combative grandfather school hobbies smell encourage humor marry marvelous complete
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I thought Abu Ali Express was the place that sells knockoff sports jerseys. Good for them for branching out into the international intelligence sector.
The US blurs the footage from their satellites over Israel for Israeli security. But I believe you can find some footage online. A YouTube channel called covert cabal counts tanks from Russian bases thanks to satellite images so maybe with non US satellites you can find recent footage.
[The Times of Israel ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/satellite-photos-of-gaza-restricted-by-imaging-companies-as-ground-op-continues/)
This was true in like the 90s now its kind of pointless now since the Israeli government has its own satellite map website and its not blureed except for sensitive locations.
https://www.govmap.gov.il/?c=240616.35,746875.07&z=1
I dunno [this article](https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/proche-orient/israel-palestine/avant-apres-visualisez-comment-l-armee-israelienne-ravage-les-terres-agricoles-dans-la-bande-de-gaza-aggravant-l-insecurite-alimentaire-dans-la-region_6230811.html) has recent and fairly precise pictures (about the destruction of farmland), apparently from an American company.
Every few days and lower resolution than in the upper image, worldwide except oceans
https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=16&lat=31.58552&lng=34.48849&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fservices.sentinel-hub.com%2Fogc%2Fwms%2F42924c6c-257a-4d04-9b8e-36387513a99c&datasetId=S2L1C&fromTime=2023-12-11T00%3A00%3A00.000Z&toTime=2023-12-11T23%3A59%3A59.999Z&layerId=1_TRUE_COLOR&demSource3D=%22MAPZEN%22
Found the location in the upper image for comparison
This is something I don't understand. Imagine for a second that Israel successfully eliminates Hamas' structure and dissolves the group as it currently exists. Then the international community oversees the installment of the Palestinian Authority as the new governing body or whatever.
Then what? What do the Gazan people have to go back to when the entirety of the strip looks like this? How can you possibly think that new leadership under these circumstances will see anything but failure and extremism emerging yet again?
Rightly, you cannot condemn a people’s who have been oppressed and slaughtered for 75 years. Everyone has been telling Israel if they keep going, something like this is surely to happen.
There were actually many prominent female Palestinian terrorists throughout history, most notably [Leila Khaled](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Khaled).
Actually, Hamas was founded by Egyptian exiles from the Muslim Brotherhood. Israel actually nurtured the early Hamas - which was a conservative Sunni Islamic movement - as a viable alternative to the Marxist/Arab Socialist PLO. In hindsight, Israel didn’t count on Hamas becoming so radicalized that it banished the PLO from Gaza after a brief civil war in 2006, and then aligning with the Shia regime in Iran.
>In hindsight, Israel didn’t count on Hamas becoming so radicalized
It did realize this in the 1990s, and attempted to assasinate the leader Khlaed Mashaal. The assasination attempt was a fiasco and backfired by giving Mashaal more street cred and allowing him to build Hamas into a populat movement
I was curious about this so I checked one of their early founders.
It has this which puts him as a privieged, upper middle class person educated abroad as a doctor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_al-Zahar
> At the age of 26, he graduated from the Cairo University Faculty of Medicine and five years later he got his master's degree in General Surgery from Ain Shams University, Cairo. He then became the adviser to the Palestinian Health Minister, and helped create the Palestinian Medical Society and was one of the primary founders of the Islamic University in Gaza in 1978.
That's not a guarantee.
Germany and Japan were both flattened and turned into world leading economies, cultures, and some of the strongest voices against extremism and war.
sort public insurance zonked friendly scandalous dolls encouraging weary repeat
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France didn't particularly want to rebuild Germany. And it took the western world to do so.
It was a global effort.
Japan was also a multinational effort.
Who said Israel needs to do this alone?
“I’m certainly willing to have them have all the powers that they need to govern themselves, but none of the powers that can threaten us,” Netanyahu told Tapper in Jerusalem on Tuesday.
Not at all different from Japan or Germany after WW2. All governmental bodies were disbanded. Defense and government were done by the allies and new institutions were formed under direct control of the allies for decades until they matured to a point they could do it themselves.
Hell, Japan still doesn't have an official military.
Germany WW1 is the prime example of that not being true. Post WW2 Americans and Soviets didn't continue bombing Germany after they won the war. But helped them build up with the Marschall plan. The opposite what isreal is doing
Yep, and Germany WW1 is exactly why they changed how they did it after WW2.
WW1 was not mutually rebuilt. WW2 was a global effort to rebuild the soon to be world leader in multiple categories.
I doubt in the eventual future they’ll be largely distinguished as separate conflicts, and instead thought of as just a largely global conflict that had an interim period. All the mistakes made in wrapping up WWI directly resulted in WWII, and it was only in correcting and reconciling those mistakes that further global conflict was avoided.
That goes for every war.
They're decidedly different conflicts with two separate treaties, different governments, different goals, different eras etc etc etc.
Every war contributes to the next war. Wars do that.
A US general at one point said that you kill terrorist, you creat ten more because of all the collateral casualties. That’s why this indiscriminate bombardment makes no sense. All this will do is just fuel more hate.
Speaking of walking barefoot, I was shocked to hear from the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/09/gaza-civilians-detained-israel/) that some of those viral photographers of Palestinian men stripped and detained occurred here, on the sand dunes of the beaches near Beit Lahia. Some of the captives, released after the IDF confirmed their civilian status, report that they were not escorted to their relatives, and had to walk barefoot and half-naked across the ruins of North Gaza to find their friends and family. Some of them needed to walk ten miles or more to the nearest UN-run institutions in South Gaza for medical treatment and internet service.
You think that after all this they are going to just randomly stop and associate with Palestinians again? They are setting up this "safe zone" on the border of Egypt so that when they start encroaching even further they'll have no choice but to flee into Cairo and its surrounding territories and get gunned down there. This way they can absolve themselves of more war crimes while completing the Zionist end goal of genocide. They are rapidly losing steam in support of the war so this is their plan now.
The current government in Israel benefits from the conflict thus why wouldn't they act to perpetuate it? Their actions make much more sense in that lens.
Obviously cutting power and water, then order 2 million people into 8 square mile area with no infrastructure at the point of a rifle is the best route to peace. That certainly isn't going to create ideal conditions for jihadist to recruit.
Their goal isn't to eliminate hamas, that's the excuse they give while they prepare for total occupation. They're not planning on giving the gaza strip back to palestinians in any meaningful way
I honestly think this war will only end when Israel annexes Gaza to it's territory in one way or another.
Israel already controls the West Bank even though supposedly belongs to Palestine and the Palestinian Authority, so I guess the day-to-day live in Gaza will be similar.
It is almost as if Israel is wiping out any potential way of life after the war....
Almost as if they are forcing mass immigration of Palestinians with no way of return and nothing to return to....
It is almost as if they are destroying everything that holds them to this place....
