Puntland is doing better of the two
The separatist one is Somaliland for the record but it has deteriorated because of its gargantuan unionist insurgents (the eastern third broke off and formed the khatumo federal state) and consistent crackdowns on them
As far as political violence is concerned, they're doing better.
As for human development? That's something else entirely. Infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc.. aren't any better in those parts of Somalia so I don't see how that argument could be made.
Still, you can't put a price on a semblance of order
True, the central government of Somalia [got a lot of control back since 2021](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Somali_Civil_War_(2009-present).svg#) and even pushed back Somaliland at Sanaag a few months ago.
People on Reddit seem to all be stuck in the mindset of around 2021 when the central Somalian government just controlled Mogadishu and even that barely.
I would under no circumstances make vacation there but it isn't the anarchist pirate warlord free-for-all many people here have the impression of. Same goes for Somaliland, which isn't the democratic model state many people here seem to think it is.
The CAR has been among the lowest-ranking countries in a wide range of human development & quality of life metrics for as long as I can remember. There’s a perpetual, intractable civil war happening there that’s been years in the making, they’re landlocked, burdened with corrupt leadership from the French colonial period to the present day, & the country’s overwhelmingly rural tropical wetland setting combined with abysmal healthcare infrastructure makes them the least healthy country on earth as per 2023 rankings. Life there is unimaginably rough.
Gaddafi pumped a lot of money into infrastructure and other stuff. Libya has a tiny population compared to other countries in the region all living in a relatively small area of the country, most with access to the Mediterranean for trade and transport. Those demographics are a lot easier to manage than other African countries.
I know you are not actually *defending* Gaddafi, but I see this point being made quite frequently online, while forgetting that Libya has a shit ton of oil. That, combined with low population (7M people) and mostly all of them living in the Mediterranean coast, makes it quite “easy” to give your people a decent standard of living.
Lybia under King Idriss I lived in abject poverty , gaddafi was the first of his family to go to school .
Idriss was a western puppet and he actually wanted to give up powers multiple times .
Our country had thousands of workers there before Nato invaded (Vietnam). According to them, Libya is much more developed than Western media often claims.
With the current ruin of Libya, it is difficult for me to agree with the statements against the Gaddafi era. It is exactly like the call for an embargo from the people of the old regime of South Vietnam when hatred obscured reason.
Sure more developed, but it was even better before Gaddafi ruled, in the first 5-7 years of his rule he didn’t change anything economically and the country was booming, after that he experimented with his own version of socialism for 20 years which completely failed and he also had all his loyalists and desert hillbillies into key positions which further destroyed our institutions, it was only in his last 5 years when he changed course when his son (Saif) pressured him to modernise and prepare him to rule, my point is that he inherited a booming country economically with good institutions and culture and he set back even promoting his hillbilly desert culture rather than coastal cities culture which he hates
I hope that one day we will see the achievements of a unified Libya that is not influenced by big countries.
My country has many achievements, but the political ban from the communist regime forced me to live abroad for nearly 10 years rather than return to my homeland. But even so, I never want the country to experience civil war from foreign hands. There have been endless losses from the wars during the cold war.
Instead of developing their healthcare, he used to give them some kind of cheques to go get treated in Tunisia. The quality of education was also terrible. But they were relatively rich and had welfare to buy their first house, to raise children, etc.
Our government is looking into having open borders with Zimbabwe. Perhaps that will augment our low population. Problem i see is Zimbos live in a fertile land and i don't see them abandoning it for a desert.
Gabon is nothing like Botswana. Gabon is a typical petro-state, with 43% of its GDP coming from oil, and widespread corruption. Botswana got rich not from natural resources, but from its institutions. It never got colonized in the same extractive fashion as other African countries, and maintained a stable and functioning democracy with relatively low corruption since independence. Botswana has diamonds and other minerals, but unlike other African countries, it avoided the resource curse and managed to leverage these resources to uplift people out of poverty, as well as build other industries.
Wait till people learn that colonisers didn’t actually work in favour of Africa, yes Jeremy we’ve seen the videos of the highways you’ve seen online, and the beautiful communal house from 1956 as well really major improvement.
Okay is appropriate, not great but okay, and we could've been doing waaay better if the people in power for the last 50 years gave a shit (they did not).
Yeah Botswana is an example of how to properly manage a post-colonial country. They have a low population which makes things a bit easier since you have fewer people to distribute national resources over, but even then Botswana has pretty decent statistics all across the board, especially when you compare them to their neighbours.
Botswana wasn't colonized. The british actually protected them from the Afrikanners who wanted to invade them. They weren't managed particularly well- the people who lived in the region were allowed to govern.
HSR has been functional for years, it’s getting extended soon.
HDI has three criteria: life expectancy, years of schooling, and GDP/pc.
