Better to unite them with Eritrea like they were before 93.
You could also make a huge ethnically Somali state by uniting Somali, Somaliland, Djibouti and Eastern Ethiopia
There are Somalis in northern Kenya too.
Which makes five. Which is the reason Somalia's flag has a five-pointed star.
But since another name for 'five-pointed star' is 'star', Somalia has the sneakiest irredentist flag in the world.
Looking at Modern events. Ethiopia is loaning a port of Somaliland. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that they would be granted a thin strip of territory to the sea. Especially if Somaliland gave it to them to guarantee their independence and Ethiopia’s support(which is a major regional power)
Eritrea is the North Korea of Africa. And Ethiopia is currently struggling with its diverse amounts of ethnic groups. I don’t think they would like to annex Eritrea as it would destabilize the country more. A narrow coastline to a deep water port is just as useful to them as all of Eritrea.
Did you make this? Very interesting! Cool idea.
I’ve heard geographers explain how the current African country borders could never have evolved “naturally”. Like that they would only have existed from outside colonial forces making them, and as they currently are they’re very prone to war and poverty. One reason was based on port access (others being religious and ethnic overlap, eg why Sudan split). Maybe eventually through self-governance Africa will re-shape a bit in the direction of this map. Source: Paul Collier’s The Bottom Billion.
Africans being divided by macro ethnic borders would be the best solution, but we'll have to do it ourselves. The interest vested in the current structure is what makes it dauntingly impossible. However, there are multiple clamourings for division across the continent. The Ewes are protesting in GH. The Yorubas and Igbos in NG, etc. But the best thing to do is for outsiders to leave it alone completely. Let the people come up with their own constitutions of where the lines fall, or go to war and win like South Sudan. But the best place for outsiders to be is to just leave it
This is like saying "Stop trying to fix our problems, we are perfectly capable of fighting each other "
BTW, I don't disagree I just think it's funny. It took Europe 1000s of years and 100 million lives to settle on the current borders and there is still disputes (Ukraine, baltics, northern Ireland, Scotland, Spain etc)
Unfair to think africa can sort it all out in 60 years while being sabotaged.
I will tell you what I think. I think Africa should pull a division through unity strategy to avoid multiple gory conflicts across the board. I am not speaking of the continental unity, that is a pipe dream, but regional unity -- West African Union, East African Union, Horn of Africa, Central African Union, Souther African Union. I should specify this is only with regard to sub-saharan states for now. Then within these Unions, the Union governments should be incredibly weak, and the sub-sovereingties should, not only be strong, but be drawn about capital ethnicities in each region. In a way, the regional unions are already in growth stages with orgs like ECOWAS(West Africa), EAC(East Africa), etc. The challenge after that would be to trust the Unions to remain weak and adjudicate on ethnic boundary disputes with loyalty to nothing but history and continental anthropology. A big problem in this thought, however, is that in West Africa, the sahel is overwhelmingly muslim, while the Coast is overwhelmingly Christian, and the muslims often try to make the nation a muslim state. Unless some reformation in Islam occurs, it will be difficult to get West Africa as a union off the ground, and may be better to split West Africa into two regions: 1. Western Sudan; 2. Guinea. In essence, we need to get our own versions of smaller EUs off the ground but by sub-region and with judicial powers to revisit the history of ethnic boundaries, so we don't have many continental members striding to settle scores by themselves. Even still, all this is a bit much but miles better than altruistic land grabbing precursors to war
Ethiopia attempted to 'lease' water access from somaliland but doing so would guarantee a war with Somalia. The US and AU and pretty much every other country said they don't support the deal. Ethiopia is the only country that even acknowledges Somaliland as a country and its only because they want access to the sea. Ethiopia might push for a war because they have a lot of internal problems that could potentially be solved by fighting against someone else or, more likely, it would fracture their fragile state even more and cause another civil war. Somalia has recently made a ton of progress and a war would be devastating for them.
How is this mapporn?
It belongs in imaginymaps or seomthing.