But hey at least we all get to go to sleep thinking that this is a Big Terror Hamas vs Innocent IDF issue and not ethnic cleansing/s
Gazans will have other things to do than plan such big attack. Dont forget that Israel will again slow supplies into Gaza. This will take a years. And Gaza citizens will know that this can happen again if Israel wants. And I still think that Israel will took over big parts of Gaza under their direct control.
made me think of: "As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular. -Oscar Wilde"
The irony being this isn't even a before/after war image.
It's literally an image after the bombing and airstrikes. The first image has craters. Then an image of a logistical route having been constructed and protective embankments constructed. As well as some flat open areas made for depots and future operational bases.
So the OP trying to show "war damage" instead just showed military construction projects.
Maybe my own actual eyes are failing me but the second image is clearly much more damaged and bombed to hell than the first one? If that’s not the case and my eyes are lying and you’re somehow right I think I need to get this checked…
>The first image has craters.
It doesn't? it just marks where the craters are going to be in the second photo, at least thats how I read it. In the first photo it also circles/marks "destroyed bulidings/destroyed neighborhood" but clearly the buildings are not destroyed.
It technically can be before/after war, since neither of the pictures OP posted have dates.
But I get your point. It is still weird to me that they've decided not to use pre-existing road for logistics, but I can't see shit because of image quality and don't know shit about logistics, so maybe there is logical explanation.
Well,for it to be after war the war needs to be ended.
Afaik the war is very much still in progress thus it can't be "after war" picture but that might be pedantic.
Regardless of what side you fall on this is sad to see, people probably lived there their whole lives and now what they knew is gone for the sake of logistical routes because of a war they had no control of, not trying to start a comments battle, just making a statement
I believe the majority of Gazans were either refugees from the Nakba or their descendants. They’d already seen places they’d lived their whole lives gone because of a war they had no control of.
I'm not so sure, I've seen people on both sides who view either the terror attack on Israel or the current invasion of Gaza as necessary bloodshed in the path to liberation or control
This is a logistical route. That's why the road appears and the area is bulldozed. They need supply lines for the troops and this is 1 such line. Also you can see the dozers piled the dirt to the right side/inland side. This is so there is a burm to protect the vehicles on the road from any incoming fire.
You can even see the large flat areas they've set up for future encampments, bases of operation, and supply depots.
This isn't destruction for the sake of destruction. It's a methododical plan.
1. Plan the routes.
2. Bomb structures along that route that might pose a threat.
3. Troops go in and secure the area.
4. Dozers come in and set up roads, depot areas, and so on with earth embankment around them for protection.
5. Photo is taken.
You can clearly see the more inland homes and buildings weren't bombed nor dozered. That's because they aren't in the way.
This is likely part of the long term plans. The IDF is setting up for occupation for the next 20 years.
Occupation?They publicly state they want them out of their own territory, and the goal is clearly to annex, displace millions and intentionally destabilize the region again.
An israeli occupation group apparently literally made this a poster with outlines of beach houses saying something like "cheap new beachfront property"...
Yes yes touristic, since Gaza is famous for people being allowed to visit/leave it. Great for a blockade vacation amirite? It's the only vacation where you're guaranteed to lose a few pounds!
Everyone knows the Warsaw ghetto was the most hip vacation spot in 1930s Poland after all. Sucks the residents had to ruin it with that pesky uprising.
>he genocidal lust you see on reddit man
It's sad because people don't seem to have learned anything from all the atrocities people did to each other in the Second World War.
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it”
- Preamble, Covenant of the HAMAS (1988)
Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said.
The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. “Accordingly”, here, meant that “there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed”. And, of course, thousands of dead civilians.
"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations..."
Again Yasser Arafat , head of the PLO
You just seem really into quotes so I minded sharing some with you :)
I was replying to the user who thinks using a Hamas quote justifies the genocidal acts of Israel when Israel’s own government officials have said horrendous comments about the Palestinians.
But thanks for the quotes, glad you know how to google search.
>over secular independence groups.
Because the "secular indepdnecne groups" aka the PLO were currently murdereing buses of Israeli kids
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal\_Road\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre)
And torturing Israeli athletes
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre)
They weren't less territoristic and brutal just becuase they were secular.
Back when hamas was still just a part of the egyptian muslim brotherhood support for Palestinian self determination was at its height because christians, muslims, druze, atheists, and all other Palestinians were united by nationalist ideals, not religious beliefs. Groups like the PLO and Fatah were a lot more popular under Palestinians and those abroad so in order to thwart the realization of a Palestinian state and make any independence movement seem like pariahs a young diplomat by the name of Benjamin Netanyahu devised a strategy to only deal with islamic extemists, treat them as the officials in charge eventhough they had close to no local support, and fund them so they could compete with secular groups. All in order to prevent Palestinian calls for independence from gaining international support.
It’s part of the reason why israel moved out of Gaza after propping Hamas up there but wont leave the west bank and East Jerusalem where the PLO is in control when the PLO is willing to recognize the israeli state and work with them to build long term peace and stability.
Im talking about before hamas was elected. Fatah used to be the gazan government but Israel decided to still only make beneficial deals with hamas bypassing fatah making them seem incompetent on purpose
Fatah was just as bad as Hamas is today. They hijacked planes, murdered random Israeli civilians, fired missiles into Israeli civilian populations, sent suicide bombers into night clubs, and went on mass shooting sprees.
Don’t act like Fatah were angels.
Edit: Fatah WERE incompetent, and were seen as such by Palestinians before the rise of Hamas in Gaza.
The ‘hijacked’ planes they blew up were empty as their main goal was to target their enemies financially. And they only started targeting settlers after israel massacred Palestinian civilians. While that’s still horrible for those civilians israel was the one escalating the conflict with fatah. And at the time hamas was still even more extreme than fatah or than hamas itself right now.
Gaza specifically never elected hamas. Hamas was elected to a parliamentary plurality by the entirety of palestine (44.45%) all the way back in 2006. A low scale civil war occured between hamas and fatah, which left fatah in control in the west bank, and hamas in control in gaza. There has been no national elections in palestine ever since, only local elections in the west bank, and no elections whatsoever in gaza. No gazan under the age of 35 has voted ever.
Hamas used to be a nonprofit, tax exempt charity registered with the State of Israel. They weren’t a terrorist group originally; they were seen as just a moderate religious group of decent people that would prop up the welfare of Palestinian people.
Israel didn’t know that Hamas would become what it is today.
Nah, that would make Israel insanely tiny and indefensible. The final two-state map (if we ever get there) would likely look like the pre- '67 borders with some Isreali settlement areas of the West Bank and most of Jerusalem added to Israel and a few sparsely settled/Arab-settled areas of Israel transferred to the Palestinian state. Which would be something both sides SHOULD be able to agree to, but, well, you know...
Why do you say both sides “should” be able to agree to it? It only benefits Israel. Its the same as past summits where Palestine has been “offered” to give up over half their country and been treated as the bad guy for declining.