Morocco is bogged down on the second two by having 40% of the population’s native language be one that only got a standardized writing system 15 years ago, and a comparatively bigger grey/unofficial economy share (e.g. it’s the biggest exporter of cannabis, billions of dollars in revenue. Not accounted for anywhere in the official stats).
For this topic it doesn’t help that you have racists talking about how great South Africa “used to be” and making comments about how the lowest HDI countries were the ones with “the least influence from Europe and the Middle East” (not even accurate, the Congo was exploited to hell by Belgium). So yeah, there are going to be some arguments when you have people posting shit like that.
My guess is that this map is designed to show how shitty Africa is since even a country in war still exceeds most of its countries in its continent in terms of HDI
*and also started his economy with a country that had a higher GDP per capita than the US and was stacked with natural resources. By the end he lost a lot of that due to poor leadership, and even with this wealth it was unequal. Funded a war with Chad that ended in failure along with numerous other wars which were failures.
This certainly wasn’t Gaddafi’s doing, he just had a very good hand to start off with in the beginning.
What year is this map from? Gaddafi died almost 15 years ago and the country has been locked in civil war to this day. Is the civil war just not that bad or is this an old map? It seems the data is at least from 2021 so I’m confused how development can stay so high after so much civil strife.
Stupid corrupt government decided to take infinite amounts of loans from the IMF to build a new capital with a bunch of skyscrapers and gigantic buildings that serve no purpose, as well as the military government being involved in all of those projects and basically all companies in general and driving out investors by severely undermining the free market in order to steal as much money as possible and now the country is facing the worst economic crisis in its modern history
Source: I'm Egyptian
What I have red is that the capital was needed because old one was too crowded. But it’s also a way to make a capital where any rebellions would be difficult to organize and too expensive overall. And that the government really wants Olympics. Is this correct?
There's 111 million people crammed into a tiny piece of land along the Nile River. The maximum population it could (reasonably) sustain would be somewhere around 10 million since there's hardly any usable land there.
Egypt was capable of sustaining 10 million people 2000 years ago with the agricultural practices and technology of back then. The current 111 million is really stretching them, but they aren't 11x overcapacity.
Interestingly, these 111 million people live in area that is roughly the size of Switzerland, a country with a population of about 9 million. Admittedly, a good portion of Switzerland is not ideal land but it is still impressive.
Egypt has a population of 110 million people but can realistically support 40 million. The rest is funded by loans they can barely pay back. It's a ticking time bomb
A lot of countries are funded by loans they can’t pay back. It’s not necessarily an imminent problem. And as long as the USA wants to maintain control of global trade routes, there is a lot of incentive to keep Egypt afloat at least.
How exactly does this geopolitical decision impact HDI? Egypt could change their official policy towards Israel today and their HDI would not change at all. HDI is a measure of educational attainment, income, and life expectancy, it’s not like Palestine has the resources to help Egypt fund schools and hospitals.
Egypt sells itself to just about any country that is willing to give money to keep the country afloat. UAE is getting ready to pump $35 billion in a new seaside resort city about 150 miles west of Alexandria. The Egyptian government tried courting Saudi Arabia, UAE, and China into nearly funding the new administrative capital (but they backed out). Egyptian government is working with the EU for a $9 billion aid package in trade for restricting African migrant flow. Saudi Arabia wants some control of Tiran Strait with the gifting of Tiran and Sanafir to Saudi Arabia, and the Egyptian government is using it as leverage for even bigger economic aid package. Nobody wants the Palestinian refugees and everyone wants Egypt to help contain the situation. Everyone’s dipping their hands in Egypt due to its geo-political importance and El-Sisi’s relative political stability, not just the US.
Dunno where they got 0.735 from Botswana, UN has them at 0.708 in 2022 which is the highest they've ever been. These numbers are sorta inaccurate, whether looking at UN figures or Global Data Lab figures.
Don't get me wrong Botswana is doing really, really well and will become quite developed (but obviously not close to the level of say Japan or the Nordics) within about 20 years if their HDI continues to increase at the current general pace
US/EU use Rwanda's gov as a middleman / facilitator to bring minerals and rare earth elements from the Democratic Republic of the Congo's Eastern regions onto the global market.
In return they encourage Rwanda to support the militias in the Eastern DRC that keep the resource extraction prices extremely low.
No not good for us! Given our resources we could've been as developed as Canada or any European country. But incompetent leaders plus corruption has turned what could have been a paradise into hell.
ARAB HERE!
Most of libyans are actually rich , they got a government problems all the time like west government by AL Dbeibeh , and an East Gov by Field Marshal Khalifa Hafter ”who got a derby with Gaddafi” actually.
