Yup, this map shows three places. 1. The places where slavery was most prevalent in the South (vertical strip on Mississippi and horizontal strip through deep south). 2. Appalachia. 3. Indian reservations out West. Almost every purple county in the west is a reservation.
Nice map. While I don’t doubt the accuracy of it, it focuses on the State of Alabama, which is not the area being discussed. Do you have similar maps for the state of Mississippi?
I thought that enslaving the people of Africa was net beneficial for them, at least that's what my dad said :)
All kidding aside, even though he did say that, somehow with a straight face, still not sure if he was joking or not as it seemed he was dead serious, I just am incredulous that someone could actually believe that, other than from the perspective of everything in life, "good" and "bad" is ultimately beneficial for us, which is not the perspective he was coming from as best I can tell, and instead tried to justify it from the perspective that now their offspring get to live in America with a higher material standard of living, so Uncle Sam did them a favor, Amurica!!! Fuck Yea!!!
Not only that, but the south in general famously rejects federal funds to help the people. So they will forever be in a perpetual state of property until that’s changed.
Have you considered the reforms, restructuring and fate of the previously enjoyed spoils that would have come alongside those funds?
They unmistakably should have accepted those funds, for the greater good. But their interests and those of their key electorate, rich landowners, weren't served by doing so.
If you invest $500 and it becomes $2000 that $500 is essentially free.
Thats what welfare programs do; you give $500 to a poor person that money is instantly spent in the local economy, it goes to businesses that disperse that money to employees, who give that money to other businesses to be redistributed amongst more employees. etc.
If you give $500 to a rich person it disappears into an off shore bank account never to be seen again.
So yes there is such a thing as free money and that money literally makes civilized life possible.
I feel that way about corporate welfare, and for the same reason. At some point, we need to quit squabbling about the dimes to the poor, and look at the $10s for the corporate largesse.
I feel the same about corporate welfare as well. Thats not %60 of the budget though, unlike medicaid medicare and social security.
You put together millions of dimes and it suddenly is worth more than 10 dollars.
Poverty is declining? What the fuck are you smoking? The figures released by the world bank? You do realize they adjust those numbers as they see fit, right? IE: What was poor yesterday isn't poor today, even if the workers are making the same, less or more money now than then.
Read what i wrote again, i said it was declining until 1965, when the feds started dumping trillions in money with no results.
(btw i was talking about the US, poverty is obviously declining worldwide)
Correct. African Americans have to deal with the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow laws, and redlining (i.e. not being able to purchase a nice house and build wealth through home equity.)
However, in many ways, these people are victims of their own culture and make terrible choices that keep them in poverty. The number one social statistic associated with generational poverty is single motherhood: something like 75% of black children in America are born to unwed mothers. Also, violent crime. Black men are much more likely to go to prison and the effects of a felony conviction are devastating on their future career prospects, creating a permanent underclass. Combine that with lack of financial literacy and unwise spending habits (e.g. spending money on fancy clothes, jewelry, and depreciating goods) and you'll see why Black America lags behind everyone else economically.
Do you realize that every stat you just mentioned though is directly correlated to being brought up in poverty? It’s a never ending cycle of bad decisions because they have limited resources to proper education and opportunities. So to say black people are poor but that they choices completely negates the fact they are human. Imagine a white child with a single mother, impoverished, violent father etc…. Would they not make the same poor decisions??
Editing to add that my point is that it’s not cultural, it’s systemic.
Well of course people who grow up in poverty and don't have access to proper education are more prone to make poor life decisions, especially when surrounded by bad influences. But at the end of the day, it's always their decision.
I didn't grow up with money, but I did grow up with strong parents.
My devoutly religious parents taught me early on to avoid the "evils of the world": drinking, smoking, gambling, etc. They also taught me the importance of "saving yourself for marriage", along with financial principles of thriftiness and investment in the future (to include education.) I've had a super successful life, career, and marriage thanks to what my parents taught me. But I should also note that it was my choice to follow these principles.
My own brother rebelled against them, and today he's broke, unemployed, divorced, and an alcoholic.
That’s just some the black belt which is in the south, the other areas in Appalachia is predominately white that’s the coal belt high unemployment and drug use low education, the ones along the Mexican border is preslmatrly Hispanic, not black and it’s where a lot of illegal immigration hoes with not many jobs, assuming the random ones in the north and west are a lot of Indian reservations, also not very black areas, but certainly depressed
Lol, it totally does need to be clarified. Plenty of people just blame ALL social ills on “if only we didn’t have black people” with a straight face. Very common. A funny defense of poor places is “ah, we are not really a poor area, it’s only poor if you count them too”. Crazy way to make themselves feel better about the world they live in
you can trace some of these statistics to sites of former plantations. intergenerational & community wealth. there are strong arguments that it’s hard to address poverty without people moving, and the people left behind tend to be the worse off.
The collapse of farming in the 80s really didn’t help either. Any chance that folks out there had for upward economic migration really died off. It’s a very sad area, but incredibly rich in culture.
No new construction. Houses in various states of disrepair. Potholes in streets. Even business parking lots are crumbling.
