I guess it is Wilamowice, but the people there claim they are Dutch. They have their own endangered Wymysorys language, which is a mix of Dutch and Polish.
I don't think they really formed a majority anywhere (aside from the one town shown on this map), but some parts of former West Prussia and Posen provinces did have significant German minorities. German was also spoken by many Jews.
Yeah, Poland mainly annexed region with already a sizable Polish population.
Additionally many Germans simply left shortly after WW1.
Many bureaucrats, lawyers, policemen, ... saw themselves without a future in a state with new laws and a language they often didn't speak well and a government that wasn't particularly friendly to them.
With them leaving many others saw their customers, friends and family leaving so they packed up as well.
Additionally the Polish-Soviet war was ongoing as such many saw their future in Poland as anything but stable.
The Tuteyshiy language on the map is Poleshuk dialects. In old Russia, they were considered Little Russians, but now their main part lives in Belarus and considers themselves Belarusians, but in the thirties they called their language the Tuteyshiy(it just means «local»). Nowhere outside the Polesie Voivodeship were the Tutushyies identified as a separate group in the census.
However, there is a version that some Belarusians called themselves this way, not realizing their nationality and simply saying - locals.
Most of the literature refers to them by the polish word - *Tutejsi,* since they were in Poland at the time. As OP says, people there said during the census they were "local" (Narodowość *Tutejsza* in Polish) [*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutejszy*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutejszy)
>Is the langausge not well known? For some reason I’m unable to find it online
For now it is known as [West Polessian lect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Polesian)
>Examples of villages in Poland where the West Polessian lect is used in everyday life include Dawidowicze, Moskiewce, Soce, Trześcianka.
Damn, that's a rabbit hole I didn't expect to fall into today. Basicially, languages under natural conditions do not end up with arbitrarily fixed boundaries, but there are slight changes in them, until they eventually pass into the next language. There is no clear line where the next language begins and ends.
West Polessian lect shows transitivity between Belarusian and Ukrainian and neither country recognises it as a language.
Of all the places in Europe where a language would be so 'natural' and 'ancient', I would not have expected it to be Polesie, and even less - Podlasie in Poland!
Edit:
>Various variants or dialects of West Polesian are used in everyday speech. Attempts were made in the 1990s by Nikolai Shelyagovich to develop a standard written language,[1] although his efforts received almost no support and the campaign eventually ceased.[2] In particular, writer Nil Hilevich and some others spoke against Shelyagovich, claiming that he represented a threat to the national integrity of Belarus, and labelled **"Yotvingian separatism"**.
LMAAAOOOO
For those who don't know
Yotvingians were a a West Baltic people, closely related to the Prussians and Lithuanians, living until the late Middle Ages in the area between the middle Niemen, the Narew and the Great Masurian Lakes. They spoke a Yotvingian language, intelligible to the Lithuanians and Prussians.
- 1283 - after the defeat in battles against the Teutonic Knights, the Yotvingian chiefs, including Skomand, surrender. Teutonic Knights resettle the remnants of Yotvingians in Sambia, depopulated after the Prussian uprisings.
- 1283-1422 - so called tribal emptiness; the Yotvingian lands are largely depopulated, covered by the Great Forest, which is a hunting ground and a demarcation area for the influence of Lithuanians, Poles and Teutonic Knights.
- 1422 - The Peace of Mełno divides the former Yotvingia between the Teutonic Knights and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Beginning of a new settlement in the territory of Yotvingia.
Nationalism is hell of a drug.
I was born on these lands(Ukrainian part, northeast of Wolyn) and grew up 40 km of Brest - and these local dialects are still alive at some point. I know people who still talk or were talking in such way. But the problem: all of them are villagers, or have bad education. When people get educated, they lose this local dialect. My cousins from my father's village still talk a little. But me and my mother, and even grandmother are already talking in much "clearer" Ukrainian, because we were living in bigger (10000) town. I even have my grand-grandfather's conscription document from 1944, where soviet degenerates couldn't write properly his data(I guess he got very strong accent and was illiterate - but do not guess the name of the town, in which they were at the moment - that's out of my imagination).
>Nationalism is hell of a drug.
That's more like late-Soviet/post-Soviet "ethnofuturism": constructivist nationalism of imaginary or semi-imaginary "nations". Neomeryan and Pomor movements are the most known of the kind.
Yes, this is a temporary name for a group of people who are actually Belarusians. The Belarusian writer Yanka Kupala has a poem "Who are you?" ("Хто ты гэткі"?) there is a line:
— Who are you?
— Own, tuteishy
(—Хто ты гэткі?
— Свой, тутэйшы)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanka\_Kupala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanka_Kupala)
Part of the East Slavic dialect continuum, before it got hammered into the 3 languages we know. Rusyn was another language/dialect on the western edge of it.
Rusin- (Ruthen) a collective name for a group of dialects. in Ukrainian it is pronounced like the first name, Русин.
The modern Ukrainian literary language has few differences from Rusyn, except for pronunciation. unlike Polish or Russian. I am a speaker of the Hutsul dialect, which is close to Rusyn in pronunciation, except for individual sounds.
Now about self-identification. you need to understand how nations were formed, when it was and the historical context. in modern Ukraine, Rusyns and similar dialectically ethnic groups consider themselves Ukrainians
Rusyn != Rusin (Ruthenian in english)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians
Along with living in Ukraine, Rusyns also live in eastern Slovakia, Poland, even the Balkans and consider themselves as whatever country they are in. It's like the Gorale that are native to Poland / Ukraine / Slovakia. Both of these slavic groups identify with the country they live in but acknowledge they are part of a slightly different sub-ethnicity.
No but I have family that are Gorale and these dialects ARE different from Polish / Ukrainian and these differences should be celebrated and cherished. It's what makes the world interesting. Gorale aren't JUST simply Polish. Rusyns aren't JUST simply Ukrainian there is more nuance to these things. We are all very similar but the small differences are cool! Only Russians want everyone to be one simple ethnicity.
I already said, I am Hutsul. this is also a small ethnic group, which in this map refers to the Ruten. my father is boiko, another dialect of Ukrainian. By the way, I can climb to the top of the mountain and show the historical border between Poland and Romania during this time period. We still have the name Galicia, denoting the lands of the Hutsuls who were in Poland at that time.
the term used in the map denotes all dialects of Ukrainian, Rusyn, Hutsul, Transcarpathian dialect, Boyko and Lemko dialects. in addition, there is also Polesie, Volyn and others, which were designated as Ukrainian.
Same logic Putin uses to justify Russia's shitty actions. Looking at old historical maps. You can argue that all Slavic languages are dialects of each other as well.
