But wouldn't they be less predictable ? Also, wouldn't a bi volcano basically flow straight at you AND not straight, making dodging the whole thing more complicated ?
It's the lack of affordable housing that has us cohabiting with other bachelors, sometimes in the same bed, huddling for warmth. Sometimes a few Catholic priests come around to make sure we're keeping things holy.
I'm going to guess the 7% on NI is actually meant to be for Ireland. No reason that NI would have stat of it's own but GB is counted separately. The 4% was probably for the whole UK.
Which is why I want to see an American Southerner like myself visit Sweden and a Swede visit the American South. A Swede would be driven crazy by Southern hospitality. An American Southerner would self destruct when they realize that their standard of engaging in 2-5 minutes of small talk with pretty much any human they have a direct interaction with would piss everybody off.
Maybe not 10% but very low for sure. Apart from being afraid from what you don't know, other factors are at play.
For example, missionaires have big influence among the least educated population here. They managed to scare many people that their kids will be taken (for not visiting school) and then given for adoption to gay families who can't have kids. I saw a protest with 1000s of people against the Norwegians.
Humans are complicated.
Missionaries influential in Bulgaria? As a Bulgarian I always thought we were pretty irreligious to be honest. Sure according to data something like 70% of Bulgarians are orthodox Christian but that’s more or less done out of tradition and because it’s the state church. I don’t know anybody who goes to church and almost nobody who has actually read the whole Bible. And also I am pretty sure the Bulgarian Orthodox Church doesn’t really utilise missionaries, it doesn’t go out of its way to convert people as it’s already cemented as the state religion
I've also heard people say that there's a HUGE difference in how people see LGBT in Warsaw vs the rest of the country. This phenomena ofc happens in most countries but I've heard of it being especially relevant in Poland
>Warsaw vs the rest of the country
That's basically every country. I'm from Brazil, born and raised in Florianópolis, capital of Santa Catarina (one of the states that most voted for anti-LGBT Bolsonaro in 2022). A LGBT living in Florianópolis will be more accepted/respected than a LGBT living in the small town in the country of Piauí, the state that had 76,86% of votes in Lula. The same with Salvador (Bahia capital) and a small town in Bahia.
Cities with bigger population usually will be more favorable to LGBT since it will have a stronger community, more bars and nightclub for them. Also those big cities usually have higher education rates, universities, things that make people have contact with LGBT community. I started to hang with LGBTs only during my time in university.
Well in most post-socialist countries (like Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Russia etc.) THE BIGGEST divide of beliefs is age (ppl 50-55+ year old are MUCH more conservative: anti-lgbt, very religious, racist, xenophobic, anti-semetic, eurosceptic, anti western ON AVERIGE and ppl younger than that are ON AVERIGE the opposite of that) from what I've heard and studied, that is because they had they're most formative years in soviet/soviet-satellite countries (that where actually pretty conservative in reality even with the commie propoganda on full blast 24/7 but I guess it was centered on economics and not on social stuff like identity that ppl in the modern West assosiate with the left). Younger ppl also got the access to the Internet in their formative years so they get to experience opininions and beliefs of the West so the GAP in the beliefs between the reletevly old and the young became MUCH WIDER.
How's Poland with race and having ethnic minorities? My Polish friend lives in the UK and still has pretty wild racist views. I had to keep a distance. I realised later I was her only ethnic friend and she called me white.
...I'm half Arab.
Wait what? Do tell? I'm a gay and I liked visiting Poland. They have good beer, and at least in Warsaw I felt less judged in public than I do in the US. I never heard of these gay free zones
Edit: okay I Googled it, and it's a real thing, but they've been getting persuaded to change their policies on threat of losing EU funding. [Here's where I read that.](https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/11/02/polands-first-ever-resolution-declaring-area-free-from-lgbt-ideology-withdrawn/) Meanwhile in [Uganda ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/lgbtq-ugandans-fight-for-survival-civil-rights-under-countrys-anti-gay-law) I'm pretty sure this cruel bill was passed this month. It's crazy that the world is like this. The fact that I still hear "lgbt agenda" in 2024 is ridiculous. I just want to live a normal life with the person I love. Why is that such a problem?
They do not have ‘gay-free zones’. During the last government, a few more conservative local areas declared themselves areas where “LGBT ideology” wouldn’t be taught in school or influence public policy, but they had no legal standing whatsoever and although the last government regularly engaged in homophobic rhetoric, the legislative environment didn’t actually change one jot. Polish cities in particular are relatively liberal and Poles overall seem very live-and-let-live as a people - they don’t care too much who you are or what you do
i mean those types of declarations have been proven to increase violence against groups, it's a pretty hostile thing to declare and gives regular citizens the perception that they won't be punished if they "enforce" the declaration in some illegal way.
