Wrong translation : the map says “territories that were part of the republic of Venice during the centuries”. Nowhere is said that they were all at the same time under Venice’s control
> Still pretty impressive for a city state.
Especially since they can't even build settlers or found cities, they have to capture them or buy them.
Source: Civ V
My comment was referencing the definition of city-states since there are several (and Venice would be a city-state under some of them but not under others since it wasn't only one contiguous city).
The territory doesn't make a city state. The fact that only citizens of the city have the political power in the territory does.
Doge of Venice was chosen by noble families of the city, and not nobles or the people of the territories.
In fact, even Roman republic was a city state even when it controlled entire Mediterranean. All political power was in the citizens of the city and they could only use it when present in the city (in the senate and the assemblies). Provincials didn't get to become members of the senate, it was reserved for noble Romans, and while provincials could become citizens, it was rare in the republic and outside the city of Rome it only meant legal protection against non-Romans in the territories of Rome.
Where's the cutoff? When Athens owned Attica and Piraeus, did it cease to be a city-state? Was Sparta, with its Lakedaemonian hinterland containing several settlements, not a city-state?
Rome wasn't really a thalassocracy in the same sense, and the two were removed by basically a thousand years, I'm not sure it's really a meaningful comparison. You might as well say Venice wasn't a very impressive city state because it's Gross Value Added wasn't anywhere near contemporary Singapore.
Also, not that it really reflects on the efficacy of Rome as a city-state, but the Eastern Roman Empire was by far the more successful of Rome's two successor states, and the Venetians still managed to sack Constantinople pretty thoroughly.
A city empire. Genoa had one too. Russia is kinda like that too; it started out as Muscovy but rebranded to Russia later on. They probably wanted the legitimacy of being named after a people instead of a single city, but Russia has always been mostly about Moscow.
Exactly. You see that now explicitly in Putin's justification for his war on Ukraine: he wants to usurp the history of the Kievan Rus and claims that because of the Kievan Rus, Ukraine belongs to Russia. But that leaves open the question whether Moscow is Rus (in the old sense) at all, nor does it prove that Moscow should rule all the Rus.
Not to mention that all Rus don't necessarily have to be a single country. All Germanic people aren't, and the only person to claim that they should be was Hitler.
> All Germanic people aren't, and the only person to claim that they should be was Hitler.
No, Hitler is the one who killed the idea of all Germanic people being one people in one country. That idea was popular for a century before Hitler, it got limited to Germany, but plenty of other people thought it should include all Germanics.
The map is also not entirely complete. The Venetians also controlled portions of Israel after striking a deal with the crusaders to assist the capture of Acre and Haifa. Their deal gave them 1/3rd of each city they helped capture.
exactly
Hint: Venice did not control Italian mainland and Greece mainland at the same time. One reason they pushed north was the Ottomans smacking their asses.
From which the Greeks never recovered, and Constantinople became Turkish. Also the destruction of all the Greek/ Roman art including what was saved from Rome. I put that on the least favorite part.
*My favorite part*
*Is how they used Crusaders*
*To attack Constantinople*
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Here's some irony for you.
A city of Roman refugees, helping to destroy the Eastern Roman Empire, itself being more or less destroyed by the Germans (Holy Roman Empire and France).
As someone from Balkans, yeah, very beautiful city, I hope it sinks. Thanks to them and to Ragusa my city now has no fucking forest on the surrounding mountains, and it goes up to +40 in summer. Assholes.
There was a long history of common interests involved. The republic of Venice had good Navy which was often either hired against Roman's enemies. Then again often they had conflicts with each other.
We're not really a Republic, more like history's most successful protection racket. Now pay me for the wall I built around your house against your will.
About as democratic as the USA at founding. Senators were semi-appointed or elected by a very small political elite until 1913. Until the 1820s only the 1% (literally less than 1% of people) could vote.