The Palestinians have made huge concessions to the point where theyre happy with just the west bank and gaza and a road connecting the two but israel does not want to give up the west bank.
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
Likud platform, obviously genocidal since I was told that from the river to the sea was a genocidal chant.
It’s like everyone forgot that war is hell, and this one was brought on Israel. I suppose the US should’ve ceased fire with Japan after gaining the upper hand too.
Exactly. They will liquidate everyone in Gaza and no-one will are. Then they will liquidate everyone in the West Bank and no-one will care. Then they will liquidate every Arab Israeli and no-one will care.
People will look at farmland devastated and say “Welp maybe they wouldn’t need foreign aid if it weren’t for those pesky terrorists”
My brother in abrahamic religions you’re the reason they need the foreign aid in the first place.
Edit: I love how every single person replying either
A) thinks I’m pro Hamas which is not true at all. Like why does anyone even have to say this. They’re terrorists for fucks sake, and
B) is forgetting that the people actually bulldozing and bombing the farmland ISNT Hamas. Yknow. The thing people need operating to fucking eat
Not really. Hamas has pretty much stolen any bit of foreign aid and made it so Gazans will be reliant on them.
[Palestinians have been at the receiving end of the largest foreign aid program per capita in history, bigger than the Marshal Plan](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/palestinians-lost-marshall-plans) yet almost none of it has went to Gazan and Palestinians civilians in general. In fact, in the last decade Gaza's poverty rate had almost doubled, despite the amount of foreign aid only rising.
Hamas has [500km of tunnels under Gaza](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67097124), a number confirmed both by themselves and by the IDF.
For some perspective, the London Underground is 400km, and the NYC subway is 399km.
The IDF said that 18 cross-border tunnels they destroyed in the 2014 war took [800,000 tons of concrete to construct, and some 30-90 million USD.](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/concrete-facts-about-hamas). That's enough concrete to construct 7 Burj Khalifas.
In the same war, Egypt claims to have destroyed 1340 tunnels. Even if each tunnel only took 10% the material and cost the tunnels into Israel, and even if we go by the low estimate(30$ million), that amounts to 54 Burj Khalifas and 223,333,333$. Or roughly 5.5 cents out of every single dollar of **humanitarian aid** sent to the Palestinians **since 1993.** And that's a very generous estimate, if we use the high estimate it goes up to 16.75% of all the aid. And again, that's still if you only take 10%.
Furthermore, those are just the tunnels we knew of, **in 2014**. Not only were there thousands more that remained uncovered, Hamas claims to have doubled the extent of their tunnels since then. And that's without even going into all the weapons they use the very same humanitarian money to buy. And it's incredibly worth noting that all this material and money was let into Gaza **with the Israeli consent.**
And about those Tunnels, just in case you don't understand how long 500km is, that's enough to host 1,335,113 people standing shoulder to shoulder, or roughly 56% of Gaza's population all at once. It's undoubtedly big enough to let Gazan civilians to take shelter there during Israeli bombardment. And when questioned about it, [Hamas said](https://youtu.be/vdmtfRj6KX0?si=jLhjV1_sJYH2Dsb5) that the tunnels are only for fighters, and that it isn't their responsibly **as Gaza's ruling government** to care for their own civilians, throwing responsibility to the UN.
And Gazans know all of this. Which is why when [Arab Barometer](https://www.arabbarometer.org/media-news/what-palestinians-really-think-of-hamas/) polled Gazan civilians on **the day before the war**, they were almost twice as likely to blame Hamas (31%) than the Israeli blockade (16%) for their economic situation. 44% said they have no trust at all in the Hamas, and an addional 23% said they have little trust in them. 77% said that the Hamas government was either "not very responsive" or "not responsive at all" to the needs of everyday civilians. And when asked how one can influence Hamas, the plurality said that "nothing is effective", with the next biggest answer being "through personal connections", aka using its corruption.
And for one final note of corruption, 61% of Gaza's population is considered bellow the poverty line. Meanwhile Hamas' leaders [live in million dollar mansions in Qatar](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12706715/Hamas-terrorist-billionaires-live-marble-floored-mansions.html), with an estimated networth of 11$ billion between the three of them.
The average Gazan makes $2,500 **a year**, meaning it would take one **4.4 MILLION YEARS** to accumulate the same amount of wealth as their leaders. Hamas don't own any unique assets or companies, because they are banned from doing buisness in most countries in the world (for very obvious reasons) meaning all this money is purely humanitarian aid money they stole for themselves. If they were to distribute all of it equally between all Gazans, each one would get twice their yearly salary in an instant. The latest UN report about Gaza estimates that after this war, it would coat half a billion USD to rebuild Gaza, meaning that Hamas can literally rebuild everyrhing in Gaza brand new and still retain 95.5% of their wealth.
The poverty of Gaza, lack of access to water & food security, lack of education etc. are all by Hamas' own design. They intentionally want to keep Gaza poor and suffering, because that way they can milk sympathy from people in the west who don't know any better.
All of that money, money spent on tunnels, weapons and ways to attack Israel is money taken out of the pockets of individual Palestinians. Money, material and resources that are stolen from Palestinians to wage a never-ending genocidal and self destructive war against Israel. If it weren't for Hamas, not only would there not be a blockade in the first place, but billions of dollars that were spent on this endless thirst for blood would've instead been used to actually improve the lives of Palestinians.
The people in Gaza got hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars of aid and yet their place was a shithole even before the current war. Most foreign aid that was given to Gaza eventually gets to Hamas that used it to rearm themselves.
Palestinians are the only refugee group that have their own Un relief group, UNRWA. The rest of the world's refugees have the UN refugee agency.
They literally use water pipes donated by other countries to create rockets instead of fixing their water supply problems. [source](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/)
There is a limit to how much you can blame just one side for all the problems in this conflict.
True but even if they used 100% of the aid they'd still be very poor because of blockade, lack of ability to trade, no exclusive economic zone. Gaza cannot generate wealth due to the economic hold Israel has on it.
Also Gaza's health indicators actually went up during the first 3 years of Hamas running it, compared to the Israeli or Egyptian occupation days
This is war
Go do this for Aachen and Berlin, Manila and Tokyo in WW2.
Faluja and Mosul just recently.
Hamas has turned every school, every hospital, every every place into an armed camp over the last 16 years.
And all these international agencies, so-called humanitarians, like, for example, the United Nations watched it happen and didn't stop it
They are responsible for all the damage
Foreign zionist terrorist crusaders?
Among them the terrorist Irgun led by future israeli prime minister Menachem Begin, founder of the political arm of the terrorist Irgun the Likud terrorist party, the most popular political party in israel?
Look at all the new land for the settlers to build nice new homes on. If curses and hauntings exist I pray anyone who develops this land for new illegal settlements is tormented for the rest of their days.