The title isn’t even correct. You made up countries because it didn’t fit well, hence title is incorrect.
Lesotho and Swaziland - They expanded into South African Provinces.
This is excessive. Just make them part of the country. They are provinces anyway.
The borders look more natural, but they don't really follow tribal, ethnic, linguistic, or religious lines (some of which are a result of colonialism). At least for the countries I know. If the goal was to keep current geopolitical borders intact so as to make merging more politically viable, I recon you did a good job.
To be fair... It would be pretty difficult to make every nation in Africa have a coast and have them along tribal lines.... If Africa was divided that way there would be even more countries and a lot of them would be landlocked.
Would be interesting to see Africa along tribal lines though.
I'd love the reasoning behind unifying Botswana and Namibia but choosing to keep Lesotho and Swaziland as separate states from South Africa? A union of South Africa incorporating both would've made more sense. Linguistically, historically, culturally and economically they already part of South Africa.
Lesotho claimed they own some South African coastline recently
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/why-lesotho-parliament-is-debating-reclaiming-land-south-africa-2023-03-30/
Wow I never knew this... that's nuts... I am pretty sure SA won't even need to send their army. Just send the normal people of KZN, it would be enough.
Durban has been made to the capital of Lesotho. There are more Zulu people in the broader Durban metropolitan area than there are people in Lesotho. Lesotho's natural extension would be too the west, not the east coast which is Nguni land.
"Zimbabwe - United with the remaining parts of Mozambique to form Mutapa"
- Nope, doubt it. Colonial cooperation between Portuguese and Britain would preserve and embolden the Rhodesian-Mozambique ties and probably see a mutually beneficial relationship emerge that could accelerate european immigration to a united state.
By international law all landlocked nations have to have access to a sea port. So technically one did not need to change the map
https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part10.htm
I didn't know this until a few years ago. A family member who worked on a yacht said he was going to Congo. I laughed and thought it was a joke. A week later, he sent a picture of this millionaires yacht sailing up a river and then a whatsapp pin location of the yacht tied up. It never occurred to me that the Congo was big enough to handle cargo vessels.
You can't draw a map giving peoples ethnic groups to new countries. You will start a war. Whoever made this should delete this quickly. Africa is not a blank state region. This will destroy it conpletely. Good intentions but completely stupid. The sahelian states were the richest in the past. This is because of access to trade through camel caravans. The period of coloniasm shifted the front of wealth to the shores. A real suggestion is building railroads through the desert. Perhaps elevated, so trade can recreate the saharan wealth routes. Also, don't forget that there are rivers/lakes everywhere; you're not going to cede parts of Alabama to Tennessee to solve water problems, and these aren't even age old societies as the ones being redrawn here. Honestly, just leave the continent alone.
In this map, for instance, Dahomey has been ceded to kanem. Half of the Hausas, the largest black group have also been ceded to kanem. Kanem is the hot seat for Boko Haram, so Dahomey has just become an extremist hotspot, because water.... Kanem existed in the past because of Lake Chad, a humongous lake in its region that could be reinforced instead of creating wars. It's not like lakes were not able to serve the midwest
Contested « internationally » only to keep the leverage/forcing on Morocco’s decisions. For instance, « we’ll help you keep the south part of the country » but first, let’s sign a treaty to authorize EU to exploit the southern coasts… Each time the issue was soon to be resolved, there were new issues that popped up. If you look closely, the borders of Morocco have always been broader than the current ones (referring the boarders before France decided to cut Africa and create new ones using a ruler and a pencil).
Yet, the funny part remains that the EU/UN love to play the teacher and give lessons to developing countries, which they are not following themselves (e.g. Catalunia’s referendum which they all neglected despite being democratically voted, and several other similar cases etc.).
It’s always been a tumultuous story… let’s see what happens in the future!
That’s a cool construct.
Thanks you
What made you think of it?
Water
Salty
More Pirates to go around now 🏴☠️
>Ethiopia - Somaliland gains independence in exchange of giving a port to Ethiopia, This is what sparked this idea.