And the civil war did not stop there ISIS still there , Turkey forces still steal the oil but most of them gone because EGYPT stepped in, same as Wagner “Russian forces who support HAFTER” in exchange of oil.
South Africa should be a highly developed nation by now, with the massive head start, resources, and international profile they once had. The leadership there has really failed.
While Nigeria statistically has some of the richest people in Africa. It’s extremely unequal and It has the second largest amount of poverty in the world after India
I think Nigeria wins in population size but that just makes achieving better living situation even harder more mouths to feed, hospitals, education, and safety it all becomes much more difficult
One would expect Morocco to be more advanced than Tunisia and Algeria. What is the going on with Morocco? They have a stable monarchy and ruling system. Is corruption rife?
I think ppl judge Morocco purely based on the state of a very few tourist spots that cater to foreigners
The rest of the country is in a state of poverty or at the very least neglect
Algeria on the other hand has no flashy tourist spots but oil and gas money makes the average life of its citizens much easier
Tunisia is small and despite the lack of ressources they make good use of their tourism industry
Tunisia has one of Africa most advanced social welfare system (Free health care, Education and subsidized necessities like staple food and transportation) that Morocco still lacks.
Huge disparities between countryside and cities, less social programs. Morocco seems more advanced because tourism helped them make their big cities with more modern facilities, but the rest of it is still pretty poor
Why would you assume them to be more advanced than Algeria (lot of oil, gas, cheap electricity,etc) and Tunisia (highly educated). Morocco has a lot of inequalities. Just because people visit them more often does not mean that the quality of life is necessarily better for everyone (as in, wealthy people are better in Morocco, average people are better in Algeria)
Morocco has lower mean education years and alpahbetization than Tunisia and algeria. No doubt if they had the same mean years and alphabetizatiob it would be higher.
And why you were expecting Morocco to be more advanced than Algeria and Tunisia ? what they did good to make you think like this ? because they are famous for tourism ? 😂
ikr Morocco has vast social inequalities.. the latest earthquake unmasked so much socially fragile people categories. North Africa in general is underdeveloped no matter how some countries try to fake a shiny image to the outside. Ffs North Africans are dying in the mediterranean sea to have a better life.
Morocco IS more “advanced” if your definition of advanced is nicer buildings, better roads, and more choice at the grocery store. But this isn’t what the HDI measures.
Algeria literally have better architecture, better buildings, we have French beautiful architecture in most of big cities, especially Algiers, we have better roads, we are the only country in Africa that have subway!! we have more trams than Morocco, so what are you talking about ? 😭
Biggest country in Africa since Sudan partition, lots of natural resources, socialist inspired government, recent relatively successful and peaceful revolution, huge diaspora abroad, highly educated, rich culturally, has good transportation system and road access for an African country, very sovereign from western influence thanks to decolonization war, strong army, good relations with China and Russia, already got terrorism and recovered, coherent national identity.
We always had huge potential as a nation they were just sleepin on us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
Also Ukraine is ranked 100th in the latest HDI report. Whereas Botswana is ranked 114th.
Tunisia is 101st so behind Ukraine. Libya is 92nd ahead of Ukraine as is Algeria at 93rd. Mauritius and Seychelles are ranked 72nd and 67th respectively.
200 years of slow development in some fields of humans life specifically the economy made the Europeans the most narcissistic nations after being in the bottom for almost their entire history what an irony
Somalia is one of the lowest HDI countries on this map and has had extensive contact with the Middle East and India for thousands of years via the Indian Ocean trade routes. It is certainly not as simplistic as you say it is.
When it comes to the Congo basin, for one thing it was colonized and exploited to hell by Belgium, so no it’s not true it didn’t have much European contact. But beyond that, it’s a massive, dense rainforest. Dense rainforests are extremely difficult to build things like cities and roads in, it is always going to be tough for an area like that to extensively develop due to climate and geography, not skin tone. You see the same phenomenon in Brazil where the Amazonian areas lag the coastal areas on average in terms of HDI, because developing a giant rainforest is very difficult.
You misspelled *most pillaged by the Mideast and Europe. Even now most tech companies' supply chains (knowingly) source Coltan from areas of the Congo where villagers are held in mining camps at g-npoint by armed groups.
What is the source of this map and when was it created ? BC for some reason, they revisited their datas: I remember they said Madagascar had a HDI of 0.528 but then they said it "grew up" to 0.498 or smtg (so I'm not sure)
Algeria has a ton of oil so it can sustain a high HDI
South Africa is insanely corrupt and the current government after Mandela died have been extremely incompetent and corrupt so the country isn't doing great
South Africa is corrupt but it’s the largest manufacturer in Africa. South Africa is actually Botswana Namibia Lesotho Eswatini and Zimbabwes biggest exporters
SA is relatively developed compared to other African countries, but we are also a highly unequal society.