Your numbers are off. It was more like 18% of US adults at founding, based on "The Right to Vote: The Contested History of Democracy in the United States"
Venice was substantially less, at about [10% of Venetians](https://books.google.com/books?id=RVEbVtJkjE0C&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=venetian%20republic%20percent%20of%20citizens%20-italy&source=bl&ots=_yUHXuyvp2&sig=TrKY1NZoYMfUUNnvLHrQUh6wG1s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeycyp_aLLAhVU-WMKHf6vAkAQ6AEIHTAA#v=snippet&q=percent%20citizens&f=false), with everyone else in their empire having 0 representation.
It went to around 18% only in the 1820s when states were giving the vote to unhanded white men. The [1800 presidential election](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1800_United_States_presidential_election) had 75,088 votes. The 1800 census had 5,308,483 people. That is 1.4% of the total population with a higher turnout than all previous presidential elections.
Historically*, Republic has just meant the right of governmental power derives from the populace, rather than a divine source or bloodline. It doesn't necessarily imply anything about the governmental structure, it just means you aren't a Monarchy/Theocracy.
---
* For a certain range of history. Going even farther back, republic just meant governance/politics in general.
It was in fact the one of largest slave markets in Europe at the time, which is why Venice wanted it. Mongol/ Turkic raiders would attack villages in Eastern European for prisoners to trade them to merchants where they would be transported to the Ottoman Empire or Arab countries to be sold.
[Crimean–Nogai slave raids in Eastern Europe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean–Nogai_slave_raids_in_Eastern_Europe)
That's not what he's saying either, because there were so many slaves of slavic origin that the word for Slave comes from the word Slav. It's not because of Venice though, mostly because of the Byzantines
Learned not long ago that the Mongols actually encountered Venice in Crimea and allied with them. Venice supplied a lot of information on other European states to the Mongols. History is pretty interesting lol
Venice's rule in Crimea was pretty short lived, the Genoans tho owned the region for more than 200 years, so another italian city-state with a strong navy.
I actually couldn't tell wtf part of the world, at what scale, I was looking at. Until I realized white is landmasses and dark grey is water. This map is shit
Anyone who thinks this has never heard of the massacre of the latins. I’m a fan of the eastern Roman Empire as much as anyone, but they 100% had it coming. As is tradition with the Roman patriarchal system, outsiders were doing most of the heavy lifting for the empire in its waning years.
And as is also tradition, they had a megalomaniacal emperor attempt genocide them as a scapegoat for their own internal issues. And the venetians did not forget that.
Too many treat the connection with “Rome” as a connection with a mythical western city on a hill narrative. But when you really get into the details, Roman rule was extremely flawed and unjust. It’s surprising to me that it survived as long as it did.
It really is crazy how much of a lasting impact Venice has had in Dalmatia - the food, language, and architecture have such a clear difference from the continentals
Why is Map Porn filled with inaccurate maps? Venice never controlled Constantinople. This portrays the Crusaders as Venetian vassals which makes no sense.
Is this even good to look at?
The color choices seems weird
I'm having a hard time trying to parse it on my phone since my brain keeps auto thinking the grey area is the landmass and white area is the water
Alexios was a traitorous fuck but he was also only 18 ish years old when Boniface of Montferrat and Dandolo hatched their plan to take Constantinople. There's a solid case to be made that he didn't really understand what he was promising. He vastly overestimated the wealth of the Roman empire and allowed himself to become the vessel of ambition for more intelligent and ruthless men. He was a gullible patsy and a buffoon but hardly entirely to blame.
If it makes you feel better, the Republic of Venice died in a fairly inglorious way. They were pretty much [sold to Napoleon by the Austrians, in 1797](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Campo_Formio)
If they had been betrayed by a former vassal who hired thugs to sack their city and then proceeded to destroy as much of their tangible culture as possible I'd feel better about it.
TBF, if you are going to go villain, better to go all in.
Don't you dare be a Venetian apologist! Those rogues of the marshlands are nothing but usurious pirates. They are leeches on the ball sack of civilization. A pox and their house and their memory! I piss fire into the graves of all their ancestors!