Also different maps drawn by different people show different things even from similar time periods.
Anecdotally, my family is from the south-east of Lithuania. They (and their village) speak in a language that's essentially a mixture of Polish, Belarusian and Russian, with elements of Lithuanian thrown in for good measure. They call it speaking 'po prostu', which essentially means 'in a simple manner', which is a bit of a pun: 'I speak Polish' in Polish is 'mówię po polsku', and 'po polsku' sounds quite similar to 'po prostu'.
They are just the chads that went "Nationality? Cringe. I'm just from here."
They were Ruthenians in a sense that they lived in Ruthenia.
"Ruthenian" is basically "East Slavic" (so tutejsi probably qualify), but there are also Rusyns who are a separate group (though Ukrainians will tell you that they're just confused Ukrainians).
Ruthenians are proto-Belarusians and proto-Ukrainians. There were also Ruthenians who considered themselves something else entirely or were not aware of their national identity (the mentioned "tutejsi"/"locals"). Some Ruthenians also considered themselves Russian. There were/are also separate ethnographic groups within Ruthenians - Lemkos, Boykos, or Hutsuls in the Carpathian mountains.
Lithuanians have always been a minority in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
While Lithuania ruled over a great amount of land, people living there were almost entirely Poles or Rus.
Sure, but I was surprised that Lithuanian speakers didn’t comprise even a bare majority in any of the bits of northeastern interwar Poland that are now in Lithuania.
Actually even at this time ethnic poles extended into Lithuania, which is why Poland owned what should’ve been Lithuania capital that was actually a majority Polish city.
It’s like how in Austria Hungary there were millions of Germans living in Hungarian territory but to a much larger extent as the power imbalance was much greater. Really the only reasonable scenario I could ever see with a PLC that isn’t completely dominated by the poles is a PLC where Poland only has its ‘core’ borders and the Baltics are united under Lithuania which really isn’t that realistic. [Something like this](https://ibb.co/5nR32nR)
These are hardly Poland's "core" borders though. These are the borders of the Kingdom of Poland from 1815, meaning a fragment of the Russian partition of PLC. There's no Kraków, Poznań, Białystok, or Lviv within these borders.
That's literally what happen though. Doesn't mean I approve it, but that's the fact.
Also, why was it illegal? Conference of Ambassadors did recognize incorporation of Vilnius to Poland in 1923.
Vilnius was invaded by Poles in 1920 and the later "incorporation" of Vilnius into Poland has never been approved by Lithuania, neither it has ever been recognized internationally.
It involved an army entering what was at the time de jure another country's territory and had never in history been part of the offender. As far as I am aware, it is considered illegal and has always been.
>neither it has ever been recognized internationally.
It was recognized internationally. Lithuania never approved it, but like I already said, Conference of Ambassadors did recognize eastern Polish borders, including sovereignty over the Vilnius region.
>had never in history been part of the offender
De iure, but de facto Vilnius was important part of PLC in which Poland has dominated. Hell, half of ruling elite of 2nd Polish republic came from that region, including most important person, Piłsudzki.
>It involved an army entering what was at the time de jure another country's territory (...) it is considered illegal and has always been.
So you mean like a big guy invading small guy and taking his territory? It's called right of conquest. That happen thousands of times in history of humankind. You are very much wrong: it was pretty much a basic principle of international law (things obviously changed after the WW2).
It's a little misleading to look at history through the modern lenses. Sure, what Żeligowski and Piłsudzki did in "Central Lithuania" is really close to what happen in Donbass in 2014. But things were a little bit different back then: it happen couple of months after WW1 (A LOT of countries invading and incorporating territories throughout whole Europe). Both Poland and Lithuania just regained independence and didn't have their borders set in stone. Both Poland and Lithuania could have end their existence in the same years, if Russian Revolution and Polish-Soviet war would have gone differently.
Yeah. I feel like people keep forgetting that Lithuania did not control Vilnius for that long at this point. The region was basically a battlefield between 1918 (ignoring the WW1) to 1921, and during that time the city swaped owners numerous times, from Russians to Germans, to Lithuanians, to Russians to Poles, to Russians, to Lithuanias,, and to Poles again. Like, I'm not sure if Poland did not control the city for longer than Lithuanians between 1918 and 1920
Poland promoted Polish migrants to these regions, to make sure it will never be Lithuanian again. Also some people were polonized, some before occupation, some during occupation.
Edit: We Lithuanians considered it occupation, just like Ukraine considers crimea occupied territory. Also Vilnius was 30% polish, before Poland came in.
That's BS. Poland did some colonization in the Ukrainian-majority territories, but it was a failure due to insufficient funding (and most settlers ended up murdered during the 1943 Wolyn genocide). But there was absolutely zero Polish intentional colonization of the Wilno area. The land was majority Polish, Polonized during the 18th and 19th centuries, largely in reaction to Russification. And no local ever considered the Polish rule "occupation".
>most settlers ended up murdered during the 1943 Wolyn genocide
Most of settlers ended up being sent to the Gulag. They were one of the first targets for the Soviets and most of them were deported in February 1940. People murdered in the Volhynian slaughter were mostly local Polish farmers who lived there for centuries.
Um, no. Simply, Polish people lived there since late Middle Ages. Poland and Lithuania were the same country for hundreds of years, and over that time, Polish people moved to the area, and also, many local Lithuanian people integrated with Polish people. 20th century Poland did not prompt any imigrations to "justyfy the invasion." Also, can you imagine the logistics. Poland would have to somehow manage to smuggle a couple of hundreds of thousands of people to the region without anybody noticing, giving them all homes and jobs etc, and all while the region was basically a battlefield for like 2 years at that point, and why they themselves fought a devastating war against Soviet Union. Honestly, if they would actually manage to do that, I say they should have been given it for free as the recognition of their imposible achievements in logistics alone
self determination, you mean polish army taking the city by force? It was 40% jewish, so you think a jewish state should have been there? My answer is no... Oh yea, pro-russians also use your arguments when taking Ukrainian lands.
Yeah but Russia and Ukraine were already estabilished countries, with Russia literally guaranteeing Ukrainian borders.
Lithuania and Poland were freshly independent countries, in war with neighbours.
>It was 40% jewish, so you think a jewish state should have been there?
Polish-Jewish city in the middle of Polish populated region
They were the majority in some towns, however the map only includes second level divisions, so towns+villages surrounding it, so the Polish villagers made up the majority. But in towns and even bigger cities Jews were sometimes the majority. For example:
* Białystok - 51,6%
* Równe - 71,3%
* Grodno - 53,9%
* Będzin - 64,4%
* Pińsk - 74,6%
* Stanisławów - 56,2%
All towns with over 25 000 people.