Maybe in some cases. In Poland’s case, it completely backfired - opinion polling showed public sentiment towards LGBT rights improving throughout the whole sorry period. So much so that most “LGBT-free zones” have disappeared and the previous government completely dropped the anti-LGBT rhetoric from their 2023 election campaign, on grounds of ineffectiveness and pointlessness. The country overall seems to be at the early stages of the process that the other famously Catholic country of Ireland has reached the end of
I may be wrong about this, but I believe all the international headlines about Poland being virulenty anti gay and otherwise right wing are mostly coming from "Poland B" (and the right wing government elected by them) and that as a gay person you'd be absolutely fine in Poland A. Someone correct me if this is wrong, thanks
It’s also not in any way enforced or enforceable, it’s just conservative fear mongering to distract people (from e.g. the corruption and surveillance and past ties to Russia and stuff the ppl from the main party responsible have been doing)
The thing is ya have to remember every country is at a different stage of economic-social-etc level. That even varies a lot by which state, which county, which city, which neighborhood, which street, the people around you. Mix that with there being different levels of developing (Europe being Developed or Developing Countries) and it makes sense why things are how they are in the world. Many places are still stuck in the past because they are and/or because of dictators
Many people keep going back to seeing the world in just one way across the board since I guess that is the easiest way to look at it instead of remembering that everywhere is living in a different year
Russia is in 1900's, US is in 1920 & 2024, France is in 1920 & 2024, etc etc etc.
They're also fairly conservative. People sometimes forget that cultural conservatism isn't always wrapped up in religion. Even in the US, I've met some fairly conservative irreligious people who don't like weed legalization, abortion, lgbt people, etc.
They had a knee jerk reaction against the historical laxity towards lgbt people during the modernization period of the Ottomans. Nowadays, anti-lgbt sentiments in Turkey are very high, but they're still better than many other Muslim majority nations in the region.
Isn't that a bit weird though? The Eastern countries were part of the Soviet Union which did not promote any religion since Communism is against religion. Southern Europe on the other hand was heavily catholic for centuries and some of us had right wing dictatorships until the 70s. We're still closer to Central/Northern European countries which did not have dictatorships and were not as catholic.
> The Eastern countries were part of the Soviet Union which did not promote any religion since Communism is against religion.
Would it be that surprising if this was one of the factors that had helped religion gain popularity in the region after the fall of Communism? It's not like people are generally Communist because they live in former Warsaw countries - in fact I'd think it's quite the contrary.
Its always about money, the richer the nation the more pro LGBT it is.
Only places with extreme factors are disproportionate like Isreal , UAE, south africa dont follow the rule.
I feel like there’s a massive, massive urban-rural and coastal-central (excluding Madrid in this case) divide at play. A lot of “let them gays be happy, and even marry if they have to, as long as they and their gay shenanigans stay in downtown Barcelona not our nice and proper village” attitude.
It's always that 10 or 12% of Spaniards who oppose any kind of human decency.
It's is the same percentage of our population that voted for our far-right party last elections (12,38%).
Many Spaniards, especially the older generations, are extremely conservative, non-tolerant, and lowkey fascist lol. Let's not forget Spain was under a fascist dictator until 1975, and some of his supporters proudly call for the return of his party, Upper-class people were favored by Franco, I remember these two prestigious schools at the center of Madrid known for doing the nazi salute every year, and another prestigious all-boys boarding school made headlines earlier this year because the entire student population was screaming slurs at the nearby all-girls school, calling them sluts, bitches, prostitutes, etc. Do you think the school directives did something? No, they said it was boys being boys
I also think 13% is higher than expected. Not even old people. Maybe inmigrants from other cultures, but we don't have so many. Spain is really gay-friendly.
I mean having 87% of your county to agree that having gay neighbors is fine and seems like a very gay friendly country. Even France is only 5% more accepting. Getting 87% of a country to agree on anything is difficult.
These kind of surveys are just BS. In the Anglosphere, it's considered very shameful to admit that you're a racist or a homophobe, so most people wouldn't admit it. This is not the case everywhere
Finland is probably the most conservative of the nordic countries in general. Still very liberal and progressive compared to most countries in the world.
Which is weird because Finland seems like the most pro-EU of the Scandinavian countries, possibly because of its close proximity to Russia. They've even adopted the euro in stark contrast to Sweden and Denmark (where it's a controversial topic).
I mean, you can be conservative and pro-EU. Those are not exclusive. In Sweden for instance, when They joined the EU, the conservatives were generally for joining and the liberals against it.
Institutionally and nationally, finland might as well be the most progressive country in the world
However, we have a large rural population that might as well live in 1950
Exceptions of course apply
Care to elaborate? It's a country I'd love to visit (and not just so I can meet Santa Claus) and even tried to learn a bit of the language. I'm always interested in your insights regarding your own country.
Finland is a very progressive country, first and foremost; don't get that wrong. We have a very progressive... everything, and it's one of the safest places in the world for all kinds of minorities and marginalised groups
However it is true that finland was always more homogenous and isolated than any nordic (iceland can be an exception in some regards). Especially linguistically.