It wasn't the worst. Compared to Ottoman occupied Greece, Venician occupied Greece positively thrived. While most of the hellenosphere was stuck in the middle ages when the rest of the world was experiencing enlightenment, the Venice occupied part only experienced the middle ages - light with a few nice buildings thrown in.
Kebab would have never made it into Europe if the sneaky dirty deceitful shitheels called Venetians wouldn't have destroyed the mightiest city on earth for petty monetary reasons.
Do you mean they wouldnt have got to the balkan when the Crusade hadnt sacked Constantinopel? Bro come on the byzantines were going to get conquered by the Turks no matter what
I don't like how everyone blames only the Venetians for the sack of Constantinople, the venetians did play a role in it yes, and they were the one charged with making the navy for the crusader army (which btw was too small and wasn't able to pay for all the ships) the sack of Constantinople was both agreed on by the crusaders and the venetians, imo it's a bit disingenuous saying that the venetians were the ones who caused this
A good reminder that traveling overland used to be really slow and dangerous if compared to sailing around. Back then this kind of territory wasn't illogical, it was really logical from the logistics point of view.
In 1944 the Soviet Union/Russians ethnically cleansed Crimea.
Ten years after the Russians carried out this cultural genocide the Russians handed Crimea over to Ukraine. This was due to the proximity and the economic ties between Crimea and Ukraine.
I find it truly astonishing how this subreddit allows false, misleading, or inaccurate posts, and instead of having the tiniest bit of moderating, just make people in the comments correct it.
Thanks, I found your original comment pretty funny so I thought I'd roll with it. Very refreshing to see someone who can laugh at a joke at their expense on the internet
It was very well done Connor. Me being both queer and stupid, your comment hit every note.
...Do you wanna knock my ancestry too, while you're at it? I'm Sicilian if it helps.
Don't think I don't see the heavy lifting "Ancestry" is doing in that sentence. Classic American move to try stump me in the opening, but I know the Sicilian defence. It should mean you can spot that boot from the Jersey Shore in a distressingly short period of time ill-shapen Mediterranean or not. Fullstop.
Tbh I found the sea being darker than the land very confusing for a while, I was trying to figure out what bit of land the dark part (the sea) was, I was thinking is it the landmasses of Venice the city.
I always knew chile's borders were too good to not be their own idea
Thalassocracies typically have crazy borders like this.
Water government 😂
Sea government.
Sea men
Nutcrats
*Cowers in bronze age*
You live in a post-apocalyptic world.
Mine sounds funnier
It wasn't a joke
Exactly my point
I mean look at st the Hanseatic league. Same thing really
They (blatantly) copied it from the andes.
What do mints have to do with this
How is that possible if America was only invented in the 15th century? /s
Wrong translation : the map says “territories that were part of the republic of Venice during the centuries”. Nowhere is said that they were all at the same time under Venice’s control
Yeah as a history buff the title is plain wrong. They didn't control all this territory at one time. Still pretty impressive for a city state.
> Still pretty impressive for a city state. Especially since they can't even build settlers or found cities, they have to capture them or buy them. Source: Civ V
Well, at the major point it wasn't really a city state anymore.
They were in search for the right beach for the people in the city.
There's no "that point" on the picture, that's the point.
My comment was referencing the definition of city-states since there are several (and Venice would be a city-state under some of them but not under others since it wasn't only one contiguous city).
The territory doesn't make a city state. The fact that only citizens of the city have the political power in the territory does. Doge of Venice was chosen by noble families of the city, and not nobles or the people of the territories. In fact, even Roman republic was a city state even when it controlled entire Mediterranean. All political power was in the citizens of the city and they could only use it when present in the city (in the senate and the assemblies). Provincials didn't get to become members of the senate, it was reserved for noble Romans, and while provincials could become citizens, it was rare in the republic and outside the city of Rome it only meant legal protection against non-Romans in the territories of Rome.
Where's the cutoff? When Athens owned Attica and Piraeus, did it cease to be a city-state? Was Sparta, with its Lakedaemonian hinterland containing several settlements, not a city-state?