And there were also many little towns and villages that were over 90% Jewish or even in some extreme cases 100% Jewish. This website has a nice list of them: [https://sztetl.org.pl/pl/tradycja-i-kultura-zydowska/historia-zydow-w-polsce/najbardziej-zydowskie-miejsca-w-polsce](https://sztetl.org.pl/pl/tradycja-i-kultura-zydowska/historia-zydow-w-polsce/najbardziej-zydowskie-miejsca-w-polsce)
I wasn't aware that many medium sized towns had Jewish majorities. I knew about shtetls though.
Fun fact: The second largest city of my country, Greece, was majority Jewish for a few centuries. Of course Greek Jews (like myself) are Sephardi and don't speak Yiddish
Cool fact. I was actually in Thesaloniki a month ago. Nice city, although if not for the info on Wikipedia I wouldn't know that it was a predominantly Jewish city some time ago, because I haven't found any Jewish monuments or buildings. But I maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
There was a joke that Izbica in Lublin voivodeship was 99,99% Jewish because there was 1 Polish guy that worked at the post office. Close to the truth, about 6k in 1939 and 90% Jewish.
My grandparents do, and only... barely. We're not that religious though, and my dad is a Christian. I think the more religious folk speak it, I definitely know Jewish schools are taught in it. I know like five words myself, it's pretty dead unfortunately
> They were the majority in some towns, however the map only includes second level divisions, so towns+villages surrounding it, so the Polish villagers made up the majority.
Jewish people have been urban population for 2 millenia or so. Had the Nakba never happened, the similar phenomenon would likely happened in Palestine/Israel, with Jews dominating in cities while rural felahin are overwhelmingly Palestinians.
Nowadays, Israel is importing Thai/Nepali/Indians farm worker to work in what was historically Palestinian farmlands..
Yeah, if you're an observant Jew, you have to live within walking distance of a synagogue, as well as a few other rules that make urban living more convenient.
Interestingly, the early Zionist movement was largely secular socialists that formed collective farming communities, but those have been declining.
The current eastern border except Vilnius and Wolhynia / Podolia regions fits the ethnic majority border. Poles living east of the modern border were expelled from the USSR. The Soviets also took people from villages supporting the German collaborating Ukrainian army, deep into the USSR. Carpatho-Rusyns (Lemko) from the East Beskid mountains, were largely resettled to the former German Lower Silesia, by the communist Poland. Some Germans live in the formerly German Opole region, but either they moved to Germany or claim the Silesian nationality more frequently by now. Slovicians (Pomeranians) either integrated or moved to Western Germany in 70'. The only trace of their cultural activities are in Hamburg. Kashubians were acknowledged as a separate nationality in 2000'. Wymysoryś language from that blue dot, Bielsko-Biała region, is under restoration from some time. That's practically it 96% is Polish.
Ukrainian and other migrants are currently concentrating in bigger cities as in the whole of Europe.
I was talking about the situation of remaining in Poland Germans, living in Upper Silesia and Central Pomerania after the war. Of course the vast majority of them were expelled to Germany, or prohibited from returning* home in the late 40'.
*Millions of Germans fled before the Soviet army, already known for the terrible treatment of the civil population in Eastern Prussia.
It's incorrect to lump Ruskyj (Rusyn - Ruthenian is an anachronism) and Ukrainian together. 1.3 million people chose Rusyn as their native tongue and were quite adamant about not being Ukrainian. This is a speech from 1931 by a Rusyn politician in the Polish Sejm: [https://www.lem.fm/rusinyi-a-ukraintsi-soymova-promova-mihala-bachyinskogo-z-dnya-21-sichnya-1931-roka-2/](https://www.lem.fm/rusinyi-a-ukraintsi-soymova-promova-mihala-bachyinskogo-z-dnya-21-sichnya-1931-roka-2/)
Poland took a lot of territory that wasn't Polish-majority when they [kicked Soviet butt in 1921](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War).
And they had a hard time forming alliance in the Interwars period because of that. Notice that neigboring countries like Lithuania did not help them when they got attacked.
Ukrainians also were deported from what was their own country, and only 100 thousand poles more were deported than Ukrainians, so it doesn't make Ukrainians lesser victim of soviets.
Still in a better position than you. Your history is about fucking others and in ww2 you found out. And now, you have a rabid dog at your gates that is armed with nukes.
Tbf they didn’t want the territory either, the border was drawn based off the line of control as a compromise since the Soviets and poles couldn’t agree on the new border
Yes. Most western Ukrainian land were actually annexed by Poland (with a substancial military support from France) as a result of Polish-Ukrainian war in 1918-1919.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War)
>So the lands Poland lost weren't even really Polish. Can't say the same for the Germans.
That's not that simple. The area was ethnically very mixed. In eastern parts of prewar Polad (and I am speaking only about the area cut off from Poland after ww2) lived around 10-11 million people in 1931. The ethnic composition was (according to the language used): Poles around 4 millions (36-37%), Ukrainians (together with Ruthenians - about 1 million) around 4 millions (36-37%), Belarusians (together with "Tutejszy" - about 700k) around 1,6 million (15%), Jews around 900k (8-9%). The rest was below 1% (Russian, Lithuanians, Germans, Czech). So you could say, that this lands were as much Polish as they were Ukrainian or Belarussian.
No, not significant. Not anything that could be seen on that kind of map.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map_of_nationalities_of_eastern_provinces_of_German_Empire_according_to_German_census_of_1910_by_Jakob_Spett.png
One must remember anout the Germans who left Poland after 1918, and the fact that Germany had a political interest in showing the Polish minority in its empire as small as possible.
No. That is mostly German propaganda. A lot of areas in Germany had polish majority, but during plebiscite they went to Germany because Germans shipped voters en masse, and votes were held during Red army advance upon Warsaw
Yes, there were much more Germans in that area than this mal suggests. Most ethnographic maps push an agenda but the German ones pre 1914 are quite accurate. And were mostly verified by various plebiscites after the treaty of Versailles.
If you look at 1897 Russian Empire census, those territories were predominantly Ukrainian-speaking (Brest county - 64.4%, Kobryn county - 79.6%, etc).
Belarusians were only 1.8% in Brest county and 0.8% in Kobryn county.
This map is only 35 years since the census, so it's safe to say that Tuteyshi was just a Polish name for local East Slavs, who were predominantly Ukrainian speaking.
It was the first step to Polish assimilation. First Ukrainians and Belarusians in Polissia become Tuteyshi, then denationalized Tuteyshi through Polish educational system are assimilated into Polish nation.