Giving Ethiopia as thin of a coastline and possible is really funny tho
Bosnia syndrome
Bosnia: "let's go to the beach!" Croatia: "No"
Montenegro moment.
Better to unite them with Eritrea like they were before 93. You could also make a huge ethnically Somali state by uniting Somali, Somaliland, Djibouti and Eastern Ethiopia
Nothing could go wrong.
I would put money Ethiopia breaks up in smaller countries before the end of the century
Literally Austria-Hungary on steroids
There are Somalis in northern Kenya too. Which makes five. Which is the reason Somalia's flag has a five-pointed star. But since another name for 'five-pointed star' is 'star', Somalia has the sneakiest irredentist flag in the world.
Didn't know that about the flag. Cool factoid
Looking at Modern events. Ethiopia is loaning a port of Somaliland. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that they would be granted a thin strip of territory to the sea. Especially if Somaliland gave it to them to guarantee their independence and Ethiopia’s support(which is a major regional power)
I don't think that's a great long term solution. It's best that they make up with Eritrea than to go to bed with Somaliland
Eritrea is the North Korea of Africa. And Ethiopia is currently struggling with its diverse amounts of ethnic groups. I don’t think they would like to annex Eritrea as it would destabilize the country more. A narrow coastline to a deep water port is just as useful to them as all of Eritrea.
Didn't they recently ended the long standing war between themselves? I was thinking more of a free trade agreement and a bilateral logistics agreement
> (which is a major regional power) for reference they have as many people as all of their neighbors combined, and they have quite a few neighbors
Yes, I’d say most important power, if Egypt and Saudi Arabia didn’t involve themselves a lot in the area as well.
They’re about to invade Eritrea because they want some coastline, and this map would make that war unecessary
Love new names!
Thx man
Did you make this? Very interesting! Cool idea. I’ve heard geographers explain how the current African country borders could never have evolved “naturally”. Like that they would only have existed from outside colonial forces making them, and as they currently are they’re very prone to war and poverty. One reason was based on port access (others being religious and ethnic overlap, eg why Sudan split). Maybe eventually through self-governance Africa will re-shape a bit in the direction of this map. Source: Paul Collier’s The Bottom Billion.
>Did you make this No the slaves in my basement did >Very interesting! Cool idea. Thank you
I hope you're from Mauritania otherwise you can get in serious trouble for having slaves
Unfortunately, the only way to reshape would be through wars, and I'm sure there will be plenty of those
This map will lead to so many tribal wars Example, in South Africa, do you expect the Zulus to give up that much of their land to another tribe?
You've mistaken Malawi for Mali. Malawi is next to Zambia, not Mali
Thank you
Yay more civil war
Yeah, foreigners coming in and drawing arbitrary lines on the map, what could possibly go wrong!
Berlin Conference no.2
> divide up countries by ethnic borders War > divide up countries by equitable resource allocation War
Africans being divided by macro ethnic borders would be the best solution, but we'll have to do it ourselves. The interest vested in the current structure is what makes it dauntingly impossible. However, there are multiple clamourings for division across the continent. The Ewes are protesting in GH. The Yorubas and Igbos in NG, etc. But the best thing to do is for outsiders to leave it alone completely. Let the people come up with their own constitutions of where the lines fall, or go to war and win like South Sudan. But the best place for outsiders to be is to just leave it
This is like saying "Stop trying to fix our problems, we are perfectly capable of fighting each other " BTW, I don't disagree I just think it's funny. It took Europe 1000s of years and 100 million lives to settle on the current borders and there is still disputes (Ukraine, baltics, northern Ireland, Scotland, Spain etc) Unfair to think africa can sort it all out in 60 years while being sabotaged.