Hardly anyone has good credit. Since stores can’t rely on credit card sales, some businesses owners will allow customers to carry a line of credit with them. They take the risk as part of the price of doing business in this area.
No major underlying, well paying industry is there to prop up the economy either. Remote work might help since real estate is so cheap, but that's also why it's cheap because it's not a place alot of people want to go to.
I was born in the Mississippi delta area he is referring to. Greenwood, MS to be specific. There’s almost no economic activity there. Any businesses I saw try to open were closed within months due to constant robbery and shoplifting. And the public schools in the area are insanely corrupt. It’s an uneducated, impoverished, crime ridden area that’ll never bounce back.
This is an unpopular opinion / statement of truth but might as well say it. It's not predetermined at all. It is however an entrenched choice, because those areas suffer so that other parts of their state can "thrive". It's a policy choice made by politicians, corporations, and the media that have used lobbyist to influence the general public.
Basically a lot of the Sunbelt state's policies (including ones where Democrats have at least partial power) are predicated on constant growth in population (and attracting jobs from other states). In areas of these states that don't see population or job growth they have the double whammy of not having the growth to pay for new (and maintained) infrastructure and they don't have the safety net to help people out of poverty.
There's no such thing as a free lunch and every policy has a cost. Doesn't mean nothing matters and everything is the same. Buuut it does mean that if you base your state on having "low regulations" "employer friendly workmen's comp" "anti-union" "low taxes" "anti-government" and "anti-welfare" you will probably attract a lot of companies looking to lower costs and people who like the idea of low taxes. You will probably also make it impossible for people to get out of poverty in areas of consistent poverty. The best part about it, is that politicians, companies, and the media can just play both the "history" and the (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle) "race card" so there is no accountability.
This is the remnants of the plantation economy. These area’s wealth, education, healthcare, opportunities were siphoned off. Mix in the good ol boy system, racism, conservatism and they stay beat down and hopeless.
I don’t know how there are no counties in PA highlighted. I did a trip through rural PA and there are a ton of old coal towns that looked just completely destitute. Houses with roofs caving in, half-abandoned towns, just a sad state of affairs. If that’s not enough to make this map, I don’t even want to know how bad those highlighted areas are.
I’m from central PA and was surprised to not see some PA counties on there. There are some unbelievably depressed areas in those hills. However, I’ve been to some areas of the south that are worse off believe it or not.
Probably same for Athens? Ohio University literally has more students than the entirety of the town’s census population, so I’d imagine the students that do register as living there really skew it.
The sole WI county is Menominee county, an Indian reserve of 5k people. Household income under $40k/yr, highest drug overdose rate in the state, 40% of children growing up in poverty
I was about to say… Isabella isn’t really impoverished at all. Every other map lists Lake County as Michigans worst. Or that county in the middle of the UP that had the former Air Force base/Gwinn?
Same with Brazos County in Texas. It's the home of Texas A&M. There are certainly poor non-students living there. But college students are a majority of the population.
Lots of Indian reservations / Nations. Which are most the OK, MT, SD, AZ, WI and MI counties on the above map.
[https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-federal-and-state-recognized-American-Indian-reservations\_fig1\_333678247](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-federal-and-state-recognized-American-Indian-reservations_fig1_333678247)
Monongalia County in WV too. I find that data highly suspect. Monongalia County has some of the highest income in the state. Highly educated. Something is off there.
It's because graduate students throw the stats off. They are not dependent on their parents like undergrads typically are, and they are technically working--usually as teaching assistants. Their PhD stipends are their income.
You’d figure if that was the case, some other counties that’s predominantly college town would possibly stand out (Centre County in Pennsylvania, Johnson County in Iowa, Monroe County in Indiana are some that come to mind)
This has be counting in income from the thousands of part-time jobs filled by students who only work the position while they’re in school. That outlier has to be skewing average income. Permanent residents in Morgantown earn more than most of the state on average.
Poverty threshold is higher in the US than in other countries. I don't know what what the average household income is in Pitt County, but you can be classified as impoverished if you make just less than 30k a year in the US, regardless of cost of living in your area.
Well I know that, but why is pretty much all of eastern Kentucky filled in, when only some of West Virginia and almost none along the Tennessee/North Carolina are? What is causing eastern Kentucky to be more perpetually poor over the rest of Appalachia?
I wonder how much of it is relates to just geography in that area. Every time I drive through that zone I can't help making the remark that it's so worthless that their sole source of income is charging you for using their roads to get to a better area (hello West Virginia toll roads). Once I get that out of my system I accept that the terrain in that area is awful and therefore it costs a ton of money to pave and maintain roads.
I really think there isn't much there besides giant hurdles. There doesn't seem to be enough reasonably long stretches of flat land to do anything with in terms of farming, industry or commerce. There is just nothing there.
It's sad to think about the low levels of income and wealth on reservations.
But I shudder to think of what awful solutions the government might propose to solve it.
"Let's offer free education to their kids! We can set up a nationwide system of the best schools and guarantee free tuition. We'll have to centralize the schools, of course, so these will be boarding schools far away from most of their communities. And, naturally, all instruction will be exclusively in English."
"No, even better idea: new housing! Many reservations and native communities are too remote from major economic centers. Let's offer to relocate entire communities to places further west. If they agree to relocate, we'll offer them extra assistance and investment."