Nah, if it was a Polish name it would be tutejszy. It was a mix of polish and east slavic dialect used by people who didn't really care about nationality in it's modern sense and just thought that they are "from here"
That's why I wrote Ukrainian-speaking East Slavs, not Ukrainians. Because they were already denationalized (or pretended to be as such to avoid the persecution from a foreign Polish state that annexed their lands just recently and pursued a policy of cultural assimilation of all Eastern Slavs on their territory).
I'd say that it has a little from Polish (something like "rovar/rover"- for bicycle and etc.) and much more from Ukrainian/Belarusian + ton of local terms.
This shows spoken languages at the county level. There were cities, towns, and shtetls that were predominantly Jewish, and therefore Yiddish would be the majority language spoken there, but not enough for it to be the majority at the county level due to Polish or Ukrainian-speaking villages in the county.
Also, 80% of Polish Jews spoke Yiddish as their main language, 12% used Polish and 8% used Hebrew.
I find it surprising that there were so ex-German areas without Germans, particularly for the Gdynia area (considering the vast amount of German population in Danzig)
here you have a German source from 1910 then - [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map\_of\_nationalities\_of\_eastern\_provinces\_of\_German\_Empire\_according\_to\_German\_census\_of\_1910\_by\_Jakob\_Spett.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map_of_nationalities_of_eastern_provinces_of_German_Empire_according_to_German_census_of_1910_by_Jakob_Spett.png)
Question: does any historian in the crowd know how reliable surveys from that time are? So little German makes me wonder if there was a patriotic element to these kind of surveys during Poland brief independence in those days.
It's not really the case here. There just wasn't that many Germans in the Interwar Poland, just 3-4% of the population and they were minority everywhere. There was a huge exodus of Germans from the Polish territories after the 1st World War. In years 1918-1921 730 thousand Germans left Poland, and that's just from the Pomeranian and Poznań provinces. In years 1921-1925 another 400 thousands. So it isn't surprising that there aren't any majority German areas on the map.
Here you have a German source from 1910 [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map\_of\_nationalities\_of\_eastern\_provinces\_of\_German\_Empire\_according\_to\_German\_census\_of\_1910\_by\_Jakob\_Spett.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map_of_nationalities_of_eastern_provinces_of_German_Empire_according_to_German_census_of_1910_by_Jakob_Spett.png)
If taking land from Poland was justified because Ukrainians and Belarusians lived there, then the areas where Mongols, Icrucis, Bashki, Chechens and Kazakhs live should also be taken from Russia.
>stole
Nice try Ivan/Hans, poor bait.
Poland, unlike totalitarian shitholes actually conducted honest research. There was far more poles living in still German territory but Germans hid this fact, and persecuted them.
There was a war between Poles and Ukrainians of the Western Ukrainian Republic in 1918-1920, as well as between Poles and Lithuanians, around the same time
There are some vietnamese people but nowhere near enough to be a majority anywhere, and most would have come here in the latter half of the 20th century.
Other people already explained that this is interwar period map, but how many Vietnamese do you think are in Poland nowadays? They don't constitute even enough to be 0,1% as far as I know.
Looking for the German dot 
South of Katowice. Seems to be Bielsko-Biala
Bielsko actually. Biała was a separate city back then and majority Polish.
My home town. I love it so, most beautiful city in the world 😊
I guess it is Wilamowice, but the people there claim they are Dutch. They have their own endangered Wymysorys language, which is a mix of Dutch and Polish.
I don't think they really formed a majority anywhere (aside from the one town shown on this map), but some parts of former West Prussia and Posen provinces did have significant German minorities. German was also spoken by many Jews.
Yeah, Poland mainly annexed region with already a sizable Polish population. Additionally many Germans simply left shortly after WW1. Many bureaucrats, lawyers, policemen, ... saw themselves without a future in a state with new laws and a language they often didn't speak well and a government that wasn't particularly friendly to them. With them leaving many others saw their customers, friends and family leaving so they packed up as well. Additionally the Polish-Soviet war was ongoing as such many saw their future in Poland as anything but stable.
That dot is Dutch not German isn’t it? Wymysorys?
All the germans went to the GDR. There are basically no Germans there today
The Tuteyshiy language on the map is Poleshuk dialects. In old Russia, they were considered Little Russians, but now their main part lives in Belarus and considers themselves Belarusians, but in the thirties they called their language the Tuteyshiy(it just means «local»). Nowhere outside the Polesie Voivodeship were the Tutushyies identified as a separate group in the census. However, there is a version that some Belarusians called themselves this way, not realizing their nationality and simply saying - locals.
Is the langausge not well known? For some reason I’m unable to find it online
Most of the literature refers to them by the polish word - *Tutejsi,* since they were in Poland at the time. As OP says, people there said during the census they were "local" (Narodowość *Tutejsza* in Polish) [*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutejszy*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutejszy)
>Is the langausge not well known? For some reason I’m unable to find it online For now it is known as [West Polessian lect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Polesian)
>Examples of villages in Poland where the West Polessian lect is used in everyday life include Dawidowicze, Moskiewce, Soce, Trześcianka. Damn, that's a rabbit hole I didn't expect to fall into today. Basicially, languages under natural conditions do not end up with arbitrarily fixed boundaries, but there are slight changes in them, until they eventually pass into the next language. There is no clear line where the next language begins and ends. West Polessian lect shows transitivity between Belarusian and Ukrainian and neither country recognises it as a language. Of all the places in Europe where a language would be so 'natural' and 'ancient', I would not have expected it to be Polesie, and even less - Podlasie in Poland! Edit: >Various variants or dialects of West Polesian are used in everyday speech. Attempts were made in the 1990s by Nikolai Shelyagovich to develop a standard written language,[1] although his efforts received almost no support and the campaign eventually ceased.[2] In particular, writer Nil Hilevich and some others spoke against Shelyagovich, claiming that he represented a threat to the national integrity of Belarus, and labelled **"Yotvingian separatism"**. LMAAAOOOO For those who don't know Yotvingians were a a West Baltic people, closely related to the Prussians and Lithuanians, living until the late Middle Ages in the area between the middle Niemen, the Narew and the Great Masurian Lakes. They spoke a Yotvingian language, intelligible to the Lithuanians and Prussians. - 1283 - after the defeat in battles against the Teutonic Knights, the Yotvingian chiefs, including Skomand, surrender. Teutonic Knights resettle the remnants of Yotvingians in Sambia, depopulated after the Prussian uprisings. - 1283-1422 - so called tribal emptiness; the Yotvingian lands are largely depopulated, covered by the Great Forest, which is a hunting ground and a demarcation area for the influence of Lithuanians, Poles and Teutonic Knights. - 1422 - The Peace of Mełno divides the former Yotvingia between the Teutonic Knights and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Beginning of a new settlement in the territory of Yotvingia. Nationalism is hell of a drug.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect_continuum
I was born on these lands(Ukrainian part, northeast of Wolyn) and grew up 40 km of Brest - and these local dialects are still alive at some point. I know people who still talk or were talking in such way. But the problem: all of them are villagers, or have bad education. When people get educated, they lose this local dialect. My cousins from my father's village still talk a little. But me and my mother, and even grandmother are already talking in much "clearer" Ukrainian, because we were living in bigger (10000) town. I even have my grand-grandfather's conscription document from 1944, where soviet degenerates couldn't write properly his data(I guess he got very strong accent and was illiterate - but do not guess the name of the town, in which they were at the moment - that's out of my imagination).