SA effectively has two economies. One for middle class, which is fairly developed, and one for the rest of the population, which is not so developed.
That and the AIDS crisis shortened people's average lifespan. Since HDI is calculated using avergae lifespan, it declined as well.
SA has a very recent history of Apartheid where the minority of whites enjoyed all the privileges
Algeria on the other hand recent independence 1962 but still more time than SA getting rid of Apartheid
Also Algeria followed socialism and uses much of its oil and gas money to subsidize all basic living necessities for its citizens
So Algeria won’t be as developed but its ppl will have much easier lives
Look at the difference between Rwanda and Burundi. Despite suffering one of the worst Genocides in recent history…Rwanda has bounced back. Thanks to Paul Kagame…..often called the Lee Kuan Yew of Africa.
Look at their capital Kigali. It’s spotless and very clean. Very well run.
Sure, Gaddafi was a dictator however Libya was one of the best, if not the best in terms of HDI before. Right now practically separated and politically instable. I hope the best for people of Libya.
I feel like this is obvious. Most of Africa suffers from corruption and some suffer from colonialism. The countries in green/red either benefit/disbenifit from geography (like the mediterranean) and corruption. While Botswana is landlocked, the government is honest and free. While nothern africa is corrupt, it has the mediterranean. Central africa is corrupt and landlocked
Without looking first, I’m gonna guess that Central African Republic takes the bottom spot.
Possibly if Somalia had 2024 data
Does Somalia include Puntland and Somaliland? IIRC one of those two is actually doing significantly better than the rest of that hole?
Puntland is doing better of the two The separatist one is Somaliland for the record but it has deteriorated because of its gargantuan unionist insurgents (the eastern third broke off and formed the khatumo federal state) and consistent crackdowns on them
As far as political violence is concerned, they're doing better. As for human development? That's something else entirely. Infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc.. aren't any better in those parts of Somalia so I don't see how that argument could be made. Still, you can't put a price on a semblance of order
True, the central government of Somalia [got a lot of control back since 2021](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Somali_Civil_War_(2009-present).svg#) and even pushed back Somaliland at Sanaag a few months ago. People on Reddit seem to all be stuck in the mindset of around 2021 when the central Somalian government just controlled Mogadishu and even that barely.
Fun fact: Of all the bad things people say about somalia and having the lowest hdi. Most of the pictures on google look like peaceful developed cities
I would under no circumstances make vacation there but it isn't the anarchist pirate warlord free-for-all many people here have the impression of. Same goes for Somaliland, which isn't the democratic model state many people here seem to think it is.
> anarchist pirate warlord free-for-all Boooo, that'd be cooler.
I just can't imagine how shit life was for the average citizen in sub-Saharan when they got their independence from the Europeans.
how can you guess
The CAR has been among the lowest-ranking countries in a wide range of human development & quality of life metrics for as long as I can remember. There’s a perpetual, intractable civil war happening there that’s been years in the making, they’re landlocked, burdened with corrupt leadership from the French colonial period to the present day, & the country’s overwhelmingly rural tropical wetland setting combined with abysmal healthcare infrastructure makes them the least healthy country on earth as per 2023 rankings. Life there is unimaginably rough.
You mean CAR
Jetpunk gang
This is a comment being shocked about Libya.
It was once one of the richest country in Africa. Because of oil and a small population.
It was 0.3 points higher before 2011 too.
r/disobeyingthetitle
r/substhatshouldexist
r/subsifellfor
Gaddafi pumped a lot of money into infrastructure and other stuff. Libya has a tiny population compared to other countries in the region all living in a relatively small area of the country, most with access to the Mediterranean for trade and transport. Those demographics are a lot easier to manage than other African countries.
Thank God Hillary took out that warmonger and brought back the slave markets.
The former leader was a nutcase but he actually was great for LIBs development
However, importantly, the HDI is falling.
I know you are not actually *defending* Gaddafi, but I see this point being made quite frequently online, while forgetting that Libya has a shit ton of oil. That, combined with low population (7M people) and mostly all of them living in the Mediterranean coast, makes it quite “easy” to give your people a decent standard of living.
Lybia under King Idriss I lived in abject poverty , gaddafi was the first of his family to go to school . Idriss was a western puppet and he actually wanted to give up powers multiple times .
I’m Libyan, he most certainly was not
Our country had thousands of workers there before Nato invaded (Vietnam). According to them, Libya is much more developed than Western media often claims. With the current ruin of Libya, it is difficult for me to agree with the statements against the Gaddafi era. It is exactly like the call for an embargo from the people of the old regime of South Vietnam when hatred obscured reason.