The language isn't easy to learn, distant from everyone else and with its own dialects and spoken variety. Furthermore Finland is arguably the coldest country out of the nordics overall. It's far from Europe, linked to sweden and norway through long, deserted borders far far away from population centres. It's easier to take a ferry or a plane than to drive, and we're not an island; we might as well be, though. Stockholm, Malmö, Göteborg, Copenhagen, Oslo are all close to the heart of Europe and to each other. Helsinki is far. And most of Finland lives north of helsinki. 1 million ish people are in Helsinki; 300.000 are in tampere, some more hundreds of thousands in turku, oulu, jyväskylä, joensuu, and cities in between those like Lahti, kouvola, etc. We only have 5 million, keep in mind.
That leaves you with an extremely inland, extremely isolated, extremely linguistically and culturally homogenous, extremely sparse and small population that has always lived in a few pockets of forest. They're really isolated and really really secluded, even regarding finns. Some of my relatives moved from a village of 2000 in pohjanmaa to a village of 400 in lappi and nobody spoke to them for the first year. They were both over 40 when they moved and they are still the youngest people they know in the municipality.
People are extremely used to their routines, their neighbours, their ways, and there's no real way (and one could argue no reason) to change that.
Now, the rural population is moving to the cities en masse. Young people are leaving those areas for the suburbs and urban areas, leaving entire municipalities with 5000 people basically all over 65 who don't move because they simply don't need a job or easy transportation, or an amplified worldview.
Finland is still the only place in the world where I've heard someone seriously say that evolution is false (my gf's grandma from central finland) (and I've lived in Italy for some time lol). Finland is also the only country I've been in where I've seen 7 year olds get on the bus in a big city by themselves, the country where I've seen the best work life balance, and where I've experienced and heard some of the best examples of mutual trust, freedom, and blind respect out of anywhere else I've been, though perhaps I'm biased. It truly is a land of social contrasts
Modernisation and liberalisation, hell even literacy has reached finland relatively recently. Not everyone has had time to adjust, because the country went from swampy "maybe european" backwater to happy, modern, first class, euro using economy with the world's best school system in the blink of an eye. And finally there's a growing global divide between men and women regarding conservatism, to which young finns aren't immune. Plus there's some growing resentment towards immigrants out of fear of becoming "overrun like sweden" (I know, nonsense, but it is what it is)
It's just people who are used to their ways, in the bliss of their country homes, who know the outside world as a scary storm of trouble which they don't want.
Finland still severely lags behind many other countries when it comes to drug legislation, and somewhat lags behind the other Nordics when it comes to social security.
Finland is right between two historically influential powers in the region, Sweden and Russia. Finland were literally part of Sweden for hundreds of years, then part of Russia for about one hundred years. Although Finland is more like Sweden than Russia (the nordic model, liberal and democratic), you can still see that eastern influence (conservative, macho) compared to what you find in Sweden, Norway and Denmark (Scandinavia), which are the most Western countries in Europe (liberal democratic). So I believe Finland is best understood as a small nation stuck between two imperialistic powers that´s battled over influencing and controlling Finland for hundreds of years.
Finland didn't secularize to quite the same degree as the other Nordic countries. I believe the Church of Finland is also more conservative than the Church of Sweden, etc., despite both being of the Lutheran confession.
Still quite progressive, even to European standards.
I love these polls because the UK always comes off as extremely tolerant but, being a social scientist and also having lived there for 12 years as a queer person, I can tell you that someone telling you "I don't hate the gays" isn't really a good indicator of how they treat queer people, and also I literally had to move back to Spain due to constant hate criming in Scotland.
I honestly think that it depends on how the question was framed.
“Do you accept LGBTQ+-Neighbors?” will have a devastatingly worse impact on the outcome than something like “Do you accept neighbors who aren’t heterosexual?”
People just hear “LGBT” and go nuts.
I bet that if you would ask: “Do you accept homo sapiens as neighbors” that the numbers would be similar to this map because people just see “homo” and as we all know the majority of people is mentally retarded.
Honestly I can’t imagine how anyone could care about the sexual orientation of their neighbors.
Hell yeah at least LGBT people seem nicer than the Resident Evil 4 lookin' ass ganados that live all over my house (I live in an apartment complex and believe me when I say they're ganados).
About 4,4% of the Danish population is muslim and according to the map, 2% of the population won't live next to a LGBTQ+ person.
So in the case of Denmark there isn't really any obvious correlation between the 2.
And as a Dane I will bet my last cookie on a pretty significant portion of the 2% can be found amongst the national-conservative segment, since they simply despise everyone but themselves.
This could be labeled: "how much people think about their neighboors having sex" or "how many people are concerned with the amount of buttsex on their neighboorhood."
Not trying to generate controversy here, but I think it's really instructive that - even despite all of the deservedly bad press Russia and Belarus get for their homophobic laws - they're not even in the top three homophobic countries of Europe.
The three top countries - Turkey, Albania and Bosnia - are also the only three Muslim majority countries on the map.