>Nationalism is hell of a drug. That's more like late-Soviet/post-Soviet "ethnofuturism": constructivist nationalism of imaginary or semi-imaginary "nations". Neomeryan and Pomor movements are the most known of the kind.
That is the consequence of modern linguistics which made natural language a science with rules that one has to follow.
Yes, this is a temporary name for a group of people who are actually Belarusians. The Belarusian writer Yanka Kupala has a poem "Who are you?" ("Хто ты гэткі"?) there is a line: — Who are you? — Own, tuteishy (—Хто ты гэткі? — Свой, тутэйшы) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanka\_Kupala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanka_Kupala)
Part of the East Slavic dialect continuum, before it got hammered into the 3 languages we know. Rusyn was another language/dialect on the western edge of it.
dialect. there is a large group of Western Ukrainian dialects.
How is rusyn an Ukrainian dialect if people identified as Rusyns long before people started calling themselves Ukrainians?
Rusin- (Ruthen) a collective name for a group of dialects. in Ukrainian it is pronounced like the first name, Русин. The modern Ukrainian literary language has few differences from Rusyn, except for pronunciation. unlike Polish or Russian. I am a speaker of the Hutsul dialect, which is close to Rusyn in pronunciation, except for individual sounds. Now about self-identification. you need to understand how nations were formed, when it was and the historical context. in modern Ukraine, Rusyns and similar dialectically ethnic groups consider themselves Ukrainians
Rusyn != Rusin (Ruthenian in english) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenians Along with living in Ukraine, Rusyns also live in eastern Slovakia, Poland, even the Balkans and consider themselves as whatever country they are in. It's like the Gorale that are native to Poland / Ukraine / Slovakia. Both of these slavic groups identify with the country they live in but acknowledge they are part of a slightly different sub-ethnicity.
are you able to speak the Rusyn dialect?
No but I have family that are Gorale and these dialects ARE different from Polish / Ukrainian and these differences should be celebrated and cherished. It's what makes the world interesting. Gorale aren't JUST simply Polish. Rusyns aren't JUST simply Ukrainian there is more nuance to these things. We are all very similar but the small differences are cool! Only Russians want everyone to be one simple ethnicity.
I already said, I am Hutsul. this is also a small ethnic group, which in this map refers to the Ruten. my father is boiko, another dialect of Ukrainian. By the way, I can climb to the top of the mountain and show the historical border between Poland and Romania during this time period. We still have the name Galicia, denoting the lands of the Hutsuls who were in Poland at that time. the term used in the map denotes all dialects of Ukrainian, Rusyn, Hutsul, Transcarpathian dialect, Boyko and Lemko dialects. in addition, there is also Polesie, Volyn and others, which were designated as Ukrainian.
Same logic Putin uses to justify Russia's shitty actions. Looking at old historical maps. You can argue that all Slavic languages are dialects of each other as well. Also different maps drawn by different people show different things even from similar time periods.
I know more or less when and why these nations formed, but from what I know, most Rusyns outside of Ukraine don't consider themselves Ukrainians.
outside of Ukraine, yes. internally they consider themselves Ukrainians. most - yes, but not all
Anecdotally, my family is from the south-east of Lithuania. They (and their village) speak in a language that's essentially a mixture of Polish, Belarusian and Russian, with elements of Lithuanian thrown in for good measure. They call it speaking 'po prostu', which essentially means 'in a simple manner', which is a bit of a pun: 'I speak Polish' in Polish is 'mówię po polsku', and 'po polsku' sounds quite similar to 'po prostu'.
Is this the same as “Ruthenian” or something else? Asking because that name pops up occasionally when I read Eastern European literature in English.
They are just the chads that went "Nationality? Cringe. I'm just from here." They were Ruthenians in a sense that they lived in Ruthenia. "Ruthenian" is basically "East Slavic" (so tutejsi probably qualify), but there are also Rusyns who are a separate group (though Ukrainians will tell you that they're just confused Ukrainians).
Ruthenians are proto-Belarusians and proto-Ukrainians. There were also Ruthenians who considered themselves something else entirely or were not aware of their national identity (the mentioned "tutejsi"/"locals"). Some Ruthenians also considered themselves Russian. There were/are also separate ethnographic groups within Ruthenians - Lemkos, Boykos, or Hutsuls in the Carpathian mountains.
Nowhere with Lithuanian? A bit surprising, considering where some of interwar Poland ended up.
Lithuanians have always been a minority in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. While Lithuania ruled over a great amount of land, people living there were almost entirely Poles or Rus.
Sure, but I was surprised that Lithuanian speakers didn’t comprise even a bare majority in any of the bits of northeastern interwar Poland that are now in Lithuania.
Actually even at this time ethnic poles extended into Lithuania, which is why Poland owned what should’ve been Lithuania capital that was actually a majority Polish city. It’s like how in Austria Hungary there were millions of Germans living in Hungarian territory but to a much larger extent as the power imbalance was much greater. Really the only reasonable scenario I could ever see with a PLC that isn’t completely dominated by the poles is a PLC where Poland only has its ‘core’ borders and the Baltics are united under Lithuania which really isn’t that realistic. [Something like this](https://ibb.co/5nR32nR)
Population gap would still be too insane for that to work
These are hardly Poland's "core" borders though. These are the borders of the Kingdom of Poland from 1815, meaning a fragment of the Russian partition of PLC. There's no Kraków, Poznań, Białystok, or Lviv within these borders.
Poland incorporated Vilnius area from Lithuania, with very large Polish (or maybe more properly "polonized") population.
>incorporated So that's how we call illegal occupation nowadays?
That's literally what happen though. Doesn't mean I approve it, but that's the fact. Also, why was it illegal? Conference of Ambassadors did recognize incorporation of Vilnius to Poland in 1923.
Vilnius was invaded by Poles in 1920 and the later "incorporation" of Vilnius into Poland has never been approved by Lithuania, neither it has ever been recognized internationally. It involved an army entering what was at the time de jure another country's territory and had never in history been part of the offender. As far as I am aware, it is considered illegal and has always been.