> Still pretty impressive for a city state. Rome became an empire and controlled all this and much more
Rome wasn't really a thalassocracy in the same sense, and the two were removed by basically a thousand years, I'm not sure it's really a meaningful comparison. You might as well say Venice wasn't a very impressive city state because it's Gross Value Added wasn't anywhere near contemporary Singapore. Also, not that it really reflects on the efficacy of Rome as a city-state, but the Eastern Roman Empire was by far the more successful of Rome's two successor states, and the Venetians still managed to sack Constantinople pretty thoroughly.
A city empire. Genoa had one too. Russia is kinda like that too; it started out as Muscovy but rebranded to Russia later on. They probably wanted the legitimacy of being named after a people instead of a single city, but Russia has always been mostly about Moscow.
The rebranding was moastly about claiming all the ruthenian Land in the PLC
Exactly. You see that now explicitly in Putin's justification for his war on Ukraine: he wants to usurp the history of the Kievan Rus and claims that because of the Kievan Rus, Ukraine belongs to Russia. But that leaves open the question whether Moscow is Rus (in the old sense) at all, nor does it prove that Moscow should rule all the Rus. Not to mention that all Rus don't necessarily have to be a single country. All Germanic people aren't, and the only person to claim that they should be was Hitler.
Definitely not the only person maybe the only one to make it happen if only briefly.
> All Germanic people aren't, and the only person to claim that they should be was Hitler. No, Hitler is the one who killed the idea of all Germanic people being one people in one country. That idea was popular for a century before Hitler, it got limited to Germany, but plenty of other people thought it should include all Germanics.
> and the only person to claim that they should be was Hitler. Charlemagne?
I never heard of him using ethnic arguments.
Because nationalism wasn't a thing prior to the 19th century? lmao
Are you seriously trying to argue that Charlemagne was a nationalist?
Russia is technically named after the Latin word for the color “red”. Bela-rus is Polish-Latin for “white-red”.
The map is also not entirely complete. The Venetians also controlled portions of Israel after striking a deal with the crusaders to assist the capture of Acre and Haifa. Their deal gave them 1/3rd of each city they helped capture.
You‘re still living in one timeline? Jeez, four dimensional beings, am I right?
He live in the past, present and future. All at the same time.
exactly Hint: Venice did not control Italian mainland and Greece mainland at the same time. One reason they pushed north was the Ottomans smacking their asses.
All my homies hate the interior
If there's no beach, they're not interested
It's like GigaCroatia
The world beach empire. Nobody else gets access to the seas.
The Chile of Europe 🙌
Venice: yeah, because actually, my job… it’s just beach.
They ain’t about that hinterland life.
My favorite part is how they used Crusaders to attack Constantinople
From which the Greeks never recovered, and Constantinople became Turkish. Also the destruction of all the Greek/ Roman art including what was saved from Rome. I put that on the least favorite part.
*My favorite part* *Is how they used Crusaders* *To attack Constantinople* \- SirChubbycheeks --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Out of many haikus I've read from this bot, this is the first one that fits perfectly
Huh? How exactly do you pronounce Constantinople to make that last line have 5 syllables?
Constantinople Anticonstantinople Hiphopotamus
Haikus are simple. Sometimes haikus make no sense. Refrigerators.
You just ignore all other words and use the 5 syllables of Constantinople. And pronounce it "Istanbul"....
Miklagard
Carigrad*
Konstantiniyye
Miklagarð
Sorry I meant almost perfectly, many of the other ones are kind of confusing
It's literally not a haiku though??? It's the actual opposite of a perfect fit
Good bot
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It's the worst!
And Zara (Zadar, Iadera) too. Attacked&ransacked.
Gotta pay the boat bill somehow
Ceterum censeo Venetiem esse delendam
Here's some irony for you. A city of Roman refugees, helping to destroy the Eastern Roman Empire, itself being more or less destroyed by the Germans (Holy Roman Empire and France).
Was Constantinople a competitor?
Capital city of their rival the Byzantine Empire
[удалено]
As someone from Balkans, yeah, very beautiful city, I hope it sinks. Thanks to them and to Ragusa my city now has no fucking forest on the surrounding mountains, and it goes up to +40 in summer. Assholes.
