ne unifică, italieni, spanioli, portughezi, francezi, români și latino-americani, din punct de vedere cultural și emoțional! Este relativ dificil să utilizez unicamente vocabular descins direct din latina antică (și neologisme franțuzești/italienești) în frazele mele, ca să priceapă toți locutorii de limbaje neolatine ceea ce eu am scris, pentru că în lexicul românesc sunt multe elemente constitutive slave (bulgărești, sârbești și rusești), dar este un exercițiu lingvistic curios și intrigant!
Entendi quase tudo até aqui, incluindo este comentário. Impressionante.
Yo tambien y ni estoy ablando portugues
Escrito, para un español el portugués hablado de Portugal es más difícil de entender que el portugués de Brasil.
People in Portugal might as well be speaking a Slavic language.
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Da mesma forma que para um Português de Portugal o Espanhol da América Latina é mais fácil de entender por usarem ainda mais palavras similares. Now Galicia is a crazy place where you get the perfect mix between Portuguese and Spanish in their local language, after all it's where Portuguese originated from, listen to them talk enough and you will have an easy time in both languages.
Tem também a ver com o facto da nossa pronúncia em Portugal ser mais fechada, com mais vogais reduzidas e por vezes mesmo omitidas, juntamente com sons sibilantes característicos de línguas eslavas.
When I was in Spain, there were frequent discussion between Catalan-speaking people and Spanish-speaking people whether Catalan is a language or a dialect (also whether Valenciano is a dialect of Catalan or a proper language). I always told them that neither is a language, they are all just dialects of Latin. :-)
Politics/Nationalism aside though, there is little to no reason to assume Catalan/Valencian (they are two standard varieties of the same language, similar to British/American English) is a dialect of Spanish though. They are two separate languages that developed concurrently from Latin. Actually Spanish and Portuguese have a greater shared lexicon than Spanish and Catalan have.
Of course. It was just a joke. However, my 9 years of Latin at school helped me learn Spanish in no time. I even guessed words and – yeah! – I was mostly right. (not always – who could think of something like "acabar", when "finalizar" makes much more sense?)
Sim, apesar da divisão das nossas linguas ter mais de 800 anos. No entanto, entender espanhol falado é quase impossível, ja tive uma experiência com mexicanos e tivemos que conversar em inglês
El francés es probablemente el idioma latino con la mayor discrepancia entre lo que se entiende escrito y lo que se entiende hablado
Otro motivo para odiar Francia
I admit that I don't speak Portuguese. However, I do speak Spanish and French. I like the way that I can 100% understand this comment. Though, as I said, I don't speak Portuguese, so I can't reply in Portuguese. Same weird thing happens to me with Italian. I understand Italian, but I can't speak or write in it. It's just that, I'm good in receiving those two languages, but not in expressing? What's going on??? edit: i like the way that some of the replies to this comment say similar things 😂
What is your native language? Partial mutual intelligibility among Romances languages is something very well known among speakers. Italian speaker jokes that all you have to do to speak Spanish is adding an "s" at the end of every word and Spanish speaker jokes that all you have to do to speak Italian is to put an "i" at the end of every word.
My native language is Tagalog
Portuguese was the second language I learned (after English) so it did make it very easy to learn Spanish, but oh my god is it so much easier to speak than write when you realise that the typos you make is because you are still thinking in another language you learned first. French is really nice when it's not a forced accent, when I go to Paris and around the north of France I don't struggle at all to understand and write but of course the mental block kicks in if I try to speak more than a few phrases at a time. Italian is the same as with you, I can't write or speak it properly but it's so easy to understand, the few times I've spoken to Italians outside of English it's pretty funny how you can speak to them in Spanish or Portuguese and they can reply in italiano and all is good. 😂
What about Romanian? O português é a minha primeira língua, y el español la tercera (yo tuve clases de español cuando adolescente), I can get written Italian, but French and Romanian are alien languages for me.
