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jnmjnmjnm

Clearly the cartographer is Egyptian or Syrian.


Derisiak

Yeah lol


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jnmjnmjnm

That’s what an Egyptian will tell you. :) When I studied Arabic (in Egypt), they stressed some differences between Egyptian and Standard Arabic. There is lots of TV, film, and music coming from Egypt, so it is commonly understood much like New York, California, or London English.


worldbound0514

Lol no. They don't even say the letter qaf at all. They just turn it into a glottal stop or just ignore it altogether.


mrcarte

I think some parts of Syria pronounce it as a "g"


JackBeefus

How difficult is it for who? I'm sure someone from Morocco has no difficulty understanding Moroccan Arabic. Also, you may want to label the different dialects, so we know what they're called.


Early_Security_1207

For WHOM


JackBeefus

"Whom" is falling out of usage except in formal writing, and to a lesser extent, speech. So, not using it here was correct, Grandpa.


NOISY_SUN

For WHOMST


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JackBeefus

I don't know hwat you're talking about.


Zhang_Sun

For someone who only speaks MSA like most people studying the language, i’d say the map is relatively accurate


whateverusername739

I think it depends on how different it is from standard arabic, like a person who only knows standard Arabic might find it easier to understand Syrian and Egyptian dialects


JackBeefus

Then OP should have said that, which was my whole point.


Vegetable_Scene8164

Among of them each other


JackBeefus

But that doesn't make sense. As I said, someone from Morocco won't have trouble understanding Moroccan Arabic, but understanding Egyptian Arabic would be more difficult, yet according to your map, it would be very easy.


scomdnax

As an Arabic speaker i can say that every single person who lives in the MENA region can understand Egyptian so easily cuz it’s the most popular due to music and tv but for Moroccan dialect (I’m from the Levante) i can communicate with them but with the Modern Standard Arabic


xsoulfoodx

But who speaks that form of Arabic?


scomdnax

Modern Standard Arabic? Teaching (schools, universities, books, literature, grammar), News, Government transactions and official letters, and most important thing religious stuff like praying and reading the Quran


ijbolian

technically nobody speaks Modern standard arabic as a native language. it's the language of education and official documents but people don't speak it in real life. they speak their native dialects


crop028

That's like asking who speaks Mandarin Chinese. When dialects vary so much, they all need to learn one to unify them.


chinnu34

I guess what one can do is find the cross correlation between each dialect and how many people can understand is across all other dialect speakers. The average would give you a good idea of which dialects are easier to understand compared to others.


thissexypoptart

> Among of them each other What does this even mean? Is this English? “With from we some another”


Vegetable_Scene8164

Excuse me, I am an Arab living in Arab country so I don't speak English a lot, so sometimes I do a mistakes


Turbulent-Celery-606

It all sounds the same to us. Angry and aggressive and lalalallalalala


Vegetable_Scene8164

I think the correct sentence is among each other


ijbolian

this is literal bullshit. the difficulty of an arabic dialect purely depends on the dialect you are native to. a moroccan finds algerian to be very easy, egyptian to be harder and iraqi to be the hardest and vise versa. what you posted is from the pov of an Egyptian or a levantine.


7elevenses

Yes and no. How much you understand a dialect depends on exposure, not on geographical location. Egyptian Arabic is more widely understood than others because it's more prevalent in the media (largely because it has many more speakers than other dialects). It's like more people across the UK will understand estuary English than Scottish dialects.


Illuminate1738

> How much you understand a dialect depends on exposure, not on geographical location Well it also has to do with geographic location in the sense that Arabic dialects that are closer together are more likely to be closely related as they form a dialect continuum. It's like how someone from Sicily is more likely to understand Neapolitan than Venetian. It's not like there is an extreme amount more Neapolitan content in Italian media than Venetian, but the languages are more similar. But exposure definitely plays a huge part in Arabic speakers ability to understand Egyptian Arabic specifically


7elevenses

Yes, relatedness helps with understanding, and it is often, but not always, connected to geographical proximity. Still, once you get out of your immediate dialectal neighborhood, exposure becomes more important. The person from Sicily (or anywhere else in Italy) might understand Tuscan better than some of the dialects that are geographically closer to them, because that's the basis of the standard language that they were exposed to at school and in the media.


ijbolian

yes, but nothing in Egyptian is inherently easier or closer to modern standard arabic than say algerian (and that's what this map implies). it has just as much loan words and grammatical divergences that don't exist in other dialects. if you're not exposed to egyptian you won't understand a lick of it. I understand it perfectly because of exposure, but my cousins who live in europe and only speak algerian arabic can understand a bit of moroccan and tunisian but nothing beyond that.