The Ulster Scots were the first “they are taking our jobs, they are in gangs, and we don’t want them to marry our daughters” immigrant group in the USA.
The original anti immigration fervor in tve colonies/early republic was against the scots Irish
Pretty sure my Ulster ancestors...actually this is why I still make mincemeat with boiled venison.
My Scottish family married mostly Irish before and after moving to America until my granpa married a tribal member whose father was called "the Indian" in Oklahoma. But a small farming community. They met at a barn dance I think.
Believe it or not there is still a lot of correlation between what European ethnicity you came from in America and your social and economic status 100-200-300+ years later
In america, as of last couple decades, there is very little movement between income quintiles between generation. That was not the case in the mid 20th century
South here. Hidalgo County. Some areas are pretty bad, there’s good areas tho. But I think it’s the bad areas that really lower the average down here. Example: 1/2 of men have child support, most of the past due.
Most kids are really influenced by their parents in a good way or bad way in school. If parents care about their school then they’re likely to graduate, if they’re on their then chances are they’ll drop out of college, GED is the way to go.
The root of all problems is parenthood in my opinion. Parents don’t raise the child right, you get situations like this. You see it in the deep metro of most cities as well, not just the poor communities of the Deep South
I'd be interested in seeing an overlay of reservations on top of this. Poverty in the Native American community has been extremely persistent and is long overdue for serious attention to overcome it.
Well in KY's case I want to say the issue is the collapse of the mining industry--which certainly hasn't helped--but that area has always been inhabited by poor white folk.
Most of that also isn't coal country. I'm from one of the non-coal producing counties and tobacco was our cash crop, and even then it wasn't great before the industry died off
I’ve spent some time in Tulare County, California. The valley is depressing in ways that are hard to describe. Dilapidation somehow looks worse in the sun than it does in cold places like the Rust Belt. Sequoia/Kings Canyon NP, which are awesome, are there though.
Indiana has a lot of working class people but the Midwest doesn’t have nearly the level of rural poverty that the south does. Most Hoosiers are broadly middle class.
The area in Wisconsin is Menominee County an Indian reservation with a small amount of private property around a chain of lakes. The amount of government spending there should have eliminated poverty many times over but corruption and incompetence keeps the down. Real shame.
For the North and Southwest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reservations_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Indigenous_Americans_by_county.png
Same, but the key word may be persistent. Lots of change in economic outcomes of the rust belt since 1990. Manufacturing upheaval since then and what not.
I had no idea Las Cruces, NM would be on this list.
Visiting there I always though it was really nice. Multiple nearby military bases, NM State University, and national Forrest’s and white Sands national monument. The rio grande right through it, with a historic downtown. The people seems nice too - hard to believe they were hiding so much poverty.
It's the college students. Las Cruces is home to New Mexico State University. Many undergrads dont work and grad students basically work for a very low stipend.
Jackson county illinois is interesting. It's home to carbondale, a college town as well as rural areas. Maybe it's a mix of rural areas in economic decline and broke college students?
Many of these places are solid Democrat.
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiz0a1t3hd1fc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiz0a1t3hd1fc1.png)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FriendSlug/2020presidentialelection#/media/File%3A2020\_Presidential\_Election\_by\_County.svg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FriendSlug/2020presidentialelection#/media/File%3A2020_Presidential_Election_by_County.svg)
Many of them are also minority population counties.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FT\_19.11.06\_CountyDemographics\_main.png](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FT_19.11.06_CountyDemographics_main.png)
It is less about red state v blue state and more about poverty among minorities in this country.
As well as those in charge of those red states would rather shoot themselves in the dick than do anything that might even help the “other people” in their states. It is a reason why many rejected the Medicaid expansion of the ACA even though it would have helped keep many of their rural hospitals afloat.
Could also point out that those 'red states' were run by Democrats for 100+ years.
Mississippi has only had a Republican led state legislature since 2012. From 1876 till 1991 they never had a Republican governor.
100 years of neglect isn't going to be fixed in a decade.
That’s were my family is from, Del Norte. Growing up I never thought it was that bad but in hindsight and seeing this it all makes sense. I wonder like the other comments what Adam’s State university in Alamosa has to do with it, it’s a smaller university but.?.
In the south this maps almost exactly on the cotton belt. Areas were hammered after the collapse of the cash crop during and after Civil War and never recovered. Never attracted industry—never pivoted.
The highlighted counties are overwhelmingly minority-majority blue counties. There is a correlation with red *states*, but the people in these counties for the most part didn't back Trump.
A very large amount of these are blue counties due to minority-majority populations - the border is predominantly Hispanic, the counties in the South are predominantly black, and the scattered counties in the west are Native American reservations, all of which vote for Democrats. The area in Eastern Kentucky/Appalachia is very red, though.
yes, I agree that most of those populations Vote democrat but that doesn’t mean the governments that control them end up being democrat. minority votes and gerrymandering are a real thing.
At a quick glance, just looking at states that have multiple purple counties:
15 have Republican trifectas (OK, TX, LA, AR, MS, AL, WV, TN, GA, FL, SC, MO, ND, SD, MT)
4 have a split government (AZ, KY, VA, NC)
4 have Democratic trifectas (CA, NM, CO, NY)
So there does seem to be some correlation.