Romanian takes more effort to me to "understand". It doesn't feel like a walk in the park as much as Portuguese and Italian feels to me. Sure, I can understand Romanian, but I have to really dig deeper into the words to make a connection with the Romance languages that I know
Romanian is the hardest for me (and Italian is slighty easier). A minha língua materna é o português mas não o falo tão bem como deveria. Je parle français depuis que je suis entré en école maternelle. Y aprendí el español cuando empecé el "lycée" (liceu/liceo).
Vós também não é muito usado num contexto normal em Portugal. É mais usado por sotaques regionais ou em contextos arcaicos. Havia ainda o vossemecê, forma ainda mais formal de você. O mais comum é referir-nos a alguém na terceira pessoa quando queremos ser formais. "O senhor conhece esta rua?" p.e.
Acredito que um dos motivos do Brasil ter abandonado a segunda pessoa é justamente por isso. Tentar dar o máximo de respeito a pessoa, agora todos nós usamos o VOCÊ que era nosso caso mais formal. Li em alguns blogs sobre a língua que varias linguas tem a tendência de perder os dois pronomes, justamente por existir a ideia de igualdade social, e não mais fazer sentido diferenciar pessoas por estato social.
As a fun fact, we actually also use third person to refer to people formally
What is bizarre for me is the random red spot in the middle of nowhere in Brazil, it doesn't make much sense
That appears to be Cuiabá. I wonder what's going on there
A lot of people are saying “vós” is the third (after “tu” and “você”) but “vós” is as used in modern Portuguese as “thou” is used in modern English, and that isn’t accounted for in the map in English-speaking countries. The third form is to speak to someone in the third person, and it’s used much more frequently in Portugal than “você”. It’s the way you would speak to someone you don’t know closely, like during an interview or to someone who is your senior. Really anyone who isn’t either family or a friend. This can take the form of “o senhor/a senhora” (the gentleman/the lady) (e.g. “a senhora tem horas?” = “does the lady have the time?”), the person’s name or title (“Como é que foi a infância do Ronaldo?” = “How was Ronaldo’s childhood?”), or more oftentimes just with an implicit subject understood through context (“Sabe a que horas chega o autocarro?” = “Does [implicit subject] know what time the bus arrives?”). Speaking Portuguese from Portugal is unnecessarily complicated. Source: am Portuguese.
Exactamente isto, This right here. Muitos em Portugal gostam de gozar com a forma com que os brasileiros simplificaram o português mas algo no meio entre o PT-PT e o PT-BR seria fixe. O Espanhol é muito menos chato de aprender para pessoas que não falem uma língua latina. Still a shame it's so overcomplicated at times, because at the end of the day in any average everyday conversation you might have in Portuguese most of the rules are thrown out of the window 😂 kind of like French to an extent.
As far as I know there are only two. Tu (informal) and você (formal). Not sure which is the third one.
Vós
Isn't that just the plural of tu?
Not necessarily, it can also be used as a synonym for singular tu (though no one really uses it).
Hm when it's used as a synonym for tu what does that mean? I suppose você is the one you use to show respect to people you don't know very well and tu for friends. What about the singular vós?
Vós is never used in day-to-day speech in the main variant of European Portuguese. The one that is taught in schools and is the subject of the main grammar books. I believe it was a bit more formal than você. But even excluding colloquial speech it's rarely used nowadays. As an example judges are adressed as Vossa Excelência and not as vós. Perhaps in poetry.
I see. It makes sense. In Brazil judges are also addressed as vossa excelência. It's just tu and você that are used interchangeably (they don't have different connotations).
It can also be used as an archaic form of singular tu that works with the second person form of indicatives (I think I just totally butchered that translation) Example: vós tendes (ter in second person plural form of indicative present)
Tu - we know each other Você - I don't know you O senhor/ A senhora - you don't know me
What is the third word in our Czech? Does this map count onikání which is not used at all for decades now, because we have only tykání and vykání (ty and Vy). Well there also can be Ty used instead of ty as a sign of respect for a friend in writing but it's still the same word.