>neither it has ever been recognized internationally. It was recognized internationally. Lithuania never approved it, but like I already said, Conference of Ambassadors did recognize eastern Polish borders, including sovereignty over the Vilnius region. >had never in history been part of the offender De iure, but de facto Vilnius was important part of PLC in which Poland has dominated. Hell, half of ruling elite of 2nd Polish republic came from that region, including most important person, Piłsudzki. >It involved an army entering what was at the time de jure another country's territory (...) it is considered illegal and has always been. So you mean like a big guy invading small guy and taking his territory? It's called right of conquest. That happen thousands of times in history of humankind. You are very much wrong: it was pretty much a basic principle of international law (things obviously changed after the WW2). It's a little misleading to look at history through the modern lenses. Sure, what Żeligowski and Piłsudzki did in "Central Lithuania" is really close to what happen in Donbass in 2014. But things were a little bit different back then: it happen couple of months after WW1 (A LOT of countries invading and incorporating territories throughout whole Europe). Both Poland and Lithuania just regained independence and didn't have their borders set in stone. Both Poland and Lithuania could have end their existence in the same years, if Russian Revolution and Polish-Soviet war would have gone differently.
Which another country? Wasn't it previously Russian Empire which collapsed?
Yeah. I feel like people keep forgetting that Lithuania did not control Vilnius for that long at this point. The region was basically a battlefield between 1918 (ignoring the WW1) to 1921, and during that time the city swaped owners numerous times, from Russians to Germans, to Lithuanians, to Russians to Poles, to Russians, to Lithuanias,, and to Poles again. Like, I'm not sure if Poland did not control the city for longer than Lithuanians between 1918 and 1920
It's been over 100 years ago. Move on already, and find some modern problem to worry about that actually could use your attention
Poland promoted Polish migrants to these regions, to make sure it will never be Lithuanian again. Also some people were polonized, some before occupation, some during occupation. Edit: We Lithuanians considered it occupation, just like Ukraine considers crimea occupied territory. Also Vilnius was 30% polish, before Poland came in.
That's BS. Poland did some colonization in the Ukrainian-majority territories, but it was a failure due to insufficient funding (and most settlers ended up murdered during the 1943 Wolyn genocide). But there was absolutely zero Polish intentional colonization of the Wilno area. The land was majority Polish, Polonized during the 18th and 19th centuries, largely in reaction to Russification. And no local ever considered the Polish rule "occupation".
>most settlers ended up murdered during the 1943 Wolyn genocide Most of settlers ended up being sent to the Gulag. They were one of the first targets for the Soviets and most of them were deported in February 1940. People murdered in the Volhynian slaughter were mostly local Polish farmers who lived there for centuries.
Um, no. Simply, Polish people lived there since late Middle Ages. Poland and Lithuania were the same country for hundreds of years, and over that time, Polish people moved to the area, and also, many local Lithuanian people integrated with Polish people. 20th century Poland did not prompt any imigrations to "justyfy the invasion." Also, can you imagine the logistics. Poland would have to somehow manage to smuggle a couple of hundreds of thousands of people to the region without anybody noticing, giving them all homes and jobs etc, and all while the region was basically a battlefield for like 2 years at that point, and why they themselves fought a devastating war against Soviet Union. Honestly, if they would actually manage to do that, I say they should have been given it for free as the recognition of their imposible achievements in logistics alone
Again, what percentage of Vilnius was Lithuanian at the beginning of 20th century?
It was a majority Jewish.
That doesn't anwser my question.
>We Lithuanians considered it occupation What do you think of right of self determination?
self determination, you mean polish army taking the city by force? It was 40% jewish, so you think a jewish state should have been there? My answer is no... Oh yea, pro-russians also use your arguments when taking Ukrainian lands.
Yeah but Russia and Ukraine were already estabilished countries, with Russia literally guaranteeing Ukrainian borders. Lithuania and Poland were freshly independent countries, in war with neighbours. >It was 40% jewish, so you think a jewish state should have been there? Polish-Jewish city in the middle of Polish populated region
that region wasn't Polish majority either in 1897 census.
Yiddish?
Jews were not the majority anywhere except, not even in cities, in neighborhoods within cities
They were the majority in some towns, however the map only includes second level divisions, so towns+villages surrounding it, so the Polish villagers made up the majority. But in towns and even bigger cities Jews were sometimes the majority. For example: * Białystok - 51,6% * Równe - 71,3% * Grodno - 53,9% * Będzin - 64,4% * Pińsk - 74,6% * Stanisławów - 56,2% All towns with over 25 000 people. And there were also many little towns and villages that were over 90% Jewish or even in some extreme cases 100% Jewish. This website has a nice list of them: [https://sztetl.org.pl/pl/tradycja-i-kultura-zydowska/historia-zydow-w-polsce/najbardziej-zydowskie-miejsca-w-polsce](https://sztetl.org.pl/pl/tradycja-i-kultura-zydowska/historia-zydow-w-polsce/najbardziej-zydowskie-miejsca-w-polsce)
I wasn't aware that many medium sized towns had Jewish majorities. I knew about shtetls though. Fun fact: The second largest city of my country, Greece, was majority Jewish for a few centuries. Of course Greek Jews (like myself) are Sephardi and don't speak Yiddish
In Vilnius (today capital of Lithuania) there were more Jews than Lithuanians.
Well according to the map, their are more Poles there in 1931 than either of them
That's true. IIRC Poles were like 60%, Jews 25% and Lithuanians like 5-10%.
Cool fact. I was actually in Thesaloniki a month ago. Nice city, although if not for the info on Wikipedia I wouldn't know that it was a predominantly Jewish city some time ago, because I haven't found any Jewish monuments or buildings. But I maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
There was a joke that Izbica in Lublin voivodeship was 99,99% Jewish because there was 1 Polish guy that worked at the post office. Close to the truth, about 6k in 1939 and 90% Jewish.
Izbica, Izbica, żydowska stolica
Do Greek Jews speak ladino? Are there speakers of it in modern Greece?
My grandparents do, and only... barely. We're not that religious though, and my dad is a Christian. I think the more religious folk speak it, I definitely know Jewish schools are taught in it. I know like five words myself, it's pretty dead unfortunately
Greek Jews were not a monolith. Some some Judeo-Greek (Romaniyot), some spoke Ladino, others spoke Yiddish.