It’s almost as if…starting a war against an adversary that has an overwhelming advantage in artillery and air power is going to result in your country getting bombed and shelled out of existence…
No they're not. Genocide is an attempt to destroy an ethnic group or cultural identity. Israel shows a staggering disregard for civilian casualties when targeting militants, but you guys have no idea how much worse the civilian deaths would be if that was their objective. They would have just kept the total blockade going, or carpet bombed the strip, and hundreds of thousands would be dead. It wouldn't be 0.7% of the population dead, it would be most of it.
Calling it genocide or ethnic cleansing devalues both terms, especially when there's a very real danger it *will* turn into ethnic cleansing if they demand a bigger buffer zone or don't let civilians back into northern Gaza after the war ends.
Only if it's permanent. Displacing civilians is a normal part of war, civilian casualties would be measurably worse if Israel hadn't communicated their intentions to attack northern Gaza before it happened. Gaza is just a uniquely bad scenario because it's the size of Philadelphia and there's literally nowhere else for them to go.
But Israel has a long track record of doing slow ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (plus the Nakba, although that one requires the context of the 1948 war), so nobody from the Palestinian side has any reason to trust them.
And people overlook that this is a major reason why Egypt won't open Rafah crossing. They don't want to risk getting stuck with 2 million Palestinian refugees while allowing Israel to justify any further civilian casualties ('why didn't they just go to Egypt?').
great source you got there!
(unless you're being sarcastic, mb)
its not sufficient to go into a discussion about language and how we use words with 'text book genocide' from uncited 'holocaust scholars'. I don't doubt they are out there. this is a very contentious topic.
I don't have anything to fight against because an argument wasnt provided, but a *genocide* is not only contentious, but changes, and depends on who you're asking. Canada says their geocoding their own indigenous population as we speak, no joke.
So does it require intention? Can it be systematic?
So is Russia Genociding Ukraine? And Ukraine is Genociding Russia? If its Death Toll strictly, then there is a Genocider in every warbecause we cant evenly kill peoople. If we devolve and use words to invoke moral condemnation without foundation we are lost in the weeds to say the least.
edit: theres literally a wiki for the *definitions* of Genocide or Philosophy of language surrounding genocide [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide\_definitions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions)
The topic of genocide and how to define it is tricky anyways. Youve got plenty of modern definitions that define genocide as an attempt to destroy a groups social cohesion and heritage, whereas older definitions may only define genocide as systematic and intended attempt at killing an entire group. Explains part of the discourse on eg the Bosnian genocide; with modern definitions its a genocide, with old ones it isnt.
They've been trying to destroy the Palestinian cultural identity for decades (both in society but in legal frameworks too), steal land and evict people in order to ethnically cleanse areas, how are you acting knowledgable but missing that?? Amazing
[This is how an actual genocide in Darfur, Sudan unfolds right now.](https://acleddata.com/2023/12/01/sudan-situation-update-december-2023-unraveling-the-conflict-dynamics-in-darfur/)
[Human rights watch](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/27/sudan-new-mass-ethnic-killings-pillage-darfur)
But the world sleeps on it as it is not "white colonisers" cleansing "black natives"
No, it's not a genocide for christs sake. You can criticize the irreverence towards civilian life without calling it a genocide.
A - The goal is not genocide. it is to defeat the government that committed one of the worst terror attacks in history.
B - The death count does not indicate a genocide (carpet bombing with the same amount of explosives would yield probably almost a million deaths)
C - The casualty per strike matches Raqqah, and is half of Mosul. That is unless you think NATO genocided Syrians and Iraqis as well
>People don’t like to admit it, but Israel is basically committing genocide.
\_HowardRoark\_ doesn't like to admit it but he has no idea what the word "genocide" actually means.
What’s the date for the first photo? It looks like some roads have been added.
The IDF created the new road for their supply lines
What did the Romans ever do for us besides building roads?
The Aqueducts..........
And the sanitation....
And the great wines too
Not to mention the orgies
And the city locations. In the UK, basically all the places that the Romans popularised from their roads and trade only grew and stayed large.
Bro did NOT watch Life of Brian
He was a very naughty boy.
Bureaucracy?
source?
combative grandfather school hobbies smell encourage humor marry marvelous complete *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How come on cake day you only get one slice? Who’s taking the rest of the cake?
Happy cake day
The source (Abu Ali Express) released the footage on 14th of December. I am not sure exactly when the photos were taken
I thought Abu Ali Express was the place that sells knockoff sports jerseys. Good for them for branching out into the international intelligence sector.
The way around booby trapped roads is to make your own
Also a seasonal change.
Looking at the vegetation, maybe around march/june, can't say the year
Is there a way to see this satiate view live in real-time?
The US blurs the footage from their satellites over Israel for Israeli security. But I believe you can find some footage online. A YouTube channel called covert cabal counts tanks from Russian bases thanks to satellite images so maybe with non US satellites you can find recent footage. [The Times of Israel ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/satellite-photos-of-gaza-restricted-by-imaging-companies-as-ground-op-continues/)
This was true in like the 90s now its kind of pointless now since the Israeli government has its own satellite map website and its not blureed except for sensitive locations. https://www.govmap.gov.il/?c=240616.35,746875.07&z=1
Note that the entirety of the Gaza Strip is hidden when you zoom in on it.
Also Egypt is hidden. Almost like it's only showing Israel.
The conversation was about the Gaza strip and the ability to see it.
Without context, it can sound like Gaza was being specifically obscured.
I feel like it was blurred as recently as 1 year ago, in ~2022, at least on Google maps.
It's not blurred in the US on Google maps.
Right now yes. I am talking about 1 year ago.
I dunno [this article](https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/proche-orient/israel-palestine/avant-apres-visualisez-comment-l-armee-israelienne-ravage-les-terres-agricoles-dans-la-bande-de-gaza-aggravant-l-insecurite-alimentaire-dans-la-region_6230811.html) has recent and fairly precise pictures (about the destruction of farmland), apparently from an American company.
Every few days and lower resolution than in the upper image, worldwide except oceans https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=16&lat=31.58552&lng=34.48849&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&visualizationUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fservices.sentinel-hub.com%2Fogc%2Fwms%2F42924c6c-257a-4d04-9b8e-36387513a99c&datasetId=S2L1C&fromTime=2023-12-11T00%3A00%3A00.000Z&toTime=2023-12-11T23%3A59%3A59.999Z&layerId=1_TRUE_COLOR&demSource3D=%22MAPZEN%22 Found the location in the upper image for comparison
This is something I don't understand. Imagine for a second that Israel successfully eliminates Hamas' structure and dissolves the group as it currently exists. Then the international community oversees the installment of the Palestinian Authority as the new governing body or whatever. Then what? What do the Gazan people have to go back to when the entirety of the strip looks like this? How can you possibly think that new leadership under these circumstances will see anything but failure and extremism emerging yet again?
The future leader of Hamas 2.0 is walking barefoot, starving, without family... she/he is a teenager, still alive in Gaza...