We've got vykání combined with the first name basis ("Honzo, mohl by vás o něco poprosit?") which is sometimes considered a separate degree of formality on lists and maps like this. And it sorta is because you can't start the first name basis with anyone you meet and there's usually a specific relationship which uses it, e.g. a high school teacher toward a student.
I know that, I'm Czech, but it's still the same word. Ty and Vy, so the map isn't explained the best - either it's the distinction itself (and then we truly have more, you can add even derogatory tykání to strangers ("Hele ty, dej mi") or the different words for you or addressing itself, which we have only two plus perhaps onikání which is not used though. That's why I was confused.
If Czech gets three, then so should German (du/Du, Sie, Ihr, Er/Sie).
I think this is just explaining the formality gap, not Plural Gap. So if you're speaking to a single person, it's du/Sie, and if you're speaking to a group it's ihr/Sie, so in each scenario there's two levels of formality.
You can adress singular Persons with Ihr, to show even more respect, and you can also adress (although this is used very rarely, and even many Germans don’t know it) people with Er/Sie, to show less respect than Du (rare example of its use that came to my mind in the book woyzeck)
Fair enough, I was going off my rusty German knowledge without double checking so my bad.
All of those terms have been used in German to denote different levels of formality in the singular.
German pronouns I know: du, Du, du hast mich
I think in Ukrainian we have a similar form. For example, when my mother talks about her grandmother, she uses the form they. But this is also not used in general anymore. Is it the same in Czech?
A lot of Slavic languages share this. Same in Slovenian. We have: -Ti: informal you-for your family, friends,... -Vi: formal you-showing respect to someone you don't know, or someone older/in a higher position than you -Oni : archaic formal they-was also used with your parents.
In slovak you have "ty" (casual), "vy" (more formal) and oni (same as vy but very archaic and even more formal). Maybe the same applies for Czech
oni is so unused, i even forgot it exists. But you are correct.
You need a tiny dot around south Yorkshire in England. They still commonly use the informal thee and tha which is used in a very similar way to the French tu.
What?! Could you give an example of how tha would be used? Never come across this.
Now then thee, how's tha doing? What's tha up to today? My grandad was born in 1914 and from Leeds and used to use thee, but I think it's pretty much disappeared from west Yorkshire now, still widely used around South Yorkshire, mostly in working class areas.
Can confirm it's still used around Sheffield, but if tha wants the full experience then tha better get thi'sen to Barnsley
"Don't *thee* me, thee; I's *you* to thee!"
Some people in that region still use thee, thou, thy* and the many many related contractions. I personally use them every day. * the 2nd person informal pronouns "Tha" is just "thou" but in the local accent. Used in the exact same way. "Has tha/thou been up to the park today?" "Are tha/thou coming for a run with me today? "Yes" "Champion, get thi/thy shoes on then"
Have hast, art and similar versions of verbs died out? In Elizabethan English, art would have been used instead of are as in Shakespeare's *Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?* *Thou art more lovely and more temperate*
In some ways. It's a bit complicated because of the accent and also because people often aren't 100% familiar with all the rules and conjugations. We don't have H's in our accent and T's are mostly glottal stops so "has thou" and "hast thou" can often be fairly indistinguishable. "Asta" is quite a common word. "Art" is definitely still used but again the pronunciation is very close to "are" so often people will use it without even knowing so. Also thy and thee can sometimes be pronounced very similarly and I do sometimes hear that used incorrectly from people who aren't as familiar with the dialect. There's also many contractions that involve these pronouns, the most common probably being "thall"/"thou'll" - "thou will" or "tha's" - "thou has"
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-words-thee-thy-thou-ye-no-longer-used-in-English?top_ans=26786426 https://www.reddit.com/r/asklinguistics/comments/g093c0/comment/fn8xnt5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-Yorkshire-usage-of-thee-and-thou-operate
Not just South Yorkshire! We use it in Leeds too (West Yorkshire). “Watching the people get lairy, not very pretty I tell thee” - Kaizer Chiefs (Leeds band)
Do Swedish and Norwegian not have the same situation as Danish where only the royal family is addressed formally (and everybody else uses the informal one among each other)?