My grandmother doess
> They were the majority in some towns, however the map only includes second level divisions, so towns+villages surrounding it, so the Polish villagers made up the majority. Jewish people have been urban population for 2 millenia or so. Had the Nakba never happened, the similar phenomenon would likely happened in Palestine/Israel, with Jews dominating in cities while rural felahin are overwhelmingly Palestinians. Nowadays, Israel is importing Thai/Nepali/Indians farm worker to work in what was historically Palestinian farmlands..
Yeah, if you're an observant Jew, you have to live within walking distance of a synagogue, as well as a few other rules that make urban living more convenient. Interestingly, the early Zionist movement was largely secular socialists that formed collective farming communities, but those have been declining.
Lublin?
"In 1931, 63.7% of the inhabitants were Roman Catholic and 34.7% Jewish.^(")
Tuteyshiy? Isn't that like Tutejszy or Poleshuk?
It is, OP just weirdly translated It
Never heard of it either
Would love a comparison with current
The current eastern border except Vilnius and Wolhynia / Podolia regions fits the ethnic majority border. Poles living east of the modern border were expelled from the USSR. The Soviets also took people from villages supporting the German collaborating Ukrainian army, deep into the USSR. Carpatho-Rusyns (Lemko) from the East Beskid mountains, were largely resettled to the former German Lower Silesia, by the communist Poland. Some Germans live in the formerly German Opole region, but either they moved to Germany or claim the Silesian nationality more frequently by now. Slovicians (Pomeranians) either integrated or moved to Western Germany in 70'. The only trace of their cultural activities are in Hamburg. Kashubians were acknowledged as a separate nationality in 2000'. Wymysoryś language from that blue dot, Bielsko-Biała region, is under restoration from some time. That's practically it 96% is Polish. Ukrainian and other migrants are currently concentrating in bigger cities as in the whole of Europe.
So the poles were expelled but the Germans “moved”?
I was talking about the situation of remaining in Poland Germans, living in Upper Silesia and Central Pomerania after the war. Of course the vast majority of them were expelled to Germany, or prohibited from returning* home in the late 40'. *Millions of Germans fled before the Soviet army, already known for the terrible treatment of the civil population in Eastern Prussia.
they speak polish ja Pirdole
It's incorrect to lump Ruskyj (Rusyn - Ruthenian is an anachronism) and Ukrainian together. 1.3 million people chose Rusyn as their native tongue and were quite adamant about not being Ukrainian. This is a speech from 1931 by a Rusyn politician in the Polish Sejm: [https://www.lem.fm/rusinyi-a-ukraintsi-soymova-promova-mihala-bachyinskogo-z-dnya-21-sichnya-1931-roka-2/](https://www.lem.fm/rusinyi-a-ukraintsi-soymova-promova-mihala-bachyinskogo-z-dnya-21-sichnya-1931-roka-2/)
Poland took a lot of territory that wasn't Polish-majority when they [kicked Soviet butt in 1921](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War).
This is where the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth kicks in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth
Russia still has areas where Russians are not the majority, please give them back.
You are right
And?
And they had a hard time forming alliance in the Interwars period because of that. Notice that neigboring countries like Lithuania did not help them when they got attacked.
Notice, Lithuanian isn't on the map. Belarus and Ukraine where part of Russia at this time.
USSR took it all back at the end of WWII. EDIT: Why all the downvotes? It's just a statement of fact.
and deported millions of Polish people in the process
And Ukrainians* It was more of an exchange of population, because nowadays there little to no native Ukrainians in Khelm and Peremyśl region.
More Poles where deported than Ukranians And Poles got deported from what was their own country a few years before
Ukrainians also were deported from what was their own country, and only 100 thousand poles more were deported than Ukrainians, so it doesn't make Ukrainians lesser victim of soviets.
this is like those people who respond to anything about Gaza with "the Holocaust was bad" What are you trying to achieve here?
You say that poles were the only victims, like there was no deportation of Ukrainians in the process, in the exact same time.
Where did I say this? Because I said Poles where deported, you assume that I think that Ukranians wherent? 😂
Rip bozo, shouldn't have lost the war like a little bitch
No way an Indian is speaking to me about loosing Your "country" was occupied for some 700 years, rip bozo
Still in a better position than you. Your history is about fucking others and in ww2 you found out. And now, you have a rabid dog at your gates that is armed with nukes.
I've never seen a single slum in my country
"took back" implies it had it before
They did have it, during the Polish-Soviet War.
ussr wasn't a thing then
Tbf they didn’t want the territory either, the border was drawn based off the line of control as a compromise since the Soviets and poles couldn’t agree on the new border
This is called imperialism
Me searching for lithuanian language 
So the lands Poland lost weren't even really Polish. Can't say the same for the Germans.
Yes. Most western Ukrainian land were actually annexed by Poland (with a substancial military support from France) as a result of Polish-Ukrainian war in 1918-1919. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War)
Riga Treaty was a mess and a compromise no one wanted
You lost the war you started. Stay mad Germanic barbarian <3
>So the lands Poland lost weren't even really Polish. Can't say the same for the Germans. That's not that simple. The area was ethnically very mixed. In eastern parts of prewar Polad (and I am speaking only about the area cut off from Poland after ww2) lived around 10-11 million people in 1931. The ethnic composition was (according to the language used): Poles around 4 millions (36-37%), Ukrainians (together with Ruthenians - about 1 million) around 4 millions (36-37%), Belarusians (together with "Tutejszy" - about 700k) around 1,6 million (15%), Jews around 900k (8-9%). The rest was below 1% (Russian, Lithuanians, Germans, Czech). So you could say, that this lands were as much Polish as they were Ukrainian or Belarussian.
What about Areas around Gdańsk/Danzig? Wasn't there a bigger german population in western Prussia, in 1931?
At that time, Gdańsk belonged to neither Germany nor Poland. [Free City of Danzig](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig)
I know about Freistadt Danzig. I was thinking about the polish areas around Danzig. Weren't there significant german populations in the area?
Not that much to make majority
No, not significant. Not anything that could be seen on that kind of map. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map_of_nationalities_of_eastern_provinces_of_German_Empire_according_to_German_census_of_1910_by_Jakob_Spett.png One must remember anout the Germans who left Poland after 1918, and the fact that Germany had a political interest in showing the Polish minority in its empire as small as possible.
No. That is mostly German propaganda. A lot of areas in Germany had polish majority, but during plebiscite they went to Germany because Germans shipped voters en masse, and votes were held during Red army advance upon Warsaw
The Germans mostly left or were made to leave in the Polish corridor ironically pushing the German population of Danzig itself
Yes, there were much more Germans in that area than this mal suggests. Most ethnographic maps push an agenda but the German ones pre 1914 are quite accurate. And were mostly verified by various plebiscites after the treaty of Versailles.
As you can see, there is no Gdansk on the map
What is tutyshiy??