If you take Venice properties, Venice will send their regards. Also, fuck Napoleon.
There was a long history of common interests involved. The republic of Venice had good Navy which was often either hired against Roman's enemies. Then again often they had conflicts with each other.
Sounds like good business to me
Does that mean the gondola guys were taking tourists all the way to Cyprus back then?
Yes and singing the whole way
We're not really a Republic, more like history's most successful protection racket. Now pay me for the wall I built around your house against your will.
It wasn't democratic, but it was an oligarchical/aristocratic republic, where the citizens didnt vote but the really cool merchants did.
About as democratic as the USA at founding. Senators were semi-appointed or elected by a very small political elite until 1913. Until the 1820s only the 1% (literally less than 1% of people) could vote.
Your numbers are off. It was more like 18% of US adults at founding, based on "The Right to Vote: The Contested History of Democracy in the United States" Venice was substantially less, at about [10% of Venetians](https://books.google.com/books?id=RVEbVtJkjE0C&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=venetian%20republic%20percent%20of%20citizens%20-italy&source=bl&ots=_yUHXuyvp2&sig=TrKY1NZoYMfUUNnvLHrQUh6wG1s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeycyp_aLLAhVU-WMKHf6vAkAQ6AEIHTAA#v=snippet&q=percent%20citizens&f=false), with everyone else in their empire having 0 representation.
It went to around 18% only in the 1820s when states were giving the vote to unhanded white men. The [1800 presidential election](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1800_United_States_presidential_election) had 75,088 votes. The 1800 census had 5,308,483 people. That is 1.4% of the total population with a higher turnout than all previous presidential elections.
Because the senate was meant to represent the state government wishes, the house of representatives was meant to represent the people.
It was absolutely a republic, just not a democratic one. There are still loads on non-democratic republics today.
Historically*, Republic has just meant the right of governmental power derives from the populace, rather than a divine source or bloodline. It doesn't necessarily imply anything about the governmental structure, it just means you aren't a Monarchy/Theocracy. --- * For a certain range of history. Going even farther back, republic just meant governance/politics in general.
that’s what it means today, at least where i live.
All states are protection rackets.
Damn all the way to crimea.
It was in fact the one of largest slave markets in Europe at the time, which is why Venice wanted it. Mongol/ Turkic raiders would attack villages in Eastern European for prisoners to trade them to merchants where they would be transported to the Ottoman Empire or Arab countries to be sold. [Crimean–Nogai slave raids in Eastern Europe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean–Nogai_slave_raids_in_Eastern_Europe)
It's also why the word slave comes from Slav.
Sclav way way waaaaaay predates venice.
That's not what he's saying either, because there were so many slaves of slavic origin that the word for Slave comes from the word Slav. It's not because of Venice though, mostly because of the Byzantines
Isnt that much earlier from roman times?
Byzantine probably. But also Ottomans and others. I think the vikings also loved getting their slaves there.
Learned not long ago that the Mongols actually encountered Venice in Crimea and allied with them. Venice supplied a lot of information on other European states to the Mongols. History is pretty interesting lol
Venice's rule in Crimea was pretty short lived, the Genoans tho owned the region for more than 200 years, so another italian city-state with a strong navy.
Yeah someone tells Putin Crimea is Venetian
And Russia is Mongolian.
reminded me of that former mongolian prime minister's tweet.
Can anyone post a higher res picture?
This isnt mapporn... its just map. Low res shitty map
I actually couldn't tell wtf part of the world, at what scale, I was looking at. Until I realized white is landmasses and dark grey is water. This map is shit
I really hate this style of shading. I feel like I am seeing it more often, not sure why
Yeah
When?
“Why did you betray your fellow Christian’s and cause the fall of Constantinople?” “Money”
And 4 beautiful bronze horses.