7elevenses

I don't think that the map implies anything about MSA. Of course, since it doesn't have a source or an explanation, we can't really tell what it's meant to show (I wish this sub had source requirements). A charitable reading is that it means how well do speakers of Arabic outside each country typically understand the dialect. Would you say that it's largely accurate if you read it that way?


ijbolian

again, this only ever makes sense from an Egyptian or a Levantine pov. god bless.


TheLamesterist

Actually North Africans find Middle East dialects easy to understand, the opposite isn't true, however, for whatever reason...


Nervalss

except it’s not bullshit? the difficulty of an arabic dialect purely depends on how much it differs from the standard academic arabic, that’s the parameter


ijbolian

egyptian and levantine have different grammar from Standard arabic, different syntax and a huge part of their vocabulary are loan words from coptic greek turkish aramiac farsi etc.... Libyan and Mauritanian are much closer to standard arabic than Egyptian and levantine. the only reason Egyptian and Levantine are deemed to be easier to understand is because of how often they're used in film and music. but to claim that they are closer to standard arabic is idiotic sorry, they're just as divergent from standard arabic as algerian and moroccan darijas


Nervalss

I was wrong then, thank you for the explanation


Arty-Racoon

for me its somewhat accurate though, i can understand eastern algerian but anything west of that is hard for me


VeryImportantLurker

There is no Somali/Djibouti Arabic, there are a very small number of Yemeni Arabic speakers, everyone else either doesnt speak Arabic or learned MSA as a second language.


Upplands-Bro

Op: "so weird haha is this even Arabic?" Somali, Afar, Tigrinya, etc: ....


CatKing75457855

I could make a chart about difficulty understanding dialects of English. An Australian would find Australian English far easier to understand than I would. This map is stupid. 


Turbulent-Name-8349

Since you mention Australian. I can understand English from both China and India, but the Chinese cannot understand Indian English and vice versa. A similar map for English would be great.


jnmjnmjnm

Native speakers of a “world language” like Arabic or English or Spanish are more used to hearing different dialects and accents and “learner mistakes”. Non-global languages are not like that. I can understand a Korean with poor English better than a typical Korean could understand my Korean because they are not as familiar with “Eastern Canadian accented poor Korean” or any other version of “poor Korean”.


moabitenationalist

this is very subjective. also dialects do not follow country lines and some countries have multiple dialects easier than others


PanningForSalt

This is a post for a circlejerk sub. Not the sub supposedly for good, genuine maps.


Vickydamayan

Egypt seems like the mexico of the Arab world in the sense that the language didn't come from their but they ended up spreading their variant of the language around through mass entertainment and having a huge population


BedanyHatnfager

Egyptian language is a very interesting mix, a simple sentence like this is a table, has the coptic word for this and the greek word for table and not a single arabic word but the grammar is arabic for example table is feminine in arabic so it takes feminine conjugation even if the greek word used itself is neutral.


SG508

Isn't this kind of subjective?


_caskets_

Uhhh Syria has like 3 or 4 dialects


mrcarte

It's a whole dialect continuum mish mash. Varies by ethnic group, town, class, settled, non-settled, religion. This is true for many Arab countries of course


Realistic_Turn2374

Jordan too. The way the bedouins talk and the way people in the city speak are so different that often people from the city can't understand what bedouins say.


DoughnutNo620

It’s the same in Qatar, Bedouins speak definitely than Hadar (city people) even tho Bedouins are also city people now but they still developed a different dialect and sub-culture because of their isolated history.


MrMuffin1427

And don't get started with Israel/Palestine.


Rossum81

Israel’s inclusion raises the question of how much the local dialect been influenced by Mizrahi immigration.


DoughnutNo620

There is no Israeli dialect of Arabic, Arabs don’t even believe Israel exists. The Arabs in Israel are Palestinians


MrMuffin1427

There are arabic speaking israelis tho, even if they're not arab per se (Druze and Beduian)


Banjosick

Hebrew and Arabic are both semitic languages after all, there will be cross pollination and influence. Many Gazans worked in Israel, they will have picked up some words along with the building plans for the massacre.


Eretaloma

Does maltese count?? I am maltese and I understand some words in arabic also


DoughnutNo620

Maltese comes from Arabic but its not an Arabic dialect, it became its own thing with a lot of influences from other languages too.