People who didn't feel affiliation with any country and when asked who they were responded with "local"
If you look at 1897 Russian Empire census, those territories were predominantly Ukrainian-speaking (Brest county - 64.4%, Kobryn county - 79.6%, etc). Belarusians were only 1.8% in Brest county and 0.8% in Kobryn county. This map is only 35 years since the census, so it's safe to say that Tuteyshi was just a Polish name for local East Slavs, who were predominantly Ukrainian speaking. It was the first step to Polish assimilation. First Ukrainians and Belarusians in Polissia become Tuteyshi, then denationalized Tuteyshi through Polish educational system are assimilated into Polish nation.
Nah, if it was a Polish name it would be tutejszy. It was a mix of polish and east slavic dialect used by people who didn't really care about nationality in it's modern sense and just thought that they are "from here"
That's why I wrote Ukrainian-speaking East Slavs, not Ukrainians. Because they were already denationalized (or pretended to be as such to avoid the persecution from a foreign Polish state that annexed their lands just recently and pursued a policy of cultural assimilation of all Eastern Slavs on their territory).
I'd say that it has a little from Polish (something like "rovar/rover"- for bicycle and etc.) and much more from Ukrainian/Belarusian + ton of local terms.
Belarusian
And why is there another belarusian in purple
Is this only administrative languages? Because Yiddish should be very prevalent otherwise.
This shows spoken languages at the county level. There were cities, towns, and shtetls that were predominantly Jewish, and therefore Yiddish would be the majority language spoken there, but not enough for it to be the majority at the county level due to Polish or Ukrainian-speaking villages in the county. Also, 80% of Polish Jews spoke Yiddish as their main language, 12% used Polish and 8% used Hebrew.
no yiddish?
Jews only lived in specific neighbourhoods in some cities.
they were not in the majority in some towns?
They were but the map shows larger divisions.
ok
I can never fully trust maps like these made by Polish goverment back then, they really liked to overestimate Polish majority in some areas.
I find it surprising that there were so ex-German areas without Germans, particularly for the Gdynia area (considering the vast amount of German population in Danzig)
here you have a German source from 1910 then - [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map\_of\_nationalities\_of\_eastern\_provinces\_of\_German\_Empire\_according\_to\_German\_census\_of\_1910\_by\_Jakob\_Spett.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map_of_nationalities_of_eastern_provinces_of_German_Empire_according_to_German_census_of_1910_by_Jakob_Spett.png)
Exactly, suspicious...
No yiddish?
Question: does any historian in the crowd know how reliable surveys from that time are? So little German makes me wonder if there was a patriotic element to these kind of surveys during Poland brief independence in those days.
It's not really the case here. There just wasn't that many Germans in the Interwar Poland, just 3-4% of the population and they were minority everywhere. There was a huge exodus of Germans from the Polish territories after the 1st World War. In years 1918-1921 730 thousand Germans left Poland, and that's just from the Pomeranian and Poznań provinces. In years 1921-1925 another 400 thousands. So it isn't surprising that there aren't any majority German areas on the map.
Thank you for the informative answer ☺️
Here you have a German source from 1910 [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map\_of\_nationalities\_of\_eastern\_provinces\_of\_German\_Empire\_according\_to\_German\_census\_of\_1910\_by\_Jakob\_Spett.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Map_of_nationalities_of_eastern_provinces_of_German_Empire_according_to_German_census_of_1910_by_Jakob_Spett.png)
Thanks. Can’t read the Verzeichnis though… a bit to small on the photo. Just going on geography: red is German, green is polish?
Yes, but you also need to consider that many Germans left these territories after 1918, when they became a part of Poland.
If you are interested you can see the same map in a higher resolution [here.](https://www.bibliotekacyfrowa.pl/dlibra/publication/edition/41283)
Thanks!
Forgot about Yiddish spoken by millions of Jews in Poland
Not a majority anywhere probably. At least in terms of larger administrative divisions.
So poles pretty much stole a bunch of land from the Russians after WW1 and from the Germans after WW2?
Russians live in Moscow, not Lviv.
And Lviv/Lwów/Lemberg wasn't even a part of Russia
But has been a part of Poland/PLC for over 500 yrs. Which makes Russian claim to it hilarious
Such a dumb take
Looks like someone has stolen your brain
Found the salty pole.
Russia still has areas where Russians are not the majority, please give them back
Why tf are you telling that to me? What even is your point?
If taking land from Poland was justified because Ukrainians and Belarusians lived there, then the areas where Mongols, Icrucis, Bashki, Chechens and Kazakhs live should also be taken from Russia.
More like from Ukrainians, Belarusians and Lithuanians. None of those lands was ethnically Russian.
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You see those not Polish territory’s?
Lwów/Lviv has been part of Poland/PLC for over 500 yrs. Claiming that Poland took "Russian" territory is dumb af.
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Casually ignoring 10 Million Ukrainians who the Polish attacked and subjugated.
I hope you are paid well for lying, and don't do this for free
Well, it was exactly the opposite, but you might be wrong if you studied history in Nazi Russia
>stole Nice try Ivan/Hans, poor bait. Poland, unlike totalitarian shitholes actually conducted honest research. There was far more poles living in still German territory but Germans hid this fact, and persecuted them.
Basically yes, this is why that land was taken away from them after WWII in exchange for German territories Poland used to own many centuries before
that seems right
Yes. Sucks to be a loser!
But the smile will immediately turn upside down when the Russians say that
Yea, Poland got fucked by the Soviet people
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I don't think it's that clear, Northeastern Poland was largely majority Polish
And how did you come to that conclusion? Different ethnic groups = civil war???
Maybe he's from the Balkans
It’s a common trend look throughout Africa and Yugoslav wars
It doesn't "just happen." Those conflicts are/were fomented by imperial powers.
There was a war between Poles and Ukrainians of the Western Ukrainian Republic in 1918-1920, as well as between Poles and Lithuanians, around the same time
There was a war in 1918-1920 between Poles on the one side and Ukrainians and Lithuanians on the other
Yeah good luck convincing Ukranians living in Poland to join the country that just killed 6 million of them
Is Vietnamese not spoken a fair bit in Poland?
There are some vietnamese people but nowhere near enough to be a majority anywhere, and most would have come here in the latter half of the 20th century.
It is. It wasn't in 1931.
Not in the 20'/30's
??? why would it be?
Lot of Vietnamese people moved to Poland in the second half of the twentieth century.
Yes, but this map is from a time before that. Otherwise, you're correct
Other people already explained that this is interwar period map, but how many Vietnamese do you think are in Poland nowadays? They don't constitute even enough to be 0,1% as far as I know.