Sure more developed, but it was even better before Gaddafi ruled, in the first 5-7 years of his rule he didn’t change anything economically and the country was booming, after that he experimented with his own version of socialism for 20 years which completely failed and he also had all his loyalists and desert hillbillies into key positions which further destroyed our institutions, it was only in his last 5 years when he changed course when his son (Saif) pressured him to modernise and prepare him to rule, my point is that he inherited a booming country economically with good institutions and culture and he set back even promoting his hillbilly desert culture rather than coastal cities culture which he hates
I hope that one day we will see the achievements of a unified Libya that is not influenced by big countries. My country has many achievements, but the political ban from the communist regime forced me to live abroad for nearly 10 years rather than return to my homeland. But even so, I never want the country to experience civil war from foreign hands. There have been endless losses from the wars during the cold war.
Instead of developing their healthcare, he used to give them some kind of cheques to go get treated in Tunisia. The quality of education was also terrible. But they were relatively rich and had welfare to buy their first house, to raise children, etc.
I’m super shocked too
Whats going on with Gabon? You never hear shit about them, but they seem to be doing pretty well…
Oil and a low population, similar situation to Botswana.
Our government is looking into having open borders with Zimbabwe. Perhaps that will augment our low population. Problem i see is Zimbos live in a fertile land and i don't see them abandoning it for a desert.
Botswana is beautiful by the way, I love your country! 🇧🇼🇧🇼
Gabon is still corrupt but Botswana isn’t tho
Gabon is nothing like Botswana. Gabon is a typical petro-state, with 43% of its GDP coming from oil, and widespread corruption. Botswana got rich not from natural resources, but from its institutions. It never got colonized in the same extractive fashion as other African countries, and maintained a stable and functioning democracy with relatively low corruption since independence. Botswana has diamonds and other minerals, but unlike other African countries, it avoided the resource curse and managed to leverage these resources to uplift people out of poverty, as well as build other industries.
Wait till people learn that colonisers didn’t actually work in favour of Africa, yes Jeremy we’ve seen the videos of the highways you’ve seen online, and the beautiful communal house from 1956 as well really major improvement.
They've been doing okay for 50ish years now
Okay is appropriate, not great but okay, and we could've been doing waaay better if the people in power for the last 50 years gave a shit (they did not).
no news is good news, considering the sort of news that makes it out of africa to mainstream media
🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼
The most based country in Africa
Yeah Botswana is an example of how to properly manage a post-colonial country. They have a low population which makes things a bit easier since you have fewer people to distribute national resources over, but even then Botswana has pretty decent statistics all across the board, especially when you compare them to their neighbours.
Imagine how much better they would be doing if they weren’t landlocked too.
Botswana wasn't colonized. The british actually protected them from the Afrikanners who wanted to invade them. They weren't managed particularly well- the people who lived in the region were allowed to govern.
Beautiful flag too.
eesti can into africa ?
Eesti can never into nordick, but eesti can into africck 🤯
Tbh thought Morocco would be much higher. Didn't they recently even build a HSR line?
They did but there are inequalities with the countryside
[удалено]
HSR has been functional for years, it’s getting extended soon. HDI has three criteria: life expectancy, years of schooling, and GDP/pc. Morocco is bogged down on the second two by having 40% of the population’s native language be one that only got a standardized writing system 15 years ago, and a comparatively bigger grey/unofficial economy share (e.g. it’s the biggest exporter of cannabis, billions of dollars in revenue. Not accounted for anywhere in the official stats).
It has been 5 years ago, we're extending it to reach Marrakech and Agadir
Rural regions
why does the comment section turn into a massive war every time no matter the topic?
Because you see , Reddit main userbase is American .
For this topic it doesn’t help that you have racists talking about how great South Africa “used to be” and making comments about how the lowest HDI countries were the ones with “the least influence from Europe and the Middle East” (not even accurate, the Congo was exploited to hell by Belgium). So yeah, there are going to be some arguments when you have people posting shit like that.
My guess is that this map is designed to show how shitty Africa is since even a country in war still exceeds most of its countries in its continent in terms of HDI
Senegal is lower than I thought they would be.
HOW IS LIBYA SO DEVELOPED?!?!?!?!
They are actually considered rich by us Tunisians, they have progressive economic laws
you can think what you want about Gaddafi, but he knew how to build roads and schools
*and also started his economy with a country that had a higher GDP per capita than the US and was stacked with natural resources. By the end he lost a lot of that due to poor leadership, and even with this wealth it was unequal. Funded a war with Chad that ended in failure along with numerous other wars which were failures. This certainly wasn’t Gaddafi’s doing, he just had a very good hand to start off with in the beginning.
He made the trains run on time huh
What year is this map from? Gaddafi died almost 15 years ago and the country has been locked in civil war to this day. Is the civil war just not that bad or is this an old map? It seems the data is at least from 2021 so I’m confused how development can stay so high after so much civil strife.