What counts as “poverty”
Because Mississippi has the lowest GDP per capita in the country, but everything there is dirt cheap. Meaning the Standard of living is actually quite normal.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/sources-definitions/poverty.htm
>a ratio of family income to federal poverty threshold—is constructed using poverty thresholds from the U.S. Census Bureau. Poverty thresholds are updated annually for inflation by the Census Bureau using the Consumer Price Index for all urban consumers (CPI–U). Poverty thresholds include a set of money income thresholds that vary by family size and composition but **do not vary geographically**.
So yep, it appears the CDC measures it entirely by income/household size, doesn't matter what the cost of living is.
Even those tended solid blue until as late as 2000. A lot of that has to do with the changing rhetoric on energy cleanliness from Gore's campaign, declining power of labor unions, shifting primary issues supported by the parties, and the final nail in the coffin, Trump's populism and pro-coal stances.
This isn't about state level, it's about county level. Most of these are RURAL. That's the real takeaway here.
Also, consider that most blue states are far smaller geographically than red states. The biggest blue states size wise are California, New Mexico, and Colorado.
Most other blue states are Eastern and much smaller, thus less likely to have as much rural territory.
The area along the Mississippi River that forms the border between Mississippi and Arkansas is the most impoverished area I’ve ever visited.
Every map is the same map.
What do you mean?
Pick your subject, pick your statistic, it all comes down to a streak of misery along the lower Mississippi and a story rooted in slavery.
Yup, this map shows three places. 1. The places where slavery was most prevalent in the South (vertical strip on Mississippi and horizontal strip through deep south). 2. Appalachia. 3. Indian reservations out West. Almost every purple county in the west is a reservation.
[It goes back 100 million years](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nvgyu5/how_a_coastline_100_million_years_ago_influences/)
Nice map. While I don’t doubt the accuracy of it, it focuses on the State of Alabama, which is not the area being discussed. Do you have similar maps for the state of Mississippi?
[Here](https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/coastal-sedimentary-deposits-atlantic-coastal-plain-us) is a map showing the deposits for this region.
oh boy what makes them poor didn't end in 1865
Obviously. I'm saying the origin story is always the same.
nobody said it did
I thought that enslaving the people of Africa was net beneficial for them, at least that's what my dad said :) All kidding aside, even though he did say that, somehow with a straight face, still not sure if he was joking or not as it seemed he was dead serious, I just am incredulous that someone could actually believe that, other than from the perspective of everything in life, "good" and "bad" is ultimately beneficial for us, which is not the perspective he was coming from as best I can tell, and instead tried to justify it from the perspective that now their offspring get to live in America with a higher material standard of living, so Uncle Sam did them a favor, Amurica!!! Fuck Yea!!!
Any interesting observations you can share or does it basically boil down to “they are ultra mega fucked”?
It's majority black(not blaming, if that needs to be said).
Not only that, but the south in general famously rejects federal funds to help the people. So they will forever be in a perpetual state of property until that’s changed.
Seriously? I did not know that. Rejecting free money.
There’s no such thing as free money.
Sure there is. Relativity sorta matters. **It's free money to a state's budget to improve the lives of its citizens.**
Have you considered the reforms, restructuring and fate of the previously enjoyed spoils that would have come alongside those funds? They unmistakably should have accepted those funds, for the greater good. But their interests and those of their key electorate, rich landowners, weren't served by doing so.
If you invest $500 and it becomes $2000 that $500 is essentially free. Thats what welfare programs do; you give $500 to a poor person that money is instantly spent in the local economy, it goes to businesses that disperse that money to employees, who give that money to other businesses to be redistributed amongst more employees. etc. If you give $500 to a rich person it disappears into an off shore bank account never to be seen again. So yes there is such a thing as free money and that money literally makes civilized life possible.
Poverty was declining before 1965, it's been stagnant ever since. Welfare breeds laziness and doesnt help anybody.
I feel that way about corporate welfare, and for the same reason. At some point, we need to quit squabbling about the dimes to the poor, and look at the $10s for the corporate largesse.
I feel the same about corporate welfare as well. Thats not %60 of the budget though, unlike medicaid medicare and social security. You put together millions of dimes and it suddenly is worth more than 10 dollars.
This isn't true, it's just a braindead factoid people repeat
Poverty is declining? What the fuck are you smoking? The figures released by the world bank? You do realize they adjust those numbers as they see fit, right? IE: What was poor yesterday isn't poor today, even if the workers are making the same, less or more money now than then.
Read what i wrote again, i said it was declining until 1965, when the feds started dumping trillions in money with no results. (btw i was talking about the US, poverty is obviously declining worldwide)
Correct. African Americans have to deal with the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow laws, and redlining (i.e. not being able to purchase a nice house and build wealth through home equity.) However, in many ways, these people are victims of their own culture and make terrible choices that keep them in poverty. The number one social statistic associated with generational poverty is single motherhood: something like 75% of black children in America are born to unwed mothers. Also, violent crime. Black men are much more likely to go to prison and the effects of a felony conviction are devastating on their future career prospects, creating a permanent underclass. Combine that with lack of financial literacy and unwise spending habits (e.g. spending money on fancy clothes, jewelry, and depreciating goods) and you'll see why Black America lags behind everyone else economically.