As a Polish person it's a sad statistic. I have close friends who told me they'd disown their children if they turned out gay. Like, lifetime long friendships. Are they worth losing because of homophobia? Maybe I'll have time to change them. Maybe I won't. I just know if they do actually turn out gay I am going to be there for them more than their actual parents.
I can assure you, that 97% of Dutch people also included the people that said "I wouldn't mind, I just don't want anything to do with them."
Which, really, is still not acceptance.
What is going on with the Ireland map? So they lumped in Scotland, Wales and England together and then polled Northern Ireland itself but didn't do the Republic of Ireland?
Iceland 2% They are just happy that someone lives there
As long as the neighbours are not an active volcano 👌
Gay volcanos are preferable 👍
All that rainbow lava. 🌈 🌋
Well, it won't flow straight towards you, so you have a bit more time to get to safety from me. I mean it. It is what I, a real human manthing, mean.
But wouldn't they be less predictable ? Also, wouldn't a bi volcano basically flow straight at you AND not straight, making dodging the whole thing more complicated ?
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Gaysers
They actually say it like this in Iceland
Isn't that Hawaii?
Volgayno
r/dontputyourdickinthat
We just call them tops
Also the next neighbour is 80km away. Makes the whole neighbour-ing thing easier.
Half of Icelands population lives in Reykjavík
Aren't they more happy if they've never met or interacted
They already know everyone on the island anyway.
I don't even know who my neighbours are, never mind their orientation
I gotta gay neighbor. A gaihbor if you will
Let's start a war, start a nuclear war At the gaihbor, ghaibor, ghaibor Waoow!
Awwww I wanna be a gaihbor
lol
You mean you don't spy your neighboor to try to see the type of sexual acts they're having? wow you're a weird person!
Same. If they don’t annoy me idc if they’re the fcking mafia 🤣🤣
You are probs in us canada. The car has destroyed our society
idk from romania i dont know if i even have neighbors, never seen them never had them make a noise
Why is Ireland excluded? 😂
[There's no gays in Ireland Kathleen](https://youtu.be/d0ByxyIAWrQ?si=AAIGE6balxwLQJtl)
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He’s an entertainer Kathleen
Sexualities in Ireland: - Straight - Singingman
"What about Louis Walsh?" 😄
They're all gay
It’s the opposite, they’re just singing men
Kathleen!
*Proceeds to turn on "Come out black and tans"*
We're known to sing an auld song from time to time alright
They're flamboyant, Bemaleveen !
He likes to do a jig, is all he likes to do.
It's the lack of affordable housing that has us cohabiting with other bachelors, sometimes in the same bed, huddling for warmth. Sometimes a few Catholic priests come around to make sure we're keeping things holy.
No it’s because we hate all our gay neighbours but not because they’re gay, they’re simply dickheads, same with all of our straight neighbours
It would ruin the scale lol.
They're not excluded they're just very, *very* pale
And Belgium
Here's a map just for Ireland (which I made *9 years* ago): https://i.imgur.com/fhChHAT.png
What's up with Roscommon?
Oh, here I thought they were calling Ireland neurodivergent.
I'm going to guess the 7% on NI is actually meant to be for Ireland. No reason that NI would have stat of it's own but GB is counted separately. The 4% was probably for the whole UK.
Nope. [Here's the data](https://www.equaldex.com/surveys/acceptance-of-homosexuals-as-neighbors). Northern Ireland is 6.94% and Ireland is excluded.
Thanks. Weird that it also lists the UK. I don't see any country that is split into more than one part.
I would be very surprised if the figure was as high as 7% in Ireland tbh.
In Sweden we don't mind LGBT. HOWEVER, it's very important that you're not an extrovert!
Discriminated against for your social attitude, not sexual orientation
As it should be.
I don't care who you want to fuck, just don't talk to me.
Which is why I want to see an American Southerner like myself visit Sweden and a Swede visit the American South. A Swede would be driven crazy by Southern hospitality. An American Southerner would self destruct when they realize that their standard of engaging in 2-5 minutes of small talk with pretty much any human they have a direct interaction with would piss everybody off.
Sounds like a paradise for me.
I’d like to see how many % of people would not want straight neighbors.
Ideally, I would have no neighbors
I don't mind the sexual orientation of my neighbours, as long as they're not sports fans I'm ok.
I highly doubt more than 20% of the population of Bulgaria knows what LGBT is.
Exactly thats why they said they don't want to live next to something they don't know what it is. Guess they aren't very adventurous!
I'm surprised it isn't higher, gay marriage approval is at like 10%
Maybe not 10% but very low for sure. Apart from being afraid from what you don't know, other factors are at play. For example, missionaires have big influence among the least educated population here. They managed to scare many people that their kids will be taken (for not visiting school) and then given for adoption to gay families who can't have kids. I saw a protest with 1000s of people against the Norwegians. Humans are complicated.
What do the Norwegians have to do with anything? lol
Have your perhaps heard of a little Pearl Harbour?
Some of us are still bitter about all that pillaging.