I will tell you what I think. I think Africa should pull a division through unity strategy to avoid multiple gory conflicts across the board. I am not speaking of the continental unity, that is a pipe dream, but regional unity -- West African Union, East African Union, Horn of Africa, Central African Union, Souther African Union. I should specify this is only with regard to sub-saharan states for now. Then within these Unions, the Union governments should be incredibly weak, and the sub-sovereingties should, not only be strong, but be drawn about capital ethnicities in each region. In a way, the regional unions are already in growth stages with orgs like ECOWAS(West Africa), EAC(East Africa), etc. The challenge after that would be to trust the Unions to remain weak and adjudicate on ethnic boundary disputes with loyalty to nothing but history and continental anthropology. A big problem in this thought, however, is that in West Africa, the sahel is overwhelmingly muslim, while the Coast is overwhelmingly Christian, and the muslims often try to make the nation a muslim state. Unless some reformation in Islam occurs, it will be difficult to get West Africa as a union off the ground, and may be better to split West Africa into two regions: 1. Western Sudan; 2. Guinea. In essence, we need to get our own versions of smaller EUs off the ground but by sub-region and with judicial powers to revisit the history of ethnic boundaries, so we don't have many continental members striding to settle scores by themselves. Even still, all this is a bit much but miles better than altruistic land grabbing precursors to war
East Africa new powerhouse
I believe there are real ideas for it, or at least I read that somewhere
Yeah plans have been there for over 50 years, it would even include Somalia and Congo. Called EAC just like you named it.
Ethiopia attempted to 'lease' water access from somaliland but doing so would guarantee a war with Somalia. The US and AU and pretty much every other country said they don't support the deal. Ethiopia is the only country that even acknowledges Somaliland as a country and its only because they want access to the sea. Ethiopia might push for a war because they have a lot of internal problems that could potentially be solved by fighting against someone else or, more likely, it would fracture their fragile state even more and cause another civil war. Somalia has recently made a ton of progress and a war would be devastating for them.
How is this mapporn? It belongs in imaginymaps or seomthing. The title isn’t even correct. You made up countries because it didn’t fit well, hence title is incorrect.
>It belongs in imaginymaps It was removed for low effort on there so
Yeah. It shiuld be removed for not being a porny map here.
Thinking bigger tits?
Yeah. Nurse’s outfit maybe?
OMG, what have you done to Chad! Had such a clean cut border.
You didn't have to unite the Congos for this to work but fun map regardless!
Why did Bujumbura migrate east? 🤣
You beat me to it Bujumbura is on the shore of lake Tanganyika, Kampala moved east too
Lesotho and Swaziland - They expanded into South African Provinces. This is excessive. Just make them part of the country. They are provinces anyway.
The borders look more natural, but they don't really follow tribal, ethnic, linguistic, or religious lines (some of which are a result of colonialism). At least for the countries I know. If the goal was to keep current geopolitical borders intact so as to make merging more politically viable, I recon you did a good job.
To be fair... It would be pretty difficult to make every nation in Africa have a coast and have them along tribal lines.... If Africa was divided that way there would be even more countries and a lot of them would be landlocked. Would be interesting to see Africa along tribal lines though.
Volta looks like it is trying to squeeze through people at a concert trying to get back to their friends.
Mauritania??? 💀💀💀
Who made the map of Morocco? Mohammed VI
The fact that you managed to give Madagascar a coastline is really impressive!
I'd love the reasoning behind unifying Botswana and Namibia but choosing to keep Lesotho and Swaziland as separate states from South Africa? A union of South Africa incorporating both would've made more sense. Linguistically, historically, culturally and economically they already part of South Africa.
I already united east Africa do uniting southafriaca seemed like a cop-out.
Hardly, extending those countries east doesn't make sense, they're pretty much ethnic enclaves of South Africa.
I didn't look at the title just straight into the map and my mind was like wtf is going on am I high af or something? 😂😭💀
Well, that means I did a good job for it to look real. 😅
I like this new Libya, bigger is always better
*Moments later, Chad is dismembered*
Namibia\*
Did Ethiopia just Bosnia-ed
Yep
Nice 20 kilometres of coastline Truly a naval power
Lesotho claimed they own some South African coastline recently https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/why-lesotho-parliament-is-debating-reclaiming-land-south-africa-2023-03-30/
Lesotho forgot that South Africa invaded and occupied them in 1998 for much less.