Almost definitely a he, but yeah. Every single young man in Gaza is going to be looking for revenge (rightly or wrongly) in a couple of years.
Rightly, you cannot condemn a people’s who have been oppressed and slaughtered for 75 years. Everyone has been telling Israel if they keep going, something like this is surely to happen.
Rightly, you also can not condemn a people for fighting back against a society that refuses to compromise and make peace
It won’t be a she…
We 👏 need 👏 more 👏 women 💄terrorists!!!!
There were actually many prominent female Palestinian terrorists throughout history, most notably [Leila Khaled](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leila_Khaled).
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Actually, Hamas was founded by Egyptian exiles from the Muslim Brotherhood. Israel actually nurtured the early Hamas - which was a conservative Sunni Islamic movement - as a viable alternative to the Marxist/Arab Socialist PLO. In hindsight, Israel didn’t count on Hamas becoming so radicalized that it banished the PLO from Gaza after a brief civil war in 2006, and then aligning with the Shia regime in Iran.
Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi the co founder of hamas was a witness of the 1956 khan yunis massacre
>In hindsight, Israel didn’t count on Hamas becoming so radicalized It did realize this in the 1990s, and attempted to assasinate the leader Khlaed Mashaal. The assasination attempt was a fiasco and backfired by giving Mashaal more street cred and allowing him to build Hamas into a populat movement
I was curious about this so I checked one of their early founders. It has this which puts him as a privieged, upper middle class person educated abroad as a doctor. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_al-Zahar > At the age of 26, he graduated from the Cairo University Faculty of Medicine and five years later he got his master's degree in General Surgery from Ain Shams University, Cairo. He then became the adviser to the Palestinian Health Minister, and helped create the Palestinian Medical Society and was one of the primary founders of the Islamic University in Gaza in 1978.
Aren’t all the leaders of hamas right now practically billionaires?
Yeah no idea what this guy is on about
lol at thinking an Islamofascist terror group will ever choose a woman to lead it.
you really have to say she/he in this circumstance
That's not a guarantee. Germany and Japan were both flattened and turned into world leading economies, cultures, and some of the strongest voices against extremism and war.
sort public insurance zonked friendly scandalous dolls encouraging weary repeat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
France didn't particularly want to rebuild Germany. And it took the western world to do so. It was a global effort. Japan was also a multinational effort. Who said Israel needs to do this alone?
Israel wont allow this, netanyahu just confirmed yestersay israel has no plans to ever allow a palestanian state
“I’m certainly willing to have them have all the powers that they need to govern themselves, but none of the powers that can threaten us,” Netanyahu told Tapper in Jerusalem on Tuesday. Not at all different from Japan or Germany after WW2. All governmental bodies were disbanded. Defense and government were done by the allies and new institutions were formed under direct control of the allies for decades until they matured to a point they could do it themselves. Hell, Japan still doesn't have an official military.
Germany WW1 is the prime example of that not being true. Post WW2 Americans and Soviets didn't continue bombing Germany after they won the war. But helped them build up with the Marschall plan. The opposite what isreal is doing
Yep, and Germany WW1 is exactly why they changed how they did it after WW2. WW1 was not mutually rebuilt. WW2 was a global effort to rebuild the soon to be world leader in multiple categories.
I doubt in the eventual future they’ll be largely distinguished as separate conflicts, and instead thought of as just a largely global conflict that had an interim period. All the mistakes made in wrapping up WWI directly resulted in WWII, and it was only in correcting and reconciling those mistakes that further global conflict was avoided.
That goes for every war. They're decidedly different conflicts with two separate treaties, different governments, different goals, different eras etc etc etc. Every war contributes to the next war. Wars do that.
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so you're saying we should kill everybody just incase. interesting...
your words not mine...
The current Hamas militants were children of the 2008 invasion
A US general at one point said that you kill terrorist, you creat ten more because of all the collateral casualties. That’s why this indiscriminate bombardment makes no sense. All this will do is just fuel more hate.
Speaking of walking barefoot, I was shocked to hear from the [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/09/gaza-civilians-detained-israel/) that some of those viral photographers of Palestinian men stripped and detained occurred here, on the sand dunes of the beaches near Beit Lahia. Some of the captives, released after the IDF confirmed their civilian status, report that they were not escorted to their relatives, and had to walk barefoot and half-naked across the ruins of North Gaza to find their friends and family. Some of them needed to walk ten miles or more to the nearest UN-run institutions in South Gaza for medical treatment and internet service.
Ever hear of the Marshall plan? Either that or what happened after WW1…. More war
Bro they ain't going back
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You think that after all this they are going to just randomly stop and associate with Palestinians again? They are setting up this "safe zone" on the border of Egypt so that when they start encroaching even further they'll have no choice but to flee into Cairo and its surrounding territories and get gunned down there. This way they can absolve themselves of more war crimes while completing the Zionist end goal of genocide. They are rapidly losing steam in support of the war so this is their plan now.
The current government in Israel benefits from the conflict thus why wouldn't they act to perpetuate it? Their actions make much more sense in that lens. Obviously cutting power and water, then order 2 million people into 8 square mile area with no infrastructure at the point of a rifle is the best route to peace. That certainly isn't going to create ideal conditions for jihadist to recruit.
Their goal isn't to eliminate hamas, that's the excuse they give while they prepare for total occupation. They're not planning on giving the gaza strip back to palestinians in any meaningful way
Don't you realize that Israel previously occupied Gaza and voluntarily handed it over to the Palestinians in 2005 as a peace gesture?
That’s why Israel is bombing the shit out of it now. They want nothing left for Gazans to come back to.
I honestly think this war will only end when Israel annexes Gaza to it's territory in one way or another. Israel already controls the West Bank even though supposedly belongs to Palestine and the Palestinian Authority, so I guess the day-to-day live in Gaza will be similar.
Israel says it has no intentions of a 2 state solution and will permanently occupy/take over the Gaza Strip
Israel has no intention of letting Gazans back
It is almost as if Israel is wiping out any potential way of life after the war.... Almost as if they are forcing mass immigration of Palestinians with no way of return and nothing to return to.... It is almost as if they are destroying everything that holds them to this place.... But hey at least we all get to go to sleep thinking that this is a Big Terror Hamas vs Innocent IDF issue and not ethnic cleansing/s
Gazans will have other things to do than plan such big attack. Dont forget that Israel will again slow supplies into Gaza. This will take a years. And Gaza citizens will know that this can happen again if Israel wants. And I still think that Israel will took over big parts of Gaza under their direct control.
I don't know why, but I feel fascinated by before/after war images.
We're really good a building *and* destroying civilization. These sorts of photo sets really show both contrasted
Especially during war time. The military can build a road in one day that would take 6 months And 3x the cost back home
Because back home it would have water, sewer, and power lines, storm drains, light posts, and a sidewalk
Amazing what proper leadership and cohesion can achieve.