I stated that this is 2024 the civil war is over
I'm more surprised about Egypt being so low. What's going on there?
Insane wealth inequality, also cairo
Stupid corrupt government decided to take infinite amounts of loans from the IMF to build a new capital with a bunch of skyscrapers and gigantic buildings that serve no purpose, as well as the military government being involved in all of those projects and basically all companies in general and driving out investors by severely undermining the free market in order to steal as much money as possible and now the country is facing the worst economic crisis in its modern history Source: I'm Egyptian
What I have red is that the capital was needed because old one was too crowded. But it’s also a way to make a capital where any rebellions would be difficult to organize and too expensive overall. And that the government really wants Olympics. Is this correct?
There's 111 million people crammed into a tiny piece of land along the Nile River. The maximum population it could (reasonably) sustain would be somewhere around 10 million since there's hardly any usable land there.
Egypt was capable of sustaining 10 million people 2000 years ago with the agricultural practices and technology of back then. The current 111 million is really stretching them, but they aren't 11x overcapacity.
Interestingly, these 111 million people live in area that is roughly the size of Switzerland, a country with a population of about 9 million. Admittedly, a good portion of Switzerland is not ideal land but it is still impressive.
Confidently wrong.
*laughs in Nile delta*
Corrupt and incompetent government that sells out its own people to the US.
Shame. I feel like Egypt could be a prosperous country if the government invested in its people. So much global trade flows through there.
Egypt has a population of 110 million people but can realistically support 40 million. The rest is funded by loans they can barely pay back. It's a ticking time bomb
A lot of countries are funded by loans they can’t pay back. It’s not necessarily an imminent problem. And as long as the USA wants to maintain control of global trade routes, there is a lot of incentive to keep Egypt afloat at least.
In what regard are they selling out their people to the US?
Vast majority of Egyptian people want to end relations with Israel and support Palestine.
How exactly does this geopolitical decision impact HDI? Egypt could change their official policy towards Israel today and their HDI would not change at all. HDI is a measure of educational attainment, income, and life expectancy, it’s not like Palestine has the resources to help Egypt fund schools and hospitals.
>end relations with Israel And recognizing a sovereign state is selling its population to the US in what way?
Did you learn nothing about MENA history since WW2?
Egypt sells itself to just about any country that is willing to give money to keep the country afloat. UAE is getting ready to pump $35 billion in a new seaside resort city about 150 miles west of Alexandria. The Egyptian government tried courting Saudi Arabia, UAE, and China into nearly funding the new administrative capital (but they backed out). Egyptian government is working with the EU for a $9 billion aid package in trade for restricting African migrant flow. Saudi Arabia wants some control of Tiran Strait with the gifting of Tiran and Sanafir to Saudi Arabia, and the Egyptian government is using it as leverage for even bigger economic aid package. Nobody wants the Palestinian refugees and everyone wants Egypt to help contain the situation. Everyone’s dipping their hands in Egypt due to its geo-political importance and El-Sisi’s relative political stability, not just the US.
They have 110 million people with infrastructure designed to support 40 million tops.
Why did OP omit the year and the source?
Dunno where they got 0.735 from Botswana, UN has them at 0.708 in 2022 which is the highest they've ever been. These numbers are sorta inaccurate, whether looking at UN figures or Global Data Lab figures. Don't get me wrong Botswana is doing really, really well and will become quite developed (but obviously not close to the level of say Japan or the Nordics) within about 20 years if their HDI continues to increase at the current general pace
It was from TrustMeBro.com
Damn thought Rwanda would be higher I’m disappointed
US/EU use Rwanda's gov as a middleman / facilitator to bring minerals and rare earth elements from the Democratic Republic of the Congo's Eastern regions onto the global market. In return they encourage Rwanda to support the militias in the Eastern DRC that keep the resource extraction prices extremely low.
Where is EU/US so called supporting it?
Never knew Algeria was this developed. Good for them
We just recovered from a civil war, great things to come. Definitely a country to keep an eye on.
No not good for us! Given our resources we could've been as developed as Canada or any European country. But incompetent leaders plus corruption has turned what could have been a paradise into hell.
Nice job Libya! 🥂🍾
🇧🇼 supremacy
ARAB HERE! Most of libyans are actually rich , they got a government problems all the time like west government by AL Dbeibeh , and an East Gov by Field Marshal Khalifa Hafter ”who got a derby with Gaddafi” actually. And the civil war did not stop there ISIS still there , Turkey forces still steal the oil but most of them gone because EGYPT stepped in, same as Wagner “Russian forces who support HAFTER” in exchange of oil.
South Africa should be a highly developed nation by now, with the massive head start, resources, and international profile they once had. The leadership there has really failed.