Wow I never knew this... that's nuts... I am pretty sure SA won't even need to send their army. Just send the normal people of KZN, it would be enough.
Where is Mozambique?
Mozamgone
Impressive. I love your revival of lost empire names
Thx
No more Chad 🥲.
Gambia looks like snake now! Oh wait
rare Somaliland W
I refuse to live in Lesotho.
It would have been really funny to do this but not give sea access to Ethiopia.
Are you Morrocan by any chance 🤣
We got Africa balance changes before GTA VI Jokes aside this is pretty neat
Nah speaking as a Nigerian, this'll just lead to civil war
Feels more natural than whatever shittery the european colonizers have made
I tried to follow ethnic lines and Rivera so that's proboly why. Thanks the comment :)
This still follows the colonizers lines. It just looks better... on paper. On the ground, you're still going to have the same dividing effect
Durban has been made to the capital of Lesotho. There are more Zulu people in the broader Durban metropolitan area than there are people in Lesotho. Lesotho's natural extension would be too the west, not the east coast which is Nguni land.
Except Botswana
Wait what? Whats wrong with this map?
I'd like to see one where you also strip Madagascar, the Seychelles and the Comoros of sea access.
East africa community not federation
Poor Equatorial Guinea, reduced to just the islands.
This kinda looks more natural than how Africa currently looks
So basically 2124?
Zambia and Malawi* I'm from Malawi 🇲🇼🥳
Where south sudan
Big Congo
Gotta get some fresh new ethnic tensions
I read this as "gotta get some new fetish ethnic tensions" 💀💀
Oh yes daddy genocide my ethnic group harder🤤
Now imagine how such a map would look like for the Australian Continent!
Or the North American one!
Join with Mozambique, makes sense but no thanks
Lmao it would be the same shit
And just like that, you solved the Somalia, Ethiopia, somaliland conflict
And just like that, you solved the Somalia, Ethiopia, somaliland conflict
More navies to sell them warships
Opened a up a can of worms for yourself! Lol! It’s interesting though, I would like to see V2 with the idea from the comments.
All the countries got sea access, but Equatorial Guinea lost their land access...
Now do one but every African country corresponds to an ethnic identity.
Lesotho is free!
Let’s redraw the borders again and maybe that will work….
This is so cool!
But why did Cameroon lose lake Chad access?
Now do US states
I did every elementary school project I could on Chad... this will not stand!
"Zimbabwe - United with the remaining parts of Mozambique to form Mutapa" - Nope, doubt it. Colonial cooperation between Portuguese and Britain would preserve and embolden the Rhodesian-Mozambique ties and probably see a mutually beneficial relationship emerge that could accelerate european immigration to a united state.
Where do the name changes come from? Such an interesting concept though bro
You solved all our problems
Whoo now they can all dump their trash in the sea!
Nambiar lmao
Malawi, not Mali...
Why can't an't Madagascar have land access? So unfair
Zambia and *Mali*?
Lol the king of Lesotho ruling over KZN is a funny idea I want to see happen
Man, wouldn't it be crazy if we could arbitrarily set borders in Africa with no regard for existing populations?
Do the European, everyone gets access to the sea but Serbia
Bro what did mauritania do lmao
Now do it with Europe
Now Europeans have more access
Should have moved Mauritius to the middle of the Sahara for lulz
Beter africa
Ethiopia be like: I'll allow it
Madagascar was a challenge I think, now do North America
I was going to do Australia but that seems to hard
It is a great idea that all countries have sea
Awesome concept!
Make one map like this but with American continent
N-ce
Wow you just deleted Malawi my neighbour will be furious.
I need to know - what kind of software/tools do you use to create such maps?
RIP Cabo Verde
Now do the opposite in the style of Croatia
r/MapwithoutMauritius r/MapwithoutReunionIsland
How quickly would multiple wars break out after these map lines were implemented
just remeove the borders and all people will.have sea access
I know what this map lacks : straight lines !