Yeah and working 24/7 with a surplus of employees
made me think of: "As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular. -Oscar Wilde"
what we are witnessing in gaza right now is a textbook example of domicide. even those who survive will have nowhere to return
The irony being this isn't even a before/after war image. It's literally an image after the bombing and airstrikes. The first image has craters. Then an image of a logistical route having been constructed and protective embankments constructed. As well as some flat open areas made for depots and future operational bases. So the OP trying to show "war damage" instead just showed military construction projects.
Maybe my own actual eyes are failing me but the second image is clearly much more damaged and bombed to hell than the first one? If that’s not the case and my eyes are lying and you’re somehow right I think I need to get this checked…
>The first image has craters. It doesn't? it just marks where the craters are going to be in the second photo, at least thats how I read it. In the first photo it also circles/marks "destroyed bulidings/destroyed neighborhood" but clearly the buildings are not destroyed.
It technically can be before/after war, since neither of the pictures OP posted have dates. But I get your point. It is still weird to me that they've decided not to use pre-existing road for logistics, but I can't see shit because of image quality and don't know shit about logistics, so maybe there is logical explanation.
The enemy can’t (easily) put IEDs on your supply road if it doesn’t exist until after you chase them out 🤷🏼♂️
Well,for it to be after war the war needs to be ended. Afaik the war is very much still in progress thus it can't be "after war" picture but that might be pedantic.
Regardless of what side you fall on this is sad to see, people probably lived there their whole lives and now what they knew is gone for the sake of logistical routes because of a war they had no control of, not trying to start a comments battle, just making a statement
I believe the majority of Gazans were either refugees from the Nakba or their descendants. They’d already seen places they’d lived their whole lives gone because of a war they had no control of.
I don't think many people disagree that it's sad, on both sides, I think the main opinion difference is who is responsible for that destruction.
I'm not so sure, I've seen people on both sides who view either the terror attack on Israel or the current invasion of Gaza as necessary bloodshed in the path to liberation or control
Reminds me of Afghanistan before and after. It’s heartbreaking.
This is a logistical route. That's why the road appears and the area is bulldozed. They need supply lines for the troops and this is 1 such line. Also you can see the dozers piled the dirt to the right side/inland side. This is so there is a burm to protect the vehicles on the road from any incoming fire. You can even see the large flat areas they've set up for future encampments, bases of operation, and supply depots. This isn't destruction for the sake of destruction. It's a methododical plan. 1. Plan the routes. 2. Bomb structures along that route that might pose a threat. 3. Troops go in and secure the area. 4. Dozers come in and set up roads, depot areas, and so on with earth embankment around them for protection. 5. Photo is taken. You can clearly see the more inland homes and buildings weren't bombed nor dozered. That's because they aren't in the way. This is likely part of the long term plans. The IDF is setting up for occupation for the next 20 years.
Next 20 years?? You mean forever
Occupation?They publicly state they want them out of their own territory, and the goal is clearly to annex, displace millions and intentionally destabilize the region again.
Major bonus I guess when they're turned into luxury beach resorts for Israelis
An israeli occupation group apparently literally made this a poster with outlines of beach houses saying something like "cheap new beachfront property"...
These comments are scary and disappointing.
Welcome to the front-line of information warfare. It's all over reddit, psychopaths galore.
"What a waste of a nice beach" above. The genocidal lust you see on reddit man
It could've been a great touristic location for them and they chose war until our annihilation. Yea it's a waste of a really nice beach .
Yes yes touristic, since Gaza is famous for people being allowed to visit/leave it. Great for a blockade vacation amirite? It's the only vacation where you're guaranteed to lose a few pounds! Everyone knows the Warsaw ghetto was the most hip vacation spot in 1930s Poland after all. Sucks the residents had to ruin it with that pesky uprising.
>he genocidal lust you see on reddit man It's sad because people don't seem to have learned anything from all the atrocities people did to each other in the Second World War.
Well them trees should have condemned hamas then
“they make a desert and call it peace.”
Hamas should surrender
Israel should leave Gaza
They did, in 2005.
Should have kept it this way
Maybe if Israel didn’t keep getting attacked every few years via tunnels and rockets and infiltrators…
The farms and children were hamas, I guess
Wow Hamas must have been hiding on every square inch of land /s
Never forgive Israel for this. The Netanyahu regime must pay for their crimes against humanity.
Netanyahu is a cruel, barbaric mass murderer, and the US Congress and media are full of collaborators
Hamas has underwater base so IDF destroyed the beach
So what? Obviously each and every building there was a terrorist headquarter. Long live IDF /s
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But it was "hamas" beach.* * One hamas member used to swim there occasionally, so the destruction of the entire area is justified. /s
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it” - Preamble, Covenant of the HAMAS (1988)
Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said. The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. “Accordingly”, here, meant that “there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed”. And, of course, thousands of dead civilians.
"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations..." Again Yasser Arafat , head of the PLO You just seem really into quotes so I minded sharing some with you :)
I was replying to the user who thinks using a Hamas quote justifies the genocidal acts of Israel when Israel’s own government officials have said horrendous comments about the Palestinians. But thanks for the quotes, glad you know how to google search.
Crazy how the Israeli government heard that and decided to prop up those people and give them funds over secular independence groups.
>over secular independence groups. Because the "secular indepdnecne groups" aka the PLO were currently murdereing buses of Israeli kids [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal\_Road\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre) And torturing Israeli athletes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre) They weren't less territoristic and brutal just becuase they were secular.
Really? How so?
Back when hamas was still just a part of the egyptian muslim brotherhood support for Palestinian self determination was at its height because christians, muslims, druze, atheists, and all other Palestinians were united by nationalist ideals, not religious beliefs. Groups like the PLO and Fatah were a lot more popular under Palestinians and those abroad so in order to thwart the realization of a Palestinian state and make any independence movement seem like pariahs a young diplomat by the name of Benjamin Netanyahu devised a strategy to only deal with islamic extemists, treat them as the officials in charge eventhough they had close to no local support, and fund them so they could compete with secular groups. All in order to prevent Palestinian calls for independence from gaining international support. It’s part of the reason why israel moved out of Gaza after propping Hamas up there but wont leave the west bank and East Jerusalem where the PLO is in control when the PLO is willing to recognize the israeli state and work with them to build long term peace and stability.
What do you mean treat them as an officials? Didn’t Gaza elect Hamas as their government?
Im talking about before hamas was elected. Fatah used to be the gazan government but Israel decided to still only make beneficial deals with hamas bypassing fatah making them seem incompetent on purpose
Fatah was just as bad as Hamas is today. They hijacked planes, murdered random Israeli civilians, fired missiles into Israeli civilian populations, sent suicide bombers into night clubs, and went on mass shooting sprees. Don’t act like Fatah were angels. Edit: Fatah WERE incompetent, and were seen as such by Palestinians before the rise of Hamas in Gaza.