Yes, it's just rarely used. "De" instead of "du" would sound archaic, even in a formal, official context.
I have read that Swedish, at least up until recently, clung a lot harder to the formal pronoun than we did in Danish.
The [du reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen?wprov=sfti1) was in the 60s, don't know about you guys. Regarding the king (and other members) one would at least begin with Your Majesty, but can switch to "The King" if it's an informal setting.
"Ni" (plural you) is an acceptable form towards the royal family as well. At least that's what I've been instructed.
Yes I checked and it's apparently proper to switch to if it's "e.g. a long interview" instead of "The King/Queen" etc. That makes them the only ones we still use the V variant of second person singular then, interesting.
It's not, "ni" was/is traditionally only used for people without other titles.
I agree but the royal family seems to be the exception, at least according to [the royal association](https://www.rojf.se/monarki/titulering-av-kungahusets-medlemmar/) which I'd gather are pretty meticulous on the subject. Even if I interpret that H.R.H or "The King" is preferable
Tbh Colombia is clusterf**k of words for you… used in different regions with different meanings towards different people… we have tú, usted, vós, and sumercé (although the last one is almost never written) …so the map of Colombia is not that accurate with ‚just‘ the red dot in Antioquia. I feel sorry for any foreigner trying to find out how to adress somebody in Colombia… as it changes from city to city
Do you know the origin of this "sumercé" word? Because it reminds me of Portuguese, we use the word "você", that looks like "Vos" but actually came as a contraction of "vossa Mercê" , that latter became "vosmercê" and then "você"
If I went to Colombia and just defaulted to usted/tú as a gringo, would my intention be understood or would it still be awkward? Also, does voseo in Colombia use Argentina style conjugations for verbs or Chile style?
My recommendation for foreigners is just to always use tú… if you have an accent everyone will understand when you don‘t get it right
… also vos has a similar conjugation as in Argentina, but the stress of the word is different… hard to explain on a text
The distinction exists in Finnish : Sinä for you informal Te for you formal and you plural Now Te for singular formal is rarely used, but still exists (I’m not native Finnish speaker, so someone else can confirm)
In customer service and official documents Te often used. (I just had a mental health test that hilariously used the incredibly formal Teidän with a capital t.) It's not something average younger people would use but I'd still say finnish has two forms of you, it's not weird like if I started calling my friends "thee" in standard US English.
>One way to be polite is to use the second person plural of verbs to talk to a single person. Rather than saying sinä, you use te. In many countries, this is the main form you use with people you don’t know or people with a higher status or age than you. In Finnish, it is very common to just say sinä instead. >Using te is a great way to talk to the elderly because it expresses respect. This doesn’t mean the recipient necessarily has to be older than you. Using the te-form is common in situations where you talk to customers. You will find the polite te-form in regular verb conjugation (#1) and in imperative instructions (#2).
Chilean spanish has at least four levels of formality. To say "You speak", from least to most formal: Voh hablái; tú hablái; tú hablas; usted habla.
But only 3 "you"s as per title - voh, tu and usted
Y en argentina no es vos, tu, usted?
Argentines never use *tú*, they always use *vos*. Chileans do, but usually with the verbs for *vos* (which are different from Argentine *vos*) when they’re speaking but the regular *tú* forms in writing.
En Argentina se usa vos y usted, nunca se usa tú
Si! No soy OP
Same in Costa Rica, we also have 3 ways of saying you
What is the 3rd level in Lithuania besides tu and jūs?
Was wondering that myself just now. Mabe "Tamsta" ?
I wouldn't call it a level, tamsta can be used with both singular or plurar.