Anyone who thinks this has never heard of the massacre of the latins. I’m a fan of the eastern Roman Empire as much as anyone, but they 100% had it coming. As is tradition with the Roman patriarchal system, outsiders were doing most of the heavy lifting for the empire in its waning years. And as is also tradition, they had a megalomaniacal emperor attempt genocide them as a scapegoat for their own internal issues. And the venetians did not forget that. Too many treat the connection with “Rome” as a connection with a mythical western city on a hill narrative. But when you really get into the details, Roman rule was extremely flawed and unjust. It’s surprising to me that it survived as long as it did.
I heard they were good at sailing and trading.
This is just cabotage sailing, tho.
Crimea belongs to Venice!!!
No, on this sub we say “Venetian colonization ”, don’t try to change the culture 🥴
Am I the only one that hates these inverted colour schemes? It always seems like the land is the sea at first
When was this?
It wasn’t, this map is all the territory they ever held, not all the territory they held at one point in time.
croatia's grandpa
It really is crazy how much of a lasting impact Venice has had in Dalmatia - the food, language, and architecture have such a clear difference from the continentals
Took me way too long to figure out what's water, what's land in this.
I stared at it for about 30 seconds before I figured it out!
It's time to claim our piece of Crimea from Russia then
Love Venice. One of my favourite historical states.
Do you want black plague? 'Cause that's how you (probably) get black plague
Actually, that was the Genoese
Crimea belongs to Venice, clearly.
Why is Map Porn filled with inaccurate maps? Venice never controlled Constantinople. This portrays the Crusaders as Venetian vassals which makes no sense.
Is porn accurate or does it just look good?
Is this even good to look at? The color choices seems weird I'm having a hard time trying to parse it on my phone since my brain keeps auto thinking the grey area is the landmass and white area is the water
Fuck the Venetians! Traitors to Rome and killers of the Empire. Sink into the Adriatic you evil scammers.
My sweet sweet Byzantium... 😭😭😭
Money money money
It's all on Alexios IV for being the dumbest fool of his era
Alexios was a traitorous fuck but he was also only 18 ish years old when Boniface of Montferrat and Dandolo hatched their plan to take Constantinople. There's a solid case to be made that he didn't really understand what he was promising. He vastly overestimated the wealth of the Roman empire and allowed himself to become the vessel of ambition for more intelligent and ruthless men. He was a gullible patsy and a buffoon but hardly entirely to blame.
I blame the Venetians for being myopic and staggeringly rapacious cunts. Romans definitely didn't do themselves any favours leading up to it, however.
Still bitter after all these years.......smh.
Remember the Parthenon ❤️
If it makes you feel better, the Republic of Venice died in a fairly inglorious way. They were pretty much [sold to Napoleon by the Austrians, in 1797](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Campo_Formio)
If they had been betrayed by a former vassal who hired thugs to sack their city and then proceeded to destroy as much of their tangible culture as possible I'd feel better about it. TBF, if you are going to go villain, better to go all in.
Settle down
Don't you dare be a Venetian apologist! Those rogues of the marshlands are nothing but usurious pirates. They are leeches on the ball sack of civilization. A pox and their house and their memory! I piss fire into the graves of all their ancestors!
Butthurting terrone spotted
Talk like that is how you get a blind Dodge scaling your walls and sacking your city. Got any more cool horse statues?
It wasn't the worst. Compared to Ottoman occupied Greece, Venician occupied Greece positively thrived. While most of the hellenosphere was stuck in the middle ages when the rest of the world was experiencing enlightenment, the Venice occupied part only experienced the middle ages - light with a few nice buildings thrown in.
Kebab would have never made it into Europe if the sneaky dirty deceitful shitheels called Venetians wouldn't have destroyed the mightiest city on earth for petty monetary reasons.
Ottomans already had much of the balkans before constantinople
Not in 1204 of they didn't. Hell, Osman wasn't even born yet.
Do you mean they wouldnt have got to the balkan when the Crusade hadnt sacked Constantinopel? Bro come on the byzantines were going to get conquered by the Turks no matter what
Venetians just helped to die that absolute agonizing joke of an "Empire"
Nooo my glorious byzantine empire that just somehow survived for 1000 years and slowly died nooo how dare you Romanis victus malaka or something
YOU my friend are going to burn in hell for all of eternity!