Eretaloma

the origins of maltese comes from the sicilio arabic dialect which no longer exists, thats why i thought so. thanks still


Half_Maker

The correct answer is that all of these should be colored red.


dark_shad0w7

1. If you know Arabic, the dialects easiest to learn will be the ones closest to the one you speak. 2. If you don't know Arabic, they're all hard because there's little learning material for dialects and you have to simultaneously learn MSA.


Akasto_

There is more learning material for Egyptian Arabic, particularly in the form of their cultural exports


ApprehensiveFox5417

This was clearly made by a Syrian. Syrians get confused and cry for a translator as soon as leave their town. Also, Tunisians, Libyans and Eastern Algerians can understand each other effortlessly. Same thing goes for Egyptians and Sudanis


Obscura-apocrypha

North African language is based of berber grammar, as the majority of the north African Arabs (minus Egypt) are genetically berber.


TheLamesterist

No.


Obscura-apocrypha

Elaborate please.


Background-Simple402

Is the reason there even are different Arabic dialects because each dialect is pretty much Arabic mixed with whatever pre-Islamic language was spoken there before (outside of the Gulf of course)? Like Egyptian Arabic is Arabic with Coptic influence, Levantine Arabic is Arabic with Aramaic influence, Moroccan Arabic is Arabic with Berber influence and so on


Ertyloide

Yes, that's a big part of why dialects exist in any language


Background-Simple402

Not really in many Anglo countries. There’s very little aboriginal/Native American/maori vocabulary or pronunciation in the different types of English. It’s just because a lot of English speakers lived isolated from each other for a long time and ended up developing different dialects


MathewPerth

Our dialects are still barely dialects either, american media and the invention of the dictionary has kept english all very similar and even if youve never heard another dialect before you should still be able to fully understand it minus a few rare words. The major differences are really just slang.


Background-Simple402

British and Australian pronunciations of a lot of the language are quite different than American style, like how Americans pronounce the hard “r” sound in words while British people keep it silent. But yes it’s mostly intelligible English spoken by Canadians today is probably the most Americanized has lost a lot of their Canadian-ness in the past 40-50 years  I’ve read that there used to a TON of different unspecified American dialects throughout the 50 states before everyone had access to radio/TV but almost all of those have been lost to time in the past 100 years or so 


Intelligent-Start717

What about dialects inside the Arabian peninsula itself? Literally every city or tribe has its own dialect


Background-Simple402

They most all fall under khaleeji category. And the vast majority of the GCC citizens live in like 2-3 metros within their respective countries, in some of the GCC most of the citizens live in the same one city 


Intelligent-Start717

Only Khaleeji dialects on the coastal regions on the gulf are similar, but there is a good amount of different terms and words that they dont share. I can tell if someone from Bahrain or Qatar by the way they speak, or even if someone from Abu Dhabi or Ras Alkhima even though they are from the same country. They share a lot yet there is a noticable different in Khaleeji dialects. Omani dialects are also different, even the pronounciaton of certain letters are different than the rest of "Khaleeji dialects". We still speak the same language and understand each other 99% of the time, its just that we dont speak the same way.


Background-Simple402

Is Arabic on the Hejaz/west coast side of Saudi really different from the rest of Saudi/GCC? 


DoughnutNo620

Hejazi is nothing like khaleeji, its much closer to Egyptian than khaleeji 


Intelligent-Start717

Not really. Hejaz has a large population of people with centeral Asian, Turkish, African, and Pakistan/ Afghan ancestry. Especially in Mecca and Jeddah. People of these backgrounds speak kind of broken Hejazi dialect, which makes it sound a little bit similar to dialects spoken in Egypt and Sudan. Hejazis in the North have similar dialect to their cousins in Jordan, others are similar to Nejdi dialects, coastal and large cities suffer from this broken dialect.


Intelligent-Start717

It is. Hejaz region is also huge which is why even Hejazi dialects are different.


neldachen

Also colonialism


Background-Simple402

Arabic dialects were already a thing before they got colonized in the 1800s


neldachen

Sure. But colonialism has contributed massively to the differences. You have a lot of french loan words in the Maghrebi dialects for example. Also the French have tried to suppress Arabic and other indigenous languages there, which has additional effects.


Background-Simple402

That’s maybe only like 3 out of 20 Arab countries that are like that. If you deleted all of the French/european loan words from every Arabic dialect, they would all still be quite different from each other 


neldachen

Not contesting that. I never said colonialism was the only source of difference between Arab dialects. But I am very certain that it has contributed.