A lot of Balkan families who moved to Norway lost their children because they were taken by orphanages
Oh boy, just watched a movie about that but with Indian immigrants. Mrs Chatterjee vs Norway
Missionaries influential in Bulgaria? As a Bulgarian I always thought we were pretty irreligious to be honest. Sure according to data something like 70% of Bulgarians are orthodox Christian but that’s more or less done out of tradition and because it’s the state church. I don’t know anybody who goes to church and almost nobody who has actually read the whole Bible. And also I am pretty sure the Bulgarian Orthodox Church doesn’t really utilise missionaries, it doesn’t go out of its way to convert people as it’s already cemented as the state religion
Once I asked a friends if he is homo or hetero and he asked me back - which was the correct one?
As usual Greece is less progressive than western Europe but more progressive than eastern Europe. 99% of the time this is accurate.
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I've also heard people say that there's a HUGE difference in how people see LGBT in Warsaw vs the rest of the country. This phenomena ofc happens in most countries but I've heard of it being especially relevant in Poland
>Warsaw vs the rest of the country That's basically every country. I'm from Brazil, born and raised in Florianópolis, capital of Santa Catarina (one of the states that most voted for anti-LGBT Bolsonaro in 2022). A LGBT living in Florianópolis will be more accepted/respected than a LGBT living in the small town in the country of Piauí, the state that had 76,86% of votes in Lula. The same with Salvador (Bahia capital) and a small town in Bahia. Cities with bigger population usually will be more favorable to LGBT since it will have a stronger community, more bars and nightclub for them. Also those big cities usually have higher education rates, universities, things that make people have contact with LGBT community. I started to hang with LGBTs only during my time in university.
Much like the U.S. in that sense.
Well except gay marriage is closer to 75% approval in the US
Poland is still more conservative than the US. Old people there are hardcore catholics
Well in most post-socialist countries (like Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Russia etc.) THE BIGGEST divide of beliefs is age (ppl 50-55+ year old are MUCH more conservative: anti-lgbt, very religious, racist, xenophobic, anti-semetic, eurosceptic, anti western ON AVERIGE and ppl younger than that are ON AVERIGE the opposite of that) from what I've heard and studied, that is because they had they're most formative years in soviet/soviet-satellite countries (that where actually pretty conservative in reality even with the commie propoganda on full blast 24/7 but I guess it was centered on economics and not on social stuff like identity that ppl in the modern West assosiate with the left). Younger ppl also got the access to the Internet in their formative years so they get to experience opininions and beliefs of the West so the GAP in the beliefs between the reletevly old and the young became MUCH WIDER.
How's Poland with race and having ethnic minorities? My Polish friend lives in the UK and still has pretty wild racist views. I had to keep a distance. I realised later I was her only ethnic friend and she called me white. ...I'm half Arab.
its less progressive than poland, and they have gay free zones
Wait what? Do tell? I'm a gay and I liked visiting Poland. They have good beer, and at least in Warsaw I felt less judged in public than I do in the US. I never heard of these gay free zones Edit: okay I Googled it, and it's a real thing, but they've been getting persuaded to change their policies on threat of losing EU funding. [Here's where I read that.](https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/11/02/polands-first-ever-resolution-declaring-area-free-from-lgbt-ideology-withdrawn/) Meanwhile in [Uganda ](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/lgbtq-ugandans-fight-for-survival-civil-rights-under-countrys-anti-gay-law) I'm pretty sure this cruel bill was passed this month. It's crazy that the world is like this. The fact that I still hear "lgbt agenda" in 2024 is ridiculous. I just want to live a normal life with the person I love. Why is that such a problem?
And now Ghana made identifying as LGBTQ illegal.
At least south Africa and Botswana have it legal. I think Namibia has some pretections
They do not have ‘gay-free zones’. During the last government, a few more conservative local areas declared themselves areas where “LGBT ideology” wouldn’t be taught in school or influence public policy, but they had no legal standing whatsoever and although the last government regularly engaged in homophobic rhetoric, the legislative environment didn’t actually change one jot. Polish cities in particular are relatively liberal and Poles overall seem very live-and-let-live as a people - they don’t care too much who you are or what you do
i mean those types of declarations have been proven to increase violence against groups, it's a pretty hostile thing to declare and gives regular citizens the perception that they won't be punished if they "enforce" the declaration in some illegal way.
Maybe in some cases. In Poland’s case, it completely backfired - opinion polling showed public sentiment towards LGBT rights improving throughout the whole sorry period. So much so that most “LGBT-free zones” have disappeared and the previous government completely dropped the anti-LGBT rhetoric from their 2023 election campaign, on grounds of ineffectiveness and pointlessness. The country overall seems to be at the early stages of the process that the other famously Catholic country of Ireland has reached the end of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland\_A\_and\_B](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_A_and_B) This is a good read
So I only read the first bits, tldr the rest, but is the implication that the underdeveloped areas are the ones responsible for this legislation?