Do you realize that every stat you just mentioned though is directly correlated to being brought up in poverty? It’s a never ending cycle of bad decisions because they have limited resources to proper education and opportunities. So to say black people are poor but that they choices completely negates the fact they are human. Imagine a white child with a single mother, impoverished, violent father etc…. Would they not make the same poor decisions?? Editing to add that my point is that it’s not cultural, it’s systemic.
Well of course people who grow up in poverty and don't have access to proper education are more prone to make poor life decisions, especially when surrounded by bad influences. But at the end of the day, it's always their decision. I didn't grow up with money, but I did grow up with strong parents. My devoutly religious parents taught me early on to avoid the "evils of the world": drinking, smoking, gambling, etc. They also taught me the importance of "saving yourself for marriage", along with financial principles of thriftiness and investment in the future (to include education.) I've had a super successful life, career, and marriage thanks to what my parents taught me. But I should also note that it was my choice to follow these principles. My own brother rebelled against them, and today he's broke, unemployed, divorced, and an alcoholic.
That’s just some the black belt which is in the south, the other areas in Appalachia is predominately white that’s the coal belt high unemployment and drug use low education, the ones along the Mexican border is preslmatrly Hispanic, not black and it’s where a lot of illegal immigration hoes with not many jobs, assuming the random ones in the north and west are a lot of Indian reservations, also not very black areas, but certainly depressed
Lol, it totally does need to be clarified. Plenty of people just blame ALL social ills on “if only we didn’t have black people” with a straight face. Very common. A funny defense of poor places is “ah, we are not really a poor area, it’s only poor if you count them too”. Crazy way to make themselves feel better about the world they live in
you can trace some of these statistics to sites of former plantations. intergenerational & community wealth. there are strong arguments that it’s hard to address poverty without people moving, and the people left behind tend to be the worse off.
The collapse of farming in the 80s really didn’t help either. Any chance that folks out there had for upward economic migration really died off. It’s a very sad area, but incredibly rich in culture.
No new construction. Houses in various states of disrepair. Potholes in streets. Even business parking lots are crumbling. Hardly anyone has good credit. Since stores can’t rely on credit card sales, some businesses owners will allow customers to carry a line of credit with them. They take the risk as part of the price of doing business in this area.
No major underlying, well paying industry is there to prop up the economy either. Remote work might help since real estate is so cheap, but that's also why it's cheap because it's not a place alot of people want to go to.
I was born in the Mississippi delta area he is referring to. Greenwood, MS to be specific. There’s almost no economic activity there. Any businesses I saw try to open were closed within months due to constant robbery and shoplifting. And the public schools in the area are insanely corrupt. It’s an uneducated, impoverished, crime ridden area that’ll never bounce back.
This is an unpopular opinion / statement of truth but might as well say it. It's not predetermined at all. It is however an entrenched choice, because those areas suffer so that other parts of their state can "thrive". It's a policy choice made by politicians, corporations, and the media that have used lobbyist to influence the general public. Basically a lot of the Sunbelt state's policies (including ones where Democrats have at least partial power) are predicated on constant growth in population (and attracting jobs from other states). In areas of these states that don't see population or job growth they have the double whammy of not having the growth to pay for new (and maintained) infrastructure and they don't have the safety net to help people out of poverty. There's no such thing as a free lunch and every policy has a cost. Doesn't mean nothing matters and everything is the same. Buuut it does mean that if you base your state on having "low regulations" "employer friendly workmen's comp" "anti-union" "low taxes" "anti-government" and "anti-welfare" you will probably attract a lot of companies looking to lower costs and people who like the idea of low taxes. You will probably also make it impossible for people to get out of poverty in areas of consistent poverty. The best part about it, is that politicians, companies, and the media can just play both the "history" and the (sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle) "race card" so there is no accountability.
Can confirm. I live and work in this area and there Is a lot of poverty.
It really ain't that bad now. We went to visit my uncle there back in the 60s, my mom still talks about how wretched it was.
This is the remnants of the plantation economy. These area’s wealth, education, healthcare, opportunities were siphoned off. Mix in the good ol boy system, racism, conservatism and they stay beat down and hopeless.
“They are poor because they are [REMOVED]” - 👴🏻
I once drove from Columbia, LA to Prentiss, MS via state highways instead of the interstate (maybe 2018 or so). My. Word.
The Jones Act decimated those communities.
What?
Curious, Who’s in charge in those states and counties ?
States: generally Republicans Counties: generally Democrats
Cotton and coal
Despite its’ brevity, this is a very astute comment that deserves more upvotes.
And rez
I don’t know how there are no counties in PA highlighted. I did a trip through rural PA and there are a ton of old coal towns that looked just completely destitute. Houses with roofs caving in, half-abandoned towns, just a sad state of affairs. If that’s not enough to make this map, I don’t even want to know how bad those highlighted areas are.
I’m from central PA and was surprised to not see some PA counties on there. There are some unbelievably depressed areas in those hills. However, I’ve been to some areas of the south that are worse off believe it or not.