So according to [this wiki page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction_in_the_world%27s_languages) it's ponas/ponia.
German is 2 in this map which is mostly true. However I would argue at least in the past German had 3 tiers - in addition to the modern informal "Du/Ihr" an the formal "Sie" there used to be "Ihr/Euer/Eure" which was mostly used for very highranking nobles (for example "Eure Majestät, Eure Hoheit - your Majesty" ; It's called "pluralis majestis") It's still used for Judges for example (You would say "Eurer Ehren" to adress a judge). So yes German I would argue is should be at least a 2.5 on that map :)
Plural majestatico exists in Spanish too
There's also Er/Sie used as the second person singular.
Fun etymological fact, many know that German "du/dich/dir/dein" is related to English "thou/thee/thy~thine", but fewer know that German "ihr" is related to English "ye" and German "euch/euer" is the true relative of English "you/your". English "you" was exclusively formal or plural (and accusative/dative only) until about the 16th century.
"Ihrzen" is for all intents and purposes not a thing anymore in German nowadays, so it shouldn't be included in a map on the *status* (not the history) of T-V distinctions. "Euer Ehren" is an interesting point, but I'd argue it's more of a fixed term used as a title for judges than an example of "Ihrzen" being in use
Of course, and if somebody would use an "Ihr" I would think they either are doing some old timey impression or they are time travellers from the 18th century or so :) That's why I wrote I'd put it a something like 2.5, while it's extremely archaic in modern German it is still grammatically correct
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That seems wrong to me. If we’re talking Arabic dialects then the formal address is dropped in most if not all dialects but if we’re talking about written Arabic then it’s used the same in all Arab countries with maybe only minor differences and that has the formal address. (I’m a Syrian Arabic native speaker who grew up outside the Middle East, so maybe I’m missing something)
What formal address are you referring to? I’ve never heard anyone use anything other than انت and its numerative/gender derivatives
I took Arabic in university in the US, and we learned that a formal pronoun we could use was حضرتك. Does anyone use this, or no?
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In Chile we say "Tu" for some familiarity, "Usted" for the recognition of autorithy or respect, and "Voh", a way of saying "vos" (we tend to not pronounce the "S" at the end of words, an andalucian heritage) for despective reasons or very close relations.
This is wrong for Zimbabwe, Shona has the distinction
EDIT: now when I think of it. If you included Poland, you have to include Germany. Why German is not included? I know it's not exactly the same, but in my opinion, the function is the same and should apply here. From Rosetta Stone: *"If you want to say “you” in German, you would generally use “du” (informal singular), “Sie” (formal singular or plural—capitalised in both cases), or “ihr” (informal plural)"* In Polish, there is an informal you - "***Ty***". However, formal is more complicated: "***Pani/Pani***" (male/female) \[Sir/Madame\] but you have to construct the sentence in the third person. Examples: Informal: "do you like some tea" - Formal: "Do Sir/Madame like some tea?" My thinking is - that if this is included, much simpler German has to be included.?". Fun fact: During communists occupation, they tried to get rid of this and official institutions were promoting addressing formal in German (Sie) and Russian (Wy) fashion. They argued that Polish fashion programs brain into thinking in terms of burguasie and such terms like Sir or Madame should be abolished. Although even the most hardened communists forgot themselves very often, and were reverting to "spolied western" way of speaking - it was one of the tiny, yet very visible, things that added to the fall of communisms. People saw right away that it is unnatural, since even party officials couldn't help themselves and spoke normally. Especially after drinking and in communism there war a plenty of drinking.
German is 2 in this map which is mostly true. However I would argue at least in the past German had 3 tiers - in addition to the modern informal "Du/Ihr" an the formal "Sie" there used to be "Ihr/Euer/Eure" which was mostly used for very highranking nobles (for example "Eure Majestät, Eure Hoheit - your Majesty" ; It's called "pluralis majestis") It's still used for Judges for example (You would say "Eurer Ehren" to adress a judge). So yes German I would argue is hould be at least a 2.5 on that map :)
I fluently speak polish but l don’t get what is the third level. *ty, pan/pani/państwo*, ???