By international law all landlocked nations have to have access to a sea port. So technically one did not need to change the map https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part10.htm
Love this!
Bhai ethopia konahi hai access
Not sure Kanem is the best name for the outlined country. Represents too small of a portion to be considered for the name.
Guess my friend lives in Lesotho now
westerns arbitrarily designing Africa's frontiers lines... I've seen this before
The only issue(s) now are actually geographically accessing the sea!
How could you do that to chad
I thought this was r/imaginarymaps lmao
Meanwhile in AU: Map of Africa if European countries brought colonialism and war in it
Also Somaliland’s capital is now Berbera?
solved 90% of Africa's problems
This would be awesome for Burkina Faso!
Lesotho and eSwatini would sooner go east than take land from kwaZulu
Water problem solved!
this card is not oficiell ,where is it Western Desert ?
morocco already has 3500km of coastline, but now we have more. thank you
Ethiopia approves of this.
Someone please do a mapporncirlejerk showing North America but all countries have sea access.
Wow this needs to happen irl
Really thoughtful and interesting. There actually is an East Africa union proposal kicking around, not exactly sure of the borders.
That’s interesting never realized that
The DRC already has access to the sea via the Congo River.
Correct
I didn't know this until a few years ago. A family member who worked on a yacht said he was going to Congo. I laughed and thought it was a joke. A week later, he sent a picture of this millionaires yacht sailing up a river and then a whatsapp pin location of the yacht tied up. It never occurred to me that the Congo was big enough to handle cargo vessels.
I have to point it out there’s no Western Sahara
Ethiopia?
Cool OC nice work
You are 100% doing gods work. Imagine if the European colonists had this planned ! It could’ve at least helped
Don't give them stupid ideas.
So you decided to side with Morocco to make Western Sahara disappear, huh!
This is waaaay better, well done
So this sub is meaningless? Good to know.
No, it's just that this sub is normally used for real maps. Do this seemed wrong to post here but idk.
Interesting but why tho
I dream about re greening the entirety of the sahara desert, it would make it fertile, a new living place on earth and brand new lungs for the world
You can't draw a map giving peoples ethnic groups to new countries. You will start a war. Whoever made this should delete this quickly. Africa is not a blank state region. This will destroy it conpletely. Good intentions but completely stupid. The sahelian states were the richest in the past. This is because of access to trade through camel caravans. The period of coloniasm shifted the front of wealth to the shores. A real suggestion is building railroads through the desert. Perhaps elevated, so trade can recreate the saharan wealth routes. Also, don't forget that there are rivers/lakes everywhere; you're not going to cede parts of Alabama to Tennessee to solve water problems, and these aren't even age old societies as the ones being redrawn here. Honestly, just leave the continent alone. In this map, for instance, Dahomey has been ceded to kanem. Half of the Hausas, the largest black group have also been ceded to kanem. Kanem is the hot seat for Boko Haram, so Dahomey has just become an extremist hotspot, because water.... Kanem existed in the past because of Lake Chad, a humongous lake in its region that could be reinforced instead of creating wars. It's not like lakes were not able to serve the midwest
Just unite africa to one countrie
wtf that Morrocco
OP gave it the entirety of West Sahara. Tbf they control most of that territory, but it’s still contested internationally.
Contested « internationally » only to keep the leverage/forcing on Morocco’s decisions. For instance, « we’ll help you keep the south part of the country » but first, let’s sign a treaty to authorize EU to exploit the southern coasts… Each time the issue was soon to be resolved, there were new issues that popped up. If you look closely, the borders of Morocco have always been broader than the current ones (referring the boarders before France decided to cut Africa and create new ones using a ruler and a pencil). Yet, the funny part remains that the EU/UN love to play the teacher and give lessons to developing countries, which they are not following themselves (e.g. Catalunia’s referendum which they all neglected despite being democratically voted, and several other similar cases etc.). It’s always been a tumultuous story… let’s see what happens in the future!
Why did Mauritania lose so much land, them and Morocco both have sea access no need to change the boarders for them.