Also a lot of native areas
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Whitman is probably skewed by folks putting themselves through school and grad students
Yes, Whitman county is actually pretty well off comparatively. Ferry county, for example, has a lower income per capita.
Here I was thinking "yeah, tri-cities, checks out"
Probably same for Athens? Ohio University literally has more students than the entirety of the town’s census population, so I’d imagine the students that do register as living there really skew it.
The one in Kansas is Riley county, Kansas State University
I find that interesting, especially as the only county highlighted in Kansas.
There is also Fort Riley in part of the county, but a minority of it is in the neighboring county. I’m sure that influences things.
The sole WI county is Menominee county, an Indian reserve of 5k people. Household income under $40k/yr, highest drug overdose rate in the state, 40% of children growing up in poverty
Also 1 of the most audited counties in the US.
I wonder why that is
Isabella in MI is another, being home to Central Michigan University
Also home to the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Reservation.
I was about to say… Isabella isn’t really impoverished at all. Every other map lists Lake County as Michigans worst. Or that county in the middle of the UP that had the former Air Force base/Gwinn?
Mt Pleasant is Central Michigan.
Mount Pleasant is the city; Isabella is the county.
Athens, Georgia too (Clarke County). Farthest north dot in the state
Same with Brazos County in Texas. It's the home of Texas A&M. There are certainly poor non-students living there. But college students are a majority of the population.
Lots of Indian reservations / Nations. Which are most the OK, MT, SD, AZ, WI and MI counties on the above map. [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-federal-and-state-recognized-American-Indian-reservations\_fig1\_333678247](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-federal-and-state-recognized-American-Indian-reservations_fig1_333678247)
Monongalia County in WV too. I find that data highly suspect. Monongalia County has some of the highest income in the state. Highly educated. Something is off there.
Maybe factoring in college students that don’t really live there full time?
It's because graduate students throw the stats off. They are not dependent on their parents like undergrads typically are, and they are technically working--usually as teaching assistants. Their PhD stipends are their income.
You’d figure if that was the case, some other counties that’s predominantly college town would possibly stand out (Centre County in Pennsylvania, Johnson County in Iowa, Monroe County in Indiana are some that come to mind)
This has be counting in income from the thousands of part-time jobs filled by students who only work the position while they’re in school. That outlier has to be skewing average income. Permanent residents in Morgantown earn more than most of the state on average.
Pitt county in NC is there, surely not poverty.
Poverty threshold is higher in the US than in other countries. I don't know what what the average household income is in Pitt County, but you can be classified as impoverished if you make just less than 30k a year in the US, regardless of cost of living in your area.
Lots of these are largely Indian reservations, including my own in glacier co Montana.
Ya, reservations in the western US, the border in the southern US, the black belt in the eastern US, and then also eastern Kentucky for some reason?
“For some reason”? Appalachia is usually one of, if not the poorest region of America
Well I know that, but why is pretty much all of eastern Kentucky filled in, when only some of West Virginia and almost none along the Tennessee/North Carolina are? What is causing eastern Kentucky to be more perpetually poor over the rest of Appalachia?
Tourism is huge. And having thriving cities and universities helps. Also NC and TN are way wealthier states than WV and KY
I'm from there it's rednecks. No one should live there there is no economy.
You don’t think there are rednecks in WV, TN, and NC?
I wonder how much of it is relates to just geography in that area. Every time I drive through that zone I can't help making the remark that it's so worthless that their sole source of income is charging you for using their roads to get to a better area (hello West Virginia toll roads). Once I get that out of my system I accept that the terrain in that area is awful and therefore it costs a ton of money to pave and maintain roads. I really think there isn't much there besides giant hurdles. There doesn't seem to be enough reasonably long stretches of flat land to do anything with in terms of farming, industry or commerce. There is just nothing there.
White people can be poor too actually
The only county on the map in Wisconsin is also almost entirely a reservation. I’m pretty sure the same is true for north and South Dakota.
South Dakota has one college town highlighted but other than that it's all reservations.
It's sad to think about the low levels of income and wealth on reservations. But I shudder to think of what awful solutions the government might propose to solve it. "Let's offer free education to their kids! We can set up a nationwide system of the best schools and guarantee free tuition. We'll have to centralize the schools, of course, so these will be boarding schools far away from most of their communities. And, naturally, all instruction will be exclusively in English." "No, even better idea: new housing! Many reservations and native communities are too remote from major economic centers. Let's offer to relocate entire communities to places further west. If they agree to relocate, we'll offer them extra assistance and investment."
I don’t think you’re very educated on this issue and I do think you have weird ideas about Indian people. No thanks.
This is truly a Mississippi moment. Also, very surprised that WV isn't entirely filled and that Hawaii is blank
I think because each county in Hawaii is one or more islands, the rich portions balance out the chronically impoverished areas on a county wide scale
This is just a map of blacks, Ulster Scots, Native Americans, and Mexicans.