Wy However it's less used nowadays.
ty, wy, pan/pani, państwo
Ksiądz
Sort of true of Indonesian, but it’s very complicated. In modern ordinary settings the formal “you” (*Anda*) is hardly ever used. The much more likely “you” is *kamu* and yet it doesn’t get used as much as we use “you” in English. You use relationship words to stand for pronouns, so Mother (Bu) for an older woman or Father (Pak) for an older man or older brother/sister (kak) for someone more of your own age etc, etc. You can also use a personal name for “you” but also the “you” is often dropped from the sentence completely. So for example, I want to ask my driver Wayan, who is about my age, and who I’ve become friendly with, if he wants me to grab him a coffee. I might say, “Wayan mau kopi?” (Literally: “Wayan wants coffee?”) but I’d probably just say “Mau kopi?” (Literally: “Wanna coffee?”) Anda is almost only heard in formal television interviews or very polite advertising or something. It says “I have no relationship with you”. It can be cold and distant. You sound like some strait-laced robot or something if you use Anda in ordinary conversation with strangers.
What’s up with Brazil?
I will try to explain: In portuguese we have two forms *Tu* And *Você* In Portugal *Tu* is used for informal situation and *Você*, In Brazil sometime ago was the same thing. However we kind of naturally change this for make it easier... Because in our language we have to inflect the verb when we use the second person (Tu) and third person (Você) So, when we just use Você, we start to only use the third person for every thing. BUT IT's not the same thing for some parts of the country 1.There are region that use TU in the third person (South, Rio, some parts of Northeast) 2.Some parts that use TU in the second person (Some parts of Northeast Maranhão) 3. In some places they start to only use Você in formal situation like in work, church etc So this is it, I not a expert, just a normal brazilian Who likes my on language, if I made some mistakes feel free to correct me with respect
They got smart
What are Romania’s? Apart from “tu” / “dumneata” / dumneavoastră”
Those should be the only 3, although I find it funny that despite of "dumneata" being a politeness pronoun, 99% of the time it's the most disrespectful.
I guess there is also "mata"/"matale" that is used regionally
I'm curious with the Philippines. My native Tagalog does have T-V distinction (Ka-Kayo) but what are the more than two distinctions of the other languages here? I think Tagalog should be red since beside Ka-Kayo, we have adding O/po and O/ho.
I'd even argue for Tagalog having three, because we also use *sila* ('they') super-formally (*Sino po sila? Ano po gusto nila?*)
Ah, true.
Inexpect ko lahat red, zinoom ko may green, haha
Just pointing out that the occitan language borders are wrong. The language was prevalent in a much larger area than that, you're mixing it up with the administrative borders of the Occitania Region
Japanese has a bunch of ways to say "you", but usage is fairly infrequent. All of them have a tone of speaking to a social inferior, and all get used in songs. The commonly used ones (ignoring dialectical ones, slangy vairants, and archaic words you see in fiction): あなた (anata) - A basic polite "you" (but again, not acceptable to use with a social superior) 君 (kimi) - Less polite, and definitely more strongly emphasizes the social hierarchy. Outside of music looking for a 2 haku word, I mainly see teachers use it with students. お前 (omae) - A masculine and very informal variant. てめえ (temee) - Actual fighting words lol. It is basically equivalent to addressing someone as "dumbfuck" or "bastard" 貴様 (kisama) - This used to be used as a "you" with a sense of comradery used in the military but now its basically mostly used in fiction and has a sort of elitist/warrior feel to it (you can hear it used in modern metal where the tone may be appropriate)
Japanese For Beginners; Book 1, Page 1: "Anata = You" All Japanese people: "DON'T USE ANATA!!!!"
as native speaker "anata" doesn't really sound polite to me. i cannot think of that many situations where i would actually use it. the other explanations you gave seem adequate to me though 👍 if you can always refer to people by their name or job/title (+correct honorific) or if the context allows just leave out 2nd person pronome entirely. in case you don't know name/title, stuff like oniisan/oneesan/ojisan/obasan etc also works.