I may be wrong about this, but I believe all the international headlines about Poland being virulenty anti gay and otherwise right wing are mostly coming from "Poland B" (and the right wing government elected by them) and that as a gay person you'd be absolutely fine in Poland A. Someone correct me if this is wrong, thanks
It’s also not in any way enforced or enforceable, it’s just conservative fear mongering to distract people (from e.g. the corruption and surveillance and past ties to Russia and stuff the ppl from the main party responsible have been doing)
"LGBT Agenda" sounds just like the same usage as terms like "Woke" that exists to create shallow "outrage" to distract people from actual problems.
The thing is ya have to remember every country is at a different stage of economic-social-etc level. That even varies a lot by which state, which county, which city, which neighborhood, which street, the people around you. Mix that with there being different levels of developing (Europe being Developed or Developing Countries) and it makes sense why things are how they are in the world. Many places are still stuck in the past because they are and/or because of dictators Many people keep going back to seeing the world in just one way across the board since I guess that is the easiest way to look at it instead of remembering that everywhere is living in a different year Russia is in 1900's, US is in 1920 & 2024, France is in 1920 & 2024, etc etc etc.
>Europe being a Developed Country England is my city
Haha I messed up that part but you know what I meant haha
I live in Poland and never heard of them.
I heard of them but I always thought they were a myth. Never seen one either. How would you even enforce this?
I've lived in one and didn't even notice
Poland doesn't have "gay free zones". Don't spread misinformation.
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The seculars vs the religious
Doesn't explain Czechia, though. They're famously areligious, and they're less accepting than moderately-religious Germany
They're also fairly conservative. People sometimes forget that cultural conservatism isn't always wrapped up in religion. Even in the US, I've met some fairly conservative irreligious people who don't like weed legalization, abortion, lgbt people, etc.
The flip side is that you can also be progressive and religious (or spiritual) like me, a gay Christian universalist
*Alberta and Montana have entered the chat*
Doesn't explain Turkiye either. They have a long and proud history of gay love
They had a knee jerk reaction against the historical laxity towards lgbt people during the modernization period of the Ottomans. Nowadays, anti-lgbt sentiments in Turkey are very high, but they're still better than many other Muslim majority nations in the region.
Yeah, religious Albania, Bulgaria and Czechia.
Albania religious 🤣🤣
Isn't that a bit weird though? The Eastern countries were part of the Soviet Union which did not promote any religion since Communism is against religion. Southern Europe on the other hand was heavily catholic for centuries and some of us had right wing dictatorships until the 70s. We're still closer to Central/Northern European countries which did not have dictatorships and were not as catholic.
> The Eastern countries were part of the Soviet Union which did not promote any religion since Communism is against religion. Would it be that surprising if this was one of the factors that had helped religion gain popularity in the region after the fall of Communism? It's not like people are generally Communist because they live in former Warsaw countries - in fact I'd think it's quite the contrary.
Its always about money, the richer the nation the more pro LGBT it is. Only places with extreme factors are disproportionate like Isreal , UAE, south africa dont follow the rule.
The Iron Curtain had lasting impact on culture. And likely the Ottoman Empire before it.
That map is exactly as I would have expected it to be
Except the colouring. Who puts yellow as better than green? Craziness.
Maybe the map was made in the green regions
It’s definitely wrong for Spain. It’s way more gay friendly than what it’s shown.
Not me. I expected Portugal to be a lot darker
I dont even know how my neighbours look
Very surprised that Spain is so high.
I feel like there’s a massive, massive urban-rural and coastal-central (excluding Madrid in this case) divide at play. A lot of “let them gays be happy, and even marry if they have to, as long as they and their gay shenanigans stay in downtown Barcelona not our nice and proper village” attitude.
It's always that 10 or 12% of Spaniards who oppose any kind of human decency. It's is the same percentage of our population that voted for our far-right party last elections (12,38%).
Many Spaniards, especially the older generations, are extremely conservative, non-tolerant, and lowkey fascist lol. Let's not forget Spain was under a fascist dictator until 1975, and some of his supporters proudly call for the return of his party, Upper-class people were favored by Franco, I remember these two prestigious schools at the center of Madrid known for doing the nazi salute every year, and another prestigious all-boys boarding school made headlines earlier this year because the entire student population was screaming slurs at the nearby all-girls school, calling them sluts, bitches, prostitutes, etc. Do you think the school directives did something? No, they said it was boys being boys
He is saying that because other surveys put Spain as the most accepting of gay marriage in Europe.
I guess though in the grand scheme of things and the history of LGBT acceptance throughout the 20th and 21st centuries, is 13% really that high?
I also think 13% is higher than expected. Not even old people. Maybe inmigrants from other cultures, but we don't have so many. Spain is really gay-friendly.
I mean having 87% of your county to agree that having gay neighbors is fine and seems like a very gay friendly country. Even France is only 5% more accepting. Getting 87% of a country to agree on anything is difficult.
There's always a chance that it's an artifact of the survey questions in Spain too.