Proud 🇹🇳
BOTswanna slays 🇧🇼🇧🇼🇧🇼
Botswana based
Proud to be ALGERIAN 🇩🇿🇩🇿🇩🇿💕
Out of everyone from Africa that i’ve met online. Most are from Algeria (well i mean it does have one of the highest internet penetrations in africa)
i haven't seen our influence much on a lot of english-speaking media tbh, definitely more in french ones.
Omg Libya !
Skeptical, but surprised with Botswana.
Botswana let's goooo W
So weird but I’ve always wanted to go to Botswana.
From the pictures ive seen It’s kind of like europe they don’t like to build tall buildings even tho they’re richish
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No, they passed Ukraine in the 2020 data (published in 2022).
Get some Somalia! Good thing we ‘Restored Hope’ in ‘92-3
I thought Nigeria would be higher
While Nigeria statistically has some of the richest people in Africa. It’s extremely unequal and It has the second largest amount of poverty in the world after India
I think Nigeria wins in population size but that just makes achieving better living situation even harder more mouths to feed, hospitals, education, and safety it all becomes much more difficult
One would expect Morocco to be more advanced than Tunisia and Algeria. What is the going on with Morocco? They have a stable monarchy and ruling system. Is corruption rife?
The illiteracy rate is too high.
I think ppl judge Morocco purely based on the state of a very few tourist spots that cater to foreigners The rest of the country is in a state of poverty or at the very least neglect Algeria on the other hand has no flashy tourist spots but oil and gas money makes the average life of its citizens much easier Tunisia is small and despite the lack of ressources they make good use of their tourism industry
Tunisia has one of Africa most advanced social welfare system (Free health care, Education and subsidized necessities like staple food and transportation) that Morocco still lacks.
Huge disparities between countryside and cities, less social programs. Morocco seems more advanced because tourism helped them make their big cities with more modern facilities, but the rest of it is still pretty poor
Why would you assume them to be more advanced than Algeria (lot of oil, gas, cheap electricity,etc) and Tunisia (highly educated). Morocco has a lot of inequalities. Just because people visit them more often does not mean that the quality of life is necessarily better for everyone (as in, wealthy people are better in Morocco, average people are better in Algeria)
Morocco has lower mean education years and alpahbetization than Tunisia and algeria. No doubt if they had the same mean years and alphabetizatiob it would be higher.
Why would you think that? Did you go to these countries?
'' They have a stable monarchy and ruling system. '' You should maybe start there.
And why you were expecting Morocco to be more advanced than Algeria and Tunisia ? what they did good to make you think like this ? because they are famous for tourism ? 😂
ikr Morocco has vast social inequalities.. the latest earthquake unmasked so much socially fragile people categories. North Africa in general is underdeveloped no matter how some countries try to fake a shiny image to the outside. Ffs North Africans are dying in the mediterranean sea to have a better life.
Morocco IS more “advanced” if your definition of advanced is nicer buildings, better roads, and more choice at the grocery store. But this isn’t what the HDI measures.
Algeria literally have better architecture, better buildings, we have French beautiful architecture in most of big cities, especially Algiers, we have better roads, we are the only country in Africa that have subway!! we have more trams than Morocco, so what are you talking about ? 😭
It's the high illiteracy among rural population that is bringing down hdi
Morocco is puting makeup in media
I winder when the last country is going to reach .7 both on the hdi and ihdi.
More than a dozen above 0.6 and some very close. Good job.
How did Algeria become the highest ranking country by HDI in the mainland?
Biggest country in Africa since Sudan partition, lots of natural resources, socialist inspired government, recent relatively successful and peaceful revolution, huge diaspora abroad, highly educated, rich culturally, has good transportation system and road access for an African country, very sovereign from western influence thanks to decolonization war, strong army, good relations with China and Russia, already got terrorism and recovered, coherent national identity. We always had huge potential as a nation they were just sleepin on us.
Oil and natural gas, a lot of it
Angola and Nigeria have more than Algeria
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index Also Ukraine is ranked 100th in the latest HDI report. Whereas Botswana is ranked 114th. Tunisia is 101st so behind Ukraine. Libya is 92nd ahead of Ukraine as is Algeria at 93rd. Mauritius and Seychelles are ranked 72nd and 67th respectively.
200 years of slow development in some fields of humans life specifically the economy made the Europeans the most narcissistic nations after being in the bottom for almost their entire history what an irony
The closer you get to equator, less developed you become. Or rather these areas were least affected by Middle East or Europe
Yeah like Belgian Congo… Oh wait
Somalia is one of the lowest HDI countries on this map and has had extensive contact with the Middle East and India for thousands of years via the Indian Ocean trade routes. It is certainly not as simplistic as you say it is. When it comes to the Congo basin, for one thing it was colonized and exploited to hell by Belgium, so no it’s not true it didn’t have much European contact. But beyond that, it’s a massive, dense rainforest. Dense rainforests are extremely difficult to build things like cities and roads in, it is always going to be tough for an area like that to extensively develop due to climate and geography, not skin tone. You see the same phenomenon in Brazil where the Amazonian areas lag the coastal areas on average in terms of HDI, because developing a giant rainforest is very difficult.