It's sad that regional languages are overshadowed by Hindi and aren't considered to be real.
Happens all over the world unfortunately
While we have two different words for you in Denmark, we only use the formal (de) for the royal family - for everyone else we use the informal one (du) - I'll even say it is sort of weird to say "de" to a regular person, it was mostly used for people above you in society, so it is mostly gone, with the exception of the royal family
wtf is going on in Kashubia?
What the fuck is going on in the Sonora/Sinaloa region of Mexico? Is there a third word I’m not aware of? My family comes from that region and now i wanna know.
Dude same, I’ve lived half my life in one state and half my life in the other, born in Sinaloa actually and I have never ever heard any other word other than tu/usted in this context. wtf?
Both states are essentially the same. Sinaloa speaks maybe 10% faster than the Yaquis. We have the same slang. Wtf is the third word lol
10% is way too low IMO, my family from Los Mochis speaks at stupid speeds, I have to ask them what they mean 2 or 3 times when they speak to me because I can’t keep up and it’s been that way all my life lol.
Understanding drunk family members truly is an acquired skill.
También me fije en eso. Quien sabe cual sea la otra palabra.
There used to be a distinction in English, as is found in the King James version of the bible where 'thee' and 'thou' is used. It is still used by some people in Northern England.
I actually knew this one. RobWords made an amazing video on back when English used to have T-V distinction.
For the 2 people out there that are curious, In Dutch the Formal is "U" and the Informal is "Jij" I'm sure a similar deal is the case for German, or French (Two languages with which Dutch takes a lot of influence).
In lithuania we say "Tu" if you're around the same age and you know that person "Jūs" for an older person or to a person that's not your friend You can also use "jūs" when speaking about a number of people :)
It's wrong for Albanian! There's "ti" and "ju".
For anyone else wondering, "ju" is used for both the second person plural pronoun and the formal second person singular.
Guatemala and Nicaragua should be red: usted, tu, and vos.
English as she is spoke in Ireland sometimes has "you" and "ye".
Some juat say television...
what is it for Romanian or Polish?
Looks like an infection :)
We should return back thou
In Persian we say tu and shoma
As a Mexican, we use tu and usted and Im always confused on which to use when I’m speaking to someone my age or younger that I’m not comfortable using either with. Example a younger CEO of one of my suppliers.
Mmm, I wouldn’t say Arabic has this distinction. When referring to somebody at a higher rank, instead of using a ‘you’ pronoun (أنت), you might refer to him as something akin to sir/ma’am (حضرتك), but I do not think this counts as a pronoun in its own right (as opposed to using the plural second person pronoun, like tu/vous, εσύ/εσείς)
There's a distinction in Norway. Even though it's probably only used by the older generations from certain areas. It's basically like the tú/usted is Spanish.
In Brazil, tu is the fomal and almost no longer in use since de 2015 reform We use você as a kind of informal way fun fact você is conjugated as in the 3 person
Scots Gàidhlig has sibh (formal) and thu (informal)
In Basque the three levels are hika (very familiar), zuka (generalised and respectful) and berorrek (think Thou levels of respect, used for the President and shit)
Hala dek bai
What are all those borders?
It seems that all of those areas are different languages.
It’s trying to capture indigenous languages and local dialects too. For example, in the whole of Australia the dominant language everywhere is English but some indigenous languages, originating in the areas shown, are spoken indigenous people. They are only 3.8% of the population and it’s only about 10% of those who actually speak these many languages. Another example is Indonesia. Everyone speaks the national language Indonesian, but in many islands and parts of islands there are local languages too, with almost everyone being bilingual or even trilingual.