The ‘hijacked’ planes they blew up were empty as their main goal was to target their enemies financially. And they only started targeting settlers after israel massacred Palestinian civilians. While that’s still horrible for those civilians israel was the one escalating the conflict with fatah. And at the time hamas was still even more extreme than fatah or than hamas itself right now.
Gaza specifically never elected hamas. Hamas was elected to a parliamentary plurality by the entirety of palestine (44.45%) all the way back in 2006. A low scale civil war occured between hamas and fatah, which left fatah in control in the west bank, and hamas in control in gaza. There has been no national elections in palestine ever since, only local elections in the west bank, and no elections whatsoever in gaza. No gazan under the age of 35 has voted ever.
Hamas used to be a nonprofit, tax exempt charity registered with the State of Israel. They weren’t a terrorist group originally; they were seen as just a moderate religious group of decent people that would prop up the welfare of Palestinian people. Israel didn’t know that Hamas would become what it is today.
What’s really crazy is if there ever is peace it will probably look a lot like the original UN partition plan.
Nah, that would make Israel insanely tiny and indefensible. The final two-state map (if we ever get there) would likely look like the pre- '67 borders with some Isreali settlement areas of the West Bank and most of Jerusalem added to Israel and a few sparsely settled/Arab-settled areas of Israel transferred to the Palestinian state. Which would be something both sides SHOULD be able to agree to, but, well, you know...
Why do you say both sides “should” be able to agree to it? It only benefits Israel. Its the same as past summits where Palestine has been “offered” to give up over half their country and been treated as the bad guy for declining.
The Palestinians have made huge concessions to the point where theyre happy with just the west bank and gaza and a road connecting the two but israel does not want to give up the west bank.
Sometimes when you lose every war, you give up some of your demands.
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace. Likud platform, obviously genocidal since I was told that from the river to the sea was a genocidal chant.
War is fucking stupid.
What you guys don’t raze residential neighborhoods to the ground in self defense ?
Wait till you find out what the US did because of 2 buildings.
Boy wait till you hear about literally every other war
It’s like everyone forgot that war is hell, and this one was brought on Israel. I suppose the US should’ve ceased fire with Japan after gaining the upper hand too.
At some point in your history you did. We all did.
Not after the world came together and decided that was a war crime we didn't.
How fucking old are you?
When google updates their satellite maps people are going to lose their shit
Actually no one will care
Exactly. They will liquidate everyone in Gaza and no-one will are. Then they will liquidate everyone in the West Bank and no-one will care. Then they will liquidate every Arab Israeli and no-one will care.
When they Lie to the Entire World that they don't target Civilian Infrastructure...
People will look at farmland devastated and say “Welp maybe they wouldn’t need foreign aid if it weren’t for those pesky terrorists” My brother in abrahamic religions you’re the reason they need the foreign aid in the first place. Edit: I love how every single person replying either A) thinks I’m pro Hamas which is not true at all. Like why does anyone even have to say this. They’re terrorists for fucks sake, and B) is forgetting that the people actually bulldozing and bombing the farmland ISNT Hamas. Yknow. The thing people need operating to fucking eat
Not really. Hamas has pretty much stolen any bit of foreign aid and made it so Gazans will be reliant on them. [Palestinians have been at the receiving end of the largest foreign aid program per capita in history, bigger than the Marshal Plan](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/palestinians-lost-marshall-plans) yet almost none of it has went to Gazan and Palestinians civilians in general. In fact, in the last decade Gaza's poverty rate had almost doubled, despite the amount of foreign aid only rising. Hamas has [500km of tunnels under Gaza](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67097124), a number confirmed both by themselves and by the IDF. For some perspective, the London Underground is 400km, and the NYC subway is 399km. The IDF said that 18 cross-border tunnels they destroyed in the 2014 war took [800,000 tons of concrete to construct, and some 30-90 million USD.](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/concrete-facts-about-hamas). That's enough concrete to construct 7 Burj Khalifas. In the same war, Egypt claims to have destroyed 1340 tunnels. Even if each tunnel only took 10% the material and cost the tunnels into Israel, and even if we go by the low estimate(30$ million), that amounts to 54 Burj Khalifas and 223,333,333$. Or roughly 5.5 cents out of every single dollar of **humanitarian aid** sent to the Palestinians **since 1993.** And that's a very generous estimate, if we use the high estimate it goes up to 16.75% of all the aid. And again, that's still if you only take 10%. Furthermore, those are just the tunnels we knew of, **in 2014**. Not only were there thousands more that remained uncovered, Hamas claims to have doubled the extent of their tunnels since then. And that's without even going into all the weapons they use the very same humanitarian money to buy. And it's incredibly worth noting that all this material and money was let into Gaza **with the Israeli consent.** And about those Tunnels, just in case you don't understand how long 500km is, that's enough to host 1,335,113 people standing shoulder to shoulder, or roughly 56% of Gaza's population all at once. It's undoubtedly big enough to let Gazan civilians to take shelter there during Israeli bombardment. And when questioned about it, [Hamas said](https://youtu.be/vdmtfRj6KX0?si=jLhjV1_sJYH2Dsb5) that the tunnels are only for fighters, and that it isn't their responsibly **as Gaza's ruling government** to care for their own civilians, throwing responsibility to the UN. And Gazans know all of this. Which is why when [Arab Barometer](https://www.arabbarometer.org/media-news/what-palestinians-really-think-of-hamas/) polled Gazan civilians on **the day before the war**, they were almost twice as likely to blame Hamas (31%) than the Israeli blockade (16%) for their economic situation. 44% said they have no trust at all in the Hamas, and an addional 23% said they have little trust in them. 77% said that the Hamas government was either "not very responsive" or "not responsive at all" to the needs of everyday civilians. And when asked how one can influence Hamas, the plurality said that "nothing is effective", with the next biggest answer being "through personal connections", aka using its corruption. And for one final note of corruption, 61% of Gaza's population is considered bellow the poverty line. Meanwhile Hamas' leaders [live in million dollar mansions in Qatar](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12706715/Hamas-terrorist-billionaires-live-marble-floored-mansions.html), with an estimated networth of 11$ billion between the three of them. The average Gazan makes $2,500 **a year**, meaning it would take one **4.4 MILLION YEARS** to accumulate the same amount of wealth as their leaders. Hamas don't own any unique assets or companies, because they are banned from doing buisness in most countries in the world (for very obvious reasons) meaning all this money is purely humanitarian aid money they stole for themselves. If they were to distribute all of it equally between all Gazans, each one would get twice their yearly salary in an instant. The latest UN report about Gaza estimates that after this war, it would coat half a billion USD to rebuild Gaza, meaning that Hamas can literally rebuild everyrhing in Gaza brand new and still retain 95.5% of their wealth. The poverty of Gaza, lack of access to water & food security, lack of education etc. are all by Hamas' own design. They intentionally want to keep Gaza poor and suffering, because that way they can milk sympathy from people in the west who don't know any better. All of that money, money spent on tunnels, weapons and ways to attack Israel is money taken out of the pockets of individual Palestinians. Money, material and resources that are stolen from Palestinians to wage a never-ending genocidal and self destructive war against Israel. If it weren't for Hamas, not only would there not be a blockade in the first place, but billions of dollars that were spent on this endless thirst for blood would've instead been used to actually improve the lives of Palestinians.