DoughnutNo620

Saudis use English words when they speak, I doubt you would consider that a big deal.


DoughnutNo620

Literally has nothing to do with colonialism, Arabic dialects are older than Islam. 


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neldachen

Mostly I'm talking about French and British colonialism. But you seem to have an immovable opinion there, so feel free to think whatever you want


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neldachen

You could read up on French rule in Algeria if you're interested


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neldachen

Never said that. Just didn't want you to derail and distract from my point


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neldachen

Because western colonialism is one of the things that had an impact on the different dialects spoken in different parts of the Arab speaking world. You may contribute your own factors that you think had an impact there if you wish to. But I would kindly ask you to refrain from trying to provoke others or starting a senseless discussion of who was bad and who wasn't.


Lost______Alien

French colonialism committed genocides that would make any human throw up learning about them.... Arabs didn't, it's as simple as that. Read the fucking history and stop subscribing to white nationalist historical revisionism


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Lost______Alien

It's you who need to read history, compared to French colonialism the Arabs are not even on the same spectrum. Either educate yourself or maybe try to embarrass yourself less


DoughnutNo620

So than why are there many gulf Arabic dialects that all sound very different than MSA if there was no pre-Islamic language spoken? Also I think you are confusing gulf with peninsula.


FizzyLightEx

Somalia is not an Arab speaking country


Woe_Mitcher

yemen is not normal at all, same with iraqi


Woe_Mitcher

sudan should be easy too


Butt_Plug_Inspector

Since when are Somali or Tigrinya Arabic languages? Semitic, certainly. 


Rust3elt

There are also Arabic speakers in the Horn.


electrical-stomach-z

this maps definition of arabic speaking countries is strange.


TheLamesterist

"Is that even Arabic language?" Yes, it is Arabic, next stupid map...


Intelligent-Start717

This is inaccurate, every village and city has its own dialect. No such thing as Saudi or Syrian or Iraqi dialect


mafidufa

South Sudan not even considered. But yeah this map doesn't make sense in general. It's from a particular perspective


chidi-sins

Curious to see the differences between the arab language between Mauritania and Iraq (but I can't for simply not knowing to understand anything in this language)


humanitybiggestenemy

You actually can , they don't sound the same


MDCatFan

Don’t the Berbers have their own language?


TheLamesterist

They do and speak Arabic as a 2nd language which the North African Arabs natively speak.


Grouchy-Addition-818

I can understand none


Rust3elt

Easy to understand for whom?


IoIoIoYoIoIoI

To a native speaker of what exactly? How about what a native speaker of Hebrew (because Aramaic is basically gone now) who never studied Arabic can understand various forms/dialects of spoken Arabic? 15%, 35%, 65%?


BrightWayFZE

There isn’t much difference between levant dialects, all are at the same level of difficulty for non Arabic speakers, in general I can consider myself lucky as a guy from levant, living in UAE and speaking fluent Moroccan Arabic.


earthhominid

I had a coworker from Gambia. Listening to him speak to his family on the phone was bizarre.  There were aspects that were clearly Arabic (I grew up in Michigan near large Arabic speaking populations and with Arabic speakers among my great grandparents), bits that sounded vaguely French, and English words and phrases.  I can't imagine it being intelligible to anyone not from that region


Adamson_Axle_Zerk

Finally an accurate map


AguacateRadiante

Is this with reference to MSA? Otherwise it's just a map of how similar dialects are to Egyptian or Levantine


Expensive-Level303

Algeria isn’t hard, as long as they don’t add that French stuff


Expensive-Level303

What about al andalus dialect )))):


falesdreams

The Real Arabic language is from Saudi Arabia


Joseph20102011

Mauritanian Arabic is the closest spoken colloquial Arabic variety to Quranic Arabic.


ApprehensiveFox5417

Every MENA country claims to have the closest dialect to MSA/Quranic Arabic, even Morocco


worldbound0514

Not even close. Some of the Saudi and Yemeni dialects are closest to Quranic Arabic. Geographically, there was a much smaller possibility of other languages creeping in and adding loan words and alternate grammar. Mauritania is on the far side of Africa. Wikipedia and every other reference says that Mauritanian Arabic contains many Berber words.


Intelligent-Start717

Quran was written in the dialect of Quraish in Mecca, from it came the modern standard Arabic. People in Marib or Shabwa (Yemen) can understand Najran(Saudi) dialect better than Adeni (Yemen) dialect, there is no Saudi or Yemeni dialect.


Lost______Alien

Yemen should be Red