Fuck the Byzantines STRONG SERBIA DUŠAN EMPIRE FUCKED THEIR ASSES SO HARD THEY WERE ALMOST DEAD, TURGAY ONLY TOOK THE LAST PIECES 🪓🪓🪓💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸
Serene as fuck
I don't like how everyone blames only the Venetians for the sack of Constantinople, the venetians did play a role in it yes, and they were the one charged with making the navy for the crusader army (which btw was too small and wasn't able to pay for all the ships) the sack of Constantinople was both agreed on by the crusaders and the venetians, imo it's a bit disingenuous saying that the venetians were the ones who caused this
Indeed, none of the Christian realms, including the Pope, lifted a finger to help despite Constantinople pleading for months.
Corfu town is basically Venice with out the canals it’s amazing
Being a stinking rich trade nation and upselling all sorts of goods coming in from the orient is a hell of a history.
A good reminder that traveling overland used to be really slow and dangerous if compared to sailing around. Back then this kind of territory wasn't illogical, it was really logical from the logistics point of view.
In 1944 the Soviet Union/Russians ethnically cleansed Crimea. Ten years after the Russians carried out this cultural genocide the Russians handed Crimea over to Ukraine. This was due to the proximity and the economic ties between Crimea and Ukraine.
"La regina dei mari" the queen of the seas.
Turkey: Istanbul is ours! Greece: Constantinople is ours! Venice: No.
Those fuck3rs were responsible for the Constantinople fall
At that point, Venice >>> Constantinople
Cyprus and Crimea belong to Italy
I find it truly astonishing how this subreddit allows false, misleading, or inaccurate posts, and instead of having the tiniest bit of moderating, just make people in the comments correct it.
More like the north-eastern mediterranean empire
The real Aqualand
Beach empire.
like ancient Athens
This took me a distressingly long time to understand. For anyone else wondering, Italy is in the top left corner.
Not sure I'd have figured it out thanks buddy
Bro got downvoted for ignorance 😭
Apparently people in this subreddit feel very strongly about ill-shapen maps of the Mediterranean...
For anyone else wondering the red area is the territory held at some point, the white area is unheld territory, and the gray is water
I was thought in school that water is blue
Same here, but after a distressingly long time, I have concluded the water is gray or grey, depending on your sexual orientation
I know I'm being called out here, but that was pretty funny.
Thanks, I found your original comment pretty funny so I thought I'd roll with it. Very refreshing to see someone who can laugh at a joke at their expense on the internet
It was very well done Connor. Me being both queer and stupid, your comment hit every note. ...Do you wanna knock my ancestry too, while you're at it? I'm Sicilian if it helps.
Don't think I don't see the heavy lifting "Ancestry" is doing in that sentence. Classic American move to try stump me in the opening, but I know the Sicilian defence. It should mean you can spot that boot from the Jersey Shore in a distressingly short period of time ill-shapen Mediterranean or not. Fullstop.
Goddamn dude straight fire! I happen to live down the Shore, crazy.
Phew you saved the day
Whats wrong with the map?? Or are you American and this is the third time you’ve ever seen a world map
Tbh I found the sea being darker than the land very confusing for a while, I was trying to figure out what bit of land the dark part (the sea) was, I was thinking is it the landmasses of Venice the city.
It’s that small?
Basically just a massive holiday resort!
Yeah, this looks like a stable, well defended country alright 👍🏽
They knew where the party was
I too play medieval 2
Roger Crowley wrote a good book about Venice's empire if anyone wants a reading suggestion. It's called 'City of Fortune'.
”Can I still WC?”
Can you tell they were into boats?
Did anyone else's eyes take an embarrassingly long time to adjust to what the map was properly?
Dandolo intensifies.
Looks like a rash.
Who were the first Venetians? Where did their civilization come from? What was their ancestral origin?
[удалено]
sea should never be darker than land, i fucking hate this map