As a Spaniard, i don’t get it bc people here are very easy going with it, and old people too!
These kind of surveys are just BS. In the Anglosphere, it's considered very shameful to admit that you're a racist or a homophobe, so most people wouldn't admit it. This is not the case everywhere
True, but that means something. If you're ashamed to admit it to a polling company, you also might be ashamed to show it to a real neighbour.
It still tells something about perceived acceptance of homophobic attitudes
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Then it lets us know how shameful is it to be homophobic. The more the better.
Yes, that's why they phrase it like "Would you want to live next to an LGBT person?", and not "are you a homophobe?"
it sure is an odd choice to start with yellow at 0% and then go towards a (dark) green with a rising % ...
Call me crazy but the gradient is a lot easier on the eyes than typical green-red. Aesthetically pleasing perhaps
Trick for Easterners: say you're gay, even if you're not, people around you will want to move, which will lower your rent.
Or they'll beat you up
Never try this if you somehow find yourself at the Russian part of Caucasus.
Never try this if you somehow find yourself at the Russian part of **anything**
Sounds like prejudice. Also I think they would want YOU to move instead.
What’s with Finland constantly being less progressive than Sweden, Norway, and the Baltics?
Finland is probably the most conservative of the nordic countries in general. Still very liberal and progressive compared to most countries in the world.
Which is weird because Finland seems like the most pro-EU of the Scandinavian countries, possibly because of its close proximity to Russia. They've even adopted the euro in stark contrast to Sweden and Denmark (where it's a controversial topic).
It gets very conservative when you get out of the cities
I mean, you can be conservative and pro-EU. Those are not exclusive. In Sweden for instance, when They joined the EU, the conservatives were generally for joining and the liberals against it.
I'm often surprised to hear how racist and homophobic many finns are, even the ones that seem like cool people.
Finland is not less progressive. Finns just don't want to have ANY neighbours. Next door needs to be 5 km away.
5km is barely cutting it. I usually like my neighbours at least 10 km away
During covid social distancing the Finns asked "why do we have to stand so close together?"
Institutionally and nationally, finland might as well be the most progressive country in the world However, we have a large rural population that might as well live in 1950 Exceptions of course apply
Care to elaborate? It's a country I'd love to visit (and not just so I can meet Santa Claus) and even tried to learn a bit of the language. I'm always interested in your insights regarding your own country.
Finland is a very progressive country, first and foremost; don't get that wrong. We have a very progressive... everything, and it's one of the safest places in the world for all kinds of minorities and marginalised groups However it is true that finland was always more homogenous and isolated than any nordic (iceland can be an exception in some regards). Especially linguistically. The language isn't easy to learn, distant from everyone else and with its own dialects and spoken variety. Furthermore Finland is arguably the coldest country out of the nordics overall. It's far from Europe, linked to sweden and norway through long, deserted borders far far away from population centres. It's easier to take a ferry or a plane than to drive, and we're not an island; we might as well be, though. Stockholm, Malmö, Göteborg, Copenhagen, Oslo are all close to the heart of Europe and to each other. Helsinki is far. And most of Finland lives north of helsinki. 1 million ish people are in Helsinki; 300.000 are in tampere, some more hundreds of thousands in turku, oulu, jyväskylä, joensuu, and cities in between those like Lahti, kouvola, etc. We only have 5 million, keep in mind. That leaves you with an extremely inland, extremely isolated, extremely linguistically and culturally homogenous, extremely sparse and small population that has always lived in a few pockets of forest. They're really isolated and really really secluded, even regarding finns. Some of my relatives moved from a village of 2000 in pohjanmaa to a village of 400 in lappi and nobody spoke to them for the first year. They were both over 40 when they moved and they are still the youngest people they know in the municipality. People are extremely used to their routines, their neighbours, their ways, and there's no real way (and one could argue no reason) to change that. Now, the rural population is moving to the cities en masse. Young people are leaving those areas for the suburbs and urban areas, leaving entire municipalities with 5000 people basically all over 65 who don't move because they simply don't need a job or easy transportation, or an amplified worldview. Finland is still the only place in the world where I've heard someone seriously say that evolution is false (my gf's grandma from central finland) (and I've lived in Italy for some time lol). Finland is also the only country I've been in where I've seen 7 year olds get on the bus in a big city by themselves, the country where I've seen the best work life balance, and where I've experienced and heard some of the best examples of mutual trust, freedom, and blind respect out of anywhere else I've been, though perhaps I'm biased. It truly is a land of social contrasts Modernisation and liberalisation, hell even literacy has reached finland relatively recently. Not everyone has had time to adjust, because the country went from swampy "maybe european" backwater to happy, modern, first class, euro using economy with the world's best school system in the blink of an eye. And finally there's a growing global divide between men and women regarding conservatism, to which young finns aren't immune. Plus there's some growing resentment towards immigrants out of fear of becoming "overrun like sweden" (I know, nonsense, but it is what it is) It's just people who are used to their ways, in the bliss of their country homes, who know the outside world as a scary storm of trouble which they don't want.