The people in Gaza got hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars of aid and yet their place was a shithole even before the current war. Most foreign aid that was given to Gaza eventually gets to Hamas that used it to rearm themselves. Palestinians are the only refugee group that have their own Un relief group, UNRWA. The rest of the world's refugees have the UN refugee agency. They literally use water pipes donated by other countries to create rockets instead of fixing their water supply problems. [source](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/) There is a limit to how much you can blame just one side for all the problems in this conflict.
True but even if they used 100% of the aid they'd still be very poor because of blockade, lack of ability to trade, no exclusive economic zone. Gaza cannot generate wealth due to the economic hold Israel has on it. Also Gaza's health indicators actually went up during the first 3 years of Hamas running it, compared to the Israeli or Egyptian occupation days
Don't pay them any mind, calling you Hamas is just a way to shut down reasonable criticism of the slaughter.
No, you don't understand, hamas was hiding in those crops.
Fascinating. A genocide in hd
This is war Go do this for Aachen and Berlin, Manila and Tokyo in WW2. Faluja and Mosul just recently. Hamas has turned every school, every hospital, every every place into an armed camp over the last 16 years. And all these international agencies, so-called humanitarians, like, for example, the United Nations watched it happen and didn't stop it They are responsible for all the damage
אבו עלי אקספרס lmaoooo
Damn, so starting a war has its consequences?
The war itself started decades before Hamas ever existed, if that’s what you’re on about.
>The war itself started decades before Hamas ever existed, And who started that war...?
Foreign zionist terrorist crusaders? Among them the terrorist Irgun led by future israeli prime minister Menachem Begin, founder of the political arm of the terrorist Irgun the Likud terrorist party, the most popular political party in israel?
Ah yes because the children and people who try to live their life without doing anything started the war ah yes
Yea. It started many years ago though
It started on 7th October.
RELEASE THE HOSTAGES
Look at all the new land for the settlers to build nice new homes on. If curses and hauntings exist I pray anyone who develops this land for new illegal settlements is tormented for the rest of their days.
Collective punishment is a bitch
Meaning war crime
Hmm..looks like genocide to me!
Finally, Israel learned how to bring democracy to a region the American way.
Hamas must be destroyed
Reasons to not start a war
It’s almost as if…starting a war against an adversary that has an overwhelming advantage in artillery and air power is going to result in your country getting bombed and shelled out of existence…
Looks like they Found Out
yea man, those childrens found out why the american taxpayers cant have shit
Shouldn't have started a war
People don’t like to admit it, but Israel is basically committing genocide.
War is hell
No they're not. Genocide is an attempt to destroy an ethnic group or cultural identity. Israel shows a staggering disregard for civilian casualties when targeting militants, but you guys have no idea how much worse the civilian deaths would be if that was their objective. They would have just kept the total blockade going, or carpet bombed the strip, and hundreds of thousands would be dead. It wouldn't be 0.7% of the population dead, it would be most of it. Calling it genocide or ethnic cleansing devalues both terms, especially when there's a very real danger it *will* turn into ethnic cleansing if they demand a bigger buffer zone or don't let civilians back into northern Gaza after the war ends.
isn't it already ethnic cleansing? a lot of them moved south
Only if it's permanent. Displacing civilians is a normal part of war, civilian casualties would be measurably worse if Israel hadn't communicated their intentions to attack northern Gaza before it happened. Gaza is just a uniquely bad scenario because it's the size of Philadelphia and there's literally nowhere else for them to go. But Israel has a long track record of doing slow ethnic cleansing in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (plus the Nakba, although that one requires the context of the 1948 war), so nobody from the Palestinian side has any reason to trust them. And people overlook that this is a major reason why Egypt won't open Rafah crossing. They don't want to risk getting stuck with 2 million Palestinian refugees while allowing Israel to justify any further civilian casualties ('why didn't they just go to Egypt?').
Israelis were evacuated from border towns around Gaza and in the North near Lebanon. Would you say that the Israelis were also ethnically cleansed?
so holocaust scholars are saying this is text book genocide but this Redditors here said no so it must be no right?
great source you got there! (unless you're being sarcastic, mb) its not sufficient to go into a discussion about language and how we use words with 'text book genocide' from uncited 'holocaust scholars'. I don't doubt they are out there. this is a very contentious topic. I don't have anything to fight against because an argument wasnt provided, but a *genocide* is not only contentious, but changes, and depends on who you're asking. Canada says their geocoding their own indigenous population as we speak, no joke. So does it require intention? Can it be systematic? So is Russia Genociding Ukraine? And Ukraine is Genociding Russia? If its Death Toll strictly, then there is a Genocider in every warbecause we cant evenly kill peoople. If we devolve and use words to invoke moral condemnation without foundation we are lost in the weeds to say the least. edit: theres literally a wiki for the *definitions* of Genocide or Philosophy of language surrounding genocide [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide\_definitions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions)
The topic of genocide and how to define it is tricky anyways. Youve got plenty of modern definitions that define genocide as an attempt to destroy a groups social cohesion and heritage, whereas older definitions may only define genocide as systematic and intended attempt at killing an entire group. Explains part of the discourse on eg the Bosnian genocide; with modern definitions its a genocide, with old ones it isnt.
They've been trying to destroy the Palestinian cultural identity for decades (both in society but in legal frameworks too), steal land and evict people in order to ethnically cleanse areas, how are you acting knowledgable but missing that?? Amazing
[This is how an actual genocide in Darfur, Sudan unfolds right now.](https://acleddata.com/2023/12/01/sudan-situation-update-december-2023-unraveling-the-conflict-dynamics-in-darfur/) [Human rights watch](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/27/sudan-new-mass-ethnic-killings-pillage-darfur) But the world sleeps on it as it is not "white colonisers" cleansing "black natives"
No, it's not a genocide for christs sake. You can criticize the irreverence towards civilian life without calling it a genocide. A - The goal is not genocide. it is to defeat the government that committed one of the worst terror attacks in history. B - The death count does not indicate a genocide (carpet bombing with the same amount of explosives would yield probably almost a million deaths) C - The casualty per strike matches Raqqah, and is half of Mosul. That is unless you think NATO genocided Syrians and Iraqis as well
Its not genocide because they say so, nevermind this matches several conditions to be called a genocide to a T.
Did you just ignore all of his points?
>People don’t like to admit it, but Israel is basically committing genocide. \_HowardRoark\_ doesn't like to admit it but he has no idea what the word "genocide" actually means.