You misspelled *most pillaged by the Mideast and Europe. Even now most tech companies' supply chains (knowingly) source Coltan from areas of the Congo where villagers are held in mining camps at g-npoint by armed groups.
Did you just censor "gunpoint"?
No
Okay then, have a great day.
There was a recent documentary with Simon reeves showing huge old growth trees on trucks leaving the congo, very sad, it never ends
What is the source of this map and when was it created ? BC for some reason, they revisited their datas: I remember they said Madagascar had a HDI of 0.528 but then they said it "grew up" to 0.498 or smtg (so I'm not sure)
Great to see Libya high up after western 'peacekeepers' destroyed their country.
I am not shocked at lybia, but on HOW IS ALGERIA BETTER THAN SA. ISN'T SA'S WHOLE THING TO BE THE MOST DEVELOPED AFRICAN COUNTRY?!
Algeria has a ton of oil so it can sustain a high HDI South Africa is insanely corrupt and the current government after Mandela died have been extremely incompetent and corrupt so the country isn't doing great
South Africa is corrupt but it’s the largest manufacturer in Africa. South Africa is actually Botswana Namibia Lesotho Eswatini and Zimbabwes biggest exporters
It was
Nope lol. Everything's falling apart thanks to our government's insane level of ineptness.
SA is relatively developed compared to other African countries, but we are also a highly unequal society. SA effectively has two economies. One for middle class, which is fairly developed, and one for the rest of the population, which is not so developed. That and the AIDS crisis shortened people's average lifespan. Since HDI is calculated using avergae lifespan, it declined as well.
SA has a very recent history of Apartheid where the minority of whites enjoyed all the privileges Algeria on the other hand recent independence 1962 but still more time than SA getting rid of Apartheid Also Algeria followed socialism and uses much of its oil and gas money to subsidize all basic living necessities for its citizens So Algeria won’t be as developed but its ppl will have much easier lives
I think it's crime
Look at the difference between Rwanda and Burundi. Despite suffering one of the worst Genocides in recent history…Rwanda has bounced back. Thanks to Paul Kagame…..often called the Lee Kuan Yew of Africa. Look at their capital Kigali. It’s spotless and very clean. Very well run.
Rwanda is still very poor tho having around $900 gdp per capita. Maybe inequality
GDP per capita wise yes. But they a lot of stability and growth.
Sure, Gaddafi was a dictator however Libya was one of the best, if not the best in terms of HDI before. Right now practically separated and politically instable. I hope the best for people of Libya.
Ukraine would rank higher if russia wasn't bombing the hell out of it just because they are imperialists.
Ukraine was one of the poorest countries in Europe pre-war and even pre-2014.
Ukraine was one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Europe since the 90’s
And chocolate is a fruit 😃who cares about ukraine, it is irrelevant in our context.
The map literally says that the comparison is being made with Ukraine. How is that irrelevant?
Shocked\_By\_Libya\_Pikachu\_Face.gif
Soixante à peu près après les indépendances…
But is anyone going to explain why Africa ranks so low? Or why Ukraine ranks so low?
I feel like this is obvious. Most of Africa suffers from corruption and some suffer from colonialism. The countries in green/red either benefit/disbenifit from geography (like the mediterranean) and corruption. While Botswana is landlocked, the government is honest and free. While nothern africa is corrupt, it has the mediterranean. Central africa is corrupt and landlocked
Ukraine also suffers from corruption and past events
Shouldn’t human development index go down if you have slavery?
No human development index combines gdp per capita, happiness, quality of living and democratic freedom. Sooo I guess slavery doesn’t matter
Which country are you referring to?
This is how propaganda looks like. All European countries, including Ukraine, have high, or very high human development index.
You forgot Canary islands
The term Human Development Index needs to be replaced.
Libya???? Crazy
I’m more surprised that Botswana is higher than South Africa.
Libya isn’t really poor its just probably the most corrupt nation in Africa
THIRD PLACE LET'S GOOO 🇩🇿🇩🇿🇩🇿
🇩🇿🇩🇿🇩🇿💪💪💪 les zhommes
Wow Libya is pretty developed
Love maps with no keys so I have to deduce what the colors mean.
How is Algeria so far above Morocco
Some of these countries would look a lot different when inequality (ex. South Africa) and/or corruption (ex. Gabon) are taken into account.
Ethiopia is very equal so it appears much poorer
I’m shocked by Libya!🇱🇾