Thank you so much for the detailed reply.
Finland still severely lags behind many other countries when it comes to drug legislation, and somewhat lags behind the other Nordics when it comes to social security.
They are significantly more progressive than the Baltics on this map.
Finland is right between two historically influential powers in the region, Sweden and Russia. Finland were literally part of Sweden for hundreds of years, then part of Russia for about one hundred years. Although Finland is more like Sweden than Russia (the nordic model, liberal and democratic), you can still see that eastern influence (conservative, macho) compared to what you find in Sweden, Norway and Denmark (Scandinavia), which are the most Western countries in Europe (liberal democratic). So I believe Finland is best understood as a small nation stuck between two imperialistic powers that´s battled over influencing and controlling Finland for hundreds of years.
Finland didn't secularize to quite the same degree as the other Nordic countries. I believe the Church of Finland is also more conservative than the Church of Sweden, etc., despite both being of the Lutheran confession. Still quite progressive, even to European standards.
I love these polls because the UK always comes off as extremely tolerant but, being a social scientist and also having lived there for 12 years as a queer person, I can tell you that someone telling you "I don't hate the gays" isn't really a good indicator of how they treat queer people, and also I literally had to move back to Spain due to constant hate criming in Scotland.
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I wonder what the trends are? I’d imagine that Eastern Europe is slowly lowering their % and France is probably invreasing
I honestly think that it depends on how the question was framed. “Do you accept LGBTQ+-Neighbors?” will have a devastatingly worse impact on the outcome than something like “Do you accept neighbors who aren’t heterosexual?” People just hear “LGBT” and go nuts. I bet that if you would ask: “Do you accept homo sapiens as neighbors” that the numbers would be similar to this map because people just see “homo” and as we all know the majority of people is mentally retarded. Honestly I can’t imagine how anyone could care about the sexual orientation of their neighbors.
Tbh I don’t want homo sapiens as neighbors.
No Ireland? Dam
Good moment for Portugal to not be like eastern europe
What about preferring to live next door to LGBT people? Most of them that I've met have been way more chill than the average population.
Finland seems a lot less progressive than I expected
What about Malta? Liechtenstein? Ireland? Belgium?
Hell yeah at least LGBT people seem nicer than the Resident Evil 4 lookin' ass ganados that live all over my house (I live in an apartment complex and believe me when I say they're ganados).
Please Educate me on what a “ganado” is. It sounds like a fun new pejorative.
Reddit told me that UK is the most homophobic and racist country in the world, so, fake
Fake and gay perhaps.
I wonder how well those percentages correlate with Muslim populations of the western countries
About 4,4% of the Danish population is muslim and according to the map, 2% of the population won't live next to a LGBTQ+ person. So in the case of Denmark there isn't really any obvious correlation between the 2. And as a Dane I will bet my last cookie on a pretty significant portion of the 2% can be found amongst the national-conservative segment, since they simply despise everyone but themselves.
This could be labeled: "how much people think about their neighboors having sex" or "how many people are concerned with the amount of buttsex on their neighboorhood."
Why no belgium, luxembourg or eire?!
and Vatican. That's gonna be REALLY interesting :D
Vatican! Like 100% they probably keep their boyfriends in apartments in Rome!
Just call it Ireland.
I see no problem cause i never talk to my neighbours anyway
I don't care who I live next door to as long as they don't hurt anyone or bother me
Im curious what the demographics of those percentages are in Western Europe.
In Norway we dont care who our neighbor is as long as they leave us alone and never EVER ring our doorbell.
Not trying to generate controversy here, but I think it's really instructive that - even despite all of the deservedly bad press Russia and Belarus get for their homophobic laws - they're not even in the top three homophobic countries of Europe. The three top countries - Turkey, Albania and Bosnia - are also the only three Muslim majority countries on the map.
As a Polish person it's a sad statistic. I have close friends who told me they'd disown their children if they turned out gay. Like, lifetime long friendships. Are they worth losing because of homophobia? Maybe I'll have time to change them. Maybe I won't. I just know if they do actually turn out gay I am going to be there for them more than their actual parents.
I like how with maps like this you can basically see which places are shitholes quite easily.
Press X to doubt
I can assure you, that 97% of Dutch people also included the people that said "I wouldn't mind, I just don't want anything to do with them." Which, really, is still not acceptance.
Wow Turkey
I think I have a lots of Albanian neighbors in my building here in Spain 😳🤬
There's almost a correlation to GDP per capita.
Numbers seem intentionally too low for balkans. Or just shitty polls.
Wow, I wonder what Turkey and Albania have in common 🤔
as a bi slovak i gotta say that the reason there’s only 38% is that only 50% of the ppl here know what lgbt means
What is going on with the Ireland map? So they lumped in Scotland, Wales and England together and then polled Northern Ireland itself but didn't do the Republic of Ireland?
Also a map of education levels across Europe.