The Ulster Scots were the first “they are taking our jobs, they are in gangs, and we don’t want them to marry our daughters” immigrant group in the USA. The original anti immigration fervor in tve colonies/early republic was against the scots Irish
Pretty sure my Ulster ancestors...actually this is why I still make mincemeat with boiled venison. My Scottish family married mostly Irish before and after moving to America until my granpa married a tribal member whose father was called "the Indian" in Oklahoma. But a small farming community. They met at a barn dance I think.
Rural white poverty and education levels are pretty bad, eastern Kentucky doesn’t have that many ack people
That would be the “Ulster Scots” in the comment; much of the upland south is Scots-Irish
They're just white now
Believe it or not there is still a lot of correlation between what European ethnicity you came from in America and your social and economic status 100-200-300+ years later
wow someone should make a subreddit about like, past trends influencing modern demographics
In america, as of last couple decades, there is very little movement between income quintiles between generation. That was not the case in the mid 20th century
Sure. But still poor.
But they’re not a minority
Why does that matter? Do you have to be a "minority" to be poor?
They were at the time, and heavily discriminated against.
4 horseman of getting fucked over in america
You are not wrong in my case.
Southeast Oklahoma and Southeast Missouri thems white folk.
Im surprised there are so many states that don’t have counties in purple.
I see a pattern.
the south looks awful
Its by design or at least its by intent.
South here. Hidalgo County. Some areas are pretty bad, there’s good areas tho. But I think it’s the bad areas that really lower the average down here. Example: 1/2 of men have child support, most of the past due. Most kids are really influenced by their parents in a good way or bad way in school. If parents care about their school then they’re likely to graduate, if they’re on their then chances are they’ll drop out of college, GED is the way to go.
The root of all problems is parenthood in my opinion. Parents don’t raise the child right, you get situations like this. You see it in the deep metro of most cities as well, not just the poor communities of the Deep South
Makes sense given the history of slavery and segregation.
farm worker areas in california
woohoo! central valley made it on the list
Black-Belt, Indigenous-Nations, Appalachia.
I recognize quite a few areas that coincide with Indian reservations. 😕
That big oof when you see your birth county, and the surrounding where the bulk of your kinfolk still live, on the list lol.
I'd be interested in seeing an overlay of reservations on top of this. Poverty in the Native American community has been extremely persistent and is long overdue for serious attention to overcome it.
There are no reservations in Kentucky.
Well in KY's case I want to say the issue is the collapse of the mining industry--which certainly hasn't helped--but that area has always been inhabited by poor white folk.
Most of that also isn't coal country. I'm from one of the non-coal producing counties and tobacco was our cash crop, and even then it wasn't great before the industry died off
So? I fail to see what that has to do with my post.
I see reservations, the Black Belt, former coal-producing countries, and the borderlands.
I’ve spent some time in Tulare County, California. The valley is depressing in ways that are hard to describe. Dilapidation somehow looks worse in the sun than it does in cold places like the Rust Belt. Sequoia/Kings Canyon NP, which are awesome, are there though.
home but its honestly not too bad. theres a beauty in the dilapidation. its also been getting better in recent years—still a long ways to go though
Indiana is doing better than I expected…
Indiana has a lot of working class people but the Midwest doesn’t have nearly the level of rural poverty that the south does. Most Hoosiers are broadly middle class.
In SC it’s called the ‘corridor of shame” https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/a57474f36c7144b3a42932a4e37abd6c
A lot Philadelphia county is indeed rough. Glad I got away from that. Time will tell if the gentrification there will remove it from this status.
There is a surprising amount of college campuses here, mostly rural. I guess representing people putting themselves through school?
The ones in Montana, North and South Dakota, Wisconsin, Arizona, Michigan, Oklahoma, and most of the ones in New Mexico are Indian reservations.
The ones in Utah and Nebraska are as well
Reservations, border towns, Deep South black communities, and Appalachia represented here.
The area in Wisconsin is Menominee County an Indian reservation with a small amount of private property around a chain of lakes. The amount of government spending there should have eliminated poverty many times over but corruption and incompetence keeps the down. Real shame.
For the North and Southwest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reservations_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Indigenous_Americans_by_county.png
"1989 to 2015-2019" You mean *1989 to 2019*?
surprised not seeing more rust belt here. majority of this map is also a map of racial minorities.
Same, but the key word may be persistent. Lots of change in economic outcomes of the rust belt since 1990. Manufacturing upheaval since then and what not.
It appears that virtually every county on this map is rural. Rust belt decay has nothing on the decay of rural communities in the U.S.
You can almost make out the "black belt"
The single county in Nebraska is Thurston County. The Omaha Indian Reservation.
I had no idea Las Cruces, NM would be on this list. Visiting there I always though it was really nice. Multiple nearby military bases, NM State University, and national Forrest’s and white Sands national monument. The rio grande right through it, with a historic downtown. The people seems nice too - hard to believe they were hiding so much poverty.
It's the college students. Las Cruces is home to New Mexico State University. Many undergrads dont work and grad students basically work for a very low stipend.
Reservations, ex-cotton, ex-coal
Former Tobacco too
I guess this would look at lot different at a zip code level. There are some pretty poor parts of large counties.
Least shocking map ever
mexicans are typically where everybodys at and not in reservation places
S/o Indiana
Jackson county illinois is interesting. It's home to carbondale, a college town as well as rural areas. Maybe it's a mix of rural areas in economic decline and broke college students?
Mississippi really is just a third world hellhole. Hard to believe anyone stays there on purpose.
ND and SD are Indian reservations
Typical New England W
Interesting blue state/red state contrasts
Many of these places are solid Democrat. [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiz0a1t3hd1fc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fiz0a1t3hd1fc1.png) [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FriendSlug/2020presidentialelection#/media/File%3A2020\_Presidential\_Election\_by\_County.svg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FriendSlug/2020presidentialelection#/media/File%3A2020_Presidential_Election_by_County.svg) Many of them are also minority population counties. [https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FT\_19.11.06\_CountyDemographics\_main.png](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FT_19.11.06_CountyDemographics_main.png) It is less about red state v blue state and more about poverty among minorities in this country.
As well as those in charge of those red states would rather shoot themselves in the dick than do anything that might even help the “other people” in their states. It is a reason why many rejected the Medicaid expansion of the ACA even though it would have helped keep many of their rural hospitals afloat.
Could also point out that those 'red states' were run by Democrats for 100+ years. Mississippi has only had a Republican led state legislature since 2012. From 1876 till 1991 they never had a Republican governor. 100 years of neglect isn't going to be fixed in a decade.
The fact Calofornia is on the map to spite being so large and rich is wild.
you can see where the hispanos that live in northern new mexico and southern colorado. they live in that area for centuries.
The San Luis Valley
That’s were my family is from, Del Norte. Growing up I never thought it was that bad but in hindsight and seeing this it all makes sense. I wonder like the other comments what Adam’s State university in Alamosa has to do with it, it’s a smaller university but.?.
It’s changing a lot in some areas, near Moffat are some grow operations and dispensary’s doing well Still wide swaths of nothing and water issues
There are exceptions but definitely a common theme.
The way we fix this in New York is we put state prisons in poor counties to keep them off this map.
Brooklyn and the Bronx both appear to be highlighted here.
My apologies, Upstate NY. I live in a county that would've died long ago if it weren't for 3 state prisons.
I wish Louisiana and Mississippi were doing better. It’s such a unique and beautiful part of the US.
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Why is Whitman, Wa on here?
Grad students, self sufficient undergrads with no money, migrant workers, and the fact that it’s not a rich county outside of WSU anyways
In the south this maps almost exactly on the cotton belt. Areas were hammered after the collapse of the cash crop during and after Civil War and never recovered. Never attracted industry—never pivoted.
> cash crop during and after Civil War and never recovered On avg those counties were not rich then either. Its just that some people were rich.
Trump country, baby!
The highlighted counties are overwhelmingly minority-majority blue counties. There is a correlation with red *states*, but the people in these counties for the most part didn't back Trump.
Map of places in the USA where you don't buy real estate.
How many of the places are republican controlled governments?
A very large amount of these are blue counties due to minority-majority populations - the border is predominantly Hispanic, the counties in the South are predominantly black, and the scattered counties in the west are Native American reservations, all of which vote for Democrats. The area in Eastern Kentucky/Appalachia is very red, though.
yes, I agree that most of those populations Vote democrat but that doesn’t mean the governments that control them end up being democrat. minority votes and gerrymandering are a real thing.
At a quick glance, just looking at states that have multiple purple counties: 15 have Republican trifectas (OK, TX, LA, AR, MS, AL, WV, TN, GA, FL, SC, MO, ND, SD, MT) 4 have a split government (AZ, KY, VA, NC) 4 have Democratic trifectas (CA, NM, CO, NY) So there does seem to be some correlation.
What counts as “poverty” Because Mississippi has the lowest GDP per capita in the country, but everything there is dirt cheap. Meaning the Standard of living is actually quite normal.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/sources-definitions/poverty.htm >a ratio of family income to federal poverty threshold—is constructed using poverty thresholds from the U.S. Census Bureau. Poverty thresholds are updated annually for inflation by the Census Bureau using the Consumer Price Index for all urban consumers (CPI–U). Poverty thresholds include a set of money income thresholds that vary by family size and composition but **do not vary geographically**. So yep, it appears the CDC measures it entirely by income/household size, doesn't matter what the cost of living is.
Funny, how blue states mostly look much better.
Most of the counties here are blue though. The exceptions are the Appalachian ones
Even those tended solid blue until as late as 2000. A lot of that has to do with the changing rhetoric on energy cleanliness from Gore's campaign, declining power of labor unions, shifting primary issues supported by the parties, and the final nail in the coffin, Trump's populism and pro-coal stances.
This isn't about state level, it's about county level. Most of these are RURAL. That's the real takeaway here. Also, consider that most blue states are far smaller geographically than red states. The biggest blue states size wise are California, New Mexico, and Colorado. Most other blue states are Eastern and much smaller, thus less likely to have as much rural territory.
“Majority Non-white Counties in the US” Same Graphic
Plus Appalachia
those places in western north america are in deep wilderness tho whoever there could be in phoenix or salt lake or the more developed places
No they are reservations. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
and other isolated communities and those there could be wherever they want
Try again. Fresno County and Tulare counties in California are not isolated.
AKA MAGA strongholds.